Best Wordpress Theme Ever, Semiologic or Thesis?

114 replies
Hi,

I'm building a blog network and I'm looking for the perfect theme.
Many recommend Semiologic or Thesis.

Best Blogging Software

Thesis Theme for WordPress

Which do you think is better?
Why?


Thanks for your feedback,
Ralf
#semiologic #theme #thesis #wordpress
  • Profile picture of the author Jillian Slack
    Hi Ralf,

    Thesis is a great theme. Their main site has a "showcase" section, which you've probably already taken a look at since you've boiled the choice down to two.

    Never heard of Semiologic, but when I clicked on your link it went to a sales page rather than something substantial to show us what it can do. Can't really see what this theme is capable of by their sales page and I don't see any links to see the theme in action.

    Care to share?

    OK -- I just took the time to copy-and-paste the URLs from the testimonials on that sales page to see if those sites were done with Semiologic.

    I'm still partial to Thesis or the Studio Press themes by Brian Gardner, but that's just my opinion.

    Jill
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    • Profile picture of the author markament
      I've used both and what I have to say is that Thesis totally rocks. It's amazing when it comes to the search engines. In fact it was so much better than anything else I've ever used, that I converted all my sites to run on it. I recommend buying a developers license which gives you unlimited uses of the program.

      By the way, they also have an AWESOME support forum. Some really great tech people hang out there.
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  • Profile picture of the author LB
    Thesis by far.

    Semiologic was good a few years back...now I just find it clunky.

    Not that semio is bad, but WP has come so far since it first came around.
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  • Profile picture of the author thatgirlJ
    WP Flex is definitely my choice... (I know it wasn't one of the options ) It's amazing how flexible the theme is to be whatever you want it to be.

    I used to use Semiologic, but agree with LB that it's a bit outdated.
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Molano
    Semiologic hands down for SEO.

    Now, if you want a "pretty" theme, it might not be a good choice.

    Flex would probably be better in that case.

    Why Sem Pro for SEO? Simple, Denis used to be a search engine algorithm developer, the guy knows what he is doing. Sem Reloaded is coming out soon.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ralf Skirr
      Thanks for your feedback so far. So we have 2 votes for thesis, 1 for semiologic.

      I'll be checking out the flex theme, the site seems to be:
      http://wp-flex.com/

      SEO by the way is VERY important to me.
      Would be cool to learn more about sem reloaded.

      Ralf
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      • Profile picture of the author Daniel Molano
        Originally Posted by Ralf Skirr View Post

        SEO by the way is VERY important to me.
        Would be cool to learn more about sem reloaded.

        Ralf
        Ralf, Sem Reloaded is in alpha stage. The bleeding edge version is available to Sem Pro customers I believe.

        The Semiologic.com site is currently using that theme. It's looking pretty good.
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    • Profile picture of the author thatgirlJ
      Originally Posted by Daniel Molano View Post


      Why Sem Pro for SEO? Simple, Denis used to be a search engine algorithm developer, the guy knows what he is doing. Sem Reloaded is coming out soon.
      That's good to know! Something to keep our eyes on
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  • Profile picture of the author TheRealDomainer
    I use flex and give it to flex
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  • Profile picture of the author Lindsay Brynn
    I am also a happy WP Flex user.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ralf Skirr
      I checked the flex page and it either:
      - gives very little information or
      - actually has very few features compared to the other 2

      From reading the sales letters semiologic and thesis seem more advanced.

      I'd be interested in any information on how thesis and semiologic handle SEO.

      Ralf
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  • Profile picture of the author nick1123
    I really like the thesis theme for WordPress. It seems to do a pretty good job for search engine optimization. But putting the title of you are posts in the title tags. I also love how it's very extensible.
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  • Semiologic is an eyesore. Thesis is good. Actually there are about a dozen designers that are making some great stuff. Themes like One Theme that most people have not heard of... Gorilla Themes, Gabfire, etc. The themes you mention get a lot of press because they have been around awhile... but there are a lot of really good themes in existence, they are just hard to find sometimes.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ralf Skirr
      Originally Posted by internetmarketingiq View Post

      Actually there are about a dozen designers that are making some great stuff. Themes like One Theme that most people have not heard of... Gorilla Themes, Gabfire, etc. The themes you mention get a lot of press because they have been around awhile... but there are a lot of really good themes in existence, they are just hard to find sometimes.
      I know there are many great designs. The reasons why I mentioned semiologic and thesis:
      - They are both known for good SEO
      - They have a history of updates that adjust the theme to the current wordpress versions

      For my main blog I shelled out 200 bucks or so for a theme from a designer who - as it turns out later - does not do much to update it and adopt it to the new wordpress versions. I'm totally NOT happy about this.

      This is why a reliable history of updating the theme will be one of my main buying criteria.

      Given how fast wordpress changes having a great looking theme isn't enough. It's absolutely necessary that the theme is under continued development.

      Ralf
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      • Profile picture of the author mistyone
        Originally Posted by Ralf Skirr View Post

        I know there are many great designs. The reasons why I mentioned semiologic and thesis:
        - They are both known for good SEO
        - They have a history of updates that adjust the theme to the current wordpress versions
        I have a site Faster Internet Speed | Internet Speed Check | Free Internet Speed Software and Instructions Show How To Speed Up Your Internet Connection. that I purchased over a year ago that has this Semiologic theme version loaded:
        Semiologic 4.3.7 by Denis de Bernardy

        and I have never been aware of any theme update but maybe that is because the person who developed the site and sold it to me is the person who purchased the theme and would be getting the upadate notices. There doesn't seem to anything that says to go and update it either. But in it's defence, I must say that it doesn't cause any trouble, it is definitely more complicated that the plain old Kubrick Wordpress version

        So I guess you could say Semiologic gets the thumbs up from me

        Cheers
        Viv
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        • Profile picture of the author Daniel Molano
          Originally Posted by mistyone View Post

          I have a site Faster Internet Speed | Internet Speed Check | Free Internet Speed Software and Instructions Show How To Speed Up Your Internet Connection. that I purchased over a year ago that has this Semiologic theme version loaded:
          Semiologic 4.3.7 by Denis de Bernardy

          and I have never been aware of any theme update but maybe that is because the person who developed the site and sold it to me is the person who purchased the theme and would be getting the upadate notices. There doesn't seem to anything that says to go and update it either. But in it's defence, I must say that it doesn't cause any trouble, it is definitely more complicated that the plain old Kubrick Wordpress version

          So I guess you could say Semiologic gets the thumbs up from me

          Cheers
          Viv
          Viv, you should head to Semiologic.com and update that, the theme is currently in version 5.7.1.
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      • Profile picture of the author lalit.burma
        Originally Posted by Ralf Skirr View Post

        I know there are many great designs. The reasons why I mentioned semiologic and thesis:
        - They are both known for good SEO
        - They have a history of updates that adjust the theme to the current wordpress versions

        For my main blog I shelled out 200 bucks or so for a theme from a designer who - as it turns out later - does not do much to update it and adopt it to the new wordpress versions. I'm totally NOT happy about this.

        This is why a reliable history of updating the theme will be one of my main buying criteria.

        Given how fast wordpress changes having a great looking theme isn't enough. It's absolutely necessary that the theme is under continued development.

        Ralf
        Quite agree with you. There is no point to pay $200 for any theme if they are not going to update themselves and their themes according to current wordpress.

        Because ultimately its wordpress which matter the most.

        I near future I am going for thesis only.
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  • Profile picture of the author patJ
    Elegant Themes - Theme Gallery - have great themes.
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  • Profile picture of the author LB
    I don't think any of these options are bad.

    I like Thesis because it is very flexible and there are a LOT of big sites using it. They have a great private support forum as well.

    Some of these less popular products may go out of production or be slow to upgrade when WP is updated.

    What happens when there is a vulnerability in WP but your theme isn't compatible with the new version? Either you risk getting compromised or you're forced to another theme anyway....something to think about.
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  • Profile picture of the author cashcow
    I've used them both and I like them both, but I think the Thesis theme looks better and is easier to use.
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  • Profile picture of the author InternetM39482
    I've not used Semiologic so am not commenting on it.

    But, I love Thesis. It's got so many functions & is one hell of a theme, a very good investment.

    My vote goes for Thesis.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ron Kerr
    Semiologic was very good but went through a lot of problems with a potential sale of the business and the wheels really seemed to fall off. I could not justify renewing after that experience although it does seem to be getting back on track now.
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    • Profile picture of the author kmg
      Hi Ralf

      If you watch some of the videos at WP Flex WordPress theme | WP Queen you'll see why those of us who use WP Flex really love it's versatility.

      Hope that helps.
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    • Profile picture of the author tuxonio
      Hey guys how is it going?...

      I am relatively new to WP and find the system ideal for internet marketing I think there are pros and cons on the themes that you are mentioning above Flex...is very flexible and seems to be very easy to handle and customize, but probably lacks the potential of the others...I find thesis very slick and for what I could check out rich in optimizing content, but strangely enough did not find any video showing the features, so i donĀ“t know how it really works, or probably I missed it,....semiologic seems to be dense in its probable-looks but as Daniel puts it seems to be very compatible with SEO...probably all are...

      I am using Elegant Themes and the designs are fantastic but I am finding them difficult to customized, does anyone know any tutorials concerning these themes?,... and definitely not as friendly as Flex...what I am trying to say is that all themes could be adapted to your needs and they should be used depending in what you want out of them...

      Take care everybody!!
      Best
      Arturo
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    • Profile picture of the author Lance K
      Originally Posted by Ron Kerr View Post

      Semiologic was very good but went through a lot of problems with a potential sale of the business and the wheels really seemed to fall off. I could not justify renewing after that experience although it does seem to be getting back on track now.
      Denis is back in charge now.
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  • Profile picture of the author SteveJohnson
    One point in favor of Thesis is that it doesn't touch core WordPress code; Semio (at least the last version I saw) did. To me, that's a terrible no-no. It leaves you at the mercy of a private developer, and one that has had some recent troubles at that. I wouldn't touch SemioLogic now with a 10 ft. pole.

    I liked Thesis when it was first released. Chris Pearson has done a phenomenal job on it. That said, I think he has gone too far and made the theme much more complicated than it needs to be, it is especially difficult for the average blog owner to customize. I know he's trying to create a 'framework', but the damn thing is almost as complicated as WordPress itself.

    Can't comment on Flex as I haven't looked into it, from the comments here it sounds like I should put that on my to-do list.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ralf Skirr
      @all: Thanks for your continued suggestions, good to get feedback about your experience and about what you've used.


      Originally Posted by SteveJohnson View Post

      One point in favor of Thesis is that it doesn't touch core WordPress code; Semio (at least the last version I saw) did. To me, that's a terrible no-no. It leaves you at the mercy of a private developer, and one that has had some recent troubles at that. I wouldn't touch SemioLogic now with a 10 ft. pole.
      That's a very good point. I didn't know that. If this proves to be true for the current version then it is not a theme I would use.

      After all the purpose of a theme is to leave the CMS code untouched, that is why themes were invented in the first place.

      I'm using wordpress because it's continually updated and expanded, and because it has a huge developer base. If I would switch to an 'altered' branch then I could as well use any other CMS that might have good features but not a solid developer base. I think it's important to stick to the main wordpress development.

      I've seen too many small software companies stop their development, expecially the typical 1-person-business. Then you've been left with a software that's outdated in no time.

      Ralf
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  • Profile picture of the author abelacts
    I choose a theme based on design and flexibility in customizing. I have used StudioPress and like it. However I might give Thesis a try as I have heard many good things about it. Another one to watch out is Woo Themes.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ralf Skirr
    Originally Posted by Craig Desorcy View Post

    Probably not going to make any friends with my thoughts on this
    and that's cool.

    What a waste of time it is even thinking about a theme being the best for SEO.

    New people to IM are now being trained to think this is so important.

    Take the most crappy theme you can find, add the "All in one SEO plugin",
    Get mega back links for your targeted keyword (slowly), do some deep linking,
    make sure you have your inner linking game down and you'll rank in the
    search engines. Give it three to six months as long as you're not trying
    to rank for "golf clubs" or some other impossible word or phrase.

    When talking themes being SEO friendly we're talking "On Page Factors".
    Not as important as it used to be and based on my results it's all about
    back links.

    We have people here wasting time on getting the best SEO friendly theme
    when they don't even have an offer online that converts. And lots of new
    people come here, see threads like this and now think "Man, I have to find
    a search engine friendly theme!"

    How about, "Man, I have to find a way to create killer content people are
    going to want to link to!"

    Craig
    I can assure you I have great results with on page SEO and there's a lot a theme can do for your seo that the seo plugin can not do. If you don't see that maybe upgrade your seo knowledge and think creatively.


    Using the seo plugin plus having an optimized theme gets great results and tons of free traffic.

    BTW: why do you assume that working on on page seo excludes writing good content that people want to link to? Imagine one would combine it...

    Ralf
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Molano
    Originally Posted by Craig Desorcy View Post

    Probably not going to make any friends with my thoughts on this
    and that's cool.

    What a waste of time it is even thinking about a theme being the best for SEO.

    New people to IM are now being trained to think this is so important.

    Take the most crappy theme you can find, add the "All in one SEO plugin",
    Get mega back links for your targeted keyword (slowly), do some deep linking,
    make sure you have your inner linking game down and you'll rank in the
    search engines. Give it three to six months as long as you're not trying
    to rank for "golf clubs" or some other impossible word or phrase.

    When talking themes being SEO friendly we're talking "On Page Factors".
    Not as important as it used to be and based on my results it's all about
    back links.

    We have people here wasting time on getting the best SEO friendly theme
    when they don't even have an offer online that converts. And lots of new
    people come here, see threads like this and now think "Man, I have to find
    a search engine friendly theme!"

    How about, "Man, I have to find a way to create killer content people are
    going to want to link to!"

    Craig
    How about ranking top 5 for business consulting, an "impossible" keyword according to your standards, I did it in under 2 months with a 4 month old domain. 100% white-hat and that's only 1 of my power rankings.

    That keyword alone has generated me over $120,000 USD net profit in the past 2 months.

    That's how good Sem Pro is. Go ahead, Google it.

    As I said, Denis was a search engine algorithm developer, the guy knows what he is doing. He only messed with the code because he had to. WP has some issues believe it or not.

    I agree that the theme is not much of an eye candy, but who needs that when you can gain amazing rankings.

    The Sem Pro SEO plugin is by far superior to the All In One SEO Pack.

    Sem Pro is not just a theme, it comes with over 40 plugins.

    Advanced SEO is NOT just about backlinks, half the battle is ON site SEO.
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Molano
    Originally Posted by Craig Desorcy View Post

    Danial,

    What I wrote is my option. You can have yours. Yours does not affect what I do
    and I'm sure mine will not affect what you do.

    Ralf, I hope you choice the theme that works best for you.

    Best,

    Craig
    Yes Craig, but your opinion is far too strong, as if there was no other option.

    I'm just showing that there is, with proof.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lightlysalted
    for me it would be Thesis, looks professional and clean.
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Molano
    Originally Posted by Craig Desorcy View Post

    Cool. Let's show off...

    What's the search count for "How to start a blog" and how many completing pages?
    I'm on the first page and will be in the top five in three months.

    Your way works and so does mine.

    If my opinion was too strong and came off as "THE ONLY WAY" then I apologize. That
    was not my goal.

    Craig
    How to start a blog = 992,000 competing pages under quotes and 12,100 exact global monthly searches according to the Google Keyword Tool (5 words).

    Business consulting = 5,120,000 competing pages under quotes and 49,500 exact global monthly searches according to the Google Keyword Tool (2 words).

    You obviously know what you're doing, "how to start a blog" is a great ranking.

    I'm just showing that in my experience the theme does indeed matter and so does the CMS. But as you said, everyone is entitled to their opinion.
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  • Profile picture of the author Leonard Holmes
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    • Profile picture of the author Daniel Molano
      Originally Posted by Steve Porcaro View Post

      I know many people have said it, however it is not clunky. Where people have issues is when they try to use 4.95 a month shared hosting.

      ...

      We all make our own choices and decisions on the information given. I am a developer for many of the premium themes however I keep going back to Semio as it is just so much easier to maintain, manage, and create.

      The reason I am a developer for the others is that people like the look, and yes they are good themes......Semiologic is a platform

      There is a difference
      I couldn't have said it better myself Steve, Semiologic is not a standalone theme, it's a platform. An improved version of Wordpress I might add.
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    • Profile picture of the author Lance K
      Originally Posted by Steve Porcaro View Post

      I know many people have said it, however it is not clunky. Where people have issues is when they try to use 4.95 a month shared hosting.
      Steve, what hosting service & plan do you use for your Semio sites? That's one of the problems I had in the past. And it wasn't a $4.95/month plan either. I'm just not techie enough to know exactly what to look for when planning to use Semio. Thanks.


      Originally Posted by Steve Porcaro View Post

      The reason I am a developer for the others is that people like the look, and yes they are good themes......Semiologic is a platform

      There is a difference
      Excellent point.
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  • Profile picture of the author robertvance
    I like Semiologic Pro. I have used it on several sites and I find the support from Dennis to be top notch. I also use flexability2 on some blogs. I like it for its ease of customization.
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  • Profile picture of the author internetwarrior97
    Neither seem interesting enough to draw the attention of a customer who probably has a 2 second attention span. However, I suppose if you're going to have a catchy and bold headline the somewhat bland theme will not distract the customers eyes....

    With that said:

    Between those two I choose Semilogic solely because it goes down linearly and doesn't distract the eyes to other buttons and words like Thesis does. It is important to keep the flow of the customer's reading and not distract them.
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  • Profile picture of the author yaji
    I don't think theme is a big deal at the beginning. Sure you can upgrade later on if you have made enough money but to start with IM I don't think theme plays a big role.

    Just my 2 cents.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ralf Skirr
      Originally Posted by yaji View Post

      I don't think theme is a big deal at the beginning. Sure you can upgrade later on if you have made enough money but to start with IM I don't think theme plays a big role.

      Just my 2 cents.
      Uhm, I'm not exactly 'starting' with IM, been doing it since 2001.


      And I went through testing several CMS platforms before I decided to stick with wordpress.

      When building a blog network with 50+ blogs it might be good to put some thought into the theme upfront. Why would someone want to start with an inferior, non-optimized and uncomfortable theme in the first place?

      Ralf
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      • Profile picture of the author NetMan
        Originally Posted by Ralf Skirr View Post

        Uhm, I'm not exactly 'starting' with IM, been doing it since 2001.


        And I went through testing several CMS platforms before I decided to stick with wordpress.

        When building a blog network with 50+ blogs it might be good to put some thought into the theme upfront. Why would someone want to start with an inferior, non-optimized and uncomfortable theme in the first place?

        Ralf
        Ralf, Wordpress ROCKS! indeed

        The flex theme people are talking is probably this one here http://flexxtheme.com/ in case you haven't seen it yet

        Regards,

        Andre Foisy
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  • Profile picture of the author ptwain
    Originally Posted by Craig Desorcy View Post

    Probably not going to make any friends with my thoughts on this
    and that's cool.

    What a waste of time it is even thinking about a theme being the best for SEO.

    New people to IM are now being trained to think this is so important.

    Take the most crappy theme you can find, add the "All in one SEO plugin",
    Get mega back links for your targeted keyword (slowly), do some deep linking,
    make sure you have your inner linking game down and you'll rank in the
    search engines. Give it three to six months as long as you're not trying
    to rank for "golf clubs" or some other impossible word or phrase.

    When talking themes being SEO friendly we're talking "On Page Factors".
    Not as important as it used to be and based on my results it's all about
    back links.

    We have people here wasting time on getting the best SEO friendly theme
    when they don't even have an offer online that converts. And lots of new
    people come here, see threads like this and now think "Man, I have to find
    a search engine friendly theme!"

    How about, "Man, I have to find a way to create killer content people are
    going to want to link to!"

    Craig
    Great comment Craig! People need to stop worrying about the little things that don't really matter in IM. The very first thing is to find a starving crowd(niche) that buys, market it, and build traffic. Once you have that traffic, then you can optimize or use these SEO themes to get better rankings. But I admit the Thesis theme is pretty slick.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ryce
    So...... just to make things more accurate

    The Flex Theme discussed here is http://flexxtheme.com or | WP Flex premium wordpress theme
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  • Profile picture of the author DennisFMaloney
    Originally Posted by Craig Desorcy
    Probably not going to make any friends with my thoughts on this
    and that's cool.

    What a waste of time it is even thinking about a theme being the best for SEO.

    New people to IM are now being trained to think this is so important.

    Take the most crappy theme you can find, add the "All in one SEO plugin",
    Get mega back links for your targeted keyword (slowly), do some deep linking,
    make sure you have your inner linking game down and you'll rank in the
    search engines. Give it three to six months as long as you're not trying
    to rank for "golf clubs" or some other impossible word or phrase.

    When talking themes being SEO friendly we're talking "On Page Factors".
    Not as important as it used to be and based on my results it's all about
    back links.

    We have people here wasting time on getting the best SEO friendly theme
    when they don't even have an offer online that converts. And lots of new
    people come here, see threads like this and now think "Man, I have to find
    a search engine friendly theme!"

    How about, "Man, I have to find a way to create killer content people are
    going to want to link to!"

    Craig



    Thank you from a newbe
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    • Profile picture of the author TelegramSam
      Originally Posted by DennisFMaloney View Post

      Originally Posted by Craig Desorcy
      Probably not going to make any friends with my thoughts on this
      and that's cool.

      What a waste of time it is even thinking about a theme being the best for SEO.

      New people to IM are now being trained to think this is so important.

      Take the most crappy theme you can find, add the "All in one SEO plugin",
      Get mega back links for your targeted keyword (slowly), do some deep linking,
      make sure you have your inner linking game down and you'll rank in the
      search engines. Give it three to six months as long as you're not trying
      to rank for "golf clubs" or some other impossible word or phrase.

      When talking themes being SEO friendly we're talking "On Page Factors".
      Not as important as it used to be and based on my results it's all about
      back links.

      We have people here wasting time on getting the best SEO friendly theme
      when they don't even have an offer online that converts. And lots of new
      people come here, see threads like this and now think "Man, I have to find
      a search engine friendly theme!"

      How about, "Man, I have to find a way to create killer content people are
      going to want to link to!"

      Craig



      Thank you from a newbe

      On the whole I understand and agree with what you are saying.

      But well written html code (an seo friendly theme) is important for the search engines.

      It is one of the basics, along with keyword research, compelling copy, a great offer and links etc.

      One piece of the puzzle so to speak. Without it you are definitely making it harder for yourself.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alle-Cat
    I've been setting up a fair number of blogs over the past few months and have tried quite a few "premium themes" including Brian Gardeners, Elegant Themes and several others, all of which I liked. This is the first time I've ever seen Semilogic mentioned anywhere...

    I discovered Thesis a month or so ago and have never looked back. I really like its out of the box clean style. It can be a bit complicated if you want to modify it to any great degree, but any changes are kept in a couple of separate style-sheets which don't touch Wordpress at all.

    Thesis has a very active support forum and people are ready and willing to help you with any problems you may come across.

    Thesis gets my vote.
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    • Profile picture of the author zcrafts
      Hello,

      I will surely vote for : Thesis
      I like this theme both in terms of SEO and design.
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  • Profile picture of the author malcasid
    I've never heard of semiologic. Thesis is surprisingly extremely customizable.
    I have seen a lot of great blogs based on Thesis. You would never know that they were build on Thesis.
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    • Profile picture of the author fordannycool
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  • Profile picture of the author debtfreehispanic
    I would have to give this title to Thesis. There is a learning curve for open hooks but it is worth it since your customizations will go with you when you upgrade.
    Signature

    My WSO is giving 40% off WOW! There is an affiliate program with it, pays 50%. High quality videos showing step-by-step what to click and what to type in, so easy!

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  • Profile picture of the author debtfreehispanic
    Plus there is a cool feature that lets you add a "no follow" tag to your post or page if you wanted to. The style is clean and easy to use.
    Signature

    My WSO is giving 40% off WOW! There is an affiliate program with it, pays 50%. High quality videos showing step-by-step what to click and what to type in, so easy!

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    • Profile picture of the author Dellco
      How much does Semiologic cost? The last I heard was $300...and I think the price went up?

      Semiologic might be good for SEO, but the appearance needs improvement. You could recognize a Semiologic theme a mile away...
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      • Profile picture of the author Matt James
        Semiologic might be good for SEO, but the appearance needs improvement. You could recognize a Semiologic theme a mile away...
        Wait until you see Semiologic Reloaded.

        I think it's this Friday there'll be a beta of Semiologic 6 with WP 2.8 released - should be a beautiful thing indeed.
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        • Profile picture of the author malcasid
          Originally Posted by Matt James View Post

          Wait until you see Semiologic Reloaded.

          I think it's this Friday there'll be a beta of Semiologic 6 with WP 2.8 released - should be a beautiful thing indeed.
          What does semiologic look like? I don't even see an example on their sales page?
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  • Profile picture of the author WareTime
    Originally Posted by Craig Desorcy View Post

    What a waste of time it is even thinking about a theme being the best for SEO.
    <snip>
    How about, "Man, I have to find a way to create killer content people are
    going to want to link to!"

    Craig
    +1000!

    What sort of arrangement shall we place the deck chairs in? Oh, that gash from the iceberg, we can get to that later.

    Here is a test. Do a search for "roses" one of the most competive terms there is. How many of the top 10 even use wordpress? How many look as nice as wordpress and a nice theme? It's content and links that got them where they are, not a theme or on page optimization.

    When picking a theme for a site, I pick something customizable/maintainable and something I don't see everywhere as much as possible. One of my best performing sites right now is so ugly you can't believe it.

    As Craig said most on page seo factors are all but dead because of over optimization by everyone. Meta keywords don't matter. Description does slightly because sometimes it's used in the serps and you can make it more of a call to action to generate the click. The title of the page is probably the single most important thing. Forget about h1, h2 etc rocketing you to stardom.

    Learn to write good original content and don't put it on the article directories. You'll get links that count.
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  • Profile picture of the author MIB Mastermind
    I use the flexx theme and find it great. I have never used thesis so I can't comment, but I have used semilogic and find flexx to be better.

    Hoped this helped.
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    • Profile picture of the author Innercore
      Hi
      Iam using flexx and flexibility themes.Both are not behind the thesis theme but you have to put them in the front mainly flexibilty theme.You can create a squeeze page on the fly with flexibilty.I think this is lacking in thesis theme.
      In my opinion, flexsqueeze(flexibility theme) is the best at present other than affiliate theme for both Affiliates and for Personal use.

      At this moment,Iam using one of the WSO + flexibility for an amazon product.
      The WSO product is for reaching google page 1 with amazon product within short span.

      Iam testing it.
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  • Profile picture of the author salonmar
    WOW! Craig, Thanks for taking a risk~ Your message is well received.
    Deborah P.
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  • Profile picture of the author kyhawk2
    I like flexsqeeze and free seo plugin by jeff johnson
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  • Profile picture of the author Denis de Bernardy
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  • Profile picture of the author cctravis
    Every single day I like Thesis more and more. Such great customization with the open hook system. Thesis makes my life much easier and makes me enjoy what I do more.
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  • Profile picture of the author Instructor
    So is it just as easy to use the Semiologic Plugins package with say Thesis, Flexibility, Revolution 2, etc as it is to use with the Semiologic Theme?

    Also exactly when could we expect the new howto's to be available since the current one's appear to be obsolete?

    Finally, can you send me a feature list for Reloaded 6.X?
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    • Profile picture of the author fordannycool
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      • Profile picture of the author drnet
        Well, After a long time away, I am back with semiologic based on the post Dennis made above.

        I have a long history with wordpress and my early days were spent inside the authority site center which had a tweaked out version of semiologic and it was fantastic back then.

        Yes, Dennis did step away from this and it got stale. But after spending a few minutes back inside and loading up the new version, I am VERY excited and impressed with how far he has already brought it back.

        Dennis is brilliant with wordpress and now that his heart and soul are back in it, so is mine. The platform used to be the best on the internet by far if you were using wordpress. It was very superior in the sense that he designs this not only for traffic, but the current version is tweaked with a custom CSS system so you can make it look however you want.

        On top of that, Dennis understands SEO, but now he has a strong focus on conversion. Whats the sense of getting traffic if it doesnt covert?

        So It will be interesting to see where my sites go as I began the conversion process over to his system.

        If it is as good as it used to be, this will be a homerun as far as I am concerned and I can get back to focusing on one system that is proven to outperform the rest.

        Thanks Dennis for Coming Back Stronger than ever.

        Dr Net
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  • Profile picture of the author venusaffiliate
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    • Profile picture of the author dmderoeck
      Hi Susan,

      Most every theme uses features, plugins and seem to have their own idiosyncrasies to deal with, some more than others.

      If you've used Wordpress and enjoy learning, there is no reason why you can't learn any theme. I like using premium themes because of the added support. When you get hung up on something, you can ask people that have used and know the theme for help/suggestions.

      Studiopress has an excellent forum and highly recommend their themes. I have never used Semiologic.

      Dan
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  • Profile picture of the author TPFLegionaire
    I am interested in buying the semiologic package....Can someone entice me with some great bonuses for buying through their affiliate link?

    hint , I need traffic and articles...

    Let me know what you can do by PM

    Many thx
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    • Profile picture of the author fordannycool
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      • Profile picture of the author TPFLegionaire
        Originally Posted by fordannycool View Post

        Hi,

        Just go to my site order it through the banner in my top wide sidebar and I will link back to your website besides I could give you great deals for some plug-ins you may needs as well as articles tips, etc... please, if interested check my blog: daniel-abelcoindre.com

        Just to let you know Denis de Bernardy does not allow us to give any discount on his Semiologic pro package but any others options are opened for articles, plug-ins, and others bonuses, etc...

        also you can contact me privately at: fordannycool at gmail dot com

        Besides I will help you to get traffic as well as unique articles and so one...

        Hope that will help,

        Danny


        Ah! Thanks for that , I will visit over the weekend and let you know if there is a deal to be made, I need to spend a bit of time with the free version and understand exactly what I get with the Pro...My main concern is reselling a site with the Theme and plug-ins...

        Can I do that?

        Cheers,
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        • Profile picture of the author Denis de Bernardy
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          • Profile picture of the author Lance K
            Denis,

            Can SP be used on client sites? How much more does it cost to be able to do that? Thanks.
            Signature
            "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
            ~ Zig Ziglar
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          • Profile picture of the author TPFLegionaire
            Originally Posted by Denis de Bernardy View Post

            I'm an inch from releasing a release candidate, and my next step is docs and videos, so your best bet here is to follow the semiologic.com blog for two or three weeks to actually see what's in there.



            The license, is the following: you can create any number of sites using it. Provided they're for your own use. Your API key entitles you, and you only, to updates and support. It does not entitle the same to your customers, to whoever you sell your site to, etc.

            In other words, if you resell a site created using the software, it's in the new owner's best interest to get updates and support as well, and he should get a license -- typically through your affiliate link.

            D.

            PS: Given the surge of security related releases in past years, "it's in their best interest to get it" should really read as "they'd be nuts to not get it". Hacked sites are hard to fix; and I mercilessly charge my hourly rate when I deal with that sort of thing -- on top of the license.


            Hi Dennis .

            Thanks for clarifying these things for me, you and Dany have done an outstanding job in putting your point across, I have just signed up via Dany's link and I look forward to let my webmaster loose with the package.


            Basically the plan will be to deploy Semio logic across a few selected sites and integrate it with WPRemix Premium Wordpress CMS Theme theme and develop them into conduit sales friendly sites.


            I trust that we will find answers to whatever questions and issues we may have via the forum and support.

            now...I don't suppose you have a plugin that will dump Chris Rempel's affiliate intel data into the Semio platform and automatically generate all the optimised pages? Ho! and if you do does it have a big red button marked" press here to make money"?


            Just kidding...We'll get to work with what we got.

            Many thx.
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  • Profile picture of the author TPFLegionaire
    quick question for you all using semiologic

    Has anyone of you tried building a "conduit method " site with it?

    thx
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  • Profile picture of the author KDStyle
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    • Profile picture of the author fordannycool
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      • Profile picture of the author Wintermute
        I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Atahualpa theme, many people consider it far more customizable than Thesis (and it's 100% free).
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  • Profile picture of the author markshields
    For my blog which you can see the link for in my signature I used Flex Squeeze and I would say I got a pretty good theme out of it and would reccomend it
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  • Profile picture of the author James Schramko
    I use many developer themes and my favorite is Thesis.

    Semiologic is awesome and very powerful but the design is lacking.
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    • Profile picture of the author fordannycool
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      • Profile picture of the author James Schramko
        Originally Posted by fordannycool View Post

        Hi James,

        You may be right depending of your perception of how it should look like but as for myself I think a theme should be simple especially for IM, so Sem-reloaded is fine for me, besides now it even has a "Custom CSS" to modify slightly the skin which is handy and cannot be found on many other themes...

        All this without saying that there are 28 skins which are included in this theme, and as a reminder for those who want to test it, Sem-reloaded is still a FREE theme but has the power of many premium themes.

        Besides, also you can still use your Thesis theme within the Semiologic Pro package... just install your theme on the pro version, activate Thesis and all is done, you will have your Thesis theme with the power of this awesome and STAND ALONE Semiologic package!!!

        Cheers,

        Danny

        My IM blog (which is often ranked on page one of Google for the term Internet Marketer) is a semiologic blog with a new Wootheme + custom skin so I hear ya!
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  • Profile picture of the author ZhenyaNoble
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    • Profile picture of the author fordannycool
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      • Profile picture of the author fypnlp
        Originally Posted by fordannycool View Post

        Hi,

        To make it very short and easy to understand....
        Each theme is like a man naked body... then the skins could be the different clothing you put on... so to say the body stay the same but the clothing make it looking great and as many skins available as many look it will be!!!

        Sometime theme and skin is a whole particularly when the theme has nothing else than a SINGLE SKIN... but then comes the skinners who are let say some people who make different skins to the theme which did not have so many or just one... but they sell each skin at about $20 to $100 so to say if you buy a theme with only a single skin and would like a special skin then comes the skinner who make you what you wish and charge you a cost whatever he wants or he already made some available and you choose the one you like if any and buy it!!!

        Buttom line is, if for example you like Thesis and you think too few skins are available you go to:
        Amazing Thesis Theme Skins for Wordpress
        or to:
        ThesisThemes.com - Thesis Skins
        or to:
        Top 10 Thesis Theme customizations

        But all are premium skins and most be bought!!!

        So to make it easy to understand you will pay once the Thesis Developpers price (so you can customize the theme) + the skin whatever the price is... so cost twice...

        Now for Semiologic pro package:
        This is a platform which means that you have a FREE Sem-Reloaded theme WITH depending the version about 28 SKINS all these FREE + 65 premium plug-ins not to be found anywhere else + WordPress 2.8.4 BUGS FREE included... we never update or upgrade directly from WP because for example the version 2.8.x got so many bugs that your whole site wile be screwed and you may even loose the whole thing... Denis de Bernardy the owner and coder fix the bugs in order to have a version working perfectly besides he is one of the main helper to get WP bugs fixed... so to say we have WP bugs free way before you got it fixed from WP

        Regarding the plug-ins and what they do the best because they are about 65 is to check this link and go one by one and read what it is all about... Denis de Bernardy may go to this forum and answer you more precisely... but he said in few weeks he will make photos, videos, teaching tools available from his site... many things are new because of the new WP 2.8.4 structure...

        Please check this link and go one by one in each plug-in:

        WordPress Plugins

        I also have attached few screen-shots of the skins available in THE OLD VERSION the new have slightly new things and some new plug-ins made especially for the new WP 2.8.4:

        Cheers,

        Danny

        PS: I will upload more in the next post...

        Fordanny cool,

        I just want to thank you. I purchased thesis over the weekend and after spending 3 days trying to work with thesis. I ended up absolutely hating it (I'm not a designer and i don't know css).

        But your comments have really made me change my mind about thesis and I will give it a another shot (or at least get a designer to do some work for me) and I will learn it myself as well.

        Are there any good tutorial thesis sites I can use? One which explains thesis in the most basic terms possible (as I'm a complete novice and I don't understand how to code openhooks)? I've used the thesis site and frankly some of it went right over my head (esp. the bit about modifying custom.php!).

        So if anyone is thinking of using thesis, I would say buy it while it's cheap (though I warn you it's not designed with the novice in mind. It's not a plug and play product) if you need a website that needs to go up quickly pay someone to do it for but learn how do use it yourself.
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    • Profile picture of the author fordannycool
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  • Profile picture of the author $life
    I dont think so...
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  • Profile picture of the author john_kennedy
    Search google for:

    Made with an easy to use WordPress theme
    and you'll get quite a few sites made with the latest version of Semiologic. For a link to the website scroll back up to post 106 and check the links in the siggie. That poster is the creator for the product.

    I don't use it, can't afford it right now, but would if I could!

    John
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  • Profile picture of the author BeauJustin
    I've developed sites using a variety of different themes, Thesis included, and in my opinion it's unmatched. You can achieve high page rank very quickly for low-medium competition keywords, if you know what you're doing. It is just an amazingly powerful theme.

    That said - it is not for the faint of heart. If you are a non-geek, it is not easy to learn the workings of this theme out of the box. A majority of the tech support comes from the forum, which while helpful, more often than not requires you to have an idea what they're taking about.

    For instance, one of the frustrating things about Thesis is that, while you can make changes to the custom_functions page from the admin panel, you'd better make sure your design and programming syntax is proper, because if it isn't, it breaks the entire site - including the admin side, and you have to reupload a good copy of the custom functions page to fix it.

    You can do some great customization with thesis once you learn the terminology associated with hooks and functions. But, in my humble opinion, to get the most out of Thesis, if you're not already familiar with Wordpress functions, and don't have a high technical aptitude either get ready to learn, or hire someone to make the changes for you. You could just use the stock theme out of the box, and don't worry about changing the code. It's a beautifully simple layout, and works for a lot of people who do just that.

    Some other premium theme offerings out there which are making ripples in the Parent Theme category (like Thesis) are the Vigilance theme - which I like a lot, and seems to have as much SEO readiness as Thesis, and the WP-Frugal theme, which is also a gorgeously simple theme, which bears a lot of resemblance to Thesis.

    Both Vigilance and WP-Frugal have free offerings of their themes. The primary difference is that Vigilance is a fully functioning theme, the paid version simply gives you access to forums, some very cool addons, access to the support team, developers rights, etc.. Wordpress Frugal has a free version which is nice and simple, and a paid version which comes with lots placement spots similar to Thesis hooks, but without all the programming.

    Therein lies the difference in these two parent themes versus a majority of the free parent themes, and Thesis, as well, is that the programming requirements are low. You'll still have to know decent HTML to achieve a truly unique design, but you don't have to fool around with learning all the terminology of Thesis.

    By the way, I love Thesis and have used it on numerous sites. It's just not as simple out of the box as they claim.

    Google Wordpress Vigilance, and Wordpress Frugal and see what you think.

    God bless you and your business!

    Beau
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  • Profile picture of the author BeauJustin
    I've tried both the Frugal and Vigilance and like them both. Vigilance has similar SEO power to Thesis, but with the added benefit of not being quite as tech-maddening.

    Vigilance has it's own learning curve, but it's nowhere near as steep as Thesis. Something which is a little overwhelming with Vigilance, at first, is the level of control which is readily available right there in the backend control panel. There are so many different control parameters for adjusting borders, font sizes, colors, spacing size, columns etc., it's hard to figure out what control on the backend, changes which element on the front page. I mean there are just tons of control parameters back there! Still better than having to code a custom_css file, like in Thesis.

    The great thing about Vigilance is that you can check it out for free, fully functioning, and keep it if you like it. To join the community and get the benefits there is only $44.

    Frugal has a very similar backend to Vigilance, but perhaps not the SEO functionality readily available in Thesis or Vigilance. The free version is very nice and clean and in my opinion can be used for a lot of different purposes.

    But the paid version, design wise, it is probably more versatile out of the box than Thesis and Vigilance put together. If you know your css, you can get some really crafty designs quick. If you go to the front page of Frugal you'll see all these grid boxes on the front page. Those spots are what's available with the Pro Frugal theme. The support team is awesome.
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  • Profile picture of the author James Pateman
    Hi Ralf,

    There are so many great free themes, why pay for them. I have been told that if you are building a blog network then you might want to use several different themes so that they look different to the search engines. I like inove, fluid-blue, and lessismore themes.

    cheers.
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    • Profile picture of the author fordannycool
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      • Profile picture of the author Oriam
        $300 for Semiologic pro package is to expensive for me right now, maybe later when i start making money in my IM.
        Is this amount just for the first year, how much to renew ?
        I know nothing about php coding or css, is this site
        or other sites like Thesis easy to edit my webpage ?
        Don't get me wrong, i will learn php and css, but right now i already purchased 2 domain names and 2 years of business web hosting with hostgator.
        So what I'm saying, time is money and i don't have much money left right now.
        Sorry if this sounds like ranting, i feel a bit lost and overwhelmed by all this incertitude of my part :confused:

        I do appreciate all your informative post and wish you all a Great weekend !!!
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        • Profile picture of the author Andrew Wilson
          Originally Posted by Oriam View Post

          $300 for Semiologic pro package is to expensive for me right now, maybe later when i start making money in my IM.
          Is this amount just for the first year, how much to renew ?
          I know nothing about php coding or css, is this site
          or other sites like Thesis easy to edit my webpage ?
          Don't get me wrong, i will learn php and css, but right now i already purchased 2 domain names and 2 years of business web hosting with hostgator.
          So what I'm saying, time is money and i don't have much money left right now.
          Sorry if this sounds like ranting, i feel a bit lost and overwhelmed by all this incertitude of my part :confused:

          I do appreciate all your informative post and wish you all a Great weekend !!!
          Remember, this is a business and like ALL businesses it requires a degree of investment. Don't worry about affording Semiologic for a moment. First sit down and write a busieness plan, this'll help you to understand the resources that you will need. If you come tot he conclusion that you will NEED Semiologic or some other paid tool or service then you can plan how to acquire them.
          A couple of thoughts, given that cash is tight...
          1) Why pay upfront for two years of hosting? That money would have paid for Semiologic and as your busienss is going to generate cash then it will pay the ongoing cost of the hosting.
          2) Same question for domain names. Why buy until you are ready to use them?

          Look at how you are spending money, you may find that by planning your business and paying for resources when you need them and not in advance that your cash flow looks better and enables you to pay for stuff you need NOW not in 23 or 24 months from now.
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  • Profile picture of the author dseisner
    Gotta say...

    I found this thread after I was looking to find the best wordpress theme out there. See, I put up 5 blogs. 2 with 1 theme, 2 with another, 1 with another. The first 2 have been indexed deep but with a bunch of duplicate content. Same instance for the standalone blog. The other 2 have not been indexed more than 1 page COMBINED. I did everything the exact same on all the blogs pretty much except content. And I learned a little more about what search engines are looking for and decided to handle this problem.

    I decided not to spend money and try the Semiologic Reloaded on one of the non-working blogs and Vigilance on the other. FYI, I could not find a free version of Frugal. Was quite pricey for the pay one.

    They are both simple looking themes, which I like. I just installed them, so I don't know the results yet, but at first glance, Semiologic seems MUCH MORE robust than Vigilance. Seems as though there's way more options. And the thing I like most is I know that the content is loaded before the navi bars because it says so on their sales page - which means if I put anchor text in my posts, it will actually count. I will of course look at the code to make sure all the right tags are there, but I'm not quite there yet. I will report back.

    This is just an at-first-glance of two FREE themes. I will come back with results soon.


    ***Update: No results yet but I did want to say that Semi is really only more customizable when it comes to site layout (very nice job here), coding, and adding a header.

    Vigilance has less options for page layout and also has a spot for google analytics (not a big deal).

    More soon...
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  • Profile picture of the author Karan Goel
    Thesis is a good theme...Very elegant and
    good looking. But, many of us can't pay $87 for it.

    You might want to check out it's "clone" that is available for free!

    Thesis Wordpress Theme Clone – Save Those $87 | Gizmoko - Cool Websites, New Softwares And Computing
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  • Profile picture of the author Lorenzo Wardell
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author Denis de Bernardy
      Originally Posted by lbwardellsr View Post

      Thesis is the best by far
      Being the author of the Semiologic theme, I'd say that Thesis is very different, actually. :-)

      Over the years, the underlying idea behind the Semiologic theme has been to keep things simple for end users, so that they can focus on their marketing.

      By contrast, the Thesis theme has evolved and turned into a Tool that allows CSS savvy users to create whichever look and feel they like. So, it's really a different approach.

      Keep in mind that for a very CSS savvy user, most everything you can do with Thesis can also be done with the Semiologic theme. We're regularly asked to create a skin that looks like this/that and the Semiologic theme's canvas has allowed us to do so on a consistent basis.

      For less a CSS savvy user, it really goes down to how happy one is with sticking to a collection of built-in skins and the ability to change his site's header, and maybe a few colors (using the Custom CSS editor) here and there. The target audience is users who have better things to do than spending hours customizing the way their site looks.

      I'd also like to rehash most of what I highlighted above: the Semiologic theme is just that: a (free) theme.

      Semiologic Pro, which comprises about 60 plugins in addition, is where the real value is. My own highlights would include:
      • Google Analytics, Ad Manager, Newsletter Manager
      • Script Manager, Redirect Manager
      • Fuzzy Widgets, Related Widgets, Silo Widgets
      • Inline Widgets, Feed Widgets, Widget Contexts
      • Search Reloaded
      • Mediacaster
      • Smart Links, Semiologic SEO, XML Sitemaps
      • Semiologic Cache

      When looking at them individually, many a WP savvy user would dismiss the whole idea because there are similar, free plugins in the wild. I'm fine with that idea, since they're not the target audience.

      For other users, these Sem Pro plugins are a one-stop shop, they're easier to use (as a rule of thumb, we enforce a best practice rather than add an option) and they're much better maintained. Most importantly, the plugins play well together and are built with the Semiologic theme in mind; and their users are not left to help themselves in the WP support forum when they've a problem.
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      • Profile picture of the author Joe2
        Originally Posted by Denis de Bernardy View Post

        Being the author of the Semiologic theme, I'd say that Thesis is very different, actually. :-)

        Over the years, the underlying idea behind the Semiologic theme has been to keep things simple for end users, so that they can focus on their marketing.

        By contrast, the Thesis theme has evolved and turned into a Tool that allows CSS savvy users to create whichever look and feel they like. So, it's really a different approach.

        Keep in mind that for a very CSS savvy user, most everything you can do with Thesis can also be done with the Semiologic theme. We're regularly asked to create a skin that looks like this/that and the Semiologic theme's canvas has allowed us to do so on a consistent basis.

        For less a CSS savvy user, it really goes down to how happy one is with sticking to a collection of built-in skins and the ability to change his site's header, and maybe a few colors (using the Custom CSS editor) here and there. The target audience is users who have better things to do than spending hours customizing the way their site looks.

        I'd also like to rehash most of what I highlighted above: the Semiologic theme is just that: a (free) theme.

        Semiologic Pro, which comprises about 60 plugins in addition, is where the real value is. My own highlights would include:
        • Google Analytics, Ad Manager, Newsletter Manager
        • Script Manager, Redirect Manager
        • Fuzzy Widgets, Related Widgets, Silo Widgets
        • Inline Widgets, Feed Widgets, Widget Contexts
        • Search Reloaded
        • Mediacaster
        • Smart Links, Semiologic SEO, XML Sitemaps
        • Semiologic Cache

        When looking at them individually, many a WP savvy user would dismiss the whole idea because there are similar, free plugins in the wild. I'm fine with that idea, since they're not the target audience.

        For other users, these Sem Pro plugins are a one-stop shop, they're easier to use (as a rule of thumb, we enforce a best practice rather than add an option) and they're much better maintained. Most importantly, the plugins play well together and are built with the Semiologic theme in mind; and their users are not left to help themselves in the WP support forum when they've a problem.
        Could you tell me if semiologoic is OK for someone who is just starting out but has a basic understanding of internet marketing or is more experience needed to use it and gain the most out of it?

        Also, what advantages does it have when applied to straight affiliate marketing or something like conduit sites (review sites) as outlined by Chris Rempel.

        Thank you
        Joe
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        • Profile picture of the author Joe2
          I should have said Semiologic Pro in my last post

          Joe
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        • Profile picture of the author fordannycool
          [DELETED]
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          • Profile picture of the author Joe2
            Originally Posted by fordannycool View Post

            Hi Joe,

            Yes as Denis de Bernardy said Semiologic Pro has been built with the newbie in mind... and I will not say the same to Thesis... or others, many newbies are frustrated :-)

            However I like thesis a lot BUT it is really difficult to customize and some help are needed on a daily basis for the newbie... to make it working right at the first place... without being in despair... besides so many things are integrated and for most of the internet marketers the customization provided within is more than sufficient... besides Denis has been for the past months through the forum listening to his customers and made now a very simple CSS customization available which fulfills most of the end users wishes...

            It seems as far as you are concerned you better stick with Semiologic... or better the Pro version and its 60 SEO plugins within, if you have the budget for it... no paid theme is able to offer so many powerful premium integrated plugins even though Thesis offer few good items... but far from being at Sem Pro level... Sem Pro is a platform...

            The question is as simple:
            Do you really need a highly customized theme with all its tweaking and difficulties or a highly optimized theme with a simple set up and 60 optimized SEO plugins, besides many skinners offer for a fair price your beloved customization?

            Besides I already mentioned as well as Denis de Bernardy the Sem Pro author , it it is possible to buy the pro version in order to get the 60 plugins and still use Thesis if it is your beloved theme, but not recommended at all if you are a newbie!!!

            What has to be compared is as simple as this:
            - Is the theme FREE?
            Sem theme, YES
            - Is the theme updated as soon as a new WP version is available?
            Sem + Pro, YES
            - Is the theme has any restriction in the Free or trial version?
            Sem free version, 100% NO, neither in features, nor time limit...
            - Is the theme built with newbie in mind?
            Sem + the Pro version, YES...
            - Is it easy to focus on the marketing job?
            Sem pro, YES
            - Can we get help immediately?
            Sem Pro, definitively, YES through support ticket and within the forum
            - Are the WP bugs IMMEDIATELY corrected with the new theme version?
            Sem Pro, YES
            - Are the WP bugs fixed WITHIN the Theme, even before WP issues correctives?
            Sem Pro, YES
            - Are the premium plugins tested and SEO focused?
            Sem pro, YES
            - Is the WP new version included withing the Theme?
            Sem Pro, YES and the installation is done all at once
            - Is it easy to install and tweaking and customizing few things alone?
            Sem Pro, Yes

            In Closing I will quote again Denis de Bernardy:
            "Keep in mind that for a very CSS savvy user, most everything you can do with Thesis can also be done with the Semiologic theme. We're regularly asked to create a skin that looks like this/that and the Semiologic theme's canvas has allowed us to do so on a consistent basis.
            For less a CSS savvy user, it really goes down to how happy one is with sticking to a collection of built-in skins and the ability to change his site's header, and maybe a few colors (using the Custom CSS editor) here and there. The target audience is users who have better things to do than spending hours customizing the way their site looks.

            I'd also like to rehash most of what I highlighted above: the Semiologic theme is just that: a (free) theme.

            Semiologic Pro, which comprises about 60 plugins in addition, is where the real value is. My own highlights would include:

            * Google Analytics, Ad Manager, Newsletter Manager
            * Script Manager, Redirect Manager
            * Fuzzy Widgets, Related Widgets, Silo Widgets
            * Inline Widgets, Feed Widgets, Widget Contexts
            * Search Reloaded
            * Mediacaster
            * Smart Links, Semiologic SEO, XML Sitemaps
            * Semiologic Cache

            When looking at them individually, many a WP savvy user would dismiss the whole idea because there are similar, free plugins in the wild. I'm fine with that idea, since they're not the target audience.

            For other users, these Sem Pro plugins are a one-stop shop, they're easier to use (as a rule of thumb, we enforce a best practice rather than add an option) and they're much better maintained. Most importantly, the plugins play well together and are built with the Semiologic theme in mind; and their users are not left to help themselves in the WP support forum when they've a problem."
            End of quote

            If you are interested to buy the Sem Pro package AND get free coaching for few weeks in order to optimize your site and get a fast top ranking... then please go to my affiliate link here:
            Meaningful Technology
            or
            Best Blogging Software

            and write to me at:
            fordannycool@gmail.com

            with your name and your Semiologic Pro order number... then I will contact you ASAP...

            Thanks a lot,

            Cheers,

            Danny
            Danny

            Whilst you obviously have a vested interest in Semiologic, I really appreciate your 'in depth' answer to my query.

            Joe
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Adams
    Headway... Unreal, Literal Point & Click: Headway Premium WordPress Theme
    Signature
    P.S. If you found my post useful, please click the "Thanks" button below...
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    • Profile picture of the author Scott Lundergan
      Originally Posted by Mike Adams View Post

      Headway... Unreal, Literal Point & Click: Headway Premium WordPress Theme
      I agree....I spent hours reading forums and comparisions seeing the differences between Headway and Thesis. I am not a coder or programmer, just simply want point and click. The reasoning for my blog is to send traffic and current customers to my site so they can see my products/offers and comment about the content of the products. Nothing fancy, just a place to consolidate content and offers.

      From reading all the up to speed 2010 comparisons between the two, Headway's SEO tags, etc are all solid. That is just what I read on several forums and blogs, so don't take my word for it

      I was about ready to hit the purchase button on Thesis and it is truly UNBELIEVABLE what someone can do with Thesis, but for what I wanted to create....

      ...a simple, clutter free blog that gets to the point of things with some added content...

      I had put off creating a blog for over three years because of all the notes mentioned throughout this thread.

      I created exactly what I wanted in no time with the point and click Visual Editor and widget add-ons in Headway. It was truly unbelievable.

      70% of it made sense right away without watching the videos, 20% after watching the videos (how it all came together) and the other 10% is what I don't understand which is how to add custom tags, code and css which can be done in Headway, I'm just slow with it.

      However, if I had more time and wanted to fiddle with more customization, themes and dive into Wordpress , I may have gone with Thesis. I am just too busy with creating products, services and content for clients.

      Scott
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      • Profile picture of the author Russell Hall
        Originally Posted by Scott Lundergan View Post

        I agree....I spent hours reading forums and comparisions seeing the differences between Headway and Thesis. I am not a coder or programmer, just simply want point and click. The reasoning for my blog is to send traffic and current customers to my site so they can see my products/offers and comment about the content of the products. Nothing fancy, just a place to consolidate content and offers.

        From reading all the up to speed 2010 comparisons between the two, Headway's SEO tags, etc are all solid. That is just what I read on several forums and blogs, so don't take my word for it

        I was about ready to hit the purchase button on Thesis and it is truly UNBELIEVABLE what someone can do with Thesis, but for what I wanted to create....

        ...a simple, clutter free blog that gets to the point of things with some added content...

        I had put off creating a blog for over three years because of all the notes mentioned throughout this thread.

        I created exactly what I wanted in no time with the point and click Visual Editor and widget add-ons in Headway. It was truly unbelievable.

        70% of it made sense right away without watching the videos, 20% after watching the videos (how it all came together) and the other 10% is what I don't understand which is how to add custom tags, code and css which can be done in Headway, I'm just slow with it.

        However, if I had more time and wanted to fiddle with more customization, themes and dive into Wordpress , I may have gone with Thesis. I am just too busy with creating products, services and content for clients.

        Scott
        I agree that it's easy to "waste" away many hours on the forums and deliberating,.. but in the end could be worthwhile.

        I've not thoroughly investigated Headway but it does seem good and more user friendly than Thesis. I bought Thesis about 4 or 5 months ago and have struggled somewhat with the set up that I had expected to be a lot more user friendly. It is user friendly to a degree,.. but then when you have to start fiddling around with custom style sheet files and php coding to access "hooks" (sections on the theme) it gets difficult,.. and that's even though I had a lot of experience with other themes especially Studio Press which whilst not 100% user friendly are a breeze compared to Thesis. The use of the Thesis "Open Hook" plugin is a MUST when programming Thesis,.. and that should come stock standard with the Theme (but they DIY,.. don't even get around to suggesting it). Don't get me wrong,.. I like Thesis a lot and will continue to use it,.. but the lack of responsiveness and apparent indifferent attitude of Chris Pearson and DIY is really disappointing,.. especially when you consider that last year they sold $1.3mil in Thesis sales (this year, 2010 they expect that to triple!!). SO with that kind of income why can't they get it together better and make the user interface much more friendly...which would not be very hard! I've got a nice clean set up using Thesis you can see here,.. and also created a nice sales page (what a pain getting it formatted though)

        Originally Posted by xpert View Post

        Theme is great . Their main site has a "showcase" section, which you've probably already taken a look at since you've boiled the choice down to two.

        Never heard of Semiologic, but when I clicked on your link it went to a sales page rather than something substantial to show us what it can do. Can't really see what this theme is capable of by their sales page and I don't see any links to see the theme in action.

        Care to share?

        OK -- I just took the time to copy-and-paste the URLs from the testimonials on that sales page to see if those sites were done with Semiologic.

        I'm still partial to Thesis or the Studio Press themes by Brian Gardner, but that's just my opinion.

        Semiologic
        I like and was impressed with the functionality and wide range of skins and header options. Only thing I didn't like (really didnt like) was the fact that the footer had to be changed via the custom CSS sheet which is about 100 times more confusing than Thesis. I think that has been done (made complex) deliberately to force users to get the pro package which I was SHOCKED to discover was $297 (thats at least $200 too expensive). Now that I'm getting better with Thesis I'll stick with that.

        StudioPress themes,.. pound for pound easily the best themes on the internet. I love what Brian Gardner has done with them. Notice how all his design files are stock standard conforming with 99% of other WP themes out there... which is great because you don't need to spend dozens of hours re-learning a new system of coding and style that some genius introduced as a "better" alternative. Learn how to program and drive one StudioPress theme and you can drive them all,... I love that. Brian Gardner's themes are BAR FAR my favorite,..and that includes Thesis,..even though Thesis is a piece of coding brilliance!

        Cheers Guys
        Russ
        Signature

        Mvlti svnt vocati, pavci vero electi - Many are called [but] few are chosen

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        • Profile picture of the author Andrew Wilson
          Russ, if you are referring to the Semiologic 'Reloaded' theme, well, that is only a tiny part of Semiologic and should not be confused with the proper thing.

          I really like using Reloaded and have not found issues with the footer.

          As to price consider this. The other stuff is just themes, thassall. Reloaded is free and is in my experience much easier for most people to work with. (including myself and I have been working with WP since WP was wearing short trousers.)

          Semiologic Pro is what I used to describe to other people as what WordPress would be if it was a paid for product. The platform is tested and tweaked, the plugins are compatible each with the other and all work. Site rollout times are reduced greatly!
          Everything is tested and works, there is support and a community of professionals to add value and skill to both Semiologic and to your own work.

          Whilst I love using Reloaded I think it causes confusion in the marketplace as it seems that prospects see Reloaded and assume that Semiologic Pro is simply more of the same, it is not. Reloaded = Thesis = Flexibility = Themes
          Signature

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  • Profile picture of the author TelegramSam
    Hey Danny,

    Can you ease off on the sales push?

    I come here to give and share data, not get sold into something.

    Share your info if you choose too, but please don't push it into my face. There are thousands of other places I could go to if I wanted that.

    Thank you,

    Sam
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  • Profile picture of the author TelegramSam
    Thanks Danny. No problem.

    I don't know the exact selling/advertising rules of the forum, as I do neither here.

    But I see most people put things in their signature files.

    Just see what other members do.

    This way, you won't come across as a pushy salesman ;-)

    Sam
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  • Profile picture of the author Andrew Wilson
    Semiologic Pro was the first 'premium' theme I bought. In my eyes it was kinda like WordPress might be if it was a paid for product.
    Somebody else mentioned the word 'platform', exactly.

    Sites I made with Semiologic, hundreds of them, still see traffic although untouched for many months/years!

    I can see the point about appearance but I also think the simplicity is actually a benefit. I WANT folks to be able to find stuff and to just 'know' where to look. Some of the themes mentioned here are, to my old eyes, hard to use as a user (and let's forget for now the complexity of setting some of them up!)

    Craig is correct, pages back, about the importance of links and IMHO the off-page stuff is much more important than the on-page stuff but it is good to have Semiologic Pro holding up the banner for me on the on-page SEO while I get on with the off-page SEM.

    For me Semiologic Pro makes it easier to do the rest of the stuff that makes more of the difference.
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  • Profile picture of the author mobetman
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author Glenn Leader
      Originally Posted by mobetman View Post

      I own and use both Frugal and Thesis and can give you a good honest opinion of both. More people own Thesis because it's been out longer and has an active community of owners. They both are great and I think you can't go wrong with either but it really depends on what you're using them for. Here's a breakdown:

      Easy of Use - Winner > Frugal

      Frugal is easier to use, especially for newbies. Frugal's admin is cleaner and more user friendly. It also offers more built in customization options. With Thesis you'll have to get into the code to make certain changes (Be sure to download the Thesis Hooks plugin to do this). Although Thesis just upgraded to 1.6 which makes some customization easier like drop down menus, it's still not as user (especially newbie) friendly as Frugal.


      SEO - Winner > Thesis

      One of Thesis' strengths has always been it's so SEO friendly. You don't need to install the usual plugins like All-In-One SEO, etc. because it's already built into Thesis. Also, the fewer plugins, the faster your site should render - so Thesis is usually fast. Now, Frugal just upgraded to version 3.2 and now has built in SEO as well. I haven't used or tested the new SEO features and can't vouch for it. So for now Thesis is the champ here.


      Built In Customization/Website Variety - Winner > Frugal

      This may seem a strange category but one of Frugal's best assets is it's ability to create a variety of websites directly from the admin (no code digging). What do I mean? With Frugal you can create actual websites (not just blogs) because it has an option for a separate homepage and a few other page templates. So let's say you want to create a website for a small business you have, it very, very easy to do with Frugal. You can create your standard business looking (no sidebars, comments, etc) Homepage, About, Products/Services, Contact, etc. and then still have a business blog section too.


      Customization - Winner > Thesis

      If you want to make MAJOR changes, additions, etc to your website over and above the built in customization then Thesis is what you need. If you like digging into the code, Thesis is just easier to play with than Frugal (please note that I haven't tested this on the newest version of Frugal which just came out the week before this post). Just go to the Thesis website and you can see a few of the many customization people have made. So if you know your way around code Thesis may be for you.


      I hope this helps.
      Hi mobetman,

      WF rules forbid the masking of affiliate links in the way you have in this post.
      You would have stayed within WF rules if you had pointed to a review on a
      site you owned, where you can place your links.

      HTH

      Glenn

      MODERATOR Thanks, Glenn. I'll buy you a drink next week. We'll let the post stand in the 'quote' in your post as it was otherwise quite a good post.
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      • Profile picture of the author Karan Goel
        Originally Posted by Glenn Leader View Post

        Hi mobetman,

        WF rules forbid the masking of affiliate links in the way you have in this post.
        You would have stayed within WF rules if you had pointed to a review on a
        site you owned, where you can place your links.

        HTH

        Glenn
        Can't agree more.

        Karan
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  • Originally Posted by Ralf Skirr View Post

    Hi,

    I'm building a blog network and I'm looking for the perfect theme.
    Many recommend Semiologic or Thesis.

    Best Blogging Software

    Thesis Theme for WordPress

    Which do you think is better?
    Why?


    Thanks for your feedback,
    Ralf
    Interesting thread Ralf ... thanks for starting it. I'd like to share my thoughts/experience on this ...

    I use both Semiologic Pro (SLP) and Thesis and so can comment on both with some authority ...

    While I would qualify Thesis as primarily a theme layout design tool, I see Semiologic Pro as a 2-in-1 Wordpress application ... let me explain what I mean here ...

    I view SLP as a website development platform, using WordPress as the underlying CMS which has 2 components to it -

    1. A suite of integrated WordPress tools and plugins (around 70) that makes the task of building an SEO friendly website quick and easy, and

    2. A WordpPress theme that provides multiple configurability options including 18 layouts, 24 skins, 3 width options, 12 font options and 3 font size options.

    You can use Semiologic in either of the following ways -

    a. As it is with the tools and the inbuilt theme like I did on this website - InternetMarketingGateway.com

    OR

    b. Use only the SLP plugins and tools with any other Wordpress theme like I did on this website - FirstSignOfPregnancy.org

    In either case you get the power and flexibility of SLP, though I believe that you get extra 'SEO juice' if you use the SLP themes because of the way in which the theme is designed (an optimized layout which serves your content first, then the sidebars. This helps the search engines in reading and indexing your content faster, because they see it sooner.)

    I reviewed the Thesis theme and quite liked it for its flexibility and functionality. There are 2 levels of theme customization - one from within the theme options (where you simply select by 'ticking' the parameters) and the other where you have to tinker with the css code (this may be a bit challenging for a newbie or those technically challenged). What Thesis does not include are some of the power tools and plugins of SLP (eg. cache, cloner, contextual widget, inline widgets, ....).

    I really don't think you can equally compare Semiologic Pro with Thesis (or even other flex theme builders) since they serve different functions ...

    Thesis is more of a theme layout design tool while Semiologic is both - a theme layout design tool coupled with powerful website functionality tools (the suite of plugins that are integrated with SLP) ... which explains the pricing difference on both.

    If you want to read my detailed review of Semiologic Pro you will find it here. Please note that I am an affiliate for both SLP & Thesis and that the links on my blog are affiliate links! However being an affiliate does not take away my objectivity or integrity while evaluating and recommending solutions.

    Hope this helps,

    Andy
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  • Profile picture of the author Andrew Wilson
    Greg, you can do both the things you mentioned but both will require you to do a little 'customisation' and thus, for my purposes, would not be stuff I'd do.
    I am interested in getting a good looking site with good functionality up and running in a short(ish) amount of time. Thus, spending aeons on tweaks and stuff that is probably fairly marginal is likley not cost effective. Spending time on traffic building and content creation is probably much more worthwhile.

    BTW, I have now standardised on the Semiologic Reloaded theme and updated the plugins pack from my ooooold Semiologic Pro purchase. I am happy. BUT if I were starting out I'd still spend the money on the current Semiologic Pro version.
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  • Profile picture of the author RGallowitz
    Semiologic is brilliant for SEO - not because of the theme itself, but all the additional addons you get.

    Thesis is brilliant for functionality. If I would choose I would choose thesis because the customer experience is the most important part in the conversion funnel.

    Also, thesis upgrades are way better than semiologic in my opinion.
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  • Profile picture of the author JTor
    I'd go for Thesis, but I would still look around some other premium themes, such as themes from WooThemes.
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  • Profile picture of the author PaymentMaven
    I have used Thesis on one of my sites. If you know what you want to do, how bout making a list. Then you can compare Thesis with others.
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    Payment Maven Credit Card Sales Processing
    "See how to Improve your cash flow & peace of mind...guaranteed"

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  • Profile picture of the author CClassHosting
    People are missing the point..

    Semiologic is not a theme, but a bundle of 60 plugins. Sure enough it does come with some basic themes for free.

    Thesis is a theme. It CAN be used along with Semiologic (poorly branded as theme)

    In fact, Thesis on top of Semiologic is an ultimate combination.

    As a part of SEO Co-Op member, I received both for free. (legal versions)

    Installed on my website.
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    Dollar SEO Hosting - $1/C-Class IP
    Just Google "SEO Hosting"

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  • Profile picture of the author DragosRoua
    I've been using Thesis for more than 2 years on a few blogs. But out of my frustration with it I partnered with two wordpress wizards and created WPSumo (there is a WSO running right now if you're interested). I don't want to push myself or my work, but it happens that I used Thesis a lot and I was fortunate enough to be able to build something that suits me better. Will not clog the thread with a presentation of WPSumo, you can check out the WSO or the page (in my sig).

    Best.
    Signature

    Half of the WordPress framework WPSumo.
    Maker of the iAdd iPhone / iPad app (productivity & task management).
    Blogs on DragosRoua.com and contributes to Stepcase Lifehack.

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  • Profile picture of the author NetMan
    Dragos,

    Your sig link to your site directly not to a wso

    I build many wp site for clients for years, looks interesting, any review copy available?

    Best regards,

    Andre Foisy
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    **GET...** Cash Magic Funnels @ 80% OFF | PM me for the Coupon! Available for a VERY SHORT TIME ONLY!
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