Is MMO a HUGE scam? I need proof

Your conclusion is correct.

How on Earth can you possibly know this?! My own instincts, gradually refined over the last 6 years that I've been doing IM for a living, actually tell me very much the opposite, but clearly, surely, it's something that neither of us (nor anyone else reading this) can possibly know, because it's information not collated anywhere?! How could it be?

It's not worthy of another moment's use of your brainpower, Kelvin, because there isn't a way to find out, anyway.

What's certain, though, is that getting involved in MMO-related niches is the single commonest mistake that beginning marketers make, and the single commonest reason for their collective failures. The evidence for that is (a) all around us, and (b) very easy to understand.

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Klevin, that is not an accurate statement. Where did you get this statistic? According to Entrepreneur Magazine, there are more people making a living in regular markets, than in the MMO market.

Yes, the Make Money Online Market is very lucrative, but there are plenty of others that are just as lucrative if not more so. The MMO market is just a drop is the online world that is full of markets, which have thousands of niches and micro-niches underneath them.

I can tell you're not an experienced marketer (I've been full time online since 2001), you don't need a "BIG" company to make a lot of money. I started my first online venture for under $200 and have since sold that company for a very nice sum.

I started a new publishing company earlier this year for under $200 because it's mainly focused on publishing for the Kindle platform. That paid for my first couple of ebook covers and an editor.

I'm not sharing this to brag. I'm sharing this to show you that if an average guy like me can do this, almost anyone can. What's inbetween your left ear and your right ear is FAR more important than how much money you have or where you're starting from. I've been at this a long time and the older and more experienced I get, the more I realize that mindset and how you view reality is the singlest biggest factor to succeeding at ANY business.

But you're basing your conclusion on false information and misinformed premises.

Though less than 1% of my income comes from the MMO market, 99% of my online income comes from markets such as dating and personal development.

Yes, there is hope. There are PLENTY of regular folks, like you, making money online by solving problems and providing solutions to a targeted market or niche.

RoD

I'd never touch the MMO niche. Though not a perfect analogy, the MMO niche feels too much like a pyramid scheme to me. Moreover, it seems overly competitive and your likely customers aren't likely to have much disposable income anyway. Not to mention that it seems like a particularly boring way to make a living.

Regardless, of course it's possible to make money online. Mark Zuckerberg and Jeff Bezos are doing quite well for themselves last I checked.

But if you're asking whether the methods promoted by the MMO 'gurus' you're talking about make money, I really have no idea -- that's not my thing. I've never had a squeeze page; I've never done a PPC campaign. And if I were promoting "information products", I'd find it a lot easier to promote well-written, well-edited and well-reviewed books by known authors from major publishing houses than some shady-looking ebook written by someone nobody has ever heard of (and any books that I might write would definitely fall into this category).

That said, I'm guessing that at least some of the people near the top of the MMO pyramid are doing pretty well for themselves. But who cares about them? It's more important to know whether you personally get to the top of the MMO pyramid -- and whether you even want to if you could. There again, I have no idea... But my sense is that for 99.9% of people the answer is no.

Other than a misguided attempt at the MMO market when I was first starting out, I've never sold any MMO products or services. I don't think I made any money off it except for a few Adsense clicks here and there, so I'm pretty close to qualifying as someone who has never made money off MMO.

To answer your question, I can assure you there are indeed people out there on the Internet who will buy products made by "regular guys" in markets other than MMO. I sell products I've created in the form of T-Shirts, e-books and physical books and they sell very, very well. Of course there was quite a bit of a learning curve and I made a number of mistakes along the way, but I've managed to make a decent amount of money.

Whether or not people buy YOUR products depends on your ability to create products people want and whether or not you're able to figure out how to get those products in front of the right people.

In order to avoid creating a product that noone wants, do your research before creating the product. Find a hungry market, figure out whether or not you're going to be able to advertise to that market at a price that'll allow you to make a profit and then research what that market wants and needs. Create a product geared towards those wants and needs and people will probably buy it.

No niche is a scam. It's people that make individual products and or services what they are. I think you have a lot of negative and preconceived notions about making money online.

This, for example: "People who provide make money online services generally rake in a lot more cash than the average health niche marketer."

How did you arrive at this conclusion? First, health isn't a niche just like MMO isn't. Make money online covers a huge market. Health isn't a niche either. It's a multi-billion dollar market. I've got a couple of MMO offers in my sig that are 100% legit and they're not the typical MMO stuff you'd most often find here. I've made my living doing the stuff in those guides.

How do you know that MMO stuff "might work but NOWHERE near as well as these marketers claimed them to work?"

Here's another major misconception: "You need a BIG company to make a lot of money, not some squeeze page with a PPC campaign setup."

I know several one man operations that pull in upwards of three million a year. So again, where are you getting these "facts?"

You need proof that people actually buy stuff from guys like you? What does that mean? I know a guy that makes $80,000 a year selling paper airplane cutouts online. There are mom and pop operations in the million dollar neighborhood selling Amazon stuff as affiliates. There are single person operations pulling in millions selling ad space. The list is endless.

There are hundreds of thousands of people quietly making fortunes selling everything imaginable. You can buy commercial jets online if you've got the money. You can become an affiliate for jet leasing and sales. One sale can net you $50 - $60K. Where there are people that want, need and can afford things there are plenty of people around to deliver them.

I bought an MMO WSO yesterday, which is rare for me. It's excellent. The seller didn't make lofty claims about success or income because he realizes that is ENTIRELY up to the individual working the plan. There is not a single MMO product under the sun that is going to make you a nickle. You've got to do that by following instructions and executing the model. And if you're busy looking over the shoulder wondering if you've been "scammed" you'll never have enough energy to actually work the business.

There is so much opportunity out there it's crazy. There are several free online Website building programs available out there, where all one needs to do is spend some time getting proficient using easy drag and drop technology and they could be in business creating gorgeous Websites inside of a month.

I'd suggest you step away from the MMO carnival for a while and look closely at more mainstream online businesses. That might give you a more realistic perspective on things. One thing I can guarantee. If you continue to embrace the notion that MMO is a HUGE scam, you will never make a dime.

Good luck.

The problem with MMO niche is that many of the successful marketers in other niches move into MMO and have significant money to invest into the niche. As a newbie trying to swim with the big boys off the bat can be an expensive mistake!

MMO has three types:

1) The 98%: People who have never made a penny working for themselves but are trying to make money online by teaching other people how to make money.

Most of them buy more than they sell and study more than they take action. Hence, they're the ones who make the upper 1% possible.

2) The upper 1%: People who have made a lot of money doing other things, and are teaching other people to make money using those same skills.

They've been there and done it, and they're expanding their earning potential by selling information which educates and empowers others. A large portion of their clientele is the other 98%.

3) The climbing 1%: People who are learning from the upper 1%, TAKING ACTION and becoming part of the upper 1%, and the big hitters retire or move on to bigger ventures.

Add that one up.

The one obvious thing to consider is that if the MMO market was truly one big scam, there is no way this forum would exist, nor would it have existed for as long as it has.

I've been a member here for well over ten years and have personally made many friends here, many of whom started from scratch. I've seen many people start with very little, work their asses off, and anywhere from 12 to 24 months, get to the point where they not only quit their jobs, but replaced their income with a 6 figure income, even a handful who have grown their businesses to 7 figures.

The unfortunate thing about the MMO market, which also plagues other markets, is that the bad apples, the snake oil sales people, ruin it for the good folks. Don't focus on those people. Put your energy and research skills to find the good people who can show you the ropes. Good, honest business people who have integrity won't be afraid to share references with you.

Just respect their time and approach them with a good attitude and you'll be amazed at how many connections you'll make in just a few short weeks or months.

RoD

MMO is very simple but not easy.

Its more psychological than anything and its about the perceived value.

Your market wants to learn how to make money online and if you look at how many WSO there are on how to make money, theres thousands of ways.

Seth Godin wrote a book titled "All marketers are liars"

There is the truth and then there's the truth

He sums marketing in any industry as this.

"Not liars, storytellers

Just to be clear, especially if you're just joining us:
The truth is elusive. No one knows the whole truth about anything. We certainly don't know the truth about the things we buy and recommend and use.
What we do know (and what we talk about) is our story. Our story about why use, recommend or are loyal to you and your products. Our story about the origin and the impact and the utility of what we buy.
Marketing is storytelling.
The story of your product, built into your product. The ad might be part of it, the copy might be part of it, but mostly, your product and your service and your people are all part of the story.
Tell it on purpose."

In conclusion, yes mmo may look scammy to some and ethical to others who leverages stories of their own, their friends and people they've helped.

If you love NFL superbowl and watch in its entirety, its about 3 hrs long and maybe 30 minutes worth of commercial.

The perceived value is entertainment to its fullest from 2 top teams battle to the death. Then there is the tradition of superbowl commercials that people love so much, and probably more than watching the game itself.

Why?!

The brand! NFL Superbowl!

It has so much value that even the marketing commercial has its own value. Whether its a beer commercial or fast food mcdonalds, people love it because the value it gives people from watching the game.

The 80/20 rule applies in marketing that 80% value should be given to your clients and 20% is your "recommendation" or upsell of what they need.

If you are in video marketing niche for example, you will have tons of videos on youtube how to produce a commercial for your blog. So you will share your documented story of your own success and the steps you took to make it happen.

You share the tools you used as well and it so happens that these tools you are affiliated with.

Ca-ching!!!

Then you just made your first commission.

You provided a solution to the niche market how to produce a commercial and you gave them a free guide and squeezed in the tools you used and they need yo succeed.

You are essentially helping them help you succeed.

Joe

Pardon my ignorance, but what is MMO?
And about looking to see if people who buy stuff online exist... yes, it's true... and I'm one of them. Everyone starts to buy things online more and more.
It's easier and it's the future.

I'd like to add that if you look at universities these days and what they elude to - a solid education and best chance possible of a good job- you'll see colleges as the biggest "scam" of the century. Studies have proven that most undergraduate liberal arts classes provide little to no real world value,and we all know how most "general studies" students are faring out of college these days. Either way, what's promised is very far from what is delivered- and there's no refund.

Additionally, the quality of education I received at my university was mostly awful- aside from some particular classes related to my major. The professors didn't care and neither did the students in many of these classes. This was by no means an ivy league college but a top 60 national university, so not a "bad school" either.

We have to open our minds a bit and think outside of the box society has created for us- and think about other situations where we pay for something with certain claims that don't deliver, outside of a $7 information product with a 30 day return policy.

When people talk about the phrase MMO its usually because they have an issue with it... Probably because they are frustrated because they have not made money with it. People who are teaching others to do what they do online or to make money usually don't use that phrase.

MMO is not new people... Since the dawn of time there have been products that have been sold and people teaching others how to do the same thing.

It use to be Seminars, DVD, Video Cassettes, Books, etc...

Now it's just a new medium with the internet and it's no different.

There are basic things that make people online. The biggest thing would be their mindset.

Your mindset when making this thread is the wrong mindset to ever make money online.

Also too many newbies are looking for a quick way because they see others making a living...

They want to try a little bit see huge results and then invest,

instead of trying very hard for a long time building and learning

and keep going even if not seeing any results and keep going then reach success.

MMO and IM are 2 best niches one can be [some even treat them as one]. Everyone knows a lot about them and at the same time no one knows anything. Gurus everywhere, questions how do you do that - everywhere. That's perfect.

Many people who write for the MMO niche have never earned money outside that niche. In other words, all they're doing is selling others on the idea they can teach people how to earn money. If you really want to know how to earn money online, you will need to learn your techniques for yourself or from someone with proven experience, that's usually in a niche not associated with MMO.

As usual, Kay is right.

People who go on to succeed see very quickly what's really going on.

MMO niche is a very big niche. What you need to do is to focus on a few niches or one or two you are comfortable with and stick to it till you see some success.

MMO is not a huge scam, but it sure does attract a lot of scammers.

I think ebooks and Adsense are two very good proof that one can make money online.

Is this thread a joke? Almost 2015 and still doubt MMO can really works.

Whatever niche you decide to go into, I would highly suggest having a coach to guide you. That's really the biggest difference in success and failure.

i have made more money than all but probably the top 1% of people in the IM niche from the credit card market for well over 15 years now wtihout a website. Notice i said "market". I am successful because i figured out a niche within the credit card market where i could solve a problem people had and get paid pretty handsomely to do solve that problem,. ( i am under a non-compete clause so i cant have a website related to credit cards for 5 more years...lol)

I do it with a list that is much smaller than many would ever believe. I do it by sending people less than 6 emails a year. There are a lot of people making extrodinary incomes doing things online you would never dream of.

A few years ago, i built a 6 figure residual income by helping ex-cons start and build their own web hosting businesses. seriously, there are a million ways to make money online.

You really need to expand your thinking and understanding what a niche really is. The IM/MMO markets are not niches. Just like weight loss or credit cards...those are markets. the money is made by finding niches within those markets.

I'm in the MMO niche and have sold such services, but wanted to point out a couple of important things about the niche.

1. Never look for proof (screenshots etc.). First of all they can be easily faked and secondly publishing inflated screenshots has become more of a norm these days to pull in more buyers.

2. Don't get drawn to a method when someone says he made a mill overnight using it. Such "magic bullet" stuff simply don't exist. You have to put in real hard work and money to make things work in IM. So, don't look for shortcuts.

3. Don't hold the seller of a method responsible for making you money. You are paying for information - not hiring someone to make you money. Even if you learn a miniscule trick from a method you bought, that justifies the price!

So, the customer mindset needs to change. If sellers are resorting to unfair practices that's because buyers refuse to come out of dream worlds.

People are always looking for income guarantees which is another way of saying "I ain't gonna work my tail off, but want someone to blame for my laziness"!!

Not saying you are at fault here. The entire buyer community needs to change this mindset. Yes, it's also true it started out with some buyers "selling dreams" (with false promises) in the first place, but now consumers are totally buying products with wrong expectations. This needs to change.