Clickbank not processing visa

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Steve Garratt

I've just noticed that Clickbank appears to not be processing VISA cards and is cancelling VISA rebills. Has anyone else noticed this?

Nope. Visa is still in the order form. I don't think they will ever remove Visa because that could kill their business. It's not like they allow billing for online casinos/gambling so I see no reason why they would remove the most popular payment option in the world.

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Alexa Smith Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by jurojin

It's not like they allow billing for online casinos/gambling

They do allow billing for online gambling-related services (like "sports-betting tips") which some credit-card companies disallow.

They have also apparently had (ever since I've been online) some kind of special dispensation from PayPal to be allowed to process payments for some other betting-related services which - for anyone else - would appear to contravene PayPal's terms of service.

I suspect (but don't know) that their longstanding and enormous turnover, together with their record for impeccably honest trading, including their history of reliably honoring their 60-day refund-guarantee without questions, has stood them in very good stead with their own upline financial service providers, and as a result, they can effectively offer facilities which most other services couldn't.

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- bharper 10 years ago
  
  I got a notice from eVerify that they no longer RE-bill VISA recurring products.
  
  I have a ton of everify rebills so I'll be watching.
  
  I have seen companies have problems with rebilling products with merchant accounts but not with individual card companies.
  
  The reason is the company has the ability to simple bill everyone whenever they want and then shut the doors.
  
  The solution has been to require large reserves for companies that rebill subscription products.
  
  I doubt CLickBank will need to do that but I'll bet they will solve the problem.
  
  Too much money on the table to pass...
  
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Steve Garratt

10 years ago

Clickbank support have just confirmed that they no longer accept VISA transactions for a "number of our vendors in the Self-Help-Background Investigation niche". All subscriptions have been cancelled !!!

They said that they "have their reasons" and "realize this can be frustrating"

I would say it's frustrating. They have just cancelled half of my recurring subscriptions some of which have been with me for over 2 years !!!

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Alexa Smith

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Steve Garratt

They said that they "have their reasons"

My guess is that that will be ClickBank-speak for "Visa won't allow us to process these any more".

In these days of increased regulation and caution (brought about by the undeniable, consistent, longstanding refusal of the interent marketing community collectively to regulate itself adequately), people's upline financial service providers are gradually getting more jittery. I think you can be sure that ClickBank hasn't done this at their own initiative.

Frustrating, indeed ... thanks for bringing it up here, Steve.

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Steve Garratt

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

My guess is that that will be ClickBank-speak for "Visa won't allow us to process these any more".

In these days of increased regulation and caution (brought about by the undeniable, consistent, longstanding refusal of the interent marketing community collectively to regulate itself adequately), people's upline financial service providers are gradually getting more jittery. I think you can be sure that ClickBank hasn't done this at their own initiative.

Frustrating, indeed ... thanks for bringing it up here, Steve.

Hi Alexa,

With Google algorithm changes, Yahoo voices and Squidoo closures and now Clickbank cancelling half what was left of my revenue without so much as a heads up I think my current model may no longer be viable.

So does anyone want to hire an electronics and software engineer currently specialising in Arduino and Raspberry Pi? It looks like I have some spare time.

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DubDubDubDot

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Steve Garratt

Clickbank support have just confirmed that they no longer accept VISA transactions for a "number of our vendors in the Self-Help-Background Investigation niche". All subscriptions have been cancelled !!!

What exactly is Self-Help-Background Investigation?

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10kaday

10 years ago

yep its sad they are no longer processing it

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affiliatez

10 years ago

Originally Posted by 10kaday

yep its sad they are no longer processing it

Which official announcement is for this news?

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Sweersz

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Steve Garratt

CB aren't simply cancelling subscriptions they are now refunding VISA payments. I'm currently making a loss every day. Sadly after 8 good years with Clickbank I am taking my traffic elsewhere.

It bites so bad... I wonder what happened?

Originally Posted by affiliatez

Which official announcement is for this news?

None so far, I just got information from a ticket I opened. It was extremely disappointing to say the least. Here it is:

_____

"Thank you for your inquiry! We have our reasons why we don't allow VISA transactions for a very small number of our vendors in the Self-Help-Background Investigation niche, and existing subscription were cancelled. We won't allow Standard Product (one-time charges) via VISA for these vendors either. We realize this can be frustrating, but accepting credit cards over the Internet is a dangerous business. These measures are in place to protect our business and that of our clients. Please let me know if I can be of further assistance!"
_____

I wonder if the affected vendors will pull the plug on ClickBank? Visa has a tremendous amount of market share in the payment processing industry. In my opinion, it wouldn't be a wise choice to continue to promote these products with Visa cards being rejected as I'm already seeing a decline in sales.

"Lifelong commissions", yeah right. I have no faith in that claim anymore. What's going to happen tomorrow? Will ClickBank stop supporting Mastercard and cancel and refund all our Mastercard subscriptions? How about American Express or PayPal? This is really bad. Don't trust the system.

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Shane12

10 years ago

I guess it is just rebills because it is still on the order form for one time purchase products I promote (including those where they are no longer accepting it on rebills). Lost a large chunk of my subscriptions. Hopefully people have multiple payment methods that they can use for future sales, but it's a big hit for now losing subscribers that like Steve in some cases I have had for years. I wonder if they were offered an alternative payment method or just had the plug pulled and will now resubscribe through the vendor's site directly. I didn't even notice until I looked at my active subscription count because I have had good sales over the last few days still.

Sucks that I lost those sales, but I can't begrudge Clickbank too much. They have been very good to me since Google started slapping me around.

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Sweersz

10 years ago

Most of us have been spending so much money via PPC campaigns to get these subscriptions knowing that we'll make money in the long run and then bang, most of our subscriptions gone *snaps fingers* like that.

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Steve Garratt

10 years ago

CB aren't simply cancelling subscriptions they are now refunding VISA payments. I'm currently making a loss every day. Sadly after 8 good years with Clickbank I am taking my traffic elsewhere.

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Wayne

10 years ago

I used to promote products in the Background Investigation niche several years ago. The sales were crazy, people would buy these products like mad, but the refund rate was also pretty high. I didn't feel good about continuing to promote these with the refund rate the way it was. I don't know if Clickbank is cancelling rebills on all products with Visa, or just with certain products, but I can understand why there would be a problem in the Background Investigation niche.

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ClickBank

10 years ago

First, thank you for posting this thread. We understand how actions we take in our business can create concern, especially when transparency into those actions is, by necessity, limited. You can be assured that ClickBank is continuing to retail to consumers using VISA for standard and subscription products across the globe (as well as PayPal and every other major card brand); there has been no interruption or removal of this capability in our network.

That said, for a small number of vendors, we have taken steps to alter the way we sell their products to consumers. Protecting consumers and our clients' business is essential to protecting our business. 99.9% of our 30,000+ vendors are not impacted by this change, though we recognize that it does impact affiliates who may have revenue streams attached to those vendors. This is regrettable, but necessary. Our strength as a trusted brand for clients and consumers is important to protect and we will ensure long term viability for your business with a proactive risk management program.

Thanks,
The ClickBank Team

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seofreedom

10 years ago

Originally Posted by ClickBank

First, thank you for posting this thread. We understand how actions we take in our business can create concern, especially when transparency into those actions is, by necessity, limited. You can be assured that ClickBank is continuing to retail to consumers using VISA for standard and subscription products across the globe (as well as PayPal and every other major card brand); there has been no interruption or removal of this capability in our network.

That said, for a small number of vendors, we have taken steps to alter the way we sell their products to consumers. Protecting consumers and our clients’ business is essential to protecting our business. 99.9% of our 30,000+ vendors are not impacted by this change, though we recognize that it does impact affiliates who may have revenue streams attached to those vendors. This is regrettable, but necessary. Our strength as a trusted brand for clients and consumers is important to protect and we will ensure long term viability for your business with a proactive risk management program.

Thanks,
The ClickBank Team

Very easy for you to cut the affiliate customers ! You know what losses you caused to some affiliates who used PPC based on your long term statistics? How about to give compensation to the affiliates whom you cut the their recurring customers ?

You just prove that you can't be trusted.

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seobro

10 years ago

Hi guys, I use to do business with CB years ago. Well, I believe they are even worse an pay pal, but that is my opinion. Finally, the truth is coming out and that is super. Why didn't they send letters to people saying -

your product does not meet our guidelines - sorry.

OK so is it just me. They pretend there is no problem, and finally we get to the truth of what is going on. I see plenty of gambling books on amazon. They review a book before you can put it in their area.

What we are asking is why did they allow this to go on many years... and suddenly out of the blue clamp down on us. Whose idea was it any way. Did they get an angry call from visa?

Please clue us in on what is going on. Most of us need to understand what they allow now. Also, who is running this show - visa.

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Steve Garratt 10 years ago

Originally Posted by seobro

Please clue us in on what is going on. Most of us need to understand what they allow now. Also, who is running this show - visa.

Yes I would like to know this too.
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Shane12

10 years ago

Ouch. Hopefully this will stabilize (albeit at a much lower base) over the next couple months as this issue ages, but I'm slightly negative for the week (before even factoring in expenses). I think there is still value in PPC spending, though I do worry about any potential domino effect from this.

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Steve Garratt

10 years ago

Clickbank is now refunding US VISA payments for recurring products that were purchased and cancelled after the first payment in August.

Is Clickbank going to refund every VISA transaction in my account for the past 8 years?

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seofreedom

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Steve Garratt

Clickbank is now refunding US VISA payments for recurring products that were purchased and cancelled after the first payment in August.

Is Clickbank going to refund every VISA transaction in my account for the past 8 years?

Clickbank proved not to give a F**K about their affiliates. They just took 80% of my E- Verify clients, just like that.

I would stay away from them.

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DubDubDubDot 10 years ago

Originally Posted by seofreedom

They just took 80% of my E- Verify clients, just like that.

What exactly were you selling?
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- seofreedom 10 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by DubDubDubDot
  
  What exactly were you selling?
  
  eVerify - I had like 400 active subscribers, stayed with less than a 100 because they felt like canceling Visa.
  
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WillR

10 years ago

Sadly this is why you just can't rely too much on one platform or service for most of your income. This type of thing will always happen no matter how nicely you play the game.

Diversify diversify diversify!

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Alexa Smith

Banned 10 years ago

I completely appreciate that for the few people affected by this, it's incredibly unfortunate and must be something of a nightmare. But at the same time, guys, let's mention again that this doesn't affect the products/affiliates of 99.9% of ClickBank's tens of thousands of vendors.

It would be a shame indeed for people to glance quickly at the thread and mistakenly imagine that "ClickBank isn't processing Visa any more" - when that's not true.

I suspect this was something imposed on ClickBank by Visa, and that they regarded it as pretty unfortunate themselves, but couldn't actually do anything about it? Being a retailer, themselves, they're clearly subject to the whims and changing impositions of their own upline financial service providers, as any retailer is, you know? Let's not try to pin the "blame" on ClickBank, here? For these purposes, they're only an intermediary - a retailer.

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Steve Garratt

10 years ago

Yes I am one of the unfortunate people affected by this and yes it has had a devastating effect on my business. By all accounts what is happening is only affecting a small number of vendors and Clickbank are now not processing US VISA for these vendors (Everywhere else appears to be ok though). In addition they are cancelling subscriptions and refunding payments retrospectively.

As Alexa points out this is only affecting a small number of us right now but what are they going to do next? Not a single one of the affected affiliates nor the vendors themselves had any warning from Clickbank that they were about to do this. They have not explained to anyone why they have implemented these seemingly arbitrary rules so there is no guarantee that the policy will not be extended in some way. If I were one of the not affected Clickbank affiliates reading this then I hope that I would be taking steps to diversify my business quickly.

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

I completely appreciate that for the few people affected by this, it's incredibly unfortunate and must be something of a nightmare. But at the same time, guys, let's mention again that this doesn't affect the products/affiliates of 99.9% of ClickBank's tens of thousands of vendors.

It would be a shame indeed for people to glance quickly at the thread and mistakenly imagine that "ClickBank isn't processing Visa any more" - when that's not true.

.

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forthright 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

But at the same time, guys, let's mention again that this doesn't affect the products/affiliates of 99.9% of ClickBank's tens of thousands of vendors.

The overall percentage might be small Alexa but we're talking vendors in the top 20 overall on the network for transactions. Premier program vendor accounts generating huge revenue. Refund rates were at normal levels. By eliminating a handful of Affliates over-promising service we could have greatly reduced levels but they decided to take action on everything we had on there in a short period of time. Clickbank did not give us much of an explanation and that hurt considering our long business history with them.

It's hard to believe that more drastic changes on Clickbank aren't eminent. I happen to be the Affiliate Manger for all these products, fortunately we we are now utilizing our accounts on other Affiliate platforms. Once the smoke clears we will be back on track and moving forward. Feel free to contact me for any further information. Some of you in this thread who I have worked closely with for years I have already spoken with privately.
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Wayne

10 years ago

I've seen 2 different people in this thread mention everify. I downloaded the clickbank marketplace back when they were giving star ratings and saved it in a mysql table. If this is the vendor I am thinking it is, they had a star rating of 3. This is why I wish Clickbank would bring back the star rating so we could choose products with a 5 star rating to promote. Otherwise we have no idea how well a vendor is really doing. Like I said earlier, I used to promote background investigation products in the past, they sold like crazy but the refunds were quite high also. I never promoted the everify product, don't know if they were even on Clickbank back when I used to promote these type of products, so don't know what the refund rate would have been on this product. But Visa probably received a lot of refunds and chargebacks on certain products so are putting a stop to it. They would do this to any retailer, not just Clickbank.

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seofreedom

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Wayne

I've seen 2 different people in this thread mention everify. I downloaded the clickbank marketplace back when they were giving star ratings and saved it in a mysql table. If this is the vendor I am thinking it is, they had a star rating of 3. This is why I wish Clickbank would bring back the star rating so we could choose products with a 5 star rating to promote. Otherwise we have no idea how well a vendor is really doing. Like I said earlier, I used to promote background investigation products in the past, they sold like crazy but the refunds were quite high also. I never promoted the everify product, don't know if they were even on Clickbank back when I used to promote these type of products, so don't know what the refund rate would have been on this product. But Visa probably received a lot of refunds and chargebacks on certain products so are putting a stop to it. They would do this to any retailer, not just Clickbank.

Wayne,

eVerify was one of the top selling products in Clickbank. The refund rate was below 10% which is normal.

I know people from eVerify, Clickbank just screwed them without any notice.
Its a bad business practice which shows a lot about this company.

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ra2

10 years ago

Clickbank refunded everify order with VISA card payment from August today.

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ra2

10 years ago

clickbank refunded pronich4 product today! I lost my money.

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Wayne

10 years ago

Just because they are a top selling product doesn't mean there might not be problems with the product. Many of the background investigation products I used to promote a few years ago were also top selling products, sold like crazy but the refund rate was also not good. I didn't feel good promoting products with a high refund rate even if they were selling like crazy. I did make a lot of money while I was promoting them. Maybe everify didn't have a high refund rate, I don't know because I never promoted that product, but it could be that products in a certain category have more problems than others so Visa is going after all of the products in that category. When they had the star rating, the products with 4 and 5 stars were the better products to promote, don't know why they got rid of it.

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Alexa Smith

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Wayne

I didn't feel good promoting products with a high refund rate even if they were selling like crazy.

Refund rates are determined mostly by affiliate behavior/pre-selling methods.

It's true that in some areas (e.g. MMO-related, betting-related and forex-related) the products do, collectively, have slightly higher-than-average refund-rates because of the nature of their sales pages, and the fact that some of them are crap, but products that incur high refund-rates across the board are swiftly removed from the Marketplace by ClickBank, because if the refund-rate is above a certain proportion, the administrative and transactional costs of handling the refunds will outweigh the 7.5% they make on the other, non-refunded ones. So those situations are often temporary.

Some affiliates have high refund-rates for some products, while other affiliates have very low refund-rates for those same products.

Some affiliates promoting multiple products across multiple niches tend to have high refund-rates for almost every product they promote, while other affiliates similarly promoting multiple products across multiple niches have refund-rates around 0.5% or even lower for everything they promote. It's the affiliates who determine this, for the most part. Someone else's refund-rates don't have to any relevance to your refund-rates at all. "Just saying".

.

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Wayne

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

Refund rates are determined mostly by affiliate behavior/pre-selling methods.

It's true that in some areas (e.g. MMO-related, betting-related and forex-related) the products do, collectively, have slightly higher-than-average refund-rates because of the nature of their sales pages, and the fact that some of them are crap, but products that incur high refund-rates across the board are swiftly removed from the Marketplace by ClickBank, because if the refund-rate is above a certain proportion, the administrative and transactional costs of handling the refunds will outweigh the 7.5% they make on the other, non-refunded ones. So those situations are often temporary.

Some affiliates have high refund-rates for some products, while other affiliates have very low refund-rates for those same products.

Some affiliates promoting multiple products across multiple niches tend to have high refund-rates for almost every product they promote, while other affiliates similarly promoting multiple products across multiple niches have refund-rates around 0.5% or even lower for everything they promote. It's the affiliates who determine this, for the most part. Someone else's refund-rates don't have to any relevance to your refund-rates at all. "Just saying".

.

When I was promoting these background investigation sites, it was back in the days when we could advertise on Adwords and send the traffic directly to the vendors site. Almost all of these sites made the product sound better than they truly were, most of them were just links to other sites to help with the background investigations. They didn't really have a database of information on people themselves. I didn't do any pre-selling that hyped the product, there own sales pages did this. This was back around 1999-2005. Some of these products are still on Clickbank. And they did sell like crazy (along with 15-20% refunds), even though I was just direct linking to the vendors site from Adwords. They promised you could find out anything about anyone with a one time fee purchasing the product. There are sites that are legitimate, but you need to pay for each background check and not a one time fee to find out anything about anyone. It could be that the bad sites are ruining it for the good sites in this niche, and Visa is just going after all of them. I've since moved on to other things and no longer promote products in this niche so they may have improved some since then. I know you believe 100% in the list and don't think direct linking works, and I believe the list is a better method also, but I do not believe that direct linking to the vendors site doesn't work, it has worked for me and many others.

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Alexa Smith

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Wayne

This was back around 1999-2005.

Originally Posted by Wayne

I do not believe that direct linking to the vendors site doesn't work, it has worked for me and many others.

Past tense noted! (I think you'd perhaps agree that that's no longer realistic, overall, in 2014?).

.

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Wayne

10 years ago

Yes, I agree 100% that direct linking does not work. Means less competition for me.

Adwords has definitely changed since then, but there are always other options.

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Alexa Smith Banned 10 years ago

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Alexa Smith

Banned 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Wayne

Looks like Clickbank is cleaning up their marketplace in this category.

Yes - I'm sure. As part of a continually ongoing process.

The number of "make money online" products is also a fraction of what it used to be.

Originally Posted by Wayne

Yes, I agree 100% that direct linking does not work. Means less competition for me.

Well, I'll certainly be happy if you can only convince all my own direct competitors to use direct-linking.

But in reality, I suspect most of them have probably worked out that paying for traffic and not even attempting to retain any of it would be tantamount to trying to run the bath by opening the taps fully (while paying per drop for the water), but without bothering to put the plug in the hole first. After all, it's not as if many people often buy a ClickBank product at their first visit to its sales page. And a lot of them might also wonder, if it's viable to do that, why all those vendors are paying us 75% of the money just for providing the traffic, rather than simply doing that themselves and being paid four times as much from each sale.

.

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Wayne

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

Yes - I'm sure. As part of a continually ongoing process.
Well, I'll certainly be happy if you can only convince all my own direct competitors to use direct-linking.

But in reality, I suspect most of them have probably worked out that paying for traffic and not even attempting to retain any of it would be tantamount to trying to run the bath by opening the taps fully (while paying per drop for the water), but without bothering to put the plug in the hole first. After all, it's not as if many people often buy a ClickBank product at their first visit to its sales page. And a lot of them might also wonder, if it's viable to do that, why all those vendors are paying us 75% of the money just for providing the traffic, rather than simply doing that themselves and being paid four times as much from each sale.

.

I'm not saying it's a bad idea to have a list and retain the traffic. You've made a lot of helpful posts on the forum and for the most part I agree with what you say (with the amount of posts you have you must spend a lot of time on this forum).

But I believe in multiple methods of promotion and if I can make some extra money by direct linking also, then I don't see that as bad. Just because you haven't tried it doesn't mean it doesn't work. There are many ways to do promotion, and retaining your traffic should be at the top of this list nowadays, but that doesn't mean we can't also use other methods. Just because I mention direct linking, that doesn't mean adwords, that definitely doesn't work like it used to in the past. Nothing stays the same for long in the internet world. It's viable for vendors because they can make more money if they have several people driving traffic from sources that they may not get on their own.
I spent more time on this forum yesterday than I should have, so will leave it at that and won't be back today, have other things to do (we've kind of gone off topic on this thread anyway).

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Wayne

10 years ago

I just went to the Clickbank marketplace and see that they have removed a bunch of these background investigation sites from their marketplace. I don't know when these were removed, but my last update of the marketplace which was in September or October showed 28 products in this category (and I know there used to be many more than that in the past), now there are only 11 total listings showing. Looks like Clickbank is cleaning up their marketplace in this category.

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jamecater

10 years ago

CB aren't simply cancelling subscriptions they are now refunding VISA payments. I'm currently making a loss every day. Sadly after 8 good years with Clickbank I am taking my traffic elsewhere.

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Steve Garratt

10 years ago

Originally Posted by jamecater

CB aren't simply cancelling subscriptions they are now refunding VISA payments. I'm currently making a loss every day. Sadly after 8 good years with Clickbank I am taking my traffic elsewhere.

Yes I can confirm that and I've just had an email from Clickbank stating that the products that have provided a living for me for many years are being discontinued altogether on Monday 17th November. They haven't said whether they intend to cancel the remaining subscriptions or not at that time. As it is, my account is very close to going negative with all the refunds.

I heard a rumor that this is all a result of Clickbank changing hands recently. Can anyone confirm this?

All my traffic is now diverted through an alternative network.

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ulianov

10 years ago

Some products were cancelled Visa for security purpose, like reverse phone number product. But the others still got Visa payment

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Clickbank not processing visa

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