Should some people just quit internet marketing?

51 replies
Everywhere I look online, especially on forums, there are 'beginner' marketers asking the same basic questions and not accepting advice or even putting the most basic advice (such as starting an email list) into action. And, you have to wonder if these people are really interested in making money in internet marketing or merely dabbling with no intention of real success.

I don't know what harm these dabblers do for the world of internet marketing (other than to provide a distraction on marketing forums) but they are really not doing themselves any real favors by pursuing the marketing life if they can't even put a simple plan into motion.

What is your view on dabblers, or those people who are all talk and no action in internet marketing?
#internet #marketing #people #quit
  • Profile picture of the author JackHawk
    There's a certain inertia to the disbelief they can actually achieve what they're reading about so they look for more affirmation (not that it's necessarily any better proof), maybe they'll never find enough to actually get started.

    Or the quest for the magic bullet, fire once for infinite success forever!
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  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
    Banned
    I agree with some of your perspectives here, Samuel, but disagree with others.

    Originally Posted by Samuel Adams View Post

    Everywhere I look online, especially on forums, there are 'beginner' marketers asking the same basic questions and not accepting advice or even putting the most basic advice (such as starting an email list) into action. And, you have to wonder if these people are really interested in making money in internet marketing or merely dabbling with no intention of real success.
    I agree. Some of them are really interested, I think, but just aren't well-suited to it, at all, and you do have to wonder; yes.

    Originally Posted by Samuel Adams View Post

    I don't know what harm these dabblers do for the world of internet marketing (other than to provide a distraction on marketing forums)
    I think they do quite a bit of harm, actually. Not deliberately, of course. But they tend to be the ones who "copy things that don't work at all", and their output tends - overall - I think, to be on the scammy and spammy side, so they're actually doing us a real disservice. It's partly because of their activities that we have the collective reputation, as internet marketers, that we "enjoy". (Though if you want to look at that problem in terms of "blame", in my opinion the "blame" should generally fall on the people teaching/encouraging them, by feeding/selling them nonsensical misinformation.)

    Originally Posted by Samuel Adams View Post

    they are really not doing themselves any real favors by pursuing the marketing life if they can't even put a simple plan into motion.
    Here I don't quite agree. I agree that they don't put into motion a simple plan that can work and build them a business which will grow and continue to provide them with income, but I don't think - for the most part - that it's their inability to do that, that's the main problem: I think it's their inability to learn how to do that, which in turn stems from their inability to distinguish between sense and nonsense.

    Originally Posted by Samuel Adams View Post

    What is your view on dabblers, or those people who are all talk and no action in internet marketing?
    This is where I agree with you least, to be honest.

    I think that "perpetually setting off in the wrong direction" is an overwhelmingly bigger, more common and more serious problem to this group of people than "taking no action".

    I think most of them take plenty of action.

    They just don't take action that's going to work out.

    Because (a) they have no judgement (who does, when they start?); (b) they can't distinguish between advice offered by people who are incentivized to sell/offer advice and advice offered by people who are making their livings from having acted on the advice they're offering and are selling/promoting nothing at all to the people to whom they offer it; (c) they copy things that don't work and can't work because they're based on fundamental misunderstandings; and (d) although they take plenty of action, it's pretty much a waste of time for them, because it's all action toward building systems that have come right out of the Urban Myth School of Internet Marketing.

    A small minority of people manage to correct all that, learn and move on from it, put it all behind them and become very successful.

    The overhwelming majority don't.

    I think that's partly about "educability", but there's actually quite a lot of plain luck involved in it, as well. Instinctively, I've always agreed with and sympathized with the people who always say that "you make your own luck", but there's also some "real"/"random" luck involved in this, as well. I think.

    Bottom line: yes - I agree that some people should quit internet marketing specifically, and I also contend that (more generally) most of those same people should perhaps quit the idea of setting up, building and running their own businesses at all. It really doesn't suit everyone.

    .
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  • Profile picture of the author TazD
    Maturity is a huge factor.
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  • Profile picture of the author gluckspilz
    Sigh... This is just life...

    How do you get a six pack or lose weight or a slim body?

    Let me guess...

    1. Proper Diet
    2. Proper Exercise
    3. Proper Workout

    We ALL know that right? Yet, once we get into the phase of "I'm going to lose weight" the first thing HUMANS do is look for information on How tos...

    Same goes with the dating industry. If anyone has promoted dating offers or have done market research on them. You will notice that some of the "Tips & Strategies" are ..

    1. Be Confident
    2. Dress Neatly
    3. Shower + Smell Nice

    All of these are obvious right? Same goes with Internet Marketer...

    The problem is not "Some people should just QUIT!" The problem all starts with their commitment!

    "Secrets of the Millionaire Mind" by T. Harv Eker said something like.. A decision is NOT good enough. You need to make a COMMITMENT! That's what these guys are lacking..
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    • Profile picture of the author Sebastian Gomez
      Originally Posted by gluckspilz View Post

      Sigh... This is just life...

      How do you get a six pack or lose weight or a slim body?

      Let me guess...

      1. Proper Diet
      2. Proper Exercise
      3. Proper Workout

      We ALL know that right? Yet, once we get into the phase of "I'm going to lose weight" the first thing HUMANS do is look for information on How tos...

      Same goes with the dating industry. If anyone has promoted dating offers or have done market research on them. You will notice that some of the "Tips & Strategies" are ..

      1. Be Confident
      2. Dress Neatly
      3. Shower + Smell Nice

      All of these are obvious right? Same goes with Internet Marketer...

      The problem is not "Some people should just QUIT!" The problem all starts with their commitment!

      "Secrets of the Millionaire Mind" by T. Harv Eker said something like.. A decision is NOT good enough. You need to make a COMMITMENT! That's what these guys are lacking..
      Ill have to agree with you in this one. Most people do know the secret to being successful online. Off course there are some people that don't know where to start but for those who do know, it is all based on your commitment.

      If you want traffic, then make a daily SEO post and create a video for your channel! Getting results does take some time but it is definitely possible. Those people who quit is because they have a "get rich in a day mindset".

      When I first started out I was making NOTHING for the first 3 months. But I was not thinking in the short term. I focused in the long term and how much money I was going to be able to make by the end of that year. After working my ass off for a consistent period of time I saw rewards coming in.

      Making money online is VERY possible. It all depends on what you to get it.
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  • Profile picture of the author abrahamkornel
    Banned
    I also agree that most of them is just not stated for this topic of work. Looking just to make money the easiest way possible - which sometimes can work out - but they are not doing quality work as you say....and just overwhelming the internet
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  • Profile picture of the author salegurus
    This reminds me of one of my least favorite lines on IM forums, "Never Give Up"...
    Are some people just regurgitating this worn out quote because they want to reassure others or themselves?

    In the real world of owning a B&M business there comes a time when you have to take stock and if things are not working out you cut your losses and move on. I have started a few businesses some worked and some did not, i did not hold on to the failures pumping in more money and time hoping for a miraculous turn around.
    You close them down and try something else.

    So why is it different with IM, why do some people hang on to this BS notion that given enough time everyone will succeed. No, not everyone will succeed just like in the real world, so why give false hope.

    Maybe it's because the entry barrier is so low that any nitwit with a pc and internet connection can start a blogger blog, throw in a few articles with Affiliate links and tell themselves that they now run a "business"...

    Anyway to cut a long rambling story short, No This Is Not For Everyone and Yes Some People Should Cut Their Losses And Quit...
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    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.

    ― George Carlin
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  • Profile picture of the author nysurrahman
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    • Profile picture of the author salegurus
      Originally Posted by nysurrahman View Post

      I really dislike discussion message that does not give benefit. I especially try to help people through my message.
      Yeah, judging by your insightful response i can see you are a giver
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      Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.

      ― George Carlin
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  • Profile picture of the author Phil Wilkinson
    One thing that adds to the problem is the "Gurus" making outlandish claims of push-button, one-click success, by buying their product, and the newbies believe the copy, and get caught up in Shiny Object Syndrome.

    The steady stream of such products keeps many newbies in that trap of thinking that there's gotta be something out there that just requires a click of the mouse to start making a fortune...so they keep looking and looking, and never get started with any one thing, and sticking to it.

    One of the hardest things for a newbie has to be not knowing who to listen to; who is giving the right advice, and who is just after their money.

    Maybe they should get out of IM, but I can't help but feel sorry for someone who gets caught in that trap.

    We can't make someone else listen...and we can't make someone quit, even if they do end up making the rest look bad.

    The best we can do is try to steer others in the right direction by setting a good example....being ethical and honest, providing value with products we create, and offering good advice to newbies, like getting started building a list right from the beginning, and stop chasing shiny objects.
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  • Profile picture of the author rbianco68
    Originally Posted by Samuel Adams View Post

    Everywhere I look online, especially on forums, there are 'beginner' marketers asking the same basic questions and not accepting advice or even putting the most basic advice (such as starting an email list) into action.
    Well, I am one of these persons that you clearly abhor. I have made strides in learning to make a living via Internet Marketing, working part-time (and very, very long hours) learning via trial-and-error.

    I have learned some amazing lessons myself, and have wasted a lot of time due to faults of my own.

    The problem lies in the fact that everyone wants to sell the "secrets" that will get me profitable faster, and in my experience the secrets have been a waste of time and money. I have learned more on my own, yet after a few years of hard-extremely dedicated work, I have around a dozen websites that are making about $5-10 daily in revenue, which sucks bad.

    But should I spend more money for a sleazy e-book, or get-rich-quick scheme that isn't going to work? I am about to give up, however as it has been several years and I have been doubling my income every six months, it started out very slow as you can imagine, now doubling from $1, to $2, to $4, to $8 daily. My earnings have been accelerating, meaning the first year I barely doubled income, second year doubled it in six-months, third year doubled in 8 months (slower) but these sites run themselves earning income from organic traffic 24x7. Why should I give up just because it might take me ten years to reach the point of having a sustaining business?

    I don't know the answer to the question, but I don't believe that there are many people who are sincere about helping others in this business, so we are stuck learning by trial and error which is slow.

    Why can't you respect us for sticking with it and realizing that it could take five or ten years to reach the point I consider success? I understand that we don't make you proud, but some of us are in desperate situations, weeks from being homeless, and staying up day-and-night just to make it happen.

    So trust is the problem. Did you achieve success yourself without any guidance from others? If so, then I am proud of you because I now how hard this is. I will likely be out of the business soon, not by choice so you won't have to deal with us embarrassing people (or one more of them anymore).

    You may consider me a dabbler, but I have poured my blood sweat and tears into what I've done to date, and it isn't enough so I need to pour more. Failing is not an option. Now if you would be so kind as to tell us blind, or useless souls without offering some product then I could understand how you'd be upset.

    I am only killing myself, and my family not you. I am beginning to learn that the only way to make it in this business is to sell junk, I hope that I am wrong because I do not have a desire to sell junk even if it means having no home or life.

    I'm sorry if I misunderstood you but your post was hurtful for someone who has been trying hard, sacrificing sleep, food and life in search of the right combination of tasks to complete.

    I would go back to computer programming to my six-figure income however the Obama administration is doing more than auditing Tea Party Patriots, but they are black-balling fortune 100 developers that are Libertarian leaning or Republican. I never thought the government would stop me from working (first time since I was 14 years old over 25 years ago) for more than one week (vacation) with no bench time.

    I will gladly do programming for anyone who is really willing to help someone who is willing to do whatever it takes to feed his family.

    ** edited: I didn't even bother fixing the grammar and rambling text, but wanted to apologize for it, not usually my style, but am on the second sleepless night trying to pay the bills.

    Regards,
    Rich
    - new member today so I hope I did not come across the wrong way. sorry if I did.
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    Desperate AdSense Entrepreneur weeks from homeless, needing to triple AdSense from $5 daily to $15-20 daily to survive. I have huge mailing lists, and can program (professionally)

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    • Profile picture of the author kilgore
      Originally Posted by gluckspilz View Post

      You need to make a COMMITMENT! That's what these guys are lacking..
      Sorry but this is complete B.S. There are plenty of people who fail in business who are very committed. Consider this: 3 out of 4 venture-backed startups fail (Source: The Venture Capital Secret: 3 Out of 4 Start-Ups Fail - WSJ). That's 75%! And these are not untalented, unskilled, unresourced people spending a few hours in their pajamas reading the WF and trying to get people to click on their affiliate links for some shady product that nobody really wants or needs. These are business people, I.T. pros and other very, very skilled professions. They have teams and products that are at least good enough to attract investment -- no small feat in itself -- so already they're probably better off than 99% of other new businesses.

      But these businesses don't fail because of lack of commitment. Sometimes, their ideas really weren't good enough. Sometimes their teams weren't good enough. Sometimes the numbers didn't add up when they tried to monetize. Sometimes, they got smashed by the competition. And yes, (as Alexa so astutely said) sometimes they were just unlucky. I know because I've worked at startups that failed. Believe me, we were committed and worked liked dogs. But one day the money ran out and that was it.

      Even in the areas that you mentioned -- weight loss and dating -- there will be people who simply cannot succeed no matter their commitment. Some people just have a genetic disposition to being heavy. Some people have a genetic disposition to be repulsive to potential mates. Some people are just unlucky and meet the wrong people.

      Yes, by working hard and being committed you can increase your chances of success, but even in weight loss and dating, those chances will never be 100%. And in starting a new business -- whether a high tech startup or a spammy MMO business -- your chances will always be much, much lower.

      Unfortunately some people don't have the talent.
      Some people don't have the skills.
      Some people don't have the luck.

      Commitment may be a necessary precondition to success, but don't delude yourself that it's a sufficient one.
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      • Profile picture of the author pauljones99
        Beware of anyone saying "effort" is all it takes. 100% wrong.

        1) Timing
        2) Competition
        3) Black swan events
        4) Luck

        Originally Posted by kilgore View Post

        Sorry but this is complete B.S. There are plenty of people who fail in business who are very committed. Consider this: 3 out of 4 venture-backed startups fail (Source: The Venture Capital Secret: 3 Out of 4 Start-Ups Fail - WSJ). That's 75%! And these are not untalented, unskilled, unresourced people spending a few hours in their pajamas reading the WF and trying to get people to click on their affiliate links for some shady product that nobody really wants or needs. These are business people, I.T. pros and other very, very skilled professions. They have teams and products that are at least good enough to attract investment -- no small feat in itself -- so already they're probably better off than 99% of other new businesses.

        But these businesses don't fail because of lack of commitment. Sometimes, their ideas really weren't good enough. Sometimes their teams weren't good enough. Sometimes the numbers didn't add up when they tried to monetize. Sometimes, they got smashed by the competition. And yes, (as Alexa so astutely said) sometimes they were just unlucky. I know because I've worked at startups that failed. Believe me, we were committed and worked liked dogs. But one day the money ran out and that was it.

        Even in the areas that you mentioned -- weight loss and dating -- there will be people who simply cannot succeed no matter their commitment. Some people just have a genetic disposition to being heavy. Some people have a genetic disposition to be repulsive to potential mates. Some people are just unlucky and meet the wrong people.

        Yes, by working hard and being committed you can increase your chances of success, but even in weight loss and dating, those chances will never be 100%. And in starting a new business -- whether a high tech startup or a spammy MMO business -- your chances will always be much, much lower.

        Unfortunately some people don't have the talent.
        Some people don't have the skills.
        Some people don't have the luck.

        Commitment may be a necessary precondition to success, but don't delude yourself that it's a sufficient one.
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        • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
          Originally Posted by gluckspilz View Post

          In fact, I challenge anyone who is successful as a marketer to tell me some skills they have that average ordinary people can't learn...
          Maybe I'm getting cynical as the years accumulate, but I don't think it's a matter of "can't" learn. It's more a matter of "won't" learn.

          Look at the very long post above - someone who is working and learning, setting and achieving what most would call fairly modest incremental goals. How many would look at $10/day ($300/month) and blow it off because their heads have been filled with visions of $10,000/mo if they only buy the missing secret that's been keeping them down?

          Going back to the original question, I don't mind the dabblers. I don't even mind the folks who ask for advice and simply choose not to take it. The ones that get under my skin are the ones that ask for advice and feedback that want to argue when the advice and feedback doesn't agree with them. They don't want advice and feedback. They want validation, a pat on the head, and another "participation trophy" to put on their psychic mantle. And I have better things to do with my time than indulge them.
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          • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
            Banned
            Originally Posted by NickWebTrafficLounge View Post

            80% of the time should be implementation, and that goes for succeeding with anything.
            In internet marketing, it seems to me that (by far) the largest group among the people who aren't successful are the people who have taken that to heart, imagining, somehow, that "taking action" is the ultimate determinant of "who succeeds". It isn't, at all: I think the people who "don't take action" are hugely outnumbered by the people who take action very substantially and consistently but have set off in the wrong direction - and when you've set off in the wrong direction, it will make no difference at all to your income/success how much/little action you take.

            Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

            Maybe I'm getting cynical as the years accumulate, but I don't think it's a matter of "can't" learn. It's more a matter of "won't" learn.
            Ach ... maybe you're even more cynical than me, over this point! I always still look at it primarily in terms of people who "can't" learn, telling myself that there were people like that at high school and even at college, too. Maybe I'll change my mind more toward your perspective, though, over the years. I strongly suspect that my father's on your side, on that point.

            Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

            I don't mind the dabblers. I don't even mind the folks who ask for advice and simply choose not to take it. The ones that get under my skin are the ones that ask for advice and feedback that want to argue when the advice and feedback doesn't agree with them. They don't want advice and feedback. They want validation, a pat on the head, and another "participation trophy" to put on their psychic mantle. And I have better things to do with my time than indulge them.
            I'm definitely moving gradually in this direction, though it continues to frustrate me.

            .
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            • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
              Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

              Ach ... maybe you're even more cynical than me, over this point! I always still look at it primarily in terms of people who "can't" learn, telling myself that there were people like that at high school and even at college, too. Maybe I'll change my mind more toward your perspective, though, over the years. I strongly suspect that my father's on your side, on that point.

              .
              Your father sounds like a very smart man, indeed...
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            • Profile picture of the author kilgore
              Originally Posted by gluckspilz View Post

              Want me to show income of $20K/mo or $40K/mo?
              Just because you can make $20K a month doesn't mean anyone can.

              Originally Posted by gluckspilz View Post

              What are you talking about?

              1. You DON'T need to write well to make money online...
              2. You DON'T need high quality videos to make money online...
              3. You DON'T need to study much to make money online... Tell me something that YOU have studied that you think normal people can't learn...
              4. You DON'T need design when it comes to building marketing pages... (Look at my Sig). A 7 year old can write that.
              5. You DON'T need to hire a full marketing team. Outsourcing an article, design, sales copy and all that needs ZERO management...

              Your analogy about cooking cookies...

              First, you make it seem like there is a "Bench Mark" an individual has to reach in order to make money... One does NOT need to make the best cookie to make money online. One just needs to make cookies.

              Competing with 100, 1000 or even 10,000... Crap, I didn't realize the 10,000 marketers can satisfy the billions of people using the net...

              If you hold such a strong point of view. Please share with me some things you have done to make money online that NORMAL can't do.

              All I'm saying is that EVERYONE can make money online. It all depends on them, period.
              Actually, I think 10,000 people is probably understating the competition in the MMO niche. But, while I'll concede you don't have to be the best, you do need to be near the top to make any serious money online.

              One of the fundamental economic principles driving the internet is called the "superstar effect" wherein "small differences in talent at the top of the distribution will translate into large differences in revenue." (Source: Sherwin Rosen, "The Economics of Superstars" quoted from Wikipedia at Superstar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia).

              For example: back in the day, if I lived in a small town and wanted to sell books, my competition was completely local. Maybe the town was so small that there weren't even other bookstores in town, so I could completely dominate the market. Nowadays, even if I live in a tiniest town in rural North Dakota, I'm still competing with thousands of booksellers, including the big daddy of them all: Amazon.com.

              Of course the challenges of the superstar effect are also advantages: back in the day, even if I were the best bookseller in the biggest city, my market size was limited to the size of the population of the city I was located in. Now, Amazon.com dominates the book industry (and retail industry in general) from a mid-sized city -- but it could be located in Reykjavik just as well (as long as it could attract the right talent to live there), competition and opportunities aren't bound by geography anymore.

              OK, so books are a rather large market, what about smaller niches? The problem is twofold:
              1. Even these smaller niches are part of larger markets, so you're still competing against the big guys. This is why you had better be delivering something they aren't delivering -- and sorry, but shoddy writing doesn't count.
              2. These smaller niches may have lower competition, but they aren't completely devoid of competition. And given the superstar effect, being top 20 or top 50 probably won't cut it, even in a small niche. As an example, look at your search engine stats for the terms you are ranked #1 for versus those you are ranked #11 for. If your stats are like mine, there's a huge drop off between #1 and #11 -- heck, there's even a large drop off between #1 and #2! Obviously, search engine is only a small (and I think not very important) part of a winning marketing strategy, but I think it's indicative of the general trend that top top players in any niche -- no matter the size -- will dominate and the rest will be struggling for peanuts. This is why your statement "Crap, I didn't realize the 10,000 marketers can satisfy the billions of people using the net..." is fallacious. The point is you're not just competing with other internet marketers, you're competing with companies -- large and small, new and old, innovative and not-so-innovative -- and you have to give your customers a reason to buy from you and not just go to them directly. Why should I buy someone's crappy-looking and poorly-written Clickbank weight loss product when I can go directly to Amazon.com and look up a well-researched book by a credible nutritionist?
              Speaking of struggling for peanuts, maybe part of our difference of opinion relates to what would count "making money" online. I'll gladly concede that even a poor writer with no design skills or business and marketing savvy can make a few bucks here or there. So yeah, in that sense just about anyone can make money online. But can anyone make real money, as in "$10,000 Per Month On ClickBank is VERY POSSIBLE!"? Sorry, but I'm just not buying it...
              Originally Posted by gluckspilz View Post

              In fact, I challenge anyone who is successful as a marketer to tell me some skills they have that average ordinary people can't learn...
              Granted we're not a "traditional" IM company (if such a thing exists) -- we're closer in some ways to an internet startup or at least an eCommerce shop -- but if you're in my niche, you're competing with us anyway. So here's my shortlist of things my team have or can do that most people here (though certainly not all) probably don't:
              • The ability to write really, really well. And no, I'm not talking about me -- I'm a decent writer, but we have much better writers on the team, writers who can write really well for the media (especially social media and our blog posts) in which we operate. We also do design well (though admittedly, I'd like to increase our capacity there.)
              • Excellent technical ability including many years of web development and dev/ops experience. Moreover, it's technical ability grounded in business fundamentals, so the stuff we do isn't just technically great, it's serving the goals of the business in big and meaningful ways. We're constantly innovating on our site, adding new features and tweaking performance. We have a site archetecture that can scale up and configure new servers with the click of a button to accomodate severe traffic spikes without any degredation in the user experience. We've developed custom behind-the-scenes tools to increase efficiencies and to report on potential problems or opportunities.
              • Great management experience and ability, both people management and project management. We know how to set up systems that work to effectively and efficiently use the time and efforts of staff, interns and contractors. We know how to motivate people both financially and also by instilling a culture that is devoted to the organization mission. Try doing that with one of your $3/hour outsources that you're talking about.
              • Fantastic ability to network and pre-existing networks of contacts that we can draw upon. This was especially crucial in the early days as we pursued a vigorous outreach campaign that established our dominance of our niche early. Even now, however, it's great to be able to chat strategy with friends who are professors entrepreneurship and management or talk tech with friends who are experienced engineers or CTOs (admittedly for small companies).
              • Money in the bank. This is both so we can invest in the business where appropriate, but also so that we can weather any potential downturns we might have and still make payroll, pay for our servers and pay our mortgages. That said, by all measures (income, traffic and the size of our lists) we're growing very fast, so I'm not expecting that we'll need to draw upon our rainy day fund anytime soon. But it's nice to know it's there and because of it, we feel pretty comfortable being a little more experimental and risk-taking than someone without such a fund would likely be.
              • The luxury of a long-term business perspective. While we certainly care about our current revenue, our predominant concern is growth. We're already the largest player in our niche, but we're still relatively small and we know we need to grow to secure that position for the long run. We need to both stifle any competition from new entrants into our niche (more and more of whom are appearing), but also grow our niche by grabbing market share from the bigger players who are operating in less specialized markets. Unfortunately, most internet marketers are more concerned with how to make $100/day (or $10/day) now than how to make $1,000/day in three years' time. They end up spending too much time and money on projects with minimal short term returns instead of trying to grow their market share by developing their products and services or growing their lists and networks. If we had been short-term focused back when we were starting out and making under $1,000/month (and for the first few months much, much less), I very much doubt if we'd be where we are today. And we're nowhere near where I want to be next year.
              I'm not suggesting that the above list is necessary (or sufficient) to online success. (And to be completely fair, our company is far too young to deem that even it is a success at this point, though right now we're making decent money.) But the point is it's people and companies with skills and assets like these -- people who are even better than we are -- that are your competition. Right now our business focuses on building one website within one niche, but there's no reason we couldn't use our model and the technology systems we've developed in other niches too.

              So again, maybe you can teach crappy writers with no business or tech skills how to make $100/day online. Maybe. But teach them how to build a real company? To actually make the kind of money that you're promising in your signature? Again, I'm not buying it.
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  • Profile picture of the author SuperKC
    I think we all feel like beginners at times. Ive made $50k a month and thought I was at the top and then made $100k with hard work.. other times I turn around and make $75k/m with no effort at all.. then you hit a slag in your life and you struggle to make $1k that week and feel like NOTHING works anymore. Its both hit and miss as well as feast and famine.
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    If you like my posts please leave a thanks and message me if you wish for me to follow up with your thread. I enjoy engaging with entrepreneurs and ALWAYS willing to take the time to offer solid answers that you can take to the bank. Internet marketing has made me rich over the last +20 years and this is how I give back to the community for all of those evil popunders I used to sling in the 90s.

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  • Profile picture of the author cyberzolo
    When first starting out you are bombarded by all this information, you don't know which info to take in and apply. Personally when I first started out, I searched for all the information I could get on IM and a lot of the info was contradicting other info. So it really is a maturity thing, the more you try and fail something, the more you will learn.

    Just my 2 cents.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lightlysalted
    Actually most of the time I think people who post basic questions repeatedly are spammers. I regularly see people with the same username posting on multiple forums in Internet niche's.

    Nothing wrong with asking the basic questions because we all have to start somewhere but not repeatedly asking the same questions over and over.
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  • Hi Samuel Adams,

    Why are you so intolerant about newbies asking questions and why don't you simply advise them as I always do that forums have their place but in order to get all their questions answered and make any progress, they have to start by learning from one of the many excellent membership websites that accept all beginners, and where there is only one stupid question, the one you don't ask.

    As I belong to Wealthy Affiliate my advice and answer to their question is to start there as a free member and if they are really serious, upgrade and pay monthly to progress. Another site they might consider is the Chris Farrell Membership. These two are the best and easiest to understand and get started with. Others in my opinion are either overpriced or over complicate the way they teach and fail to explain in sufficient detail for total newbies to understand and copy well

    Also Samuel, you were once new and didn't have.a clue once upon a time. Lighten up a little.

    Stephen & Jennifer.
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  • Profile picture of the author karlstech
    Originally Posted by Samuel Adams View Post

    Everywhere I look online, especially on forums, there are 'beginner' marketers asking the same basic questions and not accepting advice or even putting the most basic advice (such as starting an email list) into action. And, you have to wonder if these people are really interested in making money in internet marketing or merely dabbling with no intention of real success.

    I don't know what harm these dabblers do for the world of internet marketing (other than to provide a distraction on marketing forums) but they are really not doing themselves any real favors by pursuing the marketing life if they can't even put a simple plan into motion.

    What is your view on dabblers, or those people who are all talk and no action in internet marketing?
    The thing is, many new Internet marketers tend to take a general approach when starting a business online, not trying to be special. I am myself an example here...

    I would come up with a brilliant idea and become determined to begin constructing the website and writing all of it's content. I would then realize that I'm just like everybody else. And people will more than likely listen to a seasoned veteran than a newbie.

    That's why being special and having a different angle on the market is crucial for beginners, and also a reason why many lose interest and give up. It's when you've noticed that people appreciate your style that you can expand your business.

    I've now begun researching and creating a different take on the market I'm in, and will do the same with another website I'll start real soon. Being different and giving original content that few have seen or thought about before, will at least give me a chance of becoming a moderate success in the future!

    Karl
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  • Profile picture of the author RogozRazvan
    Originally Posted by Samuel Adams View Post

    Everywhere I look online, especially on forums, there are 'beginner' marketers asking the same basic questions and not accepting advice or even putting the most basic advice (such as starting an email list) into action. And, you have to wonder if these people are really interested in making money in internet marketing or merely dabbling with no intention of real success.

    I don't know what harm these dabblers do for the world of internet marketing (other than to provide a distraction on marketing forums) but they are really not doing themselves any real favors by pursuing the marketing life if they can't even put a simple plan into motion.

    What is your view on dabblers, or those people who are all talk and no action in internet marketing?
    Should just some people shoot themselves in the head because they bring no actual value to themselves or to the human race in general?

    I don't know. I'm not such a big believer in the Aryan philosophy.

    Yet, on an abstract level, it is the same thing.

    You can take any niche and you'll find 20% generating 80% of the results. Yes, I know, Pareto is way too over-rated but it is still accurate.

    This is true everywhere. Dating. Fitness. IM. MLM.

    And guess what? If there are 100.000 people and based on the Gaussian statistical principle of normal distribution, 2.2% or 15.8% are too stupid to do anything ... and you take them away, what happens?

    Another part of the distribution becomes that 15.8%. In the end, there will be high-achiever and there will be low-achievers. It is as simple as that.

    And if those who never take action would quit right now, 90% of all WSOs would go bankrupt overnight.
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    • Profile picture of the author kilgore
      Originally Posted by Stephen and Jennifer View Post

      Why are you so intolerant about newbies asking questions and why don't you simply advise them as I always do that forums have their place but in order to get all their questions answered and make any progress, they have to start by learning from one of the many excellent membership websites that accept all beginners, and where there is only one stupid question, the one you don't ask.
      For me the issue is not that new people are asking the same or stupid questions, it's that people who clearly aren't well suited to running an online business are being told that all they have to do to make money online is (a) work hard (or be committed or "take action" or...) and (b) purchase the right system (which the person telling them this happens to be selling them).

      Being a successful entrepreneur is like anything else: some people are better at it than others. And some people just don't have what it takes to succeed. This doesn't make them stupid or bad people, but it does mean that they'd do better to spend their efforts elsewhere. Personally, I wouldn't look at it as "intolerant" if someone told me that given my age, skills, talents and complete lack of knowledge of the subject matter, I'd never have what it takes to be a concert oboist. Maybe I'd still buy an oboe because I thought it was fun, but at least I'd know not to expect to one day play for the New York Philharmonic.

      Originally Posted by RogozRazvan View Post

      Should just some people shoot themselves in the head because they bring no actual value to themselves or to the human race in general
      No, obviously people who don't have the skills and talents to succeed in entrepreneurship shouldn't be "shot in the head" -- but they should be dissuaded from joining the large ranks of people who waste a lot of time and energy working their tails off but getting no results. At least if they worked a normal job, they'd be guaranteed a steady paycheck.

      I don't do coaching (or anything else MMO-related), but if I did, I'd have an application process and only accept those who I thought stood a chance of actually succeeding. To me, that seems (a) ethical and (b) better for both the coached (who won't waste time and money if he or she isn't cut out for it) and the coached (who will have higher rates of success to show off).


      Originally Posted by RogozRazvan View Post

      And if those who never take action would quit right now, 90% of all WSOs would go bankrupt overnight.
      Would that really be a bad thing? Maybe then the creators would try to do something productive with their lives instead of selling shoddy products to gullible dreamers of instant riches. And maybe then the WSOs that truly do provide value would rise to the top.
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  • Profile picture of the author Brent Stangel
    Not a personal attack, but you could be the "poster child" for the topic of this thread

    Failing is not an option
    One of the first things I learned (from Steve Weber) is to learn to fail quickly.

    Try it. If it doesn't show promise after a reasonable amount of effort then try something else.

    I see people who have been beating dead websites and methods like if they do it long enough the dead website will get up and run.

    I am only killing myself, and my family not you
    Why??? Have you even considered other options?

    I am beginning to learn that the only way to make it in this business is to sell junk
    This is what you have "learned?" I'm quite proud of the products and services I promote and make money from. No junk involved.

    You are on the wrong side and apparently you are unable to see beyond the hype and lies, that there is another.

    in search of the right combination of tasks to complete
    AKA "the secret."

    It's painfully easy, really. It's posted all over this forum and else where on line.

    Pick a product - Set up a funnel - Drive traffic - Test and Tweak - Repeat


    And I didn't charge you a penny...what a guy!!

    It is a simple fact that most people do not have what it takes!

    The 2% or so who do will succeed, the rest will give up after some degree of beating their head against the wall. The people who accept reality will do that quickly and move on to something they are suited for.
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    • Profile picture of the author rbianco68
      Originally Posted by Brent Stangel View Post

      Not a personal attack, but you could be the "poster child" for the topic of this thread
      Point taken, thank you for saying this, it was kind and not necessary. I was asking for a slap in the face by posting my original reply with poor-attitude. After getting some sleep and reading it-- must admit I'm embarrassed.

      Nobody wants to help a helpless person that wastes effort complaining. It is easy to want sympathy when you are going down the toilet bowl financially and you used to be he person that everything they touched turned to gold. I may have lost my fancy-home, fast-cars, wild-parties, and the finer things in life but I am happier (generally speaking) than before. Sometimes getting knocked down hard is what it takes to figure out what is important to you.

      If we hadn't had been foreclosed and moved to a Winnebago, nearly on top of each other, then my relationship with my wife may not have flourished in a positive way like it is now. I'd probably still be in the same trance-- more money, more money, party, party, money, sex, drugs, lust, etc..

      I used to turn things to gold and everyone around me knew it-- so this is my punishment for confidence and ego. Karma taught me a lesson. Never take anything for granted, thankfully I was relatively sincere when successful (monetarily) and quite generous and I think that is the only thing saving me now-- people who looked up to me are helping more than they can really afford.

      People are good, generally speaking-- too bad we were too busy focusing on the moment and let a bunch of psychopaths get voted into government, but I digress.

      Life is good.

      Originally Posted by Brent Stangel View Post

      One of the first things I learned (from Steve Weber) is to learn to fail quickly.

      Try it. If it doesn't show promise after a reasonable amount of effort then try something else.

      I see people who have been beating dead websites and methods like if they do it long enough the dead website will get up and run.
      I agree with this and somehow believe it doesn't apply to my situation-- not quite yet anyway. But love is blind, or maybe my ego has me deluded.

      I believe that my own personal knowledge and personality puts me somewhere at the very extreme and violent edge of the event horizon between living and dying. I am literally staring death in the eyes, but the eyes are getting farther away every day, week, and year. Am I deluded to think that my success, albeit slow, will continue? I don't know and am open to suggestion. For now I am not ready to throw in the towel but I may look at doing some odd jobs to help the financial situation in the short term.

      Why I am not ready to give up yet...

      I started out getting excited about $1 in Adsense earnings (in any one day), then six months later I set my goal for over $1 daily and made it. And a few years later, the income doubling continues and is slowly accelerating towards the poverty level, lol. My next goal is $10 daily (every day) and I'm probably a few months away from it. This is all from organic traffic that drives affiliate income (Adsense, and Amazon), I have no product and that is my next goal, figuring out what my product will be. I am a professional programmer who is an expert in some "niche" areas, so I do not believe there would be enough demand for a product about my area of expertise and I do not want to sell something unless I believe it provides value. IM, when it comes to selling products seems to be like a used-car business, you have to decide if you are going to sell quality at a lower margin, or crap at crazy margins. Or you might be exceptionally gifted and get high margins for the best quality.

      So on the topic of quitting or not quitting...

      I am one more goal away from greatly improving my quality of life, that goal is $20 daily in affiliate earnings via organic traffic. I am two goals away from the top, the point where things should move faster and we may be back in a home within a year!

      Should I give up on something that shows promise just because it is too slow? I really don't know and I have almost quit at least ten times, I listed the websites for sale at least twice.

      I have had success making money fast trading stocks & options after learning some expensive lessons. I've since done this on a few occasions where I needed to turn $2,000 into $20,000 in short order but you need the money and no matter how good you are, or how you use options to protect your downside-- it isn't risk free. If hindsight were 20-20 I'd have rented a home instead of buying an RV to live in and continued trading which is exponentially more lucrative.

      I see my daughters, they have my drive-- and they are putting money before relationships and not balancing it properly. I taught them wrong and this business will eventually help teach them, and will be there for them when they burn-out.

      So, to make a long story -- not too much longer, I want to say that I believe that I am on the road to success and that is why I do not just accept failure and try something else. If my numbers were not continuously moving in the right direction I would move on, but the numbers are slowly-and-consistently improving (and when I say slow I mean slow). Some friends and family have looked at me with their head tilted to one side when I tell them that I hope to pass this business to my daughters. I see the fact that my earnings are doubling every six-months, and that eventually time will work to my favor. I also see that if I am ill for two weeks, or have a family emergency, that the hard work and organic traffic keep working 24x7 even if I am not able. So I see a faint light at the end-of-the-tunnel.

      Your point was well taken... I will not waste too much effort on something that does not appear to have a good chance of success. I'd rather try harder to get back into my "time-clock" punching big-money job. I am fighting for a lifestyle of being self-sufficient, teaching my family that it can be done and improving the quality of life for everyone around me in the long-run I think that slow-and-steady is better than pimping myself out to the highest bidder because I will not always be there, or have the mental capacity to earn that kind money and that scares me more than anything.

      Originally Posted by Brent Stangel View Post

      *rbianco68 snipped some blank lines for space*
      Why??? Have you even considered other options? This is what you have "learned?" I'm quite proud of the products and services I promote and make money from. No junk involved. You are on the wrong side and apparently you are unable to see beyond the hype and lies, that there is another.
      AKA "the secret."
      It's painfully easy, really. It's posted all over this forum and else where on line.
      Pick a product - Set up a funnel - Drive traffic - Test and Tweak - Repeat

      And I didn't charge you a penny...what a guy!!
      It is a simple fact that most people do not have what it takes!

      The 2% or so who do will succeed, the rest will give up after some degree of beating their head against the wall. The people who accept reality will do that quickly and move on to something they are suited for.
      Thank you for the tips. I would like to believe I can make this business work but I deserved this and maybe I do not have what it takes, I definitely do not have the confidence I used to.

      So I want to apologize for saying something that implied IM required promoting less than sincere products. If I truly believed that I wouldn't be trying so hard to make it work. I am guilty of making generalizations and really should not write publicly when under any form of duress-- I hope you and anyone else offended will accept my apology.

      I don't mind being a "poster child" for this thread. I hope that it helps somebody who needed a little motivation one way or another, or for someone who thinks this business is a get-rich-quick-scheme. It may be quick for some people but not all.

      My tiny success to date has been by helping others, either writing about things that work, writing self-help articles, creating self-help programs (Silverlight and/or ASP.NET MVC / PHP). This is a rewarding career, granted not financially (yet) and as a side benefit I lost 15 pounds by cutting meals to once a day and eliminating booze and soda.

      I used to think living well under six figures was very difficult, basically living day-to-day but boy was I wrong. I would venture to say that I could probably live on four figures and still have the basic life necessities. Everything is relative, so right now, a funnel to me besides being something I put gas into the lawn mower with, is an elusive object, one that I cannot find the details about how to construct. Most of the time I try learning how to create one, I get stuck in one so I do know "how" they work and what it feels like to be in one.

      So far most of my research has taught me what it feels like to be funneled, but not how to create a funnel. I get the whole squeeze page thing, but how do you get thousands of people into that funnel -- that is the information I am still seeking. I could jump off a cliff if I wanted to, but create a funnel-- so far that information has evaded me even though the concept is simple, the dirty details are not well known-- one cannot just summon traffic on command, or can we? If you can point me towards any info you believe to be accurate, I understand free information may not be the best, I just need a little guidance. If someone is willing to help me figure this out-- they will not be forgotten, and I will happily pool my software development skills with someone who can accelerate my IM learning curve.

      I have experimented with ClickBank, and may look at products there until I can complete my software. One of my first websites (wordpress blog) has over 30 thousand email addresses but from what I understand they cannot be legally used for marketing because they are simply blog sign-ups and not double-opt-in-out.

      This forum.... very helpful... thank you...

      I read a thread on this forum before I went to sleep today. It was really great. I thought it was one of the "stickies" but I can't find it again. It was about the subject of being down-and-out and needing cash fast. Anyway it was very helpful, if only for the motivational aspects. Thanks to all that contributed. I hope some day I can offer something useful to the community-- and I plan on joining when the finances allow.
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  • Profile picture of the author skyro
    I think some come with the thought in mind that since its the internet they can just put something out there and they will make money and when that doesn't work they quit. Don't think some people realize that this is just like any other business you have to put in the time and effort to see it work.
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  • Profile picture of the author writeaway
    Originally Posted by Samuel Adams View Post

    Everywhere I look online, especially on forums, there are 'beginner' marketers asking the same basic questions and not accepting advice or even putting the most basic advice (such as starting an email list) into action. And, you have to wonder if these people are really interested in making money in internet marketing or merely dabbling with no intention of real success.

    I don't know what harm these dabblers do for the world of internet marketing (other than to provide a distraction on marketing forums) but they are really not doing themselves any real favors by pursuing the marketing life if they can't even put a simple plan into motion.

    What is your view on dabblers, or those people who are all talk and no action in internet marketing?
    You raise a good point. People who ask for advice but DO NOT IMPLEMENT them only to ask again and again, might want to take a break. Use the time off to figure out what is important and possibly learn from setbacks.
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  • Profile picture of the author gluckspilz
    Is it just me or is EVERYTHING about this thread WRONG!

    1. There are NO SUCH THING as some people are just not suited for entrepreneurship. Just like there are NO SUCH THING as MMO is NOT for everyone... WTF? If you can write... If you can shoot videos... If you can study... If you can use tools like leadpages (Literally Drag & Drop). If you can place campaigns.. If you can outsource.. What reasons do you have NOT to make money???

    It's not that they are destined to never be able to make money. It's LITERALLY their choice. Should they give up? Well, if they don't change or treat this as a real business then maybe yeah, they should. Can they change and actually start making money? Of course they can. ANYONE can...

    We're NOT talking about becoming a professional basketball player or become a concert oboist... We're talking about BASIC selling skills! Some comparison on this threads are just too funny... In fact, I challenge anyone who is successful as a marketer to tell me some skills they have that average ordinary people can't learn...
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    • Profile picture of the author kilgore
      Originally Posted by gluckspilz View Post

      If you can write... If you can shoot videos... If you can study... If you can use tools like leadpages (Literally Drag & Drop). If you can place campaigns.. If you can outsource.. What reasons do you have NOT to make money???
      Are you suggesting there's no native talent that goes into these skills?
      • Sure anyone can write, but not anyone can write well. Otherwise it would be easy to become a professional novelist.
      • Likewise if anyone could shoot high-quality videos, anyone could be a Hollywood filmmaker.
      • And just because anyone can study, doesn't mean everyone learns at the same rate or is as good at the same kinds of subjects. Some people learn math faster. Some people learn history faster. And some people learn everything a little bit -- or a lot -- slower. There's a reason why not everyone has what it takes to get into Harvard and it's not just because they don't study hard enough.
      • And sure someone can learn to use a Drag and Drop tool like Leadpages, but that doesn't mean they have any gift for design or experience with creating a good user experience.
      • Similarly just because you can hire someone doesn't mean you know anything about managing them. Nor does it mean you know how to hire the right people. Sorry, but outsourcing and management isn't as easy as you'd like people to think or everyone woudl just become CEOs of Fortune 500 companies.
      I fully agree that there's a part of entrepreneurship that you can learn, both from study and from experience, but there's also an art to building and running a business. Furthermore some people learn faster and are just naturally better and these people are your competition so you had better have something up your sleeve that you do better than them.

      It's a lot like cooking. I could give the same recipe and the same ingredients and tools to 100 different people, none of whom had any cooking experience. Will all 100 of these people's dishes turn out the same or will some taste better than others?

      After all...
      • Anyone can break some eggs and mix them.
      • Anyone can measure and mix some sugar, milk and flour.
      • Anyone can butter a pan.

      So why would some of these people make better cookies than others? And why would some people's cookies turn out completely inedible?
      • Some people might measure one or more ingredients poorly.
      • Some people might lose track of time and forget to check the oven.
      • Some people might have bad luck and find that their eggs are rotten.
      • And some people are just naturally better cooks than others.

      Sure, if all 100 people tried enough, they might all learn to make chocolate chip cookies. But the problem is that with a business, you're not making cookies in a vacuum, you're competing against all the other cooks -- and on the internet you might not just be competing with 100 cooks, you might be competing with 1,000 or 10,000. So if you're not a fast learner or don't have that innate "cooking" ability you're going to get burned.
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      • Profile picture of the author gluckspilz
        Originally Posted by kilgore View Post

        Are you suggesting there's no native talent that goes into these skills?
        • Sure anyone can write, but not anyone can write well. Otherwise it would be easy to become a professional novelist.
        • Likewise if anyone could shoot high-quality videos, anyone could be a Hollywood filmmaker.
        • And just because anyone can study, doesn't mean everyone learns at the same rate or is as good at the same kinds of subjects. Some people learn math faster. Some people learn history faster. And some people learn everything a little bit -- or a lot -- slower. There's a reason why not everyone has what it takes to get into Harvard and it's not just because they don't study hard enough.
        • And sure someone can learn to use a Drag and Drop tool like Leadpages, but that doesn't mean they have any gift for design or experience with creating a good user experience.
        • Similarly just because you can hire someone doesn't mean you know anything about managing them. Nor does it mean you know how to hire the right people. Sorry, but outsourcing and management isn't as easy as you'd like people to think or everyone woudl just become CEOs of Fortune 500 companies.
        I fully agree that there's a part of entrepreneurship that you can learn, both from study and from experience, but there's also an art to building and running a business. Furthermore some people learn faster and are just naturally better and these people are your competition so you had better have something up your sleeve that you do better than them.

        It's a lot like cooking. I could give the same recipe and the same ingredients and tools to 100 different people, none of whom had any cooking experience. Will all 100 of these people's dishes turn out the same or will some taste better than others?

        After all...
        • Anyone can break some eggs and mix them.
        • Anyone can measure and mix some sugar, milk and flour.
        • Anyone can butter a pan.

        So why would some of these people make better cookies than others? And why would some people's cookies turn out completely inedible?
        • Some people might measure one or more ingredients poorly.
        • Some people might lose track of time and forget to check the oven.
        • Some people might have bad luck and find that their eggs are rotten.
        • And some people are just naturally better cooks than others.

        Sure, if all 100 people tried enough, they might all learn to make chocolate chip cookies. But the problem is that with a business, you're not making cookies in a vacuum, you're competing against all the other cooks -- and on the internet you might not just be competing with 100 cooks, you might be competing with 1,000 or 10,000. So if you're not a fast learner or don't have that innate "cooking" ability you're going to get burned.
        What are you talking about?

        1. You DON'T need to write well to make money online...
        2. You DON'T need high quality videos to make money online...
        3. You DON'T need to study much to make money online... Tell me something that YOU have studied that you think normal people can't learn...
        4. You DON'T need design when it comes to building marketing pages... (Look at my Sig). A 7 year old can write that.
        5. You DON'T need to hire a full marketing team. Outsourcing an article, design, sales copy and all that needs ZERO management...

        Your analogy about cooking cookies...

        First, you make it seem like there is a "Bench Mark" an individual has to reach in order to make money... One does NOT need to make the best cookie to make money online. One just needs to make cookies.

        Competing with 100, 1000 or even 10,000... Crap, I didn't realize the 10,000 marketers can satisfy the billions of people using the net...

        If you hold such a strong point of view. Please share with me some things you have done to make money online that NORMAL can't do.

        All I'm saying is that EVERYONE can make money online. It all depends on them, period.
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        • Profile picture of the author salegurus
          Originally Posted by 10kaday View Post

          i really belive anyone can make money online with the right amount of time and work
          You keep telling yourself that...

          Originally Posted by gluckspilz View Post

          All I'm saying is that EVERYONE can make money online. It all depends on them, period.
          You are talking complete BS, period...

          Originally Posted by gluckspilz View Post

          If you hold such a strong point of view. Please share with me some things you have done to make money online that NORMAL can't do.
          It's like asking you to prove how you make $10K a month on Clickbank. Can you?
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          • Profile picture of the author gluckspilz
            Originally Posted by salegurus View Post

            You keep telling yourself that...



            You are talking complete BS, period...



            It's like asking you to prove how you make $10K a month on Clickbank. Can you?
            Umm.. Yes I can! Watch The Case Study....

            What next?

            Want me to show income of $20K/mo or $40K/mo?

            What are you trying to prove really?

            Oh... Quite the irony with the "You Keep Telling Yourself That..."

            Originally Posted by salegurus View Post

            Internet Marketing in it's basic form is a lonely undertaking, there won't be anyone around to pat you on the back every 2 minutes. You have to possess the drive,ambition and fortitude to make it a success.

            Inspirational stories are easy to find, unfortunately many of them are faked or exaggerated because people have a hidden agenda.
            You have to believe in yourself, be inspired by your current situation, have the ambition to better yourself and your lifestyle.

            Don't gauge your situation by what others have done, everyone is different has different skills and circumstances etc. Learn as much as you can, decide which direction you want to take and implement what you've learned...

            Inspiration starts with you.....
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  • Profile picture of the author 10kaday
    i really belive anyone can make money online with the right amount of time and work
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  • Profile picture of the author MrFume
    Well, because the internet is freely available, and the urban myths about making lots of money online have developed and spread - every opportunist, and jack and jill think it must be pretty easy - heck it is the internet, something they all use daily to chat and mess around. So they think they just need to find out the 'hack' or the 'trick' from wise internet savvy folks on forums like this. It takes a long time for them to understand what is involved - many of them never 'get it' and drop off pretty quick. Like any other skill set it requires learning and aptitude, those that have the aptitude and put in the work - great. The rest buy WSO's and endlessly quest after the 'Holy Grail'.
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  • Profile picture of the author forsure12
    well chatting on forums is also a "dabbling" or more precisely a waste of time.
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    • Profile picture of the author savidge4
      I personally think that the largest hang up is that there are 3 phases to selling online. There is getting traffic. There is qualifying the traffic, and then there is selling. The problem is, if you are lacking in any one of these you will fail. From what I read on this forum, more often than not, it is the product that is to blame for failure. and really that is not the case.

      Here is the thing, in each of these 3 phases you have to at least master ONE method of getting that phase to operate.

      With Getting traffic. my personal goto method is SEO. I can get results, and generally get them pretty quick. I am also very comfortable with PPC and social media, as well as content marketing. Regardless of the method you choose and or use... you have to be able to produce results in order for the following steps to work.

      Qualifying traffic. Specifically relating to what we are actually doing once we have traffic, this is not a subject that is spoken often here on the forum. Regardless of the form, be it a traditional sales funnel ( landing page email capture OTO or e-mail sale ) or a e-commerce model, or adsense all of these are Qualifying the traffic we pass across our offers. We are weeding out those that are interested from those that are not.

      Yes, part of this does go back to the traffic step, but that is more in lines with pre-qualifying than qualifying itself.

      If you are using a traditional sales funnel and you get that traffic to your landing page and you lay out the offer... here get this, insert your e-mail for instant access. If the "Prospect" inserts their e-mail, they have just qualified themselves as someone that is interested in at the very least the product you are pushing.

      This is why it is very important to keep your message clear from the point of obtaining the traffic, to the commitment of the prospect. Any deviation in message will drive your prospects away. I recently had a fellow warrior ask me to look at their page. They were getting decent traffic and not converting. Once I got to the page I saw they had links to get a free "PDF" once you clicked on the "PDF" you were sent off to a sales page for a product. There were no conversions because they were lying to the prospects. Every effort they had placed in getting the traffic, qualifying them... right there was shot.

      So now that you have traffic coming in.. you have a method of qualifying that traffic, its time to sell. If you are using your e-mail list to sell, and your efforts are fruitless, stop what you are doing. Now I don't mean stop IM,I mean get yourself a new g-mail account, and go around and get on 10 to 50 other marketers e-mail list. See how they are selling. So... Stop what you are doing and try to mimic what they are doing.

      If you are using a e-commerce model and you are not getting sales, you need to again stop what you are doing. Look at the big boy sites IE Walmart, The Gap, TigerDirect and see what they are doing. ( these big companies spend a lot of time and money to make it easy and comfortable for people to purchase online. ) By mimicking what they are doing, you are in essence piggybacking their budget they spend to produce success.

      I always suggest, start with traffic.. You have to, without it, you have nothing. get it going before you even concern yourself with the details of the other aspects. Once that is rolling, then work out the conversion process in the qualifying stage. and once that is where it needs to be, then work on closing the deal. Thinking you can work on all 3 of these at the same time is counter productive to say the least.

      Over the years I have done some work for large restaurant chains and the like. When they are looking at the possible profitability of a location the average number these big chains look for, is traffic in front of the location to be 20,000+ cars a day. On the internet, Success can be measured by getting 20,000 visitors a month across your offer.

      As an example, if you are using SEO as your method for traffic go into Google Webmaster Tools and look at "Search Queries". You are shooting to get the impression count in that 20,000+ range. The same is true with PPC, and the same again in Social Media. Its just kind of one of those universal numbers. ( Again this is not spoken of often if ever )

      To now answer the OP's question, dabblers I think are people that think online marketing is easy. And as much as we can sit here and say oh its 3 easy steps, or just set up a funnel or set up a blog and write... we all know its not that easy. If you really don't know what you are doing the choices and options are down right daunting.

      What "Niche", what product, what source of traffic, short or long squeeze page, white background, what about video? 3 5 or 7 segment e-mail sales etc etc etc. There are a lot of decisions that have to be made. and we say "Go with your passion, and good luck"
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  • Profile picture of the author Al amin
    Knowing how stuff works is far different than doing the stuff.

    Thanks
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  • It's not just internet marketing (MMO), I see people from every area of life taking the wrong approach to accomplish things.

    Yes, we all need "how to" information, but you don't need every single training method out there before implementing. 80% of the time should be implementation, and that goes for succeeding with anything.

    I have a lot of friends who run "non internet marketing" businesses, and a lot of them focus on the wrong things: checking email, "business" firefighting and training without implementing.

    This is life. About 2%-3% will go out there and get results, and the rest will not have the full commitment.
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  • Profile picture of the author Murigirl
    Banned
    I would say....

    NO! Dont quit on internet marketing. It is the route most of us new online entrepeneurs are going down. The world is changing. Technology is creeping over. Jobs are cut. Making money online or doing real estate is the only option for us all. I mean, not only those two, but they're one of the top oppurtinites we've got. So I say dont quit internet marketing.

    Basically, all you have to do is:

    1. Get a Product that the market is hungry for
    2. Put it up on a website
    3. Sell it

    That is how simple internet marketing is. But all the programs we buy and all the courses you go through make the process seem like a hard job. Its really just basic 3 steps.

    Thank you for reading this post. Hope you succeed online and in the future
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  • Profile picture of the author Josh Mayers
    Originally Posted by Samuel Adams View Post

    Everywhere I look online, especially on forums, there are 'beginner' marketers asking the same basic questions and not accepting advice or even putting the most basic advice (such as starting an email list) into action. And, you have to wonder if these people are really interested in making money in internet marketing or merely dabbling with no intention of real success.

    I don't know what harm these dabblers do for the world of internet marketing (other than to provide a distraction on marketing forums) but they are really not doing themselves any real favors by pursuing the marketing life if they can't even put a simple plan into motion.

    What is your view on dabblers, or those people who are all talk and no action in internet marketing?
    ********************************************

    Hey Samuel,

    I don't think that anyone should just quit internet marketing.

    Although, it is not for everyone, I truly do believe that if anyone wanted to become successful at it, they would have to persist through the struggles and hard times that lie ahead of them, and be willing to put in the time and effort.

    We all have a starting point!

    -Josh
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  • Profile picture of the author Trey Morgan
    Internet marketing is not for everyone. There are so many reasons as to why someone might have a problem taking action on a simple plan. Some people are lacking patience, discipline, motivation, direction, clarity, etc...

    I was never the type to annoy everyone with a bunch of questions on the warrior forum when I just got started online, but I did have a problem taking simple advice and applying it. Reason being, because I was receiving information that was contradictory, and I didn't know what really works and what doesn't. So instead of focusing on one business model, I was trying everything at once.

    It took me some time to figure out the importance of sticking with one business model until I reach my definition of success. I could've quit trying to build an online business a long time ago, but I just couldn't see myself working the regular 9-5 for the rest of my life. So, eventually I figured out what business models work and which ones don't and now I hope to help the same people who were in my shoes a couple years ago when I was lost and confused.
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  • Profile picture of the author JohnnyPlan
    Originally Posted by Samuel Adams View Post


    I don't know what harm these dabblers do for the world of internet marketing (other than to provide a distraction on marketing forums) but they are really not doing themselves any real favors by pursuing the marketing life if they can't even put a simple plan into motion.
    If these people are out there on forums discouraging others from pursuing this path, then they could be doing a lot of harm. Just because the path didn't work for one, doesn't mean it will fail for all.
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Yeah IM is just not for everyone.

      I know people ( family and friends) who see what I do and ask if they can do it too.

      But the fact is they just do not have the aptitude. They just flatly do not. That is not being mean or a 'better than thou ' attitude.....it is just the Truth !

      Crafting a follow up series with particular wording and having every sentence with some kind of distinctive meaning and persuasiveness to it....well a lot of people in my Life just do not have that ability to do that.

      That is not how their brains are hardwired.

      So I am just upfront with them and tell them this cannot be done by just anyone.


      - Robert Andrew
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  • Profile picture of the author OneHealthyClick
    Everyone's got to start somewhere...it can be really slow for some people at the start no traffic for new sites is a bummer but then again people who have had sites for awhile i.e a month or so with shitty traffic should move on to something else or try throwing some money into it ..
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  • Profile picture of the author ceenote100
    How do you know for sure if these newbies are taking action or not? If they're not taking action right away then it's probably due to information overload. For every thread started by a beginner there has to be dozens of different answers.
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  • Profile picture of the author adamprince1981
    I have to say its up to them. I'll be the 1st to raise my hand and admit I had the wrong Idea when I started. I bought a program that promised it had all the answer and thought it would be easy. I spent a lot of time just looking for something easy instead of finding what worked for me. Some are just looking for the magic button, and others still don't really get it, or know where to begin. I spent at least a year overwhelmed with it all. Which lead me to believe I had to know everyone aspect if I wanted to be successful. That and being a nature procrastinator.

    So, I can't really judge them having been there not long ago at all. Just learned through a lot of trial and error where to place my efforts.
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  • Profile picture of the author sfrewerd
    People who just read about something like IM without taking action are like people who drink diet coke and expect to lose weight simply because they're drinking it...idk...it's a frustrating thing to see people spin wheels and get no where. I can understand it for awhile at first while they're trying to figure out what it's all really about, but at some point you just have to do it and see what happens. I've been guilty of procrastinating many times and have disappointed myself a lot too because of it. I think that sometimes the dabblers may not 'hurt' quite enough to dig in and do the work, they're still comfortable with their jobs etc. Just my thoughts. ;-)
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  • Profile picture of the author bakibal
    When i got started i took all of the quick and easy advice, but never focused on one thing. My mind was all over the place
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  • Profile picture of the author jamescanz
    Originally Posted by Samuel Adams View Post

    What is your view on dabblers, or those people who are all talk and no action in internet marketing?
    Everyone has to start somewhere.

    I started off dabbling and spinning my wheels, even with high intentions.

    Being all talk and no action, however, is a horse of a completely different color

    Not so much a fan of 'all talk and no rokk'
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