WTF 1.00 For 500 Words, Are You Serious?

Although some will argue the point, you usually get what you pay for. Those that are looking for quality are usually willing to pay for it.

What you need to remember is they're willing to pay what it's worth to them.

So they probably don't value their own time either.

You'll get a much better rate just dealing with business owners direct - I've paid a lot of people much more for content and I rarely find them on outsourcing sites since there are a lot of IMers who like to write.

Andy

Wow, those lines really hurt my eyes. Having said that, the hedge you have against these extremely low offers is putting first class samples in your portfolio. Doing this will show prospective buyers that you are worth the extra cash.

TomG.

thaanks be e to yu mi frend:p

Yeah, using those sites is a waste of time for freelance writing. I do both internet marketing and writing, and I don't ever get my clients from any of the freelance websites like elance. Although, I have heard of writers having success on those sites.

I have had success selling to clients on sites that aren't centered around freelancing. Internet marketing forums, online classified ads, and local businesses are usually better sources, but you also need to justify your higher prices. Hope that helps.

I'd be really curious if any one has gotten any usable content at that price. Course if they did, they would probably keep to themselves. I'd feel like I was ripping them off.

On the other hand, as mentioned, that might not be bad pay in another part of the world. Something better than nothing? I had some one hit me up on messenger yesterday, said he was from the warrior forum, looking for work. Seemed from the way he talked he would do anything at any price, said he was poor.

I have never used a freelancing site. The majority of my work comes from people outside of the IM niche. You will find there are many people who are willing to pay far higher prices.

If you want to earn higher rates then you need to think beyond IMers because many of them will never pay higher rates. By higher rates I mean anything more than $0.10 per word.

My only advice is: if you have any spare time, write a couple articles yourself to avoid scams and bad work. Plus they only take 15 minutes to write.

-Howlinghawk

Someone willing to pay a buck for 500 words really needs to eye their subscribers, because I guarantee that by the time they spend 2.00 and get 2 articles, half the people reading their sites/blogs will have unsubscribed.

Cheap writing leads to a net loss as a webmaster. This I know from experience. Pay a dollar now and lose 500.00 in sales later. It's simple.

These prices do exist, and I have to admit I'm guilty of trying to find deals like this early in my IM career. All I can say is it amounts to nothing but rubbish. Pay nothing and you get nothing. You end up with non-English speaking people who have no clue as to the language, or you get idiots who refurbish junk and call it original.

Too good to be true always is. 1.00 for 500 words? I challenge anyone here to find a good article/ post for that kind of money.

About the only time you'll be lucky to find decent quality for that price is if a talented writer is using it as an introductory price (loss leader) to try and establish a client-base before raising prices. If you find such a writer don't expect the low prices to last forever.

i'm on Jimmy Browns list of reccomended writers- have to say I have NEVER accepted crap pay..
if you are good, it's worth it.
Have I accepted lower than top levels? absolutely. but never sell yourself short!

This is nothing new with freelance sites, this has been going on for years.. With my clients (when I took on clients) I would provide them with a full detailed proposal and prove to them that paying me $5,000 or more for a website was well worth the cost over someone that "claimed" they could do it for $200..

It really is that simple, provide proof that you are worth every single penny and give detailed information why you are worth it.

I personally do not take on clients any longer as I got tired of the rate race and buyers that wanted to pay $50 for a $5,000 site. I prefer now to build my own products and sell my own services and products... Now my stress levels are way down ...lol

James

On Digital Point I've seen threads where people have wanted perfect articles, perfect grammar, perfect English, fast turn around for $2 for 500 words. They will either be completely ignored or get terrible articles or copied ones. I find ads like that humorous They won't get what they are looking for.

I went to rentacoder just to find a crazy ad, which I knew they'd be there.

This guy wants 50 original articles 400-750 words and the MAXIMUM bid is 50 dollars!! hahahaha

Rent A Coder - 50 Original Articles, Various Topics

Yeah good luck on that one. I don't find these ads offensive I find them hilarious. You know nobody is going to write these perfect articles for $1 or less for 450-700 words. Craziness. Insanity.

I had the same problem... some people even want free samples so they can use your articles for free, and some don't even pay.

Yeah, I've laughed at some of those sites, too. Just shake my head and move on. I can't help feeling a bit peeved, though, at the people that actually bid on those jobs. My rates are quite low right now because I'm launching my business, but don't expect them to stay that low for long!

2 things which are often missed by writers. Some gurus (yes I have read it in their books) say, hire a writer, and pay them the lowest possible money you can get away with. Never tell who your writer is, because then others will want to use them and the writer will realise there are many people who will pay higher rates to them.

I discovered this via a number of warriors who say, always post on a site that you want a free sample. Wait until you have 10 or more samples, then say the job has been given, but never give it to anyone. Use the free samples and then post another ad.

The biggest problem with new writers is they assume that IMers are the only people who buy. Yet, they won't put their prices up because they are afraid that nobody will buy. However, those outside of IM don't normally pay the lower prices because they think that anything less than $0.10 per word isn't going to be that good.

Tina, I don't normally go looking for clients, as most of mine find me through my website.

I do have a list of companies and yes they are for my coaching students only.

Robin that is the point, you don't have to look. Many people who need a ghostwriter and are prepared to pay decent rates don't advertise. They use Google, and they will contact the writer rather than the writer having to spend hours every day looking for work.

One thing I teach is a way to get a client in 10 mins, and you can do that every single time you need work.

I know when I have said I don't go looking for work, people have decided to put all sorts of things into the equation which are not true.

I don't go looking for work, not because as some assume I'm too proud to look, but my clients come to me. I would say that 95% of our new clients in the last 2 years are not from the Warrior Forum. They have all approached me through my website, and being indexed on the 1st page of Google for many different keywords.

People read what they want to read and then make up the rest, but the reality is, we get a whole range of new clients looking for writing which isn't often articles, ebooks and reports, even though at times it does include those.

Everything we do through our site is for a reason, and even though we don't take the normal route of what people say here, it has given us clients who expect to pay higher prices.

Our list of services is now 12 pages long, and no we don't get to do them all in a week, but we do get the opportunity to do them over time.

There are some companies who pay higher rates, but the ads are on their own websites. I don't know of any higher paying company that uses the normal freelance sites.

When these people are searching for a writer, it seems they immediately reject those with lower prices. There are other factors which should be taken into consideration as well.

We are in the process of changing the format of our course, and it will then be available all year round. Whether we will offer it again as a wso is open to discussion at the moment.

At the moment our course is aimed at new writers, but we have found that people who have been writing for a number of years have found they have been able to double their rates overnight.

We have 2 brand new courses about to be released which are for people who have completed the beginners course, and those will be teaching lots of things I have never seen on the forum before. Those 2 new courses are not available as a wso, and you have to do the beginners course first.

We were talking to a writer yesterday, and when we shared a few things, they said we did things totally differently from what is normally being taught by IMers.

We are told you can't do things the way we do things, because it isn't the acceptable way. But, it is only because IMers teach ways which work in affiliate marketing which don't always work for writing.

Even a simple change to your website will immediately make a difference to the rates you charge. But, as I say, here I'm a voice on my own, and people say you can't do it.

Generally speaking the advice is good advice, except the niche is totally wrong for the advice, but few can see that.

You freelance writers in countries with high standards of living, such as U.S. or Europe, have to sit down and realize there are writers in India and Philippines who can give high quality work for a much lower price than you, and there are many on those freelance websites.

When I first started, I hired a few of those with the low rates. Complete waste of time and money. I ended up rewriting the articles. I believe some of these people/companies have a "front man" who can write decent english to sell you on their abilities but then they turn around and outsource it themselves to others in 3rd world countries or maybe they are managers who assign the work to other less literate writers.
Anyway, I'll keep you in mind next time I need articles written.

Oh for sure, there has to be a jumping off point. We all must begin somewhere, and most of us began extremely cheap. I didn't start making serious money online, I started by making shite money and worked through the ranks.

The thing with ghost writing is this; if you have skills - and I can see that you do - it shouldn't take you much more than a "once through" to get up to a decent and respectable asking price. It's all gold after that. Right now I pay up to 20.00 per 500 words and even that price I find to be insulting, considering the quality I get from my writers.

And while we are talking about it, pay close attention to whomever (perhaps Bev?) mentioned that most webmasters NOT involved in the "online money making" niche already expect to pay significantly more than you see on these happy-crappy freelancer sites. For you Phoenix, it may not only be about getting your feet wet, also it may be worth it for you to learn how to effectively reach that audience - with an effective marketing strategy. This could save you a few dozen underpaid jobs at least. There are plenty of people here on Warrior that can help you in that area.

You are definitely on the right track. Using what you complete now as social proof that you have skills - this is what is required in the business of writing. But be careful not to sell yourself too short or waste too much time "proving" yourself. There are writers out here with very negligible skills making good money just because they know how to advertise.

I totally understand how you feel. I even saw people paying .08$ for data mining. I mean its a no brainer assignment, but it takes time.

My Disclaimer first, I have no problem with people who decide they want to go down the cheap route of selling articles. Cheap and expensive live happily together in every form of business, except for article writers in the mind of cheap IMers.

Let's get some of the myths and truths about writing.

Why do so many article writers get told they are not worth more for the hours they spend researching and writing?

There are a number of reasons, but one of the main reasons is the buyer doesn't want to share their profits. It comes down to the bottom line, greed.

They will pay peanuts to a writer, yet sell high to the newbie using the hype of how they can make millions while asleep etc.

Fact: Someone was asked to write and was paid $200 for the work. It was good quality writing, and I know the person who wrote really well.

The makerter who commissioned the work sold the writing as a WSO, they had a limited the numbers being sold, and within a few days was sold out.

Let's assume for a moment they paid for graphics and a sales page, maybe it cost them $1,000. However, they sold for over $10,000 which was easy to work out by the number of copies they sold for the price they sold.

They told the writer they couldn't afford to pay them anything more for the work, they even asked them to drop their rates.

You work out the reason for it.

That is happening in IM all the time.

People assume you have to go cheap and then work up the ladder, it rarely happens.

Imagine if you will, a person wants to open a 5 star restaurant, do you listen to the competition or those who are buyers saying, you don't have a portfolio, nobody knows you so start with a fast food restaurant, and then move up. It is crazy to even suggest that, because how many fast food owners go on to have 5 star restaurant.

The biggest problem facing new writers is being told they have to start low, with the hope they won't learn the truth and move onto higher paid work.

Who is giving the advice to these writers, normally buyers who only want cheap, and know if the opposite advice or truth is given, they will have to pay more. But, many of those who want cheap, have no idea what a good article is.

This is the biggest problem writers have, they listen to the wrong advice and then don't believe there is more around.

Does a 5 star restaurant take advice from McD's in how they price their food, lay the restaurant out etc? Does a 5 star restaurant say McD's only charges xxx so I can't charge anymore because nobody will buy?

Yet writers are doing to all the time.

The buyer are totally different as well, and the same is true in all niches. Imagine buying a $10 watch and say you can't ever sell a Rolex because nobody will buy. Chalk and cheese. Different markets, will bring in different incomes.

$1 for 500 words, the result would be " une por fiev handred wrods" LOL. There's this another forum that senior members/mods/many post counts members take advantage of their reputation. They are demanding for a FREE REVIEW Copy of any service being offered for them to only give positive reviews in return. Even with services that is worth $$$ and done tediously for days. Those peeps are really pathetic taking advantage of other people.

What I don't understand is the idea that these low rates are the going rates. Why do you think this, and who said they are the going rates?

Am I on a different internet to everybody else?

Am I the only person who sees sites with price lists of $1,000 for a 400 word article?

Am I the only person who sees people looking for high quality writers and saying that anything under $0.10 per word is too cheap?

Am I the only person who sees sites saying that any payment under $0.29 per word is too low?

Do I need to go on?

People say there is no work out there which pays higher rates, my question is where are you looking for work? Are you stuck with IM forums, elance, odesk, and the other freelancing sites?

Why aren't people getting higher priced buyers through their websites?

Why won't people stop taking advice from the wrong place and then complain about the income they are getting?

Fact: There is a shortage of writers. Not article writers, but content writers, ghost writers, and yet people stick with writing articles for cheap prices.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results.

I think these days, it depends on where you are coming from. In cambodia, an average wage is somewhere from 1$ and a little bit more.

Tina, I hope you don't think I'm picking on you, but let me give you a brief summary of what I have done.

I wrote an article for a website, and it wasn't an IMers site. I didn't know people got paid to write articles for websites.

I joined the WF as an affiliate marketer, when someone I worked with suggested it. Ghostwriting wasn't on my agenda, all I was interested in was improving my affiliate marketing.

I wrote articles here on the WF for $8 an article, and I didn't have any agenda at the time. I decided on a price, because a warrior gave me a suggestion of price, and then I did a business plan, and also using a pricing guide from my days in accountancy, I worked on how low I would go.

I was told to look at elance, but the prices were lower than the $8 I got here on the forum.

I didn't go looking for forums, because my decision was based on the ROI and to me it didn't and still doesn't make sense to spend most of my day hunting for work, which might or might not give me some low priced work.

The majority of what I do and have learnt, I did by trial and error. I was on the forum here, and saw the advice and decided not to accept it. I then talked to many other writers and what they told me proved I was right in my thinking.

Nearly everything I had said in this thread, I have said time and time again here on the forum, but people don't accept it, because it isn't the standard advice being given.

I have given the same advice to a number of writers who contacted me, afraid to ask on the forum for being shot down, and all of this was given away.

It was only when a number of people asked me to put it together in a course that I ran the course twice.

I didn't have any mentor who took me down the path I took. I made a decision to go against the crowd. I decided it didn't matter if I lose sales from here, because I have my exit plan. I decided to try and see what would happen if I went beyond what was being said.

I then decided to dig deep as to the advice being given and why it was given.

It is only recently as I was digging even deeper that I found out some amazing truths about what the real world of writing is about. Most confirmed what I had thought and tested myself.

Robin, I'm just wondering what subjects you are comfortable writing with - and what your specialties include. I'm asking because my main writer just had a bit of a personal issue (her husband - a good friend of mine - was in a car wreck ) so I'm looking for a temporary replacement.

Also as you likely know from my earlier posts, I am constantly adding to my site list and optimized quality content is a must for me. So I may be of a mind to give you steady work.

If you want, PM me or just post here. I would likely be looking for 10 or so articles in the next lil' bit, so shoot me a price for 10 k? Cheers!

Ya most writers would probably hate me for posting this but, right now I only pay $2.00 per 400-500 article.

You probably think I would be getting some mediocre, broken English, poorly written article but, they are top quality,SEO'd, researched and pass copyscape 100%.

I believe the only reason I get away with paying so cheap is because my article writer lives in India. I know most people think if you outsource writers from India you will get poorly written, rehashed, below average content but I guess they're wrong.

The craziest part about it is, this guy has a Masters Degree in Journalism!

After I interviewed him and told him he was hired, he must of thanked me 10 times! He acted like I just saved his life! He was very very thankful. I just couldn't understand why he could be so happy over 2.00$ per article?

Either way, as long as he is happy with the pricing, I am happy with the pricing. If he ever asked me for a raise I would give it to him in a heart beat. I actually plan on doing this when I make enough money but until then he enjoys writing for $2.00 per article.

I'm not sure if our currency is worth that much more in the U.S than India or if this guy just loves writing so much, he does it for rock bottom prices.

Anyone from India want to chime in? Is 2.00$ U.S considered good money over there or are some people just crazy? I'm very curious to know ...

Unfortunately, that is what outsourcing has done to the writing market as well as web design and graphic design. I made my living on Elance for quite awhile but got tired of trying to compete with graphic designers bidding $50 for a corporate identity package or brochure. Writers on Elance were in even worse shape. They were being offered next to nothing for writing original content. Many of them quit, as did I.

This has been a really good discussion, more so because both sides have been represented.

Taking the original point into consideration, I agree that $1 for 500 words is almost laughable for most of us living in the UK/USA etc. However, if we consider other factors, we can see what this really means.

Someone charging $1 for 500 words, isn't really charging $1 for 500 words, but for the time it takes him/her to research, write and edit 500 words. Now, say, that time equates to 1 hour. This means, in effect, the pay is a dollar an hour.

This, again, is derisory for most of us, but for some this is a pretty good wage. That deals with the monetary side of it.

Now, the question about quality comes into play.

Firstly, I do believe that it is possible for someone from a non-English speaking country to be able to write quality articles, but this is rare. Also, market forces almost dictate that, like their Western counterparts, these writers would/should raise their prices to match the higher earning writers.

Secondly, I think Tommy hit the nail on the head: some people are not after quality, but just content for content's sake; or, rather, for Google's sake. This renders quality a moot point as far as they're concerned.

Thirdly, a lot of webmasters set the threshold for quality very low; thus, anything semi-decent becomes "quality", which means those who are offering real quality find it difficult to justify their higher prices.

Ultimately, this means that the quality writers have to find webmasters who are a) knowledgeable enough to identify quality writing; b) want content for their readers - not for Google; and c) are willing to pay decent money for it.

-WM

Phoenix, I feel your pain...I was there once. For one thing, you are writing HERE for $4 for 500 words..starting there, it will be hard to get to $10 or more per 500 words. You might rethink that. Any who tells you can't get $10-$15 per 500 words from Internet Marketers...is wrong. It is ALL about value, quality, communication, service...period.

Almost all of the freelance sites can give you business on YOUR terms...I have had folks post for projects at $3 per 500 words, and turn right around and hire me for $12. If you are a good writer, put those skills to work in your proposal! Show them why you are worth it! Listen, if I am bidding for a job on health or fitness, I tell them to call me...if they want results, they are going to have to pay, and I am the person that can do the job. Once they call me, they are sold. Many writers and IM'ers hide behind their computers, but if you want to get what you are worth, you have to ask for it, but you ALSO have to deliver on the goods.

Finally, once your pipeline is full of orders, raise your prices. You will find some who won't return, but many will. I am about to raise my prices AGAIN because I would rather have someone choose not to hire me then be turned away...that leaves a bad taste in their mouth. Those that think I am too expensive MAY choose to hire me when their projects are producing more and they are looking for a higher quality writer, but even if they don't, it will be THEIR choice, not mine.

Anyways, good luck, and DO NOT worry about the low end market...it only exists if you hang around down there...climb the tree of success a bit...the air is clearer, and people's brains work a little better...

Mac the Knife

They're a dime a dozen. Just stick to your guns. Don't compete based on price alone.

The cost of living in India is cheap compared to the US and UK.

Yes, it is possible to find someone from India who writes brilliantly, but they are rare. I have worked with many Indians and you can tell when reading their work, English isn't their first language.

Another problem writers face from the world of IM is the term quality.

I have seen too many articles posted even here as samples, where the person has said it is quality, and many buyers have come back to say it is quality, and yet it isn't. It is a basic article. Many new article writers have no idea how to research and to write anything other than a basic article. Because of that, people are assuming this is the standard, and can't understand why someone would spend time researching and writing quality articles.

Quality in the world of IM isn't quality in the world of publishing.

Harry, I agree with you, but the point is you don't have to become a professional writer in publishing to have a higher quality article written.

The thing is many people who want content, want a higher quality, and they are checking to see what people write. Nothing to do with a publishing house. I was only using that as an example.

Harry, you are spot on. I haven't been to Elance in a very long time, but there are jobs which pay higher rates.

One thing I have found with article writers who only look at IM, they say I will increase my rates one day. The people I have dealt with (not in this thread) all have a common theme, they say if I charge $8 or $10 then I will lose buyers.

Well, that might be the case, but this is what I fail to understand. You have to remember I was an accountant in my offline job, so maybe I am looking at it from that point as well.

The people who I have talked to who are afraid to raise their prices, come back to me and ask how can they get work.

They miss the point completely.

It doesn't matter if they lose a potential client because they have put their prices up, because they are not getting clients with the prices they are charging.

To me it makes no sense. If a writer can't get work at $5 or whatever rate they charge, what difference does it make to try for a higher price?

But, it seems so many have bought into the myth that you have to charge low, and they sit there waiting and waiting for the client, who may or may not become a regular client.

Bev, totally agree. They are missing the fundamentals and therefore, focusing on pricing is not even their real issue...great point.

Bev, I would love to get a link to your services...I make money, but I am ALWAYS willing to learn new and more effective ways of doing things!

Mac

Well I gotta give you props for knowing where you are and where you're going and not letting other people tell you different. That is definitely a good attitude.

For what it's worth, the secret to getting $10/article on elance?

- Make an elance profile
- Start bidding $10 per article
- Bid
- Bid
- Bid
- Bid some more
- Bid a lot more
- Bid until you're sick of bidding
- Bid until the thought of bidding makes you nauseous
- Bid some more
- When you get a job you give them EXCELLENT service and ask for feedback
- Repeat from step 3
- Repeat all until you have enough regular customers to not bid any more

That's it, you want something, you put your hand out, prove you're worth it, and persist, and get it. No matter how many $1 jobs are floating around anywhere.