EU marketers, are you aware of this?

by 149 replies
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Starting Jan 1, 2015, digital services such as selling e-books will require the seller to charge the VAT rate of the buyers country. If you live in the UK and sell an e-book to a customer in Sweden, you'll need to correctly charge the Swedish VAT rate (25%) and report/pay it to the UK tax authority.

The seller has to be able to provide at least 2 pieces of evidence that proves the buyer's country of residence (meaning, in practice, that if you're just accepting PayPal payments and don't collect the full address of the buyer, you'll be violating the rule).

I've done a fair bit of research on this, and from what I can see, there are not a whole lot of options for an EU marketer who wants to, for example, sell a WSO. To stay compliant, you'll need to:

1. Collect and verify the address of the buyer and also the IP address
2. Look up the current VAT rate of the buyer's country and charge it (and provide an invoice/receipt that shows it) - UNLESS the buyer is a company, in which case they'll have to provide their valid VAT number, then no VAT should be charged
3. Periodically report the VAT charged to customers in each individual country through a local web portal in your country

As far as I can see, the only feasible way to keep selling digital downloads will be going through a middleman that handles all this (like Clickbank). Or, build your own custom system that handles it all, but then you'd still be responsible for the actual reporting. Simple selling through services like JVZoo will be against the law as you won't be able to correctly charge VAT.

I'd say 99% of EU warriors who are selling WSO's will be in violation of this come Jan 1. Exceptions being anyone who's selling through a middleman like Clickbank.

Personally, I'm outraged. I understand they're trying to level the playing field and prevent large companies from selling from a low-VAT country like Luxemburg, but these large companies will have no real trouble following the rules. For small players like us, however, it's practically impossible.

What are your thoughts?

Here's some more info:
Telecommunications, broadcasting & electronic services - European commission
#main internet marketing discussion forum #aware #marketers #vat
  • That will make it very impossible for smaller businesses to operate in my opinion... it almost forces those with ebooks to only sell through services as kindle or clickbank.... And I was about to start selling my ebook soon
    • [2] replies
    • I agree. The choice basically boils down to:

      1) Ignore the law and hope to go under the radar
      2) Try to handle it yourself and stay compliant = a huge administrative burden
      3) Use a third-party middleman and pay a hefty fee (usually 9-10% per sale on services like Clickbank)

      I'm also working on a couple of WSO's and I have no idea how I'm going to handle this...
      • [2] replies
    • that's the point of the 1000's of laws they force on us it's to kill as much of competition and leave insiders who are connected. Thats the goals they just say for the safety, good of all and etc...
  • > ebooks are included as items that attract VAT

    Yes. So what? That hasn't changed, it's always been that way.

    The issue isn't VAT, it's whether the seller has to comply with 27 different national VAT requirements.

    The seller only need to comply with 27 different national VAT requirements if the product is delivered entirely as a download. If the seller adjusts his offer, to deliver physical media, or include personalized services, or a bunch of other things, the VAT requirement may switch to the seller's location (1 national VAT requirement) rather than the buyer's.

    I'm not going to interpret the rules for you - a serious seller should read the rules himself/herself, and probably get professional advice on it too - but it is possible for a seller to redesign their offering so that the seller's location applies rather than the buyer's. It's not rocket science.
    • [2] replies
    • This ^^. If your business is based in the UK and your turnover exceeds the exemption limit (currently £81,000 within a 12-month period) you should already be charging VAT on your eBooks. The change in January 2015 is potentially to the rate of VAT chargeable on sales to non UK countries within the EU.
      • [ 2 ] Thanks
    • I misunderstood your statement to mean that ebooks were not included in the new regs. My apologies.
  • Wow! Thanks for sharing this!! That is outrageous and totally unpractical to regulate... I've just quickly read up on this and for sure there needs to be some practical workarounds, other than using a middle man like CB....

    I note that the HMRC states that B2B is okay... So I'm clutching at straws here but how about if the purchaser must agree to a declaration that the transaction is B2B - i.e. check box in with appropriate policies, disclaimers etc is displayed... This being a mandatory measure in order to proceed to the checkout... and with clear statement for the end purchaser to be responsible for sorting out their own taxes locally.... Does that make sense?

    Is there a slim possibility that could work? Can anyone with the appropriate legal experience help out here?

    That aside it's going to take some time to figure out how to technically set this up.... There must be some sort of online API service that can provide this additional data which can be integrated to current systems.... For me I'm hoping Paypal may have something in the pipelines...
  • Based on this section here...

    "If you supply digital services to businesses only (including those who are self employed) then these changes do not affect you.
    If you supply digital services to a mix of businesses and consumers, then these changes affect you as far as the supplies to consumers are concerned.

    If your customer does not provide you with a VAT Registration Number (VRN), and you have no other information that suggests that your customer is in business and VAT registered, you can treat this as a B2C supply"


    ...it sounds like you'd need to prove somehow that not only is your customer a business, but that they're also exempt from VAT in their particular country.
    • [2] replies
    • Correct, you can only treat them as a business and not charge VAT if you can prove that they are in fact a VAT registered business (or outside the EU). Usually done by requesting their VAT number and checking it.
    • For sure agree... Exactly what I was trying to say with trying to place an upfront statement and agreement before making the sale.... Would be great if someone with some legal knowledge to add in here....

      - That is also a great point and has me thinking.....
  • It seems like non-EU marketers are affected as well, if they're selling digital stuff to consumers (unless you can prove they're a business).

    Telecommunications, broadcasting & electronic services - European commission

    Scroll down to "New rules from 2015". In that section, they have an example of a NON-EU BUSINESS supplying a consumer in the EU. "Must charge VAT in the EU country where the customer belongs."

    So this is a significant change for a lot of IM'ers whether in the EU or not.
    • [1] reply
    • Yes, but are marketers in the US, for example, going to care about that? Not likely I'd say, unless they're a big time player.
      • [1] reply
  • Looks like you have to register here if you're not going to use a 3rd Party like CB or 2CO: https://www.gov.uk/register-and-use-...-one-stop-shop. Alternatively, don't supply anyone in the EU.
  • think it is very unfair to the individual sellers. It creates unnecessary paperwork and inconveince.
  • From my understanding I am going to have to pay US companies 20% VAT extra for my hosting?

    So how do they determine my use UK/USA?, furthermore how do I know if the USA Company will pay
    the VAT to the EU?

    Will Universities/Colleges/Training Org charge VAT for electronic services for online training?

    This new requirement is going to open a can of worms
    • [1] reply
    • Absolutely. I've been doing a lot of thinking about this since my last post. I'm not VAT registered and have always kept my turnover below the VAT threshold, but from reading various websites it would seem that the UK is alone in having a VAT threshold, and that other EU countries levy VAT from the first Euro - perhaps other Warriors could correct me if I'm wrong.

      As I see it, the only way to avoid having all this hassle is to sell products via a 3rd party who will take care of all the VAT stuff (it will cost you, but it will cost you to have an accountant sort it all out anyway) and only sell services to customers in the UK and outside the EU, blocking website access to people from continental EU countries.
  • US Marketers are *ALSO* affected by this if they sell to EU customers: they also need to charge European VAT and they also need to report it to European authorities.

    I know because I got in touch with an international tax lawyer for this precise reason. It's a pain in the ass and, if you want to comply 100% with the laws, there's no way around it.
  • EU...what an absolute disaster to any business. They are designed to suck the blood form every business. At least USA is all for helping businesses.
    • [1] reply
    • I agree, but let's not forget that in USA there is a Sales Tax in most states, and you're to charge it as well for a downloadable ebook.
      • [1] reply
  • I'd like your thoughts on an approach I have in mind.

    It appears possible, using PayPal's "Fraud Management Filters," to refuse payment from designated countries.

    Would it not be possible to input the 28 EU countries? This seems an efficient means of dealing with the problem. Though not, of course, a great solution (all those lost countries!) but at least one that has us in compliance. The problem with blocking countries via Plugins or HTACCESS is neither work 100% and they put a huge amount of extra load on the server, as each visitor comes under IP review.

    So what do you think?

    Second question: does it cost us any extra to use this PayPal service? Anyone have a screen grab of what it looks like to a person who's refused?

    GRM
    • [1] reply
    • New Age IM

      1 Please do not pay me, just make a donation to the same value via paypal gift

      2 Please exchange your fiat currency into Bitcoin and send me the Bitcoin and I will send you
      a gift

      3 Join my membership club for annual fee of 1000s (£ / $) which is a charity and I will let you borrow
      what you want but you must return it after 12 months.

      I am sure other Warriors can suggest better ways to beat these Eurocrats.
  • Personally I think the one good thing this might bring is that more alternatives to CB etc may emerge, who handle the whole process since it will no longer be feasible to do it yourself. Perhaps someone will also build a competitor to JVZoo/Warrior Plus that deals with it properly.

    Also, I really hadn't thought of it but worst case a lot of marketers outside the EU will just stop selling to us EU folks (as indicated by some replies in this thread) rather than deal with the potential headache. Not good...
    • [1] reply
    • I need to read a bit more on this, but from what I can tell so far, is that if a business in say the US sells to a business in the UK .. the UK business is accountable for the VAT using what they term as a "Reverse charge"

      I haven't yet finished reading about a US business selling to a EU/UK consumer -- what a minefield ...
  • Well this seems like it is going to be a massive pain in the ass. I better get to reading up on what I can do in the new year
  • Great timing

    I am right in the middle of a project developing a dual currency accounting spreadsheet for online entrepreneurs who trade with consumers in other countries .. this is a whole new ball game and I am wondering now whether to cut my losses after already doing a couple of months work on it, or see if I can find a solution that fits the criteria laid down by HM Revenue

    I am not an accountant by any means so I will need to do a lot more reading on the subject.

    Is it worth it?

    When all said and done though, it was only a matter of time before the Tax authorities caught up with the online money makers ..the UK/EU may just be the start of bigger things to come.
  • At the end of the document I saw this:

    Do you have any comments or suggestions?

    We would be pleased to receive any comments or suggestions you may have about this notice. Please write to:
    HM Revenue and Customs
    Place and Time of Supply Team
    100 Parliament Street
    London
    SW1A 2BQ



    Please note this address is not for general enquiries.
    For your general enquiries please call the Helpline on Telephone: 0300 200 3700.


    One thing I have been trying to find out, is anything to do with penalties for non compliance .. how would they enforce this in other non eu countries
    • [1] reply
    • If you're outside the US, and sell via Amazon or some affiliate programs, you have to fill out the appropriate tax forms -W8bens etc.. Technically that's an obligation to a foreign tax authority.

      You might not have any say in the matter. I'm sure most 3rd party payment processors (and companies like Amazon) will comply anyway.

      Any comments I could give would be unrepeatable, and my only suggestion would be where to stick it!
  • If Eu marketers using warrior payments like this are going to meet these requirements warrior payments will have to make some adaptations

    They will have to gather two pieces of evidence for the customers location the first is easy physical address just by making minor adjustments to the paypal button requirements. The second maybe more probmatic.

    Other useful adaptations they may make included the ability to block certain countries

    Do you think they will do that
    • [1] reply
    • I wasn't aware you could actually get the customer's address through PayPal (for non-physical goods). So yeah that's evidence #1. For #2 it looks like the customer IP address is ok to use. However, if those two pieces of evidence contradict each other, like if the customer uses a VPN in another country, you'll be required to gather more evidence. I get a headache just thinking about this...
      • [1] reply
  • Hi everyone
    Can anyone guide me what will the case of marketers of Bulgaria? It has a low cost structure and now these hurdles. This will disrupt the whole business out there..?
  • What a stupid system, completely drives a horse and cart through small businesses trying to compete on a level playing field.
  • I came across this PDF doc which might (or might not) shed more light on the issue... I'm still going through it.
    http://www.twobirds.com/~/media/PDFs...0ecommerce.pdf

    Ah, fun stuff
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
    • [2] replies
    • Hmmm, where exactly do you find the definition to include e-books?

      The first para is:
      "On 1 January 2015, changes will be made to the European Union (EU) VAT place of supply of services rules involving business to consumer (B2C) supplies of broadcasting, telecommunications and e-services (digital services). A consumer means a private individual."

      But on that page I did not see anywhere a link to a definition of what exactly is meant by 'supplies of broadcasting, telecommunications and e-services'. Now if I was going to just use the most intuitive use of those words my take on it would be things like web hosting, streaming servers, broadband service, this type of thing. I would not imediately think ebooks when hearing the wording in that para.
      • [1] reply
    • Thanks for that Paul. Having something 'official' to peruse and try to make sense of is much more helpful than all of the "I think...." responses. Much appreciated.
  • I'd just go with Clickbank to avoid ANY hassle whatsoever. Selling through Clickbank from the UK means you are trading with the United States as Clickbank is your 'customer' and they then resell it to who you deem to be your customer. However their structure means you are effectively the wholesaler who sells your product to Clickbank.

    What this means is you don't have to limit your turnover to £81k which is a stupid thing to do anyways and it also means all your sales through Clickbank are vat excempt and therefore don't count towards your £81k threshold so all of this EU nonsense (we're certainly not short of it of late) can be put to the back of your mind and forgotten.

    I understand CB fees are hardly the lowest BUT imagine the time saving you'll get by doing it this way and it's the most instant way you can put your business on the right side of the law.

    (that's the advice from my accountant anyways but make sure you get independent advice as I'm not expert).
    • [2] replies
    • Not strictly true, as the customer will still have to pay VAT if based in the EU...but I think you're right about the £81k UK threshold, as you are not selling the product, Clickbank is.
      • [3] replies
    • Hi MarketingBees,

      You are correct that our fees are not the same as a payment gateway, but that is in large part because of our role as both retailer and performance marketing platform provider. With respect to this specific EU legislation, we are already compliant and actively collect and remit VAT for specific jurisdictions and territories from which the consumer originates, with proper documentation on consumer point of origin. Likewise, we handle sales tax down to the city/county level within the United States and we update regularly as laws change; this is part of the value that we provide for the $1 + 7.5% markup on products sold with our platform.

      In addition, we also handle all IRS KYC (Know Your Customer) rules and US OFAC (Office of Foreign Asset Control) compliance on behalf of our clients. Conducting business on an international scale can be costly for clients who may not be equipped with the right financial and legal advice. It is essential to know who you do business with and sell to in order to remain in compliance with your country's laws and international laws.

      For a complete list of services that we provide for our markup price, check out our features page.

      Hope this helps.
      The ClickBank Team
      • [ 7 ] Thanks
  • Just looking at p46 of that PDF doc ("Your pocket guide to VAT on digital e-commerce") I mentioned earlier, it does talk about different VAT thresholds in different countries, i.e. £81k in the UK, 30,000 EUROS in Italy, 17,500 EUROS in Germany, 0 in the Netherlands and Sweden.

    So this made me wonder how these different thresholds apply.

    Also, if you register for the "MOSS" system, you need to register for VAT and therefore have to charge VAT on all your stuff, even if you're below the £81k threshold.

    Yet another great initiative by the EU to "encourage" free trade.





    • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • Sid, you dont need to be a eu based company to have an eu based vat registration. Eu based cb members are trading with clickbank's usa based company. Clickbank's usa company is a non eu based company that sells into the eu marketplace.
    • [1] reply
    • Thanks, Sunil

      When I think of the terms "US/EU based company" - I don't think of where they are physically located., but where they are registered to do business. As an example, when we speak of a "Delaware corporation" we are talking about a business who has registered in that state.

      Once registered in a given locality, the taxing authority considers you to be under their jurisdiction, and liable to that taxing authority for collecting/remitting consumer taxes (the whole purpose of the taxing authority in the first place).

      While ClickBank has registered into the EU marketplace, they did it voluntarily. Assuming they have no physical nexus in the EU, they made the decision to do that for their own business reasons (i.e. to better serve their merchants in the EU countries).

      Their decision to do so has NO implications for me/my companies (all US based), either as an affiliate nor as a vendor - which is why I previously posted :
      • [1] reply
  • Banned
    [DELETED]
  • I too, agree that it is an EU problem, and did not initially respond at all in this thread.

    I didn't post until someone made a statement that US sellers are also liable for the collection of EU taxes.

    What is needed is a tax attorney - not a tax accountant.

    To collect/remit VAT, you MUST register with the EU taxing authority.
    The EU has NO jurisdiction over a US business that has NOT so registered.
    • [2] replies
    • First I would like to thank all the posters on this thread for their input, which has been both educating and valuable.


      My take on this is from a UK based person operating out of the UK selling products worldwide but
      Not registered for UK VAT.

      So initially my obligations are that I must comply with UK VAT rules and they are:

      1. I must register for VAT if my turnover will or exceed £81,000 per year.

      2. If someone from outside of the EU purchases one of my products they can reclaim the VAT
      From the UK Custom and Excise

      3. As far as ClickBank go, they are resellers of your product and if you supply them with £81,000
      of products you should in theory be charging them (Clickbank) the current rate of 20% VAT?
      (I have never heard that it possible to abdicate your responsibilities to collecting VAT in the UK)

      4 In item 3 above if you are supplying ClickBank and the total value of goods supplied is below the
      Self registration level for VAT then ClickBank is acting on its own behalf (business) and collecting
      VAT for its own business.

      5 Which brings into question why are you paying fees to ClickBank if you are not responsible for
      Collecting VAT?

      Some of you may say that the new EU directive that comes into force Next year overrides current
      UK rules on VAT. I beg to differ as the UK can adopt or modify VAT rules e.g. as mentioned different rates of VAT throughout Europe and in the UK we zero rated products such as food, children's clothing.

      I was also under the impression that the UK government has to announce changes in VAT tax in the budget April/May and proposed future changes in the Autumn Budget. This EU directive contradicts current UK rules and proposes imposing new rules on one business sector.

      PS
      I would also agree with Sid post above
      • [1] reply
    • Ok, enough of misinformation. You could potentially cost HUGE problems to warriors and info product merchants with your incorrect statements.

      Here's a quote from Price Waterhouse Coopers (I hope you believe THEIR posts, since you didnt believe mine) :

      • [ 1 ] Thanks
      • [1] reply
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  • If I live in South Asia and sell my e-books in UK and Europe then do I need to follow it also??
    • [1] reply
    • According to the EU, yes. Whether you believe they'll be willing, or able, to enforce it is another question...
      • [1] reply
  • Victory for UK firms, but I am not sure about the rest of us. I am non-EU-registered, and in addition to selling digital downloads I sell "tangible" services all over the world (as a translation agency), all of them rendered in my country, not in the buyer's country.

    It has never occurred to me before that I should be charging VAT on sales in the EU - not least because I would already have to include VAT at my end for export sales (were I VAT-registered in my country, which I am in fact not as I am below the local threshold), so I am seriously confused - charge VAT twice, I think not!?

    It's a MAJOR headache for small companies that just do not have the resources to worry about all this stuff. Just tell me where to pay tax and I'll pay it, but don't make me become a tax expert or pay an accountant half my annual profit to figure it out for me.
  • Hello, guys! I suppose the way out would be to bundle up the digital product with a human element: LIVE webinar training, a personal touch, sort of. That might change the way Udemy functions, and WSO's are offered.

    According to the HRMC, in 1.1. the definition of digital services is "1.1.3 E-services
    Includes video on demand, downloaded applications (or ‘apps’), music downloads, gaming, e-books, anti-virus software and on-line auctions." Towards the middle of the page (1.9):

    I understand this, as long as there is personal intervention (skype/webinar session; personalised checklist stamped with the name and the email of the customer; dunno - might be off base here), the rules won't change.

    Extra care should be taken perhaps to specify what constitutes "dominant part of the product", as in 1.10 they write about bundled products:
    Are there any lawyers around?
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
    • As someone mentioned earlier, it is not the tax that is the issue. VAT is added to a retail price and collected by the vendor and remitted to the relevant tax department, so it is only a collection obligation for the vendor...the tax is being payed by the customer. The VAT MOSS scheme does make it easier than having to register for VAT in all EU countries and put in VAT returns to each one individually.

      The sticky thing here, though, is how to administer it and prove that sales are or are not B2C EU sales. Collecting the relevant data may be feasible for large companies like Amazon with hoards of IT departments but will prove very difficult for microbusinesses.

      The only possible solution I have found to that whole mess is this enterprising bunch Taxamo - 2015 EU Vat Changes for B2C - EU Vat Compliance Solution

      They do the whole accounting & admin for you for a relatively small fee (only B2C transactions in the EU are counted for the fees). I have no idea, though, how this would handle instant affiliate commissions that do not fall under this new law.

      For sellers inside - but especially outside the EU, using a third party seller like Clickbank would make things very easy indeed.
      • [ 2 ] Thanks
  • Hi All

    Latest Update / Confirmation from UK Government

    Link :Change.org

    Not much different from what has already been said in forum?

    George
  • Here is another update about a twitter protest

    https://www.change.org/p/vince-cable...n_update_email
  • I have been following this topic on many other websites including the latest Change.org petition, which I already signed:

    https://www.change.org/p/pierre-mosc...d-sole-traders

    This one is for the EU authorities. The previous petition also linked in some above comments was only for the UK authorities.

    I guess I had a big misconception about how the new rules will affect non-EU sellers who sell to EU consumers. Please check the following page which is the official EU page that explains the current rules and upcoming changes:

    Telecommunications, broadcasting & electronic services - European commission

    When you compare the "Current Rules" and "Rules from 2015" tables, you will notice that nothing will change for non-EU sellers. Only the EU sellers who sell to other EU countries will be affected by the new rules in terms of how they charge VAT.

    So, what is being discussed in this thread regarding the non-EU sellers having to charge VAT according to the consumer's country has already been in effect I don't know since when. And as far as I understand, nothing changes for the non-EU sellers.

    I mean it seems to me that the new rules change things but only for the EU sellers. Can anyone who has a deeper knowledge about the topic comment on if the new rules will change anything for the non-EU sellers (comparing current and upcoming rules)?
  • Here is the latest responce to the twitter campaign

    Link:
    https://www.change.org/p/vince-cable...ate&utm_medium

    Please note that this is part of a wider issue as you will see in the links that there is a reference to apply this strategy to on line goods in 2016. I hope that you register with the various campaigns to protect your business now and for the future. (it only takes an email)

    Thanks
    • [1] reply
  • Oh man, seems like this is going to suck a whole lot for a whole while.

    I want to become a U.S. citizen. Again it seems like clumsy grandpa's are making our digital laws here in the EU. If it would be comedy, not law, I would applaud.

    I can not see the unification in this.
  • As a US citizen, I'm going to ignore it completely and pretend I never heard of it and continue with business as usual. If anything comes of it, well my attorney can deal with it then. One thing I won't allow to happen is myself to lose any online earnings. My online earnings have gone up every year and I'm not about to let some stupid VAT tax law interfere with that.

    I'd love to get a tax bill from a foreign country so I can add it to the kindling I use to start my fireplace.
  • I'm wondering if a way round this is to build a list and be a full time affiliate so that I don't actually sell my own products any more. I will seek accountant advice when they're back to work in the new year.

    Or switch to Clickbank. I only launched my first WSO at the beginning of the month and I want to continue, I've got my next launching on the 30th. It'll be genuine scarcity, if I can only sell it until midnight on the 31st!

    Rob
    • [1] reply
    • When you are an affiliate and you are just promoting other products you do not need to deal with this EU VAT.
      This new regulation is only for product owners and direct sales of your own products.
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • Here's another thread on the subject: http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...st-2015-a.html (including JVZoo VAT complience)
    • [ 2 ] Thanks
  • [DELETED]
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  • Lets just all vote ukip!
    • [1] reply
    • This is silly. How are they even going to regulate it? Why don't they go after the big corporations that dont pay tax, instead of taxing the living daylights out of us ordinary folk

      Im honestly thinking about it. If UKIP was elected, it would probably take them years before they set a referendum though
      • [1] reply
  • There's so much conflicting information on this subject, maybe I am mis-reading this - or got information overload. Are they expecting suppliers from the entire IM world wherever they are based (even in Asia) to register for VAT in 28 countries?
    If that's the case, surely they must realise that simply won't happen and most people will either not supply to EU countries or take the risk. Maybe we will all have to geo-target our pages.
    I'm sure there will be a WSO on this, already seen one appear so far. This situation reminds me of the Sunday trading laws in the UK when the laws were so confusing and impossible to understand, in fact even now they aren't exactly easy in some parts of Europe.
  • So am I to understand this correctly this is only for own products and the selling of them. What happens if you're selling services ? In addition is Affiliate marketing not the selling of products?

    I suppose this would affect your selling of products from vendors outside of Clickbank etc.. marketplaces.

    For example I am an affiliate of a couple of companies that have lots of their own products and a merchant account; does this mean I now have to be wary of selling for them?

    I've just had a look at Taxamo Taxamo - 2015 EU Vat Changes for B2C - EU Vat Compliance Solution they collect 6 pieces of evidence, are free for 20 transactions every month. So for services etc.. if I need to use it this looks the perfect solution for a tiny solo business.
    • [ 1 ] Thanks
    • [1] reply
  • I think the best thing to do is speak to an accountant and get legal advice.
    Unfortunately I'm releasing a wso tomorrow and I don't know whether I should stop it at midnight on nye or cancel it entirely. And my accountant isn't back to work unti next week.
  • And they still wonder why big companies move abroad.......
    • [1] reply
    • If you host your business/site in a tax haven within Europe but not in the EU, how can they enforce your

      complience with EU Tax laws?
  • This rule is kind of not feasible in reality. I wouldn't worry about it. EU government coming to catch us in US for selling WSO to someone in EU. - Likely not.

    I don't waste time on things i can't control. Move on!
    • [1] reply

    • That's one way to go about it. You must be really lucky. Never found that to be a good strategy; depending on being lucky. I don't waste time on things I can't control either....but this doesn't qualify. I can't control this new law, but I certainly control how I react to it, and whether or not I will just ignore it and hope for the best, or if I'll take it seriously, and attempt to comply.
  • Im going to speak to my accountant when he's back to work on Monday. Get some legal advice on how to comply or see if I can pay him to sort it out for me!
  • Another Update

    Just received this from Kindle (Amazon), it was the last paragraph in the missive they sent to me.

    "Lastly, as of January 1, 2015, Italy has put in place a new law. Applicable VAT for eBooks sold in Italy will depend on whether the book has an ISBN. All eBooks with an ISBN will have a 4% VAT rate and eBooks without an ISBN will have a 22% VAT rate. This is the rate that is added to your price on January 1st and is the rate deducted when an Italian customer purchases your book. If you obtain an ISBN after January 1st, the 4% VAT rate will then apply for future sales but we will not adjust your list price automatically."

    So what does this tell you, the VAT Laws can be changed and it adds more complications to the calculations of VAT if complying with law as originally set out

    Wish you all a very happy VAT year
  • Hi All,


    am I right in saying that this does not apply to affiliates. So you could be a Clickbank affiliate or an affiliate of another company and it would not affect you?


    Thank you
    Ged
    • [1] reply
    • This affect sellers. Affiliates do not sells, just promote.
      As least this is my understanding.
      • [ 1 ] Thanks
  • Thank you Kris79,


    Best Regards
    Ged
  • I just had a long chat with my accountant about this, and because we sell business software and are therefore deemed as a business to business b/b seller were safe from this stupidity.

    So I'm a happy chappy today
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    EU marketers, are you aware of this?

    Starting Jan 1, 2015, digital services such as selling e-books will require the seller to charge the VAT rate of the buyers country. If you live in the UK and sell an e-book to a customer in Sweden, you'll need to correctly charge the Swedish VAT rate (25%) and report/pay it to the UK tax authority. The seller has to be able to provide at least 2 pieces of evidence that proves the buyer's country of residence (meaning, in practice, that if you're just accepting PayPal payments and don't collect the full address of the buyer, you'll be violating the rule).