Who cares about post counts?

Scott Ames

15 years ago

I'm amused when someone thinks I know everything just because of my post count. Ask my wife, that isn't true.

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Kevin Riley 15 years ago

Originally Posted by Scott Ames

I'm amused when someone thinks I know everything just because of my post count. Ask my wife, that isn't true.

Wait a minute! That's my wife.

The OP's sub line is way too true for comfort. Look at my ridiculous post count (only made to look less ridiculous by the prodigious postings of Wags). How many of those were garnered in the days when Off Topic posts counted? Far too many to make me look like a sane or sensible human being.

There goes my wife, agreeing with me
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Michael Oksa

15 years ago

If the infraction WAS truly warranted then you did contribute to the forum.

Sure, your post count is low, but there are some members who have been here longer with about the same amount.

I look at it this way: I would rather have you not post if you have nothing to add, then spew out a bunch of garbage based on some assumed expectation of your prolificacy.

All the best,
Michael

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DavidTheMavin

15 years ago

Post counts mean jack. If anything, high post counts mean the person's contributions do not contain as much substance as they should.

Thanks to: post ratios are a good way to determine the quality of a member imho.

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Ron.

15 years ago

No, not entirely true at all.

Steve W. has close to 14,000 posts and MOST of his posts are high value.

There is no direct correlation between value and post count. It just shows post activity. Nothing more than that.

Originally Posted by DavidTheMavin

Post counts mean jack. If anything, high post counts mean the person's contributions do not contain as much substance as they should.

Thanks to: post ratios are a good way to determine the quality of a member imho.

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DavidTheMavin

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Ron.

No, not entirely true at all.

Steve W. has close to 14,000 posts and MOST of his posts are high value.

There is no direct correlation between value and post count. It just shows post activity. Nothing more than that.

Yeah, I suppose I was thinking of a poster with say 14k posts in a year or so. I have tens of thousands of posts on other boards over years as well, and I would say that there's a lot of value in many of those as well, but also understand that someone that posts that much (even if it is over a long period of time) has other motives. Why else would you spend that much time on a message board?

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adamv 15 years ago

A large number of post counts gives some people the impression that the person must be an expert marketer or a respected member of the forum.

If you really want to know if someone is an expert marketer or a respected member that contributes to the forum we should actually READ some of their posts rather than just basing our assumptions on the number of posts.
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- BlackWaterBlog 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by adamv
  
  A large number of post counts gives some people the impression that the person must be an expert marketer or a respected member of the forum.
  
  This. However, high post counts doesn't mean the member is well respected too. He or she could turn out to be a complete self-centered jerk.
  
  I've been on some forums where people with high post counts constantly bashed on the people with lesser counts.
  
  It's sad really, why take things like post count so serious in the first place?
  
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peterzhang

15 years ago

There is no direct correlation between value and post count. It just shows post activity. Nothing more than that.

I agree with this statement. No matter how many posts you added, you share with people valuable information or knowledge, then it's appreciated!

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Paul Myers 15 years ago

Anthony,

I appreciate your desire to do something to give back to the group. A lot of people get the benefits you talk about, and never feel that urge. That's fine, but they're just spectators as far as this community goes. You've taken a step beyond that. Thank you, and welcome aboard.

I've long been an advocate of the idea that post count means nothing more than how much someone posts. There's one aspect of that which I don't recall seeing brought up before: Limits.

There are things about this business that very few people know as well as I do, and there are parts about which I know virtually nothing. For example, we have thousands of members who know more about web design and graphic editing than me. If one assumes post count to mean something, one could easily give me more credit on one or another area than my knowledge warrants.

It gets even more granular than that. For instance, I'm a fair writer, and have written thousands of articles in my time. I used article marketing back before there was a term for it, and did it in ways that most of today's article marketers couldn't touch. There are aspects of the way it's done now, though, that other people here, folks like Allen Graves or Steven Wagenheim, know far more about than I do.

It is nearly certain that you have skills that I haven't learned.

Relying on raw post count as an indicator of specific knowledge is not only foolish, it's downright dangerous.

Paul
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Paul Myers

15 years ago

Steven,

The only thing he said that was really different was that I'd need to use more words to get my point across whereas he could make the same point, sometimes in a sentence.

If I'm thinking of the same comment, I believe I said something more like:

Not better or worse. Just different. Where I might take a while and write one long post, you'd make a number of posts in the same amount of time. We'd end up conveying the same amount of info but, despite my verbosity, I'd eventually say it in fewer words. On the flip side, people would have more opportunities to learn something from your multiple posts.

Separate from those comments, I try to look at results, and how they vary depending on learning styles. That's why I'm cautious about saying one thing is better or worse than another. Sometimes there's a clear difference, but often it comes down to the questions: For who, and under what circumstances?

Paul

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Steven Wagenheim

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Paul Myers

Steven,If I'm thinking of the same comment, I believe I said something more like:

Not better or worse. Just different. Where I might take a while and write one long post, you'd make a number of posts in the same amount of time. We'd end up conveying the same amount of info but, despite my verbosity, I'd eventually say it in fewer words. On the flip side, people would have more opportunities to learn something from your multiple posts.

Separate from those comments, I try to look at results, and how they vary depending on learning styles. That's why I'm cautious about saying one thing is better or worse than another. Sometimes there's a clear difference, but often it comes down to the questions: For who, and under what circumstances?

Paul

Yeah, that's it. My memory is shot these days, but you hit the nail on
the head. I don't remember what thread it was as it was so long ago but
I vaguely remember the conversation.

At least when Alzheimer's hits I'll have an excuse to be so fog headed.

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Tina Golden

15 years ago

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DavidTheMavin

15 years ago

Originally Posted by TMG Enterprises

I agree that posts counts don't always reflect the knowledge or helpfulness of the member but I don't understand where you're coming from with this statement, either.

Tina G

What I basically mean is that if you go on post counts alone you're being misguided. There are a lot of people here with tons of posts here and all over the Web, that only have that many posts because they're always arguing or always hocking their junk.

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Frank Donovan 15 years ago

Originally Posted by DavidTheMavin

Thanks to: post ratios are a good way to determine the quality of a member imho.

Be careful with that ratio. The thanks facility is less than a year old and longer-term members could already have had thousands of posts prior to that.

Frank
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- Steve Diamond 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Frank Donovan
  
  Be careful with that ratio. The thanks facility is less than a year old and longer-term members would already have had thousands of posts prior to that.
  
  Not only that, but many members don't seem to have learned to use it.
  
  If I had a nickel for every time someone had thanked me in a post without using the Thanks button...
  
  Well, I'd have a few nickels anyway.
  
  Steve
  
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mcloud0729

15 years ago

I agree 100%. I am new to this forum although I have lurked around for quite some time and I HATE when people post something that doesn't have any value to it and just post to get that post count up. Just because a person has 2,000 posts does not mean they can contribute any more than someone with 20 posts. All post count shows is that the person has been in the community longer is more active. Thanks for the opening post haha

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Slyknight

15 years ago

Originally Posted by aamccall

So please just realise that just because someone doesn't have a thousand plus post count to their name, their point of view is no more less valid.

Couldn't agree more.

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tommygadget

15 years ago

Originally Posted by aamccall

One last point is that my time is limited in this forum due to me taking action on what I have gained from the IM community, so to the person who decided to pm me on my lack of posts... Get a life mate! My market isn't selling to people on the warrior forum and my market isn't IM, so my post count is irrelevant unless I was trying to sell something to you which i'm not. So please just realise that just because someone doesn't have a thousand plus post count to their name, their point of view is no more less valid.

Inherent in this part of your post is the assumption that all of us who regularly contribute to this forum a) only have something to sell to other members, and b) don't act on any advice in this forum and don't have a life. Those of us who built those large post numbers helping people may take umbrage at your post.

TomG.

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CDarklock

15 years ago

Originally Posted by aamccall

The warrior then felt the need to turn the tables on me and comment about my lack of contribution to this fantastic forum.

Forget the question of whether you do or don't contribute. Can anyone else here show me where, exactly, this forum requires me to contribute? As far as I know, I don't have to contribute squat, and neither does anyone else.

We are, however, required to meet certain standards of behaviour... and when we don't, we get infractions.

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Fran_C 15 years ago

It seems like each point of view in this thread has some valid points and I'm going to add
my 2 cents... there's only one rule about how often we post that I know of, that is 30 posts
before getting access to the WSO section and it seems to me it makes sense if we consider
that posting a WSO is a privilege... beyond
that this discussion made me realize how disappointed I am when I join a new forum and find a
few outdated posts... without
all the participation this forum wouldn't be as lively and useful as it is...

I've only made 23 posts... I suppose I could be called a lurker because when I visit
I spend time reading several threads and learn something each time but I'll be posting
more often from now on...

Fran
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- Fran_C 15 years ago
  
  It's me again! I just today became aware of the Thanks button because
  it was mentioned several times in this thread!
  
  I couldn't understand the 0 mention in the sidebar because of course
  I've thanked people, probably my reason for posting was for
  thanking someone... so now I know I should press the Thanks button.
  
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ERPConsultant

15 years ago

Originally Posted by CDarklock

Forget the question of whether you do or don't contribute. Can anyone else here show me where, exactly, this forum requires me to contribute? As far as I know, I don't have to contribute squat, and neither does anyone else.

We are, however, required to meet certain standards of behaviour... and when we don't, we get infractions.

The forum does seem to require that you have at least 30 posts in order to post in most of the forums. Although well-intentioned, I am wondering how to make inquiries in the WSO forum regarding some offers.

Agree that certain standards of behaviour should be required to keep it civil.

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OnlineMasterMind

15 years ago

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Steven Wagenheim

15 years ago

Originally Posted by OnlineMasterMind

Nothing wrong with being active on forums... BUT, most people netting 3K plus daily sure as hell don't have a 3K post count at any forum. Of course there are exceptions but that's a fact.

In other words... 90%+ of the people posting on forums with authority and high post counts still have a full time job and are probably posting from their job while their boss isn't looking.

Draw your own conclusions.

What facts do you have to back that statement up with?

I don't have a full time job. Haven't had one since 2000. No, I don't make
3K a day either, but I do earn 6 figures a year which I don't think is too
shabby for a guy who now spends a good part of his day either in the
recording studio or blasting away at enemy flying saucers.

You draw your own conclusions.

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Richard Tunnah

15 years ago

Originally Posted by OnlineMasterMind

Nothing wrong with being active on forums... BUT, most people netting 3K plus daily sure as hell don't have a 3K post count at any forum. Of course there are exceptions but that's a fact.

In other words... 90%+ of the people posting on forums with authority and high post counts still have a full time job and are probably posting from their job while their boss isn't looking.

Draw your own conclusions.

I'm sorry but how can that be a fact? There's so many variables! There's a bunch of highly successful people that have a 3k+ post count on this forum! Maybe some don't post as much now but many do contribute.

Rich

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Rod Cortez

15 years ago

Originally Posted by OnlineMasterMind

Nothing wrong with being active on forums... BUT, most people netting 3K plus daily sure as hell don't have a 3K post count at any forum. Of course there are exceptions but that's a fact.

In other words... 90%+ of the people posting on forums with authority and high post counts still have a full time job and are probably posting from their job while their boss isn't looking.

Draw your own conclusions.

And you obtained this proven, empirical evidence from where?

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DavidTheMavin

15 years ago

Really good points here, CDarklock is dead on, and you need to follow the rules, but sven is also right in his point that many of the people with lots of posts look down on people who don't have any. I personally got a few infractions for "running up post counts" when what I had said was perfectly valid when I first joined here as well.

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Steven Wagenheim 15 years ago

I knew I felt my ears burning.

Know what? I'd be tickled pink if they got rid of post count.

In my opinion, 2 indicators would really show a member's value.

One we have...the thanks button.

Another would be a member rating. Members could give other members a
star rating from 1 to 5 stars. You only get one vote so that way the
ballot box can't be stuffed.

This would give you a much better indication of a member's contribution
to the forum. Add to that the length of time they've been a member and
you have enough info to make a fairly informed decision.

Naturally, there is no perfect system. There never can be. But post count
means nothing other than the person has a lot of time on his hands to
type responses to threads or his own threads.

It's the value of the responeses that count.

Post count?

Allen could kill the stat now and I'd be perfectly fine with it.
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- jestershaw 15 years ago
  
  Yeah, thats funny, I have been here since early 2007 and I am way to busy to have a post count as high as 12,000...nothing wrong with it but I just wouldn't be able to spend the time.
  
  We should get rid of post count and any other rank classifier. Even the "thank you" is over used in my opinion. There should be two rankings, member and non-member.
  
  Just my opinion.
  
  Originally Posted by Onslaught
  
  I bet
  
  You are averaging about 10 posts a day, 7 days a week since you signed up.
  
  Did I just sit and figure that out? :rolleyes:
  
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peter gibson

15 years ago

Post counts are to forums as etch and sketch is to art.

I'm just sayin'.

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DavidTheMavin

15 years ago

Originally Posted by peter gibson

Post counts are to forums as etch and sketch is to art.

I'm just sayin'.

If this was me I'd get an infraction

I probably will for this post anyway so I better contribute.

1. Read
2. Look at number of thanks
3. Don't be swayed by post counts.

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peter gibson

15 years ago

Originally Posted by DavidTheMavin

If this was me I'd get an infraction

I probably will for this post anyway so I better contribute.

1. Read
2. Look at number of thanks
3. Don't be swayed by post counts.

Is it just me or does the word "infraction" call up the 9th circle of hell, complete with some sort of never ending pit of Interwebz Doom? OK, probably just me.

At any rate, to avoid Dante's Inferno, I will say this; Post count do carry certain weight around here, for a few reasons.

1. Some of the senior cats on this forum have no problem calling out an idiot. I'm thinking Steve W., Exrat, e.t.c... This I like, immensely. They are the gauge by which I measure foolishness.
2. Some of the senior cats here are my personal frikin heroes, people I know have the cahonas to walk the walk and talk the talk.
3. See #1.

There are so many knuckleheads offering heaps of crap advice and/or WSOs with 30 or below posts - well it can be unnerving for anyone new. If all the newbs have to go by are the stats, then stats have to make do. I guarantee that in my own short time here, I can't think of one person with over 300 posts that hasn't had their a$$ handed to them by the cooler members here - should they try to lay out ridiculous advice or obvious self promotion.

Also, for me, I look the most at the time people have spent here - both giving and receiving advice. If I see someone with 5 posts but they have been here since Miami Vice was on the air, I will give them some serious lattitude - for these are the wise and silent ones - and normally what they say is nothing short of brilliant.

However, if someone is trying to tell me how to spam via a bluehat technique on some goobers advice, and they have 8 posts and joined 5 minutes ago, well let's just say I tend to ignore them.

Or else I give them the dreaded infraction.

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adamv

15 years ago

Originally Posted by BlackWaterBlog

This. However, high post counts doesn't mean the member is well respected too. He or she could turn out to be a complete self-centered jerk.

I've been on some forums where people with high post counts constantly bashed on the people with lesser counts.

It's sad really, why take things like post count so serious in the first place?

Agreed, that's why I suggest that if people want a better way to judge someone they should do so by actually reading the posts people make rather than just looking at the number of posts.

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Kay King

15 years ago

Did the member break a forum rule - or did you issue an infraction because you didn't like what he said? If the latter, you shouldn't be surprised when he slaps back about it.

You made a judgment about something he posted to someone else - and he then made a judgment about your participation. Sounds like you're even.

On the plus side, you just made your first post of more than a couple lines. On the minus side, it was a rant. Post count doesn't matter much - post content does.

kay

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ExRat

15 years ago

Hi Onslaught,

I was just noticing a lot of so called "ballers" on here post 30-50 posts per day. Not short ones either...

What time do we work? It is far easier to be a know-it-all rather than
a do-it-all.

The fact you have 11 posts after a year shows your focus. Learn then apply.

I disagree. It's actually far easier to be a do-it-all.

If you try and be a know-it-all but it's just a front, you'll get stomped by a real know-it-all. The only way to be a genuine IM know-it-all is to have 'done-it-all'.

If you try and help people (whether it's about a specific task they can't do, or if it's explaining to them how to behave more wisely in order to get more help), call out BS, or just generally share good advice that others are charging for - you leave yourself wide open to criticism, especially the easy-to-make claim that you're 'trying to be a know-it-all.'

So perhaps a good guage of someone's contribution here is to look at what they do here and see how much of it is promotional compared to how much of it would fall into the 'thankless task' category. How much do they give and how much do they take? Are they trying to educate people, develop their own initiative and learn to self-educate? Are they providing short cuts for others that they have found the hard way for no reward?

Before people are too quick to to find criticism for those with high post count, and full of praise for those with low post and therefore 'focus', perhaps you should consider the above.

I see a ton of people here who only ever take, but don't appear to feel that they should ever give back. There is absolutely no mention or suggestion in the OP's post that there is any consideration of 'giving back', although he does give thanks for all the help that he has received.

There is no requirement here to 'give back' - it's a public forum - you don't need to sign up to read it all. But as a parent, I know the importance of setting a good example, even when you think that no-one is looking.

I suspect there are some around here who would learn a lot by showing their gratitude for the existence of this information resource with more than just a 'thankyou'. Instead they should try and do what needs to be done to maintain the standards here when they are under threat - like moderating, explaining things to people, offering their knowledge for no reward, protecting the more vulnerable people by calling others out.

It's a virtually thankless task and I guarantee that 99% of people wouldn't enjoy the consequences and the inevitable backlash from snotty anonymous entities.

The OP said -

One last point is that my time is limited in this forum due to me taking action on what I have gained from the IM community

There's something about that statement that sounds really selfish. Peter Gibson made some good points in #32 - thanks. I've been called a troll many times here and sometimes I've been guilty of it. But the times when I wasn't, demonstrate to me just how easy it is to throw that barb at the people who are going out on a limb to show their thanks for what they have received, rather than just saying it.

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15 years ago

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JeffLam

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Allen Graves

Not fine with me! I want 14,000 posts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's why I am responding here with plenty enough content to be considered a valid response, but at the same time not offering any true value whatsoever. It's really not hard to do if you sit down and think about the whole process of posting on Internet bulletin boards.

I sincerely hope that each and every one of you who are taking the time to read this particular thread in the forum can understand exactly what I am attempting to accomplish by writing this post.

Thanks for listening to what I had to say about this topic because not many people listen to what I have to say - and when they do it just makes my whole day, and if you've ever had someone make YOUR day then you know exactly what I'm talking about, right?

That's another one! Whew - only twelve and a half thousand more to go...

With all due respect,
AL

I LAUGHED out loud!

Anyways yeah I understand what you mean exactly though. It's really quite easy to make a long enough post without any substantial content.

That being said, I feel that post counts DO matter: thats probably why forums everywhere shows that stat! More post count = more time spent in this forum = higher chances of more exposure and experience and knowledge = more reputable.

UNLESS, that person is notorious of being a jerk.

However thanks to this forums, the stat for being thanked is a great tool to show a poster's reputation.

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Susan Hope

15 years ago

Originally Posted by ExRat

There is no requirement here to 'give back' - it's a public forum - you don't need to sign up to read it all. But as a parent, I know the importance of setting a good example, even when you think that no-one is looking.

Roger that highlighted bit above, so very true.. 100% agree with that, from experience as a parent and a grandparent.

Sorry for not adding value to this thread either but I just wanted to highlight that statement, brilliant!

Sue

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Harvey Segal 15 years ago

Originally Posted by peter gibson

1. Some of the senior cats on this forum have no problem calling out an idiot. I'm thinking Steve W., Exrat,

Hey - you can't call Steve W and Exrat idiots.

I'm giving you an infraction.

Harvey
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Allen Graves

15 years ago

Not fine with me! I want 14,000 posts!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's why I am responding here with plenty enough content to be considered a valid response, but at the same time not offering any true value whatsoever. It's really not hard to do if you sit down and think about the whole process of posting on Internet bulletin boards.

I sincerely hope that each and every one of you who are taking the time to read this particular thread in the forum can understand exactly what I am attempting to accomplish by writing this post.

Thanks for listening to what I had to say about this topic because not many people listen to what I have to say - and when they do it just makes my whole day, and if you've ever had someone make YOUR day then you know exactly what I'm talking about, right?

That's another one! Whew - only twelve and a half thousand more to go...

With all due respect,
AL

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homebasedmom

15 years ago

I have been around for some time right now, I have looked around this forum for more and more things to learn about. Sometimes I want to post a new thread asking "how and what?" etc etc...But I don't want my fellow warriors to think that I am just spamming or what, I just really want to learn more so that I would be ready when I enter the "world" of IM. More post or low post, as long as you have contributed something to help out a fellow warrior then it is good.

Thanks

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Matt Bard

15 years ago

Looks like I need to work on my ratios. Mine are 0.23 a day

Yeah, it was a one liner but following Allen's lead I can go on and add a little more here.

So, back when I was 10...

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David A Smith

15 years ago

Not me!

Did I just make a post?

Just kidding, it takes all kinds to make a community. Post when you feel
like it and don't when you don't.

I enjoy reading them all.

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George Wright

15 years ago

David,

66 posts in 7 years. Quit running up your post count!

George Wright

Originally Posted by David A Smith

Not me!

Did I just make a post?

Just kidding, it takes all kinds to make a community. Post when you feel
like it and don't when you don't.

I enjoy reading them all.

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John Taylor

15 years ago

Post count on it's own is not a useful
indicator, it's just a number.

However, when you see someone
with less than 30 posts contributing
nothing but one-liners in a short period
of time it alerts you to a potential
problem.

We can't eliminate post count, simply
because there are rules conditional
upon it.

John

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Kevin Riley 15 years ago

Originally Posted by John Taylor

Post count on it's own is not a useful
indicator, it's just a number.

And, as we can all see, post count hasn't made John Taylor any smarter or any better looking.
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- John Taylor 15 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Kevin Riley
  
  And, as we can all see, post count hasn't made John Taylor any smarter or any better looking.
  
  That's because it's impossible to improve on perfection
  but I can see why you'd be so jealous. I mean you look
  like a talent scout for a cemetery. :p
  
  John
  
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Steven Wagenheim

15 years ago

Originally Posted by John Taylor

Post count on it's own is not a useful
indicator, it's just a number.

However, when you see someone
with less than 30 posts contributing
nothing but one-liners in a short period
of time it alerts you to a potential
problem.

We can't eliminate post count, simply
because there are rules conditional
upon it.

John

John, you bring up a good point and I forgot about that.

So how about when a person reaches a certain number of posts, say,
1,000, their profile reads "Over 1,000 posts".

I don't know...just looking for answers to this post count ridiculousness
because on some level, it is absurd especially when you have some guy
who has absolutely no life and runs up his post count into the 10's of
thousands.

I mean what sane individual does that?

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jasonl70

15 years ago

one of the things cool about this forum is that post counts aren't such a big deal when compared to other forums.
New members may seem to think differently when they are called out for giving bad advice, but as far as I am concerned that is just an excuse for their ignoring what's being said.

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nitinjain

15 years ago

Since i was new to this forum what does the posts count really mean to. Does it give any credit to our contribution. I don't think so..

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Martin Luxton

15 years ago

One thing about having a high post count which includes many 'giving/contributing' posts is that, when you post one-liners, you are not perceived as a spammer.

High post count is important, not for the number, per se, but because it means you have a public, checkable track record. People can look through your previous posts and get a feel for you as a person. It also gives people a chance to look for inconsistencies that could be a red flag.

High post count + non-giving/negativity = Don't trust
High post count + giving/quality = Trust (with caution)

One person mentioned that people with a high post count look down on those with few posts to their name. I would appreciate some concrete examples of this.

What some might see as patronising behaviour might be nothing more than trying to teach something in an indirect way.

One thing that everybody on a forum has to bear in mind is that words are very powerful and, once released, they are on the internet forever. During my anti-guru phase, I said some things in anger that make me squirm when I come across them again.

This is why experienced members are often so quick to jump on sloppy thinking, misinformation and clueless rants. It's a kind of tough love. There's a lesson to be learnt for those who want to find it.

Martin

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Harvey Segal

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Martin Luxton

One person mentioned that people with a high post count look down on those with few posts to their name. I would appreciate some concrete examples of this.

I recall Steven Wagenheim (12,000 posts) arguing with Paul Myers (7,000 posts)

Harvey

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Goatboy 15 years ago

Originally Posted by nitinjain

Since i was new to this forum what does the posts count really mean to. Does it give any credit to our contribution. I don't think so..

Post count allows you to use the pm system and to offer WSOs, which apparently can make quite a bit of money. If you can raise a high post count, it will give your WSO offering a lot more authority.

As for myself, I still haven't come up with anything new to put in a WSO and I see no reason to rehash the same things that are openly available on the board and web. If I stumble across a brilliant idea of my own--which happens only once every 30 years--then I'll offer a WSO. I just really see no reason to follow the crowd and parrot the same things that everyone else is saying.
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Anthony Lex

15 years ago

Quote:
One last point is that my time is limited in this forum due to me taking action on what I have gained from the IM community

There's something about that statement that sounds really selfish.

It wasn't my intention for that to come across as being selfish, I just meant that all of us are in different circumstances in our businesses. I don't have much free time to contribute to the forum as I would like to as my focus is elsewhere.

I like to use this forum to discover more about the IM world, so I do more lurking than conrtibuting to this forum. When I can get my business to the point where I have more free time I would like to contribute more, and give back to this community.

I remember watching Eben Pagan speaking during a mass control seminar and he said that we need to be more selfish, when we can give more time for ourselves we will in turn have more to give to others. So I guess I'am being pretty selfish at the moment.

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Martin Luxton

15 years ago

Originally Posted by aamccall

I remember watching Eben Pagan speaking during a mass control seminar and he said that we need to be more selfish, when we can give more time for ourselves we will in turn have more to give to others. So I guess I'am being pretty selfish at the moment.

There is another aspect to contributing to forums that you could classify as selfish.

Before I joined the WF, I thought I was a pretty good writer.

Wrong!

Over the last 3 years, mostly through posting here, my writing skills have improved immensely. And, through interacting with people like Paul Myers and ExRat, I became a much better thinker with the ability to construct a logical argument.

Yes, on the one hand, I spent too much time here that I could have spent on my business. On the other hand, I cannot regret it because I learnt so much about writing (and life).

Martin

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ExRat

15 years ago

Hi aamccall,

We all don't have time to post to this forum.

But you do have time. You found time to start a new thread entitled 'who the hell cares about post counts!!!'

The whole crux of the post is to emphasis this point -

all i'm looking for is recognition that there are still good guys and gals out there who simply want to learn, or are putting time and effort into their own businesses. We all don't have time to post to this forum.

In brief - People who simply want to learn, put effort into their business, but don't have time to post are good guys/gals too.

I don't think you are so good. That's my point. You have two things right -

a) wanting to learn

b) working on your business

There is no c) give back in order to sustain the thing which helped you to - 'learn so much in such a short time' and 'achieve your goals in life'.

Don't you see that everything you wrote actually DOES emphasize the importance of post count (or more accurately, making some valuable posts - whatever the number.)

This thread has no value. In fact it's less than value-less. It's unhelpful, negative and twisted.

A question for you -

Those posts that you read that helped you to 'learn so much' and 'achieve your goals' - where did they come from?

Did Eben Pagan write them once he had found success?

No. He found other things to do like selling more information and making more money. But in fairness to him, he's not in here ranting and whingeing.

This -

When I can get my business to the point where I have more free time I would like to contribute more, and give back to this community.

...is a bare-faced outright lie. If you couldn't find the time to contribute while you were extracting valuable information, what on earth makes you think that we believe that you're suddenly going to switch into non-selfish mode when you find success and free time?

And to offer this as justification -

I remember watching Eben Pagan speaking during a mass control seminar and he said that we need to be more selfish, when we can give more time for ourselves we will in turn have more to give to others. So I guess I'am being pretty selfish at the moment.

Ummm...do you know what 'mass control' means? If so, why are you quoting what someone said there about being selfish as if it's some kind of justification?

If EVERYONE took your approach, how many pages of information would there be on this forum? None. Because we'd all be busy 'paying it backward.'

Do I have a particular gripe with anyone who doesn't contribute? No. As I said in my previous post there is no requirement to contribute. But when they have the audacity to come here and unload their negativity in a scattergun manner because someone dared to PM them after receiving an infraction, and justify this by saying 'I'm too busy to post here' - well I have a gripe with them, yes.

You start a new thread to have a rant at someone and tell them to get a life, and then to say the things you have done along with it, which in turn has led to others coming along and 'having their say' about how value-less post count is, along with the insinuations that obviously emanate from their comments (example - 'know-it-all' comments) totally pisses me off and compels me to point out all of the holes in your logic and justification. I don't ask for any gratitude if I have ever made a helpful post, although it is appreciated if I get it.

But I think a bit more respect is due to the people who helped you to learn and achieve your goals. They may not be high post count warriors, but they obviously didn't have the same values as you otherwise their assistance would never have been there for you in the first place.

I hope you realise that regardless of your gracious thankyous, the sum total of your effort here (apart from wasting pixels and encouraging others to have a selfish attitude) is simply to give those helpful people who helped you without recompense, reason to think twice before taking time away from their businesses to do the same thing again.

So in fact, you have actually proven that the person's comment in the private message was correct and that low post count CAN indicate something important. Nice epic fail.

People like you suck the life and the goodness out of communities. Get a life yourself - and while you're at it, get rid of your ENTITLEMENT ATTITUDE.

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Eric Lorence 15 years ago

Too many posts may also mean they have too much time on their hands...

The forum is nice, and a serious hobby for some, but reading and posting takes time.

I have to imagine many are too busy running their business to spend that much time here.

Just do a search for the countless members who cut their time on the forum to focus on doing exactly what this forum is about... making money.
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Anthony Lex

15 years ago

My reason for this post may have been taken out of context, as I didn't mean to cause offence. All I was doing was trying to get across that those with low post counts have many reasons for not posting, at least three people here found the thread meaningful.

To everyone else sorry for posting the thread if you have been offended and have found this thread a waste of pixels. I should have posted this in the off topic forum.

Back to lurking me thinks.

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ExRat 15 years ago

Hi Eric,

Too many posts may also mean they have too much time on their hands...

Would you care to elaborate on what you mean by -

a) 'too many posts'

b) 'too much time on their hands'

RE - b) We all get 24 hours a day don't we? So presumably, anyone who spends a little more time than others on the forum, unless they have some sort of issue that causes it, is making a conscious decision to spend more time on the forum than others.

So what is the point of your statement?

The forum is nice, and a serious hobby for some, but reading and posting takes time.

I have to imagine many are too busy running their business to spend that much time here.

I see many posts about automation and auto-pilot business. I've even made some myself.

The point I made above (you didn't address me directly but I'm answering as if you did anyway, because I disagreed with the guy who's post you thanked) wasn't so much that it would be better that other people spent more time on the forum or made more posts, it was that the time they DO spend on it, it would be appreciated more if there was more useful/positive/helpful/educational substance to it.

Just do a search for the countless members who cut their time on the forum to focus on doing exactly what this forum is about... making money.

It's also a discussion forum about making money.

If you leave that part out (IE the discussion and the education that derives from it) it's so much easier to justify a selfish attitude towards contributing and giving back. Have you never seen posts from successful people here, suggesting that to be successful, you can't just focus on making money, there has to be something else to it - for example, providing value? Are they lying? Are they mistaken?

Or is your point a totally moot one?

As I explained above -

If everyone adopted aamccall's attitude, there would never have been anything here for him to learn from and achieve his goals with in the first place.

Perhaps you are suggesting that someone like me, with a high post count, should stop posting any posts that are purely to try and help others and focus totally on only posting to 'make money?' If you're not suggesting that, perhaps you could elaborate on what your point is? (If you can spare the time of course).

Hi aammcall,

I appreciate the apology and also the fact that this all started because you were moderating - which is one of the best ways to give back.

I realise I didn't hold back on my opinion above, and I realise that you may well have received the flak on behalf of many others who have expressed similar thoughts, but not got both barrels.

But in fairness to myself -

All I was doing was trying to get across that those with low post counts have many resons for not posting

...you actually ended up doing a bit more than that, and the main reason you ended up providing was 'selfishness' - because 'Eben Pagan said it's OK to be like that.'

I hope you understand why I responded the way I did. No hard feelings - it's just a discussion, and I am involved here to learn as much as anyone else.

Shockingly, (to some) my high post count does not actually signify that I enjoy and make a habit of wasting time. I find the time to come here.
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- Steven Wagenheim 15 years ago
  
  To Paul, Roger and John Taylor:
  
  If you know me, you know by now that I am not a suck up. I've had more
  battles with you 3 than I care to admit to. I've acted like an ass and worse.
  
  I can honestly say that I greatly look forward to most of your insightful
  posts. John, you're not as long winded as Paul and Roger, but when you
  say something it cuts right to the chase and has so much meaning, unlike
  myself who, at times, has a habit of rambling on into the black night.
  
  If I could collect every post that these gentlemen have made here related to
  running a business and bound them in a book, I'd probably be one of the
  most knowledgeable marketers on the planet just from their posts alone.
  
  Post count does mean something when you actually have something to
  say. Otherwise, it's kind of like that crappy music (I use that term loosely)
  that you hear on those teeny bop stations that do nothing but fill up
  the airwaves with useless noise.
  
  I have been way too guilty of that myself.
  
  I guess what I am trying to say, to the rest of you, is to look at the
  quality of what one says. There are people here with fewer than 100
  posts who have said some incredible things. I won't mention their names
  here because I don't want to embarrass them.
  
  Just because one likes to speak a lot doesn't mean he has anything to say.
  
  There is an old Chinese proverb that everybody should take to heart.
  
  It goes like this.
  
  "Wise men speak because they have something to say; Fools because
  they have to say something."
  
  I have been guilty of the latter way too often.
  
  Post count by itself doesn't tell the whole story.
  
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  ExRat 15 years ago
  
  Hi Steven,
  
  Cheers. I would add that I'm not oblivious to the fact that many people don't like my bluntness, directness, sarcasm and at times, acid tongue.
  
  But we all have our own communication styles and I happen to believe that mine is the best way forward for me to get my point across.
  
  I would also add that there are quite a few other warriors, many of them who have been here a lot longer, who will tell me in the same direct manner that I use, if they think that I'm incorrect, unnecessarily harsh or rude, acting like an idiot - and many other things. Some of you will recall the many times that I have apologised.
  
  But within this thread, you will see many comments that cast indirect aspersions and make insinuations - and the insinuations that they make aren't too pleasant. The people who do this are often careful to keep those comments indirect - they don't aim it at any one named individual, just a vague group.
  
  It's quite clear that this is often done purely so that if someone rounds on them, they can try and wriggle out of any responsibility by resorting to wordplay, and then they often apply more insinuations and aspersions.
  
  Above all else, this gets my back up because it's unhelpful and not conducive to discussion that has a positive and productive outcome.
  
  And this is one of the reasons why I am even more direct, and I try to make sure that if I'm going to make an accusation, and make it firmly, that it's not done in a scattergun manner - therefore less people get caught in the crossfire, but it also gives me no wiggle room.
  
  I rarely selectively quote people for the purpose of twisting their words, and I try very hard not to twist their words at all - which of course, means that if I am to discuss vague insinuations, I leave myself open to the possibility of being challenged that I AM twisting words.
  
  I felt it prudent to add this here, so that readers can at least see some of the reasons why I take such a direct, blunt approach. It's not just because I enjoy being an argumentative troll - only partly
  
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  Steven Wagenheim 15 years ago
  
  ExRat;960866]
  Cheers. I would add that I'm not oblivious to the fact that many people don't like my bluntness, directness, sarcasm and at times, acid tongue.
  
  I'm not so sure about the acid tongue but I do know that there are many
  posts that you and Paul make that go right over my head. I'm a simple
  thinker and I say my peace simply. So when you guys get all philosophical
  and start using $20 college words, I am pretty much lost in the sauce.
  
  The only way for me to get my point across is to say it simply, which means,
  many times, that I have to use more words than you or Paul might use. As
  a matter of fact, Paul once commented that, when I said that I wished I
  could write like him (who wouldn't?) that my writing style was just different,
  not better or worse. The only thing he said that was really different was
  that I'd need to use more words to get my point across whereas he could
  make the same point, sometimes in a sentence.
  
  I have to admit, I love the way he can say one thing and it speaks
  volumes. I don't have that gift. So I go with what I can do. The upside
  to that is I've had very few people ever tell me that they didn't know
  what I was talking about.
  
  Anyway, sorry, I know this has nothing to do with what you just said,
  just be yourself Roger.
  
  My mother used to have a saying.
  
  "To thine own self be true."
  
  I didn't understand it when I was younger.
  
  I do now.
  
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ragstworiches

15 years ago

Perhaps if instead the post count was removed and your annual income was included, we would see who was successful and who was all talk.

This however would be far to crude, the best we can really on is to use the post count as an indicator of someone's knowledge in the field and see the content of what they write as the real value.

Phil

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Paul Buckley

15 years ago

Post count alone means little. Join date carries more weight with me. Actually, I factor all the information contained in the four lines below a posters name and avatar when forming an estimation of the value of a post.

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Simmvee

15 years ago

Well, right now for me post count means a lot. I can't so much as send a PM to anyone as of a little while ago.

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scattermouse

15 years ago

This isn't really a normal forum.

On most forums, having a massive post count means that you don't really have a life, and you're obsessed with that particular forum.

This is a business forum. Why wouldn't successful businesspeople want to interact with other successful businesspeople?

In the short time that I've been a member here, I've got more information to help me make money than at any other time in my life. Of course I'm going to try to give back to other members whenever I can.

On top of all that, a forum like this is a great place to network and find others who can help you grow your business.

Having said all that, I wouldn't judge people by their post count. I judge people by their posts, and by the relationships that they have with others.

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hugofortin

15 years ago

Hi,

Everybody use the forum for their own goals and needs. Everybody are different. We have to respect those differences.

bye

Hugo

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sogeshirts

15 years ago

This forum is basically loaded with great information no matter how high or small a persons post count is. I haven't seen too many threads that I haven't learned something from.

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Eric Lorence 15 years ago

Hello Roger,

The title of the thread is "Who cares about post counts?" and my response was to that.

I don't care about post counts, and that is the reason why.

If someone... anyone... has the time and inclination to spend that much time on a forum... any forum... so be it.

If they have achieved that much success that they can... more power to them.

Though for someone who has achieved such "great success", why be bothered by whom someone else "thanked" or that they have an opinion different from yours. It is a discussion after all.
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Nick818d

Banned 15 years ago

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Paul Myers 15 years ago

All I know is I gotta have 20 posts to respond to certain things. Why?

Hmmm. Unless Allen changed things, it's 15 for one function and 30 for some others. I know that one of the recent "reports" that included the Warrior Forum as a place to "make fast cash" said 20. That dude has probably been responsible for a whole lot of people getting banned from here.

Those limits were put in place to slow down the onslaught of crap from people who come here to take advantage of certain benefits that were intended originally for established members. They work with rational people most of the time, even if they annoy them. They're usually ignored by idiots and spammers, which is why running up your post count quickly often results in getting banned.

Paul

PS: I just re-checked. The "report" I was referring to actually said 10, not 20. Who's saying 20?
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- ERPConsultant 15 years ago
  
  How about putting posts of new members on hold so they don't appear until approved by a moderator in the forums where they now require to have min 30 posts to post? A newbie for example might want to post in the WSO forum to inquire about an offer. The rules can be set so that new threads in those forums cannot be started by a newbie.
  
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Troy_Phillips

15 years ago

I tend to listen to those with a higher post count a little more than someone with 4 post in which 2 is a one liner, one is a straight out ad and the other is a rant because they can't post a wso yet .

I came on here to learn as much as possible . I found that there was certain areas that I could give back in . Some things I don't know jack about .

Never did think about raising my post count just for the fact of raising it or for a wso ( haven't posted one yet )

Sometimes I reply with a few paragraphs . Other replies are admittedly one liners .

To those that seem to think that you can't be a serious Im and post a lot.. what type of business model have you set up for yourselves ?

The main reason I got into im was so I could have the time to do what I want and let the business run on autopilot as much as possible .

Would seem to me if your business is so time consuming that you can't spend a little time giving back, helping someone who is sincerely needing a little help , and even occasionally bull shitting with someone , then you might be better off jumping back into the rat race .

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ExRat

15 years ago

Hi Eric,

Nice wordplay (again).

You missed some questions - never mind.

If someone... anyone... has the time and inclination to spend that much time on a forum... any forum... so be it.

What does 'that much time' mean Eric? Some people have been coming to the forum for a really long time - much longer than me. (You see, I can do wordplay too. Pointless though, isn't it? More pointless than spending 'too much time' on a forum - if you're going to be on the forum at all, you might as well speak with clarity and say what you really think, eh?).

Though for someone who has achieved such "great success", why be bothered by whom someone else "thanked" or that they have an opinion different from yours. It is a discussion after all.

More wordplay. This is fun. Love the "great success" in quotes that you magically attributed to me.

I wasn't 'bothered' about who you thanked. I felt it prudent to point it out, because the intended target of your insinuations was so unclear.

Hi OnlineMasterMind,

BUT, most people netting 3K plus daily sure as hell don't have a 3K post count at any forum

Most people with about 350 posts are only earning crap money - like 3K a day or something.

90%+ of the people posting on forums with authority and high post counts still have a full time job and are probably posting from their job while their boss isn't looking.

100% of the people who hide behind anonymity on the forum work at McDonalds flipping burgers.

:p

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Harvey Segal 15 years ago

Originally Posted by ExRat

100% of the people who hide behind anonymity on the forum work at McDonalds flipping burgers.
:p

or flipping websites

Harvey
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- Paul Myers 15 years ago
  
  or flipping websites
  
  It's not always easy to tell the difference...
  
  "Sacred cash cows make the tastiest burgers."
  
  Paul
  
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  .
  Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.
  
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  ExRat 15 years ago
  
  Hi Paul,
  
  "Sacred cash cows make the tastiest burgers."
  
  Not always. The last one I bought had some offline mold on it.
  
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  1 reply
  
  Signature
  
  Roger Davis
  
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  Paul Myers 15 years ago
  
  Roger,
  
  Not always. The last one I bought had some offline mold on it.
  
  Yeah. That happens sometimes, when the bread is no good.
  
  Paul
  
  Thanks
  
  Signature
  
  .
  Stop by Paul's Pub - my little hangout on Facebook.
  
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kenboss

15 years ago

You'll never catch ME posting a one-liner! Oops!

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marmo

15 years ago

Post counts just basically mean to me nothing other then me getting to know something about you by what you posted here , the more posts you've made the more I could say learn about you , other then that post count means jack to me.

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Wrenny

15 years ago

I just need 30 post so I can....

oops. nah. gl bro. ;D

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Tom Brite

15 years ago

+1 post count for me w00t

Sorry had to post some newbie post count comment as it seems so fitting for this thread.

But what you say is true and that's why i left you a thanks.

Tom Brite

[ 1 ] Thanks

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gareth

15 years ago

I think I'm a perfect example that post count does not reflect marketing success.

Probably when I hit paydirt I'll finally shutup.

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Gary Killops 15 years ago

Post count doesn't mean a lot, however some of those who have posted a lot have some of the best quality post.

After you have been around here a while you come to recognize names so that when you see their post you know they will be good and worth reading. Some of these names have a few hundred post while others have thousands of post.

It's all about reputation rather than post counts in online forums.

Cheers!
Gary Killops
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Anthony Lex

15 years ago

Just came back to this thread to see whats happening, turns out from the recent comments this thread isn't as useless as I was lead to believe. Thank you Warriors for your support.

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ChrisBa

15 years ago

post count means jack.

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Ben_Curtis

15 years ago

I look at post count myself, but I also look at Join Date, both of which I kind of calculate as to the probable value of the posts. I've noticed certain mugs appear time and again, and many of same have words of wisdom to impart. I skim a lot of threads/posts, but usually read the posts of the "old guard," and learn lots from them. So, I'd like to see both those stats remain.

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SolarFelineAU

15 years ago

Originally Posted by Ben_Curtis

I look at post count myself, but I also look at Join Date, both of which I kind of calculate as to the probable value of the posts. I've noticed certain mugs appear time and again, and many of same have words of wisdom to impart. I skim a lot of threads/posts, but usually read the posts of the "old guard," and learn lots from them. So, I'd like to see both those stats remain.

I concur.

As a newbie to this forum, I look to the content of a post. I look to the post count of a poster, but that is not the only criteria that I use to ascertain the usefulness of a post to me.

I look to see the join date of the poster as well.

If someone has been on this forum for many years, and has a high post count, and has something instructive and enlightened to post, then my respect for them is high.

If someone, no matter how long they have been here, has something useful to say, that is something that matters to me as well.

SolarFelineAU

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DotComBum

15 years ago

For me the post count is nothing, it's more important that you are really here to share your ideas and experiences.

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TheMole

15 years ago

I have a suggestion. Penalize someones post count if the post is not contributing value. This is my one pet peeve on this forum. A person will ask (genuine example): "Are there any universities that presents a course in internet marketing?" And the answers are:
1. I don't know but will like to know.
2. Why do you need a university, you can learn all you need to know on this forum.
3. etc...etc...etc...
Geeezzz get with the program and answer the post for crying out load!!

[ 1 ] Thanks

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alanmag1983

Banned 15 years ago

[DELETED]

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Kay King 15 years ago

Posting that you sent a private message will often be deleted - the person who gets the message will have a popup so will know about it. It's useless "I pm'd you" posts that resulted in some of these restrictions. We've all had posts deleted - they are posts, not literature for the ages.

I have to say that recently I have been really frustrated with this forum...

Would be quite recent as you joined 13 days ago. Your posts seem to have been well received so why put yourself in the group who post only to complain?

kay
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gyar29

15 years ago

Online communities are not much different than offline communities. Anytime someone new moves into the neighborhood those neighbors that are established in the community judge the newbie. And are also judged by the newbie.

The difference between the two is that the established member already has their own reputation within the community and therefore has the luxury of time. They do not need to quickly make judgments of the newbie. They can comfortably sit back and see how the new guy fits in.

The newbie must find someway to quickly categorize existing members. They must determine who they should interact with, those they should reserve judgment of, and those they should ignore. Unfortunately or fortunately -who's to judge- post counts, # of thanks, and join date are the tools that are supplied by the forum for someone just entering the community to make those determinations.

The newbie will eventually make adjustments to their initial determinations based on their experience with the words and actions of the members.

So do post counts matter? Sure they do, but the more experience we have with those things that really matter the less weight we give them when making judgments of our neighbors.

Eventually we find that we pay no attention whatsoever to those numbers. I rarely even think to look at them...

Except when someone posts something really dumb, then I look at them to see if the post was made by a newbie. If so, I understand a little latitude may be in order, after all they're just trying establish their own place in our community. Giving them the benefit of the doubt for a little while is just being a good neighbor. And I know that someone with many more posts than I will help guide them through the rough time when they are attempting to get established.

Gene

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hugofortin

15 years ago

Originally Posted by gyar29

Online communities are not much different than offline communities. Anytime someone new moves into the neighborhood those neighbors that are established in the community judge the newbie. And are also judged by the newbie.

The difference between the two is that the established member already has their own reputation within the community and therefore has the luxury of time. They do not need to quickly make judgments of the newbie. They can comfortably sit back and see how the new guy fits in.

The newbie must find someway to quickly categorize existing members. They must determine who they should interact with, those they should reserve judgment of, and those they should ignore. Unfortunately or fortunately -who's to judge- post counts, # of thanks, and join date are the tools that are supplied by the forum for someone just entering the community to make those determinations.

The newbie will eventually make adjustments to their initial determinations based on their experience with the words and actions of the members.

So do post counts matter? Sure they do, but the more experience we have with those things that really matter the less weight we give them when making judgments of our neighbors.

Eventually we find that we pay no attention whatsoever to those numbers. I rarely even think to look at them...

Except when someone posts something really dumb, then I look at them to see if the post was made by a newbie. If so, I understand a little latitude may be in order, after all they're just trying establish their own place in our community. Giving them the benefit of the doubt for a little while is just being a good neighbor. And I know that someone with many more posts than I will help guide them through the rough time when they are attempting to get established.

Gene

Really interesting post! I enjoyed it! That comparaison is so true.

bye

Hugo

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Eric Stanley

15 years ago

I agree with the above statements. I have seen GOLDEN information from people who have 10 posts and garbage posts from some Warrior's with 2,000+. I have also learned to not consider post count either when it comes to RESPECTING fellow warriors.

Some of my best customers and JV partners have come from people with extremely low post counts. They were just looking for the right information. If I were to blow off every PM from a person with a 4 post count, I don't know where I'd be today.

A word to the wise: Don't just shrug anyone off due to a low post count, and do not blindly trust somebody that has an extremely high post count either. Take all information with a grain of salt and consider your own findings and research!

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