Where is the Income You are Making Online coming from ? Scheme or Business ??

9 years ago

Totally agree...I call this the tactics versus business model dilemma. Way too many new entrepreneurs are enticed by tactics without having a full understanding and plan around their business model which includes a) What value you bring to the market and how b) Who your market and ideal customers is and c) What your unique differentiator will be that will allow you to stand out from the masses of competition

Once you have certainty around these 3 elements, you can then move toward a tactical plan and execute to achieve the business model objectives

Jeff

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The Niche Man 9 years ago

Good reminder. Many people think their in a business when they're really in a money making scheme. I'd venture to wager the majority of people who first get into I.M fall in that category at one point or another along the way. I know I did.

The very reason many people get into I.M is because they need money quick. Because of a layoff, work hours reduced or being blind-sided by an increased monthly expense. Or all of the above.

So, a money making plan or scheme is the obvious choice for many. The major problem are the ones who stay in that mindset and just bounce from one "online scheme" or plan to the next. Never exerting the time, effort or small investment it takes to start and run an "online business". Good share.
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onSubie

9 years ago

Whats a scheme :
Here are a few examples off the top of my head................
1. Buying software to auto post on Craigslist, Facebook and many other various social media outlets

How is that a scheme?

2. Buying 10,000s back links from a back link service to try to send traffic to your Adsense Site.

Nobody buys backlinks for traffic. They buy them for SEO.

Since this doesn't work it is hardly a scheme.

The scheme is SELLING the backlinks, not buying them

3. Paid surveys

Again, I don't know how this is a scheme. Many legitimate companies use paid surveys to gather market information.

I don't see how offering an incentive to get your customers to provide you information about themselves is a scheme.

I also do not see how participating in the survey in return for the nominal reward is a scheme.

4. Handing out flyers at colleges putting them on students' desk with CPA ofers printed on the links to sign up for a free I-pad ( cough cough... yes. I did this a number of years ago cough cough

)

Again, flyer advertising is not a scheme. I don't see how you can say handing flyers out at a university is a scheme but PPC is not.

5. " making $1,000 a day starting tomorrow "

Well, if you want a job making $1,000 a day and you can code Java I can give you one tomorrow. I know a few places that are desperate for consultants and $1,000/day is not the top contract.

$1,000 is not a large amount of money. To say making $1,000 a day is a scheme would depend on what you are doing to make that $1,000 a day.

2. Email Marketing

I think it is weird that you say a company using paid surveys to reach people is scheming but companies that spam email are not.

3. Services - SEO, Copy, writing, video editing

Weird that buying backlinks is a scheme but SEO is not.

When SEO "by definition" is against Google's ToS.

People throw around words like, scheme, scam, unethical for anything that doesn't fit within their blinkered view of the world.

Open your eyes and see that the devil is in the details and it isn't always WHAT is done but HOW it is done that makes something unethical.

So HOW you send email (bulk, vs opt-ins, vs spam, vs broker list) determines if it is a scheme.

You can't just blanket say "Sending email is not a scheme but buying backlinks is a scheme"

Although you did in this post.

Thanks
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discrat

9 years ago

Originally Posted by onSubie

How is that a scheme?

Nobody buys backlinks for traffic. They buy them for SEO.

Since this doesn't work it is hardly a scheme.

The scheme is SELLING the backlinks, not buying them

Again, I don't know how this is a scheme. Many legitimate companies use paid surveys to gather market information.

I don't see how offering an incentive to get your customers to provide you information about themselves is a scheme.

I also do not see how participating in the survey in return for the nominal reward is a scheme.

Again, flyer advertising is not a scheme. I don't see how you can say handing flyers out at a university is a scheme but PPC is not.

Well, if you want a job making $1,000 a day and you can code Java I can give you one tomorrow. I know a few places that are desperate for consultants and $1,000/day is not the top contract.

$1,000 is not a large amount of money. To say making $1,000 a day is a scheme would depend on what you are doing to make that $1,000 a day.

I think it is weird that you say a company using paid surveys to reach people is scheming but companies that spam email are not.

Weird that buying backlinks is a scheme but SEO is not.

When SEO "by definition" is against Google's ToS.

People throw around words like, scheme, scam, unethical for anything that doesn't fit within their blinkered view of the world.

Open your eyes and see that the devil is in the details and it isn't always WHAT is done but HOW it is done that makes something unethical.

So HOW you send email (bulk, vs opt-ins, vs spam, vs broker list) determines if it is a scheme.

You can't just blanket say "Sending email is not a scheme but buying backlinks is a scheme"

Although you did in this post.

Your rebuttals are clearly based on Semantics !

I am not going to waste my time with many of your individual points which to be quite honest are very weak !

So Let me clarify this , Sir.

For me, a Scheme is something that is a temporary plan not really a viable way of income with long term sustainability.

Did I say a scheme is bad ??

Hell No.

You need to look up the definition of the word Scheme. Used as a Noun ,it has nothing to do with being legitmate or not....like you try to erroneously point out.

My whole point was about strategically aligning expectations with your particular actions and then trying to move forward.in a productive, long term profitable manner from this analysis.

Sending out 10,000 backlinks can give you a boost in temporary income with temporary high SERPs. I have done it awhile back and many still do it.

But it is TEMPORARY. Hence the word Scheme

Thanks
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onSubie

9 years ago

It's funny when someone makes a bunch of poor generalizations and then defends their position by saying critics are playing semantics.

If so, I was using your words, sir!

You have been here longer than I have and I do not assume this post is the extent of your knowledge.

I was merely pointing out that this is a typical "rant" post that uses inaccurate generalizations to boost a vague point and then is defended not by elucidation but by saying critics are playing semantics.

Thanks
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discrat

9 years ago

Originally Posted by onSubie

It's funny when someone makes a bunch of poor generalizations and then defends their position by saying critics are playing semantics.

If so, I was using your words, sir!

You have been here longer than I have and I do not assume this post is the extent of your knowledge.

I was merely pointing out that this is a typical "rant" post that uses inaccurate generalizations to boost a vague point and then is defended not by elucidation but by saying critics are playing semantics.

subie, you crack me up

Every single point you made was based upon the assertion that a "scheme" was not a legitimate way to make money.

You mistakenly thought that I was also implying that the word 'Scheme' as meaning this too. lol

I do NOT. ( sorry you made this false assumption)

Nothing wrong with Schemes. But apparently you think there is.

Is that not an inaccurate poor generalization in of itself ??

All I am saying is if you want to pursue an Online Business as a full time endeavor stay away from the 'Schemes'
( my definition)

P.S. I am still dying to know is that really what you think true SEO is all about ??

Thanks
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Alexa Smith Banned 9 years ago

I agree with the OP.

I think there are always quite a lot of "semantic points" involved in such discussions, which unfortunately - but inevitably - makes their premises easy both to misunderstand and to challenge.

The terms I generally use, myself, in making very similar points, are those describing the difference between "a series of hits-and-runs" and "a real, asset-based business". The languge is all a little subjective and impressionstic. The underlying point, however is very real and very valid.

.
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- discrat 9 years ago
  
  Alexa,
  I like 'hit and run'. That is really a poignant way to say it
  
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- iAmNameLess 9 years ago
  
  Originally Posted by Alexa Smith
  
  "a real, asset-based business".
  
  This... yes. I think that's where the confusion is for a lot of people in internet marketing, not just this thread. Schemes aren't bad, and how you put it as a hit and run or a series of them isn't necessarily bad either. There are many asset based businesses that still have hit and runs as well.
  
  I think Subie took issue with the word scheme, in a negative light.
  
  I see how you presented it as scheme = temporary, not sustainable or requiring consistent effort to get the same results, not passive at all... Versus.. An asset-based business like Alexa said, which grows with the effort put in, can be passive, can be long term and probably less risk.
  
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onSubie

9 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

subie, you crack me up

My usual goal...

Every single point you made was based upon the assertion that a "scheme" was not a legitimate way to make money.

You mistakenly thought that I was also implying that the word 'Scheme' as meaning this too.

You are correct- I was harsher than necessary assuming you were using "scheme" and "scam" interchangeably.

But my main criticism was meant to point out that broad generalizations about things like email, ad buys and SEO do not provide value.

You are either going to get people who just go "Right on, man" without any critical thinking about what was actually said.

Or people (like me) are going to argue over details and semantics (because these are important if you actually want to implement anything as opposed to hanging out in a forum going 'right on, man')

I have noticed that if you keep big long WF posts to vague rants and polarizing assumptions then the thread grows and stays at the top of the forum.

If you provide real value with implementable details and actionable steps, then these thread gets deleted.

Re: SEO - all I meant was that SEO is not "one thing" and to say buying backlinks is a scheme but SEO is not was the height of generalization.

Thanks
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discrat

9 years ago

Originally Posted by onSubie

Or people (like me) are going to argue over details and semantics (because these are important if you actually want to implement anything as opposed to hanging out in a forum going 'right on, man')

I have noticed that if you keep big long WF posts to vague rants and polarizing assumptions then the thread grows and stays at the top of the forum.

If you provide real value with implementable details and actionable steps, then these thread gets deleted.

Re: SEO - all I meant was that SEO is not "one thing" and to say buying backlinks is a scheme but SEO is not was the height of generalization.

I hear you Subie.

But truth be told 5 years ago this was a very big issue with me. Really !!

it wasn't till I figured out that trying to do "schemes" ( hit and runs as Alexa pointed out so aptly

) was a HUGE waste of my time.

Two of those Schemes I listed were HUGE time sucks for me ,personally ( EDIT: actually three..paid surveys, flyers, and 10,000 backlinks)

I understand what you are saying about the thing where people are posting in the Main Forum ......things like 'general feel good' or vague Posts that have been rehashed over and over again. And Posts that are not really detailed oriented to help out others in a constructive, real manner.

Believe me I get that.

But there are some Posts and experiences that are kind of 'general' but nonetheless have a lot of intrinsic value in them.

One of the reasons I wrote this Post was an incident that happened in the last few days .

I made a sarcastic remark that if someone wanted to make money and not run a business then just PM me and I will give them you them a list of Paid Surveys they could do.

Well guess what ? Someone actually PMed me. I told them I was being humorous. But she still wanted a List of Paid Surveys anyway.

I gave them to her but told her the amount of money she would make will not be worth the effort.

So I guess this kind of compelled me to write this Post and let newbies know .

It really is a huge problem and it annoys the hell out of me to see it going on and on.

It does not bother me to see people say they want to make extra money doing these ' hit and runs' but when they say they are trying to make a full time business out of it..

...that is what gets me.

Some times you have to keep hitting them over the head again and again to get it to sink in. Thats the way I was years back. lol

But I feel you on the detailed stuff. I save most of that for the Email Marketing Forum

Have a good one

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onSubie 9 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

But I feel you on the detailed stuff. I save most of that for the Email Marketing Forum

Yes, sub-forums are the way to go, but they seem rather empty. Offline is a good one too.

There is another top thread in the Main Forum "The Magic System that Makes $1000 a Day Guaranteed" that is an example of my point that generic ranty posts get the most attention over truly valuable ones.

But I think that is more an indictment of the current state of WF than any individual poster.

Not that all rant posts are bad, but that seems to be the only way to make any kind of a point around here these days.

Have a good one

You as well!
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discrat 9 years ago

Originally Posted by onSubie

Weird that buying backlinks is a scheme but SEO is not.

When SEO "by definition" is against Google's ToS.

.

Wierd, you have been here over 4 years and this is the extent of your knowledge of SEO.

Wow talking about "blanketing" a whole Industry.

Good grief
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ninosem

9 years ago

I start make living from email marketing....

Now my main focus is:

- Show others it’s possible for them.

- Showing others how to duplicate my results because I’m no one special, even
English is my second language

Once I switched my focus to help others my income start grow even faster.
I created a business I loved and I feel excited to get out of bed every
single morning.

Sound like a good way to make a living....

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Brent Stangel

9 years ago

I'm going to jump in and say I do both.

Kind of like putting 80% on known horses that just keep dependably plodding along and keeping 20% to jump on horses that burst out of the gate and run really hard for a short time.

I've made quite a bit lately, riding really fast horses...

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discrat

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Brent Stangel

I'm going to jump in and say I do both.

Kind of like putting 80% on known horses that just keep dependably plodding along and keeping 20% to jump on horses that burst out of the gate and run really hard for a short time.

I've made quite a bit lately, riding really fast horses...

lol

yeah I had a few schemes going for awhile. My friend trained me on Stanford Wong's approach to counting cards (Blackjack) back in 94'

I got pretty darn swift with it. I made some money overall but not a whole lot.

My Friend Ed literally made it his Living for over 6 years.

Rob ( blackjack card counting)- Scheme
His friend Ed ( blackjack card counting) - A business

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EJ Lear

9 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

1. Buying software to auto post on Craigslist, Facebook and many other various social media outlets

Hi Andrew,

If you would be so kind would you please give us your personal test results that back up your statements?

AirBNB build a BILLION dollar business with exactly this tactic.

Many thanks!

Peace,
E

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NeedBucksNow

9 years ago

Awesome post. I totally agree with what you said & more than likely all you're going to do is waste a bunch of time and money on advertising and not make anything back from trying to market a "get rich" scheme. I've been there & done this myself & always wondered why I never made any money at it. It wasn't until I found the forum and started seeing what really works that it started to pay off for me

Originally Posted by discrat

I think it is important for many online marketers particularly newbies to identify and reflect what they are doing in their online endeavors and where do they want to go with it.

I see a lot of newbies here talking about making money online and that they want to make it a full time gig.

The problem is they are getting confused on the parameters in which they are assessing their goals and dreams.

Which brings me to this.

If you want to make this Online Marketing a full time career you need to get out of the "Scheme" mindset.

Whats a scheme :
Here are a few examples off the top of my head................
1. Buying software to auto post on Craigslist, Facebook and many other various social media outlets
2. Buying 10,000s back links from a back link service to try to send traffic to your Adsense Site.
3. Paid surveys
4. Handing out flyers at colleges putting them on students' desk with CPA offers printed on them to sign up for a free I-pad ( cough cough... yes. I did this a number of years ago cough cough

)
5. " making $1,000 a day starting tomorrow "

Like I said these our schemes to make some money. And they are not necessarily illegal or unethical.

But if you want to concentrate on real businesses that give a legit shot at creating a long term income online concentrate on these ....
1. Affiliate Marketing (done right)
2. Email Marketing
3. Services - SEO, Copy, writing, video editing
4. Info. Publishing
5. Speaking

If you want to pay for Gifts this Christmas and make extra money go for the 'Schemes.'

If you want a legit shot at creating or forming real Wealth go with the latter

- Robert Andrew

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JosephC

9 years ago

Originally Posted by discrat

If you want to pay for Gifts this Christmas and make extra money go for the 'Schemes.'

If you want a legit shot at creating or forming real Wealth go with the latter

Darn Straight.

The two problems I faced when I was new were

1. I though "schemes" were ways to long term success
2. I thought I would make money quickly with a business.

It took me one month to make my first $100 online but that method of wealth ended after about two months. It took me 6 months to make my first $1000 with website design and now I still have that source of income 1 year later. I wish I never wasted my time with "schemes" but it is different for everyone.

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Where is the Income You are Making Online coming from ? Scheme or Business ??

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