Jeff Paul, John Beck, & Other Infomercials Charged by FTC July 1

94 replies
Hey, don't know how I missed this:

Looks like the FTC has mounted a big crackdown and gone after 15 biz-opp infomercials for alleged scams. They include some pretty famous infomercials....

like Jeff Paul's "Shortcuts to Internet Millions" infomercial, John Beck's "Free & Clear Real Estate System", John Alexander's "Real Estate Riches in 14 Days" and , plus other biz ops and real estate deals.

here's the FTC link: Federal Trade Commission v. John Beck Amazing Profits, LLC, a California limited liability company, et al

_____
Bruce
#beck #charged #ftc #infomercials #jeff #john #july #paul
  • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
    Yeah, I was reading about this ealier...

    From the looks of it, Uncle Sam is looking to kick a little ass.

    FTC Cracks Down on Scammers Trying to Take Advantage of the Economic Downturn
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  • Profile picture of the author Alice Seba
    Can they also crack down on the spam Jeff Paul's organization sends to my blog?

    Back on the topic. This sounds like what other Internet marketers we may know do too:

    "The defendants allegedly made false and unsubstantiated claims about potential earnings for users of these systems. They used frequently aired infomercials to sell the systems for $39.95 and then contacted the purchasers via telemarketing to offer "personal coaching services," which cost several thousand dollars and purportedly would enhance their ability to earn money quickly and easily using the systems. In addition, all purchasers were signed up for continuity programs that cost an additional $39.95 per month, but which were not adequately disclosed to consumers. Some consumers also continued receiving unwanted sales calls after they told the defendants' telemarketers to stop calling."
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    • Profile picture of the author Lance K
      Those guys are in some BIG RISK, BIG REWARD markets. It will be interesting to see what comes of it.

      It's hard to predict. Didn't the FTC go after Enzyte not too long ago? But just the other night, I saw "Smilin' Bob" back on my TV. I haven't followed that case so I don't know what happened. Just that Enzyte is running commercials again.
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      • Profile picture of the author Bill Jeffels
        Originally Posted by Lance K View Post

        Those guys are in some BIG RISK, BIG REWARD markets. It will be interesting to see what comes of it.

        It's hard to predict. Didn't the FTC go after Enzyte not too long ago? But just the other night, I saw "Smilin' Bob" back on my TV. I haven't followed that case so I don't know what happened. Just that Enzyte is running commercials again.
        Hey Lance,

        The owner of Enzyte, Steven Warshak was sentenced to 25 years in prison.

        His business Berkely Premium Nurtraceuticals was sold to a private company. Steve was ordered to forfeit over 500 million dollars.

        So, for the next 25 years Steve will be in prison getting a different kind of "Natural Male Enhancement".

        Take care,

        Bill Jeffels

        P.S. Steve was convicted of mail fraud, bank fraud and money laundering. Also, he had his 75 year old mother in on the deal, and she got 2 years in prison.
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        • Profile picture of the author JoMo
          Originally Posted by Bill Jeffels View Post

          Hey Lance,
          ...
          So, for the next 25 years Steve will be in prison getting a different kind of "Natural Male Enhancement".

          Take care,
          ...

          LMMFAO!!! I always hated those commercials.
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          • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
            I didn't really think the continuity was really hidden with a lot of these offers so, it would suck if the continuity was the cause...

            If that was it, basically a bunch of people are getting picked up because people ordering products online are too illiterate to actually read the terms and conditions.
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            • Profile picture of the author Bill Jeffels
              Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

              I didn't really think the continuity was really hidden with a lot of these offers so, it would suck if the continuity was the cause...

              If that was it, basically a bunch of people are getting picked up because people ordering products online are too illiterate to actually read the terms and conditions.
              Vincent James would not stop charging your credit card, even if you did phone and canel your "membership".

              Thousands of people actually had to cancel their credit cards altogether just to get the payments to stop.

              Regards

              Bill Jeffels
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              • Profile picture of the author ppcpimp
                ^^That in itself is criminal.

                But I have been to all of these sites in the past and I found the disclosures. Maybe the people that called in from just watching the commercial did not receive a disclosure.

                Originally Posted by Bill Jeffels View Post

                Vincent James would not stop charging your credit card, even if you did phone and canel your "membership".

                Thousands of people actually had to cancel their credit cards altogether just to get the payments to stop.

                Regards

                Bill Jeffels
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              • Profile picture of the author FlightGuy
                Last night I stayed up a bit and caught Jeff Paul's "Shortcuts to Internet Millions" infomercial.

                Wow. What an absolute load of crap. It's amazing how easy it is to see through his crap. Maybe it's because I'm involved with internet marketing, but I'd like to think anyone with half a brain could see through that infomercial.

                I just don't understand how peoples red flags don't go up after seeing nothing but sexy babes, Lamborghini's, HORRIBLY scripted (and acted) testimonials, locale, and pitch heavy, claim making narrations.

                It's like all the FTC would need to present in front of a competent court would be that infomercial for them to really lay down some charges.

                And we thought certain subject lines of emails were scamming... this makes those marketers look like saints.

                Kindest,
                John Dennis
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                • Profile picture of the author Lance K
                  Originally Posted by FlightGuy View Post

                  Last night I stayed up a bit and caught Jeff Paul's "Shortcuts to Internet Millions" infomercial.

                  I just don't understand how peoples red flags don't go up after seeing nothing but sexy babes...
                  So you watched it and you still choose to use the description "sexy babes"?

                  I just threw up in my mouth.
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            • Profile picture of the author psresearch
              Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

              I didn't really think the continuity was really hidden with a lot of these offers so, it would suck if the continuity was the cause...

              If that was it, basically a bunch of people are getting picked up because people ordering products online are too illiterate to actually read the terms and conditions.
              It depends on when you looked at the offers. Many of the products - like Google Money Tree and quite a few others on the list started changing their continuity disclosure placement once they suspected (or knew) that the FTC had a case file open on them.

              Also, the FTC sometimes treats the disclosure differently depending on the demographic market. Many of the recent grant offers were targeting a less educated and internet savvy market, so the FTC likely would tend to lean more heavily in the consumers' favor than something like an internet marketer targeting an internet marketing audience.

              "Second, we examine the practice from the perspective of a consumer acting reasonably in the circumstances. If the representation or practice affects or is directed primarily to a particular group, the Commission examines reasonableness from the perspective of that group."

              - From the FTC policy statement on deception

              The FTC also talks about "net effect" to consumers, so I asked Lesley Fair - an attorney in the FTC's division of Consumer and Business Education how the FTC determines "net effect" to consumers and this is how she explained it:

              "Hi, Mr. Schlegel. You raise an interesting question about how the FTC determines the "net impression." Because the FTC deals daily with the question of what's deceptive, the Supreme Court has said that it has the expertise in most cases to make that determination: "As an administrative agency which deals continually with cases in the area, the Commission is often in a better position than are courts to determine when a practice is deceptive within the meaning of the Act. This Court has frequently stated that the Commission's judgment is to be given great weight by reviewing courts. This admonition is especially true with respect to allegedly deceptive advertising since the finding of a violation in this field rests so heavily on inference and pragmatic judgment."

              Sometimes the process depends on whether it's an express claim or a subtler implied claim. Here's how the United States Court of Appeals described the process in Kraft v. FTC: "In determining what claims are conveyed by a challenged advertisement, the Commission relies on two sources of information: its own viewing of the ad and extrinsic evidence. Its practice is to view the ad first and, if it is unable on its own to determine with confidence what claims are conveyed in a challenged ad, to turn to extrinsic evidence. The most convincing extrinsic evidence is a survey of what consumers thought upon reading the advertisement in question, but the Commission also relies on other forms of extrinsic evidence including consumer testimony, expert opinion, and copy tests of ads."



              One of the best summaries of what makes an advertising claim deceptive us the FTC's long-standing Deception Policy Statement: www.ftc.gov/bcp/policystmt/ad-decept.htm
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            • Profile picture of the author Sam Smith
              Originally Posted by Jeremy Kelsall View Post

              I didn't really think the continuity was really hidden with a lot of these offers so, it would suck if the continuity was the cause...

              If that was it, basically a bunch of people are getting picked up because people ordering products online are too illiterate to actually read the terms and conditions.

              Woah there Jeremy.

              Hiding something in the small print = not having it there at all.

              Who honestly reads those things? A 22 page contract to buy a mobile phone, a marketing DVD, every computer programme. (Even sometimes to use a website).

              This is NOT the consumer's fault, and definitely doesn't make them "illiterate".


              Deliberately hiding stuff where they know customers will skim, for that exact reason = scam.

              Customers should be fully aware 100% of the time of charges they're paying.
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              • Profile picture of the author Alan Petersen
                It's these guys that give us all a bad name. I'm glad they're getting a thumping but I do agree though that Jeff Paul and these other crooks are just chum in the water for the FTC. It's open season on business now and the good ones will also be caught in the feeding frenzy.

                But I'm upset at the Jeff Paul's out there than the FTC.
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              • Profile picture of the author Adam G. Katz
                Originally Posted by Sam Smith View Post

                Woah there Jeremy.

                Hiding something in the small print = not having it there at all.

                Who honestly reads those things? A 22 page contract to buy a mobile phone, a marketing DVD, every computer programme. (Even sometimes to use a website).

                This is NOT the consumer's fault, and definitely doesn't make them "illiterate".


                Deliberately hiding stuff where they know customers will skim, for that exact reason = scam.

                Customers should be fully aware 100% of the time of charges they're paying.
                Hi, Sam.

                I respectfully disagree. And so do the courts.

                Have you ever parked in an underground parking garage and received the time-stamp ticket as you drive in? Ever look at the back of the ticket?

                Have you ever purchased a house in the U.S. and read (and understood?) every word of every page on the contract and accompanying disclaimers -- including the HOA? What about the civic laws pertaining to property ownership in your town?

                Small print is endemic to living in a country the operates under the rule of law.

                I think that the real issue here is that the "small print" wasn't (allegedly) offered to the customer, pre-sale.
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                • Profile picture of the author JohnB23
                  On the topic of scams, have you seen this video (spoof). Pretty funny, of Don Lapre, hahahaha.

                  (warning, a little bit of offensive language at :30-:42)


                  Don Wupwabe's Magical Money Geyser System.

                  This guy nails it.
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                  • Profile picture of the author igrowyourbiz
                    Originally Posted by Adam Bshero View Post

                    Just a quick question.

                    1) How does this FTC case with Jeff Paul and the rest differ than say some IM gurus?

                    2) What are they doing to not be attacked by the FTC? Earnings Disclaimer?

                    1) It doesn't

                    2) Not enough complaints

                    ...yet



                    i could think of some names though:rolleyes:
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          • Profile picture of the author Richard Tunnah
            One of the first info products I got in 96 I think was a Jeff Paul audio set. Thought it was pretty good. However he seems to have turned to hard selling recently - like making it hard to un-subscribe to the hundreds of lists he places you one when you subscribe. Sounds like his info commercials are 'fun' but not living in the US I've never seen them!

            Rich
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      • Profile picture of the author Floyd Fisher
        Originally Posted by Lance K View Post

        Those guys are in some BIG RISK, BIG REWARD markets. It will be interesting to see what comes of it.

        It's hard to predict. Didn't the FTC go after Enzyte not too long ago? But just the other night, I saw "Smilin' Bob" back on my TV. I haven't followed that case so I don't know what happened. Just that Enzyte is running commercials again.
        Enzyte was never actually shut down, just some of the principals hauled off to jail.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
    Act properly and be upfront with your customers and don't make false claims and you won't have anything to worry about.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bill Jeffels
    Originally Posted by brucerby View Post

    Hey, don't know how I missed this:

    Looks like the FTC has mounted a big crackdown and gone after 15 biz-opp infomercials for alleged scams. They include some pretty famous infomercials....

    like Jeff Paul's "Shortcuts to Internet Millions" infomercial, John Beck's "Free & Clear Real Estate System", John Alexander's "Real Estate Riches in 14 Days" and , plus other biz ops and real estate deals.

    here's the FTC link: Federal Trade Commission v. John Beck Amazing Profits, LLC, a California limited liability company, et al

    _____
    Bruce
    It's about time.

    Jeff Paul has been scamming people... sitting at his kitchen table making $4000 a day sitting in his underwear... for years.

    Best,

    Bill Jeffels
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  • Profile picture of the author Randy Bheites
    About time the FTC did something about these scumbags, especially the nasty hidden rebill scammers like Google Tree and the grants. I see Angela Penbrook is finally getting shut down as well.

    Smilin' Bob, on the other hand, why, that's just patriotic, helping all those poor guys salute again!
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Riddle
    Its really bad, there is no need to rip people off.

    The Sad part to me is that I met John Beck back in the days when few people knew who he was, and at that time was really doing deals.

    I attended auctions with him and visited a collectors office where we proceeded to have deal after deal thrown in our lap.

    He and about 3 other guys drove around the Dallas TX area in my old cadi taking pictures and talking with people.

    He purchased several properties during the tour, and made arrangements to get about 25 lake front lots if he agreed to "Urge" the buyers to place homes on them.

    Mark Riddle
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  • Profile picture of the author Bruce NewMedia
    I think many of these guys started out as fairly straight businessmen, but their greed got out of control.

    I had a business transaction with Jeff Paul, when he was a financial planner and lived just few miles from me, in 1990.
    This was long before he was 'famous'. He always impressed me as a decent fellow. I think his early courses on marketing were decent and sold in a reputable way.

    However, these recent infomercials make other marketers look shady as well. ...too bad.

    Here's Tommy Vu, who I think was able to avoid jail.

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    • Profile picture of the author WareTime
      "Looks like the FTC has mounted a big crackdown and gone after 15 biz-opp infomercials for alleged scams. They include some pretty famous infomercials....'

      To quote the great Nelson, "Ha Ha"
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    • Profile picture of the author Bill Jeffels
      Originally Posted by brucerby View Post

      I think many of these guys started out as fairly straight businessmen, but their greed got out of control.

      I had a business transaction with Jeff Paul, when he was a financial planner and lived just few miles from me, in 1990.
      This was long before he was 'famous'. He always impressed me as a decent fellow. I think his early courses on marketing were decent and sold in a reputable way.

      However, these recent infomercials make other marketers look shady as well. ...too bad.

      Here's Tommy Vu, who I think was able to avoid jail.

      YouTube - Tom Vu, the Legendary Asian Pimp
      It's amazing, guy's like Jeff Paul, Vincent James ( Passafiume ), Tom Vu and Don Lapre, they're intelligent guy's. They really are.

      They chose to run their business's a certain way. And as John Carlton has said in his Scuttle Butt cd's... "you can market your business so that you will make money long term... or you can scam people, you will make money short term and probably go to jail.

      Vincent James went to jail, all of his assets got seized, he lost 48 million dollars, lost 4 mansions, Ferrari's, hell even his fiances engagement ring.

      But guy's like Joe Polish, Russel Brunson and many others think he's the greatest thing since sliced bread. Even Gary Halbert explained when he met Vinny James that it was like direct marketing meeting the Sopranos.

      Life is all about choices, some people want to be like Donald Trump and Warren Buffett, and some people want to be like Conrad Black and Bernie Madoff.

      Regards,

      Bill Jeffels
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  • Profile picture of the author Scott Ames
    The major offense in the complaint seems to be a continuity plan without disclosure.


    At no point before consumers provide their payment information as
    14 part of the automated ordering process do Defendants disclose that John's Club is 15 actually a continuity plan, and that once the 30-day free membership expires, 16 consumers will be charged $39.95 per month unless they contact Defendants to
    17 cancel their memberships. At no point prior to providing their payment
    18 information do consumers give their consent to be charged for their memberships 19 in John's Club once the 30-day free memberships expire.

    They probably could keep going if they didn't get greedy and hide the continuity. I'm sure they would still make plenty of money too.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by Scott Ames View Post

      The major offense in the complaint seems to be a continuity plan without disclosure.





      They probably could keep going if they didn't get greedy and hide the continuity. I'm sure they would still make plenty of money too.
      They ARE exagerating the potential gain and simplicity. For the free & clear, for example, the auctions may have a lot of restrictions, require you to be present, and some big bidders may be there. They point IS to drive the price UP after all.

      "Continuity" is just the latest gimic. The FTC will NOT try you for violations they prove that caused the investigation! They will try to build a case for every violation that they find when they try to. In other words, a customer could complain about the "continuity", and the FTC may find you INNOCENT, but find that claims are exagerated, etc.... and charge you with THAT!

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Sfrew
    While the FTC is going after big fish right now, they may or not be guilty of anything -- the FTC approach is smash and grab, and then go to court. Usually folks settle with them -- just like the IRS. That may be ok when you are dealing with folks with the resources to pay a "settlement" aka extortion, but plenty of small fry get hit along the way, and it can destroy someone whether they are guilty of anything or not.

    The FTC should be protecting the public -- I am good with that. I am just concerned that they fail to distinguish innocent technical issues and malicious competitor complaints from intentional scams on the public.

    As a retired attorney, I think the day is long past when folks on this forum can run their internet business without a good compliance attorney. The free-wheeling days of everyone starting business on the net to work at home in their undies is ending rapidly.

    Your sites, offers, and products are a business and they need to be run like a business -- and the US government is your business partner regardless of whether you received bailout money, you just don't know it. Innocent or ignorant mistakes will still get you killed.

    And NO...I will not recommend a good lawyer.
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    • Profile picture of the author Bill Jeffels
      Originally Posted by Sfrew View Post

      While the FTC is going after big fish right now, they may or not be guilty of anything -- the FTC approach is smash and grab, and then go to court. Usually folks settle with them -- just like the IRS. That may be ok when you are dealing with folks with the resources to pay a "settlement" aka extortion, but plenty of small fry get hit along the way, and it can destroy someone whether they are guilty of anything or not.

      The FTC should be protecting the public -- I am good with that. I am just concerned that they fail to distinguish innocent technical issues and malicious competitor complaints from intentional scams on the public.

      As a retired attorney, I think the day is long past when folks on this forum can run their internet business without a good compliance attorney. The free-wheeling days of everyone starting business on the net to work at home in their undies is ending rapidly.

      Your sites, offers, and products are a business and they need to be run like a business -- and the US government is your business partner regardless of whether you received bailout money, you just don't know it. Innocent or ignorant mistakes will still get you killed.

      And NO...I will not recommend a good lawyer.
      Oh ya, your exactly right.

      There has been plenty of legitatment business people... direct mail, internet people that are innocent, but have had their bank accounts frozen and their assets seized just because they are making large amounts of money a month.

      As soon as the government observes someone is making a substancial amount of money they immediately put on their "RICO" radar and presume you're either working with Pablo Escobar or John Gotti, ( ya, I know they're dead ).

      Then it's up to the innocent business person to pay their lawyer hundreds of thousands, possibly millions of dollars to prove their innocence.

      Let's say your in direct mail,you can even phone your bank and tell them that your rolling out a huge mailing and to expect large amounts of money coming into your bank account.

      It doesn't matter, phone calls will still be made and innocent people will still get nailed.

      Best,

      Bill Jeffels
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  • Profile picture of the author marmo
    Glad there going after the scammers , putting poor people on auto re bill without disclosure is kinda immorally bankrupt IMO.
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  • Profile picture of the author Josh Anderson
    From the news release:

    http://ftc.gov/opa/2009/07/shortchange.shtm

    The defendants allegedly made false and unsubstantiated claims about potential earnings for users of these systems.
    In addition to the hidden forced continuity unsubstantiated earnings claims is one of the main charges.

    I watched a Jeff Paul commercial where a IM Goober we all know who speaks at a lot of big IM events.

    This Goober was used as a testimonial on the Jeff Paul infomercial. He was saying how he made $500,000 over a weekend using Jeff's strategies.

    The problem was that he did not mention that he was already a top IM Goober, that he had hundreds of thousands of clients already, that he had also been a top promoter in many online business opportunities and MLM for years and years...

    The kicker? This Goober did not even use his full name on the infomercial. Instead they showed his name as First Name Last initial.

    There was no mention that the results were not typical and that they were in no way related to taking Jeff's course nor anything that Jeff had done with this guy.

    I was shocked to see him participating in such deceptive marketing as a testimonial since he was not really one of Jeff's students from his course and obviously was just doing it as a buddy favor and would not even use his full name. They were pretending he was just average Joe Blow and not an experienced IM goober.

    To top it off this particular IM Goober is a lawyer.


    And yes though the forum changes the word... goober is pretty accurate description ;-)
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    • Profile picture of the author Ram
      Jeff Paul's "shortcut" commercials are pretty bad.

      But ...

      One of the every first marketing courses I ever bought was Jeff's old mail order course. And I still say it's one of the best I ever read and studied. I learned a lot from that course.

      A big problem, IMHO, is the outsourced coaching programs. Some of the telemarketing firms are ruthless and will extract anything they can. And the coaching is worthless as well - usually minimally trained home-based operators who have no real experience.

      There are a few decent telemarketing firms out there. But there are a lot of boiler rooms too.
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by Josh Anderson View Post

      ...
      And yes though the forum changes the word... goober is pretty accurate description ;-)
      I was beginning to think I was the only one that viewed it that way. Goober has the connotation of not being very bright. In the Andy Taylor universe, Goober was nice, but not very bright.
      Urban Dictionary: goober

      Goober Pyle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
      Goober was Mayberry's "village idiot". This was perhaps best seen in an episode when Goober believed his dog was talking human, which then filled his head with delusions of becoming rich and famous. In reality the "talking dog" was a practical joke played by Opie and his friend, who had hidden a walkie-talkie under the dog's collar and pretended to be the dog's voice. He was a childlike and somewhat dimwitted character, similar to his cousin Gomer, although not as extreme. Both Goober and Gomer were the show's comic relief.
      Oh well....You are right in your implication....G-U-R-U is SO overused that goober IS a better term. It is more meaningful! ROTFLMAOFE
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  • Profile picture of the author Rezbi
    I'm not surprised considering all the complaints I've seen about these guys.
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  • Profile picture of the author ahlexis
    An interesting reason to use prepaid Visa and Mastercard gift cards . . . unexpected forced continuity!

    And just think, there are congressmen/women who would like to do away with them! (Your tax dollars at work.)
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    • Profile picture of the author seasoned
      Originally Posted by ahlexis View Post

      An interesting reason to use prepaid Visa and Mastercard gift cards . . . unexpected forced continuity!

      And just think, there are congressmen/women who would like to do away with them! (Your tax dollars at work.)
      Unexpected forced continuity IS illegal! It was even when I was a little kid! They just don't enforce it. Basically, costs are supposed to be revealed BEFORE the sale! Heck, some BIG software companies tried about a decade ago to have enclosed licenses. Even though most of the license did not encumber use and was customary, it was STILL found to be illegal! They basically had the customer entering into a contract without revealing details, and that made it VOID!

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author JennJessop
    This is really interesting. FTC has been cracking down on a lot of stuff. I remember just the other day reading about a women who was going to be charged some insane fine for illegally downloading music. It was like 80 thousand per song or something.

    But I'm glad they are cracking down on scams, they really just give the rest of us who run legitimate businesses a bad name.
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    • Profile picture of the author adamv
      Originally Posted by mikeyman120 View Post

      If Jeff Paul is in trouble he can hire the best lawyers money can buy!
      That's true but will his lawyers be as good as O.J. Simpsons or only as good as Bernie Madoff's?
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  • Profile picture of the author mywebwork
    Wow - if they take Jeff's "Shortcut to Internet Millions" commercial off the air what will happen to 30% of our late night television? It's amazing how many times that comes on every night - it sometimes airs on 5 channels simultaniously!

    I for one applaud the crackdown, scam artists like this give legitimate marketers a bad name. With the current economic crisis more people are turning to the Internet to make money and if their chosen introduction is Jeff's "Shortcut to Internet Millions" crap they are in for a rude (and expensive) surprise.

    I won't miss Jeff's commercials. I will, however, miss his two co-hosts... perhaps they can get a job with Smiling Bob on the Enzyte commercials!

    Bill
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
      Originally Posted by mywebwork View Post

      Wow - if they take Jeff's "Shortcut to Internet Millions" commercial off the air what will happen to 30% of our late night television? It's amazing how many times that comes on every night - it sometimes airs on 5 channels simultaniously!
      I don't know if I've ever seen it even once.
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      • Profile picture of the author adamv
        Originally Posted by Steven Carl Kelly View Post

        I don't know if I've ever seen it even once.
        I would reccomend watching it once. It's so unbelievable that it's funny.

        Well, funny until you realize that a lot of people that don't know any better buy into his crap and get stuck in a forced continuity program or conned into some expensive coaching that's not worth a crap.

        But if you can put that aside the infomercial is pretty funny.
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
          Originally Posted by adamv View Post

          I would reccomend watching it once. It's so unbelievable that it's funny.
          How does it stack up against Don Lapre?
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          • Profile picture of the author adamv
            Originally Posted by Steven Carl Kelly View Post

            How does it stack up against Don Lapre?
            I'd say it's better. It's certainly more up to date. I honestly can not comment on some of the more recent Lapre stuff ie. hawking vitamins because I saw about 2 minutes of that one 4 or 5 years ago but the old Don Lapre classic of "tiny classified ads can make you rich" was pretty good and for pure entertainment value the Jeff Paul infomercial beats the old Don Lapre stuff hands down.

            A lot of people seem to like the Jeff Paul infomercial because of the hostesses but the "ladys" with their huge fake breasts don't really do much for me (I prefer a more natural look). I'm entertained by the terrible acting by the people that are supposedly making 6 figures every week from a bunch of pre-made template web sites selling who knows what.

            There's one guy that says something like "I get 10 new websites every month and my income goes up every month, I'm making up to $100,000 every week" (or something like that). It's comical if you don't think about the poor souls pinning their hopes and dreams to a bunch of crappy websites that are exactly the same as the ones that are sold to a few thousand other people.

            I don't see how anyone can possibly make money with this program but to be fair, I have not invested my $39.95 so maybe it really is a good business opportunity. (Note: heavy sarcasm.)
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  • Profile picture of the author reverendro
    I checked out Jeff's website. He's got nothing on there that says that it gets billed monthly when you order. The only thing he has on there is *you will be billed $39.95 after the first month. You may cancel at any time." I'm no attorney but I don't think that's going to cut it as a disclosure.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
    Ok, now I found it on YouTube. Yeah, I've seen it. I clearly remember the AMPLE CLEAVAGE but I never remembered the product.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
    Give me Tom Vu's commercials any day:

    "Don't listen to your friends. They're losers!"
    "Do you think these girls like me? NO, they like my money!"

    Classic.
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    • Profile picture of the author adamv
      Originally Posted by Steven Carl Kelly View Post

      Give me Tom Vu's commercials any day:

      "Don't listen to your friends. They're losers!"
      "Do you think these girls like me? NO, they like my money!"

      Classic.
      That is classic. I was just a kid when Tommy Vu's infomercials were on but I still remember them all these years later. "I make u mil on air"

      I forgot about the lines you quote though, those ARE classic. LOL
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  • Profile picture of the author Josh Anderson
    Since we are on the topic of forced continuity...

    I am consulting on and helping set up the ecommerce automation and upsell funnel for a major new health supplement company that will be doing high volume.

    They are in the diet industry and the initial offer is a trial offer so its forced continuity.

    The platform that my company developed lets the business owner choose whether or not to display a cancel link inside the customer's billing management account. Much like paypal we designed this to give the customer control.

    However, we also know that some companies want to make it more difficult for you to cancel... not impossible just a little inconvenient like requiring you to call into their customer service line to request to cancel.

    Business owners know that people just put it off because they don't want to go through the hassle of a simple call to customer service even though its clear to the consumer they are being charged and all it takes to cancel is a call.

    For this reason we let the business decide if they want to display the cancel link. Our system makes it easy for the client to update billing info and it makes it easy for them to cancel with a one click cancel option should the publisher decide to make that visible in the billing info update are for the customer.

    We have to make this optional because we know that companies want control over when, where, and how a customer cancels a subscription.

    I suggested to the owner of the company that he try a strategy that I believe could increase conversions...

    But it also may increase cancellations.

    That strategy is to create a small screen capture video explaining that its easy to cancel and that they can cancel at any time without having to call customer service by simply logging in and clicking the cancel link.

    That video can then be put on the order page to increase customer confidence and put them in control and to be more aware of the continuity part of the offer.

    This video could also be used on a customer service faq page and eliminate most billing customer service calls (except for refunds) automating the billing and billing management process. Additionally the client could update their cc info in the same place if they needed to and our system reminds them several times to update a CC if it fails on rebill.

    Our system integrates with the fulfillment house and the fulfillment house also handles returns and will manually cancel subscriptions and process a refund on a return by logging into the CMS in our system.

    He is hesitant to try my strategy because he wants to go with the more traditional call to cancel route so he will likely be hiding the cancel link and instead offering a call in number for customer service... there is always a chance though that he might try it or split test it.

    I would really like people to try out this strategy more in many industries. Give the control to the client, boost confidence, and reduce overhead because of eliminating the majority of billing customer service automating as much of the entire operation as well.

    This is no little operation either. The last company he built did 24m a month and the goal is 8m monthly 1000 orders daily with this one all of which will be run through our platform.

    Many of our online digital content publishers use this great feature to automate and eliminate any billing and cancellation customer service but no one yet has tested the "don't worry you don't have to call customer service to cancel or manage your billing info. We make it easy for you." video as a conversion rate boosting tool.

    I think its worth a test since in this environment given the economy, prevelance of scams, and reality that most everyone hesitates on subscriptions due to this very reason.

    Why not change the norm and have a more open and customer confidence oriented way of managing billing and cancellations.

    We developed it for this very reason.
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    • Profile picture of the author raiko
      I can't believe no one has mentioned the Rice Brothers. They were classics. Both about 3 feet tall and identical twins. Their infomercial made me realize that the general public would basically believe just about anything that was told to them as long as you showed a yacht, a Ferrari, and a mansion in the background at the time you were making your "pitch" - even if the Ferrari was driven by a 3 foot tall guy in a suit and tie.
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
        Originally Posted by raiko View Post

        I can't believe no one has mentioned the Rice Brothers.
        I ran into the Rice brothers as they were tooling around on their Segways.
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        • Profile picture of the author adamv
          Can they see over the handlebars of the Segways? Maybe they have to stand on a couple of phone books.
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          • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
            Originally Posted by adamv View Post

            Can they see over the handlebars of the Segways? Maybe they have to stand on a couple of phone books.
            Yeah, the could see over the handlebars. BTW, just an FYI: John Rice died a couple of years back.
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            • Profile picture of the author adamv
              Originally Posted by Steven Carl Kelly View Post

              Yeah, the could see over the handlebars. BTW, just an FYI: John Rice died a couple of years back.
              Really??? I had not heard about that. That's too bad.

              I guess that's why it's been a while since I've seen those infomercials.
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              • Profile picture of the author Ram
                John and Greg Rice filmed that infomercial in 1998. It wasn't their product, they were just the personalities. It was for Ron LeGrand's "Cash Flow Generator." It still runs today in selected markets.
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        • Profile picture of the author Bill Jeffels
          Also, many complaints regarding Jeff Paul's Mentoring Of America and Membership Millions.

          One woman explained how she was convinced to purchase a more exspensive package that was several thousand dollars, and she was told she would be walked through the program step by step by Jeff Paul.

          And when she received her first "phone call" from Jeff Paul it was a recorded message. She Immediately smelled a rat and asked for her money back.

          And Jeff's company refused her a refund.

          Best

          Bill Jeffels
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          • Profile picture of the author Ram
            Actually, Jeff doesn't own the company his name is on. Nor does John Beck. Nor does John Alexander.

            Gary Hewitt and Doug Gravink own them. They own Family Products LLC which owns Mentoring of America LLC and all the LLCs tied to Jeff, and the two Johns.

            Jeff Paul, John Alexander and John Beck have a deal with Family Products to do all the marketing where they license their name and products and appear in the infomercials, etc. They get paid, but they don't actually own any of those companies. They are front companies for Family Products.

            Hewitt and Gravink have been in this game for years.

            BTW - this type of deal is common. Guess who owns Dean Graziosi's marketing arm? And who used to own Russ Dalbey's before he got too big?

            Any guesses?

            Don Lapre.
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            • Profile picture of the author Floyd Fisher
              Originally Posted by Ram View Post

              Actually, Jeff doesn't own the company his name is on. Nor does John Beck. Nor does John Alexander.

              Gary Hewitt and Doug Gravink own them. They own Family Products LLC which owns Mentoring of America LLC and all the LLCs tied to Jeff, and the two Johns.

              Jeff Paul, John Alexander and John Beck have a deal with Family Products to do all the marketing where they license their name and products and appear in the infomercials, etc. They get paid, but they don't actually own any of those companies. They are front companies for Family Products.

              Hewitt and Gravink have been in this game for years.

              BTW - this type of deal is common. Guess who owns Dean Graziosi's marketing arm? And who used to own Russ Dalbey's before he got too big?

              Any guesses?

              Don Lapre.
              It doesn't matter where the Government is concerned.

              If you're pimping a scam, you're just as bad as the scammers themselves. It does not matter if you knew it was a scam or not, because you should have known better.

              Basically, it comes down to 'ignorance of the law is no excuse'.
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              • Profile picture of the author Floyd Fisher
                Originally Posted by NathanFalkner View Post

                Floyd (or anyone), just wondering... does this extend to the
                television stations that accepted the "Jeff Paul" type of ads? Do
                they get to keep all that money they were paid to air these
                apparently fraudulent advertisements?

                I don't really follow this type of thing too closely, but maybe
                you'd know. Have any TV station owners been jailed or fined in
                the past?
                Unfortunately, the TV stations get to keep the ad revenue.

                Would be a good idea to lump them in too with fines for advertising stuff like this. Maybe they wouldn't be so quick to fill their dead time with scams.

                But then again, it would just drive their costs through the roof because they would have to screen each and every ad prior to broadcasting, which could be a nightmare for them.
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                • Profile picture of the author dhiggins
                  I am really suprised that the well known Goober, who used to be or maybe still is an attorney, would have even put himself in the position of being accociated with Jeff Paul on national T.V., especially when such blatent lies (excuse me), exagerations of the truth, are being told.

                  One of the products that he markets is supposed to keep you from getting in trouble with the FTC. He came out with that product right after Frank Kern got whipped by them.

                  I guess Jeff Paul didn't bother to purchased it from him....
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            • Profile picture of the author Bill Jeffels
              Originally Posted by Ram View Post

              Actually, Jeff doesn't own the company his name is on. Nor does John Beck. Nor does John Alexander.

              Gary Hewitt and Doug Gravink own them. They own Family Products LLC which owns Mentoring of America LLC and all the LLCs tied to Jeff, and the two Johns.

              Jeff Paul, John Alexander and John Beck have a deal with Family Products to do all the marketing where they license their name and products and appear in the infomercials, etc. They get paid, but they don't actually own any of those companies. They are front companies for Family Products.

              Hewitt and Gravink have been in this game for years.

              BTW - this type of deal is common. Guess who owns Dean Graziosi's marketing arm? And who used to own Russ Dalbey's before he got too big?

              Any guesses?

              Don Lapre.
              Ha, that's so funny about the Don Lapre, Dean Graziosi's connection.

              I always thought they were similiar. If you just took out Dean's Motoring Millions and inserted Don's "tiny classified ad's" and took out don's nazzley voice.

              It's interesting I got a e-mail from Yanik silver advising of... Yanik, Joe Polish, Dean Graziosi's and Richard Branson all hanging out on Branson's Necker Island.

              It's surprising that Yanik would be hanging with the types of Dean Graziosi, bacause Yanik alway's wants to have the image of a trustworthy guy.

              Regards

              Bill Jeffels

              P.S., if you want, google... Allman Glenn Braswell, that will keep you reading about fraud for a while.
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  • Profile picture of the author Don Schenk
    I just read through the FTC's complaint, all 38 pages of it. (I've never claimed to be sane.) It is fascinating. The scripts for all three defendants' infomercials are in there.

    I was wondering why the FTC went after these three marketers all together in one complaint rather than individually. It seems the common thread is a company called Mentoring of America, LLC. This is the company selling the coaching and requiring the hidden, forced continuity.

    The main complaints center around...
    1- unsubstantiated claims in the infomercials,
    2- forced continuity while not telling consumers about it before the consumers
    give their credit card details.
    3- the outrageously expensive coaching $195 to almost $15,000 - while telling consumers they can easily earn back the cost of coaching in a few months.

    There would be a "Help Desk" toll-free phone number in with each defendant's initial sales package that would actually lead the confused consumer to a coaching telemarketer when someone would call for help.

    The FTC complaint filed with the courts says, "Hundreds of thousands of consumers throughout the United States have purchased the John Beck system, paying approximately $92,000,000, including continuity plan charges."

    And it also says, "Since January 2004, consumers have paid approximately $175,000,000 for personal coaching services for the John Beck system."

    Wow!

    I know a particular IMer who offers a coaching system after getting would-be newcomers into a continuation. He has "qualifier" sales people call to see if the person paying into the continuity would have money to put into coaching. He then has "closers" call the customer and try to sell a coaching system that ranges from about $3,000 to as much as $9,000.

    It looks like a similar type of system.

    :-Don
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    • Profile picture of the author WayneBuckhanan
      Originally Posted by Don Schenk View Post

      I know a particular IMer who offers a coaching system after getting would-be newcomers into a continuation. He has "qualifier" sales people call to see if the person paying into the continuity would have money to put into coaching. He then has "closers" call the customer and try to sell a coaching system that ranges from about $3,000 to as much as $9,000.
      Sounds like what I got put through by one of the loud, energetic Goobers.

      I went through their 12 step hard-sell process and was charged $3500 for the promise of bootstrapping a "done for me" business. Instead I got a web page design and lots of glad handing "yes, looks good, keep going" reassurances from the "coaches." I went through several "coaches" because the first guy disappeared while I waited patiently for replies to my emails...

      I was told I was going to learn how they did market research, wrote copy, etc. by "looking over the shoulder of their experts" and that is what I bought. Instead I got a couple draft quality ebooks on writing articles -- but only after months of non-coaching and making my way up the chain to the manager (who was the Goober's brother!) and asking for a refund (which I never got). The irony is that I would have gotten a better design, better information, and better support with $100 and a few hours here on WF.

      I guess I should be glad it wasn't forced continuity also!

      In spite of all that I don't know that I would prefer the FTC involved. I suppose not everyone can write it off as a learning experience and so some amount of gov't involvement may be more helpful than harmful in this case. *I* knew better and chose to ignore my gut and attempted to pay for the "short cut" and instead lost time, money, and energy.

      I still subscribe to the classics:
      Caveat emptor.
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    • Profile picture of the author Vector
      That's really FUNNY!

      "So, for the next 25 years Steve will be in prison getting a different kind of "Natural Male Enhancement".
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      • Profile picture of the author Nightengale
        I'm all for treating consumers right, but I'm always suspicious of the FTC.

        I have two of Joe Sugarman's books and in one of them (don't remember the title), he talked about the time when he was investigated by the FTC. He's an upright businessman and was cleared of all charges, but not before it nearly killed his business and destroyed his reputation.

        I dislike and distrust infomercial snakeoil salesmen as much as the next girl, but I don't have a lot of faith in the FTC when it comes to this either. As someone else mentioned, they tend to follow a seize-and-destroy-and-THEN-investigate-charge-and-try modus operandi. And the "destroy" part of it applies to both your business AND reputation.

        After working in customer service, I don't have a lot of faith in the intelligence of the general public or their ability to read and understand basic sales letters and term and conditions. Sounds horrible, I know, but try working in a call center for a few years. :\. I never had this perception of the general public until I worked in customer service and I hate how I little I think of them these days. But that's what customer service has done for me. As someone said (was it P.T. Barnum?), "No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the general public." (Or something like that.)

        Michelle
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        • Profile picture of the author Loren Woirhaye
          Originally Posted by Nightengale View Post

          I'm all for treating consumers right, but I'm always suspicious of the FTC.

          I have two of Joe Sugarman's books and in one of them (don't remember the title), he talked about the time when he was investigated by the FTC. He's an upright businessman and was cleared of all charges, but not before it nearly killed his business and destroyed his reputation.

          I dislike and distrust infomercial snakeoil salesmen as much as the next girl, but I don't have a lot of faith in the FTC when it comes to this either. As someone else mentioned, they tend to follow a seize-and-destroy-and-THEN-investigate-charge-and-try modus operandi. And the "destroy" part of it applies to both your business AND reputation.

          After working in customer service, I don't have a lot of faith in the intelligence of the general public or their ability to read and understand basic sales letters and term and conditions. Sounds horrible, I know, but try working in a call center for a few years. :. I never had this perception of the general public until I worked in customer service and I hate how I little I think of them these days. But that's what customer service has done for me. As someone said (was it P.T. Barnum?), "No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the general public." (Or something like that.)

          Michelle
          Ben Suarez was also railroaded by the FTC. When a direct mail company
          gets to be a certain size it seems it becomes a target for ambitious mid-level
          bureaucrats looking to put some notches on their guns.

          The direct marketing and mail industry lobbies heavily to protect freedoms
          we enjoy as small-time marketers.

          It's interesting how closely Suarez's story mirrors Sugarman's.

          That being said, it sure sounds like this latest Jeff Paul operation is
          pretty sleazy.
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    • Profile picture of the author jercarbra
      Originally Posted by JerryIL View Post

      Never met or heard of anyone who made any money from the infomercials..
      Well, let's see... the infomercial producer made money by filming and producing the show... the cable stations made money by selling air time... the actors made money by giving fake testimonials... companies made money by publishing the booklets, and/or copying cd's, dvd's, etc... telemarketers made money by upselling you... and oh, I almost forgot... the promoter himself or herself also made a little money... to the tune of millions! So quite a few people DID make money from these infomericlas... unfortunately... NONE of us did!

      Jerry
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    • Profile picture of the author actionplanbiz
      DId Carlton sheets have the Same Problem? What was the Out come of that?

      ...Still Rich Right?
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  • Profile picture of the author bobsedge
    I don't know about the practices of these people because I have not had any personal dealings with them, but when it comes to the FTC, guilt or innocence really doesn't matter. When they are out to make a point about a particular industry (in this case the biz op industry), they find the biggest fish and fry them. They are in it for the headlines and are pretty lazy, so infomercials make people a perfect target because there is a ton of exposure. The infomercial almost writes the complaint for them.

    As for beating the FTC, it doesn't happen. To my knowledge the last company to defeat the FTC in court is Amway in 1979. You need a minimum of $1 million in legal fees to start.

    Now what these guys need to hope is that the postal inspector doesn't want in on the case. The FTC are pussy cats compared to the postal service. They rip you a new one in federal criminal court and they are hard to beat.

    There is a lesson here that we should all take notice of. When it comes to FTC enforcement, it is all about substantiating claims. They will kill you if you can't back up your claims and your testimonials better be real. We should all run our business as though someone is watching because you never know, someone may be.
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  • Profile picture of the author bobsedge
    The FTC doesn't really care about corporate structure. They will pierce any corporate veil.

    I honestly do not believe that there is a tipping point in these type of cases. They target an industry and then decide who will be made an example of. They want someone that can make headlines and has deep enough pockets so they, their lawyers, and forensic accountants can take fees. The irony is that there is rarely much money left to go back to the customers.

    I predict that they will hit the IM industry and take down someone large within two years. They went after Jeff Paul as part of the biz-op industry, but the investigation of him could likely open their eyes to the IM industry.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lyn Woodring
    I have learned the hard way to deal with undiscloused forced contunity. I use a debit card that I use just for untried or dubious offers. That way if its some type of fraud I just cancel that card and have a new one issued.
    This card has very little money in it and I transfer money to it as needed. Since its not used for regular transactions canceling the card creates nor problems. Since the money in it is minimal any loss is also limited.
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  • Profile picture of the author 60MinuteAffiliate
    This is all very interesting. I ended up buying a dog food ebook the other day and after i had made my purchase was told that I was now a member of their dog club which meant that instead of being charged so many dollars a month i got it a few dollars cheaper.

    colleen
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  • Profile picture of the author Jon Steel
    Wow - that sucks. Thank for the links. I have to keep up with the world around me...

    js
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  • Profile picture of the author jcaviani
    My only question is - what took so long? There are many in this realm that have been pushing the legal line and crossing it for many years without consequence. Too many people have offered feeble, brazen justifications for their fraudulent money making schemes for far too long. Much of what has been heralded as great marketing in portions of this forum is simply fraud.

    I hope this crackdown is only the beginning. I also hope the offenders get more than a slap on the wrist and their bank accounts are drained to fumes. Unfortunately, something tells me these guys will find God, offer fake apologies (maybe even shed a few tears for effect) and be back working some other angle under the guise of helping people in the near future.
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  • Profile picture of the author bobsedge
    Unfortunately, you are never cleared of all charged by the FTC. The settlements all read the same. There is no admission or assumption of guilt, but the terms of the settlement usually destroy lives and businesses.

    That being said, I am sure that is some cases the FTC is justified in their actions. The problem is that they are lazy and sloppy and act on industries instead of businesses. They will trump up charges that are full of lies and half-truths and they really go for blood.

    They always settle, but the settlements vary depending on the size of the businesses. When they go after very large businesses, the settlement just involves money and they never go after the owners. When they go after the relatively small businesses (the Joe Sugarman's) the business and the person are left in shambles.

    What is needed is a true non-political consumer protection agency that has no agenda and looks to get rid of the bad guys instead of an agency that cleans up industries because they are inconvenient or problematic to another established industry.
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    • Profile picture of the author Don Schenk
      Originally Posted by bobsedge View Post

      They always settle, but the settlements vary depending on the size of the businesses. When they go after very large businesses, the settlement just involves money and they never go after the owners. When they go after the relatively small businesses (the Joe Sugarman's) the business and the person are left in shambles.

      The FTC went after Frank Kern a few years ago. It cost him a few hundred thousand dollars and a bunch of sleepless nights, but he came out of it wiser and more successful.


      Originally Posted by WayneBuckhanan View Post

      Sounds like what I got put through by one of the loud, energetic Goobers.

      I went through their 12 step hard-sell process and was charged $3500 for the promise of bootstrapping a "done for me" business. Instead I got a web page design and lots of glad handing "yes, looks good, keep going" reassurances from the "coaches." I went through several "coaches" because the first guy disappeared while I waited patiently for replies to my emails...

      Caveat emptor.

      Yep Wayne, it sound sooooo familiar, but I was lucky I didn't give them any money.


      :-Don
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  • Profile picture of the author ADAMw3
    Just a quick question.

    How does this FTC case with Jeff Paul and the rest differ than say some IM gurus?

    What are they doing to not be attacked by the FTC? Earnings Disclaimer?
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  • Profile picture of the author bobsedge
    The IM industry has simply just not hit the radar yet. But it will and then a high profile IM'er or two or three will be taken down. And they don't have a chance because they break every rule in the FTC book.
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  • Profile picture of the author BrianMcLeod
    Some of these spots were so over the top they were virtually BEGGING for an action like this... Incredibly poor decision making from people who should know better.

    But it will inevitably happen again... once a certain critical mass takes hold with a DRTV spot, deeply discounted and per inquiry avails have a way of making danger seem smart. We're seeing the same money-intoxicant at work in the CPA world...

    Funny how that parallels, isn't it? Oversold/deceptive offer, per action customer acquisition model, scale happens.

    My takeaway from reading the complaint: It's not a very good time to be a phone room in the back-end coaching business. Not when you behave like some of those reckless idiots in some of those operations behave.

    THAT is what sunk these guys, not their woeful boobs and biz opp spots. A spot like that doesn't generate the complaints and the heat. It's the assclown hammering the FTC investigator with a hard close for $10k on tape... yep, that'll do it.

    There's no plausible excuse for what some of these guys do, I've heard the tapes (no, not THESE tapes).

    Brian
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  • Profile picture of the author dhiggins
    It would be my opinion that if you are going to have a business model of a continuity program, paid monthly membership, that it would be wise to send out an invoice two weeks ahead of time to the member to remind them that they will be remitting a payment in two weeks.

    Then send another one a week before, then one on the day the payment is due. That way there is no way that there is any mis-understanding between the parties involved.

    I think however, that the best way is, if the customer wants to remain a member and continue to receive the benifits or products, you should send out the reminder invoices and then he or she should have to remit payment manually and not have an auto payment setup.

    Just my opinion
    Dan
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  • Profile picture of the author Carl Pruitt
    More government - of any sort - is always a bad answer to any problem.

    More people get taken advantage of because they naively assume that the government can protect them from con artists than could possibly be ripped off if most of these alphabetically titled government bureaucracies never existed and people knew from the get go that big brother would never be there to protect them.

    One possible good use of these alphabet agencies might now be to take the customer lists from the businesses listed in this FTC action and hand it over to the FEC and local voter registration boards so we can have those people removed from the voter rolls.
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  • Profile picture of the author goalpower
    I used to sell coaching programs out of an office in Kansas City for many of these info gurus.

    Got sick of it after about 2 months - didn't like how they were ripping people off. They sell shitty coaching programs that really don't teach people much, and some get hit for 2k - others for 15k - and there's not much difference in the coaching for the price variation.

    It's a bad deal. Our parent office in Utah was selling over 100k in coaching every week.

    What comes around - goes around.
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    Steve Meade - Master Motivational Hypnotist and IM Pro

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  • Profile picture of the author Shaka
    From the sounds of what these people were doing I am glad the FTC stepped in. And in the case of Jeff Paul, I wonder what took them so long.
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  • Profile picture of the author jgand
    Yeah, these on tv infomercials are subject to investigation on a regular basis it just takes a few complaints to get the ball rolling for an investigation, they will probably be in litigation for years and have to pay a fine.
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  • Profile picture of the author bobwalk
    These Infomercials are great examples of what not to do. Sooner or later the FTC start
    looking deep into your business practices.
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  • Profile picture of the author Avidpoet
    Seen an infomercial where two big breasted(one blonde one dark haired)women were sitting on a couch lol the blond was like. "Like oh my gawad I just made a sale" I dam near pissed my pants laughing lmaoooooooo.

    I forget which infomercial it was for but they dont play it anymore but it was hilarious.
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    • Profile picture of the author mywebwork
      Originally Posted by Avidpoet View Post

      Seen an infomercial where two big breasted(one blonde one dark haired)women were sitting on a couch lol the blond was like. "Like oh my gawad I just made a sale" I dam near pissed my pants laughing lmaoooooooo.

      I forget which infomercial it was for but they dont play it anymore but it was hilarious.
      Actually that was Jeff's first commercial for the same product - his "Shortcut to Internet Millions". Obviously Jeff has a cleavage fixation!

      Confession - I'm a workaholic who takes a break around midnight to watch Star Trek Voyager, so the only TV I'm familiar with is primarily infomercials as that's all that's on after 1 AM!

      Question - If the FTC clamped down on Jeff's commercials then why do they still run? They are still on 5 times every evening in our market.

      Bill
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    • Profile picture of the author anthony2
      Originally Posted by Avidpoet View Post

      Seen an infomercial where two big breasted(one blonde one dark haired)women were sitting on a couch lol the blond was like. "Like oh my gawad I just made a sale" I dam near pissed my pants laughing lmaoooooooo.

      I forget which infomercial it was for but they dont play it anymore but it was hilarious.
      Yea i remember that commercial....With the two fake breasted bimbos.

      I have to agree that commercial was hilarious.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
    I read somewhere today (sorry can't remember where I read it) that the FTC is no longer chasing people, they are simply handing over the claims marketers make in their advertising to the IRS and letting them deal with it...

    Tax evasion is a serious thing and far worse that the FTC jumpin' on ya. At least that's what I've seen from the history of the IRS.

    Mike Hill
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  • Profile picture of the author enterpryzman
    Infomercials ALL make money, what they sell most often does not. This form of selling is now moving to local main-stream brick and morter companies.

    Enterpryzman
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  • Profile picture of the author dmail333
    I made money with John Alexander's system [before TV I paid $997] and I could have made money with John Becks. I was just impatient. It takes 6 mouths to a year to get total control of the houses. Just like people buy Guru's products an WSOs and don't do anything the same goes for "the good TV products" But on TV you have 1000 times more people failing. And the Feds hate Biz Opps.

    I made as much as 56k in one month following what Brad Richdale course. You don't have to buy all the upsells though... that's what you have to watch out for.

    I've bought lots of TV products [non Biz Opp] that have been great... and very few are weak.
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  • Profile picture of the author anthony2
    Jeff Paul always seem too be a honest marketer to me.
    I been following him for a long time now.
    When i still don't think he is a bad guy just one who made
    the wrong choice.
    When i seen his informical the big mistake he makes is by
    guaranteeing someone will make money. Which is a big NO NO.

    But overall i don't think he is some bad guy.
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