Why the Non- MMO Niche Marketers HATE the MMO Niche Marketers !

17 replies
Over the years (and in a recent thread yesterday that came to my attention) I have observed certain cases of undeniably friction between Marketers in the MMO Niche and those strictly in Non- MMO Niches .

I can see the point with the latter and their view point in some cases.

The fact is I was was one of the haters of the MMO niche for awhile. Being in the Weight Loss Niche and the Mobility Products and Language Niche for 6 years now I had a chip on my shoulder at those guys who pedaled IM products.
...i.e. selling the dream to other people and teaching those people how to sell the dream and teach others how to sell and teach the dream to others so they can sell and teach the dream on how to go out and even sell the dream to more people ad infinitum..............

I get it. And I was vocal about it many years here.
There are a bunch of crap Marketers out there.

But funny thing is I have also run into some outstanding MArketers in the MMO niche who are also in other non- MMO Niches. And they really know their stuff and teach applicable tactics to others.
And not just others who want to just pursue the IM Niche. They teach IM to people who are pursuing Niches that stretch from the Attorneys to Porn.

The whole gamut

These are Marketers not selling and teaching the Dream to others so they can sell and teach the dream to others etc..
They are forging relationships with real business strategies that have real value to them.


So I think over the years I have become less hasty in sizing some of the Marketers I come across.

The fact of the matter is there are bad apples in the MMO Niche as well as bad Apples in the Non- MMO Niche !


- Robert Andrew
#hate #marketers #mmo #niche
  • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
    Originally Posted by discrat View Post

    But funny thing is I have also run into some outstanding MArketers in the MMO niche who are also in other non- MMO Niches. And they really know their stuff and teach applicable tactics to others.
    And not just others who want to just pursue the IM Niche. They teach IM to people who are pursuing Niches that stretch from the Attorneys to Porn.
    Robert, I don't think the issue is with marketers selling MMO products per se. If they've had success in other fields and want to pass on their knowledge, that's great. But it's those operating in the incestuous circle who sell MMO products to beginners which teach them to sell MMO products to other beginners etc. that tend to rankle some of the more experienced members.


    .
    Signature


    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9732076].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

      Robert, I don't think the issue is with marketers selling MMO products per se. If they've had success in other fields and want to pass on their knowledge, that's great. But it's those operating in the incestuous circle who sell MMO products to beginners which teach them to sell MMO products to other beginners etc. that tend to rankle some of the more experienced members.


      .
      You mean this

      Originally Posted by discrat View Post

      ...i.e. selling the dream to other people and teaching those people how to sell the dream and teach others how to sell and teach the dream to others so they can sell and teach the dream on how to go out and even sell the dream to more people ad infinitum..............

      Just to be clear and for the Record, there are plenty of experienced MMO Niche Marketers who have NEVER been involved with Niches outside of MMO that are fantastic. I have run into a number of them

      Sorry if it seemed like I was implying that you had to be in other Niches outside of MMO to be legit and worthy.

      Such is not the case, whatsoever




      - Robert Andrew
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9732086].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
        Originally Posted by discrat View Post

        You mean this
        Yes. I was agreeing with you - and trying to clarify the distinction implied in the thread title.


        .
        Signature


        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9732098].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Steve B
        When you really get down to it, many marketers in every niche are "guilty" of selling the dream, as you call it.

        How many marketers sell the dream of writing a best seller on Kindle even though lots of folks can't create a simple sentence and know nothing about being an author?

        How many marketers sell the dream of getting rock hard abs when they know that only a tiny percentage of their customers will ever do the work necessary to realize the dream?

        How many marketers sell the dream of hooking up with a gorgeous lady when they know that the homely weird 40-year-old dude living with his mother will never have the chance?

        I guess my point is, which I don't think you considered, is that much of marketing in every niche is about selling a dream or vision of something you can have or become that many will never experience because, for whatever reason, they can't follow through on their part.

        Steve
        Signature

        Steve Browne, online business strategies, tips, guidance, and resources
        SteveBrowneDirect

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9732132].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author discrat
          Originally Posted by Steve B View Post

          When you really get down to it, many marketers in every niche are "guilty" of selling the dream, as you call it.

          How many marketers sell the dream of writing a best seller on Kindle even though lots of folks can't create a simple sentence and know nothing about being an author?

          How many marketers sell the dream of getting rock hard abs when they know that only a tiny percentage of their customers will ever do the work necessary to realize the dream?

          How many marketers sell the dream of hooking up with a gorgeous lady when they know that the homely weird 40-year-old dude living with his mother will never have the chance?

          I guess my point is, which I don't think you considered, is that much of marketing in every niche is about selling a dream or vision of something you can have or become that many will never experience because, for whatever reason, they can't follow through on their part.

          Steve
          Steve,
          Sorry I have to disagree.

          Your taking 'selling the dream' way out of context in your examples.

          Selling a dream to get hard Abs is something that a person can do and there is intrinsic value within the content of the product that tells you how to exactly get the hard abs

          Selling the dream of making money to people and within the content of the particular product for Example you just tell people " hey in this ebook I tell you how to approach people to sell this ebook and then those people will have the information within the ebook to learn how to sell that ebook to others who then in turn have the knowledge in the ebook to sell to others etc..etc.

          That is a World of difference.

          Sorry , that is like comparing apples to oranges.

          In the former, there is NO real value being exchanged. You are not offering a Product that has an end result . i.e one that could possibly change your physique with a six pack Ab.
          Its just a Product that makes most people 'nonE the smarter' and with little real life benefits other than hawking this E book and making money .

          Its a never ending viscous cycle of people running around like Turkeys with their heads cut off .

          Like I said there are many MMO products that do not do this , lets make that clear



          - Robert Andrew
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9732168].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

      Robert, I don't think the issue is with marketers selling MMO products per se.


      .
      Actually, in cases I have seen it is very much an issue. There is just no denying that. I am not proud of it but I was one of them years ago

      Iam talking about running into Marketers who have a disdain for ANYONE and I mean ANYONE who promotes IM Products. Whether it is their own or as an Affiliate or whether it is 'incestuous' or not

      Like I said this is from my own observation. It could be different for others.

      But it really struck a chord on me yesterday when I saw it first hand.... again


      - Robert Andrew
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9732116].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author benjamenjuan
    who really cares. the point is it takes real marketing skills to promote something, be it a product, service, ponzi scheme, mlm or whatever. biz op promoters should focus on building a team of proficient markets, just as any marketer should in the 'make money online' niche. that's the value when you break it down in any case.

    marketers should also cross promote whatever they can. haters can hate, it doesn't change anything.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9732186].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author kilgore
      Originally Posted by Steve B View Post

      I guess my point is, which I don't think you considered, is that much of marketing in every niche is about selling a dream or vision of something you can have or become that many will never experience because, for whatever reason, they can't follow through on their part.
      I too disagree with this. People on the WF tend to forget that most internet marketing is used to sell real, physical products or actual, tangible services.

      When I get that 10,000th email from Dell trying to get me to buy another server, you can bet that if I make that purchase, I'll get that server. Likewise, when I see that banner ad from Microsoft trying to get me to use the Microsoft Cloud, if I were to make a purchase there I know I would actually get something for my money -- and I'd know exactly what I was getting whether it was a virtual server, storage or database hosting.

      Moreover, neither Dell nor Microsoft is telling me that if I buy their server or use their services, it'll take my company from tiny startup to IPO in just two months. It's true that in both cases I may not be 100% satisfied with my purchase -- sometimes even physical products don't live up to expectations -- but that's a far cry from "selling a dream" that'll never come true.

      That said, I am not suggesting that MMO products don't have any value -- I've never actually bought one, so I'm in no place to judge. Moreover, I do know that I do have a good deal of respect for at least some MMOers (you included, Steve). But I think it's completely wrong to say that just because "selling a dream" is the norm in your niche, it's the norm for all marketers. That's just not true.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9732543].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author DubDubDubDot
    Nice topic.

    I think it's important to note that the debate transcends this forum, which is one relatively small corner of a very big industry. So there's a far reaching argument that can be brought into this that isn't limited to one Warrior's decision to push MMO info to his email list and another Warrior's choice to sell a fitness course on Clickbank. It goes beyond that.

    The more mainstream marketing/development/publishing world is only exposed to the occasional MMO info product. That might be hard to believe for some people since in these circles you get hit with that stuff from all directions everywhere you click. But the truth really is that the big gooroo names often mentioned here have little to no reach beyond this forum and closely related blogs and lists. In fact, if you went to a convention like Ad:Tech and walked around asking people if they've ever heard of various "well known MMO gurus" it is entirely possible that you'd have to ask perhaps dozens of people before you got the first hit.

    The broad industry hatred of the steriotypical MMO info product is coming from people who recognize that the claims on the sales page deviate too far from the reality of being an industry professional. The solution to most of this is to simply put a stop to the wild income claims and promises that newbies can become established pros very quickly.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9732699].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author The Niche Man
      Interesting topic. I love those Elephant- in- the room topics everyone's noticed but few want to bring up.

      It's a refreshing change from the ....
      • "What's a niche?
      • "Shiny object syndrome"?
      or
      • Is ______(you name it)_________ dead?
      Type subjects you constantly see.


      I haven't noticed the hate, but I have noticed the "better-than- those people" attitude many display in their comments.

      I think the majority of the (clearing throat) "concern" comes from the barely legal to blatant disregard of basic business ethics MMO has become known for. Again another unfortunate label, thanks to the few.

      The good part, in my opinion is MMO gets a lot of people in the game who would have otherwise stayed on the sidelines. Some of the best marketers and marketing techniques came from "those people" who were invovlved with MMO. Forget the few that give it a bad name.
      Signature
      Download "Free 80 Page E-Book"
      "201 Ways To Live Better On Less Money".
      "Because The Easiest Way To Make Money is ... ... By Saving Some First!"
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9732966].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
        [QUOTE=The Niche Man;9732966]


        I think the majority of the (clearing throat) "concern" comes from the barely legal to blatant disregard of basic business ethics MMO

        has become


        known for. Again another unfortunate label, thanks to the few.

        [QUOTE]

        In 1844 Charles Dickens wrote about it... in 1920 Charles Ponzi put his name on it...the Make Money Scam.

        So, it existed for a century (actually millenniums) before there was the O part of MMO.

        Online just makes it easier for scamsters and hucksters, snake oil salesman to find their prey, often targeting places where the desperate and hopeful people hang out.

        Entrepreneur Magazine was founded by one such dude, Chase Revel, a small time con man (according to the LA Times) who sold Business Start-Up Kits.

        Point being: Nothing New about Making Money Online/Offline which has always had it's share of rotten apples and so has the Other crowd as mentioned in the thread. Caveat emptor was the warning for centuries and the reason for the creation of FTC, FDA and other public protection agencies.

        And there are plenty of slim shadys in both worlds.

        gjabiz
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9734651].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author mialove
    I think you answered the question by yourself

    had a chip on my shoulder at those guys who pedaled IM products.
    ...i.e. selling the dream to other people and teaching those people how to sell the dream and teach others how to sell and teach the dream to others so they can sell and teach the dream on how to go out and even sell the dream to more people ad infinitum..............
    And this is exactly why i hate it so much
    Out of 50 IM lists i was subscribed in the past, ONLY 1 - had some real value and not the typical, beginners from beginners bulshit.
    .
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9732995].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author benjamenjuan
    That bc people just copy/paste bc it's there. The idea of copy paste system is nice but it's better to have your own, and that's what SHOULD be taught but rarely is in the mmo scene. Use branding techniques no matter what you promote.

    And there's your hate right there, still doesn't change ANYTHING and this really isn't a refreshing new topic it's the second time this month this topic has come up that I've seen besides the fact that you can probably find it many times over through the search function.

    Let's focus on building each other up instead of what seperates marketers.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9733108].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author benjamenjuan
    An offer is an offer get over it if you don't like it train your following how to market, not just copy paste. That's how you get on 50 lists an nobody has anything original.

    I STILL see marketers that promote "actual" products the same way, then wonder why they are frustrated at a lack of results they desire. Who taught them? Could warriors even take some responsibility?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9733124].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author tonyrichy
    I'm a non IM marketer in the automotive market doing quite well. Moving into IM to teach some really cool stuff.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9733825].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author collison
    Selling MMO products has some ambiguity. What is it? It is in actuality: Business to Business selling or B2B selling. These products are sold to other businesses, claiming that the products will make them more profitable, albeit the ‘businesses’ are mainly single operators or one man bands.

    MMO products only work if you are already successful in the first place. You have a process in place, which you can improve or build upon. Good products can multiply your success. But if you're not successful in the first place, MMO products will only cost you money and may even be damaging.

    The harm is when MMO sellers sell business products to people who should not be in business, and who will not implement a plan or implement it badly. There is this gray area : What is good product? What is bad product? There is no answer, it depends on how the product is implemented. Because of this gray area there will always be people who will try to take advantage of buyers.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9734606].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author agmccall
    I'm sorry, but I have never seen this "Friction" you are talking about.

    There are good, bad, and ugly marketers in all niches, that is just the way it is.

    It is up to us to be above the fray, so to speak.

    al
    Signature

    "Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work." Thomas Edison

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[9735079].message }}

Trending Topics