Willy - I feel your pain, man. I hate paypal and just expressed my opinions as such at this post.

I don't have a solution to beat Paypal. Their gooey, slobbering lovefest with scam buyers always seems to win out over legit sellers. All I can say is tell everyone you know about your problems with Paypal and let Paypal know that you are telling everyone. Post your gripes on paypalsucks.com and screw-paypal.com. I don't think it will get your cash back but maybe someone else will read it and realize that PAYPAL SUCKS!

Thanks guys. I cannot call them as it would be far too expensive however I did e-mail them but no such luck. They basically said nothing useful, I may try again and as Kyrool said add all the evidence and proof that I can possibly find although this was all added when the case was open.

Stupid Paypal

Funny - Infohog, that definitely motivates me. I would love to see someone streak down a street (I am not gay at all, just would be hilarious) ^^

Seems like I may not be in any luck though considering your past experiences. Worth a try though I guess.

Contact your domains registrar and explain the situation. Do you know the identity of the people you sold the sites to?

Tyrus

The chargeback was not made against you but against PayPal. There is nothing that PayPal could have done as the money was pulled out of their merchant account. Therefore they had to recoup the money lost from you. The buyer acted completely outside PayPal's TOS in raising the chargeback through his bank.

The only thing you can do is to insist that PayPal makes an appeal against this chargeback but the success rate is very low and it could take many months before the money is returned.

Thanks guys for all the help and information.

I know the guys address and email that he has put in to his paypal account and I could get other information of WHOIS.

The guy has the domains at godaddy where I transfered them to him, would Godaddy really act on my behalf if I was to E-mail them and explain the issue?

If the amount is $500 or more, you should have went Escrow all day. Between $100-$499 would cut into your profits if you go the Escrow route but it'd still be safe. Less than $100? Don't worry about it.

Edit: I am sorry to say but GoDaddy will completely blow you off as far as the domains. I sold two really good domains to someone at DP then he filed a dispute and got his money back along WITH the domains. GoDaddy and PayPal did absolutely NOTHING about the issue and they hid behind their dumbass TOS. Though GoDaddy says crap like "if you believe these domains were transferred in error let us know in 15 days". What a load of BS.

Buy yourself a phone card if phoning Paypal is too expensive. I live in Malaga in make international phone calls all the time at 2 cetns a minute, it is a pain dialing in about fifteen numbers before making the phone call but it is cheap, and I know I pay only five euros for the card.

La dominatrix

Yes, a friend sold his site. He went through Escrow services. The mere fact of using Escrow should help to sort out the fraud from the genuine.

Kenneth

Thanks everyone again. The person I believe lives in the USA so what rosetrees recommended probably wont work but thank you.

I shall E-mail godaddy although some of you seem apprehensive to say the least about what Godaddy may do, its worth a try.

It was much more than $500 over double this, perhaps next time I will go with Escrow now I have had a couple of bad experiences with Paypal maybe its time to move on for the bigger sales.

What sort of charges do Escrow have on selling? I believe paypal is 2.5%...

Have a third party contact the person who stole your Domain Names. Make him an offer he can't refuse for the names. After the domains are transferred have the third party do a chargeback. If all of your paperwork is in order you could probably justify your actions.

Just an evil thought preCoffee. Maybe I'll come back and delete this after the Folgers kicks in.

George Wright

I have had this done to me when I sold sites on eBay. Fortunately it was just for a couple of hundred or so. You don't stand much of a chance with this. It just sucks that the person gets to keep the site and gets their money back too.

When you are dealing with real money, or even if it is just a couple of hundred or so, I would choose escrow every time. Spell it out in the offer and make the buyer pay at least half, if not the whole amount. If you are selling a site for more than a grand, I don't think it is unfair to state that the buyer must pay half of the escrow fees. Just refer to it as the handling fee. Kind of like shipping and handling. People that want the site will not mind and the scamers, well who cares about them?

Wow, I am so glad that you posted this here because I was thinking about selling one of my websites through PayPal but now I don't it would be a good idea.

I can feel your pain a lot.

I would call PayPal and tell them about this situation. I had an issue a while back and calling them is the best way to go.

I really hope that you can get this resolved. Do you care to share with us how much you sold the site for?

Tal

Here is another solution for future reference.

I've done this although not to "protect myself" it just happens a lot when I sell a URL.

I have offered to keep the domain name under my control and just point the dns to the hosting for the client. Eventually the buyer gets around to asking for control of the URL so I push it to their registrar account.

Now here is the twist. INSIST on keeping control of the name until the refund period is over. Make it part of the written contract. "Seller keeps control of the URL for six months + one week." (past the charge back period) "Seller will point the URL to Buyer's website."

Everything works well for all and at the end of the 6+ months the name is transferred.

George Wright

Have to chime in here and say, you won't win anything. Paypal offers absolutely no protection for digital transactions at all. Not that this helps now, but in the past when selling domains/domain names to people I don't know I used escrow.com or another online site (NOT godaddy or sitepoint or a domain forum) dedicated to domain and site selling, they manage it all.
Paypal has changed its policies dramatically lately regarding ecommerce, digital goods and transactions, I totally left them after 8yrs. Also note they are not under any obligation to do anything at all being they are not regulated. They can close your account, keep funds and pretty much do anything they please and at their discretion.
Sites I use for domain name and site sales:
Buy, Sell, Appraise and Auction Domain Names at Sedo, the #1 domain name aftermarket, broker, reseller, and appraiser!
Afternic Domain Name Search: Buy, Sell, Resell, Park & Purchase Domain Names for Sale
Again, avoid forums and sites no dedicated solely to the sale of virtual real estate. I have sold over 18k in domain names and websites and have been thru it all!

I have been involved in a domain dispute before between UK and US. Not my domain. A lot more money was at stake. Like a whole business with 25 employees. If the cost is warranted you can get a solicitor to contact the registrar. They cannot hide behind their TOS where the law is concerned. If the domains legitimately belong to someone other than the registrant, and this can be proven they will return the domains rather than go to court.

But as I say, this is only valid if the value of the transaction warrants the fees. I suspect registrars are like banks and corporations. You can put your case together with as much knowledge as you like, but until it comes in the post recorded delivery on solicitor's letterhead, your case stays with paper pushers. As soon as they get a letter from a legal professional, it is beyond their remit and gets escalated. Sad but true.

If solicitors' fees are not warranted, I would definitely contact the registrar using snail mail, recorded delivery and make sure you know your legal ground and demonstrate this.

In the future, mail a backup on CD so you have proof of delivery.

For now, file a DMCA take down notice with GoDaddy and his host. Then email him letting him know that the site will be taken down each time he puts it up until he pays or trransfers it back to you.

If you realy want to piss him off and scare him:

1.) File a small claims suit and when he gets notice, he might scramble.
2.) Call his local police/sheriff and file theft charges.

Garrie

You can contact the domain registrar and domain hosting company. Show them the proof from paypal that the chargeback took place. I am sure they will take some strict action...

As a developer and someone that has built and sold 10,000's of websites/scripts I can tell you this...

1. Paypal has no choice but to refund the money because the credit card company/bank does have the final say as the government granted them the last say. All paypal can do is fight for you and provide the information you provided them.

2. There are several ways to protect what is yours.. First you encrypt the sites and add a call back function in the script to track it's use. If your license agreement is broken then you click a link that will disable the entire site from use. This is not illegal, this is done to protect your copyrighted works. If you provided no license agreement then that is a huge mistake on your part. 2nd require payment by mass paypal payment only, a credit card can not be used to make a mass payment and as such no charge back can be made.

3. I do not know why people think paypal will always take your money, this is not true.. When dealing with credit cards though this is out of paypal's control, thus why you use mass paypal payments because if someone files a claim using mass paypal payment then you do not need to deal with any bank, you deal with paypal and prove your case.

4. I disagree about using an escrow service, do the above and you will be fine...

James

If you refunded someone for a product, that product should be returned to you. Get all your documentation together and contact their hosting company with a take-down notice ... saying they did not pay for the domain and website, so are using your intellectual property fraudulently. Don't know if it will work, but worth a try. Then go to the registrar and do the same thing to see if you can get your domain back.

RipOffReport.com - At a minimum, make a post so others are not scammed by him.

Use escrow.com for larger transactions. PAYPAL SUCKS as previously stated.

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You have nothing to do except make a call to paypal and explain ur situation , but keep ur fingers crossed thought.
Now from now take care while selling digital goods with paypal, use shipping method to send codes or password,and sell the files via zip , so you can track the progress and help the seller to win the disputes.

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how do you do that?

seems to be ok now...thank you. I was getting wait 20-30 secs prior to posting message..but we're good now