A KILLER Traffic Strategy Few People Use (or understand)

by Todd Brown 72 replies
Hey guys... I've got another really effective strategy for you to generate traffic with a rarely used, but very effective, method.

If you're willing to do a little work this strategy will put you on the map very quickly. If you're not, this is not for you.

Anyway, here it is...

1. Create a fantastic information product. One that you would be extremely proud of and one that you would feel comfortable selling on ClickBank for $129 or so.

2. Put the product up for sale on ClickBank, only make the price $87 or even $79. This is an opportunity to for you to over-deliver value when the product is purchased.

3. GIVE AWAY MAX COMMISSION TO CB AFFILIATES. This is the most important step in the process as you'll see in a second.

4. Make sure you have a name capture page set up to capture the names and email addresses of all customers that purchase the product.

5. Repeat this process every 6 weeks.

A couple of things to point out about why this little method is a great business building/traffic tactic:

First, because affiliates are most interested in commissions, your offer of 100% commission on CB will entice more affiliates to promote your product. More affiliates obviously equals more sales (assuming you have a sales letter that converts).

Second, because this strategy is based on the idea of having a rock-solid backend of products in place, and you are over-delivering value on these front-ends, customers will be prone to purchase more from you with your backend offers. So, this method not only gets you front-end customers at truly NO COST, but it gets you customers that will convert at a higher rate on your backend offers.

Lastly, hopefully you can see how this customer acquisition strategy allows you to build your business WITHOUT having to spend money on paid traffic strategies - i.e. Adwords, banners, CPA, CPM mailings, etc. Personally, I recommend using EVERY profitable traffic-generation method available to you... the keyword being 'profitable'... but with this method you're getting targeted, backend CUSTOMER leads, who've paid for your front-end product, at ZERO COST. In essence, you're using your product and the commission on the product as the payment for affiliates. And, the outcome... you're getting highly-qualified CUSTOMER leads... people who have paid money... and you're not shelling out any money to make it happen.

Do this even just a couple of times, with a couple of top-quality front-end products on CB, and you'll have a front-end, customer acquisition machine in place!!

Enjoy,
~Todd Brown
TheSneakPeekBlog.com
#main internet marketing discussion forum #customers #killer #people #strategy #traffic #understand
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  • Profile picture of the author rapidscc
    Hi!

    Interesting..Though this will result in you only earning a little out of one front end product. Too little since only a few affiliates would initially buy the product. Then at 100% commission that means you will no longer be earning on subsequent purchases of your product coz purchases will be coursed through your affiliate. You can only earn out of direct purchases from click bank affiliates...Hmmm.

    Well, as you said, this is good in generating leads. When you are already a "BIG PLAYER" since to establish quality products means dedicating time and money preparing this kind of technique...

    This could work and most probably in your case its proven already. Though, in my opinion noobs won't benefit much on this technique, unless of course if they have plenty of resources to back it up with lengthy preparations...

    Still, interesting...

    Have a g'day!
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    • Profile picture of the author Chris Hunter
      Originally Posted by rapidscc View Post

      Hi!

      Interesting..Though this will result in you only earning a little out of one front end product. Too little since only a few affiliates would initially buy the product. Then at 100% commission that means you will no longer be earning on subsequent purchases of your product coz purchases will be coursed through your affiliate. You can only earn out of direct purchases from click bank affiliates...Hmmm.

      Well, as you said, this is good in generating leads. When you are already a "BIG PLAYER" since to establish quality products means dedicating time and money preparing this kind of technique...

      This could work and most probably in your case its proven already. Though, in my opinion noobs won't benefit much on this technique, unless of course if they have plenty of resources to back it up with lengthy preparations...

      Still, interesting...

      Have a g'day!
      Don't believe everything that you read here...
      Signature

      Ok, sure. You can follow me on Twitter - http://twitter.com/Chris_Hunter ;)

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      • Profile picture of the author dvduval
        You say you are collecting email addresses. So assume you will use this to expand your reach in the future through repeat buyers?
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        • Profile picture of the author Todd Brown
          Hey guys... yeah, my mistake... 75% commission payout... or MAX PAYOUT on commission.

          Also, yes... you're NOT trying to profit off of the front-end sale. You're simply using the front end sale to bring customer leads into the front end of your backend marketing funnel. That's it.

          In other words... and, nothing really new here... you're simply using the front end to get qualified customers to plug-in to your backend marketing/sales funnel. You're recognizing that the real money in your IM business comes from the backend not the frontend.

          Lastly, this is a perfect strategy for newbies because it doesn't require a large investment... except for maybe some web graphics. This is exactly how a newbie can leverage the power of CB affiliates. And, because today it's extremely simple to create quality products fairly quickly, that is the only true constraint in the whole system.

          Enjoy,
          ~Todd Brown
          Todd Brown’s TheSneakPeekBlog.com
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    • Profile picture of the author MaskedMarketer
      Originally Posted by rapidscc View Post

      Hi!

      Interesting..Though this will result in you only earning a little out of one front end product. Too little since only a few affiliates would initially buy the product.
      There is nothing wrong with earning too little on the front end, at least you are making money. Bigger budgeted marketers or companies will actually lose money on the front end to acquire customers because the real money is on the back end.
      Signature

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      "


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  • Profile picture of the author Harvey Segal
    Originally Posted by Todd Brown View Post

    3. GIVE AWAY 100% COMMISSION TO CB AFFILIATES.
    Maximum CB commission is 75%

    Harvey
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    • Profile picture of the author John Taylor
      A KILLER Traffic Strategy Few People Use (or understand)
      Clearly, something you don't understand either. Else, if
      you did you would know that CB don't pay out 100%
      commissions.

      John
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Buckley
      [DELETED]
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      • Profile picture of the author Scott Ames
        Just to be sure that Clickbank didn't make a recent change, I checked. Here is the message I got trying to change to a 100% commission:


        The following problem(s) prevented the changes from being saved.
        Commission cannot be greater than 75%.

        I think that is to protect Clickbanks fees more than anything. It would be nice if they did allow 100%. A workaround for them is to have the publisher deposit funds to cover the fees if there is not enough in the account.
        Signature

        Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm. -Winston Churchill

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        • Profile picture of the author sylviad
          Originally Posted by Scott Ames View Post

          Just to be sure that Clickbank didn't make a recent change, I checked. Here is the message I got trying to change to a 100% commission:

          The following problem(s) prevented the changes from being saved.
          Commission cannot be greater than 75%.

          I think that is to protect Clickbanks fees more than anything. It would be nice if they did allow 100%. A workaround for them is to have the publisher deposit funds to cover the fees if there is not enough in the account.
          If you really wanted to pursue this 100%, you could always offer them the difference either 1) with cashback (like a rebate) or 2) with a 25% coupon discount on their next purchase.

          However, I'm with Ken... even experienced marketers can have trouble coming up with #1.

          Sylvia
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    • Profile picture of the author Paul Buckley
      Originally Posted by Harvey.Segal View Post

      Maximum CB commission is 75%

      Harvey
      That's the first thing that jumped out at me
      Signature

      "Wise men speak because they have something to say; fools because they have to say something." -Plato

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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Hunter
    You'll have to forgive me because the SARCASM factor is really amped up for me this morning...

    We're all familiar with the "$7 Script" method which this is a derivative of, so nothing new there.

    It's my understanding that you can only offer up to 75% commission on Clickbank. When did it change to 100%?

    Also, are you offering a way for the affiliate to CONTINUE making money from the LEADS and the BACKEND PRODUCTS that the AFFILIATE sent you?
    Signature

    Ok, sure. You can follow me on Twitter - http://twitter.com/Chris_Hunter ;)

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    • Profile picture of the author Darth Executor
      Originally Posted by Chris Hunter View Post

      We're all familiar with the "$7 Script" method which this is a derivative of, so nothing new there.
      The $7 dollar script is just a really elaborate pyramid scheme.
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      • Profile picture of the author Scott Million
        Originally Posted by Darth Executor View Post

        The $7 dollar script is just a really elaborate pyramid scheme.
        Interesting perception. 'Pyramid schemes' as I'm familiar with involve the process of acquiring affiliates/buyers underneith your position and you get a portion of the sale from whatever they buy or from the affiliates/buyers that they recruit.

        The $7 dollar script just allows you give affiliates 100% of the commission for selling your front end product. This is designed to explode your sales and traffic in order to build a list quickly to sell to it at a later point in time and/or make a substantial income through backend offers or upsells at the point of purchase / throughout the product itself.
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          This plan has so many holes in it, a piece of Swiss cheese looks more intact.

          For one thing, how many people can create a product worth $127 or
          whatever, sell it for $79 and then actually be able to come up with a backend
          upsell worth even more?

          You're not talking about some schmuck who just started out in this business.

          And the person who CAN do this, doesn't need to because either.

          1. He already is.

          2. He's doing something else and is already having plenty of success.

          You've outlined a plan that, for the people who need it, isn't doable, for
          the most part.
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          • Profile picture of the author Scott Million
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            This plan has so many holes in it, a piece of Swiss cheese looks more intact.

            For one thing, how many people can create a product worth $127 or
            whatever, sell it for $79 and then actually be able to come up with a backend
            upsell worth even more?

            You're not talking about some schmuck who just started out in this business.

            And the person who CAN do this, doesn't need to because either.

            1. He already is.

            2. He's doing something else and is already having plenty of success.

            You've outlined a plan that, for the people who need it, isn't doable, for
            the most part.
            Well said

            I consider this a scam because someone could easily just cough up a hundred bucks or two, get some loser to write one for them and get 100% of their sales.
            I take it you're a 'the glass is always half empty' guy...lol. Paying someone to create a product for you to sell is a wonderful idea. Some people are better at product creation than marketing, so both the marketer and product creator benefit from doing business together whether its an upfront fee or share of the profit...this has nothing to do with the $7 script anyway...

            The way it's done, your customers are pretty much paying you 50% to take their money off their hands.
            Not sure what you mean here...if a customer buys your product and likes it then both the seller and buyer benefit. If the buyer then decides to promote the product and become an affiliate then he's helping other people find something that he himself enjoyed while making 100% of the profit. The product owner then makes more sales and is able to outstretch his reach to a larger market that he could not have otherwise reached on his own.

            Let's look at an example of how this works

            Great Read for Noobies

            John (the product owner) recognizes that there are a lot of people looking for credit cards that accept applicants with marginal credit. He doesn't know how to find this all out himself (without spending 40 hours on it) so he hires someone to obtain this information and he pays them $200 for it.

            John is happy because he just saved 40 hours worth of his time which he values at $20/hour. This means he just saved 40 x $20 = $800 - $200 = $600 by outsourcing his work.

            He can now offer a product to people that they need and that's worthy of purchase. The product creator is happy because he was able to find all this information out in 8 hours, so he made $200 for the day.

            John now sells the product for $7. All those who purchase receive a list of the best credit cards to apply to given their poor credit. John then links to each credit card offer and makes $20-$160 for each application (at no extra cost to the consumer.)

            John then decides to make his $7 report go viral by offering his customers 100% of the commissions. Joe, who just purchased the product, was able to get a credit card and he's so excited about it that he emails his three friends telling them about this amazing report with his affiliate link.

            Those three friends buy the product and repeat the process. Meanwhile, John is making a killing from credit card apps and feels good about his business because he's selling something that people are in desperate need of at a more than fair price ($7!)...

            The product owner, creator, affiliate, and buyer all benefit from John's decision to outsource the creation of this report, sell it for $7, and offer 100% commission to all those who promote it.

            What's negative here?

            BTW - I just gave away a terrific opportunity for noobies. Head to Credit Card Offers | Read reviews and compare credit cards if you want to actually try this out

            Now go get 'em and think positive!!!
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            • Profile picture of the author Darth Executor
              Originally Posted by Scott Million View Post

              I take it you're a 'the glass is always half empty' guy...lol. Paying someone to create a product for you to sell is a wonderful idea. Some people are better at product creation than marketing, so both the marketer and product creator benefit from doing business together whether its an upfront fee or share of the profit...this has nothing to do with the $7 script anyway...
              Yes I am. =)
              And yes it does. Instead of selling a 7 dollar product where you make 50% from the affiliate links inside the guy you got it from makes 50% you can pay someone to make it for you and make 100%. The truth is that in the case of the scam, after making the product the creator has very few expenses. Expenses nowhere near 50% of the profits the ebook makes from someone else's work.

              Not sure what you mean here...if a customer buys your product and likes it then both the seller and buyer benefit.
              Yes. And if the buyer goes on and sells it to other people the original seller benefits as well(without deserving to, IMO) when the buyer could just make another product similar to the original one and get 100% for his hard work instead of just 50%. And for the record, most ebooks with affiliates, the $7 one is pretty much useless crap I'd be ashamed to charge 1 cent for on its own.


              If the buyer then decides to promote the product and become an affiliate then he's helping other people find something that he himself enjoyed while making 100% of the profit. The product owner then makes more sales and is able to outstretch his reach to a larger market that he could not have otherwise reached on his own.

              Let's look at an example of how this works

              ...

              The product owner, creator, affiliate, and buyer all benefit from John's decision to outsource the creation of this report, sell it for $7, and offer 100% commission to all those who promote it.

              What's negative here?
              The negative is that the owner and creator makes buttloads of money he doesn't deserve (IMO) at the expense of the buyer/affiliate.

              BTW - I just gave away a terrific opportunity for noobies. Head to Credit Card Offers | Read reviews and compare credit cards if you want to actually try this out

              Now go get 'em and think positive!!!
              lol
              I'm noobish but I'm not a total noob. No money for me until a couple of cheques come in anyway.
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              • Profile picture of the author Scott Million
                Originally Posted by Darth Executor View Post

                Yes I am. =)
                And yes it does. Instead of selling a 7 dollar product where you make 50% from the affiliate links inside the guy you got it from makes 50% you can pay someone to make it for you and make 100%. The truth is that in the case of the scam, after making the product the creator has very few expenses. Expenses nowhere near 50% of the profits the ebook makes from someone else's work.



                Yes. And if the buyer goes on and sells it to other people the original seller benefits as well(without deserving to, IMO) when the buyer could just make another product similar to the original one and get 100% for his hard work instead of just 50%. And for the record, most ebooks with affiliates, the $7 one is pretty much useless crap I'd be ashamed to charge 1 cent for on its own.


                If the buyer then decides to promote the product and become an affiliate then he's helping other people find something that he himself enjoyed while making 100% of the profit. The product owner then makes more sales and is able to outstretch his reach to a larger market that he could not have otherwise reached on his own.



                The negative is that the owner and creator makes buttloads of money he doesn't deserve (IMO) at the expense of the buyer/affiliate.



                lol
                I'm noobish but I'm not a total noob. No money for me until a couple of cheques come in anyway.
                A lot going on here, but it sounds like your objection is mostly about the merchant not deserving the increased sales volume and/or backend sales'

                ...then I suppose you're REALLY against splitting the commission with the merchant...which encompasses affiliate marketing all together...lol.

                We can agree to disagree on this one...my opinion - the merchant isn't forcing anyone to promote his product and those who do make $7 and are well aware of their compensation, so they are or should be 100% satisfied. If not, then they should stop whining and create a similar product to promote themselves.

                Cheeeerio!
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                • Profile picture of the author Scott Million
                  I don't see anywhere in the OP's post that this strategy is addressed to newbies.
                  Chris, the original post has been modified and that portion removed

                  By the way - thanks for addressing the GA code issue with the conduit blog theme. It's working for my homepage, but I'm trying to figure out how to get it to work for each 'post'

                  Cheers...
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              • Profile picture of the author Gary Huynh
                I think the core strategy here is to create something like a loss leader to build your marketing funnel for free (or at a slight loss) as the name implies. By doing it the way Todd suggests, you're creating tremendous value and customer loyalty.

                This is a viable method for markets where there are lots of opportunity for backend products. Some niches that come to mind are: IM, dating, fitness, self improvement.

                Not only should you be building a customer list but you should also be building a list by giving away a free report to your visitors.

                The true power in utilizing this method is to have laser targeted focus on the method. This can be said for most marketing methods. If you focus your energy on one method instead of spreading it out over many methods, you'll be more successful.
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                • If you want to stay in the game and be seen as a leader, you are going to have to have really good content for the first offer and if you do have a backend offer that is more expensive, it is going to have to be ten times better than the first product. You are better building a good name for yourself with a really good couple of front end products that you can sell for more than $100 or $200. Maybe sell it for $397 but it better be good other wise nobody will buy it. Also make sure to hire someone to create your sales page unless you are a good copy writer.

                  As far as the second product is concerned, I would focus on putting all your information in your first product and build a list with those customers. Then focus on selling other peoples more expensive products. If you are a top seller, you will be able to create a good relationship with the main publisher and can possibly work on something in the future together. You can put your ideas together and build an even better "second" product and charge even more.
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                • Profile picture of the author OnlineMasterMind
                  Todd,

                  I think I've seen you on one of Jeff Walker's case studies; it's clear you're a passionate marketer with a lot of good ideas.

                  I enjoy reading your posts; keep em coming!
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              • Profile picture of the author Daniel E Taylor
                Originally Posted by Darth Executor View Post

                Yes I am. =)
                And yes it does. Instead of selling a 7 dollar product where you make 50% from the affiliate links inside the guy you got it from makes 50% you can pay someone to make it for you and make 100%. The truth is that in the case of the scam, after making the product the creator has very few expenses. Expenses nowhere near 50% of the profits the ebook makes from someone else's work.



                Yes. And if the buyer goes on and sells it to other people the original seller benefits as well(without deserving to, IMO) when the buyer could just make another product similar to the original one and get 100% for his hard work instead of just 50%. And for the record, most ebooks with affiliates, the $7 one is pretty much useless crap I'd be ashamed to charge 1 cent for on its own.


                If the buyer then decides to promote the product and become an affiliate then he's helping other people find something that he himself enjoyed while making 100% of the profit. The product owner then makes more sales and is able to outstretch his reach to a larger market that he could not have otherwise reached on his own.



                The negative is that the owner and creator makes buttloads of money he doesn't deserve (IMO) at the expense of the buyer/affiliate.



                lol
                I'm noobish but I'm not a total noob. No money for me until a couple of cheques come in anyway.

                No offense... but what the F*ck are you talking about?

                Nothing you are saying even makes remote sense.

                "The negative is that the owner and creator makes buttloads of money he doesn't deserve (IMO) at the expense of the buyer/affiliate."

                That sentence solidifies the fact you need to step back
                re-evaluate what you think you know about marketing/business
                and realize you don't know jack shit. Time for you to go study my friend.

                Daniel
                Signature

                Self Actualization is one's true purpose. Everything
                else is an illusion.

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        • Profile picture of the author Darth Executor
          Originally Posted by Scott Million View Post

          Interesting perception. 'Pyramid schemes' as I'm familiar with involve the process of acquiring affiliates/buyers underneith your position and you get a portion of the sale from whatever they buy or from the affiliates/buyers that they recruit.
          Yes, and the $7 dollar thingie does the exact same thing. You give away something for them to sell and keep 100% of the profits but get paid 50% of all the money the front-end product makes from the links inside. Likewise, the next "generation" of people who buy it do the same thing and you get 50% of THEIR sales too. This keeps spreading and spreading with you profiting at every step of the way. I consider this a scam because someone could easily just cough up a hundred bucks or two, get some loser to write one for them and get 100% of their sales. The way it's done, your customers are pretty much paying you 50% to take their money off their hands.
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          • Profile picture of the author chris_surfrider
            Originally Posted by Darth Executor View Post

            Yes, and the $7 dollar thingie does the exact same thing. You give away something for them to sell and keep 100% of the profits but get paid 50% of all the money the front-end product makes from the links inside. Likewise, the next "generation" of people who buy it do the same thing and you get 50% of THEIR sales too. This keeps spreading and spreading with you profiting at every step of the way. I consider this a scam because someone could easily just cough up a hundred bucks or two, get some loser to write one for them and get 100% of their sales. The way it's done, your customers are pretty much paying you 50% to take their money off their hands.
            WHAT are you talking about?

            All the $7 Script does is allow affiliates to earn 100% commissions.

            It's a simplistic and effective affiliate script.

            It doesn't even support 2-tier referrals, so there's no possible way it could be a pyramid scam in any remote sense.

            -Chris
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            Making 6 Figures From Affiliate Marketing is Easier Than You Think. Here's Proof:

            http://www.TheLazyMarketer.com

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  • Profile picture of the author Ron Douglas
    Originally Posted by Todd Brown View Post


    1. Create a fantastic information product. One that you would be extremely proud of and one that you would feel comfortable selling on ClickBank for $129 or so.

    5. Repeat this process every 6 weeks.
    Good luck with that newbies.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ken Preuss
      Interesting plan, except for one key problem...

      Most people won't 1) try to or 2) be able to effectively complete step 1.

      Ken
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      Coming soon for all you IM junkies... The Internet Daily Show

      A Secret to Success: Making serious money online or offline is not complex unto itself - we're the ones who complicate it. Simply sell them what they are already buying.

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      • Profile picture of the author kkgem
        That is correct. Maximum Commision at Clickbank is 75%. This cheap 7 bucks script strategy is really nothing new.
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      • Profile picture of the author TopNotchContent
        Interesting sales funnel...what kind of back-end products would you offer? A physical product (i.e. manual plus CD's) with a price point of $247 then monthly consulting at price point of $397? Any thoughts?
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      • Profile picture of the author aditya1107
        Nice Trick, but it could be little complicated for newbie!!!!!!!!!!!!
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        • Profile picture of the author rapidscc
          Newbie to Newbie :-)

          1. Think of something that attracts your attention.
          is it your cat? is it your dog? is it the wife of your neighboor? hehehe

          2. Check out in google the mass of results returned when you search it.
          phrase your keyword like:

          Persian cat care, bulldog shiatzu, seduce your neighboor :-)

          if the return is less than 300,000 you have a chance to dominate it.

          3. Build a website

          3.1. Download KompoZer (HTML editor) or Nvu for mac free
          3.2. Goto freetemplates.com, download web templates
          3.3. Prepare about five articles.
          (Steven is the authority on this, go ask him)
          3.4. Make your website. add your article
          3.5. apply for a google adsense account.

          4. Pay for hosting and domain name

          5. Submit a small article in EzineArticles.com include your URL link

          6. Submit a small article in goarticles.com include your URL link

          7. Goto Social bookmarking service. Fast tagging and posting to all major social websites - SocialMarker.com and bookmark your site on diff. BM sites

          7.1. In my experience it took me two days to do this in both
          onlywire.com and socialmarker.com, I don't care how fast others
          did it. With me it took me TWO DAYS to sign up on all BM sites.

          8. Wait for a day or two and search your keyword. see where you placed.

          --------
          This is the loooongg process coz initial money depends on adsense clicks.
          but the sense of achievement here is quite big. You will have a working
          website with traffic.

          After this, go ask the long timers here about good WSO (warrior special offers) that you can place in your site for REAL DECENT CASH!

          Me I'm on the process of doing this..Will update you all when my site is up..

          And ohh by the way..I did some shortcuts on the contents..I managed to learn some extremely good technique/work around to populate my site with quality articles in less than a day, 50 articles in all.

          - The technique, is an ace up my sleeve, it's nothing that you can't learn here, if you're really serious. I can tell if anybody is interested. But then you'll have to buy me a beer :-)
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    • Profile picture of the author Ricter
      Originally Posted by Ron Douglas View Post

      Good luck with that newbies.
      Good luck with that, anyone. I think Stephen King takes 3 months to write a first draft, and his first rate product sells for what, $10-12?
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      • Profile picture of the author chris_surfrider
        Originally Posted by Ricter View Post

        Good luck with that, anyone. I think Stephen King takes 3 months to write a first draft, and his first rate product sells for what, $10-12?
        I bought a short course once for $9 that someone had obviously spent about 2 hours putting together.

        But the CONTENT itself was awesome.

        What I learned directly from that course made me about $70,000 that year.

        Know this:

        When you buy a Stephen King book, what you're buying is entertainment. It NEEDS to be long, because you want to be entertained.

        But when you buy a course or an info-product, what you're looking for is an ANSWER. A process. And really, more than anything - you want the results.

        People who are facing a divorce, or a foreclosure, or who want their cat to stop pissing on their bed, or who want to get rid of "man boobs" - or what have you - they don't give a flying crap how "entertaining" the product is, or how it's presented.

        They want results.

        So if you can give it to them and fulfill your promises - the format and length is truly beside the point.

        It's amazing how many people don't see the simplicity of this principle.

        -Chris
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        • Profile picture of the author Ricter
          It may have taken him two hours to put it together, but I bet that guy spent a lot more than two hours learning his stuff.
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          • Profile picture of the author chris_surfrider
            It may have taken him two hours to put it together, but I bet that guy spent a lot more than two hours learning his stuff.
            Fair enough, but I still don't see your point.

            I've created a few products where I myself knew nothing about the topic - by conducting interviews with industry experts and by hiring them to create content.

            Whether it's a few hours or a few days, you can EASILY create a very high-quality product this way, and it's really not that expensive either. Couple hundred bucks.

            What I'm trying to say with this is that instead of creating barriers - you need to start SEEING what's actually possible.

            It's truly just a choice.

            Writing 10 articles a day and rolling out an "empire" of squidoo lenses and whatever else is a LOT more work and effort than producing a high-quality product and a hot-selling sales letter.

            -Chris
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            • Profile picture of the author Ricter
              Originally Posted by chris_surfrider View Post

              Fair enough, but I still don't see your point.

              I've created a few products where I myself knew nothing about the topic - by conducting interviews with industry experts and by hiring them to create content.

              Whether it's a few hours or a few days, you can EASILY create a very high-quality product this way, and it's really not that expensive either. Couple hundred bucks.

              What I'm trying to say with this is that instead of creating barriers - you need to start SEEING what's actually possible.

              It's truly just a choice.

              Writing 10 articles a day and rolling out an "empire" of squidoo lenses and whatever else is a LOT more work and effort than producing a high-quality product and a hot-selling sales letter.

              -Chris
              I just can't get my head around the idea floating around here that you can create a "great" product from scratch in two hours and make more money than someone who has 20 years experience in the same topic and can express nuances only his/her peers will fully understand. What would you call his/her product, "really, really great"?

              It's hard to believe all the two hour experts are out-competing those who work harder. Maybe no one is trying harder anymore??
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          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
            I've been trying to hold my tongue on this whole issue but if I do, I'm doing
            a lot of people a HUGE injustice.

            The biggest problem in Internet marketing, as far as getting people off the
            ground and running, is oversimplifying the process. This is probably the single
            biggest reason why newbies get frustrated.

            They're fed the following:

            1. Step 1 - do this

            2. Step 2 - do that

            3. Step 3 - and then do this

            What they're not explained is how much research, work, time, effort
            and everything else is required to do those 3 steps.

            And yes, I am speaking from personal experience. This is not theory I am
            talking about. This is the cold hard reality of building your own business.

            That's why when I see posts like this I want to tear my hair out of my
            head.

            I know exactly how much sweat and hard work is involved with this very
            plan.

            Stumbling block 1 - Coming up with your loss leader. On this grand scale,
            putting together a somewhat high end product to more or less give away,
            is not easy. A lot of knowledge and/or research is going to have to go
            into the creation of this product. That is something that is beyond most
            folks starting out or even those doing this for 6 months to a year.

            Stumbling block 2 - Making sales. Great. You managed to come up with
            this killer product that's worth $127 or whatever and you're going to sell
            it for $77 or whatever. Even at that price point, it's tough to make sales
            unless you have a name. My first product was $19.95. THAT is how I broke
            into product creation. NOT with a $127 product that I sold for $77. I
            would have never made it. Not just starting out.

            Stumbling block 3 - Following Up. Okay, so you've managed to make sales,
            maybe. Now you have to come up with an even better product to follow
            up with. Most people just starting out have probably shot their load with
            the first product. Why? Because they didn't have enough knowledge to
            know what to hold back for the followup. They're so consumed with
            putting together something that is going to blow people away that they
            have nothing left afterwards.

            Chris, I have the greatest respect in the world for you. I even recommend
            your products to others. I'm sure you make 5 X as much as I do a year
            and will probably ever will make, but you are way too simplifying this whole
            process and that can be dangerous to somebody who thinks this is so
            easy to begin with.

            That's why the failure level is so high in this industry. People trying to
            start their own business are led to believe that it's a piece of cake.

            It's not. And if I'm the only one on this freakin planet who has the stones
            enough to say to people that being successful with your own business
            takes a sh*t load of work, then that's fine.

            We need to get away from the "do this, do this and do that" mentality
            that has marketers thinking that this stuff is like falling off a log. Work
            is required...lots of it.

            And I haven't even touched on all the skills and/or money that you're going
            to need to pull this off. That's another subject that I could go on about
            for a week, so don't get me started.

            There is a much better way for newbs to get started. I'd post it here but
            I've gone on too long.

            No don't worry, this isn't leading to any frickin WSO or anything like that.
            I'm going to start my own thread with a much simpler and doable method
            for actually going from zero to a nice sized income without having to
            create the greatest thing since sliced bread.

            It's coming soon.
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            • Profile picture of the author chris_surfrider
              Hi Stephen,

              I'm not saying that this doesn't take work.

              And I'm definitely not saying that this also doesn't require research.

              All I'm saying is that once you "get it" - and we all go through the process of learning the hard way to some degree, I sure did - it really does become simple.

              Yes, there's a lot to this business.

              And product creation is just one facet.

              The other half of success as a merchant that most people won't understand until they see it is customer support.

              There's nothing like launching a product and then getting 600 support tickets the next day.

              It's all part of it, and yes, it takes work. What ends up happening is that you have to structure and build a real business - with support staff, content creators, and so on.

              I'm not saying it doesn't.

              What I AM saying, though, is that it's worth it, and in many cases, a lot of affiliates are working 10 times as hard to earn 10 times less than the merchants they promote.

              That's just a reality that comes with the territory, based on leverage.

              But if I'm guilty of making this sound too simple, then I'd have to say that you're guilty of making this sound too hard.

              If you treat this like a regular business - like you would offline - it truly is a cinch.

              Even if you outsourced everything (sales copy, product dev, support, biz dev, etc), it would still be a fraction of the outlay you'd have with a much smaller "normal" business offline.

              So I won't re-adjust my position in saying that this is simple.

              It is simple.

              Not easy at first, but it is simple.

              -Chris
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              • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                Originally Posted by chris_surfrider View Post

                Hi Stephen,

                I'm not saying that this doesn't take work.

                And I'm definitely not saying that this also doesn't require research.

                All I'm saying is that once you "get it" - and we all go through the process of learning the hard way to some degree, I sure did - it really does become simple.

                Yes, there's a lot to this business.

                And product creation is just one facet.

                The other half of success as a merchant that most people won't understand until they see it is customer support.

                There's nothing like launching a product and then getting 600 support tickets the next day.

                It's all part of it, and yes, it takes work. What ends up happening is that you have to structure and build a real business - with support staff, content creators, and so on.

                I'm not saying it doesn't.

                What I AM saying, though, is that it's worth it, and in many cases, a lot of affiliates are working 10 times as hard to earn 10 times less than the merchants they promote.

                That's just a reality that comes with the territory, based on leverage.

                But if I'm guilty of making this sound too simple, then I'd have to say that you're guilty of making this sound too hard.

                If you treat this like a regular business - like you would offline - it truly is a cinch.

                Even if you outsourced everything (sales copy, product dev, support, biz dev, etc), it would still be a fraction of the outlay you'd have with a much smaller "normal" business offline.

                So I won't re-adjust my position in saying that this is simple.

                It is simple.

                Not easy at first, but it is simple.

                -Chris

                If your point is that it's "simple" then yes, in theory, this blueprint is very
                simple. That's the problem with most things that are simple.

                Rolling a bowling ball down an alley is simple. I know, I used to bowl.
                Rolling it down an alley with consistency and bowling a 200 plus average
                to be able to tour with the pros takes countless years of practice.

                Yeah, I know, with IM, you can just get other people to roll the ball down
                the alley for you. But if you go that route, you better have the funds to
                pay them with. If you don't, then you need to have some skill or something
                that you can barter with.

                Or maybe I'm just an idiot. Hey, it's possible. Just because it took me over
                4 years to reach 6 figures a year doesn't mean it has to take everybody
                that long. Like I said, I ain't the most successful or smartest marketer on
                the planet, but I do know that this was nothing close to pushing a few
                buttons. If I didn't have my writing skills, I'd be broke today. And yes, I
                would be because I didn't HAVE the money to outsource my whole business.
                I was out of work for years before I finally decided on IM. I was close to
                being out on the street. So the $200 a month I was spending on
                promotion when I first started was like risking my life in the process. Not
                many people really know the hell I went through to get where I am. It was
                a ton of work.

                It still is.
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                • Profile picture of the author Mike Bogowski
                  Wow,

                  There is a nice little discussion going on here

                  Steven, I tend to agree with Chris here for the most part. A family friend of mine started his own take away restaurant and spent over 50,000 on setting up the business. He busted his butt for over 2 years to make 70000 per year and ended up selling the business for less than it cost him to set up. He came out with nothing but the money he earned, he may aswell have been working a J.O.B.

                  Me? I can spend $500 on product creation, website set up and promotion (and that would be a lot) and have a revenue stream capable of pulling in 5 figures a year. Sure, sometimes ill spend that $500 and wont even make that back in the first few months but that is a small outlay for the potential rewards.

                  Is it easy? I think the steps themselves are VERY easy as long as you follow it properly. What makes it hard for people is all the stopping and starting, the jumping around and the half ass attempts.

                  You are in no way an idiot and it may have taken you 4 years but the fact is that you started from nothing and are now able to make hundreds a day even when you sit around playing guitar (nice post by the way ) . There aren't too many businesses in the world that would give you that luxury.
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                • Profile picture of the author chris_surfrider
                  Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                  If your point is that it's "simple" then yes, in theory, this blueprint is very
                  simple. That's the problem with most things that are simple.

                  Rolling a bowling ball down an alley is simple. I know, I used to bowl.
                  Rolling it down an alley with consistency and bowling a 200 plus average
                  to be able to tour with the pros takes countless years of practice.

                  Yeah, I know, with IM, you can just get other people to roll the ball down
                  the alley for you. But if you go that route, you better have the funds to
                  pay them with.
                  If you don't, then you need to have some skill or something
                  that you can barter with.

                  Or maybe I'm just an idiot. Hey, it's possible. Just because it took me over
                  4 years to reach 6 figures a year doesn't mean it has to take everybody
                  that long. Like I said, I ain't the most successful or smartest marketer on
                  the planet, but I do know that this was nothing close to pushing a few
                  buttons. If I didn't have my writing skills, I'd be broke today. And yes, I
                  would be because I didn't HAVE the money to outsource my whole business.
                  I was out of work for years before I finally decided on IM. I was close to
                  being out on the street. So the $200 a month I was spending on
                  promotion when I first started was like risking my life in the process. Not
                  many people really know the hell I went through to get where I am. It was
                  a ton of work.

                  It still is.
                  Stephen,

                  I've bolded a few things above that I'm going to address.

                  There is NO problem with simple things that work. Of course there's a learning curve, and yes, it takes practice, blood, sweat, tears and all the rest of it. That is a given with anything that you want to excel with.

                  But - as I'll address below - it doesn't *all* have to rely on you. This is where most people shoot themselves in the foot.

                  Having the funds to pay affiliates for performance? With ClickBank?

                  Well, if you really want me to explain that one I will, but...

                  Moving on - and this is the big issue:

                  You seem to be myopic in the way you view your business. I've seen from this thread and others that you're structuring your business in such a way where there's really no outside promotional help.

                  In another thread, you mentioned that training affiliates was a waste of time, and that you do better on your own, etc.

                  And in this one, you mention that your writing is what saves you.

                  Let me be very clear about something here. Entrepreneurship is the skill of creating an ENTERPRISE. Finding others with talent, using other people's resources, and so on.

                  That's what business IS.

                  If everything just depends on you, then essentially, what you've got is a job.

                  How do you think ANYONE starts a "real" business?

                  They apply for a loan from the bank, or from relatives, or whoever, so they can actually try to make it work. And it's hard. Damn hard.

                  Hell, my brother built a hot-tub retail business that now has multiple stores in BC. He started out his garage and slowly built it up over time. He worked a full time job for several years simultaneously to float the boat, as well as flipping a few houses, just to make it all fly.

                  He literally just quit his job a short while ago.

                  That's what it takes.

                  And yes, his process was simple as well. It's not rocket science.

                  And dude - let's make something crystal clear: I ain't no silver-spoon fed kid who started out on daddy's bankroll.

                  I had nothing. NOTHING. For two years.

                  Somehow I got by selling stuff on ebay and making chump change off the net.

                  We've all had our proving grounds, but that doesn't make the simplicity of this any less apparent.

                  The reason why I was broke was because I was doing something WRONG.

                  When I started promoting stuff that actually converted well, and then later started selling my own similar products - I was doing something RIGHT.


                  It's not about how "hard" you work or even your own talents.

                  It's about recognizing what does work, and then making that work for you.

                  How you run your business is up to you, but I would caution you that this style of thinking, where so much depends on YOU - is faltered and severely limited.

                  You need to step back and think about how you can build an enterprise, rather than a service.

                  Consider how ANY other business actually runs, and then apply that to the web.

                  Not only will this become easier for you - you'll begin to see just how "easy" it truly is for us in comparison to a brick/mortar operation.

                  Take care,

                  -Chris
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                  • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                    Originally Posted by chris_surfrider View Post

                    Stephen,

                    I've bolded a few things above that I'm going to address.

                    There is NO problem with simple things that work. Of course there's a learning curve, and yes, it takes practice, blood, sweat, tears and all the rest of it. That is a given with anything that you want to excel with.

                    But - as I'll address below - it doesn't *all* have to rely on you. This is where most people shoot themselves in the foot.

                    Having the funds to pay affiliates for performance? With ClickBank?

                    Well, if you really want me to explain that one I will, but...

                    Moving on - and this is the big issue:

                    You seem to be myopic in the way you view your business. I've seen from this thread and others that you're structuring your business in such a way where there's really no outside promotional help.

                    In another thread, you mentioned that training affiliates was a waste of time, and that you do better on your own, etc.

                    And in this one, you mention that your writing is what saves you.

                    Let me be very clear about something here. Entrepreneurship is the skill of creating an ENTERPRISE. Finding others with talent, using other people's resources, and so on.

                    That's what business IS.

                    If everything just depends on you, then essentially, what you've got is a job.

                    How do you think ANYONE starts a "real" business?

                    They apply for a loan from the bank, or from relatives, or whoever, so they can actually try to make it work. And it's hard. Damn hard.

                    Hell, my brother built a hot-tub retail business that now has multiple stores in BC. He started out his garage and slowly built it up over time. He worked a full time job for several years simultaneously to float the boat, as well as flipping a few houses, just to make it all fly.

                    He literally just quit his job a short while ago.

                    That's what it takes.

                    And yes, his process was simple as well. It's not rocket science.

                    And dude - let's make something crystal clear: I ain't no silver-spoon fed kid who started out on daddy's bankroll.

                    I had nothing. NOTHING. For two years.

                    Somehow I got by selling stuff on ebay and making chump change off the net.

                    We've all had our proving grounds, but that doesn't make the simplicity of this any less apparent.

                    The reason why I was broke was because I was doing something WRONG.

                    When I started promoting stuff that actually converted well, and then later started selling my own similar products - I was doing something RIGHT.


                    It's not about how "hard" you work or even your own talents.

                    It's about recognizing what does work, and then making that work for you.

                    How you run your business is up to you, but I would caution you that this style of thinking, where so much depends on YOU - is faltered and severely limited.

                    You need to step back and think about how you can build an enterprise, rather than a service.

                    Consider how ANY other business actually runs, and then apply that to the web.

                    Not only will this become easier for you - you'll begin to see just how "easy" it truly is for us in comparison to a brick/mortar operation.

                    Take care,

                    -Chris

                    Point well taken Chris. Oh, and by the way, I never said that my business
                    model was the best or the most efficient in the world, but I can tell you
                    this much about it...it works for me and is cheap as hell. If you knew what
                    my monthly expenses were you'd laugh. I'm sure they're a fraction of
                    most marketers making similar incomes. Sure, it's more work, but I'm a
                    cheap SOB and proud of it.

                    And I'll never apologize for being who I am.

                    Great discussion here by the way.
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                    • Profile picture of the author chris_surfrider
                      That's cool man - whatever does it for ya.

                      Just make sure you're building something you can sell.

                      -Chris
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                • Profile picture of the author Joe Giannetti
                  Well I didnt see ONE person thanking Todd for his post.

                  You guys are too busy hacking him to shreds...

                  I definetly have seen worse posts than this

                  Thanx for the post Todd.....It is worthwile information.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                    Originally Posted by Joe Giannetti View Post

                    Well I didnt see ONE person thanking Todd for his post.

                    You guys are too busy hacking him to shreds...

                    I definetly have seen worse posts than this

                    Thanx for the post Todd.....It is worthwile information.
                    You're right, this is great stuff for an intermediate marketer, but as a
                    starting point, I'm not so sure I'd want to begin like this. But that's just my
                    personal opinion.

                    I am in no way suggesting that Todd's strategy is right or wrong. I just
                    think it's geared more to people who've been at this a while and don't
                    quite have great success but have some. A total newb? My opinion is that
                    this would be very hard to pull off and I stand by it.

                    But then again, I've been wrong about other things so why not this?

                    Todd, thanks for the post. By itself, it's solid fundamental marketing.
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                • Profile picture of the author hardline
                  Great strategy provided you hae built out a backend: $197, $497, $697 +...

                  I would say that the first step to do is create the first $79 product and givve away 75% commissions. In the meantime while affiliates are promoting it and bringing in sales

                  BUILD OUT THE BACKEND!

                  So here's the steps...

                  1. Create the front end $79 or even cheaper product ($17-$37). More buyers at a lower price.

                  2. Create a larger big ticket product ($197 - $497)

                  3. Create continuity membership site at $19 - $49/month to push buyers into the program.

                  No how to maximize this strategy?

                  Keep creating inexpensive front end products! This will drive more BUYERS into the sales process to upsell affiliate products or your higher ticket items and membership site.

                  Rinse and repeat.

                  Awesome strategy Todd.

                  Chris
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                  • Profile picture of the author kf
                    Good discussion - yea or nay, interesting points.

                    I'm going to go out on a limb here and assume that I think I know what Todd intended - to let people know that it's valuable to look for the bigger picture and, for this particular business model, how you can take less on the front end to build a viable business.

                    It's a valuable concept to grasp in spite of whether others agree or disagree with the specifics of this approach. Focus on building a business and a solid customer base and not just quick money-makers that may not contribute longterm to your goals.

                    I agree with most of Chris's comments also. And interpret them as this --- yes, it will take work. Yes, it DOES work. Perhaps it won't be easy, but once you learn the mechanics, the steps will be simple.

                    Just b/c something is difficult for one person, does not mean you shouldn't attempt it *if* you have the right information. (Bad information can kill ya.)

                    Todd started a great discussion, made some valid points and came back smiling after every round.
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                    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
                      Hi,

                      Sometimes the greatest gold you can find can be contained within what looks like a messed up, unresolved discussion.

                      Why do I say this?

                      Well, if you really do study this forum and the minds within it, you will know that the concept presented by the OP has been discussed and worked and re-worked for a long time in IM. In fact, it gets re-worked in many of the major IM launches.

                      For example, if you are familiar with the war room you will see that Allen posted about this in his 'hot reports' post. You will also see that Chris Surfrider works on the same lines (via his posts in the war room AND if you have experienced his current system).

                      You may have also noticed them talking about 'upping the ante' and giving 200% commissions where there is a particularly lucrative back-end - ala Eben Pagan.

                      For me, my focus on this thread intensified when Chris and Steven discussed their opposing views on the 'simpleness' of online business. I can see both sides and they both make great points.

                      I think that if someone builds a business around themselves (a little too much, IE avoiding outsourcing), and over a period of years that business grows, then when someone comes along and says, "your business has (or will, very soon) hit a ceiling where it cannot grow further because it's growth is directly related to and relies upon your personal daily efforts" - the problem is that that person doesn't realise that they have grown that business despite the business being built around themselves.

                      To them, all they see is that what they have done so far, has got them where they are and if they were to try and change it, it could cause it's downfall. To understand this, you have to ask yourself why the person built their business in that manner in the first place - which is often to do with their experiences and what they are comfortable (or uncomfortable) with.

                      For example, if someone has had a few really bad experiences trying to grow their business via outsourcing or employees, which caused stress and losses which put their whole livelihood at risk, then it is understandable when that person decides 'that way doesn't work for me.'

                      But others would say that a better conclusion is to apply determination and decide that it's a part of the process that definitely isn't easy (because it's about dealing with people), and that one must expect obstacles and keep fighting until they find a way to make it work - because it's that important.

                      On the other side of the coin, I think that some other people are correct in saying that the whole system is actually really simple, but the one mistake they make when they espouse this view is that they don't realise that they posess special talents and abilities that many others are a long way from posessing and may never have.

                      The ability to see things in a simple way, to be able to explain them to others in a simple way and because of this to be able to boldly act upon the system and implement it is a special talent that I only see ingrained in only a handful of people out of the many thousands that are active warriors.

                      It is simple. But once mastered by an individual, so is anything. They just have to remember that before they mastered it, it was as wonder-inducing as a wide-eyed pre-toddler in a pushchair watching a five year old running, skipping, balancing, hand-standing and jumping without even thinking about it.

                      This is an interesting and helpful thread, thanks for all the contributions which I am going to ponder on for a while more, as some of the problems presented and discussed here affect my own business activities, and relate directly to some of the obstacles and barriers that I am in the process of busting through.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Ricter
                        Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

                        Hi,

                        Sometimes the greatest gold you can find can be contained within what looks like a messed up, unresolved discussion.
                        ...
                        On the other side of the coin, I think that some other people are correct in saying that the whole system is actually really simple, but the one mistake they make when they espouse this view is that they don't realise that they posess special talents and abilities that many others are a long way from posessing and may never have.
                        ...
                        This is an interesting and helpful thread, thanks for all the contributions which I am going to ponder on for a while more, as some of the problems presented and discussed here affect my own business activities, and relate directly to some of the obstacles and barriers that I am in the process of busting through.
                        Roger, I'm going to assume you didn't mean that the former type of business operator, in this case Steven, doesn't "possess special talents and abilities that many others are a long way from possessing and may never have." Many people prefer to do it on their own, and limit it to themselves, for personal and practical reasons. They have a name: sole proprietors.

                        Then we have the latter type of business operator, Chris, with his outstanding points about "enterprise". (Thank you, Chris, I took your point of view to heart and began my day with outsourcing.... my face!) What many assume, incorrectly, to be the only real kind of business.

                        Still others may also possess unique talents and abilities that others may never have, and choose to deliver those, again for personal and practical reasons, during an 8-hour day. Why? Because they simply don't like marketing and administration, two essential parts of both the sole proprietorship and the enterprise. Even outsourcing everything requires administration at a minimum.

                        I submit that there is nothing inherently better about ANY of the three ways of making a living, though I realize that on this particular forum, the first two are heavily favored over the last.
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                        • Profile picture of the author ExRat
                          Hi Ricter,

                          Roger, I'm going to assume you didn't mean that the former type of business operator, in this case Steven, doesn't "possess special talents and abilities that many others are a long way from possessing and may never have."
                          I was deliberately vague in terms of applying my points to specific individuals.

                          To clarify what I was trying to say there, it was that the ability to see complex things as simple (that the person hasn't yet mastered) and therefore steam ahead and apply them (in the context of what was discussed) is rare. Therefore, if anyone, I was referring to someone like Chris.

                          I submit that there is nothing inherently better about ANY of the three ways of making a living, though I realize that on this particular forum, the first two are heavily favored over the last.
                          Yes, obviously many of us are biased (and as an exrat I have seen both sides) and feel that the elements of freedom (for example - ability to manage your finances before paying taxes) make the first two inherently better than being an employee - which is why most employees would prefer to be the boss, and most bosses wouldn't prefer to be the employee.
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                          Roger Davis

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                          • Profile picture of the author Ricter
                            Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

                            Hi Ricter,

                            Yes, obviously many of us are biased (and as an exrat I have seen both sides) and feel that the elements of freedom (for example - ability to manage your finances before paying taxes) make the first two inherently better than being an employee - which is why most employees would prefer to be the boss, and most bosses wouldn't prefer to be the employee.
                            Yes, in the end one must conclude that it is simply a battle, an animal struggle if you will, to dominate and have others perform the disagreeable labors that are a necessary part of living, for you. That's what more and more money is all about, commanding more and more labor and goods.


                            By the way, back on topic, giving away something of value to get more traffic and expose them to your upsells and backend (no pun) goods, if I'm getting the gist here, sounds a lot like a "door crasher special" to me.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                        Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

                        Hi,

                        Sometimes the greatest gold you can find can be contained within what looks like a messed up, unresolved discussion.

                        Why do I say this?

                        Well, if you really do study this forum and the minds within it, you will know that the concept presented by the OP has been discussed and worked and re-worked for a long time in IM. In fact, it gets re-worked in many of the major IM launches.

                        For example, if you are familiar with the war room you will see that Allen posted about this in his 'hot reports' post. You will also see that Chris Surfrider works on the same lines (via his posts in the war room AND if you have experienced his current system).

                        You may have also noticed them talking about 'upping the ante' and giving 200% commissions where there is a particularly lucrative back-end - ala Eben Pagan.

                        For me, my focus on this thread intensified when Chris and Steven discussed their opposing views on the 'simpleness' of online business. I can see both sides and they both make great points.

                        I think that if someone builds a business around themselves (a little too much, IE avoiding outsourcing), and over a period of years that business grows, then when someone comes along and says, "your business has (or will, very soon) hit a ceiling where it cannot grow further because it's growth is directly related to and relies upon your personal daily efforts" - the problem is that that person doesn't realise that they have grown that business despite the business being built around themselves.

                        To them, all they see is that what they have done so far, has got them where they are and if they were to try and change it, it could cause it's downfall. To understand this, you have to ask yourself why the person built their business in that manner in the first place - which is often to do with their experiences and what they are comfortable (or uncomfortable) with.

                        For example, if someone has had a few really bad experiences trying to grow their business via outsourcing or employees, which caused stress and losses which put their whole livelihood at risk, then it is understandable when that person decides 'that way doesn't work for me.'

                        But others would say that a better conclusion is to apply determination and decide that it's a part of the process that definitely isn't easy (because it's about dealing with people), and that one must expect obstacles and keep fighting until they find a way to make it work - because it's that important.

                        On the other side of the coin, I think that some other people are correct in saying that the whole system is actually really simple, but the one mistake they make when they espouse this view is that they don't realise that they posess special talents and abilities that many others are a long way from posessing and may never have.

                        The ability to see things in a simple way, to be able to explain them to others in a simple way and because of this to be able to boldly act upon the system and implement it is a special talent that I only see ingrained in only a handful of people out of the many thousands that are active warriors.

                        It is simple. But once mastered by an individual, so is anything. They just have to remember that before they mastered it, it was as wonder-inducing as a wide-eyed pre-toddler in a pushchair watching a five year old running, skipping, balancing, hand-standing and jumping without even thinking about it.

                        This is an interesting and helpful thread, thanks for all the contributions which I am going to ponder on for a while more, as some of the problems presented and discussed here affect my own business activities, and relate directly to some of the obstacles and barriers that I am in the process of busting through.

                        Roger, great post. I'm still waiting for that debate on the meaning of life
                        between you and Paul Myers.

                        You come up with some very interesting analogies and perspectives.

                        Remind me never to get into a battle of wits with you because I am most
                        definitely unarmed
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                        • Profile picture of the author ExRat
                          Hi Steven,

                          Thanks.

                          Remind me never to get into a battle of wits with you because I am most definitely unarmed
                          Ahh, stop being so modest. I'm fully armed for a battle of twits.

                          I'm still waiting for that debate on the meaning of life between you and Paul Myers.
                          You keep saying that, and I keep replying that Paul is way out of my league. I'm a duffer like you Steven. Unless, of course, when you say 'the meaning of life' you mean the Monty Python film, in which case I could probably hold my ground.

                          I found the thread and the discussion of 'simpleness' interesting. Read into that what you will
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                          Roger Davis

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                • Profile picture of the author jbsmith
                  Hey Todd - you are right about taking the time and effort to develop a product with a $100 value - once you've done that, there are all kinds of options open to you.

                  Personally, I have found that it's better creating a product that really hits the mark with a decent commission of between 55-60% (depending on the niche) and then bundle upsells and back-end sales on top of that.

                  For instance, one of my products does an upsell offer when my prospects click the order button - most upgrade no problem. Then yes, I do capture all of my customer names and follow-on sell to them.

                  Of course you do have to test the most attractive commission - for my markets it's not likely that there would be a big difference in affiliates if I changed my commission from 60% to 75%, but hey...it's always worth a try.

                  Jeff
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                • Profile picture of the author TimothyW
                  As I understand it, for something to even be considered a pyramid scheme, it must be more than two tiers deep. The $7 script doesn't (+ CANNOT!) go that deep.

                  Just because the person at the top has many, many people under him/her (but each + every one is only 1 tier down), doesn't make it a ponzi scheme.

                  Also, the amount of $ or % the top person gets does not make it a pyramid either. The law doesn't mind how much profit you make -- in fact, even the IRS INSISTS that you make a profit!

                  Greed is good.

                  -- TW
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                • Profile picture of the author rapidscc
                  Hello Y'all,

                  The spirit of the thread has transcended us all. It went past a proposed system, to how things should be done, to how things really work.

                  It also showed us some of the greatest experiences "In Pursuit of Happiness". :-) right steve?

                  In all things, there's right and there's wrong, some part of the information will be right, some part will be wrong. To some it will be acceptable, to some it will not be.

                  One thing is certain though. We can bet our Arse that if we really work hard and connect to our peers we can learn and make it in IM.

                  Im a newbie, I haven't earned anything yet. I've been here a week.

                  I've been researching internet marketing extensibly for more than one month now. The different systems, the different methods and techniques. What Dot.com to go to and yet I haven't earned a SINGLE CENT.

                  But it's ok, coz being here just for a week has raised my spirit. I work double time now. And in a matter of days I was able to put an article in the first page of google for my keywords. Though to be honest all I have in adsense is a mere 1.57 dollars but then I wouldnt have done that without learning in the threads here.

                  My final .02 here is :

                  1. We now know why "A KILLER Traffic Strategy is used only by a few people"

                  2. In anything, in every worthwhile endeavor, we must practice focus, patience and persistence. Who knows maybe in 5 years we get to earn 6 figures too. :-)
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                  • Profile picture of the author Fabian Tan
                    Now let's get down to specific strategies

                    Here is a killer strategy I learnt from one of the top marketers:

                    Step 1 - Create a lead capture page (as per normal)

                    Step 2 - Create a forced continuity product (free cd, free book etc) as the one-time offer. Charge $1 for it or free (except for shipping costs) and add in a trial membership to a physical newsletter. Charge $27-$37 per month after that. Build a list after the sale.

                    Step 3 - Give affiliates 60-75% commissions on the forced continuity sale. They'll be all over it to promote it!

                    Here is another strategy:

                    Step 1 - Create a lead capture page (as per normal)

                    Step 2 - Give affiliates $0.50-$1 per lead to generate leads for you.

                    Step 3 (same as above) - Create a forced continuity product (free cd, free book etc) as the one-time offer. Charge $1 for it or free (except for shipping costs) and add in a trial membership to a physical newsletter. Charge $27-$37 per month after that. Build a list after the sale.

                    Step 4 (optional) - include an affiliate program with 60-75% commissions as well for the forced continuity membership.

                    Both tactics will build a subscribers list and a buyers list REALLY quickly

                    Fabian
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                • Profile picture of the author Todd Brown
                  Hey Steve... thanks for sharing your thoughts in this thread.

                  I think it's important to clarify that just because a strategy is simple doesn't mean it doesn't take work. That's why I stressed in the original post that if someone isn't willing to do the work this wasn't for them.

                  Also, I completely agree that most newbies shoot out of the gate and put all of their eggs into their one front-end product. And that's exactly why I feel it's important to share with them how much of a mistake that is from a long-term buisiness building persepctive.

                  In other words, I think to say a newbie doesn't know enough to create backend products... so let's just talk to them about front-ends, does them a massive disservice. As a savvy marketer, you know that not having a backends is a huge mistake. So, why not share that with them upfront and get them started the right way??

                  Just my perspective on how I teach...

                  Take care,
                  ~Todd Brown :-)
                  Todd Brown’s TheSneakPeekBlog.com
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                  • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                    Originally Posted by Todd Brown View Post

                    Hey Steve... thanks for sharing your thoughts in this thread.

                    I think it's important to clarify that just because a strategy is simple doesn't mean it doesn't take work. That's why I stressed in the original post that if someone isn't willing to do the work this wasn't for them.

                    Also, I completely agree that most newbies shoot out of the gate and put all of their eggs into their one front-end product. And that's exactly why I feel it's important to share with them how much of a mistake that is from a long-term buisiness building persepctive.

                    In other words, I think to say a newbie doesn't know enough to create backend products... so let's just talk to them about front-ends, does them a massive disservice. As a savvy marketer, you know that not having a backends is a huge mistake. So, why not share that with them upfront and get them started the right way??

                    Just my perspective on how I teach...

                    Take care,
                    ~Todd Brown :-)
                    Todd Brown’s TheSneakPeekBlog.com

                    Todd, having a backend product is great. Anybody who doesn't do it is
                    losing out on a fortune. But expecting a newb to come out with a backend
                    the size of Texas right out of the gate is expecting a lot.

                    An easier approach?

                    This is just an example off the top of my head.

                    Front End Product

                    Blogging Made Easy - $17

                    Back End Products

                    Article Marketing & Blogs $37
                    Niche Marketing & Blogs $47

                    This is a much easier and doable approach, will result in more sales because
                    of the lower price points and will ultimately build up a good reputation
                    for the person. They can then come out with more products in this price
                    range until finally, after they've built a great rep, they can come out with
                    the killer backend product, the ecourse or home study course or whatever.

                    That's how I would do it if I were starting all over again. I'd never shoot for
                    the moon right out of the gate.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Todd Brown
                      Hey Steve... thanks again for sharing your thoughts.

                      I completely disagree with you.

                      The volume of traffic and conversions a newbie would need to generate to make any real money selling a $17 product will lead to a heck of a lot more frustration than selling a $59 or even $79 product.

                      As well, it's not any harder to create a $79 product than it is to create a $17 product. And, I'm NOT talking about creating a product "the size of Texas", like you said.

                      Lastly, if we look at the other top earners online, how many started with a $17 product?? I didn't and don't know anybody else that did.

                      We'll have to agree to disagree on this one...

                      Take care,
                      ~Todd Brown
                      Todd Brown’s TheSneakPeekBlog.com

                      P.S. Thanks for the lively exchange. I never anticipated this much participation. It's nice to see.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Simon_Sezs
                        Originally Posted by Todd Brown View Post

                        Hey Steve... thanks again for sharing your thoughts.

                        I completely disagree with you.

                        The volume of traffic and conversions a newbie would need to generate to make any real money selling a $17 product will lead to a heck of a lot more frustration than selling a $59 or even $79 product.

                        As well, it's not any harder to create a $79 product than it is to create a $17 product. And, I'm NOT talking about creating a product "the size of Texas", like you said.

                        Lastly, if we look at the other top earners online, how many started with a $17 product?? I didn't and don't know anybody else that did.

                        We'll have to agree to disagree on this one...

                        Take care,
                        ~Todd Brown
                        Todd Brown’s TheSneakPeekBlog.com

                        P.S. Thanks for the lively exchange. I never anticipated this much participation. It's nice to see.
                        I have to agree that most are "low-balling" with the thought that if they sell their product cheap, they will get more sales. What usually happens instead is that they don't have the volume necessary to compensate for it.

                        As far as newbies are concerned, I seriously doubt most newbies coming out of the gate could put together something worth $10, nevermind $50+...most who are new are just regurgitating information already out there...hell...even most of the intermediate marketers are regurgitating information....heck...never mind...sell your stuff for $50+ even if you don't know what you are talking about

                        I can't believe that people flamed the original poster so quick. Most of the advanced marketers know that backend sales will always outpace frontend sales. Surfrider Chris stated it best when he said a business is an enterprise.

                        Most newbie marketers think that simply building one product is good enough. In reality, there is something to be said for a good plan...you know...having your autoresponder set up for a couple months to a year and a few backend reports to either warm up your growing list or move through your funnel.

                        The benefits of using this method is that you are building a list that is proven to buy something....and that, to me, is golden and much more valuable that a list made from giving away a free report.

                        You are essentially leveraging your affiliate's lists and cherry picking their best prospects.
                        Signature
                        "Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing." Ben Franklin
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                • Profile picture of the author TheMagicShow
                  OP you will never please everyone with your posts, you laid out a plan that some see as a bust and others can see what you are saying and they give you credit for trying to be helpful.
                  Signature

                  " You can either give a man a fish and feed him for a day OR teach him how to catch a fish and it will feed him for a lifetime"

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              • Profile picture of the author AndrewCavanagh
                The strategy of giving away high commissions on a very high quality product to generate a large list of buyers definitely works.

                And creating a front end sales process like this so you can sell back end products is also a strategy proven many times over.

                If you're offering an immediate upsell and giving away 75% commissions on your front end product (clickbank) or 100% commissions ($7 secrets script) then you'll make your profits on that immediate upsell and from the list you generate.

                Keep in mind that the money is in the list you create and a list of people who've bought your product is many times more valuable than a list of people who've opted in for a free gift of some kind.

                Creating a front end product that will sell well and that affiliates will be happy to promote may be more than a little difficult...especially for a newbie.

                But the strategy of creating a high converting product and giving away generous affiliate commissions does work exceptionally well.

                A lower price might make more sense too because you get more buyers coming in the front end and affiliates with smaller lists are more likely to make sales immediately on a lower priced product (say around $20).

                Kindest regards,
                Andrew Cavanagh
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  • Profile picture of the author Scott Million
    Originally Posted by Todd Brown View Post

    Hey guys... I've got another really effective strategy for you to generate traffic with a rarely used, but very effective, method.

    If you're willing to do a little work this strategy will put you on the map very quickly. If you're not, this is not for you.

    Anyway, here it is...

    1. Create a fantastic information product. One that you would be extremely proud of and one that you would feel comfortable selling on ClickBank for $129 or so.

    2. Put the product up for sale on ClickBank, only make the price $87 or even $79. This is an opportunity to for you to over-deliver value when the product is purchased.

    3. GIVE AWAY MAX COMMISSION TO CB AFFILIATES. This is the most important step in the process as you'll see in a second.

    4. Make sure you have a name capture page set up to capture the names and email addresses of all customers that purchase the product.

    5. Repeat this process every 6 weeks.

    A couple of things to point out about why this little method is a great business building/traffic tactic:

    First, because affiliates are most interested in commissions, your offer of 100% commission on CB will entice more affiliates to promote your product. More affiliates obviously equals more sales (assuming you have a sales letter that converts).

    Second, because this strategy is based on the idea of having a rock-solid backend of products in place, and you are over-delivering value on these front-ends, customers will be prone to purchase more from you with your backend offers. So, this method not only gets you front-end customers at truly NO COST, but it gets you customers that will convert at a higher rate on your backend offers.

    Lastly, hopefully you can see how this customer acquisition strategy allows you to build your business WITHOUT having to spend money on paid traffic strategies - i.e. Adwords, banners, CPA, CPM mailings, etc. Personally, I recommend using EVERY profitable traffic-generation method available to you... the keyword being 'profitable'... but with this method you're getting targeted, backend CUSTOMER leads, who've paid for your front-end product, at ZERO COST. In essence, you're using your product and the commission on the product as the payment for affiliates. And, the outcome... you're getting highly-qualified CUSTOMER leads... people who have paid money... and you're not shelling out any money to make it happen.

    Do this even just a couple of times, with a couple of top-quality front-end products on CB, and you'll have a front-end, customer acquisition machine in place!!

    Enjoy,
    ~Todd Brown
    TheSneakPeekBlog.com
    This is the kind of stuff that caused me to bang my head against the computer monitor for a year before I finally figured it out...and I can't say I haven't been guilty of this one when I first started here, but please don't share techniques that you haven't implemented yourself...

    OR MAKE IT CHRYSTAL CLEAR that this is theory and not tested...

    How can you explain this method is so great if the #1 selling product in 3 of Clickbank's top categories are offering 60% commissions...?

    #1 for B2B - Google Snatch 2 (60%)
    #1 for Money and Employment & Marketing and Ads - Commission Blueprint (60%)

    Noobs, careful who you follow on the WF...
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    • Profile picture of the author Todd Brown
      Hey Ken... I totally agree with you... most internet marketers will NOT take the time to create a killer front end product. But, that is also why most internet marketers (info-marketers) won't make any real money online.

      To say there is a problem with the marketing funnel because people won't do it means the only good ideas are the ones average internet marketers will actually implement. That couldn't be further from the truth.

      Every other top IM'er will tell you that the strategies and tactics that most marketers aren't willing to do... whether it be out of laziness or lack of motivation... are the EXACT strategies that will allow you to stand out and dominate a marketplace.

      Enjoy,
      ~Todd Brown
      http://TheSneakPeekBlog.com
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      • Profile picture of the author Ken Preuss
        Originally Posted by Todd Brown View Post

        Hey Ken... I totally agree with you... most internet marketers will NOT take the time to create a killer front end product. But, that is also why most internet marketers (info-marketers) won't make any real money online.

        To say there is a problem with the marketing funnel because people won't do it means the only good ideas are the ones average internet marketers will actually implement. That couldn't be further from the truth.

        Every other top IM'er will tell you that the strategies and tactics that most marketers aren't willing to do... whether it be out of laziness or lack of motivation... are the EXACT strategies that will allow you to stand out and dominate a marketplace.

        Enjoy,
        ~Todd Brown
        WordPress Error
        Todd,

        To clarify my point, yes it's a problem with the person and not the plan. I think we both agree that this is most often the case than the opposite.

        Ken
        Signature

        Coming soon for all you IM junkies... The Internet Daily Show

        A Secret to Success: Making serious money online or offline is not complex unto itself - we're the ones who complicate it. Simply sell them what they are already buying.

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    • Profile picture of the author Todd Brown
      Hey Scott... thanks for the reply on the post.

      Most merchants on CB are not using their products to funnel qualified leads into a backend sales system. Outside of possibly the IM marketplace, the product most merchants are selling on CB is their entire funnel, hence the need for them to try profit off of the front-end. It's a different "business-building" STRATEGY altogether.

      Remember, I didn't say anything about trying to get the #1 selling product on CB. This entire strategy is based around funneling qualified front-end customer leads into a higher-priced backend funnel. Again, different STRATEGY with differnet desired outcome.

      Enjoy,
      ~Todd Brown :-)
      The Sneak Peek Blog

      P.S. Check out the few other posts I've put up on the WF and you'll see everything I talk about is what we're doing in our companies everyday. I'm totally with you... I'm not about following theory or sharing it. Thanks again for you reply. :-)
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      • Profile picture of the author Scott Million
        Originally Posted by Todd Brown View Post

        Remember, I didn't say anything about trying to get the #1 selling product on CB. This entire strategy is based around funneling qualified front-end customer leads into a higher-priced backend funnel. Again, different STRATEGY with differnet desired outcome.
        I'm well aware of the process. There's several holes in this that don't add up.

        "Higher-priced backend funnel" - So you've already sold the customer a $79 or $87 (numbers you provided) product that you've made $0.00 on...now you're going to upsell them on several products that pour into the $87+ range. Now, for these 'newbies' following...they either have to create backend products that are worth more than the one they currently sell (and get $0.00 for...) or link to affiliate offers priced at over $87 so they (hopefully) get paid...

        How is this better or easier for noobies rather than selling a front end product for less or paying themselves a percentage of the sale? Whether it's $7 or $100, isn't the purpose of the front end to identify as many 'buying leads' as possible? Why narrow your market to the BIG SPENDERS?!

        The ONLY advantage of this "system" that I see is the perceived assumption that 100% commissions on high priced products will create an instant swarm of affiliates...and unless you've done this with a product then it's nothing more than an interesting idea, not a recommended blueprint for amateurs to follow and 100% guesswork...

        Also, this is same concept as giving away Master Resell Rights and a salespage template...
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        • Profile picture of the author chris_surfrider
          Yes, the guy made a few technical mistakes (re: 75%) and no, this isn't the most viable strategy for newbies...

          ...but for a method that many of us DO use to generate more traffic than most would ever think possible - we sure are ripping on him, don't you think?

          And on top of that, Todd's being blamed for suggesting a high sale price on one reply, too high of an aff commission in another, too LOW an aff commission in another (for not paying out on every backend sale for life), etc. etc.

          What's funny is that this is practically the exact strategy that the major earners use.

          Let's not throw the baby out with the bath-water...

          -Chris
          Signature

          Making 6 Figures From Affiliate Marketing is Easier Than You Think. Here's Proof:

          http://www.TheLazyMarketer.com

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          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
            Originally Posted by chris_surfrider View Post

            Yes, the guy made a few technical mistakes (re: 75%) and no, this isn't the most viable strategy for newbies...

            ...but for a method that many of us DO use to generate more traffic than most would ever think possible - we sure are ripping on him, don't you think?

            And on top of that, Todd's being blamed for suggesting a high sale price on one reply, too high of an aff commission in another, too LOW an aff commission in another (for not paying out on every backend sale for life), etc. etc.

            What's funny is that this is practically the exact strategy that the major earners use.

            Let's not throw the baby out with the bath-water...

            -Chris

            Chris, I got no problem with this strategy in itself. Tons of people are
            doing it. But he's addressing this to people who are in no position to do
            it. A newbie doesn't have a prayer and somebody with any kind of success
            is either already doing this or is doing other things making this strategy
            one that they won't want to use.

            I personally will not give away 75% of a high end product to begin with.
            I'll do it with a $47 product in order to get somebody into my funnel to
            sell a $127 product, but I'm not giving away the farm right off the bat.

            The strategy in itself is fine. It's just not for newbs and for those who are
            using it, well, they already know.
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          • Profile picture of the author ctutt
            Ooooh! What a discussion! Everyone has a valid thought. Let that be "temper" to your metal, whomever you are who would try this.
            Charles
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            • Profile picture of the author chris_surfrider
              Chris, I got no problem with this strategy in itself. Tons of people are
              doing it. But he's addressing this to people who are in no position to do
              it. A newbie doesn't have a prayer and somebody with any kind of success
              is either already doing this or is doing other things making this strategy
              one that they won't want to use.

              I personally will not give away 75% of a high end product to begin with.
              I'll do it with a $47 product in order to get somebody into my funnel to
              sell a $127 product, but I'm not giving away the farm right off the bat.

              The strategy in itself is fine. It's just not for newbs and for those who are
              using it, well, they already know.
              I don't see anywhere in the OP's post that this strategy is addressed to newbies.

              The WF readership is varied.

              It's not just newbies.

              The ONLY thing that matters is lifetime client value here.

              And I don't care what anyone "personally thinks", even myself, when it comes to price points and commission payouts because guess what - EVERY MARKET IS TOTALLY DIFFERENT.

              If giving away 75% on a high end product where 30% of your new clients are joining an advanced coaching program or complimentary service gets you TWICE the traffic as when you give away 50% on the front-end, then you're insane not to do it.

              I know of a niche right now where there's services that will pay out literally $250 or more per sign up, straight CPA. That could be just one of several backend offerings, and there's lots of digital products in this niche that DO payout as much as possible on the front end.

              As someone else mentioned, many of the biggest corporations purposely lose money on the front end as an acquisition cost. They're not stupid, folks. There's a reason why they're multi-million dollar cash-flows keep on growing.

              If someone discovers that offering a higher commission creates more traffic and exposure (and usually this is exponential), then don't you think they'd do it if their lifetime customer value (and overall exposure) would geometrically increase?

              If you don't believe me, why don't you check out some of the OTHER categories in the CB marketplace.

              There's more going on here than just IM.

              Here's a hint - take a look at the Society & Culture category and see if you can tell me why the #1 listed product has a gravity of 400+ while its closest competing service is a fraction of that...

              (It has something to do with visitor value and commission payout...)

              -Chris
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              Making 6 Figures From Affiliate Marketing is Easier Than You Think. Here's Proof:

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        • Profile picture of the author Todd Brown
          Hey Scott... thanks again for the reply.

          I think you're a bit off the mark.

          Giving away "Master Resell Rights and a salespage template" is obviously a completely different marketing strategy than leveraging the power of a strong affiliate base.

          How many of the top earners online are giving away master resell rights and a salespage template compared to those of us that are doing it by leveraging affiliates? None of the folks I'm friends with use the "master resell rights" method... at least not anymore.

          Also, it seems that you have a flaw in your thinking about backend products.

          Why do you feel backend products are more "difficult" to create than front-ends?

          Done right you can easily create a single backend product and extract out several smaller front-ends directly from it.

          I think you're under-estimating what a "newbie" can and can't do, and I think it does them a disservice to steer them away from true business-building strategies and tactics.

          Why steer newbies towards making a fast buck online when you can truly help them get started building a long-term business and income for themselves with the proper way to do things??

          I wish someone had shared the "good stuff" with me when I was a "newbie" and not just the "newbie" stuff.

          Enjoy,
          ~Todd Brown
          Todd Brown’s TheSneakPeekBlog.com

          P.S. Just to clarify... I didn't remove anything from the original post about newbies. I never had anything in there to begin with. Take care. :-)
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          • Profile picture of the author Scott Million
            ...this is a perfect strategy for newbies because it doesn't require a large investment... except for maybe some web graphics. This is exactly how a newbie can leverage the power of CB affiliates.
            Oops, you're right... it's in your second post.

            Why do you feel backend products are more "difficult" to create than front-ends?
            Not sure where you obtained this impression... If you have to overdeliver on your front end product as you mentioned above and then you have to sell a higher priced backend as you mentioned above then either you're putting more work into the backend or you're not delivering the same level of quality as the front end product.

            So are you recommending to up the price and drop the bar on quality or create two masterpieces?

            I wish someone had shared the "good stuff" with me when I was a "newbie" and not just the "newbie" stuff.
            That's the issue... you seem like a nice guy but this whole thing has 'morphed' throughout this thread. High-level 'this is how you do it' posts like these are what crippled my growth for almost a full year (definitely my fault 100% for listening w/o doing the background checks, but then again I didn't know jack about IM then)...and I feel obligated to challenge advice aimed at beginners, especially from someone who didn't know CB didn't offer 100% commissions to affiliates...which clearly indicates you haven't done this yet.
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            • Profile picture of the author chris_surfrider
              Not sure where you obtained this impression... If you have to overdeliver on your front end product as you mentioned above and then you have to sell a higher priced backend as you mentioned above then either you're putting more work into the backend or you're not delivering the same level of quality as the front end product.

              So are you recommending to up the price and drop the bar on quality or creating two masterpieces?
              Scott,

              I don't know Todd or anything like that from a hole in the ground, but I DO know this strategy, and I know it well.

              Products - even GREAT products - can be created quickly and easily.

              What matters is how you frame things and HOW you teach. For example, you could record an interview with an expert where you totally grill them, and then sell that.

              It would take you a few hours, tops - and the value could be very high, depending on the questions asked and the info shared.

              Also - who says your backend product needs to be more than your frontend? Or vice-versa?

              There are NO "rules". You simply do what works.

              And on top of that - the key here is that you're building a CUSTOMER list of buyers.

              Your backend could actually be solely affiliate offers, and you'd still make a killing.

              -Chris
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              Making 6 Figures From Affiliate Marketing is Easier Than You Think. Here's Proof:

              http://www.TheLazyMarketer.com

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  • Profile picture of the author marilyne
    This is an interesting thought. Thanks and have a good day
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    • Profile picture of the author samcarson
      When I started online, I too believed that it is very easy to make an online income, after two years, I am still struggling. I did outsource some things, however I spent a lot of time and frustration managing the outsource staff. When starting new like Wagenhiem said we dont have a lot of money, so I picked one of the lowest bidders and literally went thru hell.

      So in conclusion, if you are a newbie with a big $$$ you will do fine. If you have more time than money, you can still succeed by working hard with articles promotion etc assuming you are good at writing.

      Sam
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeffrey Louis
    Todd you just can't tell a newbie:

    "Create a fantastic information product. One that you would be extremely proud of and one that you would feel comfortable selling on ClickBank for $129 or so."

    Then make an effective sales letter!

    good luck newbies. internet marketing isn't this difficult.
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    • Profile picture of the author chris_surfrider
      Originally Posted by Jeffrey Louis View Post

      Todd you just can't tell a newbie:

      "Create a fantastic information product. One that you would be extremely proud of and one that you would feel comfortable selling on ClickBank for $129 or so."

      Then make an effective sales letter!

      good luck newbies. internet marketing isn't this difficult.
      Why not?

      It's one of the most effective, leveraged strategies in this business.

      I can guarantee you that opening a restaurant, or a retail business, or anything else with serious fixed costs and setup time is a million times harder.

      And, once again, the implication here is that they'd have to do it all themselves.

      If you know what you want to have, others can do it for you. It's really that simple.

      Yes, it takes seed capital.

      But to produce a digital product, create a salesletter, create list/backend content and even outsource an experienced affiliate recruiter can all be done for a FRACTION of what it would take to open even a small restaurant or cafe.

      And on top of that your cash-flow and profit would be phenomenal in comparison if you're selling something that's in-demand with an effective sales process.

      I can't believe Todd is being knocked so badly for suggesting something that, done correctly, will actually create serious revenue because it's a fundamental strategy.

      Why do you think "bum marketing" even works?

      It works because it relies on PRODUCTS that convert.

      But who do you think makes the lion's share - honestly?

      Think about the absurdity of what's happened here in this thread.

      People need to understand that a "newbie" in this business doesn't mean that someone's broke, or totally green in terms of business sense.

      LOTS of people who venture into IM have previous entrepreneurial experience, and some have cash for startup costs.

      That's what I would consider a "newbie".

      The other type of newbie is someone who basically just wants to make money, somehow, from the web. And there's nothing wrong with that - and no, this strategy isn't the easiest thing for them to do.

      But that's not the only kind of "newbie" around.

      Don't be so quick to knock something just because it seems hard.

      If you ask me, I think having to write and submit 10 articles a day and spend all night social bookmarking stuff just to slowly perpetuate scraper traffic is INSANITY.

      And it's WAY more work than producing hot-selling products.

      I know, because I've been on both sides of the fence.

      -Chris

      P.S. And to anyone who's reading this and considering the so-called "rules" about price-points that people are posting - ignore them.

      Price-point effectiveness depends entirely on the market.

      There's some markets where low price points (even as entry products) make no sense.

      And then there's others where if you tried selling aything over $50, your conversion would be so close to non-existant it wouldn't be worth the effort.

      So ignore what you "hear", and pay close attention to what you actually SEE in the marketplace. There IS a difference...
      Signature

      Making 6 Figures From Affiliate Marketing is Easier Than You Think. Here's Proof:

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      • Profile picture of the author Rich Mann
        Wow is all I an say. As a Newbie, reading about all these strategies and earning potential makes my head spin. I know this from a neophyte standpoint. You are all right from your own perspectives. I have been busting my A$$ off and have spent a crapload of $$ trying to get myself going. To be honest, I have so many emails from so many IM giants, that it get really confusing as to which one(s) to actually model after.

        Right now I'm going after the Bum Marketing method with non profitable websites up on my own domains. I jumped before I knew what I was jumping at. So now I'm using the Bum method to do testing before actually committing to another domain. I have a fairly good grasp on the market research now but it is still very slow going. I have learned boatloads here at WF and respect and admire all you that have made money in IM. I have yet to make a single $ but I have the persistence and motivation to see this all the way through.

        Steve W. I have been reading all your emails with intensity and appreciate all you have been teaching. Thank You.
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        Sig went on vacation. Will return shortly smothered with some AwesomeSauce!

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