someone stealing your product...

27 replies
Hey what do you do if you find a warriorfoum member uploading your content to a free blackhat forum and you've identified who it is?

Can this person be banned from the warriorforum if you can prove they did it?
#product #stealing
  • Profile picture of the author Gaura Klausner
    Try contacting the admins at their support email address
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  • Profile picture of the author Rory Singh
    Sorry to hear about that. Hopefully the admins can sort it out.

    Don't worry too much about them stealing your content. It won't help them to become successful but the EXACT Opposite.

    What goes around comes around and they are just hurting themselves in the long run.
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  • Profile picture of the author zaccks
    i don't think WF can ban him. you need to report him the blackhat forum he is sharing the product and let them it's a stolen product and must take down the page.

    but why limit the case to warriorforum only?

    you need to sue him for violating copyright.

    If you guys are from the same country you should try find something that will help you track his location and report him to the appropriate authority that's in charge of dealing cases like this.

    try to get things like his email, paypal email, website,

    try to connect the guy without letting him knowing that he stole your product.

    you can trick him to find his phone number and then you could possibly track him with the company he registered.

    but if you're from different countries, i think the best you could do is to report to the website he is hosting the product. in most cases like this they use free file sharing sites, hurry up and report so that they should remove your content. if the website list their phone number, hurry up and call them to let them know what's happening.

    most file sharing sites will not only delete your content but will also banned him.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ghoster
    Piracy is a reality of Internet marketing. It's best to dust your shoulders off and move on. Once your content is out there, it's out there. It might be on one blackhat forum right now, or it might be on 5 private torrent trackers by now. You have no way of knowing, and you're not going to catch and remove them all. No way, no how.

    Keep this in mind, though:

    Most people who pirate stuff probably weren't going to buy from you anyway. And 90% of them won't take action on w/e info you share, either. So most of them are just wasting their time. Just make sure you publish everything under a single brand so you can at least get some name recognition out of it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Gaura Klausner
    This. "Most people who pirate stuff probably weren't going to buy from you anyway.". SO true.
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  • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
    Banned
    Originally Posted by RyanJohnson1 View Post

    Can this person be banned from the warriorforum if you can prove they did it?
    Under the "former regime", the answer to that question was always "yes", I think, even if it wasn't always openly acknowledged.

    These days - who knows? (But I'd like to think so, if you handle it "neatly".)

    Good luck with this, Ryan. Things like this actually matter, to all of us, directly and indirectly, and far more significantly so than the meagre space and time we collectively allocate, here, to discussing them.

    Originally Posted by gauramohana View Post

    "Most people who pirate stuff probably weren't going to buy from you anyway."
    I don't believe this for a moment!

    I think it's just dream-world stuff. The reality is that this planet is full of people who - when they want to buy a particular product - routinely start by looking around for an illicit free download copy online, but then buy and pay for it if they can't find one. There are whole countries (and many of them!) where that's considered more or less "the standard way to get something online".

    Sorry, but this theory that people who will download a pirated copy "were never going to pay for it anyway" is one of the biggest myths there is, online. It's also what many people who can't be bothered to research and inform themselves accurately about product security tell themselves, to try to make themselves feel better about it. That's their problem. We don't need to join them in their delusion.


    .
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    • Profile picture of the author RyanJohnson1
      Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

      Under the "former regime", the answer to that question was always "yes", I think, even if it wasn't always openly acknowledged.

      These days - who knows? (But I'd like to think so, if you handle it "neatly".)

      Good luck with this, Ryan. Things like this actually matter, to all of us, directly and indirectly, and far more significantly so than the meagre space and time we collectively allocate, here, to discussing them.



      I don't believe this for a moment!

      I think it's just dream-world stuff. The reality is that this planet is full of people who - when they want to buy a particular product - routinely start by looking around for an illicit free download copy online, but then buy and pay for it if they can't find one. There are whole countries (and many of them!) where that's considered more or less "the standard way to get something online".

      Sorry, but this theory that people who will download a pirated copy "were never going to pay for it anyway" is one of the biggest myths there is, online. It's also what many people who can't be bothered to research and inform themselves accurately about product security tell themselves, to try to make themselves feel better about it.


      .
      Yes I believe that as well, that the people who download products on torrent sites don't take action on it.

      At the end of the day even if they don't take action on it, it just devalues the courses so much when your customers who are honest take their hard earned money and invest in your solution when others are out there can get your goods for absolutely free.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ghoster
    I don't believe this for a moment!

    I think it's just dream-world stuff. The reality is that this planet is full of people who - when they want to buy a particular product - routinely start by looking around for an illicit free download copy online, but then buy and pay for it if they can't find one. There are whole countries (and many of them!) where that's considered more or less "the standard way to get something online".

    Sorry, but this theory that people who will download a pirated copy "were never going to pay for it anyway" is one of the biggest myths there is, online. It's also what many people who can't be bothered to research and inform themselves accurately about product security tell themselves, to try to make themselves feel better about it. That's their problem. We don't need to join them in their delusion.
    That's a very paranoid world-view. Extremely tech-savvy people might do as you describe, but most people are not extremely tech-savvy.
    Sorry, but this theory that people who will download a pirated copy "were never going to pay for it anyway" is one of the biggest myths there is, online.
    No, it's the opinion of people who have read the research.

    According to the University of Columbia, people who pirate casually actually purchase more products than those who don't.

    Your opinion on the matter is a common one, but it is ultimately short-sighted—and not supported by evidence.

    Pirates are passionate, and they can become your best brand ambassadors. Most of these people aren't greedy. They are just understandably skeptical of copy. And let's be honest, there are tons of over-hyped products out there.

    Once they value your brand, they are more likely to buy and spread your brand by word-of-mouth.

    You shouldn't focus on why people are pirating your products, you should focus on why they aren't buying.

    Because, ultimately, there isn't a damn thing you will ever be able to do about pirating. Anyone who says otherwise simply doesn't understand how the Internet works.

    You might as well look at it as a loss-leader. This is good news for people who actually put out good products.
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    • Profile picture of the author RyanJohnson1
      "You shouldn't focus on why people are pirating your products, you should focus on why they aren't buying. "

      they aren't buying because they are pirating it lol

      Originally Posted by Ghoster View Post

      That's a very paranoid world-view. Extremely tech-savvy people might do as you describe, but most people are not extremely tech-savvy.


      No, it's the opinion of people who have read the research.

      According to the University of Columbia, people who pirate casually actually purchase more products than those who don't.

      Your opinion on the matter is a common one, but it is ultimately short-sighted--and not supported by evidence.

      Pirates are passionate, and they can become your best brand ambassadors. Most of these people aren't greedy. They are just understandably skeptical of copy. And let's be honest, there are tons of over-hyped products out there.

      Once they value your brand, they are more likely to buy and spread your brand by word-of-mouth.

      You shouldn't focus on why people are pirating your products, you should focus on why they aren't buying.

      Because, ultimately, there isn't a damn thing you will ever be able to do about pirating. Anyone who says otherwise simply doesn't understand how the Internet works.

      You might as well look at it as a loss-leader. This is good news for people who actually put out good products.
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    • Profile picture of the author onSubie
      Originally Posted by Ghoster View Post

      That's a very paranoid world-view. Extremely tech-savvy people might do as you describe, but most people are not extremely tech-savvy.

      It depends a lot on the niche. If you are in IM/MMO, Gaming, Software, Music, Film, etc.

      You can be sure a lot of your customers are looking to see if they can get it free and will buy if they can't find it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ghoster
    If they are pirating it, that tells you that it at least has valuable information. Maybe your price is too high.

    All I'm saying is that trying to prevent pirating is a waste of time, so put your energies into fine-tuning your copy or other optimizations.

    Here is the mental process that a pirate goes through when they see your copy:

    1. HERE IS A PRODUCT I LIKE

    2. DO I WANT THIS PRODUCT? (YES/NO)

    3. CAN I FIND THIS ONLINE? (YES)

    4. I DON'T HAVE TO PAY FOR THIS, BUT DO I WANT TO SUPPORT THE AUTHOR? (YES/NO)

    5. YES: PAY FOR IT

    6. NO: TAKE IT FOR FREE

    The people who absolutely never buy anything they can get for free are in the minority. That isn't a myth or fabrication, and if you spend any time hanging out where these guys hang out you will find it to be true.

    The best way to prevent piracy is to be an established brand that gives tons of value at a fair price. If you're just starting out, you can offer bonuses to registered members. Maybe a webinar.

    If a pirate recommends your product to someone they know, most of the time he/she isn't going to send the person a link to the torrent site they downloaded it from. That's what a lot of people don't understand. They will actually send the person to your landing page, with no thought of receiving a commission. For one thing, a lot of people don't want to admit that they got a free version for various reasons. For another, giving people a bit torrent link is a pain in the ### if that person doesn't understand the underlying technology. Finally, because they now value you or your brand, they are willing to help you make some money.



    The surest way to attract pirates and other tech-savvy undesirables is to go around talking about how you hate piracy and other tech-savvy undesirables.
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    • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
      Originally Posted by Ghoster View Post

      Pirates are passionate, and they can become your best brand ambassadors.
      Originally Posted by Ghoster View Post

      If they are pirating it, that tells you that it at least has valuable information. Maybe your price is too high.
      Originally Posted by Ghoster View Post

      The best way to prevent piracy is to be an established brand that gives tons of value at a fair price.
      Originally Posted by Ghoster View Post

      If a pirate recommends your product to someone they know, most of the time he/she isn't going to send the person a link to the torrent site they downloaded it from.


      I've seen a lot of bad posts on the forum but rare to see someone promote criminal action such as theft and then try to justify being a criminal.

      None of this is true.

      Black hatters passing out your products promote their own black hat sites. They may even make some money with each download.

      Adding "value" does not decrease theft. It increases it, hence the contradiction in statements where it is noted theft results from having a product with value.

      The best way to prevent piracy is not to be a large brand with valuable products. Do you realize how much money large brands have drained due to piracy? How much money they have to spend on legal issues, sending C&D letters, taking down sites? At least brands have the resources to protect themselves. The little guy trying to squeak out a living just gets robbed.

      If you want someone to pass around your product do so intentionally. Offer resell rights. Tell people in your report it is a giveaway.

      Otherwise, these posts are just promoting theft and it is telling when someone tries to justify stealing money off someone's table by saying hey, your price was too high, so I decided to steal it, but you'll probably make more money in the long run because I'll risk criminal action and tell the world about my thievery and you'll some make more sales as a result. Pfft.

      A feature Warrior Payments needs for people like this is a ban button - at the individual and group levels. Like JVZoo and Zaxaa have.

      .
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  • Profile picture of the author Humbee360
    I have a different view on Pirated content, I believe that as a seller I have a duty to protect my paying customers from a dilution of my products.

    Simply put if I ignore it or pretend it does not exist what am I really telling my buyers?

    "Head on over and get it free" or " when you buy my product everyone else is getting it free and I don't care?"

    That would be a foolish way to do business, but you see it all the time, that is the general consensus for many product owners and developers, (you can't stop it so why not join them?)

    That is purely stupid;, Sorry, but it irks me when I see people advocating the idea that you can't stop it and so you should just ignore it or why spend time trying to protect my buyers from criminals?

    Another is your price must be too high LOL, what crap, )

    The truth is you really cannot stop it but you can l limit it and you can protect the investment that your buyers make when trusting you by making a purchase.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ghoster
      Originally Posted by Humbee360 View Post

      I have a different view on Pirated content, I believe that as a seller I have a duty to protect my paying customers from a dilution of my products.

      Simply put if I ignore it or pretend it does not exist what am I really telling my buyers?

      "Head on over and get it free" or " when you buy my product everyone else is getting it free and I don't care?"

      That would be a foolish way to do business, but you see it all the time, that is the general consensus for many product owners and developers, (you can't stop it so why not join them?)

      That is purely stupid;, Sorry, but it irks me when I see people advocating the idea that you can't stop it and so you should just ignore it or why spend time trying to protect my buyers from criminals?

      Another is your price must be too high LOL, what crap, )

      The truth is you really cannot stop it but you can l limit it and you can protect the investment that your buyers make when trusting you by making a purchase.
      lol, I'm not advocating piracy, I'm just pointing out that it isn't all bad like you seem to want to believe. It's not a black and white issue.

      And yeah, price is one variable you can control. If you're product is priced above its perceived (their perception, not yours) value, then yes, more people are going to pirate it. That's basic economic reality.

      Do you actually think that people who download stuff for free are literal pirates? Many of them will happily pay for a product when they can. Those who don't were never going to buy from you anyway. It's understandable that the idea of them having access to your product is infuriating, but there isn't much you can do about it.

      In some cases, fighting back will cost much, much more. Many times, the same people who know where to find things for free are also the ones who know how to hack into WordPress . That sucks, but the Internet is the Wild Wild West, and you chose to operate within it.

      BTW, copyright infringement is a civil offence in most places, not a criminal one. Granted, people who seed torrents containing other people's IP all day are not great human beings. But to call someone who downloads your file a "criminal" is a bit much. And also, if you were going to sue someone who you knew for a fact downloaded your work via bit torrent or any other means, you would have to be able to prove damages. (In the US anyway)So unless you're an established business, this is going to be very hard to do, and you'll just burn through your money.

      In Canada and some other countries, downloading is not considered an offence at all.

      I realize that my perspective on this is not welcome on a forum like this. That's fine. But piracy is a cost of doing business these days. Hating it isn't going to change it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ghoster
    I presented an argument backed up by solid research. Your response is pure emotion.

    I've seen a lot of bad posts on the forum but rare to see someone promote criminal action such as theft and then try to justify being a criminal.
    Please. Explaining a situation is not advocacy.

    How much money they have to spend on legal issues, sending C&D letters, taking down sites? At least brands have the resources to protect themselves. The little guy trying to squeak out a living just gets robbed.
    They don't "have" to do any of that. Those companies (mainly the music industry) are a huge part of the problem. The more they fight, the more the pirates will pirate. It becomes about principle for these people. (the pirates)

    Adding "value" does not decrease theft.
    I never claimed that it did.

    I am not promoting theft. I am saying that pirating is inevitable..which it is.

    Fretting over it is just money wasted.
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  • Profile picture of the author nicoli
    Yes, and I had a member banned from the WF for ripping my WSO's and others WSO's and publishing on leak sites. Just write to freelancer support and go from there. They require screenshots and urls to look into it, but they do take action.

    The funny thing is, a lot of the people who downloaded my products illegally started emailing me for support, and I managed to push them to purchase the product for support!

    The others who refused to purchase, got my own "personalised" support in the form of steering them down an expensive and dead end path. Quite fun really.
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    • Profile picture of the author Ghoster
      Originally Posted by nicoli View Post

      Yes, and I had a member banned from the WF for ripping my WSO's and others WSO's and publishing on leak sites. Just write to freelancer support and go from there. They require screenshots and urls to look into it, but they do take action.

      The funny thing is, a lot of the people who downloaded my products illegally started emailing me for support, and I managed to push them to purchase the product for support!

      The others who refused to purchase, got my own "personalised" support in the form osteering them down an expensive and dead end path. Quite fun really.
      Very smart
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    • Profile picture of the author heavysm
      Originally Posted by nicoli View Post


      The funny thing is, a lot of the people who downloaded my products illegally started emailing me for support, and I managed to push them to purchase the product for support!
      Wow, I knew people were stupid but sheesh! LOL
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      • Profile picture of the author nicoli
        Originally Posted by heavysm View Post

        Wow, I knew people were stupid but sheesh! LOL
        Some of their emails are pathetic, sob stories but when they realise they are missing out on the support they need they either buy or go batshit crazy. I love it.
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  • Profile picture of the author sal64
    It sucks, but then again, my stuff is just my take on other people's stuff.

    If it was 100% original and unique then I'd get a patent on it.
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  • This happened to me when I put out my first and second product out on JVZoo last fall! I was upset to see it on a couple black hat forums and even emailed them to let them know what was going on - never heard back from them (surprise surprise).
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  • Profile picture of the author Humbee360
    Originally Posted by Ghoster View Post

    lol, I'm not advocating piracy, I'm just pointing out that it isn't all bad like you seem to want to believe. It's not a black and white issue.

    Me thinks thou art speaking with a double tongue.

    And yeah, price is one variable you can control. If you're product is priced above its perceived (their perception, not yours) value, then yes, more people are going to pirate it. That's basic economic reality.

    Where did you go to college, sorry but that is rubbish, were it not for the fact that it appears that you are unable to see the world view here, I would try to educate you but sadly you have a juvenile view likely based on perceptions obtained on said black hat websites.

    Do you actually think that people who download stuff for free are literal pirates? Many of them will happily pay for a product when they can. Those who don't were never going to buy from you anyway. It's understandable that the idea of them having access to your product is infuriating, but there isn't much you can do about it.

    Actually YES, there are plenty of things that can be done, the idea that you are not aware of those things is yet another reality that you appear oblivious to learn.

    You have a really diminished view and narrow view of the world, you seem to believe that your statement fill's in the gaps in your opinion, but the truth is an analogy fits better here, its called a Fable. Aesop Fables.

    In some cases, fighting back will cost much, much more. Many times, the same people who know where to find things for free are also the ones who know how to hack into WordPress . That sucks, but the Internet is the Wild Wild West, and you chose to operate within it.

    I disagree, but that is not a surprise considering your "head in the sand attitude."

    BTW, copyright infringement is a civil offence in most places, not a criminal one. Granted, people who seed torrents containing other people's IP all day are not great human beings. But to call someone who downloads your file a "criminal" is a bit much. And also, if you were going to sue someone who you knew for a fact downloaded your work via bit torrent or any other means, you would have to be able to prove damages. (In the US anyway)So unless you're an established business, this is going to be very hard to do, and you'll just burn through your money.

    Bad argument, (apples to oranges) Get the facts, (were talking about piracy not copyright infringement) You have no idea what your doing, I bet you have so many viruses on your computer that you can barely use it.

    In Canada and some other countries, downloading is not considered an offence at all.

    You might want to keep up with the state of Canada's legal definitions, it can change your life.

    https://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/dail...185628067.html

    Again, wrong, argument, but at this point it looks like your going to be lost trying to figure out your future for long time to come.

    I realize that my perspective on this is not welcome on a forum like this. That's fine. But piracy is a cost of doing business these days. Hating it isn't going to change it.
    Perspectives, (opinions) are always welcome, you have a right to believe anything you wish to believe, that does not make it true or correct.

    Piracy is not a cost of doing business, (I do not agree with that idea)

    This is not Hate, (you attempt to interject emotion because you have no real argument to make, so emotion is your fall back crutch)


    Strip away the ignorance, revealing the truth underneath.

    Grow up, learn new things, stop thinking that people owe you a living, they don't, If you want to succeed in this business you should seriously consider getting an adult education about life.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    dealing with theft is just part of doing business. Virtually every offline business has a small percentage of their "customer" who steal things from them. its just the way things are.

    Walmart losses millions every year to such thefts.... The internet is no different.

    The best things you can do are simply to make it slightly more difficult for folks to steal and distribute your content.

    You should also have some call to action "special offer" type of thing in your products that tries to bring people into your "system" no matter how they got your content.

    The key is just to actually wrap your head around the fact that you cant really stop this without making your sales process a terrible experience for your true customers to the point where they probably wont do business with you. And even then, you wont stop all of it. Imagine walmart trying to frisk every customer as they leave their store. maybe they could cut theft somewhat, but at what costs?

    Just be aware of their tactics and try to do the best you can to limit the damage and gain some benefit when things are inevitably stolen without spending too much of your time, money, energy, and effort worrying about the scammers and cheaters.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ghoster
    Humbee360, It's just a cost of doing business. End of story. 10 years from now this will be universally recognized. Check back then.

    "Denial is a river in Egypt" (or insert other cliche here)

    I don't know of any business issue that is black and white. There is always something positive that you can get out of anything.

    Look at how the music industry has mismanaged the piracy situation. There are a lot of great insights to be gleaned from that. Shutting Napster down didn't help them, but embracing iTunes did. Most people will opt to pay for something that is fairly priced. But if you're selling a $7,000 course, for instance, you have to expect piracy. That's the reality. Getting mad about it is just counterproductive.

    Also, the more DRM you use, the faster someone will volunteer to crack it. Fact.
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