Clickbank and pre-sale website/review website

9 years ago

Create blog or site to presell is great way. You maybe use email marketing by use send free ebook to visitor for presell. I think it could be to improve your conversion rate.

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Taniwha

9 years ago

Originally Posted by wizard12

It seems that people believe that using a presell website helps the conversion rate, So I am going to give it a try soon...

More than that, "pre-sell websites" let you sell them on offers down the road, AS WELL as making money on the initial sale. This will dramatically improve your CLV (customer lifetime value) providing you're handing out value like a philanthropist at a sweatshop.

Currently you're putting in a lot of effort to create one customer of which you'll never see again.

A $50 commission could quickly turn into a CLV of >$500 if you capture their email and play your cards right.

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Bob Reynolds

9 years ago

On the presell it would be worth looking into some art of persuasion, use it to build a relationship and place to provide the benefits of not only your product but more exposure.

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wizard12

9 years ago

Thank you guys for all your inputs,

But what is the difference finally? I have no clue, so need help please... I know that with review webpage, I just review the product, But what about a presell page? What should I add in such a page?

Thanks

Thanks
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Alexa Smith

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by ronyoung

One is to sell and the other is more of a review and less like a sale page

This is utter nonsense. You have no idea what you're talking about.

I'm dismayed - and amazed - that even after having so many of your most fatuous posts deleted yesterday by the Moderators, you're still spouting nonsense today.

Originally Posted by wizard12

But what is the difference finally? I have no clue, so need help please...

Your question relates to "what sort of website you need to do ClickBank affiliate marketing successfully".

Absolutely no criticism intended at all, but that's just not a very good starting position, realistically. It's missing the point (and for most people it's a "point" that determines whether they make any real money).

In my opinion, you should re-appraise your concept of "how and why people buy ClickBank products through the links of affiliate marketers".

What the affiliate marketers' websites look like - though sometimes relevant in a cursory sort of way - is much, much lower on the long list of answers to what you really need to know than you appreciate.

Originally Posted by wizard12

what about a presell page?

Like many people who have been making our livings this way for many years, I don't really have "pre-sell pages" at all, and I recommend that you probably shouldn't, either. Especially when you're relatively inexperienced, they're likely to do you far more harm than good.

Pre-selling is done (by successful ClickBank affiliates) by building trust-based relationships by email, not on websites.

Yes, you need a website, to collect the email addresses of your visitors, and it needs to look clean and simple and authentic, and it needs to have some credibility, and it needs to form a step in your overall continuity-process, but the website itself doesn't need to pre-sell the products, and you may do very much better if it doesn't (because the future "better customers" are more willing to opt in if your site doesn't look as if it's there "to sell things". Anything that might come across as "salesy" or "persuasion" is exactly what you need to avoid, in this context).

Originally Posted by wizard12

What should I add in such a page?

Nothing: you don't need that page at all.

I'm telling you something that's slightly different from the direct question you're asking - I freely admit - and I apologise for it, but that relates to the difference between "what you want to know" and "what you actually need to know".

If you're open-minded enough to let this post help you, it will really help you: What are the best ways to promote click bank products?

Stop thinking about "review pages" and start thinking about building trust-based relationships by email. If you want to make money from it.

.

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1 reply

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rsmb99

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

This is utter nonsense. You have no idea what you're talking about.

I'm dismayed - and amazed - that even after having so many of your most fatuous posts deleted yesterday by the Moderators, you're still spouting nonsense today.

Your question relates to "what sort of website you need to do ClickBank affiliate marketing successfully".

Absolutely no criticism intended at all, but that's just not a very good starting position, realistically. It's missing the point (and for most people it's a "point" that determines whether they make any real money).

In my opinion, you should re-appraise your concept of "how and why people buy ClickBank products through the links of affiliate marketers".

What the affiliate marketers' websites look like - though sometimes relevant in a cursory sort of way - is much, much lower on the long list of answers to what you really need to know than you appreciate.

Like many people who have been making our livings this way for many years, I don't really have "pre-sell pages" at all, and I recommend that you probably shouldn't, either. Especially when you're relatively inexperienced, they're likely to do you far more harm than good.

Pre-selling is done (by successful ClickBank affiliates) by building trust-based relationships by email, not on websites.

Yes, you need a website, to collect the email addresses of your visitors, and it needs to look clean and simple and authentic, and it needs to have some credibility, and it needs to form a step in your overall continuity-process, but the website itself doesn't need to pre-sell the products, and you may do very much better if it doesn't (because the future "better customers" are more willing to opt in if your site doesn't look as if it's there "to sell things". Anything that might come across as "salesy" or "persuasion" is exactly what you need to avoid, in this context).

Nothing: you don't need that page at all.

I'm telling you something that's slightly different from the direct question you're asking - I freely admit - and I apologise for it, but that relates to the difference between "what you want to know" and "what you actually need to know".

If you're open-minded enough to let this post help you, it will really help you: What are the best ways to promote click bank products?

Stop thinking about "review pages" and start thinking about building trust-based relationships by email. If you want to make money from it.

.

Hi Alexa,

I had been going through the various links you have posted on the right ways to promote Clickbank products, pre-selling, traffic and list building. Basically, you are saying not to pre-sell on the web site but do this by building trust-based relationships by email. In reply to a question on the best ways to promote Clickbank products, your reply emphasizes the three inescapable essentials namely 1) Selecting the product 2) pre-sell effectively to well targeted traffic and 3) build subscriber email lists yourself. Though these are all essential, I couldn't really see any ways or methods to best promote CB products which is what the question is about.

Overall, you are advocating building trust of your email subscribers and then selling them CB products. While I see that it is a very effective way to do this, I don't get how or where you get these subscribers in the first place and how/ where to capture them. What role does a web site play in affiliate marketing? Could you please explain?

Thanks
1 reply

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Alexa Smith

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by rsmb99

Overall, you are advocating building trust of your email subscribers and then selling them CB products. While I see that it is a very effective way to do this, I don't get how or where you get these subscribers in the first place

Like any internet marketer, you need a traffic-generation plan. Subscribers are "visitors" who give you their email addresses.

For ClickBank affiliates, it helps hugely if the primary traffic-generation methods are ones that don't rely on or involve Google, for all these reasons.

Originally Posted by rsmb99

and how/ where to capture them.

On an opt-in page of some kind (which doesn't have to be a "squeeze page", though that's one system - not the one I use, myself.)

Typically, you offer people a highly targeted and appealing "free report" (though you don't have to call it that, of course).

The "free report" (or whatever you call it) needs to serve all these purposes and - in general - your future income from the list depends (partly) on the extent to which it does serve all those purposes. That's probably the single most important and most income-determining component of the chain of continuity.

Originally Posted by rsmb99

What role does a web site play in affiliate marketing? Could you please explain?

I think it varies enormously. Different people have different ways. All my own experience leads me to believe that the less the role the website plays, the more successful the business is likely to be (I'm talking only in the context of ClickBank products, here, of course.)

The primary purpose of the website is to collect the email addresses. Not to sell things.

The key concept is that the people who are likely to become the best customers are the same ones who are put off by seeing sales banners, because in their minds, banners and "overt product sales" make it "just another marketer's site" and they won't opt in to those.

Email addresses of different subscribers are collected with "squeeze pages" and "content-rich opt-in pages on small, content-rich websites", and this can also have a very significant effect on future income: http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post7939758 .

The content on my websites is really there to "look right" (i.e. to build credibility and continuity) and to encourage the people who are likely to turn into the best future customers to opt in. It isn't there to try to sell anything. I could sell a bit, that way, of course, but every sale I made that way would cost me several future sales, by putting other people off subscribing.

I see people with "ClickBank banners" on their websites, sending their traffic directly to hoplinks/affiliate-sales-pages, and I see them saying in conversations here that they think a 1% conversion-rate is very acceptable (and I know that many of them are getting conversion-rates far below that, too!).

My aim, with my subscribers, is for 50% of them to buy one or more ClickBank-type products during the course of the email series they receive from me. You can see for yourself the overwhelming difference in income terms. Of course, it isn't really a 50-fold difference, because only a proportion of my visitors subscribe. (Honesty also compels me to admit that I don't always quite achieve that 50% target, and I don't mind too much when I don't - especially as quite a few subscribers eventually buy multiple products anyway - but that's my aim.)

.

Thanks
1 reply

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rsmb99

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

Like any internet marketer, you need a traffic-generation plan. Subscribers are "visitors" who give you their email addresses.

For ClickBank affiliates, it helps hugely if the primary traffic-generation methods are ones that don't rely on or involve Google, for all these reasons.

On an opt-in page of some kind (which doesn't have to be a "squeeze page", though that's one system - not the one I use, myself.)

Typically, you offer people a highly targeted and appealing "free report" (though you don't have to call it that, of course).

The "free report" (or whatever you call it) needs to serve all these purposes and - in general - your future income from the list depends (partly) on the extent to which it does serve all those purposes. That's probably the single most important and most income-determining component of the chain of continuity.

I think it varies enormously. Different people have different ways. All my own experience leads me to believe that the less the role the website plays, the more successful the business is likely to be (I'm talking only in the context of ClickBank products, here, of course.)

The primary purpose of the website is to collect the email addresses. Not to sell things.

The key concept is that the people who are likely to become the best customers are the same ones who are put off by seeing sales banners, because in their minds, banners and "overt product sales" make it "just another marketer's site" and they won't opt in to those.

Email addresses of different subscribers are collected with "squeeze pages" and "content-rich opt-in pages on small, content-rich websites", and this can also have a very significant effect on future income: http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...ml#post7939758 .

The content on my websites is really there to "look right" (i.e. to build credibility and continuity) and to encourage the people who are likely to turn into the best future customers to opt in. It isn't there to try to sell anything. I could sell a bit, that way, of course, but every sale I made that way would cost me several future sales, by putting other people off subscribing.

I see people with "ClickBank banners" on their websites, sending their traffic directly to hoplinks/affiliate-sales-pages, and I see them saying in conversations here that they think a 1% conversion-rate is very acceptable (and I know that many of them are getting conversion-rates far below that, too!).

My aim, with my subscribers, is for 50% of them to buy one or more ClickBank-type products during the course of the email series they receive from me. You can see for yourself the overwhelming difference in income terms. Of course, it isn't really a 50-fold difference, because only a proportion of my visitors subscribe. (Honesty also compels me to admit that I don't always quite achieve that 50% target, and I don't mind too much when I don't - especially as quite a few subscribers eventually buy multiple products anyway - but that's my aim.)

.

The primary purpose of the website is to collect the email addresses, not to sell things or even to pre-sell things (like you said it has to be done only to your trusted email subscribers). So if I want to "look right" (i.e. build credibility and continuity) and collect loyal subscribers, what kind of content should I have on my website?

You said I need a traffic-generation plan and as a ClickBank affiliate, it helps hugely if the primary traffic-generation methods are ones that don't rely on or involve Google. What traffic generation plan do you recommend for this?

When you say not to have any selling or pre-selling on website, it means I shouldn't have any product reviews or pre-sell literature relating to the product. So where and how do I pre-sell them if at all? Is it only through the email messages to my subscribers?

Thanks
1 reply

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Alexa Smith

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by rsmb99

what kind of content should I have on my website?

Generally, whatever content (that you can practicably come up with) lends itself to encouraging subscriptions from those of your visitors who are likely to become good customers. Sorry, but nobody can possibly answer this more specifically for you without knowing anything about your business, your niche, your customers, your targeted demographics, and so on.

Anyone can tell you what works best for them, but with no possible way of judging whether it's going to be appropriate to you. For myself, most of my site's content - measuring quantitatively, i.e. by word-count, anyway - is just the original copies of the articles I also use, elsewhere, as my major traffic-generation method.

You don't need a lot of content, though, to achieve this. (My niche sites, when I start each, contain about 3-4 articles. That does gradually grow, as I write more, but I write only 2-3 articles per month, per niche, so it grows pretty slowly.) For me, the important point is for it to be clear to visitors that it isn't a squeeze-page, but a "content-filled site" (even if it's a pretty small one).

Originally Posted by rsmb99

What traffic generation plan do you recommend for this?

Sorry if my answers are unhelpful, but I have to answer this in the same way as the question above, really: it depends on all the relevant factors of your business, none of which I know anything about.

Again, I can tell you about mine, which is here. Whether it's suitable for your business, I can't tell (that depends largely - as most online income-earning things do, on your own skill-set), but my own business and what I see/share/learn/discuss about the businesses of other successful ClickBank affiliates all tell me that it's one that can work very well for our purposes.

Originally Posted by rsmb99

When you say not to have any selling or pre-selling on website, it means I shouldn't have any product reviews or pre-sell literature relating to the product.

Not necessarily quite that. Not having them visible to the casual/quick visitor is usually enough. You can have them on other pages that very few people are going to look at, if you want, and I've sometimes done that.)

Originally Posted by rsmb99

So where and how do I pre-sell them if at all? Is it only through the email messages to my subscribers?

Yes.

That way, you don't lose the best ones, and they all see the product-related stuff after you've established credibility and trust, rather than before. Typically, that makes a huge difference.

.

.

Thanks
1 reply

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rsmb99

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

Generally, whatever content (that you can practicably come up with) lends itself to encouraging subscriptions from those of your visitors who are likely to become good customers. Sorry, but nobody can possibly answer this more specifically for you without knowing anything about your business, your niche, your customers, your targeted demographics, and so on.

Anyone can tell you what works best for them, but with no possible way of judging whether it's going to be appropriate to you. For myself, most of my site's content - measuring quantitatively, i.e. by word-count, anyway - is just the original copies of the articles I also use, elsewhere, as my major traffic-generation method.

You don't need a lot of content, though, to achieve this. (My niche sites, when I start each, contain about 3-4 articles. That does gradually grow, as I write more, but I write only 2-3 articles per month, per niche, so it grows pretty slowly.) For me, the important point is for it to be clear to visitors that it isn't a squeeze-page, but a "content-filled site" (even if it's a pretty small one).

Sorry if my answers are unhelpful, but I have to answer this in the same way as the question above, really: it depends on all the relevant factors of your business, none of which I know anything about.

Again, I can tell you about mine, which is here. Whether it's suitable for your business, I can't tell (that depends largely - as most online income-earning things do, on your own skill-set), but my own business and what I see/share/learn/discuss about the businesses of other successful ClickBank affiliates all tell me that it's one that can work very well for our purposes.

Not necessarily quite that. Not having them visible to the casual/quick visitor is usually enough. You can have them on other pages that very few people are going to look at, if you want, and I've sometimes done that.)

Yes.

That way, you don't lose the best ones, and they all see the product-related stuff after you've established credibility and trust, rather than before. Typically, that makes a huge difference.

.

.

Article marketing is no doubt a very effective way to get targeted traffic to a website. Its a double whammy when you consider that you not only get traffic from all the places it is syndicated to but also the link juice your website article gets from all those back-links in turn helps it to rank in the SERPs and attract organic search engine traffic too.

That said, one thing I don't quiet understand is your dislike for organic search engine traffic and why you think it is not targeted. I think it all boils down to what people are searching (read keywords) for in the search engines and giving them what they are looking for. Over the last couple of years I have bought quiet a few digital and physical products online. Each and every time, the last thing I recall doing before I actually made those purchases was doing a Google search for the 'product name' or 'product name +review' or 'product name+discount' or 'product name+bonus'. Whenever I have done this, I have literally had my credit card beside me and bought immediately after reading a good review. I am sure any one who has bought products online can relate to this scenario or substantiate this plain fact.

Apparently, people use search engines for this because it is a faster, easier way to discover a lot of reviews and information from one place. Judging from the fact that we have all done this before buying, it is quiet clear that searchers of 'product name' related keywords are those on the last leg of their research or even decided on buying and are only looking for a justification for purchasing. If they can use their credit cards or PayPal accounts to buy, then they very likely will do so in the future too. Therefore it makes good marketing sense in my opinion to have reviews of products or presell literature on web site optimized for product name keywords so that they rank in organic search results well enough to cater to these 'product name' searches. There would be no loss of credibility or trust if the product is good enough to solve their problem and your review has done justice that way.

Thanks
1 reply

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Alexa Smith

Banned 9 years ago

Originally Posted by rsmb99

Article marketing is no doubt a very effective way to get targeted traffic to a website. Its a double whammy when you consider that you not only get traffic from all the places it is syndicated to but also the link juice your website article gets from all those back-links in turn helps it to rank in the SERPs and attract organic search engine traffic too.

To be honest, though I get floods of search-engine traffic, it barely monetizes at all for me, by comparison with direct article marketing traffic. In round numbers, it's about 20% of my traffic and 2% of my income. So I can't really claim to have benefited profoundly from those undoubted SEO benefits that can accrue from article syndication.

Originally Posted by rsmb99

one thing I don't quiet understand is your dislike for organic search engine traffic and why you think it is not targeted.

I've never said it's not targeted. Clearly it's targeted. It just converts very badly, by comparison with direct article marketing traffic.

Search engine traffic, in every single one of my niches, has been uniformly the worst-converting traffic out of everything I've ever tried - search engine visitors to all my websites typically stay the least time, view the fewest pages, opt in the least often and actually buy anything by far the least often.

Originally Posted by rsmb99

Each and every time, the last thing I recall doing before I actually made those purchases was doing a Google search for the 'product name' or 'product name +review' or 'product name+discount' or 'product name+bonus'. Whenever I have done this, I have literally had my credit card beside me and bought immediately after reading a good review. I am sure any one who has bought products online can relate to this scenario or substantiate this plain fact.

I'm certainly not disputing it.

I prefer to make my own living by promoting products to people who have sometimes never heard of them at all, but are interested in the niche and willing to buy them on the strength of my recommendation. There's far more of that traffic to start with, and it converts far better.

On the sites on which I do have some product reviews (as I mentioned in post #10, just above), I don't conceal those pages from search engines (as some do). They get traffic from search engines. But it's very noticeable that most of the sales those links make are sales to people who have got to those pages not from a search engine but by clicking a link in an email I've sent them, after they've subscribed at an earlier visit to my site when they didn't see those. And I'm sufficiently familiar with my traffic demographics, and chat enough to my subscribers, to know that the fact that they didn't see those when they subscribed is often what's made them "my" customers rather than anyone else's. I get my share of the other ones you're discussing, too, but by comparison they're just not worth talking about very much.

Originally Posted by rsmb99

Apparently, people use search engines for this because it is a faster, easier way to discover a lot of reviews

Exactly so. A lot of reviews. That's another way of saying "a lot of competition", isn't it?

Originally Posted by rsmb99

Judging from the fact that we have all done this before buying, it is quiet clear that searchers of 'product name' related keywords are those on the last leg of their research or even decided on buying and are only looking for a justification for purchasing.

Yes, indeed ... we can all catch some people at exactly the right time of the "buying cycle/process", that way. I'm glad my business doesn't depend on them, though.

Originally Posted by rsmb99

Therefore it makes good marketing sense in my opinion to have reviews of products or presell literature on web site optimized for product name keywords so that they rank in organic search results well enough to cater to these 'product name' searches.

It's the "therefore" that gives me pause for thought. I don't deny that that's a popluar way of generating traffic for affiliate marketing. I just find taking a completely different approach far more profitable, myself.

As I've now explained at such length in so many posts, above, having those reviews openly/prominently on my sites loses me (at the opt-in stage) a significant proportion of the "better customers" from whose purchases I now make so much of my living. I've done both and have no illusions at all about which way pays me better.

Originally Posted by rsmb99

There would be no loss of credibility or trust if the product is good enough to solve their problem and your review has done justice that way.

Clearly and reliably, there's always been enough loss of "whatever it is" ("credibility and trust", if you like - and perhaps that's a very good description of it) for the best future customers not to opt in, that way.

Different people opt in to different sorts of sites.

In my experience, most of the "highly responsive ones" who will go on to buy product after product through my affiliate links (and let's not forget that that's where most of the long-term money is, in successful affiliate marketing?) are among the group who won't opt in to what they see as "just another marketer's review/pre-selling site".

Your mileage may vary.

It's ok for us to disagree about it, but your perspective - though I acknowledge all of it as factual - doesn't change my experience and results, having now "tried it both ways", in various different niches.

.

Thanks
1 reply

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rsmb99

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

To be honest, though I get floods of search-engine traffic, it barely monetizes at all for me, by comparison with direct article marketing traffic. In round numbers, it's about 20% of my traffic and 2% of my income. So I can't really claim to have benefited profoundly from those undoubted SEO benefits that can accrue from article syndication.

I've never said it's not targeted. Clearly it's targeted. It just converts very badly, by comparison with direct article marketing traffic.

Search engine traffic, in every single one of my niches, has been uniformly the worst-converting traffic out of everything I've ever tried - search engine visitors to all my websites typically stay the least time, view the fewest pages, opt in the least often and actually buy anything by far the least often.

I'm certainly not disputing it.

I prefer to make my own living by promoting products to people who have sometimes never heard of them at all, but are interested in the niche and willing to buy them on the strength of my recommendation. There's far more of that traffic to start with, and it converts far better.

On the sites on which I do have some product reviews (as I mentioned in post #10, just above), I don't conceal those pages from search engines (as some do). They get traffic from search engines. But it's very noticeable that most of the sales those links make are sales to people who have got to those pages not from a search engine but by clicking a link in an email I've sent them, after they've subscribed at an earlier visit to my site when they didn't see those. And I'm sufficiently familiar with my traffic demographics, and chat enough to my subscribers, to know that the fact that they didn't see those when they subscribed is often what's made them "my" customers rather than anyone else's. I get my share of the other ones you're discussing, too, but by comparison they're just not worth talking about very much.

Exactly so. A lot of reviews. That's another way of saying "a lot of competition", isn't it?

Yes, indeed ... we can all catch some people at exactly the right time of the "buying cycle/process", that way. I'm glad my business doesn't depend on them, though.

It's the "therefore" that gives me pause for thought. I don't deny that that's a popluar way of generating traffic for affiliate marketing. I just find taking a completely different approach far more profitable, myself.

As I've now explained at such length in so many posts, above, having those reviews openly/prominently on my sites loses me (at the opt-in stage) a significant proportion of the "better customers" from whose purchases I now make so much of my living. I've done both and have no illusions at all about which way pays me better.

Clearly and reliably, there's always been enough loss of "whatever it is" ("credibility and trust", if you like - and perhaps that's a very good description of it) for the best future customers not to opt in, that way.

Different people opt in to different sorts of sites.

In my experience, most of the "highly responsive ones" who will go on to buy product after product through my affiliate links (and let's not forget that that's where most of the long-term money is, in successful affiliate marketing?) are among the group who won't opt in to what they see as "just another marketer's review/pre-selling site".

Your mileage may vary.

It's ok for us to disagree about it, but your perspective - though I acknowledge all of it as factual - doesn't change my experience and results, having now "tried it both ways", in various different niches.

.

Alexa, I am not disagreeing with anything you said about the merits and benefits of article marketing because I know its factual and you speak from personal experience. But personal experiences and conclusions themselves can vary depending on the methods/ sources one employs to gain traffic and thereby the type, quality and mix of traffic one receives as a result. The conclusions you draw are true for you because you receive traffic both from your article marketing efforts as well as from the search engines due to which you make a comparison between the two as to their efficacy in terms of quality and conversion.

As you said, 20% of your traffic is from search engines (you may have inadvertently overstated it by calling it "floods of search-engine traffic" :-) ) which makes up 2% of your income. Conversely, 98% of your income is from 80% of your traffic which is from article marketing. The reasons for the predominantly larger share of income from article marketing are in my analysis the following:

1) The vast majority of your traffic (i.e. 80%) is article marketing traffic. (If income generation across traffic sources were uniformly distributed, it should have contributed 80% of your income. But it is 98% in your case which brings me to reason nos 2 and 3 below)
2) Articles establish credibility and trust in the reader and help in establishing you as an authority in the field whom they can look up to for advice and help resulting in better converting traffic.
3) Not prominently displaying review articles on your sites makes you appear less salesy and further reinforces credibility and trust.

While there is indeed a lot to take away from your overall approach and style of marketing, I would still say it makes sense not to neglect targeted search engine traffic. I would advocate having both general articles as well as review articles on site (BTW, that automatically helps make the review articles appear less prominent too) to cater to either forms of traffic.

Thanks

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Brent Stangel

9 years ago

But what is the difference finally? I have no clue, so need help please...

Since no one else actually answered...

Here's my opinion:

A review is when you say, "I've used this and here is my experience."

A pre-sell is when you say, "This is what it is and is reported to do."

Thanks

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