Company Fined $300,000 For Posting Fake Reviews Online

55 replies
I know a lot of Warriors have review sites, and there have been previous discussions here about the morality and legality of creating "product review" pages which essentially are just endorsement links to affiliate products.

This cosmetic surgery company was fined $300,000 for posting fake reviews:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/15/te...et/15lift.html

Here are a couple of quotes from the article:
New York's attorney general, said in a statement that Lifestyle Lift's "attempt to generate business by duping consumers was cynical, manipulative and illegal."

"Lifestyle Lift said in a statement that it 'regrets that earlier third-party Web site content did not always properly reflect and acknowledge patient comments or indicate that the content was provided by Lifestyle Lift."

Discuss.
#$300 #company #fake #fined #illegal #online #posting #reviews
  • Profile picture of the author WritingMadwoman
    There have been rumors that they are cracking down, and this is a good example and I'm sure it's just the beginning. Having your employees pose as satisfied clients for something as serious as cosmetic surgery - I can't really feel sorry that they got fined! :rolleyes:

    Wendy
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    • Profile picture of the author Keithp
      Good!!! I hope it is a trend!
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      • Profile picture of the author Marty S
        "The company had ordered employees to pretend they were satisfied customers and write glowing reviews of its face-lift procedure on Web sites, according to the attorney general's statement."

        Well there is reviewing, and then there is outright lying. Shame on them.
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        • Profile picture of the author Truffle
          Originally Posted by Marty S View Post

          "The company had ordered employees to pretend they were satisfied customers and write glowing reviews of its face-lift procedure on Web sites, according to the attorney general's statement."

          Well there is reviewing, and then there is outright lying. Shame on them.
          Exactly, reviewing is stating the facts and benefits of a certain product and provide real customer feedback as well.

          Giving out false customer feedback is fraud my opinion and that fine should've been a lot more severe + jailtime for those employees and even more severe for the business owners

          goes to show that you can't go with that company anymore, they don't have any real satisfied customers so they make them up.

          Stuff like that pisses me off, lousy wanna-be business-people ....
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  • Profile picture of the author Shaka
    Thank you for alerting us to this information. I learned many years ago, from my direct marketing days, to always maintain written copies of endorsement letters in the company file and to make sure they are legit.

    Back then people were caught posting fake testimonials and the FTC and some local authorities took the bigger scammers to task for it. Hopefully your posting will help keep warriors out of review/testimonial trouble with enforcement authorities.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
    This is a bit different that what most IMers do when it comes to review sites, and I'm glad that they were taken to task for it.
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    • Profile picture of the author nebraska
      If you research a product and write the review yourself, you should be ok. There are a lot of people with either scraped content as reviews or reviews. Google is cracking down on them if they're blatantly not doing an actual review for sure.
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  • So copying reviews from Amazon and other online retail sites is Taboo? I have seen quite a few WSO's over the past six months that stress getting real reviews, but getting them from other sites. Technically, those types of reviews are not fake, just not unique. Right?

    Discuss...
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by Marty S View Post

      "The company had ordered employees to pretend they were satisfied customers and write glowing reviews of its face-lift procedure on Web sites, according to the attorney general's statement."

      Well there is reviewing, and then there is outright lying. Shame on them.
      And the difference between posting glowing reviews because your boss tells you to do it, and posting glowing reviews of a product that you've never seen in the hopes of getting a commission is...?

      Originally Posted by Steven Carl Kelly View Post

      This is a bit different that what most IMers do when it comes to review sites, and I'm glad that they were taken to task for it.
      I'm glad they got nailed, too. I still don't see the difference between lying to keep a paycheck and lying to try to get one, though...

      Originally Posted by Charles Montgomery View Post

      So copying reviews from Amazon and other online retail sites is Taboo? I have seen quite a few WSO's over the past six months that stress getting real reviews, but getting them from other sites. Technically, those types of reviews are not fake, just not unique. Right?
      Pulling reviews and comments from multiple sources is fine in my book as long as you're transparent about the source of the information. When you copy and paste those comments out of context and post them as new material, without attribution, you're being deceptive.

      Collecting actual customer reviews from multiple sources and summarizing them is providing a useful service for page visitors even if you have no direct experience with the product yourself.
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      • Profile picture of the author Marty S
        Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

        And the difference between posting glowing reviews because your boss tells you to do it, and posting glowing reviews of a product that you've never seen in the hopes of getting a commission is...?
        I have a highly rated review site and have never reviewed a product using either of these strategies. That is the difference.
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      • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
        Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

        Pulling reviews and comments from multiple sources is fine in my book as long as you're transparent about the source of the information. When you copy and paste those comments out of context and post them as new material, without attribution, you're being deceptive.
        If I setup a page selling the howling moon shirt as an affiliate or not and use the reviews from Amazon for the SAME product and I dont tell them they are from Amazon, it's not deceptive. The reviews are for the product. BUT it could be a copyright violation.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sven Schoene
    [DELETED]
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    • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
      And the difference between posting glowing reviews because your boss tells you to do it, and posting glowing reviews of a product that you've never seen in the hopes of getting a commission is...?
      If you review a product you have never seen, then it is lying, plain and simple.

      Someone I know posts nice reviews on Amazon of books she's never read. Maybe to win brownie points with the authors? Whatever her motivation, that's wrong and most authors I know would not be happy to find out about it.

      Marcia Yudkin
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        I've seen quite a few new products promoted where there are multiple site results, positive reviews, recommendations, claims of profit from use or ease of use, on and on....where every site can be traced directly back to the person who launched the product.

        The sites/blogs/reviews often use different pen names and may fill the first full page or two of google results....and sometimes those pen names are also "testimonials" on the sales page. If I were doing this type of "marketing", I'd be folding up the tent right about now.

        I don't think there is much risk for affiliates who are writing review style sites or landing pages, but there might be a risk for sellers marketing with multiple personalities.

        kay
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  • Profile picture of the author ADAMw3
    This was coming for a long time... but until someone around here gets busted, I doubt affiliates will stop writing review pages. Additionally, how can they differentiate the people who are giving actual reviews from the people who are making them up?
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  • Profile picture of the author Matt Helphrey
    Wow! $300,000 is no small fee. So much for trying to earn an easy buck...cheaters
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  • Profile picture of the author tommygadget
    $300K is a drop in the bucket. Just the cost of doing business for them. Like the spammers who bomb out email inboxes and make $100 million dollars and pay $5 million in fines.

    TomG.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kevin AKA Hubcap
      Like this is anything new. There are numerous reviews in print media that are biased towards their biggest advertisers....

      but passing off employees as customers is wrong.
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  • Profile picture of the author homebasedmom
    Bad Karma. That's what you get when you cheat.
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  • Profile picture of the author Raiel Schwartz
    About time. I think "review" sites which are just product endorsements with affiliate links are long due for an overhaul.

    A lot of people talk about "giving value" to your visitors and customers, but with review style websites, unless you actually PURCHASED the content or REVIEWED the material, you shouldn't be offering your opinion on it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kevin Koop
    While I appreciate Tim posting this info, it's important to keep a proper perspective.

    There is nothing wrong with creating review sites and they are still a very viable vehicle for affiliate marketing.

    This "news" just highlights something that should be obvious... it's important to be honest in your marketing. This adds protection from legal troubles, frequently increases conversions as many can sense your honesty and provides for better sleep (for me, at least ;- ).
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  • Profile picture of the author geolt7
    I think this case is particularly serious due to the impact it has on the consumer. The company obvious do not have regard for the safety and wellbeing of her customers and must be penalized.
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  • Profile picture of the author webatomic
    Let's hope this spreads to the Web Hosting industry!
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  • Profile picture of the author davemiz
    seems like they were posting fake reviews on OTHER websites.... little different than flogs or review sites regular affiliates setup.
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  • Profile picture of the author Troy_Phillips
    I always buy a product before I review it . Well actually some of the warriors on here have given me a copy to review so I guess I should say I have used the product before I review it .

    While I usually don't do many review sites ... a lot of my reviews are directly to my list . I love list members . Give them a raving review for a crap product and they have no problem calling you out on it .
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
    It definitely would have been much cheaper to give every employee and their families a free face lift and take those reviews instead of being fined $300,000.

    With that kind of scratch they could have pulled off a Time-Square (Gary Halbert) type of promotion.

    Mike Hill
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    • Profile picture of the author Angela V. Edwards
      Originally Posted by Mike Hill View Post

      It definitely would have been much cheaper to give every employee and their families a free face lift and take those reviews instead of being fined $300,000.

      With that kind of scratch they could have pulled off a Time-Square (Gary Halbert) type of promotion.

      Mike Hill
      Yeah, or they could have advertised in the local paper that they'd do 5 free facelifts or something like that if the folks who got them would give honest feedback at the end. I'm sure they would sign ups for something like that.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jon Steel
    they will learn from this ... everyone who does this should -

    js
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    • Profile picture of the author clbeav
      Just an example that when you cheat to make money, you better be prepared for the repercussions. I'm won't shed a tear for them, they deserved it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
    Glad to see someone (finally) taking actions against fake reviews. One thing that crossed my mind while reading this is how are they going to track website owners outside US...?
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  • Profile picture of the author russellprisco
    Forgive me if I repeat anyone... I didn't read ALL of the posts... but I think the main difference is that they were more or less falsifying numerous testimonials of sorts as opposed to giving one main opinion (or review) on the company's behalf.

    There's nothing wrong with giving a review on 1 or more products...

    Hefty fine though... phew... glad it wasn't me =P

    ~Russell Prisco =)
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
      Originally Posted by russellprisco View Post

      Forgive me if I repeat anyone... I didn't read ALL of the posts... but I think the main difference is that they were more or less falsifying numerous testimonials of sorts as opposed to giving one main opinion (or review) on the company's behalf.

      There's nothing wrong with giving a review on 1 or more products...
      Correct, that is the distinction. It is one thing for me to write a review on my own site about a product and to either recommend or not recommend it even if I haven't actually tried the product (unless I said that I had) and it is quite another to misrepresent yourself as the recipient of a service like cosmetic surgery and to then go to OTHER sites, posing as a surgical patient, and post glowing reports on the quality of a surgery you never received.

      Also, regarding Amazon reviews:

      If you are part of the Amazon affiliate program, you have access to Amazon product data, including reviews. In fact, they are accessible through Amazon's API. Using those reviews are allowable under the Amazon affiliate program TOS, unless I am mistaken.
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  • Profile picture of the author AndyCamden
    Wow! Sometimes those things happen.
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  • Profile picture of the author ChrisBa
    Looks like finally people are accountable for what they say and claim
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    • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
      It is one thing for me to write a review on my own site about a product and to either recommend or not recommend it even if I haven't actually tried the product (unless I said that I had)
      I'm sorry, but I don't understand this.

      Of course it is possible to have a description of a product you haven't tried (you use copy provided by the manufacturer). However, how is it possible to write a review of a product you have not tried?

      If it is presented or labeled as a review, doesn't that imply that you have tried it?

      How can you give a valid opinion of a product you have not tried?

      I am having trouble understanding how that can be done in a non-deceptive way. Whether or not you explicitly say you have tried it, if you endorse it (as opposed to simply describing it), aren't you implying this opinion is based on personal experience?

      Marcia Yudkin
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
        Originally Posted by marciayudkin View Post

        I'm sorry, but I don't understand this.

        Of course it is possible to have a description of a product you haven't tried (you use copy provided by the manufacturer). However, how is it possible to write a review of a product you have not tried?

        If it is presented or labeled as a review, doesn't that imply that you have tried it?

        How can you give a valid opinion of a product you have not tried?

        I am having trouble understanding how that can be done in a non-deceptive way. Whether or not you explicitly say you have tried it, if you endorse it (as opposed to simply describing it), aren't you implying this opinion is based on personal experience?
        First, understand that I would never, ever say that I've used a product that I hadn't. In fact, if I wrote a personal "review" of a product and I hadn't used it, I would state explicitly that in the review. To do otherwise is unethical, potentially illegal, and just bad business.

        That being said, there are a number of ways to provide review-like information on a product (although some might argue that these aren't technically "reviews"):

        - I can review the product information and offer my opinion on what the product is promising and the relative cost ("Though I haven't purchased this product, in my opinion the price seems very reasonable for the benefits being offered. If this product actually delivers what it says..");

        - I can review the product's Web site and related materials ("I've taken a close look at the site and decided against purchasing this product based on...");

        - I can gather information about the product from around the Web and provide information about my findings as a form of "review" ("In trying to find information about this product, I found a number of articles from several well-known figures in the PPC and the consensus appears to be...").

        Of course for some, these aren't the hard-edged "buy this" that they're looking for to make big conversions. But again, I would never, ever write an actual, personal, substantive review of a product that I hadn't used).
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        • Profile picture of the author davemiz
          i agree with everyone but it seems like what they were busted for is all together different than having a "flog"....
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          • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
            Originally Posted by davemiz View Post

            i agree with everyone but it seems like what they were busted for is all together different than having a "flog"....
            In other words, lying on someone else's blog is wrong, but lying on your own blog is okay?:confused:
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  • Profile picture of the author marciayudkin
    - I can review the product information and offer my opinion on what the product is promising and the relative cost ("Though I haven't purchased this product, in my opinion the price seems very reasonable for the benefits being offered. If this product actually delivers what it says..");

    - I can review the product's Web site and related materials ("I've taken a close look at the site and decided against purchasing this product based on...");

    - I can gather information about the product from around the Web and provide information about my findings as a form of "review" ("In trying to find information about this product, I found a number of articles from several well-known figures in the PPC and the consensus appears to be...").
    Thank you, these are interesting examples. I'm wondering, though, what the value is to your reader of these sorts of comments. Or is the point just to rack up some search engine credits or links? I'm a little lost about why you would do this, what you're really contributing to the conversation about this product and why someone should find value in reading something like this.

    Marcia Yudkin
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    • Profile picture of the author davemiz
      JohnMcCabe

      dude, where the hell did you get that from? cmon man.... dont put words in someones mouth.

      not cool.

      they were busted not because of the flogs.... those things are everywhere... they really got the hammer because they did it on other sites with fake reviews.

      thats what i was saying.
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Originally Posted by davemiz View Post

        JohnMcCabe

        dude, where the hell did you get that from? cmon man.... dont put words in someones mouth.

        not cool.

        they were busted not because of the flogs.... those things are everywhere... they really got the hammer because they did it on other sites with fake reviews.

        thats what i was saying.
        And I was saying that I don't see a moral difference between "flogs" posting fake reviews on a site they may own and posting fake reviews on someone else's site.

        What is a "flog" anyway? It's a phony blog posting imaginary positive experiences for the purpose of making sales.

        What did these people do? They posted imaginary positive experiences for the purpose of making sales.

        Tomato, tomahto, my friend...
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  • Profile picture of the author yves
    I have a landing page that basically highlights the benefit of the product I am promoting and how it can help someone with a specific problem and tell them what the product includes. I also included 2 or 3 testimonials from the clickbank sales page because they were actually brilliant.

    I did a lot of research on this product and hold the vendor in high regard. He gives his affilates a lot of promotional stuff and helps out a lot. The product has very little refunds and sells very well. I have not tested the product for myself but havn't professed to do, do you think I should take it down?

    I'm a bit worried now.

    Yves
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  • Profile picture of the author dsmpublishing
    I think its about time that they are doing something about it - ive seen lots of fake reviews by internet marketers on the net and maybe this will help improve the situation for others.

    kind regards

    sam
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  • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
    What if someone put up a sales letter with a "flog" format?

    The reviews are comments, the heading is the subject, etc.

    Do you see a difference? It still might confuse people but some people are confused about everything.
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by GarrieWilson View Post

      What if someone put up a sales letter with a "flog" format?

      The reviews are comments, the heading is the subject, etc.

      Do you see a difference? It still might confuse people but some people are confused about everything.
      Why use the "flog" format for a sales letter unless the intent is to confuse and deceive people?

      A lot of folks here are trying hard to find shades of gray in a black and white issue. Especially when you're messing around with someone's health.

      A few years ago, my wife's mother lost her battle with Parkinson's. During that battle, my wife and I spent a lot of time trying to research what the doctors were telling us.

      Now, I knew better and my wife is a natural skeptic when it comes to stuff on the Internet. Were it otherwise, we could have been badly misled by information posted online just to make a buck.

      "It's only a flog. Lots of people do it. It's not like I lied on someone else's site by posting a phony review. That's not the same as promoting an ebook I haven't read and offering phony testimonials so desperate people will buy the book and I make a quick buck. I mean, I need the money."

      Now before anyone else accuses me of putting words in their mouth, nobody actually said that. Most who seemed to condone flogging for dollars try to spin it so it doesn't seem so bad.

      In my opinion, that fine should have been accompanied by jail time for the people who came up with the scheme and forced it on their employees.

      And, he said to no one in particular, if you're so deep in the shit you have to pull that kind of shenanigan to eat, at least do it head on. Have the huevos (or ovaries) to look yourself in the mirror and own up to it.
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      • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
        Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

        Why use the "flog" format for a sales letter unless the intent is to confuse and deceive people?
        A flog sales letter might put them more at ease. Is that a bad thing? To me, its no different than color, fonts, layouts, etc. to do the same thing.

        Now the "news" format I do have issues with.

        I am also talking about using 100% true information.

        In my opinion, that fine should have been accompanied by jail time for the people who came up with the scheme and forced it on their employees.
        They where not forced and IMHO are just as guilty.

        -g
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        • Profile picture of the author John Durham
          I hope it levels the playing field. When there are no rules unethical people, who are willing to stoop to any level, win.
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        • Profile picture of the author Andy LaPointe
          Truth in advertising has come to the Internet. IM'ers are giving up long term gain for ST products.
          This is a bad trend for small unknown companies since consumers will believe small unproven companies are "falsely" promoting thier products.
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          • Profile picture of the author davemiz
            here's an interesting question for you....

            what about TV ads? they're using paid actors as 'testimonials'.... like the bowflex commercials.... theres a muscle & fitness cover model in it, and a former mrs olympia..... isn't that sorta deceptive as well?
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            • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
              Originally Posted by davemiz View Post

              here's an interesting question for you....

              what about TV ads? they're using paid actors as 'testimonials'.... like the bowflex commercials.... theres a muscle & fitness cover model in it, and a former mrs olympia..... isn't that sorta deceptive as well?
              Most have small print saying that and some even have a voice over on the infomercials at the beginning saying so.
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      • Profile picture of the author davemiz
        lol.... i agreed with the comments. When you read some of the comments its easy to see these people didn't 'get' why they got busted.

        They got busted for posting fake reviews on other sites, (which probably get TONS of traffic and are very visible) they didn't get busted because they send ppc traffic to flogs. (which are what most people do, its really annoying, but they work like crazy, go figure).

        thats all i said.
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        • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
          Originally Posted by GarrieWilson View Post

          A flog sales letter might put them more at ease. Is that a bad thing? To me, its no different than color, fonts, layouts, etc. to do the same thing.

          Now the "news" format I do have issues with.

          I am also talking about using 100% true information.

          If part of that 100% true information is a disclosure of the affiliate relationship, fine. Otherwise, you have to consider the difference between "putting them more at ease" and suckering them in.

          They where not forced and IMHO are just as guilty.

          -g
          If in truth they were not forced, then they are just as guilty and should do some time along with their bosses.
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  • Profile picture of the author viralim
    No matter how you look at it, it's false advertising. Fake reviews/testimonials is just one aspect of it.
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  • Profile picture of the author rontoski
    Tim,
    Somehow I don't think this is the same type reviews we have been seeing in our market. This seemed to be outright fraud and deception. It was also getting others to do their dirty work. Probably a fine line, but different.
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    • Profile picture of the author kel
      This practice of fake reviews has worried me for years as has the practice of a lot of Internet Marketers to just straight out lie, not only about their income but who they are. Ive seen one middle aged guy pretending to be a young teenage girl with acne problems so he could flog his affiliate-linked remedy to that market. If you've got to stoop to those lows, I reckon you're better off getting into another profession - how about selling cars or real estate?
      cheers
      Graham
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  • Profile picture of the author reedcopywriting
    I think that this is a good thing... when people scam customers it gives us all a bad name!
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