Do you feel TROLLS are ruining wso's

by marlon
62 replies
Hi,

I don't run hardly any wsos. But I have been a
member of Warriors pretty much since month 1.

But some of my friends are very respected and
reputable people and they do and have.

They tell me they are not running wso's anymore
or hate running them because the trolls are getting
worse at trolling..and there aren't sufficient safeguards
in place.

Do YOU feel this way? Yeah or nay?

Marlon Sanders
#feel #ruining #trolls #wso
  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    It's not just the WSO forum.
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    • Profile picture of the author marlon
      Is it happening in threads also?

      The thing is, SOME of that is ok....I think people have the right
      to express opinions.

      But when it's blatant and deliberate trolling, it's people trying to RUN OFF
      the established members in hopes of making themselves on top.

      And to allow noise like that in a forum TO ME in the end chases off the
      the people contributing and creating VALUE.

      Anyone can criticize and tear down to build themselves up.

      But I wonder if OTHERS feel the same way or not?

      Marlon
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      • Profile picture of the author discrat
        Originally Posted by marlon View Post


        Anyone can criticize and tear down to build themselves up.

        But I wonder if OTHERS feel the same way or not?

        Marlon
        1.Y
        2.E
        3.S

        And speak of the devil LOL
        See a few on here
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    • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

      It's not just the WSO forum.
      As of now the main forum isn't looking too great.
      There's one answering just about every thread on page one with one liners
      just to get it's sig file seen,
      and another bumping every thread about squeeze pages going back to the year dot.
      Not a lot of hope.
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  • Profile picture of the author focusedlife
    @Marlon (wow-I didn't know you surfed these threads...smart recon) - I think its a cycle.

    Once you find a hot place to make money, those that would abuse it (and therefore should be called out) piss off the hyper-active, greed based buyers, who find out the wso may not deliver what it promised...

    Others that can offer value are lumped in and get chewed out equally bad.

    Still...you gotta decide if you're willing to whether that storm and either get the good ones or let the bad ones getcha.

    I like how Sean Mize tends to handle this.

    Watcha think?

    Are you thinking about running a WSO anytime soon?

    Regards,

    Los
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  • Profile picture of the author DubDubDubDot
    The offer and your replies should stand taller than the trolls if you've got something solid.

    I would say that your "respected and reputable" friends are probably less than what you perceive them to be if forum trolls are capable of derailing their hustle.
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  • Profile picture of the author Waywardaussie
    Yeah I feel they are ruining it for the legit guys, a few scams would be on some wso"s?
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  • The reviews should speak otherwise. Or does this not happen? Im new here
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  • Your on a forum, that's what people do they nit pick anything, I hate it but no one cares nitpickers do negative things for the sake of doing it. Why? I have no idea I guess it's in their nature.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Krone
      Originally Posted by HelpingYouBeAnExpert View Post

      Your on a forum, that's what people do they nit pick anything, I hate it but no one cares nitpickers do negative things for the sake of doing it. Why? I have no idea I guess it's in their nature.
      I find the OLD GUARD is threatened by the NEW GUARD. That's where much of it comes from. Just old lions trying to defend their turf from the young hungry lions. Sour grapes is another way to see it imho.

      Some people are terrified of change, and they attack new ideas. It's been happening since Columbus and Edison. Since Einstein and Jobs.
      John Krone
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  • Profile picture of the author grafx77
    I agree with DubDubDubDot

    If your friends are allowing the trolls to win, that typically means they just weren't releasing quality material. If they were, then there are certain ways to handle these nuisances, like handling the issue/grievance with positivity and actually trying to help instead of turning things into a mud throwing competition.

    On the other hand....I believe there is only so much you can expect from a $5 WSO for example and if they want to nitpick and complain about a WSO when they have less than 20 posts to their name, well anyone who takes their opinion as fact should probably not be purchasing your WSO in the first place. You could almost see this as "quality control" ;-)
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  • Profile picture of the author oda
    It doesn't matter what you do there will always be that 1% of F-wits that get their kicks ruining other people's days.

    Myself and my mates see the trolls as a bit of fun and we poke back. If handled the right way they can actually enhance your post by if nothing else creating a laugh.

    If trolls are stopping people launching then I would say there are some other more deep seated reasons at play here.

    ODA
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  • When you bottom feed, and that is what this forum is about, then you collect the worst type of customers/leads.

    I only launched two WSOs in my life. I made 28k and 71k respectively within 48 hours of posting. But the amount of hassle and pain from this crowd was not worth it, so I never WSO'ed again.

    Tell your friends to move up the ladder and most trolls disappear because you will be targettjng real business people instead of newbies, day dreamers and other bottom feeders. Plus the money is better too.
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  • Profile picture of the author Adam Hartwick
    It happens in most forums.... People like to be "heard" and love to see someone "fall".... I hate it when its being done just for pure troll-sake... but the fear of forum ridicule may also keep people from launching crap products...
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    • Originally Posted by Adam Hartwick View Post

      It happens in most forums.... People like to be "heard" and love to see someone "fall".... I hate it when its being done just for pure troll-sake... but the fear of forum ridicule may also keep people from launching crap products...
      Hey dude wake up why is bad new what the 99% love and it's all war, shooting, murder and riots? They love negative stuff the nice guy alway looses and always will. Just wake up! The truth will set you fee just realize the true world you live in.
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      soon people... Relax...
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      • Profile picture of the author niles
        It seems that most of the emails that I get promoting WSOs are self hosted. I am guessing this is to avoid poor reviews and trolls. The only bad part about this is that you don't get any real reviews.

        However, I can certainly see way they do it.

        Niles Miller
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  • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
    I don't think the trolls are as a big of a problem as the awful offers.

    The 'S' should have been dropped from the WSO section several years ago.
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  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
    What I find sooo interesting is that the majority of people posting in this thread do not recognize that the OP is one of the very first marketing superstars of the Internet. Amazing. I can guarantee that would not have been the case here just a few years ago.
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Shook
      Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

      What I find sooo interesting is that the majority of people posting in this thread do not recognize that the OP is one of the very first marketing superstars of the Internet. Amazing. I can guarantee that would not have been the case here just a few years ago.
      Of all the stuff I've bought over the years, Marlon's Dashboards are some of the top products.

      It has been my experience that most organizations have life cycles. Peaks and valleys, lots of business, or droughts.

      I have met some great people here recently, formed some great new relationships; . . .but, the overall atmosphere is different somehow. Its hard to put a finger on the exact quality, but it feels kind of like Friendster or MySpace or Squidoo when they were sliding downhill.

      I am hoping the WF will come back, I believe that is possible.
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      • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Michael Shook View Post

        I am hoping the WF will come back, I believe that is possible.
        My own feeling is that if it is still possible, this has to be just about the last point at which it's possible.

        Encouraging though it is to see Marlon posting, most of the longstanding members have gone. Traffic is at an all-time low. In another 2-3 months, without the dramatic changes in the forum's moderation policies that so many of the (few!) remaining longstanding members have been clamoring for, so consistently, and for so many months, it will no longer even be possible at all. I don't really know whether it is, now.

        It may be, though, that the new owners don't mind that. As discussed in so many other threads, they seem to have their heads in the sand, but it is their sand: they did buy it, after all.


        .
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        • Profile picture of the author Michael Shook
          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

          My own feeling is that if it is still possible, this has to be just about the last point at which it's possible.

          Encouraging though it is to see Marlon posting, most of the longstanding members have gone. Traffic is at an all-time low. In another 2-3 months, without the dramatic changes in the forum's moderation policies that so many of the (few!) remaining longstanding members have been clamoring for, so consistently, and for so many months, it will no longer even be possible at all. I don't really know whether it is, now.

          It may be, though, that the new owners don't mind that. As discussed in so many other threads, they seem to have their heads in the sand, but it is their sand: they did buy it, after all.


          .
          Without knowing anything about the ins and outs, and only guessing from my background in OD, I would say, the WF is going to change substantially. All indications right now are that for the most part the pioneer element has moved on and now the shopkeepers are in charge.

          This isn't necessarily a bad thing for the organization as a whole, but it means the pioneer type people no longer fit and wind up editing themselves out.

          No lock on this as a sure thing, but I have lived it enough times that this feels similar.
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        • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

          without the dramatic changes in the forum's moderation policies that so many of the (few!) remaining longstanding members have been clamoring for, so consistently, and for so many months, it will no longer even be possible at all.
          Some of the members must take some of the blame too.
          Despite the trolls asking the same questions day after day,
          there are still some that still feel the need to answer every one,
          just to get themselves and their sig files seen.
          If the trolls weren't fed they would starve.
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          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            They tell me they are not running wso's anymore
            or hate running them because the trolls are getting
            worse at trolling..and there aren't sufficient safeguards
            in place.
            Good example was a WSO posted yesterday. Very long sales copy - totally descriptive - clearly tells what is included.

            So far - three questions have been asked in the WSO thread....

            1. any review copies?
            2. is customer service good?
            3. is there any OTO?

            Do you think these are potential buyers? Of course not - but it's typical of "participation" in WSO threads now.
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            • Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

              Good example was a WSO posted yesterday. Very long sales copy - totally descriptive - clearly tells what is included.

              So far - three questions have been asked in the WSO thread....

              1. any review copies?
              2. is customer service good?
              3. is there any OTO?

              Do you think these are potential buyers? Of course not - but it's typical of "participation" in WSO threads now.
              Maybe I am too new to jump into this discussion, but why are those 3 questions trolling? Those (to me) are legitimate questions, I would want to know before starting down the WSO sales funnel.

              -CG
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              • Profile picture of the author boydstone
                Originally Posted by Charles Goodnight View Post

                Maybe I am too new to jump into this discussion, but why are those 3 questions trolling? Those (to me) are legitimate questions, I would want to know before starting down the WSO sales funnel.

                -CG
                Hi,

                You're definitely NOT too new to contribute. I think there are people who started learning IM in 2014 who are already calling themselves gurus and selling $5000 seminars. Religion and Internet Marketing attract a lot of sociopaths. Personally, I've been on the IM scene since Bill's first board in 1995, and I'm still a student.

                As to those three questions, the one about customer service means, I think, "Are you quick to give out refunds to freebie seekers?" The "Will you give me a free review copy" question is not allowed by the rules and indicates a freebie seeker. The OTO question, to me, is legitimate but unnecessary since one can almost assume that there will be numerous upsells, downsells, leftsells, rightsells, and requests to wash the author's car and mow his lawn (just kidding about that last one).
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                • Originally Posted by boydstone View Post

                  As to those three questions, the one about customer service means, I think, "Are you quick to give out refunds to freebie seekers?" The "Will you give me a free review copy" question is not allowed by the rules and indicates a freebie seeker. The OTO question, to me, is legitimate but unnecessary since one can almost assume that there will be numerous upsells, downsells, leftsells, rightsells, and requests to wash the author's car and mow his lawn (just kidding about that last one).
                  Got it. The customer service question is one I didn't think about. I know I have purchased a number wordpress themes and premium plugins for my sites and the customer service was awful. It's kind what I was thinking when reading that question.

                  If a WSO seller has a history of bad customer service, would definitely want to know. If I had known those theme and plugin creators were so bad with follow-up or updating, I would never have bought them.

                  -CG
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                  • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
                    Originally Posted by Charles Goodnight View Post

                    Got it. The customer service question is one I didn't think about. I know I have purchased a number wordpress themes and premium plugins for my sites and the customer service was awful. It's kind what I was thinking when reading that question.

                    If a WSO seller has a history of bad customer service, would definitely want to know. If I had known those theme and plugin creators were so bad with follow-up or updating, I would never have bought them.

                    -CG
                    I'd tend to agree with boydstone on two points. As for the OTO there is absolutely no reason I can see for that question. There is or there isn't. You want it and buy it or you don't.

                    Some of the responsibility for avoiding trolls is to make everything plain in the offer but these days that doesn't work so well because there are lots of people that won't bother to read the offer.

                    I had a successful WSO last year that got derailed by comments. These weren't trolls. They were people that had trouble following instructions. More than 90 people bought the offer and downloaded it without problems. A handful, maybe six or seven "didn't get the download link." There was no download link. There was a huge message below the buy button in a LARGE font that explained they'd be directed to the download after paying.

                    But somehow they didn't see the message. And they came to the thread and complained that they didn't get the mysterious download link. Then other people came to the thread and commented that they'd like to buy the offer but there was obviously a problem getting the product. By this time I had copied the download instructions and pasted them into a post in the thread. Didn't help.

                    I was forced to shut down a successful offer. People here these days want everything handed to them. Half the questions asked on the main board can be better answered by a Google search. Many of the answers on this board lately are flat out wrong. These aren't necessarily trolls. They're people looking for sig exposure.

                    But that's what we've got now. Some of it is trolls. Some is just inexperience. So it goes...
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        • Profile picture of the author Khemosabi
          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

          My own feeling is that if it is still possible, this has to be just about the last point at which it's possible.
          ^^ This. <--Learned that from you Alexa! If "it" is still possible, I suppose that establishing the "it" would be a discussion that Freelancer should have with all of the members, especially the longstanding members. Most here, now, have no idea of the value this place once gave. The one's that do.... we are standing by a freshly dug grave and waiting for the dirt to settle.

          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

          Encouraging though it is to see Marlon posting, most of the longstanding members have gone. Traffic is at an all-time low. In another 2-3 months, without the dramatic changes in the forum's moderation policies that so many of the (few!) remaining longstanding members have been clamoring for, so consistently, and for so many months, it will no longer even be possible at all. I don't really know whether it is, now.
          Even the "churn and burn" product makers have moved on Alexa. I know you know this, but I am speaking of the traffic stats. This place reminds me a lot of Webanswers and such now. Post anything, get responses, get noticed. The difference being that Webanswers doesn't allow signatures in answers, just profiles. (I'm not sure if that is still true).
          People, new members, aren't really looking for solutions in their posts. Some are, but it's getting harder to tell! As you have stated above, the few longstanding members left are just frustrated.
          "If your beautiful garden's soil has gone bad, you move your garden. You don't replant".

          Originally Posted by Alexa Smith View Post

          It may be, though, that the new owners don't mind that. As discussed in so many other threads, they seem to have their heads in the sand, but it is their sand: they did buy it, after all.


          .
          You're right Alexa, it is their sand. To me, it's looking more and more like a cat box. The path that Freelancer is taking is quite obvious. I think it is to others as well.
          You and I have spoken before about "emotional investment". When, and if, Freelancer understands that commitment from it's members, this place could flourish once again. If Freelancer treated it's stock holders like they treat the very core of this forum, well, ...........

          ~ Theresa
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  • Profile picture of the author marax
    Sellers are ruining WSOs just as much as trolls
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  • Profile picture of the author Insano
    I think we need some kind of mistery shopper for WSOs (might be an idea for a blog...)
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Shook
      As far as the original poster's question, no I don't think that trolls are ruining the WSO section. I believe it started on its current trend when so many WSO's starting showing up as "How To Make Money With WSO's". That idea plus the one where the seller would need to give away 100 percent of the price as a commission, spelt the end.

      Instead of a simple process of a product that worked great being offered to a select insider group, it wound up being codified and stratified to the point of being frozen in place.

      Once you start an implicit two tier system, like the Clickbank gang or theSyndicate, it is just a matter of time before the entire thing implodes without a steady stream of new people to buy.
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      • Profile picture of the author boydstone
        Originally Posted by Michael Shook View Post


        Instead of a simple process of a product that worked great being offered to a select insider group, it wound up being codified and stratified to the point of being frozen in place.

        Once you start an implicit two tier system, like the Clickbank gang or theSyndicate, it is just a matter of time before the entire thing implodes without a steady stream of new people to buy.
        Can you define some of your terms? Or maybe I'm just too dumb to understand what you're talking about.

        As to Alexa's point, I fear it might be too late. Just today I was wondering if the WF had become the Mos Eisely of the IM forum world.

        As to WSOs, it always surprises me when someone sells a technique as a WSO that we used to share for free on the forums. An example of this is the current one about getting free Udemy courses.

        BTW, it's great to see a post from Mr. Sanders. (I worked for him for a short while a long time ago.)
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        • Profile picture of the author Michael Shook
          Instead of a simple process of a product that worked great being offered to a select insider group, it wound up being codified and stratified to the point of being frozen in place.

          Once you start an implicit two tier system, like the Clickbank gang or the Syndicate, it is just a matter of time before the entire thing implodes without a steady stream of new people to buy.


          Originally Posted by boydstone View Post

          Can you define some of your terms? Or maybe I'm just too dumb to understand what you're talking about.
          Originally, a WSO was to give a special offer to WF members only. Something that nobody else could get - at least at the price it was being offered outside the WF. WSO's rose or fall based on their merit and the quality of the sales copy.

          What wound up happening was that people started creating WSO's just for the sake of WSO's. their original intent of being a sample of the seller's work with the idea of the buyer wanting more of it fell by the wayside.

          But then came along a systematized way to create, promote, and profit from WSO's only as a major profit stream. People offered coaching in WSO creation with groups of fellow coachees who pimped each others WSO's in return for back-pimping.

          Then that idea became the only way any WSO could get any traction at all. Coachees were posting multiple WSO's a day. Hence the rule about having multiple WSO's on the front page.

          Then it became de rigeur for big affiliates to get 100 percent commissions from any WSO seller they promoted. WSO's were promoted in good ole' boy groups similar to the Clickbank gang. Take a look through the major CB products and you will see a remarkable similarity of style of graphics and copy.

          The Syndicate was the name Frank Kern's folks called themselves and others referred to them that way as well. Many of these folks live in San Diego now, where Kern lives.

          Those oligarchical systems live only through a steady supply of newcomers to buy their goods. One reason why many of the big time internet marketers now act as consultants to the personal development people.
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          • Profile picture of the author boydstone
            Originally Posted by Michael Shook View Post


            Those oligarchical systems live only through a steady supply of newcomers to buy their goods. One reason why many of the big time internet marketers now act as consultants to the personal development people.
            Thank you Michael for providing more explanation.

            Also, it's so true that many of the big name coaches are now coaching Coaches. Sean Mize is an example. (Sean Mize fans, I'm not criticizing him, I admire him.)

            Further, I totally agree with what you wrote below:

            Originally Posted by Michael Shook View Post

            In the WF, lots of people relied on superselling or hot potato marketing to make that first sale, then there was nothing behind it except another crappy WSO; but with awesome copy. To a great degree IMO, that is what trashed the WSO section.
            Yep, I almost always feel disappointed upon reading a 10-page, poorly written PDF after getting all excited by the awesome sales letter. Or even worse, having to watch a long, rambling video in which the instructor talks s l o w l y and with a weird accent.
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            • Profile picture of the author Wealthyclark
              Originally Posted by boydstone View Post

              Yep, I almost always feel disappointed upon reading a 10-page, poorly written PDF after getting all excited by the awesome sales letter. Or even worse, having to watch a long, rambling video in which the instructor talks s l o w l y and with a weird accent.
              I've been there, sold on the great copy only to purchase and find a crap product. As far as the instructors slow talking or bad accent, I could really care less if he/she has valuable information to share as promised.

              Just my opinion,
              Wishing you all success and happiness!
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      • Profile picture of the author DubDubDubDot
        Funny how the doom and gloom is coming only from people who sell "make money online" info products.
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      • Profile picture of the author Ron C Farrow
        Originally Posted by Michael Shook View Post

        As far as the original poster's question, no I don't think that trolls are ruining the WSO section. I believe it started on its current trend when so many WSO's starting showing up as "How To Make Money With WSO's". That idea plus the one where the seller would need to give away 100 percent of the price as a commission, spelt the end.

        Instead of a simple process of a product that worked great being offered to a select insider group, it wound up being codified and stratified to the point of being frozen in place.

        Once you start an implicit two tier system, like the Clickbank gang or theSyndicate, it is just a matter of time before the entire thing implodes without a steady stream of new people to buy.
        Sooo true, one of the top names promotes this method exclusively as a list building strategy and its showing in the WSO section. One post asked of a WSO seller, "Interesting, have you tried it?" Answer, "er well no but it should work". that's not Trolling.

        However, another post on a WSO promoting online arbitrage said "oh that old chestnut, its been done to death". That IS Trolling and it must be affecting sales.
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        • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Ron C Farrow View Post

          one of the top names promotes this method exclusively as a list building strategy and its showing in the WSO section. One post asked of a WSO seller, "Interesting, have you tried it?" Answer, "er well no but it should work". that's not Trolling.
          No, it's not "trolling" at all (especially when compared with the other things which can now flourish around here quite untroubled by the forum authorities), but it's still very typical of the direction in which the forum's inexorably moving.

          Originally Posted by Ron C Farrow View Post

          another post on a WSO promoting online arbitrage said "oh that old chestnut, its been done to death". That IS Trolling and it must be affecting sales.
          Yup - that's clearly trolling.

          Negative comments from non-buyers were never previously allowed.

          From Freelancer's perspective, you'd think the (lack of) moderation in there - and even more importantly the forum's now-well-established reputation for that - must be losing a fortune in potential advertising sales-revenue and processing-fees?


          .
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  • Profile picture of the author Freebiequeen1999
    Maybe the wso sellers ruined it themselves


    so many seem to fade away...it is really funny to see the old wso's and jvzoo products that have a link to a grandiious url such as superdupermoneymakingninja and it is "for sale"...kaput, gone in a year


    You can see how many of the threads end in the seller slinking away and not supporting their product/offering or whatever it is


    Crap like "fiverr arbitrage" is a joke. I hate the titles like "watch me" blah blah blah...you are not a rock star. Amazing that people who really do make money and succeed don't come back to troll around for $7


    and trolling....to me that is the people who jump onto forums where they never posted and answer any and all questions with "mobile is where it is at" (mobile wso in sig)...."seo rules" (seo wso in sig)...."you tube is the best place to promote" (you tube wso in sig)


    what fake phony blatant cheap way to advertise. I used to have all sigs turned off cause I find them annoying but I turned them back on and it is funny


    I think the worst do have to be "how to make wso in 24 hours"
    we have people who have never sold a dime on the internet who are putting out wsos,
    it is just joke. I also see people who buy these wso's and decide they will design websites or sell mobile apps - the only problem is they don't know the technical aspect, they have no training or experience


    I also see people who buy a wso and forget that much of the offline ones are bout sales skills...cold calls, walking in the door. "I hate to cold call, I hate to meet with people, I live in another country and don't speak Engish very well, how can I sell to small biz owners in the US"?


    well...duhh....you can't. Sorry if the wso seller made you think you could


    IMHO there are some that are worthwhile and some that may be ok but there is a lot of crap to wade through. I respect those that sell software, plug in , maybe plr stuff, videos, etc, or a whole detailed system. But for every kid that wants to write about "wso domination" or making a fortune on fiverr...give me a break
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    • Profile picture of the author boydstone
      For what it's worth I agree with you. Additionally the WSOs that I value are the few ones that teach skills. And those are the only ones I'm now willing to buy.

      best,

      Boyd

      Originally Posted by Freebiequeen1999 View Post

      Maybe the wso sellers ruined it themselves


      so many seem to fade away...it is really funny to see the old wso's and jvzoo products that have a link to a grandiious url such as superdupermoneymakingninja and it is "for sale"...kaput, gone in a year


      You can see how many of the threads end in the seller slinking away and not supporting their product/offering or whatever it is


      Crap like "fiverr arbitrage" is a joke. I hate the titles like "watch me" blah blah blah...you are not a rock star. Amazing that people who really do make money and succeed don't come back to troll around for $7


      and trolling....to me that is the people who jump onto forums where they never posted and answer any and all questions with "mobile is where it is at" (mobile wso in sig)...."seo rules" (seo wso in sig)...."you tube is the best place to promote" (you tube wso in sig)


      what fake phony blatant cheap way to advertise. I used to have all sigs turned off cause I find them annoying but I turned them back on and it is funny


      I think the worst do have to be "how to make wso in 24 hours"
      we have people who have never sold a dime on the internet who are putting out wsos,
      it is just joke. I also see people who buy these wso's and decide they will design websites or sell mobile apps - the only problem is they don't know the technical aspect, they have no training or experience


      I also see people who buy a wso and forget that much of the offline ones are bout sales skills...cold calls, walking in the door. "I hate to cold call, I hate to meet with people, I live in another country and don't speak Engish very well, how can I sell to small biz owners in the US"?


      well...duhh....you can't. Sorry if the wso seller made you think you could


      IMHO there are some that are worthwhile and some that may be ok but there is a lot of crap to wade through. I respect those that sell software, plug in , maybe plr stuff, videos, etc, or a whole detailed system. But for every kid that wants to write about "wso domination" or making a fortune on fiverr...give me a break
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve B
    Originally Posted by marlon View Post

    They tell me they are not running wso's anymore or hate running them because the trolls are getting worse at trolling..and there aren't sufficient safeguards in place.

    Marlon and others,

    The world of online business moves at a very fast pace and, as you surely have experienced, marketing approaches, tactics, and models follow along. I say "follow" because marketers generally don't truly innovate. They jump on the bandwagon only after the real marketing pioneers lay open their systems and share what's working with the masses.

    Trolls, in my opinion, don't have the right to be lumped in with Internet marketers. They are a class unto themselves. They may want to become marketers, IM wannabees, but they are content to not work at creating a real business . . . they're content to scrutinize, criticize, and bad-mouth the effort of those doing what they themselves refuse to do ----> work.

    Since technology affects business in a very fundamental way, it also affects marketing at its very core. If you're an online marketer, you'd better be adept at observation, business trends, consumer preferences, and your own specific market because CHANGE happens quickly and obsolescence is right on its heels. Products go stale, audiences are fickle, and money only flows through income streams that are at the head of the row.

    Just my 2 cents worth.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeff Casmer
    Hello,

    I would focus on the positive stuff going on in the Warrior Forum and ignore the negativity. Its counterproductive...

    Thanks
    Jeff Casmer
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  • Profile picture of the author seobro
    Trolls are a major issue, Like we do agree. Mods should just ban em. They cause a lot of trouble and bring to the table zero. Established members are going away. Well, this makes me sad, wish it were no so. Bright lights attract bugs for some reason. Maybe what we need to do is wake up. Hope that we become more aggressive. Send trolls back to the bridge.
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  • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
    Perhaps an opportunity for a marketer of Marlon's stature and connections, but it appears the time might be right for a NEW Internet Marketing forum run by a well known master.

    The WF is either right on the course set over the last two years, or has been pushed off by public accountability and answering to shareholders. I don't know which.

    There could be a master plan in place which is working extremely well, and ridding the WF of old timers and such may be part of that plan.

    Or, they could be a brood of free range chickens at dinner time. WE really don't know.

    When I worked at SCI, we shut down one of the first forums because of trolls. I am celebrating 30 years of online marketing, and have seen many forums come and go, in fact, it was a letter from Marlon to SCI which made me quit my job and pursue full time online activity.

    Is WF too big to fail? Hardly.

    But is there a healthy competitor who can offer the best of what the WF does and eliminate the chaff? Not at this time. But, maybe it is worthy of consideration.

    gjabiz
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  • Profile picture of the author John Pagulayan
    Low quality WSOs are what's ruining WSOs.
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

      What I find sooo interesting is that the majority of people posting in this thread do not recognize that the OP is one of the very first marketing superstars of the Internet. Amazing. I can guarantee that would not have been the case here just a few years ago.
      I just pray and hope Marlon is not run off like Willie was a couple of months ago
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      • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
        Originally Posted by discrat View Post

        I just pray and hope Marlon is not run off like Willie was a couple of months ago
        Well, Willie can certainly speak for himself, but I doubt he was "run off"... he has chosen to be less active, much less. Like many of the older voices that once populated the WF, they don't have the time (nor make it) to fiddle-fudge around with responding to and/or answering questions which have been answered ad infinitum.

        There is in almost all activity a point of diminishing returns, when we lose interest, things become less fun, we pursue other activities.

        Older Warriors who once were regular contributors have, in my OPINION, reached that threshold. Plus it had a central personality which guided things, today there is not a "voice" at WF.

        WSO's? I don't know about, bought two or three, ran a couple back when it was a discount from your public pricing, but have never thought of them as a part of a bigger strategy.

        So no one has been run off ( a few have been banned, but even permanent bans seem to be less than permanent)... we all get to choose if we want to be here and how we want to participate.

        gjabiz
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  • Profile picture of the author Tim Franklin
    I can see both sides of this question, while I do understand the need for some, to sort of try, to expose what they see as a bad WSO, I can also see how these sellers hate seeing ultra negative posts.

    There are some valid criticisms and a lot of these WSO sales are on the IFY side at best and in some cases should not be offered for sale, but having said that, a thread should have a space for those types of comments. (Not saying you should exclude critical reviews at all) but I think they have their place, there are way too many suspect reviews, which are not really reviews at all.

    There are some sales that clearly were pirated from another sales platform, (they fixed that problem) and to be honest you cant expect every WSO sales to be verified, though that would be an upgrade I would pay to get.

    Things have changed over the years, I got here in 1999, left in 2003, came back in 2006, there were bad products being sold back then and will likely continue to happen, you just have to ask yourself, a few questions and make a cautious decision.

    I think there is room for improvement, if you silence the valid critic, then you risk exposing innocent buyers to bad products, but also you should have a valid method of handling those that engage in malicious commenting.

    There are always methods to make it fair for everyone, while stimulating growth of the marketplace. Something to think about.
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  • Profile picture of the author hilear
    If you are going to base your business on what trolls say then you have lost the game and should not quit. Provide quality material and good customer service and you will build a strong business.

    Trolls are everywhere. Try putting up some popular YT videos and see what kind of comments there are there. Trolls are everywhere.
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael Shook
      Originally Posted by hilear View Post

      If you are going to base your business on what trolls say then you have lost the game and should not quit. Provide quality material and good customer service and you will build a strong business.

      Trolls are everywhere. Try putting up some popular YT videos and see what kind of comments there are there. Trolls are everywhere.
      Yes, you need to provide quality goods or services in a quality, but this is not what makes the initial sale. Your rep is only good after the first sale, before that you must rely on your marcomm to entice people to buy.

      In the WF, lots of people relied on superselling or hot potato marketing to make that first sale, then there was nothing behind it except another crappy WSO; but with awesome copy. To a great degree IMO, that is what trashed the WSO section.
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    • Profile picture of the author travlinguy
      Originally Posted by hilear View Post

      If you are going to base your business on what trolls say then you have lost the game and should not quit. Provide quality material and good customer service and you will build a strong business.

      Trolls are everywhere. Try putting up some popular YT videos and see what kind of comments there are there. Trolls are everywhere.
      Trolls are everywhere. Yes. But when you PAY FOR ADVERTISING you should not have to put up with that nonsense.
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      • Profile picture of the author Freebiequeen1999
        Originally Posted by travlinguy View Post

        Trolls are everywhere. Yes. But when you PAY FOR ADVERTISING you should not have to put up with that nonsense.
        You can PAY for a banner ad on this forum, no feedback

        People should be able to ask questions

        Sellers who are only selling a non tested, non proven theory? I think people have a right to know
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        • Profile picture of the author James Campbell
          Originally Posted by Freebiequeen1999 View Post

          You can PAY for a banner ad on this forum, no feedback

          People should be able to ask questions

          Sellers who are only selling a non tested, non proven theory? I think people have a right to know

          Apparently you missed the point. He is in no way saying people shouldn't be able to ask questions. He is saying they shouldn't be able to troll sellers with BS comments and BS leading questions that are meant to insinuate something negative about the seller and/or their product offer.
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          • Profile picture of the author Freebiequeen1999
            Originally Posted by James Campbell View Post

            Apparently you missed the point. He is in no way saying people shouldn't be able to ask questions. He is saying they shouldn't be able to troll sellers with BS comments and BS leading questions that are meant to insinuate something negative about the seller and/or their product offer.
            Missed the point? What point? He said "Trolls are everywhere. Yes. But when you PAY FOR ADVERTISING you should not have to put up with that nonsense."

            You read all of that into his simple reply? Your interpretation is interesting.
            No point there
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            • Profile picture of the author Freebiequeen1999
              I think one point people shoud be able to ask is - do you use this method yourself? proof?

              I think the amount of "theory" floating round is pretty weird.

              Do as I say, don't do as I do. People reselling reworked ideas that they have not had a personal success with are at the heart of the matter.

              Anyone remember William J McCorkle and/or Kevin Truedeau?

              McCorkle used actors to make income claims and rented yachts and helicopters etc to show him and his wife living the high life as he sold get rich forclosure schemes on infomercials. Did a nice stretch in prison as I recall
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
    LOL! Just saw somebody asking for a review copy of a product in the WSO section that costs $1.97.
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  • Profile picture of the author Javisito
    In my opinion as long as WSO is good the few negative comments from trolls usually drown in a sea of positive comments.

    However I do agree that the forum is not really what it used to be and that's both good and bad.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Old Guard? Maybe so - because so many who speak of "how things used to be" weren't here when things WERE that way.

      We used to buy WSOs that were discounted (highly) of majhor online product launches and ebooks.

      We used to post regularly with Reese, Crawford, Sanders, Humphrey, Filsaime and so many other well known names online.

      Many who are complaining about quality of WSOs are no longer running WSOs or even selling through a signature to members. Not worth it.

      New guard: is broke (no money to start) - pre-promotes (I'm going to do a WSO) - often doesn't try or succeed at the method they are selling here - it's a joke some days. In the other sections, new members post threads like crazy trying to create a "rep" here an then moved into WSOs quickly.

      It didn't start with the new owners - the slide into mediocrity began a couple years before the WF was sold. Maybe to pump it up for a sale...who knows?

      We have to deal with what is - not with how it used to be. A fancy new car for one person in time becomes a junker for another guy. The most expensive house can end up surrounded by "the projects". Nothing stays the same - it gets better or it gets worse. Sometimes the difference is in person's view rather than reality.
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      • Profile picture of the author Freebiequeen1999
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        Old Guard? Maybe so - because so many who speak of "how things used to be" weren't here when things WERE that way.

        We used to buy WSOs that were discounted (highly) of majhor online product launches and ebooks.

        We used to post regularly with Reese, Crawford, Sanders, Humphrey, Filsaime and so many other well known names online.

        Many who are complaining about quality of WSOs are no longer running WSOs or even selling through a signature to members. Not worth it.

        New guard: is broke (no money to start) - pre-promotes (I'm going to do a WSO) - often doesn't try or succeed at the method they are selling here - it's a joke some days. In the other sections, new members post threads like crazy trying to create a "rep" here an then moved into WSOs quickly.

        It didn't start with the new owners - the slide into mediocrity began a couple years before the WF was sold. Maybe to pump it up for a sale...who knows?

        We have to deal with what is - not with how it used to be. A fancy new car for one person in time becomes a junker for another guy. The most expensive house can end up surrounded by "the projects". Nothing stays the same - it gets better or it gets worse. Sometimes the difference is in person's view rather than reality.
        I think some of it is allowing these jerks to post "ads" in forum posts...too broke, too cheap to pay for an ad. Yes, I agree the "should I create this wso" is another cheap shot

        There are a lot of sad people on here - a guy whining that his "money making" e-book is not selling asks on another thread how he can make money doing "surveys">>>>ouch....ridiculous
        Why would anyone buy or trust his "rags to riches" story when he is out there looking to make peanuts on a survey site haha
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  • Profile picture of the author quinng123
    Well it comes with the territory, that would be the equivalent of some actor or actress who quite their career because of some bozos on twitter.

    Of course it is not the ideal for it to be a situation where trolls exist, however the right answer is to deal with it effectively in a professional manner, not simply give up especially if they are makign money
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    • Profile picture of the author wedreamseo
      Banned
      Is it being trolled or is it being questioned?

      I see no harm in people questioning sellers, if someone stands behind their product and offers a solid product at that, they should easily be able to defend their selves without it harming their sales.

      Personally I see many questionable services, so no surprise people get suspicious.

      In extreme cases where it's clearly a matter of trolling there is a report button in the bottom left corner of the profile.
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