Is Spinning a EzineArticle and Republishing, Stealing?

16 years ago

Originally Posted by ripsnorta2

The reason I ask, is that I noticed that one of my articles on EzineArticles had been published. Yay!

When I Googled, I found the title on another page and went to have a look. Unfortunately, the article has been mangled, even though the structure is recognizable. And of course, there is no attribution or link back.

As I said, the article has been completely butchered, words changed to nonsense, that sort of thing.

Is this against EZA rules? Is there anything I can do?

It isn't against the rules as the person who spun your article isn't really held to the rules of EZA. Plus, since the article has been butchered, it isn't necessarily plagiarism either (it passes the copyscape test, right?).

It sucks but there is very little you can do about it other than report it to google as a MFA (if it is using adsense) or something to that effect.

Chances are it will simply go away on its own.

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Takuya Hikichi

16 years ago

When you discover your own article plagiarized on someone's site, you WILL know it's yours and he/she took it from you.

I had similar experience like that and this guy happened to be a Warrior and EZA publisher with the same author names. I reported it to EZA and he lost his account there. You want to be 100% certain if you do report but I believe they have their way of investigating things once you report.

I've never done article spinning and I'm not interested in even finding out what that does. If it's done to my own article, maybe, but taking someone else' work and calling it as his/her original work is unethical in my opinion.

I think a while ago, some people bought at WSO few sets of PLR articles, only to find out it was something created out of article spinner.

To answer your question, "Yes, your article was stolen", but unfortunately, this happens all the time.

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ripsnorta2

16 years ago

When you discover your own article plagiarized on someone's site, you WILL know it's yours and he/she took it from you.

It's pretty easy to tell it's mine. As you said, you just know.

It sucks but there is very little you can do about it other than report it to google as a MFA (if it is using adsense) or something to that effect.

I figured as much. I know EZA leave the enforcement of copyright to the individual authors, but I've encountered this before with my blog. I contacted, left comments, even ended up contacting Google and nothing was done. In the end I just didn't want to waste any more time on it.

Ironically, I experimented with the same article by using Google's translator to translate it from English and back again. I was wondering if I could uniqify it enough so that I could submit it to another article directory. The results were so bad I just decided to rewrite manually. The article on this site looks worse than the attempt I made.

I just don't understand how this makes anyone any money.

You'd think visitors to the site would see the crap on there and just close it, rather than click on any ads or buy any products. Of course I can't see why anyone would buy anything from the spam I get either...

I guess I'll just have to settle for feeling annoyed.

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sparrow

16 years ago

I am surprised ezine articles accepted a real badly written article.

I know when I submit some articles once in a while they make rejections don't know why but I don't argue with them I just give them a replacement.

I would think if you can prove it is yours, report the guy. Ezine articles is the last place you want to be doing this type of article manipulation.

Ed

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ripsnorta2

16 years ago

No, I didn't find the copy at EZA. The guy took my EZA article, spun it, and put it on his website.

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Jon Alexander

16 years ago

How did you write the original article? Did you create it purely from your imagination, with no reference to anything you'd ever read or experienced before? or did you create it based on stuff you'd previously read, and previously knew,putting your own 'spin' on the topic?

Re the mangled version - that's what most 'spinners' do. They are worthless in terms of getting organic listings, and it won't take any traffic from you, or 'steal' any of your earnings. Search engines nowadays are smarter than that. What you need to worry about is versions spun into legibility and uniqueness. There's nothing you can do about those, because if you give it some thought, they have simply done what YOU did to create your article in the first place!

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ripsnorta2

16 years ago

Hi Jon,

I created the article from scratch, but I have certainly read material on that niche and topic. It's a bit hard to write in a vacuum after all.

If you're asking if I directly based the article on another article, then no, I didn't. I came up with an idea, which led to the title and then I started writing. So all the phrasing and structure should be unique.

I'm not too worried about 'stealing' my earnings. I was hoping the articles would drive traffic and help the serps. Unfortunately, I didn't get the links.

There's nothing you can do about those, because if you give it some thought, they have simply done what YOU did to create your article in the first place!

Considering I DIDN'T do that to create my article in the first place, I'm not sure that comment applies. :confused:

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Solidsnake

Banned 16 years ago

It;s legal but deep inside us, it's not ethical... the thing that hurts me when I found my articles chopped chopped by others...

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Takuya Hikichi

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Solidsnake

It;s legal

Are you sure about this? If not, it's better to refrain from stating anything as "legal" or "illegal" in forums like this. Someone else can take your word as advice and talk legality somewhere else and you don't want them saying they heard it from you.

Sorry to hear about what happened to your articles.

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Solidsnake

Banned 16 years ago

Originally Posted by Takuya Hikichi

Are you sure about this? If not, it's better to refrain from stating anything as "legal" or "illegal" in forums like this. Someone else can take your word as advice and talk legality somewhere else and you don't want them saying they heard it from you.

Sorry to hear about what happened to your articles.

As long as there is no rules or policy that could declare it as illegal, then it's legal... A suspect cannot be considered criminal until proven guilty...

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Mike McBride 16 years ago

Originally Posted by Solidsnake

As long as there is no rules or policy that could declare it as illegal, then it's legal... A suspect cannot be considered criminal until proven guilty...

Hmm... well, it's still an iffy proposition, offering legal advice in a forum like this, when you don't really know what the situation was.

But as a for instance, that picture you use for your avatar - that's Sophie Marceau, correct? Did you take that picture yourself? If not, where did you get it? Did you pay a licensing fee to use it? Did you find it on a photography site which allows people to use their pictures for free? Or did you simply find that picture online, and simply use it, without regard for copyright?

Care to offer some legal advice on that?

My point is simply that many people do things online that are clearly breaking one law or another, but do so anyway because they think it either doesn't matter or they won't get caught - or both.
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Jeffrey Louis

16 years ago

When I first started affiliate marketing before I had my own products someone copied all the text on my review page word for word on their domain.

I was pissed. I know how your feeling and know matter what there are always going to be unethical people everywhere even online.

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Lightlysalted

16 years ago

Bummer, sorry to hear your article got tampered with. It happens all the time when website owners don't want to publish a link back to your site

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Eric Lorence

16 years ago

At least it was respun, My articles are usually just scraped and placed word-for-word on spam Blogger blogs, what a pain!

Good luck!

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imblueprint

Banned 16 years ago

[DELETED]

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Glenn Leader

16 years ago

This has happened to me dozens of times, sometimes spun, but most often
just copied verbatim. I used to get upset about it all, and tried to put a
stop to it, it never worked. Now days I just shrug my shoulders and let
them get on with it. It's not worth my energy or time. I just use my
production line to continue with my business..

HTH

Glenn

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Steven Wagenheim

16 years ago

Okay, I don't know where some of these BS answers are coming from but
read EZA's TOS.

Any article taken from EZA MUST be reprinted in its entirety, word for word
and MUST keep the resource box intact.

If somebody took your article from EZA and did what you said they did, then
they have broken EZA's TOS.

It's that simple.

Sheesh people, read the rules of the site.

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Michael Oksa

16 years ago

It is illegal.

Writing a new article is completely different then 'spinning' someone else's.

Funny, one of the wrong answers comes from someone who happily admits to being 'black hat'. Duly noted, trust me.

Yes, if you use an article FROM EA you are held to thier terms of service. They have them in place for authors and publishers. For example, you are not allowed to reprint more than 25 articles during a calendar year.

It is illegal, it's called plagiarism.

Anyone who doesn't get that, or wants to justify/deny it, does not understand what plagiarism is.

@ Solidsnake, you couldn't be more wrong. You can't expect EZA to publish every single law regarding plagiarism and copyright infringement on their site. These laws exist, and are written down, just maybe not at EZA. You are correct about not being ethical.

Now, whether or not you should pursue this is a different matter, but it is illegal.

~Michael

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Jon Alexander

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

It is illegal.

It is illegal, it's called plagiarism.

Anyone who doesn't get that, or wants to justify/deny it, does not understand what plagiarism is.

~Michael

Like you. Plagiarism isn't illegal. It's not even a legal term.

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Peter Bestel

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Jon Alexander

Like you. Plagiarism isn't illegal. It's not even a legal term.

Apparently it can be:

Plagiarism becomes a legal offence only when there is intent to make money at the expense of the copyright owner

Charles Cronin (2003). "Plagiarism, Copyright, Academia and Commerce. Presentation given at Colby College". In Proceedings of the Conference on Information Ethics and Academic Honesty.

Don't shoot me - I just quoted the thing!

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Jon Alexander 16 years ago

Originally Posted by Peter Bestel

Apparently it can be:

Don't shoot me - I just quoted the thing!

Peter

the headline on that article sums it up. nd I quote too -

Plagiarism and the Law
Plagiarism is not a legal offence; it is an academic offence

That's from the UK and as far as I know there is no case law even DEFINING plagiarism, let alone quantifying when it becomes actionable.
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Michael Oksa

16 years ago

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

It is illegal.

It is illegal, it's called plagiarism.

Anyone who doesn't get that, or wants to justify/deny it, does not understand what plagiarism is.

~Michael

Like you. Plagiarism isn't illegal. It's not even a legal term.

That doesn't mean it isn't illegal. That's like saying killing someone isn't illegal because 'killing' isn't a legal term. Nice try.

~Michael

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SunTzu82 16 years ago

Originally Posted by Jon Alexander

Like you. Plagiarism isn't illegal. It's not even a legal term.

He's right in the sense that a work must be copywritten in order to file legal proceedings.
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Mike McBride

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Sheesh people, read the rules of the site.

Steven, Steven, Steven ... you know as well as I that most people can't be bothered to read the rules of EZA or any site, or anything for that matter.

If they do happen to be aware of the rules, most try to find a way around them, or just plain ignore them.

If they get caught, they then plead ignorance, or confusion, or that the rules are just plain wrong and shouldn't be the way they are.

If given a chance, they'll point fingers and blame the other guy.

Rules? We don't need no steenkin' rules ...

Sheesh.

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Steven Wagenheim

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike McBride

Steven, Steven, Steven ... you know as well as I that most people can't be bothered to read the rules of EZA or any site, or anything for that matter.

If they do happen to be aware of the rules, most try to find a way around them, or just plain ignore them.

If they get caught, they then plead ignorance, or confusion, or that the rules are just plain wrong and shouldn't be the way they are.

If given a chance, they'll point fingers and blame the other guy.

Rules? We don't need no steenkin' rules ...

Sheesh.

You're right Mike...what was I thinking?

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Simon_Sezs

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

It is illegal.

Funny, one of the wrong answers comes from someone who happily admits to being 'black hat'. Duly noted, trust me.
~Michael

I suspect you are talking about me. I don't steal. I exploit. Two totally different things. If you think that all black hat is are a bunch of theives, then you have a "caricature" view of what black hat is.

As far as being wrong...the poster was asking a question and I was answering him. There is very little that you can do if the article is spun well. And regardless of "terms and conditions" of EZA. That was the point I was making.

Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim

Okay, I don't know where some of these BS answers are coming from but
read EZA's TOS.

Any article taken from EZA MUST be reprinted in its entirety, word for word
and MUST keep the resource box intact.

If somebody took your article from EZA and did what you said they did, then
they have broken EZA's TOS.

It's that simple.

Sheesh people, read the rules of the site.

EZA won't do much because they can't police the internet for their stuff. If the spinner is an author, then that is a complete different story. But EZA doesn't have the resources to track down every friggin' thief and if they did, I would imagine that they would first go after those that simply remove the resource box and keep the article in its entirety, not the people who spin their shite into unreadable goo.

Just because a site has terms and conditions doesn't mean that people will follow them. And frankly, most don't have the resources to back it up. It is kind of like if the US made a law outlawing gambling worldwide.

The funny thing is that all the "spinner" had to do was combine 2 spun articles into one and he would have a completely new article (with more spider food for the SE) and not broken the TOS with EZA.

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Michael Oksa

16 years ago

Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

It is illegal.

Funny, one of the wrong answers comes from someone who happily admits to being 'black hat'. Duly noted, trust me.
~Michael

I suspect you are talking about me. I don't steal. I exploit. Two totally different things. If you think that all black hat is are a bunch of theives, then you have a "caricature" view of what black hat is.

As far as being wrong...the poster was asking a question and I was answering him. There is very little that you can do if the article is spun well. And regardless of "terms and conditions" of EZA. That was the point I was making.

I can see how that came across. My real point was that we are probably looking at it from a different point of view. I may have missed it, but I did not see you condemn the practice itself. Do you think it's okay if it's spun enough? Or do you think it should be entirely in the author's own words?

Just curious,
Michael

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Simon_Sezs

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

I can see how that came across. My real point was that we are probably looking at it from a different point of view. I may have missed it, but I did not see you condemn the practice itself. Do you think it's okay if it's spun enough? Or do you think it should be entirely in the author's own words?

Just curious,
Michael

I don't like spinners personally. They clog up the internet with non nonsensical information. I would much rather scrape than spin (and believe it or not, I give attribution). It is definitely the lazy man's approach to content though. I don't condone it nor condemn it. It is what it is. I am too much of a snob to do it though.

I have seen a lot of spinners that will simply replace synonyms, then the person who spun the article will go to copyscape to make sure that it is "original". Is that plagiary? Probably so.

Does replacing words in a sentence constitute plagiarism? What about reworking entire sentences or moving things around a bit?
What about taking someone's idea and expounding on it?
When is plagiary not plagiary?
Is it if I have taken two separate ideas and combined them into one?

According to the definition plagiary is:
A writer's presenting another person's words or ideas without giving credit to tha person.

Plagiarism is a funny thing. If you look at it that way, I suppose that there are a lot of marketers guilty of plagiary. There are even more copywriters guilty of it. Hell, I am guilty of it.

I have taken an article idea from EZA, reworked it and made it better (not hard to do considering that most EZA are trash). Am I plagiarizing? I guess in a round about kind of way, I am, since I am not listing the source of my inspiration.

I have had my articles taken and the bio box stripped and I have seen some of my articles spun. It is not worth losing sleep over and definitely not a battle I see that I should waste my time with. Frankly, I think that the original poster should forget about it and move on rather than waste the energy pursuing "justice".

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Michael Oksa

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Simon_Sezs

I don't like spinners personally. They clog up the internet with non nonsensical information. I would much rather scrape than spin (and believe it or not, I give attribution). It is definitely the lazy man's approach to content though. I don't condone it nor condemn it. It is what it is. I am too much of a snob to do it though.

I have seen a lot of spinners that will simply replace synonyms, then the person who spun the article will go to copyscape to make sure that it is "original". Is that plagiary? Probably so.

Does replacing words in a sentence constitute plagiarism? What about reworking entire sentences or moving things around a bit?
What about taking someone's idea and expounding on it?
When is plagiary not plagiary?
Is it if I have taken two separate ideas and combined them into one?

According to the definition plagiary is:
A writer's presenting another person's words or ideas without giving credit to tha person.

Plagiarism is a funny thing. If you look at it that way, I suppose that there are a lot of marketers guilty of plagiary. There are even more copywriters guilty of it. Hell, I am guilty of it.

I have taken an article idea from EZA, reworked it and made it better (not hard to do considering that most EZA are trash). Am I plagiarizing? I guess in a round about kind of way, I am, since I am not listing the source of my inspiration.

I have had my articles taken and the bio box stripped and I have seen some of my articles spun. It is not worth losing sleep over and definitely not a battle I see that I should waste my time with. Frankly, I think that the original poster should forget about it and move on rather than waste the energy pursuing "justice".

Thank you Simon,

Just to be clear, I have nothing against and was just looking for clarification. You explained it well. Your last paragraph is one we mostly agree on - and it shows we have some of the same experiences.

You present some interesting points as well. I still believe plagiarism is illegal, but what qualifies something as plagiarism may not always be easy to define (though sometimes it is clear).

~Michael

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Simon_Sezs

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

Thank you Simon,

Just to be clear, I have nothing against and was just looking for clarification. You explained it well. Your last paragraph is one we mostly agree on - and it shows we have some of the same experiences.

You present some interesting points as well. I still believe plagiarism is illegal, but what qualifies something as plagiarism may not always be easy to define (though sometimes it is clear).

~Michael

No offense taken. I think that most warriors are on the same page...we just all use different techniques to arrive at the same conclusions.

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Allen Graves

16 years ago

Illegal or not, it's unethical and devious.

Please PM me with the information as I would like to use this person as an example...if you don't mind, of course.

AL

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Cerys 16 years ago

At least you have the satisfaction of knowing that the person looks a complete idiot for using a spinner and then trying to publish a heap of junk
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Jon Alexander

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Allen Graves

Illegal or not, it's unethical and devious.

Please PM me with the information as I would like to use this person as an example...if you don't mind, of course.

AL

as you appear to be struggling with these concepts, perhaps I could point you towards wikipedia where you can learn about the topic.

Plagiarism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

in short - copyright theft is illegal in most countries, plagiarism isn't.

And for what it's worth, perhaps you should focus a little on your *reading* skills as well as your writing ones. I didn't say 'plagiarism isn't a legal term therefore it isn't illegal'.

I said 'it isn't EVEN a legal term'.

I really wonder at the quality of your articles.

I really do.

If they are as well thought out and researched as your posts on this forum... sheesh. There's $3 down the tubes.

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Allen Graves

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Jon Alexander

as you appear to be struggling with these concepts, perhaps I could point you towards wikipedia where you can learn about the topic.

Plagiarism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

in short - copyright theft is illegal in most countries, plagiarism isn't.

And for what it's worth, perhaps you should focus a little on your *reading* skills as well as your writing ones. I didn't say 'plagiarism isn't a legal term therefore it isn't illegal'.

I said 'it isn't EVEN a legal term'.

I really wonder at the quality of your articles.

I really do.

If they are as well thought out and researched as your posts on this forum... sheesh. There's $3 down the tubes.

John...I am not sure I understand what you mean.

Did you mean to quote my post above or someone else's?

Nobody has ever questioned my article writing before....and where does the $3 come from?

AL

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curious1960

16 years ago

I honestly think that obsessing with "who stole my article" is ridiculous and immature especially knowing the fact that Google pretty much ignores copies of a content.

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Allen Graves 16 years ago

Curious,

When someone has put a great deal of time and research into a well-written, money-making article, it is only natural to feel "violated" or "ripped-off" when they find it somewhere else without reference.

It's not immature or rediculous, it's simply human nature.

Now, bitching about it is another story. LOL

I think the OP was just asking if there is anything he could do about it.

AL
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Glenn Leader

16 years ago

Originally Posted by curious1960

I honestly think that obsessing with "who stole my article" is ridiculous and immature especially knowing the fact that Google pretty much ignores copies of a content.

This isn't true. Google only ignores duplicate content on the same
site. If it was true, article marketing wouldn't work.

HTH

Glenn

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Allen Graves 16 years ago

To an extent, they do ignore copies of their content. But it depends on the angle you are looking at it from.

What I think he should have said is that they will only (usually) display a single version of the content in the serps.

Here's an example.

Anabolic Steroids Are Good or Bad? - Google Search

Pay attention to result #2.

Then do the same search in quotes:

"Anabolic Steroids Are Good or Bad?" - Google Search

So, although they do not ignore all copies of the content, they usually only display one result in the SERPs. Which one they display is a totally different topic...but this is a good example.

AL
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- Allen Graves 16 years ago
  
  Not a moment later, I found this one:
  
  must read classics for kids - Google Search
  
  LMAO...who knows?!!!
  
  AL
  
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Jon Alexander

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Allen Graves

John...I am not sure I understand what you mean.

Did you mean to quote my post above or someone else's?

Nobody has ever questioned my article writing before....and where does the $3 come from?

AL

of course not Allen! Sorry, got carried away with replying to 'Crazy' Oksa.

To highlight what he REALLY means, consider this little thought experiment. (I'll supply both sides, as Crazy probably won't be able to answer without ending up bubbling spit, etc).

I hire Mr oksa to write me an article. 300 words, $10. mesothelioma. All rights.

He sends me back his carefully hand-crafted novella, and I pay him.

The article now belongs to me. Lock stock and barrel, Copyright and all. I may not be very impressed with the quality, or the poor sentence structure, but what the hey, it's only $10.

I can do what I like with it.

I can post it to eza with my resource box on it, I can slam it up to goarticles, I can submit it to a thousand directories if I like.

I can also use bits of it. After all, I paid for it, and it's mine, all rights.

I can also 'spin' it, and submit it to different directories.

Hell, I can even spin it a hundred times and sell it on to newbies at $3 a pop.

Wow. I've just made $300 from Mr Oksa's $10 article.

Can he complain? Of course not.

in fact, he's happy, because he got paid.

so what Oksa is really saying is that SPINNING IS FINE AS LONG AS HE GETS PAID

Nice.

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Michael Oksa

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Jon Alexander

of course not Allen! Sorry, got carried away with replying to 'Crazy' Oksa.

To highlight what he REALLY means, consider this little thought experiment. (I'll supply both sides, as Crazy probably won't be able to answer without ending up bubbling spit, etc).

I hire Mr oksa to write me an article. 300 words, $10. mesothelioma. All rights.

He sends me back his carefully hand-crafted novella, and I pay him.

The article now belongs to me. Lock stock and barrel, Copyright and all. I may not be very impressed with the quality, or the poor sentence structure, but what the hey, it's only $10.

I can do what I like with it.

I can post it to eza with my resource box on it, I can slam it up to goarticles, I can submit it to a thousand directories if I like.

I can also use bits of it. After all, I paid for it, and it's mine, all rights.

I can also 'spin' it, and submit it to different directories.

Hell, I can even spin it a hundred times and sell it on to newbies at $3 a pop.

Wow. I've just made $300 from Mr Oksa's $10 article.

Can he complain? Of course not.

in fact, he's happy, because he got paid.

so what Oksa is really saying is that SPINNING IS FINE AS LONG AS HE GETS PAID

Nice.

Your personal attacks and accusations of my writing abilities are unacceptable.

Don't put words in my mouth.

If you want to make this personal, then by all means do so. But please keep in mind that I have not called you names, nor have I insulted your intelligence.

Anybody else think I'm crazy? If so, please let me know.

All the best,
Michael Oksa

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Takuya Hikichi 16 years ago

I had to jump in.

I think we all know how to define what plagiarism is at personal level and we as Warriors shouldn't be involved in it.

But it's starting to get too personal and doesn't need to be like this.

Michael is NOT crazy and publicly calling him by whatever names is unnecessary (and can offend not just Michael, but also many others).
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Mike McBride

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Michael Oksa

Anybody else think I'm crazy? If so, please let me know.

Not in the least, Michael. I've always found you to be a very open and helpful member of the forum.

After reading your posts in this thread, I have no idea what prompted those personal attacks, which were entirely unwarranted in my opinion. (It they were attempts at humor, they badly missed the mark.)

Don't let it get you down, Michael.

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Michael Oksa

16 years ago

All quotes are from Jon Alexander.

To highlight what he REALLY means,

You have no idea, or right to speak about what I really mean.

consider this little thought experiment.

Will do.

(I'll supply both sides, as Crazy probably won't be able to answer without ending up bubbling spit, etc).

That's insulting, and immediately takes away from anything else you are going to say, but I will listen.

I hire Mr oksa to write me an article. 300 words, $10. mesothelioma. All rights.

No problem. I'd be happy to write those for someone.

He sends me back his carefully hand-crafted novella, and I pay him.

Actually, I take paymnent up front, but that's neither here nor there.

The article now belongs to me. Lock stock and barrel, Copyright and all.

That is correct, once it is paid for, I retain no rights to it.

I may not be very impressed with the quality, or the poor sentence structure, but what the hey, it's only $10.

Again, the insinuations are as clear as they are inaccurate.

I can do what I like with it.

That is true, otherwise I have not really given you the rights.

I can post it to eza with my resource box on it, I can slam it up to goarticles, I can submit it to a thousand directories if I like.

Yep.

I can also use bits of it. After all, I paid for it, and it's mine, all rights.

Of course.

I can also 'spin' it, and submit it to different directories.

You cettainly can, though I would prefer you don't. It is yours to do with as you please.

Hell, I can even spin it a hundred times and sell it on to newbies at $3 a pop.

Yes, you can.

Wow. I've just made $300 from Mr Oksa's $10 article.

WRONG! It is YOUR article. Not mine.

Can he complain? Of course not.

Nope, I wouldn't like the spinning, but it is no longer my article.

in fact, he's happy, because he got paid.

I may not be as happy as you assume if it was used in this way, but there would be nothing I could do about it.

so what Oksa is really saying is that SPINNING IS FINE AS LONG AS HE GETS PAID

Nope. That's not what I said at all. You need to stop putting words into my mouth and speaking for me.

Nice.

Not really.

you guys are both right, it's gotten way too personal so lets all just let it drop.

Oh, if only I didn't know what was coming.

As a matter of fact, it's not even very interesting, because those of us making very good money using this kind of technology can never go back. All that can happen is that the rest of you eventually have to play catch up.

Nope, that won't happen. Believe it or not, some people will NEVER use spinners.

Face it, the technology isn't going away.

Sad, but true.

And the more people use it, the harder it becomes for those of you still 'whittling by hand' to compete.

That really is funny. I will take hand-written over soun garbage any and every time.

I know what I'd prefer if I was offered a choice between one $10 article and 100 for the same price, given that all would pass the dupe content test, and none infringed anyone else's rights.

Me too. I would rather take one well-written article than 100 pieces of junk. But hey, that's just me, right?

*I'm in this to make money - I'm not providing some kind of charitable service*

We're all in it to make money, and no one was accusing you of being charitable.

BTW, Mr Osaka may not be mad, but he's wrong about plagiarism, and trying to scare peopel by making wild assertions about the law does no one any good.

I'm not trying to scare anyone, just sharing my take on thiings (that's what we do here). And I see the distinction between 'civil' and 'criminal'. Perhaps I should have stuck to the term 'copyright infringement'.

In fact, I'd go so far as to call it a dirty, dirty, DIRTY business.

I'm not surprised you would make more attacks on my character. Like I said, if only I didn't know something like that was coming. You say to "let it drop" but you just couldn't resist another jab, could you? No problem.

And I notice he didn't bother to put his side to my 'thought experiment'

Coming from you, that's an oxymoron. And you just saw my side.

either, so we can take it he agrees that spinning is fine as long as he gets his cut.

See above.

Ok, so now you see my side, I see yours. If you'd like we can really let it drop, but I will not tolerate your personal attacks on my character, abilities, or state of mental health.

All the best,
Michael Oksa

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Jon Alexander

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Mike McBride

Not in the least, Michael. I've always found you to be a very open and helpful member of the forum.

After reading your posts in this thread, I have no idea what prompted those personal attacks, which were entirely unwarranted in my opinion. (It they were attempts at humor, they badly missed the mark.)

Don't let it get you down, Michael.

yes, they were attempts at humor. hence the quotes. And yes, they did miss the mark, which isn't really my problem. Not my fault if other people have no sense of humor. Let's face it, if you make a living writing articles by hand, in the future you will nead a REAL big S.O.H. - your business is about to evaporate. Or become WAY less profitable.

. I notice that Mr Osaka has once again replied, and once again missed the point. He has no problem with spinning as long as it pays him a cut, except 'he may be a little unhappy'. He'll have to change his t&Cs too - otherwise for every article he sells for $10, a thousand well spun versions will hit the streets, starting at a $1. Just as readable, just as informative, just as useful for SEO, and totally legal. Even according to him.

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Justin Jordan

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Jon Alexander

y
. I notice that Mr Osaka has once again replied, and once again missed the point. He has no problem with spinning as long as it pays him a cut, except 'he may be a little unhappy'. He'll have to change his t&Cs too - otherwise for every article he sells for $10, a thousand well spun versions will hit the streets, starting at a $1. Just as readable, just as informative, just as useful for SEO, and totally legal. Even according to him.

Well, your point is irrelevant and nonsensical. He never (at least in this thread) said that it was wrong to spin or alter an article you own all the rights to. That's what owning the rights means. Why you think that is the same as doing it to something you don't own is kind of a mystery.

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Michael Oksa

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Jon Alexander

yes, they were attempts at humor. hence the quotes. And yes, they did miss the mark, which isn't really my problem. Not my fault if other people have no sense of humor. Let's face it, if you make a living writing articles by hand, in the future you will nead a REAL big S.O.H. - your business is about to evaporate. Or become WAY less profitable.

. I notice that Mr Osaka has once again replied, and once again missed the point. He has no problem with spinning as long as it pays him a cut, except 'he may be a little unhappy'. He'll have to change his t&Cs too - otherwise for every article he sells for $10, a thousand well spun versions will hit the streets, starting at a $1. Just as readable, just as informative, just as useful for SEO, and totally legal. Even according to him.

First, I have an excellent sense of humor. But humor is funny, that's why you missed the mark.

Second, it is Oksa, not Osaka. I take pride in my last name and your purposeful misalignment of it is unnecessary.

Third, I never said I have "no problem" with someone spinning articles I write. I said I wouldn't like it. I said I would not like it. That means I would not like it. I do not like spinning. BUT there is nothing I could do about it.

Also, if I knew ahead of time you were going to spin any article I write for you, I wouldn't take you as a client. That's my choice as well. I have more than enough clients to keep me busy.

You also use the term "get a cut" to make sound as though I am somehow profiting from the spinning, this is not the case. I am not getting a cut of anything. I am simply being hired to write an article. But, as I said, IF I knew ahead of time that it would be spun I would refuse the job and suggest you find someone else to write it.

Plus, if spinning is so awesome WHY WOULD YOU NEED TO HIRE SOMEONE TO WRITE FOR YOU? Just get a spinner to do it.

You really need to let go of the personal attacks.

Spun articles "as readable" as normal articles?? I guess you DO have a sense of humor after all.

All the best,
Michael Oksa

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asinGer

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Allen Graves

Illegal or not, it's unethical and devious.

Please PM me with the information as I would like to use this person as an example...if you don't mind, of course.

AL

I agree with you here, Allen.

It's W-R-O-N-G to take someones work, and "spin" it and then call it your own. I don't care if it is legal or illegal. In my mind it is plain wrong.

AW's (article writers) like Michael Oksa are honest. They actually research a topic and then produce something of renewed value. Plus, it makes for better SEO. And have you read some of these regurgitated articles? They look like crap!

I don't know about you, but "spinning" articles is a dirty, dirty habit.

Just my 2 cents.

Aaron

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Jon Alexander 16 years ago

you guys are both right, it's gotten way too personal so lets all just let it drop.

As a matter of fact, it's not even very interesting, because those of us making very good money using this kind of technology can never go back. All that can happen is that the rest of you eventually have to play catch up. Face it, the technology isn't going away. And the more people use it, the harder it becomes for those of you still 'whittling by hand' to compete. I know what I'd prefer if I was offered a choice between one $10 article and 100 for the same price, given that all would pass the dupe content test, and none infringed anyone else's rights. *I'm in this to make money - I'm not providing some kind of charitable service*

BTW, Mr Osaka may not be mad, but he's wrong about plagiarism, and trying to scare peopel by making wild assertions about the law does no one any good. In fact, I'd go so far as to call it a dirty, dirty, DIRTY business. And I notice he didn't bother to put his side to my 'thought experiment' either, so we can take it he agrees that spinning is fine as long as he gets his cut.
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Gunter Eibl

16 years ago

This happens every day and there is not much you or EZA can do about it. The only thing you can try with success is to contact the hosting company of this site and tell them that they have stolen your content. Attach a proof with your request. If this is any serious host they will shut the hosting down for this person.

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Allen Graves

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Gunter Eibl

This happens every day and there is not much you or EZA can do about it. The only thing you can try with success is to contact the hosting company of this site and tell them that they have stolen your content. Attach a proof with your request. If this is any serious host they will shut the hosting down for this person.

Gunter

Problem with that is that if the article or content is "spun" then it is not technically the same content, therefore claims that they are using your content are not entirely legitimate.

AL

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Simon_Sezs

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Allen Graves

Problem with that is that if the article or content is "spun" then it is not technically the same content, therefore claims that they are using your content are not entirely legitimate.

AL

And that is the problem with spun content and plagiary. Like it or not, it is technically not plagiarized and therefore most people wouldn't have a leg to stand on. Basically, if it can stand the copyscape test, then the original author is sunk.

And the last time I checked EZA hasn't built a prison for offenders so terms and conditions or TOS won't stand up either, if the person spinning the article doesn't want to comply (if they are an author, then that is a different story).

It isn't worth the trouble to be real honest. Just take your lumps and move on. I have had articles reprinted in whole WITHOUT the bio box which is clearly plagiarism and nothing happened. The spun page will likely get deindexed over time.

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TheRichJerksNet

16 years ago

This happens every day and there is not much you or EZA can do about it. The only thing you can try with success is to contact the hosting company of this site and tell them that they have stolen your content. Attach a proof with your request. If this is any serious host they will shut the hosting down for this person.

Gunter

A host can not just shut down a site because you claim to own a TEXT article.. You would be required to not only prove your claim but also get a court order to supply the host with in order to shut down the site. If you dont know what it takes to get a court order then your best just to forget about it and move on. Fact is a host can be sued for taking down a server without a court order in such cases as this.

Problem with that is that if the article or content is "spun" then it is not technically the same content, therefore claims that they are using your content are not entirely legitimate.

Allen, very well said...

James

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latoya

16 years ago

Originally Posted by TheRichJerksNet

A host can not just shut down a site because you claim to own a TEXT article.. You would be required to not only prove your claim but also get a court order to supply the host with in order to shut down the site. If you dont know what it takes to get a court order then your best just to forget about it and move on. Fact is a host can be sued for taking down a server without a court order in such cases as this.

Allen, very well said...

James

They can and they will. I have had it done without a court order.

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TheRichJerksNet 16 years ago

You may have had it done but with most "real" host you will not unless you provide a court order. Please feel free to go read some top host terms, for example hostgator.. The fact is the law requires them to have a court order, thus is why they can be sued just for ripping down a server just because someone ask them to do so. Also a fact if you think a host is going to throw away a paying client that has been there for years and pays good money then you are mistaken, they will protect that client with everything they have until you prove they have broken the law.

You are free to disagree and again a "real" host will not just rip down a site because you ask.

James
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Jeffrey Louis

16 years ago

I don't think spinning articles is stealing because the spinner is making 75% new content which technically is not stealing... however it is way easier for me to write an article from scratch then to write an article based on someone elses ideas

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latoya

16 years ago

It's an infringement on your copyright and it's illegal.

From the U.S. Copyright Office:

How much do I have to change in order to claim copyright in someone else's work?
Only the owner of copyright in a work has the right to prepare, or to authorize someone else to create, a new version of that work. Accordingly, you cannot claim copyright to another's work, no matter how much you change it, unless you have the owner's consent.

What can you do about it? That's another story.

I'd send a DMCA notice to Google, especially if the site is using Adsense. You may be able to get the site de-indexed. You can do the same for the other search engines. If he's using some other ad service, then I'd send a DMCA notice to them.

Email the webhost and let them know the website owner is using stolen content. Many hosts include ban copyright infringement in their TOS, so the host will likely take the site down.

There's information at copyright.gov about suing for infringement, but I'm sure that one article isn't worth the time of a lawsuit.

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TheRichJerksNet

16 years ago

I'd send a DMCA notice to Google, especially if the site is using Adsense. You may be able to get the site de-indexed. You can do the same for the other search engines. If he's using some other ad service, then I'd send a DMCA notice to them.

Email the webhost and let them know the website owner is using stolen content. Many hosts include ban copyright infringement in their TOS, so the host will likely take the site down.

Complete waste of time and NO the host will not pull the site down. First prove copyright, 2nd prove it is yours, 3rd get a court order and the list can go on and on..

If you spend your time running after all the frauders online you will never have the time to run your business. It is not worth it the waste of time.. Best thing for the OP to do is just go on about business as usual and forget it.

Now I am no writer, can't you tell ..lol But let's just say...

Allen, Steven, and Myself all 3 write an article about social networks and how to make money from them. We release these articles in the directories, now all 3 articles sound similar and may even include some of the same words. Does that mean one or the other stole the others ideas ?? NO!! that just means we all 3 did the same research and came to the same conclusions.

(side note: I am by no means putting myself in the same category as Allen or Steven.. It was just an example)

The fact is we are talking about nothing more than TEXT here.. A idea that put down on paper, an idea that was exapanded upon, and etc.. The OP wrote an article, so where did his knowlege come from to write that article ?? More than likely research, reading, asking questions and etc.. So infact you can say the article was wrote with the knowledge gained from the research so can you call that copyright violation too ?? Again the answer NO!!

All ideas are ideas that was born from another idea, mankind has been this was from day one and mankind will be this way until the very last day of the human race.

James

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Kay King

16 years ago

Lot of knee jerk legal eagles here - without wings. Holiday Inn must have been full last night.

Definition of plagiarism:

Plagiarism Law & Legal Definition

EZA doesn't pursue it for you - but they do delete authors AND their articles in some cases like this. I've seen it done.

From Wiki - regarding online plagiarism:

It is important to reiterate that plagiarism is not the mere copying of text, but the presentation of another's ideas as one's own, regardless of the specific words or constructs used to express that idea.

Plagiarism is not a criminal offense - but is subject to civil law. In other words, you can be sued for monetary damages.

Those who think "writing an article" means taking someone else's article, rewording it and then calling it their own - are fooling themselves if they expect to be very successful in any business.

kay

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mikegates 16 years ago

It's too bad there are such scum bags in world. I've found my article on a blog with my title and the article text word for word, with no resource box.

So, the thief used my content and I get none of the credit. I tried to email the thief asking them to remove the article, but of course the email on the blog came back as invalid.

I contacted Ezinearticles because that's where I posted the article and they said there was really nothing they could do. So I gave up and moved on.

It's an unfortunate part of doing business online. Since it takes too much time and effort to go after the thieves they get away with it.

The only thing that brings me comfort is knowing that what goes around comes around. Some day their unethical behavior will catch up with them, or someone will still their content.

Mike
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Allen Graves

16 years ago

Originally Posted by Kay King

Those who think "writing an article" means taking someone else's article, rewording it and then calling it their own - are fooling themselves if they expect to be very successful in any business.

kay

That's right Kay! Simply giving the masses the same information found elsewhere is not such a good business model.

Give 'em what they want, but give them some original, quality ideas and information if you want to go places.

AL

p.s. James, there's no reason you cannot be in the same "category" as anyone else. We've just been doing it a lot longer!

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saar2222000

16 years ago

What if i took the article, got it copyrighted and then sued you? This might be a nice living....stealing articles of the the internet and having them copyrighted and then suing everyone..LOL. Thats going to be my new ebook. LOL.

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Mary Laine

16 years ago

I had to edit...what is with this thread??! Man o Man! Nasty nasty.

I found one of my articles at an article directory (that I did not send to)...my words, someone else's name!! And this person had about 400 articles to their name! I complained and they took it off.

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Marhelper

16 years ago

Unfortunately, there is not much you can do. It is certainly unethical.

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Cerys

16 years ago

As James said they won't rip it down because how can you really ever prove that the copyright belonged to you in the first place? You simply cannot prove that you wrote the article as opposed to the other person involved in the argument.

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Michael Oksa

16 years ago

My apologies.

This thread has gotten way out of hand, and off topic. I felt that I could not let what I perceived as personal attacks against my character and writing abilities go unchecked.

That is no excuse.

From here on out I will respond to the points in the thread, and not anything personal.

Jon and I have a difference of opinion, and that is a good thing because it helps each of think in different ways. Somehow it got personal and I did nothing to stem it.

I have nothing personal against Jon and hold no grudge.

Sorry to have wasted everyone's time with this nasty nonsense.

All the best,
Michael Oksa

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RRicart

16 years ago

Plagiarism is Plagiarism - I think I learned in one of my English courses in college that if 3 or more words are teh same in the article on the same line it can be considered plagiarism....

We can always use articles as inspiration to our own work - and as long as you change the way its worded and the structure of the sentence its totally fine...I dont agree with plagiarism but sometimes it does happen accidentally some people think that by revising an article a bit its okay to do it - its just lack of information that causes alot of these issues.....

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zerofill

16 years ago

Are we referring to article spinners and people just changing a few sentences? Or someone reading your article and rewriting it in their own words entirely? Or just someone rewriting some sentences here or there?

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KonaGirl

16 years ago

Originally Posted by ripsnorta2

The reason I ask, is that I noticed that one of my articles on EzineArticles had been published. Yay!

When I Googled, I found the title on another page and went to have a look. Unfortunately, the article has been mangled, even though the structure is recognizable. And of course, there is no attribution or link back.

As I said, the article has been completely butchered, words changed to nonsense, that sort of thing.

Is this against EZA rules? Is there anything I can do?

If your name and website is still attached and you don't want it to be because of the butcher job that was done, you can contact the person and ask them to put up the original article with your links still in tact, or remove it immediately. If it is a mangled mess without any connection to you, don't worry about it.

If they rewrote it and published it on Ezine, you can report the author and the article will be removed and the author may get banned temporarily.

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tommygadget

16 years ago

I've been avoiding this thread because I don't use automated article spinners. Boy, I've really missed some REAL entertainment. Hold on, I'll just go get some popcorn...

TomG.

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Emailrevealer

16 years ago

I have the same problem. My most polular article on ezine was stolen ans slightly spun and is being spammed akll over to promote some BS affiliate link to a product that does noe even work.
Very frustrating.

I tried locating the person named as the author but its a fake name.

Originally Posted by ripsnorta2

The reason I ask, is that I noticed that one of my articles on EzineArticles had been published. Yay!

When I Googled, I found the title on another page and went to have a look. Unfortunately, the article has been mangled, even though the structure is recognizable. And of course, there is no attribution or link back.

As I said, the article has been completely butchered, words changed to nonsense, that sort of thing.

Is this against EZA rules? Is there anything I can do?

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Is Spinning a EzineArticle and Republishing, Stealing?

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