What do you think about people who buy your product through their own Clickbank ID?

151 replies
Now we all know that people DO buy through their own Clickbank Affiliate ID's... but do you think it's acceptable?

I mean, just a few days back I got a really shocking email...

This guy emails me and says, "I just purchased your product
through my affiliate link.. but didn't get credit.. can you make
sure I do".

..WHAT THE...!

I mean, if you're going to steal from someone, at least be a bit discreet about it! I told him what he's just done is as if you've robbed someone and then called up the victim to let them know who you are!

He then apologised... but then proceeded to refund his purchase (loser).

Also, another thing that annoys me is if you are going to buy through your own link... why have a Clickbank ID that is your name? Are these people just generally thick.. or I guess it maybe that they just think it's okay to buy through yourself and receive a 60% discount that you're not entitled to?

One could argue that..well at least I got 40% of that sale, and it's better than zero..

..but what do you think?

I'll be saving this thread for future reference for myself and others in the future.

Fire away your thoughts, thanks!

Cheers,
Adeel
#buy #buy from yourself #clickbank #people #product
  • Profile picture of the author Will Edwards
    No problem at all with me - it's simply an affiliate sale as far as I am concerned. And, of course, once they are convinced the product is good, they may then decide to promote it anyway.

    Will
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    • Profile picture of the author Adeel_Chowdhry
      Originally Posted by Will Edwards View Post

      No problem at all with me - it's simply an affiliate sale as far as I am concerned. And, of course, once they are convinced the product is good, they may then decide to promote it anyway.

      Will
      Well the thing is, it's not an affiliate sale.. you can't refer yourself and call yourself an affiliate!

      Besides, if they wanted the material purely to check out before promoting as an affiliate/JV.. i'd rather provide free access to view the materials than have them buy through themselves!

      Adeel
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      • Profile picture of the author waken
        Originally Posted by Adeel_Chowdhry View Post

        Well the thing is, it's not an affiliate sale.. you can't refer yourself and call yourself an affiliate!

        Adeel
        Well, treat it as if it was Adeel. What's the big deal?
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        • Profile picture of the author Adeel_Chowdhry
          Originally Posted by waken View Post

          Well, treat it as if it was Adeel. What's the big deal?
          What's the big deal?

          Well... i'd say six figures!

          Ya digg?
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        • Profile picture of the author Alan Petersen
          Doesn't bother me either especially if they're going to promote it. Rosalind Gardner says to do that in her Super Affiliate Handbook (if you're going to promote the product).

          But I know some folks don't like it so they make it very clear in their affiliate page terms so if it bothers you I would suggest adding that on your affiliate page that you do not allow buying your product through your own link for the discount. Hard to enforce with ClickBank, PDC, etc. but at least you have made your policy crystal clear. If someone still does it after reading your policy than they're scummy.
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      • Profile picture of the author la dominatrix
        Originally Posted by Adeel_Chowdhry View Post

        Besides, if they wanted the material purely to check out before promoting as an affiliate/JV.. i'd rather provide free access to view the materials than have them buy through themselves!
        Adeel
        One thing that you have to remember is the fact that most newbies have not got the clout to ask for a review copy, they probably all know they exist, but have not got a chance to get one.

        Personally I would never ever consider recommending something I had not bought and tried out. Would you think Adeel I should pay the full price to try your product to try it out. Or will you give me an review copy because I can promote article resource materials as a full time writer. I would appreciate an answer to how you feel about that.

        Just a thought but I am sure there is a way to block affiliates until they have bought the product and can show a receipt, why can't you do that.


        La dominatrix
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    • Profile picture of the author warriortx
      Originally Posted by Will Edwards View Post

      No problem at all with me - it's simply an affiliate sale as far as I am concerned. And, of course, once they are convinced the product is good, they may then decide to promote it anyway.

      Will
      I agree what does it matter, if you made the sale
      and he mite tell others.
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      • Profile picture of the author BobbyWalker
        OMG!

        I can't believe what I'm reading here!

        ok...ok

        I agree with the gravity and spreading the word..blah blah blah

        All that is fine and good..

        BUT..

        ARE NONE OF YOU PROMOTING AFFILIATE PROGRAMS ON CLICKBANK?

        And if so, can you imagine if this is the mindset of thousands of people and you are trying to make affiliate sales for yourself?

        How in the hell can you think this is ok?

        If you owned a store, it would be ok, if you rang up the
        purchase and the guy only gave you 50% of the total?

        Add that up over the course of a day!

        Basically if you're promoting an affiliate program and aren't offering
        some badass bonuses...someone you referred is going to get your
        commission...lol....is that ok with you?

        I know you guys have to be smarter than that...

        So bottom line is...it's ok to use your own link...unless
        you're trying to make an affiliate sale...lol

        -Bobby

        P.S. All you guys thinking it's ok to buy from your own affiliate link better spend some serious money on creating super bonus packages, cause obviously, the people you're sending through your affiliate link think it's ok too

        ..
        ..
        ..
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        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          I've always thought this to be a ridiculous argument.

          If an affiliate buys one personal copy of your product through his link - what does it hurt you? He gets no more commission than any other person making an affiliate sale to a customer, a neighbor, his brother....the seller gets no less money than from any other affiliate sale.

          If you are offering a 75% commission on a $40 product, for example...you are stating clearly that you are content to earn $10 on each sale.

          Consider, for example, a $40 product with a 75% commission....

          A customer sees a $40 product for a $40 price - an affiliate has the insider view. He sees a $10 product with a $30 marketing fee - and how many seeing that would choose to pay 4X as much as they have to?

          We can say the affiliate shouldn't look at it that way - but that is what he sees. That's reality and it may be the higher the commission %, the more chance affiliates will buy through their own link.

          The bigger question to me is this: Clearly the person was a new affiliate - but what was the problem with the sale? Did he not know how to use his own link - or is CB dropping ID's again? How did that sale come through on the seller's end? As another affiliate's sale - or as "affiliate=none"?

          kay
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        • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
          Originally Posted by BobbyWalker View Post

          ARE NONE OF YOU PROMOTING AFFILIATE PROGRAMS ON CLICKBANK?
          Yes, but not that many MMO products to other people that are in the MMO niche because guess what they do? They buy through their own links. And who does that hurt? Really nobody but the affiliate. YOU still get the same amount of money as you would have had any affiliate from Clickbank sold the product.

          Originally Posted by BobbyWalker View Post

          And if so, can you imagine if this is the mindset of thousands of people and you are trying to make affiliate sales for yourself?
          Buying through someones own affiliate link is what most of the people just starting out in IM do. I know this because a lot of them tell me that they do it. Why wouldn't they?

          Originally Posted by BobbyWalker View Post

          How in the hell can you think this is ok?
          I don't think that anyone really thinks that it is "OK", but are you and Adeel noticing that you guys are really the only ones that think it is that BIG of a deal? If the guy that bought your product heard about it through any way other than your own direct promotion, you are not out a dime.

          Originally Posted by BobbyWalker View Post

          If you owned a store, it would be ok, if you rang up the
          purchase and the guy only gave you 50% of the total?
          If there was a way that he could legally get a 50% discount on the purchase because I chose to sell my products in a way that the possibility existed, why would I be upset?



          Originally Posted by BobbyWalker View Post

          Basically if you're promoting an affiliate program and aren't offering
          some badass bonuses...someone you referred is going to get your
          commission...lol....is that ok with you?
          From your own reasoning, you guys better come up with some better bonuses

          Originally Posted by BobbyWalker View Post

          I know you guys have to be smarter than that...
          We should be smarter than that? lol - You and Adeel are all up in arms over the fact that you have the same amount of money in your pocket as you would have had with any affiliate referring that sale to you.
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        • Profile picture of the author RanD
          Originally Posted by BobbyWalker View Post

          OMG!

          I can't believe what I'm reading here!

          ok...ok

          I agree with the gravity and spreading the word..blah blah blah

          All that is fine and good..

          BUT..

          ARE NONE OF YOU PROMOTING AFFILIATE PROGRAMS ON CLICKBANK?

          And if so, can you imagine if this is the mindset of thousands of people and you are trying to make affiliate sales for yourself?

          How in the hell can you think this is ok?

          If you owned a store, it would be ok, if you rang up the
          purchase and the guy only gave you 50% of the total?

          Add that up over the course of a day!

          Basically if you're promoting an affiliate program and aren't offering
          some badass bonuses...someone you referred is going to get your
          commission...lol....is that ok with you?

          I know you guys have to be smarter than that...

          So bottom line is...it's ok to use your own link...unless
          you're trying to make an affiliate sale...lol

          -Bobby

          P.S. All you guys thinking it's ok to buy from your own affiliate link better spend some serious money on creating super bonus packages, cause obviously, the people you're sending through your affiliate link think it's ok too

          ..
          ..
          ..
          That is so short sighted. It's not stealing. They are getting paid to sell the book to themselves. You still make money, but they get a discount. The big thing is that you have no idea if they are just trying to scam you, or if they are truly looking to market your product. If they are looking to market your product, and you call them a thief and lose their sale, you potentially lose thousands of other sales that they may have brought you. That potential loss is not worth making a fuss over a few dollars lost on a single sale.

          .....unless your product sucks. Then I could see why you would fret over every individual sale. If you know that they won't be promoting it after they buy it, then, of course, you will be losing money. If that is the case, I would suggest making a better product. If you have a good product then you will certainly win in the long run by having happy affiliates.

          You are in affiliate marketing. If you want to sell your product one at a time, take it out of clickbank and rely on your own sales page. If you want to expand you sales exponentially you would do well not to call your potential sales force thieves.

          You are worrying about a single sale when you should be thinking in terms of thousands of potential sales. That is small time thinking.
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      • Profile picture of the author reapr
        I do not see it as a problem. I think CB should put a limit on it of sorts like you can only buy through your own link once for every 2-3 sales.

        Regardless a sale is a sale and generates profit. Would I tell a customer they are stealing in this situation ... NO. I would just get over it and move on.

        So why do people buy through their own link?

        Well to save money!

        The reason I buy most CD products are for evaluation purposes when I have heard it is a worthy product and the creator or author will not give out an evaluation product. It is not that unusual for a creator/author to contact me when successfully selling a competitors product and offer theirs for review free.

        I would say for every 20-30 CB product I sell one is bought for review through my own link.

        So now what you have to ask yourself is the reason the person bought the product ... it may have been to save some money ... or to possibly to promote it!

        If I was buying through my own link for evaluation then got accused of stealing guess who's product would get marketed and get a good review!
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  • Profile picture of the author Hamida Harland
    I wouldn't mind because I know you can't avoid it with Clickbank - however I WOULD be peeved if they were cheeky enough to ask for credit.

    why have a Clickbank ID that is your name?
    My very first Clickbank account had my name (I was young and innocent back then and didn't know any better) - I didn't purchase products through my link though :rolleyes:.
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  • Profile picture of the author Curt Dillion
    I feel like I'm missing something here. My initial response would be, "who cares?" As the owner of the product you would get the same amount, regardless of whose link they used, unless you expect them to purchase directly through your link.

    Everyone wants to save money. The fact that they even have a Clickbank ID shows that they are at least somewhat involved in making money through Internet Marketing. The effect of purchasing through their own link is to make that commission. It seems to me that anyone who wouldn't use their own link is a bit stupid.
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    • Profile picture of the author fizfaz
      Originally Posted by Curt Dillion View Post

      I feel like I'm missing something here. My initial response would be, "who cares?" As the owner of the product you would get the same amount, regardless of whose link they used, unless you expect them to purchase directly through your link.

      Everyone wants to save money. The fact that they even have a Clickbank ID shows that they are at least somewhat involved in making money through Internet Marketing. The effect of purchasing through their own link is to make that commission. It seems to me that anyone who wouldn't use their own link is a bit stupid.
      Yes.. I think I also want to know what's the different because if they purchase from others people link, the product owner still get the same amount.
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      • Profile picture of the author Adeel_Chowdhry
        Originally Posted by fizfaz View Post

        Yes.. I think I also want to know what's the different because if they purchase from others people link, the product owner still get the same amount.
        Ordering through yourself means you get yourself a rebate, not a commission.

        If they were to buy through somebody else's link, the referring affiliate would be credited for their efforts, i.e. commission, and i'd be happy with the 40%..

        Maybe it's just me and that i'm bugged with losing at least 50k?

        Adeel
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        • Profile picture of the author jimh1626
          Originally Posted by Adeel_Chowdhry View Post

          Ordering through yourself means you get yourself a rebate, not a commission.

          If they were to buy through somebody else's link, the referring affiliate would be credited for their efforts, i.e. commission, and i'd be happy with the 40%..

          Maybe it's just me and that i'm bugged with losing at least 50k?

          Adeel
          How do you figure you're losing 50K?
          Is it a 100K product?
          Most people won't buy through their own link.
          Just accept it as another sale.

          Jim
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        • Profile picture of the author Tsnyder
          Originally Posted by Adeel_Chowdhry View Post

          Ordering through yourself means you get yourself a rebate, not a commission.

          If they were to buy through somebody else's link, the referring affiliate would be credited for their efforts, i.e. commission, and i'd be happy with the 40%..

          Maybe it's just me and that i'm bugged with losing at least 50k?

          Adeel
          I think your mindset needs some tuning up...

          How have you lost $50K by some person buying
          your product... even at a discount?

          Stop with the poverty/scarcity mindset and thank
          God someone wanted to pay real money for your product.

          Sheesh...

          Tsnyder
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          • Profile picture of the author reapr
            To the OP ...

            Things to really consider.

            You have to ask what a customer is worth!

            A customer can be a person who may have not have found your product usefull but knows someone that will.

            If your in the IM or make money niche how did you get such good gravity? Through people who never buy through their own link and have no desire to promote such a product? ... uh hummm

            Was you high gravity the result of people who buy products in your niche from what you would define as 'ethical sales'?

            Then next person who purchases through their own link may be you next best affiliate!

            Many products I have purchased through my own links I have been able to make a profit from the sales of 250-300 so the vendor was making much more so I rarely promote products that pay less than 50% most are 60-75%... Those figures are based on a day.

            Does the processor of your product not support your core beliefs ... if not find another.

            Ok if your interested I would love to review your product sounds like it may be worth reviewing due to the high gravity. If your interested please PM me with a download link to an evaluation copy.
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          • Profile picture of the author EmmaJames
            Whew, hot thread...

            I typically buy through another's affiliate link
            simple because we are all out here trying to
            make some cash and the day that I decide
            to purchase could give that person that added
            boost not to quit IM...

            I'm probably one of the few who never thought
            about purchasing through my own affiliate link.

            Looks like I'm doing it backwards, I purchase the
            product before I decide to promote it. It's usually
            something I really want anyway and will personally
            use.

            That's probably the difference in my mindset.

            And I have no intention if changing my own personal
            buying practices, like I said, I buy b/c I'm gonna use
            the product myself. And then if I feel like promoting it
            I will.

            But from the looks of it, buying through your own
            affiliate link is common practice - and most marketers
            don't mind.

            Like you, I'd probably be bugged about it in the beginning,
            after crunching the numbers. But I'd take a different
            approach.

            Words have power so I'd get my affirmation going that
            I only attract those who are of my highest good and the
            highest good of all concerned
            ...

            Then no matter what, it wouldn't bother me. I'd trust that
            those buying my products were attracted for both of our
            highest goods...

            But, that's me - always taking a Law Of Attraction Approach!
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            • Profile picture of the author reapr
              I should add if I found the product through a respected marketer or an email list I will purchase it through affiliate links. I think that is only fair.

              If I did the research and discovered the product through my own efforts or research and request an evaluation copy and it is not supplied or in some cases the request is ignored then I will purchase through though my own link.
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  • Profile picture of the author waken
    And if it was selling via CB, that increases your gravity..not bad.
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    • Profile picture of the author Adeel_Chowdhry
      Originally Posted by waken View Post

      And if it was selling via CB, that increases your gravity..not bad.
      That's 1 point I agree on with you... sure it'll increase gravity.

      But as a marketer (as I'm sure you are too), our job is to try and increase conversions and make more money (duh!), whilst providing the best product and service of course..

      ..yes I can see how people buying through their own links can help your gravity and even end up promoting it to their own list (if they had one)..which will just make you more cash in the end.. but I'm trying to find every hole that I can tighten to try and generate more revenue for my business.. and this is one issue I have.

      Adeel
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      $1,000,000+ in sales already! Promote #1 software online: SqribbleJV.com
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      • Profile picture of the author waken
        Originally Posted by Adeel_Chowdhry View Post

        That's 1 point I agree on with you... sure it'll increase gravity.

        But as a marketer (as I'm sure you are too), our job is to try and increase conversions and make more money (duh!), whilst providing the best product and service of course..

        ..yes I can see how people buying through their own links can help your gravity and even end up promoting it to their own list (if they had one)..which will just make you more cash in the end.. but I'm trying to find every hole that I can tighten to try and generate more revenue for my business.. and this is one issue I have.

        Adeel
        All right Adeel, I understand your frustration and has no intention to make you feel worse but as your business grows, you'll agree with me and the majority here that it's not a big deal and it's something that you have to accept and move on some bigger issue. Really.. period. And sorry for the bad day you had. Cheers man! Forget it.
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        • Profile picture of the author Adeel_Chowdhry
          Originally Posted by waken View Post

          All right Adeel, I understand your frustration and has no intention to make you feel worse but as your business grows, you'll agree with me and the majority here that it's not a big deal and it's something that you have to accept and move on some bigger issue. Really.. period. And sorry for the bad day you had. Cheers man! Forget it.

          Well I'm not going to lose sleep over it, LOL.. just wanted to see what other people thought.

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  • Profile picture of the author Saul'
    Clickbank doesn't just give away one time commission. One has to pass a certain threshold and once they do, they are a potential affiliate for you. Some affiliates test the tracking that way.

    Another thing is, anyone in their right mind would not pass a 'discount' that is there for the taking, and no rules preventing them from it. You are here to make money, so are they - and everything is still within the rules. If it was otherwise, you'd be able to shut them down. However, it's not.

    So really, I don't see any problem with that. It is what it is - if that doesn't go along well with your business plans, you can always choose a different network.

    And oh by the way, stealing is an act of taking property that one has no right to. Clickbank's policy doesn't say anything about affiliates not having a right to buy through themselves though.
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    Saul

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  • Profile picture of the author Neil Kieren
    I think that alot of affiliates do this regardless! it actually gives some of them an incentive to buy, because its 'discounted' for them! But it says in CB's T&C's that you cannot buy through your own affiliate link, so I wonder how long it will take them to notice!
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    • Profile picture of the author Harvey Segal
      Originally Posted by Neil Kieren View Post

      But it says in CB's T&C's that you cannot buy through your own affiliate link, so I wonder how long it will take them to notice!
      It doesn't say that.

      See
      https://www.clickbank.com/affiliate_...ff_question_24

      Harvey


      .
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      • Profile picture of the author webpromotions
        Originally Posted by Harvey.Segal View Post

        That page may not say that you arent ABLE to do this, but it clearly states that you shouldn't.

        (from that link)
        "That is, affiliates should not be using their own HopLinks to purchase products for themselves and then collect a "rebate" check from ClickBank."

        Straight from Clickbank....seems pretty clear to me what their position on this practice is.
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        • Profile picture of the author Martin Avis
          Originally Posted by Doug English View Post

          That page may not say that you arent ABLE to do this, but it clearly states that you shouldn't.

          (from that link)
          "That is, affiliates should not be using their own HopLinks to purchase products for themselves and then collect a "rebate" check from ClickBank."

          Straight from Clickbank....seems pretty clear to me what their position on this practice is.
          The quote above (from ClickBank's TOS) is taken out of context. The 'that is' sentence is intended as a clarification of the preceding line in the TOS, which reads:

          As stated in our Accounting Policy, "ClickBank accounts cannot be used for the sole purpose of collecting rebates or otherwise extending credit to yourself or others."
          The bolding is mine.

          Taken in its entirety, item #24 of ClickBank's Affiliate FAQ is acknowledging that one can buy products using your own affiliate link, but if that is your only modus operandi, you won't end up getting the money because their requirement of accounts having five different purchase methods would prevent your commisions from being triggered.

          If ever Clickbank decide to ban the practice of people buying through their own links in order to get a commission - as part of an overall marketing strategy - then I'm sure coding the means to prevent it into the CB system would be trivial. But the fact that they don't, haven't, and imply very strongly in that FAQ #24 that it is okay if that isn't the only way you buy stuff from the marketplace, then I think we can all rest easy that it isn't a problem to them - and isn't something we can make go away anytime soon.

          As a vendor it has never once bothered me that some people buy my products through their own links. In fact, I welcome it because I know from my own stats that a fair percentage of them go on to make a few sales on my behalf.

          Frankly, if those people had asked me for a free review copy, I'd have given it, so far from losing commission I am actually gaining it!

          Of those who don't go on to sell the product, I doubt that many, or any, of them would have bought at the full price anyway, so again, I'm not losing commission, but gaining some.

          I do have sympathy for the idea that the discount buyers could possibly be 'steaing' the commission from another affiliate - if they have already clicked to my sales page from someone else's link first. With my own affiliate hat on, I agree that such a scenario is annoying.

          However, again as an affiliate, I have to accept that the situation is largely out of my control. In fact, I may not be losing anything really because the buyer wasn't likely to buy though my link at the full price anyway. it is a theoretical loss only, and I don't have the time or inclination to spend my day worrying about hypothetical problems - there are enough real ones to deal with!

          In some markets I am what is loosly termed a super affiliate so I have a lot of experience of buying products at full price, buying through my own links and also of asking (or being sent) review copies.

          Here is how I personally work:

          1. If the product is recommended to me by one of my fellow marketers I will always use their link. No question.

          2. If I've found a product in the marketplace through my own efforts, whether I will buy at full price, use my own link or ask for a review copy depends entirely on two factors: if I want the product for myself and if I have a decent amount of time before I plan to review it.

          3. If I want it for myself, and am not under time pressure, I will happily pay full price - or ask for a review copy. The time factor comes in because some vendors can be pretty slow in replying and if I'm aiming to hit a deadline, I can't always wait foro them to check their emails.

          4. If I'm reviewing a product for my list and don't have a pre-formed opinion (other than an idea that I'm not particularly the target market) [e.g. the product is aimed at newbies] then I will either buy through my link, or if I have the time, ask for a review copy.

          Believe me, no vendor has ever complained when I've gone on to sell 100 or so copies of their book!

          When I come across products that I think are really bad, I will ask for a refund whether I've paid full price or used my own link. I don't do that very often, but it has happened. I think it is better for all concerned if I just remove my interest in this way than to start writing negative reviews. I like to tell my subscribers about what is really good, not waste their reading time by dissing the crap.

          As an affiliate, the best solution that I've come across to incentivize people to use my link rather than their own is to offer a desireable bonus to anyone who buys through my link. This can cut down the casual commission theft (if that is what it is) dramatically. But of course, short of ClickBbank banning the practice entirely, which is both unlikely and, for vendors, undesireable) nothing is going to stop it from happening.

          In the end, it is a fairly circular argument and one that depends almost entirely on whether you are a 'half glass full' or a 'glass half empty person'.

          I say take the money and don't sweat it! There are plenty more buyers out there!

          Martin
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          • Profile picture of the author Kim Standerline
            What he said

            Originally Posted by Martin.Avis View Post

            The quote above (from ClickBank's TOS) is taken out of context. The 'that is' sentence is intended as a clarification of the preceding line in the TOS, which reads:

            The bolding is mine.

            Taken in its entirety, item #24 of ClickBank's Affiliate FAQ is acknowledging that one can buy products using your own affiliate link, but if that is your only modus operandi, you won't end up getting the money because their requirement of accounts having five different purchase methods would prevent your commisions from being triggered.

            If ever Clickbank decide to ban the practice of people buying through their own links in order to get a commission - as part of an overall marketing strategy - then I'm sure coding the means to prevent it into the CB system would be trivial. But the fact that they don't, haven't, and imply very strongly in that FAQ #24 that it is okay if that isn't the only way you buy stuff from the marketplace, then I think we can all rest easy that it isn't a problem to them - and isn't something we can make go away anytime soon.

            As a vendor it has never once bothered me that some people buy my products through their own links. In fact, I welcome it because I know from my own stats that a fair percentage of them go on to make a few sales on my behalf.

            Frankly, if those people had asked me for a free review copy, I'd have given it, so far from losing commission I am actually gaining it!

            Of those who don't go on to sell the product, I doubt that many, or any, of them would have bought at the full price anyway, so again, I'm not losing commission, but gaining some.

            I do have sympathy for the idea that the discount buyers could possibly be 'steaing' the commission from another affiliate - if they have already clicked to my sales page from someone else's link first. With my own affiliate hat on, I agree that such a scenario is annoying.

            However, again as an affiliate, I have to accept that the situation is largely out of my control. In fact, I may not be losing anything really because the buyer wasn't likely to buy though my link at the full price anyway. it is a theoretical loss only, and I don't have the time or inclination to spend my day worrying about hypothetical problems - there are enough real ones to deal with!

            In some markets I am what is loosly termed a super affiliate so I have a lot of experience of buying products at full price, buying through my own links and also of asking (or being sent) review copies.

            Here is how I personally work:

            1. If the product is recommended to me by one of my fellow marketers I will always use their link. No question.

            2. If I've found a product in the marketplace through my own efforts, whether I will buy at full price, use my own link or ask for a review copy depends entirely on two factors: if I want the product for myself and if I have a decent amount of time before I plan to review it.

            3. If I want it for myself, and am not under time pressure, I will happily pay full price - or ask for a review copy. The time factor comes in because some vendors can be pretty slow in replying and if I'm aiming to hit a deadline, I can't always wait foro them to check their emails.

            4. If I'm reviewing a product for my list and don't have a pre-formed opinion (other than an idea that I'm not particularly the target market) [e.g. the product is aimed at newbies] then I will either buy through my link, or if I have the time, ask for a review copy.

            Believe me, no vendor has ever complained when I've gone on to sell 100 or so copies of their book!

            When I come across products that I think are really bad, I will ask for a refund whether I've paid full price or used my own link. I don't do that very often, but it has happened. I think it is better for all concerned if I just remove my interest in this way than to start writing negative reviews. I like to tell my subscribers about what is really good, not waste their reading time by dissing the crap.

            As an affiliate, the best solution that I've come across to incentivize people to use my link rather than their own is to offer a desireable bonus to anyone who buys through my link. This can cut down the casual commission theft (if that is what it is) dramatically. But of course, short of ClickBbank banning the practice entirely, which is both unlikely and, for vendors, undesireable) nothing is going to stop it from happening.

            In the end, it is a fairly circular argument and one that depends almost entirely on whether you are a 'half glass full' or a 'glass half empty person'.

            I say take the money and don't sweat it! There are plenty more buyers out there!

            Martin
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Adeel, your mindset on this is all wrong, sorry to say.

      These people who are buying through their affiliate link, were they not
      allowed to do so through Clickbank, wouldn't purchase your product at all.

      So you're not losing 50K.

      You're gaining 50K that you wouldn't have had otherwise.

      Hell, I wish I could find enough people to buy my Clickbank products
      through their own link. Hell, I'd paid 'em to do it. That way, my gravity
      climbs, my product goes higher up the CB marketplace, I get more affiliates
      and I make more money.

      Far be it for me to tell you how to think or feel, but if it were me, I'd
      be happy just to get the sale.

      But to each his own.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nicolaas Theron
    Simple hypothetical example of how this can hurt a merchant:

    Merchant runs a PPC campaign. He should get $60 straight per sale. His campaign costs him $200 per day, and he makes ten sales per day.

    That should be $600 -$200 = $400 profit per day.

    However, he offers 75% affiliate commission and every customer he gets through his own efforts and with his own advertising money decides to buy through their own affiliate link. Because hey, there's nothing wrong with that, right?

    That means instead of $60 per sale, the merchant is now making just $15 per sale, or $150 per day.

    Instead of $400 profit, he is now losing $50 per day. He's doing all the work, crunching all the numbers, paying for the ads all on his own, but the person who did nothing more than click on an Adwords link and then on an order link feels they deserve $45 of the merchant's money for their effort.

    I'm amazed to see that so many people have no problem with this.

    Would any of you have a problem with someone reaching Adeel's page through YOUR affiliate link, then clearing their cookies and buying through THEIR OWN affiliate link, screwing you our of your commission? Yes? So what's the difference between them screwing you out of YOUR commission and them screwing the merchant out of HIS legitimate part of the commission?

    I'd be interested to hear your opinions.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Nicolaas Theron View Post

      Simple hypothetical example of how this can hurt a merchant:

      Merchant runs a PPC campaign. He should get $60 straight per sale. His campaign costs him $200 per day, and he makes ten sales per day.

      That should be $600 -$200 = $400 profit per day.

      However, he offers 75% affiliate commission and every customer he gets through his own efforts and with his own advertising money decides to buy through their own affiliate link. Because hey, there's nothing wrong with that, right?

      That means instead of $60 per sale, the merchant is now making just $25 per sale, or $250 per day.

      Instead of $400 profit, he is now making just $50 profit per day. He's doing all the work, crunching all the numbers, paying for the ads all on his own, but the person who did nothing more than click on an Adwords link and then on an order link feels they deserve $45 of the merchant's money for their effort.

      I'm amazed to see that so many people have no problem with this.

      Would any of you have a problem with someone reaching Adeel's page through YOUR affiliate link, then clearing their cookies and buying through THEIR OWN affiliate link, screwing you our of your commission? Yes? So what's the difference between them screwing you out of YOUR commission and them screwing the merchant out of HIS legitimate part of the commission?

      I'd be interested to hear your opinions.

      Since I have my own products and am also an affiliate marketer, I feel
      I am qualified to answer this question.

      As a product creator, I don't care. Buy through your link. It's a sale I
      wouldn't have gotten.

      As an affiliate marketer, I don't promote few money products through
      Clickbank. I promote mostly outside of the make money niche because
      I know going in what Clickbank's policy is and therefore realize it's stupid,
      as an affiliate, to promote make money products. Too much affiliate theft.
      And yes, in that case, it is theft when you're taking from another affiliate.
      When I do promote a MMO product, I offer an incentive. More later.

      Truth of the matter is, because of the nature of affiliate marketing
      through Clickbank for make money products, all affiliates should boycott
      selling make money products because of this problem.

      Eventually, Clickbank would have no choice but to change their policy to
      one where you can't buy through your own link.

      Then what happens?

      Merchants lose tons of sales because of all the people who now can't buy
      through their own links.

      Given the two options, what do you think merchants will choose?

      I know what I would choose as a merchant, and it's not to change the
      policy. I'd end up losing money.

      Point is, as a merchant, you're not losing that much. Your example is
      extreme. Not everybody is going to purchase through their own link.
      And if you're worried, sell non IM products. You'll have almost zero theft,
      or whatever you want to call it.

      The system has flaws. There is no question about it. But it is what it is
      and until it's changed, there is no point getting upset about it. The only
      thing you can do is try to optimize the situation.

      As a merchant, sell only non IM products or at least only sell non IM
      products through PPC and let affiliates sell your IM products.

      As an affiliate, only promote non IM products OR...give incentives for
      people to buy the product through YOUR link. I do it all the time, offering
      my own products as an incentive if somebody buys through my link. I
      make many sales because of this for the few MMO products I promote,
      which I can probably count on one hand.

      The reason the system will continue to operate as it does is because
      merchants and affiliates alike tolerate it. They don't band together to
      force change. So as long as this apathy continues, Clickbank will continue
      to allow people to purchase through their own link.

      If you want it to change...YOU have to force the issue.

      And yes, if enough people got together to do that, things would change.

      Or have you never heard of a revolution?

      They can be quite effective.
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      • Profile picture of the author Harvey Segal
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Given the two options, what do you think merchants will choose?
        The ideal situation would be that each merchant (vendor)
        could choose whether or not he wants to allow affiliates
        to buy though their own link.

        Harvey


        .
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by Harvey.Segal View Post

          The ideal situation would be that each merchant (vendor)
          could choose whether or not he wants to allow affiliates
          to buy though their own link.

          Harvey


          .

          Yes Harvey, that would be the ideal situation but do you think that's
          something Clickbank would implement?

          And if so, how? That's still additional coding that would have to be
          woven into their system.

          My gut tells me that with Clickbank it will be an all or nothing approach,
          though I could be wrong.

          Harvey, you have a lot of pull there (so I'm told). Would you be willing
          to bring this up to them?

          Do you think it would do any good?

          Just looking for answers here.
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        • Profile picture of the author Rob Anderson
          Originally Posted by Harvey.Segal View Post

          The ideal situation would be that each merchant (vendor)
          could choose whether or not he wants to allow affiliates
          to buy though their own link.

          Harvey


          .
          quite right, and i choose to let them buy with their own link.
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    • Profile picture of the author UKTim29
      Originally Posted by Nicolaas Theron View Post

      Simple hypothetical example of how this can hurt a merchant:

      Merchant runs a PPC campaign. He should get $60 straight per sale. His campaign costs him $200 per day, and he makes ten sales per day.

      That should be $600 -$200 = $400 profit per day.

      However, he offers 75% affiliate commission and every customer he gets through his own efforts and with his own advertising money decides to buy through their own affiliate link. Because hey, there's nothing wrong with that, right?

      That means instead of $60 per sale, the merchant is now making just $15 per sale, or $150 per day.

      Instead of $400 profit, he is now losing $50 per day. He's doing all the work, crunching all the numbers, paying for the ads all on his own, but the person who did nothing more than click on an Adwords link and then on an order link feels they deserve $45 of the merchant's money for their effort.

      I'm amazed to see that so many people have no problem with this.
      Surely if you're in the IM niche and have a clickbank product you'd factor people buying the product through their own link seeing they'll have IM knowledge anyway?

      To come up with the figures you have is just poor business practice because you haven't considered all the possibilities.
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    • Profile picture of the author Adeel_Chowdhry
      Originally Posted by Nicolaas Theron View Post

      Simple hypothetical example of how this can hurt a merchant:

      Merchant runs a PPC campaign. He should get $60 straight per sale. His campaign costs him $200 per day, and he makes ten sales per day.

      That should be $600 -$200 = $400 profit per day.

      However, he offers 75% affiliate commission and every customer he gets through his own efforts and with his own advertising money decides to buy through their own affiliate link. Because hey, there's nothing wrong with that, right?

      That means instead of $60 per sale, the merchant is now making just $15 per sale, or $150 per day.

      Instead of $400 profit, he is now losing $50 per day. He's doing all the work, crunching all the numbers, paying for the ads all on his own, but the person who did nothing more than click on an Adwords link and then on an order link feels they deserve $45 of the merchant's money for their effort.

      I'm amazed to see that so many people have no problem with this.

      Would any of you have a problem with someone reaching Adeel's page through YOUR affiliate link, then clearing their cookies and buying through THEIR OWN affiliate link, screwing you our of your commission? Yes? So what's the difference between them screwing you out of YOUR commission and them screwing the merchant out of HIS legitimate part of the commission?

      I'd be interested to hear your opinions.
      Just got back on... and so many replies!

      ---

      YES Nicolaas!

      This is the way I was seeing it too, I thought it was only me..

      Why should people get a hefty discount, for all of my efforts (ad spend + time).

      Heck, I'm sure many of these buyers actually came through someone else... thus losing that affiliate their rightful commission!

      Well, at least I got my 40% and I shouldn't moan :confused:

      Adeel
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by Nicolaas Theron View Post

      Instead of $400 profit, he is now losing $50 per day. He's doing all the work, crunching all the numbers, paying for the ads all on his own,
      ...and he is BAD AT MATH.

      Never, ever, EVER assume you will make even one single sale that doesn't pay a commission to an affiliate.

      If your numbers don't look good under those conditions, they are the wrong numbers. Go back to the drawing board and fix it.

      When you do make the odd sale that doesn't pay a commission, you've won a small prize in the internet lottery. Clap your hands and do a little dance, but NEVER count on it happening again.
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      • Profile picture of the author E-Newbies
        Just my 2 cents but vendors bring allot of this onto themselves & cost regular affiliates 1,000's of dollars by aggressively promoting their affiliate programs.

        If you are selling a product & don't want people buying through their own links the last thing you should be doing is advertising an affiliate program on the sales page - People may just sign up & buy through their own link:rolleyes:

        Personally I wont promote any products via PPC that have prominent affiliate sign-ups.

        Clickbank is unlikely to change or enforce any policy related to this issue as it will cost them sales & money.

        If you have an issue with clickbank dont use them. Run your own affiliate script & set a min payout = to more than 1 sale, Or only allow customers to be affiliates

        Products are on clickbank for one reason only to get exposure to as many affiliates as possible, consider "own link" purchases as a business expense for the exposure you are receiving.
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  • Profile picture of the author pizzatherapy
    Thanks Steven.

    I have gone back and forth with this idea of click bank affiliates buying through their own link.
    I have several click bank products and have always wondered about losing money.

    You finally put it totally in perspective for me. I'm not losing money: I'm getting a sale.

    You just made a sale you might not have made. So your glass is always half full. Great concept. And great way of looking at this issue.

    If you are really concerned about losing affiliate sales, I'd suggest using the RAP script.
    With RAP the product owner gets paid frist and the affiliate gets paid on the second sale.
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  • Profile picture of the author Trader54
    Originally Posted by Adeel_Chowdhry View Post


    I mean, if you're going to steal from someone, at least be a bit discreet about it! I told him what he's just done is as if you've robbed someone and then called up the victim to let them know who you are!
    I have products on clickbank and have no problem with someone buying through their own ID. As some others have stated here I would also prefer clickbank to leave it that way.

    Currently it is not against their TOS so no one is stealing anything.

    I think your coming on here and calling someone a thief is worse then what they did. They did nothing illegal.
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  • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
    Adeel,

    Since it's stated in the ClickBank TOS that you can, I don't worry about it. However, for the person you are talking about I would:

    1. Ask them in the ticket system if they are only getting a refund because they didn't get the "affiliate" credit.

    2. Forward the email to ClickBank. They may just blacklist him from future purchases or close his account.

    Garrie
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    • Profile picture of the author Adeel_Chowdhry
      Originally Posted by GarrieWilson View Post

      Adeel,

      Since it's stated in the ClickBank TOS that you can, I don't worry about it. However, for the person you are talking about I would:

      1. Ask them in the ticket system if they are only getting a refund because they didn't get the "affiliate" credit.

      2. Forward the email to ClickBank. They may just blacklist him from future purchases or close his account.

      Garrie
      Thanks for the feedback Garrie.

      Although I'm not going to persue that avenue.. not worth it to be honest.

      Maybe one day he'll understand.. or not.

      Best,
      Adeel
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  • Profile picture of the author activetrader
    Everyone knows that people buy through their links. Not buying through your own link is dumb as far as I am concerned. It also benefits the vendor by increasing gravity. I don't have a problem with it. Also, some newbie affiliates buy products they intend on recommending so that they can review them because some people don't know that they can ask for a review copy, and maybe they don't have enough credibility to ask for a review copy, or the vendor refused a review copy.

    Why do you think IM products have such high gravity especially during the launch? Obviously because everyone buys through their links
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  • Profile picture of the author ptone
    I don't understand the problem. When you decided on a price for your product and the commission that you would pay out, you had a good idea of the profit you would make per sale.

    This is all you should expect to make because it is the way CB has its system set up. If this is a problem, then you should use a different system than CB...one that doesn't allow this.

    Otherwise, you should have priced your product accordingly.
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  • Profile picture of the author Gail Sober
    To me, the scariest part of this is

    I just purchased your product through my affiliate link.. but didn't get credit
    Tracking issues again??

    Other than that... a sale is a sale is a sale
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  • Profile picture of the author Mangozoom
    Personally I have absolutely no problem with this whatsoever. I just hate the serial refund purchasers ... i.e. they buy the goods, download and just request a refund.

    Not good ... that is stealing
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    • Profile picture of the author activetrader
      Originally Posted by Mangozoom View Post

      Personally I have absolutely no problem with this whatsoever. I just hate the serial refund purchasers ... i.e. they buy the goods, download and just request a refund.

      Not good ... that is stealing
      This is what I have an issue with as well, when people buy multiple products of yours and get a refund for all of them; it's like, if my product sucks so bad you have to ask for a refund then why do you keep buying my products???
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  • Profile picture of the author Anewbist
    Any sales person or affiliate would test the product to see if they like it or pass it on to their list of buyers. That is good common sense. As an affiliate I believe that you should demo or have a review of the merchandise yourself before promoting it to your list or buyers. How many times have someone purchase a product and it did not do what it calms to do.
    Or you promoted a product and it had a high refund rate. Or you purchase the product to find that it would be more time consuming to use verses another product.
    For instance the list of synonyms that you have is not geared to the affiliate marketer that want to post quality content.
    And on the other hand you can get feedback from affiliates and comments to improve the product like a bulk word importer for the synonyms. And commonly used terms and slang terms.
    It is a good product, but there is room for improvement. And as you see the value of the product. And make the improvements like market samurai. Affiliate marketers would regard it as one of the best article writers out there that is based on their own opinion.
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  • Profile picture of the author mikemcmillan
    I hear both sides and think it's a tough call. Adeel, I had a person a month or so ago buy a CB product of mine. Okay, fine. They bought it through their affiliate link. Still, I can live with that. Then they email me and say they are having problems getting one of the files to download--okay, so I email them the file and it opens for them just fine. Then I get an email asking if they could get a free bonus I used to offer, but no longer do with the product. Arghhh! Okay, so I send them the bonus by email. You know the rest of the story--the next day a get a refund notice from CB. Ya know, I did everything but drive 1,000 miles and mow their lawn and do their laundry for them--and then they want a refund!

    I think that gave me the feeling you have with what you are talking about Adeel. I don't personally order CB stuff with my own affiliate link with the following exception. If I am going to promote the product myself I feel no hesitation in doing so. I may have set up a free blog to do this, but more likely I have purchased a domain name for it and hosted in on one of my accounts. I will have several hours of work into the pre-sell page and many more in doing all of the SEO stuff.

    I am taking a chance on the product and I have invested time and money in getting things set up. To my way of thinking, there is nothing wrong with buying through my link when doing this. I don't go out begging vendors for free copies promising to promote them. But I have no guilt about buying through my own links if I intend on promoting it.

    I can't tell you how many times I have had people ask me for free copies of ebooks saying they want to promote it, and after sending them a copy never getting a thank you or any recognition at all. That sticks in my craw so I quit doing it.

    It's an imperfect world. What I'd like to see CB do is to somehow check IP addresses or something and if the person placing an order has asked for a refund for more than 2-3 products--block them from making more purchases. And, like Steven said, having the option of allowing affiliates to buy through their own links or not would be a great option--but I don't see CB going that route.
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  • Profile picture of the author jaypick
    I don't see the problem at all. Your still getting your cut and some guy who probably hasn't accomplished what you have is just trying to save what money he has right now. I'll never understand why some people are doing good now, turn around and knit pick. I also don't understand how they want people to promote their affiliate link and then have websites with strict rules on affiliate links. I think they forgot where they came from or already lived on easy street to begin with.

    I have even seen a guy who tells you how to be successful at the clickbank system and encourages you to post comments on peoples blogs, but on his own blog the comments are closed. It's new and maybe it will change, but I found that kinda strange.

    If you have a CB Mall, they actually encourage you to make sure you cookie yourself before you buy something and there is even a link to test for this. Link is in sig box.
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  • Profile picture of the author Wakunahum
    Well more than likely you would make less money if affiliates couldn't buy from themselves cause they wouldn't want to pay the full cost and not buy at all.

    So you are probably coming out on top as it is.
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    • Profile picture of the author Adeel_Chowdhry
      Originally Posted by Wakunahum View Post

      Well more than likely you would make less money if affiliates couldn't buy from themselves cause they wouldn't want to pay the full cost and not buy at all.

      So you are probably coming out on top as it is.
      I believe that if your marketing is strong enough (making them want it bad), a good porportion *WILL* buy at the regular price (if buying through your own link was banned)...
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  • Profile picture of the author David McGimpsey
    Adeel,

    The guy has more front than Harrods for contacting you and saying "make sure I get commission".

    Having said that, affiliates buying through their own link is a fact of life with Clickbank.

    I would look at it this way, "Cool, my gravity is going up, I'll attract more affiliates."

    You could also look at it like this:

    "If that affiliate couldn't buy through his own link, I wouldn't have made that sale at all."
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    • Profile picture of the author Adeel_Chowdhry
      Originally Posted by David McGimpsey View Post

      Adeel,

      The guy has more front than Harrods for contacting you and saying "make sure I get commission".

      Having said that, affiliates buying through their own link is a fact of life with Clickbank.

      I would look at it this way, "Cool, my gravity is going up, I'll attract more affiliates."

      You could also look at it like this:

      "If that affiliate couldn't buy through his own link, I wouldn't have made that sale at all."
      That's a great way to look at it in a positive light.

      Cheers David
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  • Profile picture of the author Scott Ames
    Where buying through your own link crosses the line is if another affiliate introduces you to the product, you want it, so you buy through your link instead of theirs. This is especially bad if you clicked on an Adwords ad first and that's how you found the product.
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    • Profile picture of the author Harvey Segal
      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

      And yes, in that case, it is theft when you're taking from another affiliate.
      Steven.

      I see an inconsistency here.

      You rightly say it's theft - presumably because the original affiliate
      has put the effort into promoting the product.

      Now, ignoring the technicality that a vendor might
      not use a hoplink, we could still say that when selling
      from his own site he is an affiliate for his own product
      and just like other affiliates he puts in effort
      to promote it.

      So why is it not classed as theft if you purchase
      with your own affiliate id from the vendor
      (without his permission) ?

      Originally Posted by Scott Ames View Post

      Where buying through your own link crosses the line is if another affiliate introduces you to the product, you want it, so you buy through your link instead of theirs. This is especially bad if you clicked on an Adwords ad first and that's how you found the product.
      I agree - but as above should the same argument not apply to the vendor ?


      Harvey


      .
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Originally Posted by Harvey.Segal View Post

        Steven.

        I see an inconsistency here.

        You rightly say it's theft - presumably because the original affiliate
        has put the effort into promoting the product.

        Now, ignoring the technicality that a vendor might
        not use a hoplink, we could still say that when selling
        from his own site he is an affiliate for his own product
        and just like other affiliates he puts in effort
        to promote it.

        So why is it not classed as theft if you purchase
        with your own affiliate id from the vendor
        (without his permission) ?

        .

        Harvey, you have a very valid point here.

        Honestly, this whole situation requires minds a lot more intelligent than
        mine to figure out a solution for.

        Personally, I think PayDotCom has the answer...not allowing affiliates
        to purchase through their own link.

        If I want a product for review purposes, I ask the merchant. If he says
        no, I don't promote it. To me, if he can't give me the product to review,
        given my reputation as a successful affiliate marketer, then he's not
        worth my time to promote.

        I still have no problem with an affiliate buying my product through their
        own link but I do have a problem if they steal the sale from another
        affiliate.

        Problem is, there is no way to differentiate between the two with
        Clickbank, which is why I believe that to solve this thing once and for
        all, Clickbank simply adopts PayDotCom's policy.

        Will that cause other problems?

        Of course.

        Fewer sales will be made because affiliates won't want to pay full price
        for their purchases.

        It's an imperfect world and there is no perfect solution to this problem. I
        would be foolish to even try to offer one.

        Bottom line is this.

        If you're a merchant and don't like Clickbank's policy, then simply don't
        use Clickbank. Outside of the MMO niche, it's not really a problem anyway
        except for affiliates who buy non MMO products just for review purposes.

        But since these aren't real customers anyway (they don't have the
        problem the product is solving) what does it matter? It's a sale you
        shouldn't have gotten in the first place.

        Anyway, like I said, I have no solutions to this mess that are going to
        make everybody happy.

        So pick your poison and learn to live with it.

        I do.
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        • Profile picture of the author Harvey Segal
          Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

          Honestly, this whole situation requires minds a lot more intelligent than
          mine to figure out a solution for.
          No problem, we have over 137,000 members here at the forum


          Harvey

          Sorry, couldn't resist.



          .
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        • Profile picture of the author Adeel_Chowdhry
          Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

          Harvey, you have a very valid point here.

          Honestly, this whole situation requires minds a lot more intelligent than
          mine to figure out a solution for.

          Personally, I think PayDotCom has the answer...not allowing affiliates
          to purchase through their own link.

          If I want a product for review purposes, I ask the merchant. If he says
          no, I don't promote it. To me, if he can't give me the product to review,
          given my reputation as a successful affiliate marketer, then he's not
          worth my time to promote.

          I still have no problem with an affiliate buying my product through their
          own link but I do have a problem if they steal the sale from another
          affiliate.

          Problem is, there is no way to differentiate between the two with
          Clickbank, which is why I believe that to solve this thing once and for
          all, Clickbank simply adopts PayDotCom's policy.

          Will that cause other problems?

          Of course.

          Fewer sales will be made because affiliates won't want to pay full price
          for their purchases.

          It's an imperfect world and there is no perfect solution to this problem. I
          would be foolish to even try to offer one.

          Bottom line is this.

          If you're a merchant and don't like Clickbank's policy, then simply don't
          use Clickbank. Outside of the MMO niche, it's not really a problem anyway
          except for affiliates who buy non MMO products just for review purposes.

          But since these aren't real customers anyway (they don't have the
          problem the product is solving) what does it matter? It's a sale you
          shouldn't have gotten in the first place.

          Anyway, like I said, I have no solutions to this mess that are going to
          make everybody happy.

          So pick your poison and learn to live with it.

          I do.
          This was an interesting post between yourself and Harvey!..

          Since I could say that I spent a lot of time and effort promoting my product, only for the buyer to get a hefty discount for which he did nothing for! ...and if they were referred by an affiliate yet cleared their cookies.. that poor affiliate lost out.

          Now people are saying a sale is a sale... but I want the sales at full price!

          People only buy through their links because they can..

          I personally would love it if Clickbank banned this practise, even though many will say 'you'd lose sales'... but I don't necessarily think so because your marketing should be so good that they'd even go get a job and save up the extra $$$ to buy it!

          Best regards,
          Adeel
          Signature
          $1,000,000+ in sales already! Promote #1 software online: SqribbleJV.com
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  • Profile picture of the author Damien Roche
    It's a gray area....I've never done it, but It's never really occurred to me I could be saving up to 75% of nearly any IM product I buy...really, can anyone say no to that?

    So, in effect, *any* product with an affiliate program is leaving open a back door for big discounts for anyone who buys.

    I can certainly see why someone would go to the trouble of using their own affiliate id.

    Who's losing money anyway? Nobody..

    Of course, this currently only affects the IM niche and people who are knowledgeable about affiliate programs.

    Now, this would a far bigger problem if somebody created a toolbar of sorts that opened an account on the big affiliate networks then notified you if you stumbled upon a product site which had an affiliate program you were affiliated to...wow...that would destroy some online sales.
    Signature
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  • Profile picture of the author mr2monster
    Makes no difference...

    If 1000 people signed up and bought through their own link, you'd be receiving 40% per sale for all 1000 sales...

    On the other hand, if one person referred 1000 people through his own link.... you'd still only be receiving 40% of those sales.

    It's 6 in one hand, half a dozen in the other.



    I also want to point out that you just pretty much slapped a CUSTOMER in the face by emailing him that. No wonder he refunded. What ever happened to "The customer is always right"?

    You don't even know why he was buying the product....

    If I buy a product from clickbank, you bet you ass I buy it through my own affiliate link. Why wouldn't I? If the product is good, I will promote it.

    In fact, most of the products I review I purchase through my own affiliate link simply because I want the ability to actually see a product in order to review it. I want the ability to give it an unbiased review because i PAID for it and feel like I had the right to say if it sucks if it does (as opposed to sellers buttering me up with a free one or something). Most of the time, a seller doesn't know that I'm reviewing their product, and I like it that way.


    I think that people that get all bent out of shape because someone BOUGHT a product from them, for a discount that they're willing to accept from any other affiliate sale is retarded. The bottom line is that they're an affiliate, they should get the pricing affiliates get.

    You've probably got plenty of "affiliates" that have only ever sold one copy of your product and given up. What's the difference?



    On top of all of that.... You're worrying about the wrong part of your business. You're getting in a tizzy about ONE customer and losing sight of the big picture (more customers).



    /rant
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    • Profile picture of the author Adeel_Chowdhry
      Originally Posted by mr2monster View Post

      Makes no difference...

      If 1000 people signed up and bought through their own link, you'd be receiving 40% per sale for all 1000 sales...

      On the other hand, if one person referred 1000 people through his own link.... you'd still only be receiving 40% of those sales.

      It's 6 in one hand, half a dozen in the other.



      I also want to point out that you just pretty much slapped a CUSTOMER in the face by emailing him that. No wonder he refunded. What ever happened to "The customer is always right"?

      You don't even know why he was buying the product....

      If I buy a product from clickbank, you bet you ass I buy it through my own affiliate link. Why wouldn't I? If the product is good, I will promote it.

      In fact, most of the products I review I purchase through my own affiliate link simply because I want the ability to actually see a product in order to review it. I want the ability to give it an unbiased review because i PAID for it and feel like I had the right to say if it sucks if it does (as opposed to sellers buttering me up with a free one or something). Most of the time, a seller doesn't know that I'm reviewing their product, and I like it that way.


      I think that people that get all bent out of shape because someone BOUGHT a product from them, for a discount that they're willing to accept from any other affiliate sale is retarded. The bottom line is that they're an affiliate, they should get the pricing affiliates get.

      You've probably got plenty of "affiliates" that have only ever sold one copy of your product and given up. What's the difference?



      On top of all of that.... You're worrying about the wrong part of your business. You're getting in a tizzy about ONE customer and losing sight of the big picture (more customers).



      /rant

      Tizzy, this isn't just about 1 particular customer.. it's a recurring trend that i'm seeing continuously, hence my initial post here to get the outlook from other marketers and how they feel about this practise.

      Also, it's NOT just about going to get more customers... but maximizing conversions and getting the most out of those you already have.

      "The customer is always right"

      Maybe the customer doesn't know what's best for them!

      Best,
      Adeel
      Signature
      $1,000,000+ in sales already! Promote #1 software online: SqribbleJV.com
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      • Profile picture of the author NickiOZJ
        Many affiliates are trained to purchase through their own affiliate link, both on their own product and others. This ensures that your tracking links are working and that the buying experience is smooth for your customers. Adeel, I've been following you for a while now, but I think you are making way too big a deal about this. Think of it this way; this is a sale you may not have had otherwise. Besides, if you approach the world with an abundance mindset you may just find that things are easier and more profitable than you can imagine. In a word: Relax.
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        • Profile picture of the author Adeel_Chowdhry
          Originally Posted by NickiOZJ View Post

          Many affiliates are trained to purchase through their own affiliate link, both on their own product and others. This ensures that your tracking links are working and that the buying experience is smooth for your customers. Adeel, I've been following you for a while now, but I think you are making way too big a deal about this. Think of it this way; this is a sale you may not have had otherwise. Besides, if you approach the world with an abundance mindset you may just find that things are easier and more profitable than you can imagine. In a word: Relax.
          Maybe I am making a big deal out of this?...

          Let's just see where this goes....

          Adeel
          Signature
          $1,000,000+ in sales already! Promote #1 software online: SqribbleJV.com
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      • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
        Originally Posted by Adeel_Chowdhry View Post

        Tizzy, this isn't just about 1 particular customer.. it's a recurring trend that i'm seeing continuously, hence my initial post here to get the outlook from other marketers and how they feel about this practise.

        Also, it's NOT just about going to get more customers... but maximizing conversions and getting the most out of those you already have.

        Believe me, when you're closing in on half a million dollars in sales in a few of weeks or so, these extra 'stolen/lost/hijacked' sales would make a nice chunk of change more! .. and please don't say i'm greedy - WE'RE MARKETERS, so wake up!

        "I want the ability to give it an unbiased review because i PAID for it.."

        ..well you didn't pay full price for it.

        "The customer is always right"

        Maybe the customer doesn't know what's best for them!

        Best,
        Adeel
        WOW.

        Are you serious?
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      • Profile picture of the author Karen Blundell
        Originally Posted by Adeel_Chowdhry View Post

        "The customer is always right"

        Maybe the customer doesn't know what's best for them!

        Best,
        Adeel
        I'm speechless! You are digging yourself in a very deep grave. I wonder how many potential customers are reading this thread?
        :confused:
        Signature
        ---------------
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  • Profile picture of the author worlok
    Let me chime in here. Look, if I do that, and I do, I am doing it so that I can learn about the product in order to PROMOTE IT and hopefully make myself AND the creator lots more money. What is it with product creators who don't understand this? ...and to call it "stealing"....
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  • Profile picture of the author RanD
    Originally Posted by Adeel_Chowdhry View Post

    Now we all know that people DO buy through their own Clickbank Affiliate ID's... but do you think it's acceptable?

    I mean, just a few days back I got a really shocking email...

    This guy emails me and says, "I just purchased your product
    through my affiliate link.. but didn't get credit.. can you make
    sure I do".

    ..WHAT THE...!

    I mean, if you're going to steal from someone, at least be a bit discreet about it! I told him what he's just done is as if you've robbed someone and then called up the victim to let them know who you are!

    He then apologised... but then proceeded to refund his purchase (loser).

    Also, another thing that annoys me is if you are going to buy through your own link... why have a Clickbank ID that is your name? Are these people just generally thick.. or I guess it maybe that they just think it's okay to buy through yourself and receive a 60% discount that you're not entitled to?

    One could argue that..well at least I got 40% of that sale, and it's better than zero..

    ..but what do you think?

    I'll be saving this thread for future reference for myself and others in the future.

    Fire away your thoughts, thanks!

    Cheers,
    Adeel
    Honestly, I think you made way too big a deal out of it, and in the process, you may have screwed yourself out of future business. Many people will give their products away to affiliates in hopes that they will bring them future sales, and in fact many affiliates may ask for a free copy for evaluation. You have no idea what that person would have done. They may have been a legitimate affiliate looking to test your product. Sure, they got it at a discount (basically), but you still got a sale. Obviously they have some knowledge of IM and may have promoted your product in the future if they liked it. Doing what you did not only lost you his sale, but any potential sale that he may have brought you in the future as an affiliate. You also lost any chance of selling him on any future promotions. Not really worth it, in my opinion.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Never bothered me ... a sale is a sale. Clickbank makes it easy to do and it will be done, so why get all bothered about it?
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  • Profile picture of the author Shane Dolby
    Don't want people to buy through their own link than use a different avenue to collect your money.

    Shane
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
    If you would have called me a thief not only would I have refunded, but I would have told everyone that I knew what an ass you were to me.
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  • Profile picture of the author misterwrecker
    How about they buy from "my link" for "my competing product." Is that better?
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  • Profile picture of the author Nathan Denton
    Buying a product through your own affiliate link could be seen as a little underhanded by some but i think it is perfectly OK. The only catch here is if you have been referred to a product by a valid affiliate. That affiliate should be the one to receive a commission for your purchase. If you then change the referral link to include your affiliate ID then it is just stealing from the valid affiliate which I do not support.
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    Online marketing, offline marketing and various other things.
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    • Profile picture of the author Adeel_Chowdhry
      Originally Posted by Nathan Denton View Post

      Buying a product through your own affiliate link could be seen as a little underhanded by some but i think it is perfectly OK. The only catch here is if you have been referred to a product by a valid affiliate. That affiliate should be the one to receive a commission for your purchase. If you then change the referral link to include your affiliate ID then it is just stealing from the valid affiliate which I do not support.
      Harvey stated a good point Nathan..

      Affiliates spend effort and time in promoting the product... hence they get rightful credit for their efforts.

      You as a vendor may also spend the same time and effort promoting your product, so shouldn't you get full credit for your efforts?

      --

      This brings up another point...

      Buying through affiliates with the best bonus packages...

      Shouldn't the first affiliate who referred you get credit?


      Adeel
      Signature
      $1,000,000+ in sales already! Promote #1 software online: SqribbleJV.com
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  • Profile picture of the author ahlexis
    Something else to think about. Some people don't just test the purchase of the product, they test the support of the product as well. And if the sale goes through and they do not receive the credit and bring it up and the seller is snide about crediting the affiliate, it is entirely possible that what's going on in their mind is, "OK, this guy is being a jerk with me, what's he going to be like with my list when I refer them and they have some other customer service issue?"

    Let's say you buy something from the store. It's a canned good, so you don't really know for sure what you get until you open the can; the pretty picture on the outside is a optimistic suggestion, but not always the reality. You've bought four of them, perhaps to make a certain recipe. You get home and open the can and what's inside smells and tastes NASTY! Would you just suck it up and take the loss, dumping the other three good but unopened cans into the trash? Or would you take them back to the market and let them know the one that you did open was rotten and that you expect them to refund you on the three that you did not open?

    I say it like this because I had that exact thing happen to me. And what happened when I did the return blew me away and made me forever loyal to the store. The item cost less than a dollar a can. But when I mentioned that I was expecting refund for the three unopened items I returned, the customer service person behind the counter said, "I'm refunding you for all four, including the one you opened. You shouldn't have to pay for food that's bad."

    What I am saying here is, customer service is not just making sure a customer gets what they pay for. It's an ATTITUDE of aiming to satisfy, to go beyond, to make sure the customer is happy.

    And no matter how you look at it, calling a customer a thief doesn't cut it. Because while you are worried about your "extra" $50,000, for all you know that one individual so very worried about tracking just may have a list big enough to generate an extra six figures for you. And worrying about the "extra" $50,000 lost is a scarcity mindset that is perhaps the very reason why you are not reaching the very goals you are seeking. You are focusing on the loss, not on the money.

    Get out of scarcity mode, man!
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    • Profile picture of the author Adeel_Chowdhry
      Originally Posted by ahlexis View Post

      And no matter how you look at it, calling a customer a thief doesn't cut it. Because while you are worried about your "extra" $50,000, for all you know that one individual so very worried about tracking just may have a list big enough to generate an extra six figures for you. And worrying about the "extra" $50,000 lost is a scarcity mindset that is perhaps the very reason why you are not reaching the very goals you are seeking. You are focusing on the loss, not on the money.

      Get out of scarcity mode, man!
      You made some very, very good points.

      Although I don't agree with your 'scarcity' statement... since me and my partner are always trying new things, even if we know it may lose money... I was just thinking of increasing revenue, and closing some blackholes.. - there isn't any scarcity in that.

      Anyhoo, great valid points that i'll take on board.

      Best,
      Adeel
      Signature
      $1,000,000+ in sales already! Promote #1 software online: SqribbleJV.com
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      • Profile picture of the author Robyn8243
        I have purchased through my affiliate link and the reality is in 99.99% (probably 100%) no seller or affiliate has lost a thing. Without that option I would have asked for a review copy if it was something I was considering promoting, or not bought at all if
        it was something I thought was 'worth reading' to maybe pick up a nugget or two at the 'wholesale' price.

        Let's be real ...most of what is available on Clickbank is specifically priced to encourage affiliates to promote. One of the beautiful things about information
        products is that there is no concrete set value, so product creators can put whatever value they want...which in my experience is more often tied to the quality of the
        sales copy than the quality of the actual product.

        I come to this with a long family history in the retail business.

        If I learn about any product I want, and I know where I can get it at wholesale...guess what...I will buy it at wholesale. I don't know why anyone would expect anything different.

        To answer Bobby's question whether if someone came into my shop and offered to pay only 50% of my asking price, would I feel ripped off...

        If someone came into my store and I told them about a brand new product that I was selling at $100, and the customer told me it sounded like a great product, but he was in the business (or his brother, uncle, mother, best friend was in the business) so he could get it for $50 or even $25...

        Would I be mad? Should I feel indignant that this person who learned about this new product from me....would not feel that he now had some moral duty to buy it from me for $100 when he could instead buy it elsewhere for $50 or $25.

        Should I tell my customer that as far as I'm concerned, since I told him about it first, if he uses his connections to buy it cheaper (or with better bonuses) he is a thief.

        If the product was one that (to compare with digital products) cost me practically
        nothing, and I could get an unlimited supply at will, and I was already selling it at wholesale to others, I would offer to sell it at whatever price got me the sale and put money in my pocket that I would not otherwise get. I would be quite happy that I just made 100% profit regardless of the dollar amount. (And if s/he still wanted to buy from his family or friend...I wouldn't cry about that either).

        Unless I have the exclusive rights to something, some will buy from me, some won't, so what. That's business.

        In the 'real' world, there is no such thing as infinite markup.

        If it was a typical retail situation, and I could not match his best 'connected' price, I can
        assure you I would not feel 'ripped off.' I would expect that almost any customer
        who could easily buy at a much better price, would do so.

        To those who think it is wrong to buy from your own link when you learned about a product from another affiliate...I am unaware of any moral code that requires that I buy a product from whoever tells me about it first.

        If one exists, then anyone who writes articles or reviews using product names as keywords, or anyone who offers bonuses is a commission thief....and a high percentage of the make money products promoted on Clickbank and right here in the Warrior Forum should be banned as promoting theft.

        If I learn about some electronics product because I see a television commercial for it, or see it in a Best Buy circular that is sent to my home, (or get an email about it) and then I go to Amazon or Ebay, or my favorite local discounter, or a wholesaler, do you
        really believe I am ripping off all the advertisers who told me first?

        Whenever I promote a make money Clickbank product, I do it well aware that anyone who is not a total newbie is likely to buy it through their affiliate link.

        Many affiliates avoid promoting Clickbank products in the make money niche for this very reason.

        Adeel, you and Bobby are both successful and well versed in all the options available for affiliate promotions. You could easily set up your promotions through PayDotCom (which you have) or your own affiliate program (which you may already have as well).

        I find it difficult to believe that you have not tracked and tested and determined that selling through Clickbank brings you enough of an additional return that it makes it worth choosing to promote there instead of only using other venues where you could easily prevent this.

        Instead of feeling that many of your customers are 'ripping you off,' you should be grateful for all the sales that you would not otherwise have gotten.

        As marketers you should understand the huge financial opportunity you get from offering your product at different price points, which is what happens when you offer
        your product on Clickbank which allows affiliates to buy from their own links.

        My guess is that in a very high percentage of those sales where you believe people are ripping you off, the reality is that those people would not have bought at your 'retail' price.

        One last thing to think about...you can look at things from many perspectives.

        You think people are ripping you off when they buy through their link...

        As a customer....I can look at it that you are ripping me off when you have a product that costs you nothing to duplicate, and you are willing to accept 40% as an acceptable price, yet you expect me to pay 100%.

        Frankly, you and Bobby have just expressed disdain for a large number of people who have made you money whether as a simple customer or as a promoter. It will be interesting to see how this plays out for you.


        Robyn
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  • Profile picture of the author garyv
    Actually that's a pretty lucky scenario. I've actually had affiliates contact me asking for a free product, and then said that if I didn't give it, they'd just buy it and then get a refund from clickbank.

    I always give out free products to those willing to affiliate for me, unless of course they add an "or else" refund demand to it. I can do without those kind of affiliates.
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  • Profile picture of the author garyv
    I'm sure that over 99% of the people that would use their own affiliate ID - are only people that could potentially become an affiliate of yours. Other normal buying people don't know anything about the clickbank affiliate id.

    So you're willing to "tighten up" and save a few dollars at the risk of potentially losing thousands of dollars over the lifetime of an affiliate? That's just backwards thinking in my book. You should make potential affiliates even happier than normal customers. Affiliates are what makes selling on clickbank such a great thing. Happening upon a good affiliate, is like winning the lottery.
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    • Profile picture of the author reapr
      Originally Posted by garyv View Post

      I'm sure that over 99% of the people that would use their own affiliate ID - are only people that could potentially become an affiliate of yours. Other normal buying people don't know anything about the clickbank affiliate id.

      So you're willing to "tighten up" and save a few dollars at the risk of potentially losing thousands of dollars over the lifetime of an affiliate? That's just backwards thinking in my book. You should make potential affiliates even happier than normal customers. Affiliates are what makes selling on clickbank such a great thing. Happening upon a good affiliate, is like winning the lottery.
      Hey garyv is that xbox guide your product if it is its pretty good ... I just wish I knew back when I bought it I could have just asked for an evaluation copy but I was looking into different niches and was in a rush.

      BTW garyv your right many of the products I have bought through CB and continue to use I also promote and continue to make sales on them ... what is even more important to note is I would think this is more notable in the make money online niche!

      To the OP ... as someone who use to sell their own products online and off a refund was never an issue. The customer came first and many who were refunded were either grateful or bought something later or referred someone because they thought your product was good enough for someone else who needed it and knew that the seller/creator stood behind their product.
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  • Profile picture of the author PrettyJenny
    I wouldn't care either, especially if he's going to promote the product for you. I think every seller should treat their affiliates like their own employees, who deserve wages and bonuses.
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    • Profile picture of the author Harvey Segal
      There are two separate issues here

      Is it OK for

      1. A customer to buy through his own affiliate id

      2. An affiliate to buy through his own affiliate id
      (in order to review a product and promote it)


      My own thoughts on these are

      1) Not OK

      2) The vendor should have the choice whether to allow or not

      Harvey


      .
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  • Profile picture of the author Saul'
    LOL - so Adeel and Bobby are #2 top overall gravity product in Clickbank (and #1 in their categories) currently exactly because of the reason they complain here to be a major problem. How much more do you reckon you'd make by not being the overall top #2? Biting the hand that feeds you, eh
    Signature

    Saul

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    • Profile picture of the author ptlhost
      Banned
      [DELETED]
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      • Profile picture of the author Matt James
        Adeel... I think the practice you're referring to is probably the very thing that's pushed the product to No.1 in Clickbank. :rolleyes:

        Think about the list of buyers you're currently building.
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        • Profile picture of the author Paul Davidson
          Wow, what a thread!

          In my opinion, some of the comments in here potentially make the vendors of MAC come over a bit greedy and ungratefull for the success that they are having with this product!

          Now i am sure that both have large email list subscribers (i am on both lists) and have worked very hard to generate such fantastic interest and sales in their new product.

          But by the very nature of the products that they sell and and Internet Marketing Niche that they sell to they should be prepared for this kind of situation.

          Also the fact that so many marketers have purchased the product (even tho purchased through their own aff link) should be taken as a massive opportunity to gain hundreds or thousands of affiliates who could potentially promote their product!

          Possibly the attitude shown in this thread may have put a few people off promoting their products in the future!

          By the way, Adeel and Bobby, well done with such a successfull product launch!

          Regards

          Paul
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  • Profile picture of the author David_Thompson
    Adeel, some of your post on this issues are very questionable, you sound like
    a money hungry..., not everyone is a theft...

    You or anyone on this forum can't tell me they've never bought something thru their own affiliate link?

    Some affiliates do it to test the sales process others do it because they want to check out the product b4 making any commitment to promote it.

    If you don't want people to buy from their affiliate links then use a different service plain and simple, you know cb haven't done anything about this issues for years...

    --David
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  • Profile picture of the author goodmast3r
    No problem for me. Every body wins.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steven Carl Kelly
    I don't promote any of my products on CB, but if I did, I'd have no problem with it whatsoever. In fact, I would encourage my affiliates to all purchase a copy of every one of my products, all through their own affiliate links.

    Taking it one step further, virtually all of my info products have a place to enter a discount code before checking out in order for my customers to save a few dollars on their purchase. If they don't come to the order process with a discount code already, I GIVE THEM ONE right there, on the spot.
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  • Profile picture of the author Paul Hancox
    Hi Adeel

    I can see why you'd be peeved. After all, if YOU'RE doing the promotion, then your reasoning is that YOU should get the 60% (or whatever) commission that is normally paid to affiliates for PROMOTING your product.

    Unfortunately, as others have pointed out... "Whaddya gonna do?" If you use Clickbank, it's one of the things that's inevitably going to happen.

    So I say, if Clickbank hands you lemons, make LEMONADE.

    Email the people that do this, and CONGRATULATE THEM on their 1st affiliate sale for you! And now that they've got started as an affiliate, help them to generate many more sales for you and so receive that cheque from ClickBank!

    Since they're smart enough to figure out your affiliate system enough to take advantage of it themselves, help them become proper affiliates and not only give themselves rebates, but EARN actual commission!
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  • Profile picture of the author CarolinaInvestor
    Originally Posted by Adeel_Chowdhry View Post

    Besides, if they wanted the material purely to check out before promoting as an affiliate/JV.. i'd rather provide free access to view the materials than have them buy through themselves!
    Soooo you would rather give it to them for free instead of getting 40%? Not quite sure I understand that one. I know this has been said, but maybe they were checking to make sure you are not messing with the whole clickbank tracking process. Then they didnt get the commission. Why would they want to promote your product if they think you have a problem with crediting their sales?
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  • Profile picture of the author Marty S
    Originally Posted by Adeel_Chowdhry View Post

    I mean, if you're going to steal from someone, at least be a bit discreet about it! I told him what he's just done is as if you've robbed someone and then called up the victim to let them know who you are!
    One of the most demented things I have read in this forum.
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    • Profile picture of the author hommi_16
      Well, I'll tell you why I was thinking about buying a product through my own affiliate link.

      My first clickbank name was weird (I was a newbie). I managed to make a few sales but then got another account created with a better name and changed all my affiliate links to that. I realized after that their "CDR" policy prevented me from withdrawing the money I've made and all I needed it one more credit card sale (not paypal). I was going to purchase using my own affiliate but just decided to let that money go. Of course now clickbank is charging me a $1 a day cause I haven't made a sale on that account until balance is 0!
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    • Profile picture of the author EdKirby
      I wouldn't have an issue with it. A sale is a sale. Unless of course they are doing it to circumvent another affiliate. That's just not cool.

      Personally, the only time I do it is if I'm going to promote that product. They get the sale and I get the "review" copy that I'm after. Otherwise, I buy from the link that was promoted to me by the other affiliate.

      This way it saves me the time of sending an email and waiting for the response that more often than not is "NO" since there are so many freebie seekers out there that product owners have to protect themselves from these leeches.

      I've given in to freebie seekers who beg and plead and cry poverty yet I've never gotten so much as a "Thank You" from them.
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      Ed

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  • Profile picture of the author TrevorB
    If you are marketing products to the Internet Marketing niche then you have to expect it becaus IMers will have clickbank ids and the ones likely to buy are probably a bit tight for money so any saving helps.

    Outside the IM niche, selling to "ordinary" people I reckon that there are very few sales thay way. So if you don't like it, get out of the IM niche.
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  • Profile picture of the author Igor Kheifets
    I can understand where those people come from, but
    it is unethical to send that kind of email.

    I mean, I'd accept people buying, but when they get
    "in your face" about it, I'd ban..

    Igor
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  • Profile picture of the author Justin1
    Well I am not sure where I stand on this, but I would be more happy about having the number one click bank product and making half a mil and probably wouldnt give a shit about some ppl using their own link.

    But it makes me think, when there is a specific IM product like this, wouldnt there be a large large number of people (webmasters or IMs) that would already be signed up for click bank and would use their own ID? Is there a way to check this on clickbank if it is your product? It makes me think, do these buyers not use their own link because they think it is dishonest/are stupid/arent aware of click bank and signing up? (hell there arent even hoops to jump to get accepted unlike tons of CPA places)

    I would guess it is because a lot of people dont use click bank still.

    Its a big kind of loophole on click bank the way you can do this, many other big companies dont let you sign up and buy something under your link, they even ban you from the program (adult affiliate programs for one and that is multi billion dollar industry)

    How many other big click bankers do we have on the forum? Nearly fell off my chair when I realised the actual creator of the article software was on here posting!

    off to the gym

    Jusitn
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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by Adeel_Chowdhry View Post

    Now we all know that people DO buy through their own Clickbank Affiliate ID's... but do you think it's acceptable?
    I think if someone is going to be selling my product, he has a certain responsibility to get a copy himself, and as my affiliate he deserves a discount. Buying through his own affiliate ID seems like a perfectly rational and reasonable way for him to do that without bothering me for special consideration.
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  • Profile picture of the author Freeman77
    I agree with the other posters -- I wouldn't hold it against someone for buying from their own affiliate link. In fact, since I just signed up for a second e-Junkie account, I emailed and ask if I could do it from my own affiliate link. They said it's not a problem.
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  • Profile picture of the author TrueDepth
    As an the affiliatee I don't care if someone bought through their own link. It depends on if he found my product through an affiliate. If he did then it is not fair to the affiliate. There has to be a better system then clickbank has.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Koltai
    It seems pretty clear cut to me. Clickbank says it's kosher in their TOS, and you agree to that TOS when you list a product with them. If it's a deal breaker for you, then you should probably switch to a different payment processor / affiliate management system.
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  • Profile picture of the author ArticleFreak
    I do not see a problem. You got the same amount of money you would get if they purchased through someone else link. You made a sale, got your money, so I do not see a problem here.
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  • Profile picture of the author steveniam
    If you are selling make money related products, the possibility of people using their affiliate links are very great. However I suppose most vendors have already factored this cost into the pricing or else they would not invite affiliates to promote their products.
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  • Profile picture of the author Zanti
    I'm finding this discussion to be very interesting. I am just now in a position to use my affiliate link to purchase products. What I mean by that is; unlike Steve W. I don't have a reputation as a successful affiliate marketer (yet). I'm just getting started, but I'm honest, sincere and conduct my business with the upmost integrity. But that's not enough or so it seems when you're first starting out.

    I have asked a few producers for review copy of their product. a small number have agreed to do so. The majority have said no or gave no response. In my request for a review copy I was open, honest and up-front about my desire to promote their product and that I was not just looking for free product.

    Of the producers that have sent me review copies I have since established a great relationship with them and working very hard to promote their product.

    Of the other producers who declined, since I am not in the position like Steve to just not promote the product. (One day soon I will be in Steve's position.) There are some products that I know that would go well with my niche. In order to walk in full integrity, I cannot review, promote or article write about a product that I have not personally reviewed or tried first hand.

    I know that there are some who are wiling to do that, but as a Man of Honor I cannot. Maybe this attitude and approach of mine will hurt me in the short term, but I refuse to go against my principles. I cannot conduct myself in my everyday life and turn around and do something different in my IM business just to make a buck. Maybe I'm naive in thinking this way, but for me, either I will make it with integrity or I won't have an IM business.

    While I have not done so yet, my question is: would I be wrong to use my CB link to purchase products that I have a desire to promote and the producer has chosen not to provide a review copy?

    Thanks,

    Z
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    • Profile picture of the author Harvey Segal
      Originally Posted by Zanti View Post

      While I have not done so yet, my question is: would I be wrong to use my CB link to purchase products that I have a desire to promote and the producer has chosen not to provide a review copy?
      Why not first ask him if he has any objection to you
      buying through your own link ?


      Harvey

      .
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Lee
    Wouldn't mind either. Would you rather him not buy and you not getting any sales, or let him buy through his own affiliate link and you end up getting some sale?

    But of course, it must be allowed by Clickbank. If Clickbank states it's not allowed, then no one should buy through their affiliate link.
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  • Profile picture of the author Zanti
    Thanks Harvey for your question. I will be honest with you, I sometimes take it personal when I'm told no to a review copy. I know, I know, don't take it personal.

    Because I know who I am and what I stand for, and when I share this in written form to a producer and they just don't seem to get it. Well, like I said. I working on this and it's not as bad as it may seem.

    Now I will say that my first reaction, if I was told by a producer that they had an objection to my purchasing their product with my CB id, in order to review it for promotion, would be not to work with that person.

    If what I/m seeking to do is to make money for both of us, and they object to me using my id, that would send up a red flag. Either their product is not what they say it is or the only thing they are concerned about is making another dollar in any manner they can. If that's the case, I have learned all I need to know about working with them on an affiliate basis.

    So I guess by asking, instead of assuming, I will learn more about who I am seeking to work with and promote.

    Interesting. Thanks. I have a feeling that may have been what you were getting at.

    Z
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    • Profile picture of the author Harvey Segal
      Originally Posted by Zanti View Post

      So I guess by asking, instead of assuming, I will learn more about who I am seeking to work with and promote.

      Interesting. Thanks. I have a feeling that may have been what you were getting at.
      Absolutely - yes.

      Harvey
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      • Profile picture of the author bgarrity
        It seems to me the main point is that these are Clickbank affiliates NOT your affiliates. You agreed to submit your product into the Clickbank system and have them handle affiliate sales. It is not against their policy for affiliates to use their own link to buy any Clickbank product.

        If you were not aware of this policy then that is your responsibility. If you were aware then why are you surprised that people are doing something perfectly legal in the terms of the affiliate program.

        And I agree the policy sucks - but that is a reason not to use CB not to get mad at people following CB policies. And I also agree that a sale is a sale so see the glass as half full
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  • Profile picture of the author Zanti
    I keep finding out in life and in business that the simple things have the greatest impact.

    The key, at least for me is, am I open enough to receive how and what is given.

    Thanks, Harvey,

    Z
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  • Profile picture of the author Frank Ayres
    I have a product on CB and i personally dont mind people using their own links to buy. To me a sale is a sale however it comes.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ryno1975
    I don't see it as any problem at all. The only other thing I am aware of is that there are a lot of dishonest people out there making purchases from Clickbank, only to get the product they want and then almost immediately getting a refund, and I think that that's thievery. People are missing out when this sort of thing happens. It's just like musical groups/artists having their songs downloaded from Limewire and such - petty thievery.
    So in short, there must be some sort of reinforcement for this sort of thing.
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  • Profile picture of the author tjcal
    You still make money so what's the problem? I'd be jumping for joy even if they bought through their own link.

    And you're not losing money, to lose money means you have to have made it and then lost it.
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  • Profile picture of the author sparrow
    Adeel

    a sale is a sale, if I was going to promote someone's product you don't think I am going to promote it without owning it and putting my recommendation in return.

    So if you want us to promote your products how about giving us a free copy so we can work our butts off for you to make you money, because you don't get anything free in this world if you want people to help you make money help them out and don't get greedy

    Ed
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  • Profile picture of the author Zanti
    Alexa you are very right. When i have requested a review copy I have shared almost all of the information you stated. I have even asked that if they couldn't send a review copy, if they could send me a couple of chapter so I can get a feel for the product. I try and impress upon them that I am not looking for free product but seeking to develop a win-win business relationship.

    I will follow Harvey's suggestion after a no or no response to a request for a review copy, to ask the vendor if it's ok to use my CB id to purchase the product.

    Z
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  • Profile picture of the author Gene Pimentel
    Bottom line is, when you decide to market your product through a system like ClickBank, where you know in advance all the shortcomings, you need to factor it all into the price of your product. Regardless of whether individual buyers are circumventing the price, you must calculate the least your willing to accept before you make the product available through ClickBank. You are trading convenience (not having to handle orders and commissions) for a lower overall profit margin. The only way to be assured of full profit is process the orders and pay commissions yourself.
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  • Profile picture of the author ChrisBa
    Originally Posted by Adeel_Chowdhry View Post

    Now we all know that people DO buy through their own Clickbank Affiliate ID's... but do you think it's acceptable?

    I mean, just a few days back I got a really shocking email...

    This guy emails me and says, "I just purchased your product
    through my affiliate link.. but didn't get credit.. can you make
    sure I do".

    ..WHAT THE...!

    I mean, if you're going to steal from someone, at least be a bit discreet about it! I told him what he's just done is as if you've robbed someone and then called up the victim to let them know who you are!

    He then apologised... but then proceeded to refund his purchase (loser).

    Also, another thing that annoys me is if you are going to buy through your own link... why have a Clickbank ID that is your name? Are these people just generally thick.. or I guess it maybe that they just think it's okay to buy through yourself and receive a 60% discount that you're not entitled to?

    One could argue that..well at least I got 40% of that sale, and it's better than zero..

    ..but what do you think?

    I'll be saving this thread for future reference for myself and others in the future.

    Fire away your thoughts, thanks!

    Cheers,
    Adeel
    IMO there are no problems with this.. he is a customer.. it is a legitimate sale.
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  • Profile picture of the author Eric Anthony
    And of course the person using their own link won't be so keen to ask for a refund.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Maybe I just have too simplistic outlook on life in general but for me, every
      dollar I earn, whether it's the most I could have earned or the least I could
      have earned, is another dollar that helps put food on my families table and
      keeps a roof over our head.

      The rest of this is just nit picky, penny anti nonsense IMO.
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      • Profile picture of the author David_Thompson
        Steven, these youngsters will not get what you are saying here bro, it just landing on deaf ears...

        From his first post to his last his point of view haven't changed...my old gran used to say one pebble at a time will fill your basket...

        --David

        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Maybe I just have too simplistic outlook on life in general but for me, every
        dollar I earn, whether it's the most I could have earned or the least I could
        have earned, is another dollar that helps put food on my families table and
        keeps a roof over our head.

        The rest of this is just nit picky, penny anti nonsense IMO.
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        • Profile picture of the author Adeel_Chowdhry
          Originally Posted by David_Thompson View Post

          Steven, these youngsters will not get what you are saying here bro, it just landing on deaf ears...

          From his first post to his last his point of view haven't changed...my old gran used to say one pebble at a time will fill your basket...

          --David
          Not so David.

          Please read my latest post made this afternoon.

          Learning never stops...

          Best,
          Adeel
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      • Profile picture of the author Adeel_Chowdhry
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Maybe I just have too simplistic outlook on life in general but for me, every
        dollar I earn, whether it's the most I could have earned or the least I could
        have earned, is another dollar that helps put food on my families table and
        keeps a roof over our head.

        The rest of this is just nit picky, penny anti nonsense IMO.
        There's nothing wrong with what you said here Steven, all honest money made is great and a blessing since it puts food on your table and a roof over your head.

        But for me... I want to aim higher (what's wrong with that?)... and to create a 7 figure business you must be agressive in all areas of your marketing. That's the bottom line from the way I see it..

        Best,
        Adeel
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by Adeel_Chowdhry View Post

          There's nothing wrong with what you said here Steven, all honest money made is great and a blessing since it puts food on your table and a roof over your head.

          But for me... I want to aim higher (what's wrong with that?)... and to create a 7 figure business you must be agressive in all areas of your marketing. That's the bottom line from the way I see it..

          Best,
          Adeel

          We're all entitled to our opinion of things and our wants and desires as
          long as we don't break the law or do things that are unethical. So
          technically, there is nothing wrong with what you just said.

          But as a member of this forum said before me, I would think twice about
          wanting to JV with somebody who is so "money" oriented. My experience
          has told me that these people are not ones I want to associate with
          because of things they might do that would reflect negatively on me.

          Case in point, the way you reacted to the customer in your OP. Had this
          been for a product that we had created together, like it or not, my name
          would also now be associated with the sour taste that this person now
          has in his mouth. For me, that's the kind of damage that I won't allow in
          my business. If I'm going to screw something up, at least it better be
          because of something I did and not one of my partners.

          This may seem like a small point to you, but to me, it is the most
          important thing in my business...my reputation.

          As far as purchasing from you, what's next in your list of outbursts to
          customers?

          Will you write me a nasty email because I asked you too many questions
          about a $27 product?

          Will I be constantly hounded with one email after another hard selling me
          on one product after another?

          I'm not saying you would do any of these things, but one bad experience
          is enough for me to wonder what else lies around the corner?

          Fair?

          Maybe not, but we are all judged by our actions like it or not. Sometimes
          it only takes one screwup for people to decide that they want nothing to
          do with you. I am speaking from experience. I've thrown my share of
          stones at glass houses.

          Take this in the spirit in which it is intended, to make you realize that
          our values (love of money or whatever) do reflect on ourselves and do
          leave impressions on others.
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          • Profile picture of the author Adeel_Chowdhry
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            We're all entitled to our opinion of things and our wants and desires as
            long as we don't break the law or do things that are unethical. So
            technically, there is nothing wrong with what you just said.

            But as a member of this forum said before me, I would think twice about
            wanting to JV with somebody who is so "money" oriented. My experience
            has told me that these people are not ones I want to associate with
            because of things they might do that would reflect negatively on me.

            Case in point, the way you reacted to the customer in your OP. Had this
            been for a product that we had created together, like it or not, my name
            would also now be associated with the sour taste that this person now
            has in his mouth. For me, that's the kind of damage that I won't allow in
            my business. If I'm going to screw something up, at least it better be
            because of something I did and not one of my partners.

            This may seem like a small point to you, but to me, it is the most
            important thing in my business...my reputation.

            As far as purchasing from you, what's next in your list of outbursts to
            customers?

            Will you write me a nasty email because I asked you too many questions
            about a $27 product?

            Will I be constantly hounded with one email after another hard selling me
            on one product after another?

            I'm not saying you would do any of these things, but one bad experience
            is enough for me to wonder what else lies around the corner?

            Fair?

            Maybe not, but we are all judged by our actions like it or not. Sometimes
            it only takes one screwup for people to decide that they want nothing to
            do with you. I am speaking from experience. I've thrown my share of
            stones at glass houses.

            Take this in the spirit in which it is intended, to make you realize that
            our values (love of money or whatever) do reflect on ourselves and do
            leave impressions on others.
            Hmmm, yeh, you've made some good points here Steven... certainly something for me to keep in mind.. and i'm not just saying that to sound friendly.

            I still have lots to learn in business and life.

            Everyone's input is appreciated.

            Best,
            Adeel
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        • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
          Originally Posted by Adeel_Chowdhry View Post

          all honest money made is great and a blessing . . . I want to aim higher (what's wrong with that?)
          You want to aim higher than honest money? I think most people would find something very wrong indeed with that.

          Seriously, you've made one very serious flaw in your analysis of the situation.

          You see that a customer bought through his own affiliate link, and you received a lower payment than you would if he had bought directly.

          So you think if he didn't buy through that link, he would have bought directly.

          Bzzt. Wrong.

          You don't know what he would have done if he didn't buy through that link. You can't know. You will never know. It is baseless speculation to suggest that if he didn't buy through that link, he would have bought directly. There is another alternative: not to buy at all.

          There is absolutely no way you can ever know whether he would have bought directly or simply not bought at all. None. Ever. You are completely and utterly clueless about that. All you can do is measure what happens, record what changes, and speculate about why.

          Speculating about that generally requires a solid understanding of incentives, which is why Greg Mankiw's Principles of Microeconomics should be required reading for all business owners. At the very least, memorise the ten critical principles of economics in the first chapter. You may prefer Yoram Bauman's translation, if you've only got five minutes:
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          • Profile picture of the author Adeel_Chowdhry
            Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

            You want to aim higher than honest money? I think most people would find something very wrong indeed with that.

            Seriously, you've made one very serious flaw in your analysis of the situation.

            You see that a customer bought through his own affiliate link, and you received a lower payment than you would if he had bought directly.

            So you think if he didn't buy through that link, he would have bought directly.

            Bzzt. Wrong.

            You don't know what he would have done if he didn't buy through that link. You can't know. You will never know. It is baseless speculation to suggest that if he didn't buy through that link, he would have bought directly. There is another alternative: not to buy at all.

            There is absolutely no way you can ever know whether he would have bought directly or simply not bought at all. None. Ever. You are completely and utterly clueless about that. All you can do is measure what happens, record what changes, and speculate about why.

            Speculating about that generally requires a solid understanding of incentives, which is why Greg Mankiw's Principles of Microeconomics should be required reading for all business owners. At the very least, memorise the ten critical principles of economics in the first chapter. You may prefer Yoram Bauman's translation, if you've only got five minutes: YouTube - Principles of economics, translated
            Very interesting principles..

            He can buy, or not buy.

            ..perhaps with enough positive contributing factors on the scale in our favor, they'll end up buying.

            I'll shall consume the knowledge contained within the video, right after I eat!

            Cheers
            Adeel
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      • Profile picture of the author melanied
        I agree with you 100%.

        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Maybe I just have too simplistic outlook on life in general but for me, every
        dollar I earn, whether it's the most I could have earned or the least I could
        have earned, is another dollar that helps put food on my families table and
        keeps a roof over our head.

        The rest of this is just nit picky, penny anti nonsense IMO.
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  • Profile picture of the author dsmpublishing
    Hi guys

    if im honest its part of the clickbank community everyone does it and at the end of the day its still a sale.

    Come on confess how many of you on here have done this when you have opened a hostgator account i know i have and it was someone else that showed me how to do it.

    kind regards


    sam
    X
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  • Profile picture of the author Scott Ames
    When I was a teen I worked for a grocery store. You know what? The owners didn't ring up their purchases at full retail. They took home samples given by vendors, or just plain took home goods and wrote them off as shrinkage. Dishonest? Perhaps. I leave it to you to decide.

    Auto dealers drive demos way beyond the spirit of a Demo auto. The spouse usually gets one each year to drive as a personal vehicle but it has Dealer plates on it.

    Cell phone dealers get wholesale and free cell phones. Travel agents get discounted and free rooms, cars, airfare, and meals. Waitresses get free or deeply discounted meals.

    When you are an affiliate you get to use your discounts to buy the odd product that you want. Personally I never have asked for a review copy. I prefer to buy my own, with my own discount, to see how I'm treated and to see the process. I don't want any special handling because I might promote it. I don't want it coming in an email, I want to see exactly what the customer sees, up-sells and all. Only then can I determine if I want to promote the product.
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    • Profile picture of the author Robyn8243
      Originally Posted by Scott Ames View Post

      I don't want any special handling because I might promote it. I don't want it coming in an email, I want to see exactly what the customer sees, up-sells and all. Only then can I determine if I want to promote the product.
      You make an excellent point Scott. I recently promoted something where I knew what was being given as free (which I felt had high value) but was not aware of the upsell until I started getting angry letters from subscribers who because of the way it was done, accused me of trying to trick them into a high end continuity program. Lesson learned the hard way.

      Robyn
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    • Profile picture of the author Adeel_Chowdhry
      Originally Posted by Scott Ames View Post

      When I was a teen I worked for a grocery store. You know what? The owners didn't ring up their purchases at full retail. They took home samples given by vendors, or just plain took home goods and wrote them off as shrinkage. Dishonest? Perhaps. I leave it to you to decide.

      Auto dealers drive demos way beyond the spirit of a Demo auto. The spouse usually gets one each year to drive as a personal vehicle but it has Dealer plates on it.

      Cell phone dealers get wholesale and free cell phones. Travel agents get discounted and free rooms, cars, airfare, and meals. Waitresses get free or deeply discounted meals.

      When you are an affiliate you get to use your discounts to buy the odd product that you want. Personally I never have asked for a review copy. I prefer to buy my own, with my own discount, to see how I'm treated and to see the process. I don't want any special handling because I might promote it. I don't want it coming in an email, I want to see exactly what the customer sees, up-sells and all. Only then can I determine if I want to promote the product.
      Yeah, I agree with all that...

      But my post was initially made since I believed a customer purchased for themselves, not because they were getting it to review and then promote.. but purely for personal use, and to grab it at a hefty discount.

      Hope that makes sense?

      - I know we can never know what their agenda was, but for arguments sake let's just create a scenario where someone purchases a product for themselves for their use, at a discount..


      Best,
      Adeel
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  • Profile picture of the author embrown
    I'd have to admit hat before I learned of this mystical "review copy" I bought a few items through my own link. And sometimes I still do, especially if the merchant wants to make you jump through hoops to get one.

    For example, I asked one vendor for a copy for a product that I really wanted to promote (non-IM) and they wanted me to create all the promotional stuff first then link them back. At that point, I just said forget it. I wasn't looking for something for free, I just like to know that the products I promote is some good stuff. That and I'm lazy. I didn't want to do all that work setting up a lenses and blogs for a crappy product that I may not use. Plus I had my heart set on making my first video of me working with the finished product. It was the only product of its kind that I ran across, too. Its no biggie, but I'm just lazy and stubborn.

    Originally Posted by Robyn8243 View Post

    You make an excellent point Scott. I recently promoted something where I knew what was being given as free (which I felt had high value) but was not aware of the upsell until I started getting angry letters from subscribers who because of the way it was done, accused me of trying to trick them into a high end continuity program. Lesson learned the hard way.

    Robyn
    Wow, that's definitely a reason to buy. I didn't even think about those upsells.
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  • Profile picture of the author Adeel_Chowdhry
    Ok wowzers, this thread really turned out to touch many buttons!

    I'm going to level with you guys here, since I'm a Warrior too and started out in this place about two years ago now.

    I didn't post here with an ego or any other motive, and yet simply wanted to find the views and reasonings of other marketers on this matter, so that I may reflect on them... and that maybe I could be incorrect in some of the ways I think.. but that's what I wanted to find out by seeing what the collective thoughts of others were, and then reflect.

    In reference to calling those who purchase through their own affiliate links as 'thieves' when purchasing for their own use... it was wrong and too strong a word, and I think I'll take that back.

    I can admit that I have purchased products in he past through my own link... not to personally use, but only since I was going to promote it... and felt it justified since I was about to bring the vendor a ton of sales and more business. So I find this acceptable... even though I may have said otherwise in some posts yesterday... had a lot of stress and pressure on my plate.

    When a business expands so rapidly, it moves into a different zone, of which you are not used to (I certainly wasn't prepared), and there are a ton of things that need addressing and doing, including trying to change the way you think and run it from your new position.

    Our main business goals is to create a powerful and smooth running marketing engine, whilst providing the best customer support, product and training materials around to our customers.

    A few people called us 'greedy'. I think that was an incorrect statement which was made.

    You see, we are very competitive and want to succeed right to the top, and yes, it does mean we want to make a lot of money in our business, we are not ashamed to say so.

    One way of doing that is to look at different ways of increasing your revenue, such as by improving website conversions, adding backend offers, finding more affiliates and JV partners, and so on.

    One area we wanted to look at was from the initial sale itself... since after statistical analysis we found that many customers were purchasing through themselves...(for reasons unknown). We were also offering a huge array of high ticket bonuses also.

    We have a sales funnel and different things happen at different points and as marketers we feel one should try and get the optimal results at each stage.. right from when they land on the site itself.

    Some also said that 'a sale is a sale'.

    Yes, that is true, and we are not ungrateful. As aforementioned, we were/are simply looking at addressing many areas to bump up sales and conversions.

    ...and sure, each person that does purchase through their affiliate link is adding onto the gravity index, which aids us to get higher up the ladder, which in turn will attract more affiliates and JV..

    We're are aware of a ton of other affiliate platforms also, but Clickbank really does have some great benefits, which is why we used it in the first place... and are happy overall to have done so!

    Thanks for all the great input Warriors, please keep it coming...


    Best regards,
    Adeel
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    • Profile picture of the author ptone
      Originally Posted by Adeel_Chowdhry View Post

      You see, we are very competitive and want to succeed right to the top, and yes, it does mean we want to make a lot of money in our business, we are not ashamed to say so.
      Adeel,

      You are right, wanting to make a lot of money in your business is perfectly fine. But, when "squeezing out the most money you can" becomes your primary goal, then you start to lose sight of the very core of your business.

      Your OP and subsequent replies indicated that this was what happened to you and is why you were called greedy. You even made one comment that the customer doesn't know what's best for him. That one comment alone told me that I didn't want to buy from you. I do know what's best for me and you don't. Arrogance and condescension will do you no good.

      Sure, increasing profits and reducing expenses are a necessity of business - not just a desire. But, you need to look in the proper places and stop worrying about whether one of your customers got a discount from you or not. A real thief would have bought, then refunded the full amount and continued to use your product.

      It sounds like you're coming around and maybe spoke before thinking with a level head. I hope so for your sake because I would hate to see everything you and your partner worked so hard for come tumbling down because of some short-sighted views and interjecting emotion where it didn't belong. Maybe its time you and your partner sat back for a little bit, chilled out, and relished over your successes. Then try your best to remove your emotions away from the profit/loss statement and move forward and take your business to next level...and I'm not talking profit-wise. That will come - I promise.
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      • Profile picture of the author Adeel_Chowdhry
        Originally Posted by ptone View Post

        Adeel,

        You are right, wanting to make a lot of money in your business is perfectly fine. But, when "squeezing out the most money you can" becomes your primary goal, then you start to lose sight of the very core of your business.

        Your OP and subsequent replies indicated that this was what happened to you and is why you were called greedy. You even made one comment that the customer doesn't know what's best for him. That one comment alone told me that I didn't want to buy from you. I do know what's best for me and you don't. Arrogance and condescension will do you no good.

        Sure, increasing profits and reducing expenses are a necessity of business - not just a desire. But, you need to look in the proper places and stop worrying about whether one of your customers got a discount from you or not. A real thief would have bought, then refunded the full amount and continued to use your product.

        It sounds like you're coming around and maybe spoke before thinking with a level head. I hope so for your sake because I would hate to see everything you and your partner worked so hard for come tumbling down because of some short-sighted views and interjecting emotion where it didn't belong. Maybe its time you and your partner sat back for a little bit, chilled out, and relished over your successes. Then try your best to remove your emotions away from the profit/loss statement and move forward and take your business to next level...and I'm not talking profit-wise. That will come - I promise.
        What a great constructive post, I really appreciate it.

        Yes, emotions were involved when I first posted... and we have not had time to sit back yet and relax... it may have caused me say a few things that I may not have otherwise said.

        In reference to this statement made "maybe the customer doesn't know what's best for him".. what was meant by that was simply, if you have a solid solution for their problems and know it will help them but they don't accept it for whatever reason.. or, like parents know what is best for the child, ... that's what I was getting at... rather than trying to sound arrogant or like an idiot.

        Best of success to you all,
        Adeel
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        • Profile picture of the author Tom B
          Banned
          Well, if you are that worried about losing commissions, based on your promotions than don't use Clickbank.

          You can use Clickbank for all your affiliates but promote through your own script. That way you won't have to worry about losing as many commissions.


          Pretty simple but than again you won't be able to inflate your gravity. I always thought gravity was suppose to be affiliate sales not your own. Please don't tell me you are artificially inflating your gravity by promoting as a affiliate to your own product? Now that wouldn't be good, eh?
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          • Profile picture of the author Adeel_Chowdhry
            Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

            Well, if you are that worried about losing commissions, based on your promotions than don't use Clickbank.

            You can use Clickbank for all your affiliates but promote through your own script. That way you won't have to worry about losing as many commissions.


            Pretty simple but than again you won't be able to inflate your gravity. I always thought gravity was suppose to be affiliate sales not your own. Please don't tell me you are artificially inflating your gravity by promoting as a affiliate to your own product? Now that wouldn't be good, eh?
            Hey Thomas,

            Na... Clickbank is sweet... apart from a few issues like buying through your own links and easy refunds!

            Can you tell me what script you are talking about... let affiliates use CB yet use another system??

            - I forgot about that last technique... DOH! ...it's never too late.., may now get up to 700 gravity?


            Adeel
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  • Profile picture of the author ezeey
    I don't see a problem with it, I do it to test products,to see if they work. If you want your links protected just use a link tracker and that will redirect the link. Wordpress has a great plugin for this.
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  • Profile picture of the author Adeel_Chowdhry
    Okay guys... I have some intell that I received from a private program I'm part of, and I'd like to share it with you..

    There are now some private Clickbank affiliate programs which require affiliates to be approved beforehand by Clickbank before they can promote.

    This also means that the general public will NOT be able to purchase through their own affiliate links, thus giving approved affiliates the maximum number of sales possible.

    Best,
    Adeel
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  • Profile picture of the author edhan
    I personally would take this matter in this way. If I am interested to promote someone who is using Clickbank, I will write to the owner for a review price telling that I am interested in selling but need to understand the product. It will just be as good as having to use my own clickbank affiliate to purchase.

    In another way to look at this matter, the person who are going through the trouble of using his/her own clickbank to purchase, they may turn out to be your potential affiliate that will bring in profit. I am looking at the aim of having a product in Clickbank is to allow people to promote and earn some income.

    Of course it will be outright wrong if someone clear the cookie and put his/her own affiliate to purchase. I normally go to clickbank marketplace to search for products I am interested to promote and contact the owner.
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  • Profile picture of the author SusanUSA
    Not a big deal. You win, buyer wins, and perhaps they will start promoting your product.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rully
    For me,it is not a problem,because that a side effect of affiliation system. If you want to get 100% profit, so you have not to use affiliate system
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  • Profile picture of the author Amanda_Moon
    My opinion is, most are trying to learn more about your product. It is still some money in your pocket, even if they are only trying to get a deal.
    I agree that if they are impressed with what you are selling you can get more promotions and business from that person.
    If they don't like it, you have your cut just like if they bought from another affiliate. You really have not lost anything.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dan Grossman
    Not on Clickbank, but I do not allow people to sign up for my affiliate programs and immediately buy through their own links. It's not a discount program, and I state this right in the affiliate program terms that have to be agreed to before signing up.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rob Anderson
    ok guys this is very important. ( to me naturally)
    i am about to put my very first product up at clickbank.
    i see that a huge amount of you have been reading this post.
    so pleas i would like to invite you all to come to clickbank in a week or so and buy my product using your personal link.

    how cool would that be, i would get close to 100 sales. :+)

    thanks.
    rob
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  • Profile picture of the author moonview
    Wow!!! Brand new to all of this. I guess I picked a good thread to read. I found all of this very interesting. After thinking it through, I see no problem with using my own affiliate link to buy something I may end up promoting.
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  • Profile picture of the author webpromotions
    I'm amazed at most of these replies.

    I almost wonder if I'm the only one who read this direct quote from their own TOS:

    "...That is, affiliates should not be using their own HopLinks to purchase products for themselves and then collect a "rebate" check from ClickBank."
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