Does the length of a sales page affect its conversion?

49 replies
Hello warriors,

I'm pretty new to affiliate marketing, and I'm trying to select a product to promote. I decide to try diet & weight loss niche.

Just starting steps but I'm facing a problem. Some of the products on ClickBank looks pretty not bad, but its sales page is freaking long which boring me a little bit....

So my question is: Does the length of a sales page affect its conversion?

For example:
product A: Belinda Benn's Get Lean Program :: Belinda Benn - Your Australian Transformation Coach
product B: Program Yourself Thin

Will B converts better than A?

Thank you in advance
#affect #affiliate #clickbank #conversion #length #page #promoting a product #sales #sales page
  • Profile picture of the author Lucasp
    Originally Posted by connorchen View Post

    Hello warriors,

    I'm pretty new to affiliate marketing, and I'm trying to select a product to promote. I decide to try diet & weight loss niche.

    Just starting steps but I'm facing a problem. Some of the products on ClickBank looks pretty not bad, but its sales page is freaking long which boring me a little bit....

    So my question is: Does the length of a sales page affect its conversion?

    For example:
    product A: Belinda Benn's Get Lean Program :: Belinda Benn - Your Australian Transformation Coach
    product B: Program Yourself Thin

    Will B converts better than A?

    Thank you in advance
    If those are Clickbank products then just check the gravity to decide which one is converting best.

    The length of copy is a red herring. Copy should be as long or short as it needs to be to make the sale. So don't judge a sales page by the number of words.
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    • Profile picture of the author connorchen
      Well, gravity doesn't necessarily mean converting well... I guess...

      I see many people talking about gravity on clickbank in this forum. I think it's just a number...
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      • Profile picture of the author Lucasp
        Originally Posted by connorchen View Post

        Well, gravity doesn't necessarily mean converting well... I guess...
        You guess? Is that how you're approaching this?

        Originally Posted by connorchen View Post

        I see many people talking about gravity on clickbank in this forum. I think it's just a number...
        You think it's just a number? Do you think Clickbank just throws random numbers in there just to look good?

        Seriously man, and I say this for your own good - you really need to educate yourself just a little bit about your chosen business model before you start throwing time and money at 'guesses' and unqualified 'thoughts'.

        Gravity is an indicator of the number of distinct affiliates who have made a sale of that product within the last few weeks. So, yes, gravity is a number but it's also a relevant one. Bigger means better, usually.
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        • Profile picture of the author connorchen
          gravity is higher doesn't mean it sales great :-( that's the truth. It just simply means some (or maybe many) people earned money by selling this product. However, if they want to try this product but couldn't get free sample, the only way they can try the product is to purchase it. In this case, clickbank calculate this in gravity but this doesn't mean it convert well. That's why I said gravity is just a number.

          High gravity number could mean:
          1) it is a great product and sells great, many customers (exclude affiliates)
          2) affiliates purchase this product through their own clickbank hop link because they want to try and assess this product before they start promoting it
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          • Profile picture of the author Lucasp
            Originally Posted by connorchen View Post

            gravity is higher doesn't mean it sales great :-( that's the truth. It just simply means some (or maybe many) people earned money by selling this product. However, if they want to try this product but couldn't get free sample, the only way they can try the product is to purchase it. In this case, clickbank calculate this in gravity but this doesn't mean it convert well. That's why I said gravity is just a number.

            High gravity number could mean:
            1) it is a great product and sells great, many customers (exclude affiliates)
            2) affiliates purchase this product through their own clickbank hop link because they want to try and assess this product before they start promoting it
            Comparing the first two products you listed in your first post,
            1. The Get Lean Program
            vs
            2. Program Yourself Thin

            The Get Lean Program has a gravity of 9.13, and the Program Yourself Thin product has a gravity of 0.88

            The Get Lean program, with a gravity of 9.13, has a fully fledged sales page with long copy and testimonials, among other things, and it all looks professionally created.

            The Program Yourself Thin product, with 0.88 gravity, has no clear sales page and just seems to be a blog.

            So, in this case, regardless of what you say, I think the Get Lean Program will convert better than the Program yourself thin. Although I didn't say gravity was an indicator of how well a product converts, I said it was an indicator of how many sales it has made by distinct affiliates. But looking at the two sales pages together, I think it will convert better too.

            As for the video sales page, I can't find the gravity score on CB for this one, it must have a different name, but plenty of authority figures in marketing - including Clayton Makepeace - have said that VSL convert better than simple copy, so I'd be interested to see the gravity score on that one and it may be the winner of the three - The Get Lean Program does have a decent sales page, but it could be better.

            Price is another issue, though. And I didn't look at that as we weren't discussing that element and I've spent enough time already trying to prove my point.
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            • Profile picture of the author connorchen
              Originally Posted by Lucasp View Post

              The Get Lean program, with a gravity of 9.13, has a fully fledged sales page with long copy and testimonials, among other things, and it all looks professionally created.

              The Program Yourself Thin product, with 0.88 gravity, has no clear sales page and just seems to be a blog.
              So while you are looking for a product to promote, a professional-like sales page will converts better than a blog-like page. Is that right?

              Originally Posted by Lucasp View Post

              As for the video sales page, I can't find the gravity score on CB for this one, it must have a different name, but plenty of authority figures in marketing - including Clayton Makepeace - have said that VSL convert better than simple copy, so I'd be interested to see the gravity score on that one and it may be the winner of the three - The Get Lean Program does have a decent sales page, but it could be better.
              So assume you select to promote a product, and it has two URLs: one is long professional-like sale page, one is VSL. In this case, which one would you prefer?

              Originally Posted by Lucasp View Post

              Price is another issue, though. And I didn't look at that as we weren't discussing that element and I've spent enough time already trying to prove my point.
              So when you do affiliate marketing, what price range do you usually select? Does price affect your decision while selecting product to promote? (i know this question might be stupid. Forgive me I just started this so pretty curious)
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        • Profile picture of the author Rick54
          If you have a high ticket product you are trying to sell then you will need long copy to justify the high price.

          Rick
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          • Profile picture of the author Blaz Banic
            I'd say that the very fact that the long copy seems boring to you makes it obvious that the niche isn't for you. If you're going for weight loss and diet because you think it's the highest converting and the most profitable and not because you're into the subject, then there's a high chance you'll fail.

            Weight loss and diet are among the most competitive niches.

            As for the length of the sales letter... Usually, in my experience, the longer, the better conversion. Especially for unknown authors and products.

            But ClickBank very clearly tells you the conversion in recent weeks through gravity.

            Hope this makes sense.
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          • Profile picture of the author connorchen
            Originally Posted by Rick54 View Post

            If you have a high ticket product you are trying to sell then you will need long copy to justify the high price.

            Rick
            Thank you Rick

            What if you are facing two choice: long sales page and video sales page

            Which one would you consider to promote? or is it depends?
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            • Profile picture of the author SapirVelis
              Originally Posted by connorchen View Post

              Thank you Rick

              What if you are facing two choice: long sales page and video sales page

              Which one would you consider to promote? or is it depends?
              I would choose Video, it's performing great (:
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  • Profile picture of the author RealCasher
    Actually the long well-written and content rich LPs increase sale conversion rates.

    Short pages (Squeeze pages) may work well if you want to build a list.
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    • Profile picture of the author connorchen
      Thanks RealCasher,

      Then what about a page with only a video on it? Like this 5 Tips To Lose Stomach Fat (I know I shouldn't post a URL here, but I just want to ask questions. )

      I guess people won't like a sales page with only video on it, right?
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  • Profile picture of the author kowsur777
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  • Profile picture of the author T S Chan
    Originally Posted by connorchen View Post

    Hello warriors,

    I'm pretty new to affiliate marketing, and I'm trying to select a product to promote. I decide to try diet & weight loss niche.

    Just starting steps but I'm facing a problem. Some of the products on ClickBank looks pretty not bad, but its sales page is freaking long which boring me a little bit....

    So my question is: Does the length of a sales page affect its conversion?

    For example:
    product A: Belinda Benn's Get Lean Program :: Belinda Benn - Your Australian Transformation Coach
    product B: Program Yourself Thin

    Will B converts better than A?

    Thank you in advance
    I think the best person to ask is your prospect.

    If you have a list, divide them into 2 parts.

    Send 1st half of your list to 1st affiliate offer and 2nd half to 2nd affiliate offer.

    Then measure the conversion rate.

    Hope it helps
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    • Profile picture of the author connorchen
      Originally Posted by T S Chan View Post

      I think the best person to ask is your prospect.

      If you have a list, divide them into 2 parts.

      Send 1st half of your list to 1st affiliate offer and 2nd half to 2nd affiliate offer.

      Then measure the conversion rate.

      Hope it helps
      Great idea But i don't have any list right now. I just started. Still learning but I'll definitely try your idea later on.
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  • Profile picture of the author BernardR
    Long sales letters do actually work. But it is always about testing and optimizing your sales pages to find what converts best for you.

    VIDEO SALES LETTERS CONVERT VERY WELL IN MY EXPERIENCE.

    BernardR
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    • Profile picture of the author connorchen
      Originally Posted by BernardR View Post

      Long sales letters do actually work. But it is always about testing and optimizing your sales pages to find what converts best for you.

      VIDEO SALES LETTERS CONVERT VERY WELL IN MY EXPERIENCE.

      BernardR
      Can I ask which niche are you currently in? (Stupid question, just curious to ask)
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  • Profile picture of the author Edwin Torres
    A lot of big copywriters say that a sales page can be as short or as long as you want it to be as long as its not boring and that you get your point across. If you write your copy in your "prospects world" where you talk about their problems, pains, frustrations then you'll never bore them.
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    • Profile picture of the author connorchen
      Originally Posted by Edwin Torres View Post

      A lot of big copywriters say that a sales page can be as short or as long as you want it to be as long as its not boring and that you get your point across. If you write your copy in your "prospects world" where you talk about their problems, pains, frustrations then you'll never bore them.
      I get what you're saying. Thanks Edwin.

      Another question: so when you decide to select a product to do affiliate marketing. Do you select a niche you're interested in and then look for a product in that niche? Or do you select product in other ways? When you select a niche, what reason affects you the most? (profit? interests? or others?)
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  • Profile picture of the author kk075
    Originally Posted by connorchen View Post

    So my question is: Does the length of a sales page affect its conversion?
    It's been proven time and time again that shorter sales pages perform better.

    If you want proof, just visit any Fortune 500 company's website.....do you see a long, drawn-out gimmicky sales page or short, direct copy that informs consumers? Somehow the latter has become the staple of Internet Marketing for these kinds of niches, but it is not the most effective way to go.
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    • Profile picture of the author Lucasp
      Originally Posted by kk075 View Post

      It's been proven time and time again that shorter sales pages perform better.

      If you want proof, just visit any Fortune 500 company's website.....do you see a long, drawn-out gimmicky sales page or short, direct copy that informs consumers? Somehow the latter has become the staple of Internet Marketing for these kinds of niches, but it is not the most effective way to go.
      Go tell that to Gary Halbert, Clayton Makepeace, John Carlton, Dan Kennedy, Joseph Sugarman...
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      • Profile picture of the author Jonathan Henson
        Both short and long sales pages have worked well for me but I believe it all depends on the niche or product; some require and convert better with more information and some don't. You can't put everything into one box and assume one method is better than the other.
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        • Profile picture of the author connorchen
          Originally Posted by Jonathan Henson View Post

          Both short and long sales pages have worked well for me but I believe it all depends on the niche or product; some require and convert better with more information and some don't. You can't put everything into one box and assume one method is better than the other.
          Can I ask which niche converts better with long sales page and which converts better with shorter sales page base on your experiences? (just to learn the reason why it needs longer page to convert)
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      • Profile picture of the author DubDubDubDot
        Originally Posted by Lucasp View Post

        Go tell that to Gary Halbert, Clayton Makepeace, John Carlton, Dan Kennedy, Joseph Sugarman...
        Are we talking about 1980s mail order or websites?
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        • Profile picture of the author Lucasp
          Originally Posted by DubDubDubDot View Post

          Are we talking about 1980s mail order or websites?
          It could be a very long list, but three of those names are still creating long form copy for internet use. And one of them is, apparently, the highest paid in the world. As for the other two, you'll find imitations of their work on plenty of web sales letters to make them more or less still relevant.
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          • Profile picture of the author DubDubDubDot
            Originally Posted by Lucasp View Post

            And one of them is, apparently, the highest paid in the world.
            I'm not sure who in that list you are referring to as the world's highest paid copywriter, but if it's true you shouldn't have a problem providing real world examples of their work. This person should obviously have done work for very big companies involving very popular items. Their work should be all over the place. So who is it and where can I see their work?
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            • Profile picture of the author Lucasp
              Originally Posted by DubDubDubDot View Post

              I'm not sure who in that list you are referring to as the world's highest paid copywriter, but if it's true you shouldn't have a problem providing real world examples of their work. This person should obviously have done work for very big companies involving very popular items. Their work should be all over the place. So who is it and where can I see their work?
              Oh man. You're on an internet marketing forum throwing your opinion around as if it's worth something and you don't know who I'm referring to.

              And what have big companies got to do with anything? Do you know the first thing about copywriting, marketing and sales? Pick up a book one day, if you're lucky you might just realise how ignorant you're being here.

              Have you even heard of Clayton Makepeace?

              And samples? I think you can look that one up - none of those guys need me to promote them to you.

              Just remembered why I don't come in here so often. It's like blind leading blind.
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              • Profile picture of the author DubDubDubDot
                Originally Posted by Lucasp View Post

                Oh man. You're on an internet marketing forum throwing your opinion around as if it's worth something and you don't know who I'm referring to.

                And what have big companies got to do with anything? Do you know the first thing about copywriting, marketing and sales? Pick up a book one day, if you're lucky you might just realise how ignorant you're being here.

                Have you even heard of Clayton Makepeace?

                And samples? I think you can look that one up - none of those guys need me to promote them to you.

                Just remembered why I don't come in here so often. It's like blind leading blind.
                hahahahaha

                Every time I ask for examples of "big time" copywriter's work nobody has anything. Literally, never.

                What do big companies have to do with it? Obviously the highest paid guys in the world have a history of working on the biggest projects in the world. To believe otherwise -- that the reason why you have never seen any of their work is because it must be smaller companies paying them all this money -- is just a little weird. It's like saying the highest paid basketball player in the world isn't in the NBA, nor are there any YouTube videos of him. At some point you've got to question what is myth and reality.
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      • Profile picture of the author StingGB
        Originally Posted by Lucasp View Post

        Go tell that to Gary Halbert, Clayton Makepeace, John Carlton, Dan Kennedy, Joseph Sugarman...
        Exactly. You beat me to it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dayne Dylan
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      Originally Posted by kk075 View Post

      It's been proven time and time again that shorter sales pages perform better
      Says who? Your own objective opinion by looking around at a few Fortune 500 websites?

      C'mon. Stop throwing things like this around when there is no real "proof" to back up what you say.
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      • Profile picture of the author kk075
        Originally Posted by Dayne Dylan View Post

        Says who? Your own objective opinion by looking around at a few Fortune 500 websites?

        C'mon. Stop throwing things like this around when there is no real "proof" to back up what you say.
        Proof? How about every case study published by every reputable marketing firm in the past decade? They all overwhelmingly agree that short is better,

        In fact, the only time long form works on the Internet is when you're selling something that people don't naturally want to buy. Even then though, let's compare your conversion rates and profits between today's Fortune 500 websites and these brilliant marketers that you name...the difference is outright laughable.

        Maybe it's not popular to use a true marketing mindset on WF and to teach people solid principles that work in every industry, but I personally think it's selfish and irresponsible to provide bad information just to toot your own horn.
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        • Profile picture of the author John Krone
          Originally Posted by kk075 View Post

          Proof? How about every case study published by every reputable marketing firm in the past decade? They all overwhelmingly agree that short is better,

          In fact, the only time long form works on the Internet is when you're selling something that people don't naturally want to buy. Even then though, let's compare your conversion rates and profits between today's Fortune 500 websites and these brilliant marketers that you name...the difference is outright laughable.

          Maybe it's not popular to use a true marketing mindset on WF and to teach people solid principles that work in every industry, but I personally think it's selfish and irresponsible to provide bad information just to toot your own horn.
          The first marketing book that my brain soaked up was Claude Hopkins. Scientific Advertising. This a quote from his famous work:
          "Some say "Be very brief. People will read for little." Would you say that to a salesman? With a prospect standing before him, would you confine him to any certain number of words? That would be an
          unthinkable handicap. ... Consider them as prospects standing
          before you, seeking for information. Give them enough to get action.
          "


          Claude also used a story to demonstrate the power of length.
          [I]...His inclination was towards a Rolls-Royce. He also considered a Pierce-Arrow, a Locomobile and others. But these famous cars offered no information. Their advertisements were very
          short. Evidently the makers considered it undignified to argue
          comparative merits.
          The Marmon, on the contrary, told a complete story. He read
          columns and books about it. So he bought a Marmon[
          /I]
          Long or short is not the battle. Uplifting the reader and giving them good information (that they want) is what they'll appreciate.

          A well written piece can't be long enough, because they will always want more. A poorly written piece can't be short enough.

          John Krone
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          • Profile picture of the author kk075
            Originally Posted by John Krone View Post

            The first marketing book that my brain soaked up was Claude Hopkins. Scientific Advertising. This a quote from his famous work:
            Then maybe you better read that famous work before thrilling us with bold text of varying sizes. There is a big difference between the books and columns in your quote and a squeeze page. His advice has ZERO to do with Internet Marketing.

            Then again, quoting a marketing expert who died in 1932, a good 60 years before the first Internet spam was ever seen, is quite the joke anyway. Today's shopper is ten times smarter than they were even five years ago, and long form copy DOES NOT work in any mainstream industry.

            You educate your consumers with lots of text, graphics and videos, but you don't do it all on one page and with a "Buy it Now" button every third paragraph. That's purely an Internet Marketing gimmick for selling guru information in a small handful of industries.
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            • Profile picture of the author John Krone
              Originally Posted by kk075 View Post

              Then maybe you better read that famous work before thrilling us with bold text of varying sizes. There is a big difference between the books and columns in your quote and a squeeze page. His advice has ZERO to do with Internet Marketing.

              Then again, quoting a marketing expert who died in 1932, a good 60 years before the first Internet spam was ever seen, is quite the joke anyway. ..
              KK, There is NO bold text in my post. It is standard 4. The book quotes are smaller, due to their length. And to not get them confused with my own. I use size 4 for good reason. Based on a scientific study of Text Size and how our brain interprets it. The results of which, are very appropriate for this topic and this forum.

              Not only have I read Claude's historical book, twice. I've done in depth research on his principles. Studies that universities have carried out, which proved why Claude's principles worked then and now.

              Though written decades ago, the cognitive processing of words and phrases, hasn't changed in the slightest. Your brain and Claude's, are built the same, and react to words and phrases, in the exact same way. Your brain is analyzing my words now, exactly like Claude's analyzed words in 1932. You get compelled now for the exact same reasons people got compelled in 1932.

              You, like Claude have two brain half's, wired exactly like Claude's and his customers. Words look the same on paper in 1932 as they do on the internet today.

              All that has really changed is the interactive ability and the speed that a message can be delivered.

              Trends change, language evolves, but our neuro-linguistic processing and electro-chemical reactions to what we read, works exactly the same. They are what drives our emotions and rationale to make our buying decisions then and now.

              And there are plenty of current studies that find long form beats short form.

              To be clear, I hate almost every long form copy I read. They mostly feel of pressure and desperation, but that doesn't mean it cannot be done properly.

              You don't throw away a baby, because the bath water is dirty.
              John Krone
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    • Profile picture of the author Chrisrocs
      Originally Posted by kk075 View Post

      It's been proven time and time again that shorter sales pages perform better.

      If you want proof, just visit any Fortune 500 company's website.....do you see a long, drawn-out gimmicky sales page or short, direct copy that informs consumers? Somehow the latter has become the staple of Internet Marketing for these kinds of niches, but it is not the most effective way to go.
      Exactly. It makes sense too, really. You have to remember that normal people are reading these pages - don't bore them to death. Keep it short and sweet in my opinion.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dayne Dylan
    Banned
    The truth of the matter is this...

    Long sales letters work.
    Short sales letters work.
    Video sales letters work.

    It all comes down to testing, your market, the price point, etc. There is no ONE "proven" format that works better than the other.

    PLUS...you have to consider how strong the copy is as well. That's the most essential piece of the puzzle.

    It really is that simple.
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    • Profile picture of the author connorchen
      Originally Posted by Dayne Dylan View Post

      It all comes down to testing, your market, the price point, etc. There is no ONE "proven" format that works better than the other.
      So when you read a new sales page or watch a new video sales page, how could you tell if it is convincing or not? I get that people will buy a product once they are convinced by it, right? But the problem is: how can you tell if it is convincing? Based on your own feeling?

      PLUS...you have to consider how strong the copy is as well. That's the most essential piece of the puzzle.

      It really is that simple.
      Same question: how can you tell if it is strong? Based on your own feeling?
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  • Profile picture of the author dotgirish
    This might help you a bit
    Do You Really Need A Long Sales Page?
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  • Profile picture of the author camohit
    You try to catch a buyer's attention with the tagline but a sales page is where you try to influence the buyer. So it has to have all the details in which the product is useful to the buyer. The length of the page depends upon the creativity of the seller. Sometimes there are some limitations or provisions to the claims made, so a Sales Page should also contain the info about the same to be transparant and making relations with prospective buyers (as business is done with people and seller must satisfy buyers in their every sale). So covering these things may increase the length of the Sales Page. Its in our interest to read everything and have full knowledge about the product we are going to sell as we need to satisfy our customers with every question they have.

    Regarding Videos...some people prefer reading, some watching video or listening audio. It really depends upon people. If you can provide both in the Sales Page that could help increase sales.

    Wish you luck!
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  • Profile picture of the author Jennifer Hutson
    I personally cannot stand long-form copy, but it all comes down to the product and how much explaining it needs.

    Everyone knows what a tire is and why they need it, so you wouldn't write a 3,000 word sales page about why Joe Schmoe should by a set of Goodyears.

    A flying time machine on the other hand...
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  • Profile picture of the author Ayawa
    In my experience, Medium sales letters work better than short or long sales letters..
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  • Profile picture of the author jamescanz
    From experience, variables greatly depend on the hotness and coldness of the traffic, along with the price of the solution.

    Then from there, it's more about what words are on the sales letter (regardless of short or long)...

    But that part is pretty obvious
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    • Profile picture of the author John Krone
      Good question.
      If it is educational and uplifting to the reader then it will benefit you. If it's just bragging on the product it becomes a giant banner that says "I don't give a crap about you, I just want your money".
      If you're making them feel good, delivering beneficial info from the read--then what's not to like?
      They'll love you for it.
      John Krone
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  • Profile picture of the author Randall Magwood
    Originally Posted by connorchen View Post

    Some of the products on ClickBank looks pretty not bad, but its sales page is freaking long which boring me a little bit....
    It bores you because YOU are not looking to lose weight. You're just interested in selling the information on how to do it.

    But if you wanted to buy a new home in a nice luxurious community for you and your family... wouldn't you want to know EVERYTHING as possible about the home/area/location before you dropped $300,000+ on it?

    Same applies here - despite the chasm in price difference. Length of sales page doesn't always beat a short sales letter, but in my experience.... 90% of the time it does.
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  • Profile picture of the author lastbastion
    Of course, because content is one of the basic elements of a sales page. I would keep this page as short as possible.
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  • Profile picture of the author Roderick Gardner
    Look imagine you are the customer and you are looking for a diet weight loss product they crave information .They are looking for a solution to there problem .. remember think as a buyer not a seller
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  • Profile picture of the author Tyler Pratt
    If you can do both text and video that will cover more people.

    Some people like to read and others would rather sit and watch a video.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dilip Mane
    Affiliate marketing platforms usually have an indicator term used to indicate how well the product is converting. For example, ClickBank has gravity.

    It depends upon niche as well. Some niches where human emotions are key to market a product or service then sales pages are little lengthy which is a need of that market.

    Also, if you are a marketer, then you should see the sales page from visitor's mind as well and not only from yours.
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  • Profile picture of the author Van Dam
    If you are able to grab peoples attention the length of your sales letter should not matter. From my own experience a long sales letter is generally a repeat of the first 2 paragraphs. Captivate peoples interest and there is nothing that can stop you from making sales.
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