by seobro
19 replies
I want to turn WSO warrior special offers into a ZUP -Zero Up sell Place, I mean zero. I am tired of getting hit with twenty up sells for a seven dollar course. Like are you sure... are you very very sure you don't want for an extra $29.95 this new course.

[NO THANK YOU- I am willing to pass up this amazing offer.]

Really, this is up sell hell and I am tired of clicking the no thank you button that is often buried deep in body copy. Actually, there are times I cannot find it and give up. The seven dollar course is a ruse. I sincerely believe it is a trick to get us lost in a maze of pages. Sadly, we never get our money back despite the guarantee in big red letters that promises so.

Hey hommies wazzup. Get rid of up sells and and make WSO a ZUP - ZERO UP SELL PLACE!
#hell #upsell
  • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
    Since "unlimited" upsells and downsells are allowed to "maximize" revenue some are going to take advantage of that. I've seen up/down funnels seemingly last forever and it is beyond irritating.

    Here are the forum's instructions on the issue:

    https://payments.warriorforum.com/help/funnel

    Note that someone has to pass all the way through the funnel before they can download anything:

    However, payment must first be made and then someone is placed in the funnel.

    I have not used the WarriorPayments funnel system, so correct me if I am wrong, but it appears:

    1. Buyer pays money for a product.

    2. Instead of receiving the product the buyer is put into a sales funnel.

    3. The sales funnel can be unlimited, ie, it lasts forever.

    4. Only after passing (surviving) through the sales funnel does the buyer get the product they paid for

    No legal commentary about doing this, but can you imagine going to McDonalds, paying money for your order, and then McDonalds refusing to give you your food until you sat through a surprise half-hour long sales presentation and being required to reject new offers over and over and over?

    .
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    Originally Posted by seobro View Post

    Hey hommies wazzup. Get rid of up sells and and make WSO a ZUP - ZERO UP SELL PLACE!
    Have you ever ordered a product from GoDaddy?

    WSO is just pergatory.

    -Ray Edwards
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    • Profile picture of the author xlfutur1
      Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

      Have you ever ordered a product from GoDaddy?

      WSO is just pergatory.

      -Ray Edwards
      You're right, Godaddy is ridiculous. tigerdirect and vistaprint can put you in upsell hell as well.
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  • It's funny when people buy they don't want upsells but when they sell they want upsells. Isn't that kinda weird?
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  • Profile picture of the author graeme_pc
    Originally Posted by seobro View Post

    I want to turn WSO warrior special offers into a ZUP -Zero Up sell Place, I mean zero. I am tired of getting hit with twenty up sells for a seven dollar course. Like are you sure... are you very very sure you don't want for an extra $29.95 this new course.

    [NO THANK YOU- I am willing to pass up this amazing offer.]
    As much as I feel your pain (yea it pees me off too!) we are all in marketing. If this didn't work to maximize profits, marketers wouldn't do it. And yes I think you are basically right, the $7 is there to make you a buyer, after which it is hoped and expected that you buy the next higher priced offering, and since you have your credit card in hand, what better time than the present! It's not really so different to the cheap printer that leaves you buying cartridges that end up many times more expensive than your initial purchase - I'm sure you can think of examples with toothbrushes and razor blades, too. It's life! To make a living we have to SELL something! And it is cheaper to sell more to existing customers than to try and find new ones.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jennifer Hutson
    I know how you feel. Hitting a few "No Thank You" buttons takes sooooo much time and effort. Really exhausting.
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    • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
      Originally Posted by Jennifer Hutson View Post

      I know how you feel. Hitting a few "No Thank You" buttons takes sooooo much time and effort. Really exhausting.
      Yeah, it is time consuming and exhausting when you just want access to your product to go through a dozen upsells and downsells trying to find the small and hidden 'no' button.

      You also apparently have not had to sit through upsell video sales pages which do not trigger accept/reject buttons until the video has played.

      There are a lot of tricks being played not worthy of sloughing this off as just hitting a few buttons and justifying abusive tactics.

      I'm really curious to know, for anyone suggesting these tactics are proper, how long they would pleasantly wait, and how many offers they would sit through at McDonalds to view and then reject all the upsell/downsell offers as a condition to getting the food they already paid for.

      The OP's fraud point also seems to be missed as there is an offer for a product and payment is made. But instead of delivering the product it is a scheme to get someone into a forced sales funnel. That is not what the buyer paid for. The cheap offer is just a trick to start forcing someone to view the "real" products being sold.

      .
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      • Profile picture of the author Jennifer Hutson
        Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

        Yeah, it is time consuming and exhausting when you just want access to your product to go through a dozen upsells and downsells trying to find the small and hidden 'no' button.

        You also apparently have not had to sit through upsell video sales pages which do not trigger accept/reject buttons until the video has played.

        There are a lot of tricks being played not worthy of sloughing this off as just hitting a few buttons and justifying abusive tactics.

        I'm really curious to know, for anyone suggesting these tactics are proper, how long they would pleasantly wait, and how many offers they would sit through at McDonalds to view and then reject all the upsell/downsell offers as a condition to getting the food they already paid for.

        The OP's fraud point also seems to be missed as there is an offer for a product and payment is made. But instead of delivering the product it is a scheme to get someone into a forced sales funnel. That is not what the buyer paid for. The cheap offer is just a trick to start forcing someone to view the "real" products being sold.

        .
        I have never encountered an OTO that I could not skip or just click off the page after buying. And I would never condone those methods, if they were being used.

        But that's not what the OP is complaining about. He never said a thing about fraud - he complained about buttons that were "hard to find." Now that's another issue, entirely.

        But complaining about upsells in general? That's just ridiculous. Most marketers do not use buttons that are hard to find. They are normally right at the bottom. You just click "No thanks." That's it. Is that really so hard?

        Using terms like "scheme" and "trick" to describe a marketing strategy that's been around since the beginning of time is upsetting.

        There are plenty of legitimate marketers who offer OTOs in their funnels that are actually quality products and services. You're making sweeping generalizations about every person with an OTO, which is extremely unfair.

        If you don't understand the importance of an upsell, then maybe you don't understand marketing.

        You get upsold every day of your life without even realizing it.

        When you buy a domain, are you prompted to purchase a 5-year plan instead of a 1-year plan, an email package, or a complete website for more money?

        When you order a pizza online, are you asked if you'd like to include bread sticks or a two liter? How about when you order something off the Dollar Menu and the nice McDonald's lady asks you if you'd like 2 apple pies for a buck more?

        This is no different. People just want something to complain about.

        As someone else said, $7 products don't pay the bills. This is some people's bread and butter – they don't have 9 to 5 jobs.

        You don't have to buy WSOs. Or you can just do what everyone does and take less than a second to click "No thanks," move on, and realize that this is not important enough to get upset over.
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        • Profile picture of the author Cali16
          Originally Posted by Jennifer Hutson View Post

          If you don't understand the importance of an upsell, then maybe you don't understand marketing.
          Jennifer, I'm quite sure Brian Kindsvater understands marketing...probably far better than you and the vast majority of people on this forum.

          Considering the countless - and I do mean countless - times this issue has come up on the forum over the years, it's abundantly clear it's a frustration for a lot of people.

          I purchased a product (not through WF, and not related to IM) about a year ago, and had to sit through at 7 upsells before I finally was able to get to the page where I could download my purchase.

          Do you know how I felt about the product - and the company selling it - by the time I finally got to the product I was initially excited about buying? And this wasn't a $7 product.

          Did all the upsells bother me because, oh, as you suggest, I'm someone who just likes to complain?? Hardly.

          Besides the amount of time it took to get through all of them, they also bothered me because each upsell diminished the value and credibility of what I had just purchased. When you buy a product that claims to do XYZ, and then get hit with a bunch of upsells that don't just hint, but blatantly tell you that you also need these to accomplish XYZ or use it more effectively, then that's a huge problem - and not really good marketing at all. Because you've basically now just said, "Hey, I know we said this about the product you just purchased, but really, we lied. It's inadequate. You need all these other products as well!"

          So, yes, by the time I got to the end of all those upsells I was about ready to ask for a refund - because the seller had pretty much convinced me that what I purchased wasn't going to provide nearly the value it initially claimed. They had now essentially shown me how inadequate it was without all these additional products, most of which were in the $300 to $500 range (I think the initial product was $97 or something like that).

          I didn't hesitate to send them an email and let them know I didn't appreciate all the upsells.

          So, I completely understand what Kindsvater and the OP are saying.

          Don't be so quick to judge people and condescend by accusing them of just wanting to complain.

          I'm not saying having an upsell is bad or wrong. And I DO understand why they are offered. But there's a right way and a wrong way to go about it.

          However, if you want to upsell something to me and succeed? Give me a chance to look over my initial purchase. Then hit me up with an email offering an upsell in a few days or couple of weeks - maybe even a month. If I like the initial product, then I'll be much more likely to purchase something else from you. But if you essentially tell me how inadequate my initial purchase was by immediately telling me I also need all these other products, then you just lost your credibility, diminished the value of the initial product, and lost yourself a customer - probably for life.
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  • Profile picture of the author yakim1
    Actually if you offer more than one upsell and you are using PayPal to process payments, you are violating PayPal's terms of service. The vendor is suppose to give the link to download the purchase the next page after the Thank you page.

    This means that the No Thanks link on the first upsell according to PayPal's Terms of Service must be the download link to the to the customer's purchase.

    By adding a bunch of upsells can get your PayPal account limited.

    Now you can have as many downsells as you want because the customer has not made any purchase yet and PayPal's terms of service do not apply.

    Just remember that it could just be one customer complaint about not getting access to their just purchased product can cause you a world of PayPal Hell.

    I hope this has been helpful,
    Steve Yakim
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  • Profile picture of the author TakenAction
    Quit complaining.

    You want the facts?

    Up-sells, cross-sells, high ticket upsells etc.

    THAT is how you build a real business. No one makes the money on the $7 product, you make the real money from the backend of your funnel.

    You may not like it and others (i'm sure) don't either but the facts are people will still purchase upsells after upsell.

    One of my funnels works this way:

    $7 product> $47 Core product> $97 complimentary upsell> $997 high ticket upsell.

    I know some of my leads hate the upsells and how many I have. You know what I say? Screw off you can get off my list. I can say that because the money I make comes from the hyperactive buyers and not the people that complain about how many upsells I have...

    best of luck to ya and your no upsell funnel.
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  • Profile picture of the author slammer81
    Might have to go shop in a bookstore buddy... And that isn't taking the pi$$... Grab an amazon book on whatever topic you're onto
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  • Profile picture of the author MuhamadEdisonA
    Upsell is product related in the Back end. I found FE product after that Upsell. The upsell always support the product. In my experience, with upsell, we can get many spesial offer bacause we like the first offer...
    And it's good offer...
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  • Profile picture of the author Jennifer Hutson
    The OP and Mr. Kindsvater made two very general statements about upsells. To say that all OTOs are bad or schemes/tricks is an unfair sweeping generalization. That is all I'm saying.

    You said you were upset by 7 OTOs. That on the other hand, is a much more specific scenario. I can totally understand being annoyed by that.

    If the OTOs have nothing to do with the original product and are clearly a bait and switch maneuver, then yes that is absolutely bad practice and should not be condoned.

    However, if someone is selling a few OTOs that are related to their product but are not necessary in order to succeed with the original, then I see nothing wrong with that. I think 3-4 should be the max amount of OTOs. Anything after that is excessive.
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  • Profile picture of the author oda
    Ever been asked

    "Do you want fries with that?"

    You just got Upsold, welcome to marketing.

    I do agree some funnels are NUTS though at least I only get asked about fries and not a rundown on the whole menu.

    Take care

    ODA
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  • Profile picture of the author Brent Stangel
    You don't have to buy WSOs. Or you can just do what everyone does and take less than a second to click "No thanks," move on, and realize that this is not important enough to get upset over.
    Marketers talking about customers' experience always makes me wonder...what are you doing in other people's funnels? Why are you still buying bullshit WSOs? Is it so you can find threads like this to bitch on? Research? I mean seriously.

    If you are in the business of making money then you do what you can to make the most money possible within the framework of your personal ethics. If I run a bunch of people through an A/B and the one with all the up-sells wins the test then that's what I will continue with.

    There's a line that your specific market will bear. I strongly suggest you find it.
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  • Profile picture of the author jfalxr
    Originally Posted by seobro View Post


    Really, this is up sell hell and I am tired of clicking the no thank you button that is often buried deep in body copy. Actually, there are times I cannot find it and give up. The seven dollar course is a ruse. I sincerely believe it is a trick to get us lost in a maze of pages.
    Here's my simple advice:

    Just hit CTRL + F in your keyboard and type: No Thanks..

    Done
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  • I totally see what you mean with that, some people have WAY to many upsells.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jack Gordon
    Originally Posted by seobro View Post

    I want to turn WSO warrior special offers into a ZUP -Zero Up sell Place, I mean zero. I am tired of getting hit with twenty up sells for a seven dollar course. Like are you sure... are you very very sure you don't want for an extra $29.95 this new course.

    [NO THANK YOU- I am willing to pass up this amazing offer.]

    Really, this is up sell hell and I am tired of clicking the no thank you button that is often buried deep in body copy. Actually, there are times I cannot find it and give up. The seven dollar course is a ruse. I sincerely believe it is a trick to get us lost in a maze of pages. Sadly, we never get our money back despite the guarantee in big red letters that promises so.

    Hey hommies wazzup. Get rid of up sells and and make WSO a ZUP - ZERO UP SELL PLACE!
    I think you are buying too many WSO's.
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