Would you consider it theft?

34 replies
I met to 2 guys on this forum as far back as june of this year. I paid them for there service to mentor me. I deployed to Afghanistan this summer where I currently still am. Between the 2 of them I have spent over $3000 dollars. They have done absolutely 0 for me except help me buy hosting and a domain name. Excuses keep coming up. I wanted to make some extra money since we make shit in afghanistan. Ive lost close to 2 months pay. What should I do?
#theft
  • Profile picture of the author slammer81
    That sucks... bad. Out them on here at least so others can avoid.

    How did you get payments to them? Unless you planned to pay 3k for domain and a site - hell yeah it is dishonest.

    What did you agree you would get as part of this arragement?
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    • Profile picture of the author AlohaSoldier89
      One guy we had planned out everything. I paid him a fee for his time. In return while he teaches me he would run my affiliate links on his campaigns with a budget that I sent. Nothing was ever ran. The other guy was similar even gave me a guarantee. We worked together before with nothing to show for it but lost contact after a family emergency of his. Re contacted me and apologized and said he wanted to make it right. Still hasnt done anything for me. Its frustrating. I try to skype them almost everyday and they respond intermittently..
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      • AlohaSoldier89,

        Have you demanded a refund from them for the things and services that you paid for but never received? If you haven't done this, then I suggest you demand a refund from them, and give them 3 to 5 business days to settle the issue with you. If they don't comply, then:

        How did you pay them? Did you pay them via PayPal using your credit card? If so, then I think you can still file a chargeback with your credit card for the PayPal payment (I think this is a possible option even if you sent the payment more than 60 days ago). Here's how: How to Do a Chargeback Over PayPal: 4 Steps (with Pictures)

        however, if you paid them with your PayPal funds (not via your credit card) or via PayPal with funds from your bank, then PayPal payments for intangible items like services can't be refunded by PayPal, and as I can remember, disputes and claims can only be filed within 60 days of sending the PayPal payment ...

        P.S. I think the last thing that you need now is a sales pitch for what's "guaranteed a better coaching service", so watch out ...
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  • Profile picture of the author JenniferGiacoppo
    Sorry to hear that, reporting them is not really going to do anything...even if you post something here. They could be using fake names and probably keep coming up with new accounts and websites to hide from people. Guess they better not catch up with you when you are on duty....(just kidding) anyway don't despair there are good guys out there. I am with a great company and if you spent that much money with them you would be in their affiliate club where they actually do teach you how to do everything. The thing is you don't even have to spend that much in the beginning. I haven't yet , but with these guys your trust comes over time and you get training every week. Also you can ask for help anytime in the club. If you are interested let me know by private message......honestly I think you are wasting your time pursuing them....they'll meet their match one day...it's bound to happen...Jennifer
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  • Profile picture of the author trevord92
    Sorry to hear that - it's not always easy working at a distance and with different time zones but it doesn't excuse a total lack of response.

    Naming and shaming would break the forum rules so that's not an option.

    And it might be too far back to claim a refund - that would depend on how you paid but it's well outside Paypal time limits.

    There's plenty of help available on this forum if you search or let people know here what you were supposed to be getting for your $3k and trust that karma will come round to bite them eventually.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    Sounds like guys who make their living coaching and very well may not even know what to do themselves...outside of find people who are more green than they are to take advantage of.

    That being said. Most coaches can't actually guarantee you will have something to show for your investment. I know that seems crazy, but there are just so many reasons why you may not achieve your desired results....although it sounds like thaey didn't hold up there end of the deal in this situation.

    Anyone wanting up front money to run your ads mixed in with theirs is almost certainly a scammer. A real coach would explain to you how to run ads properly on some site and then let you handle the deal as your own business. When they take upfront money like that, they are almost always using your money to learn with.

    It's Sad, but it's true. Depending on a number of things, you may have some recourse to get refunds.

    At the very least, you need to leave a responsible review of these coaches on whatever sales channel you found them on if possible. Stick to the facts and don't be emotional. But your honest review might at least help keep them from screwing over someone else.
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  • Profile picture of the author AlohaSoldier89
    Its just very frustrating. I actually spent my first 3 months here in combat. Then for them to basically steal from me.....its stupid...
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  • Profile picture of the author Rory Singh
    Sorry to hear about that Soldier.

    A few bad apples can spoil the bunch leaving you with the issue of who to trust. Karma will bite them in the ass really soon. But sad to hear you lost that much especially based on the fact that you literally worked your ass off for it.

    Anyone who tries to make money like they did, won't last very long in any business.

    We keep hearing that ninety something percent fail in business and this is one of the reasons why.

    I hope this doesn't stop you from getting what you came to this industry for. Just be more careful who you deal with but don't let it hold you back.

    What ever we seem to lose in life comes back later. It will.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    If you met them through a paid ad here, you might consider writing a polite (no name calling), fact based (no hype or accusations), review laying out what happened. Post it in the ad thread.

    Mark
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  • Profile picture of the author MarksWineClub
    How'd you pay them? After 3 months, it's time to contact your cc and dispute the charge (some only allow them to refund money for 90 days, so probably do it soon)

    Coaching and SEO should deliver results immediately-at least in terms of effort and communication
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  • Profile picture of the author skyro
    Sorry to hear about this man. I hate to hear stuff like this people taking their hard earn money and getting scammed out of it. The best way to try avoid situations like this is to try find out more about the persons before giving them your money. Make sure that they are legitimate and have legitimate reviews and also check to see if their are any scamm reports about them.
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  • Profile picture of the author AmericanMuscleTA
    Here's my advice...


    Write it off and keep moving forward! It was an expensive learning experience.


    Yeah, it sucks, I've spent money on crap too. Just don't let it hold you down.
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    • Profile picture of the author Oggyoi
      Maybe my advice is different as I'm ex military too.

      Which country are these jokers based ?

      I'm active on several ex mil groups and we have a lot of friends / brothers in arms in a lot of countries.
      I have no issues in turning up on someones doorstep !

      Yes there is a case to forget it, right it off and move on BUT if everyone did that, any scammers do not learn a lesson and will just carry on thieving !
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    • Profile picture of the author Justin Tyme
      Originally Posted by AmericanMuscleTA View Post

      Here's my advice...


      Write it off and keep moving forward! It was an expensive learning experience.


      Yeah, it sucks, I've spent money on crap too. Just don't let it hold you down.
      Dude get's scammed out of 3k and your advice is to write it off. Unbelievable.

      I agree that you should move forward, but not without settling this first.

      I agree that coaching is only effective if you put in the work like they show you, but it sounds like these 2 individuals have never even done their job in coaching you in the first place.

      Ask them for a refund. How did you pay them? Please don't say western union...
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  • Profile picture of the author AlohaSoldier89
    Thanks for the support guys! Refund through paypal and google wallet is out of the window as its way past the time allowed! Im still trying to get my money back though.....As kindly as possible
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    • Profile picture of the author mich800
      Originally Posted by AlohaSoldier89 View Post

      Thanks for the support guys! Refund through paypal and google wallet is out of the window as its way past the time allowed! Im still trying to get my money back though.....As kindly as possible
      Just to be clear. I believe there is a larger window to open a dispute now (180 days with paypal). Not sure when you made the actual payments. If your are beyond that you have several options or combinations of options. 1. Keep pursuing them and try and get your moneys worth of training, 2. Call them out and at least maybe help someone else. 3. Do nothing and hope karma extracts your revenge for you.

      It is a shame that you put yourself in harms way to have our backs and someone betrays your trust just to extract some "easy" cash.
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  • Profile picture of the author salegurus
    If we keep saying just write it off and move on then the scammers win....
    Maybe it's time WF institutes a Shitlist of it's own...
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    • Profile picture of the author Oggyoi
      Originally Posted by salegurus View Post

      If we keep saying just write it off and move on then the scammers win....
      Maybe it's time WF institutes a Shitlist of it's own...
      It will never happen, it would impact on profits

      There's not enough protection for buyers on here, from poor sellers, scam artists etc,
      It's well known that on Blackhat & hack forums members there are posting in WTB sections 'aged ' Warrior profiles.

      I tend now to check sellers posting history, sometimes reveals some interesting patterns.
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  • Profile picture of the author Brent Stangel
    There's not enough protection for buyers on here, from poor sellers, scam artists etc,
    Except for things like:

    #1 COMMON SENSE!

    #2 Signed contracts

    #3 Escrow
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    • Profile picture of the author emmerson
      This situation is disgusting. 3K down the drain just like that? When you are just starting out that would feel like 300K. Warriorforum should introduce some measures to help out buyers on here like an application to sell coaching services or at least a coaching / wso feedback score through votes etc. Something!!
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      • Profile picture of the author Steve B
        I agree that something needs to be done about scam artists, but I can see the dilemma for WF or others that go after the crooks or "keep a list" of those that scam others. It's a losing battle. It takes a huge amount of time and when you're dealing with an international audience, the issues are many across various countries. How is the WF going to go after someone in Africa?

        How do you stop dishonest buyers that don't deserve a refund (they did nothing with the purchase) or that want to get their competitors in hot water (by claiming they were scammed when they really weren't)?

        We all sympathize with those that have been taken advantage of, but the effort and resources that it takes to "watchdog" something like this is, IMO, just to much for the WF to handle.

        Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author salegurus
          Originally Posted by Steve B View Post

          I agree that something needs to be done about scam artists, but I can see the dilemma for WF or others that go after the crooks or "keep a list" of those that scam others. It's a losing battle. It takes a huge amount of time and when you're dealing with an international audience, the issues are many across various countries. How is the WF going to go after someone in Africa?

          How do you stop dishonest buyers that don't deserve a refund (they did nothing with the purchase) or that want to get their competitors in hot water (by claiming they were scammed when they really weren't)?

          We all sympathize with those that have been taken advantage of, but the effort and resources that it takes to "watchdog" something like this is, IMO, just to much for the WF to handle.

          Steve
          I understand and agree with most of what you said Steve...
          Also Rules forbidding public outing are in place for a reason but do yourself a favor and see how they handle disputes here: The Shit List

          If you think it's a bad idea or unfair let me know...
          PS. I know Matt is familiar with that forum...

          OBviously WF can't physically track people down and exact justice but having a process where grievances can be aired really helps with the frustration of being taken for a ride...
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  • Profile picture of the author AlohaSoldier89
    So most of it was through pay pal or google wallet and some bank transfer. Its been a pain being in Afghanistan and trying to talk to these guys. Before they were always up late into the night. Not having a regular 9-5 they did a lot of there work at night. I did look at there posts and comment history. To me it seemed like they knew what they were talking about. Next time writing a contract will help
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  • Profile picture of the author TeKn1qu3z
    It's a big part of Scam and why do these people never learn lessons to make money by genuine method. I suggest you should write a blog post and publish it so others wouldn't get same thing.
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    • Profile picture of the author Carol_A
      AlohaSoldier89,

      I'm very sorry that happened to you.

      I was scammed by my first coach to the tune of $3,400.

      This was money owed me as an affiliate as I promoted his stuff.

      Yep, never did get it back.

      The biggest issue for me wasn't the money, but it was that I promoted a thief!

      My list thought I backed him, so I did my best to take every mention of him off my site and to let anyone who asked know who he was and what he did.

      I almost QUIT over it.

      But I decided to learn, grow and then use my energy to help others and to be the best coach I could be.

      Now I'm doing well, and have a MasterMind Coaching Club where I help others for a nominal fee, and give way beyond what they're paying for.

      Over-delivery is the normal setting for very few coaches.

      Sorry you had such a bad experience.

      Yep, domain name is less than 10 bucks and hosting? Less than $10 per month, so you should have received a fully built site with all the bells and whistles for that amount.

      Wishing you all the best.
      ËśCarol
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  • Profile picture of the author AlohaSoldier89
    They were going to help and teach me affiliate marketing using sources like facebook and such for PPC and similar methods of advertising.
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  • Profile picture of the author AlohaSoldier89
    Almost 2 months of combat pay out of the 11 months ive been here for gone....its so depressing. its like i waisted those 2 months for nothing. Really eating at me
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    • Profile picture of the author Carol_A
      I can relate to what you're feeling, sure can!

      I almost quit when I was scammed but decided to use the energy toward becoming the best coach I could be in order to offer a better choice to folks out there - someone with integrity to choose from.

      Try your best to move on, but I know how much it can hurt.

      I've been there.

      Take Care,
      - Carol :-)
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        They were going to help and teach me affiliate marketing using sources like facebook and such for PPC and similar methods of advertising.
        How is it you bought from them in the first place? A sig link? Did they contact you by PM - did you buy a WSO or join through a classified ad?

        I tried to track it by posts but you have NO posts showing for last summer - so how did these people get their hands in your pocket? I feel bad for you but letting it eat at you won't help - do what you can to get what you paid for or get refunds - and then whatever happens, try to move past it.
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  • Profile picture of the author kenmichaels
    PM me alpha - ill give you my skype.

    I am not a coach/ mentor/ aff guru. But I know how to make things happen.
    ... and I have bookoo over seas people I deal with regularly - so ill be around most times
    you are.

    Ill help you out. ( unless you become a time suck with no forward momentum )

    edit-
    forgot to mention - I wont charge you anything.
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    • Profile picture of the author Sojourn
      Originally Posted by kenmichaels View Post

      PM me alpha -

      Ill help you out.

      - I wont charge you anything.
      I second that and make the same offer if Amazon is of any interest (my specialty). I have a number of guides I'd send you and have successfully coached people in building quality sites.

      Having recently worked like a dog to convince my 17 year old not to enlist (just trust me - it was not for him) I feel I owe someone who did a HUGE debt of gratitude beyond my normal respect for anyone who is willing to protect our country. (Plus, I grew up in Oregon - couldn't help but notice you're in Redmond.) If there's anything I can do, let me know.
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  • Profile picture of the author AlohaSoldier89
    I really appreciate the words! I just wanted to make the most out of my time here. We dont get paid a lot and I wanted to do more. Instead i lost 2 months. They contacted me via PM from a post. I had been talking to these guys for awhile.....
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  • Profile picture of the author troy23
    Sorry to hear that.
    It happens all the time here and I always advise people not to take up coaching.
    Most only make their money offering coaching and have no clue how to make money online. It's easy to spot them now because they have the same circle of people giving testimonials.
    I suggest you name them - that way others can avoid making the same mistake.
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  • Profile picture of the author BrenOHara
    This is appalling to read and I am sorry you've gone through that. I had a similar experience way back in 2005, so I can relate.
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