"Yawn", Why so much boring advice???

by bobsedge 107 replies
Is there any originality out there or is everyone just keeping it under lock and key?

I read post after post from people asking for marketing advice and I see the same worn out, unoriginal suggestions. Boring.

Come on people. Are there any out of the box thinkers out there? Or is everyone really just doing the same thing as everyone else- articles, twitter, facebook, ppc, yada, yada, yada.

How does anyone's business standout out? How many articles on weight loss can possibly work?

Has anyone read Mark Hughes' book "BuzzMarketing" ? You should.

<Removed to keep discussion on topic>

Share your out of the box ideas so we can make our internet businesses fun and stand out.
#main internet marketing discussion forum #advice #bob lovinger #boring #promotional marketing #promotions #sweepstakes #viralsweeps #yawn
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  • Profile picture of the author Gary McCaffrey
    Why not get the ball rolling seeing how you have so much experience in the field?
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    • Profile picture of the author Rezbi
      Originally Posted by Gary McCaffrey View Post

      Why not get the ball rolling seeing how you have so much experience in the field?

      Agreed.

      Let's see some 'out of the box' advice from you seeing as you've been there and done it.

      Constructive criticism is good... just criticism is useless.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sumit Menon
    Dammit! I wasted 30 secs of my life reading this thread.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Taylor
    It's not at all original to start what think
    may be controversial just to get some
    exposure for your signature.

    I'm sure there's no coincidence that the
    word sweepstakes was used in your post.

    John
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    • Profile picture of the author Scott Ames
      Originally Posted by John Taylor View Post

      It's not at all original to start what think
      may be controversial just to get some
      exposure for your signature.

      I'm sure there's no coincidence that the
      word sweepstakes was used in your post.

      John
      HaHa John nailed it.
      Signature

      Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm. -Winston Churchill

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    • Profile picture of the author bobsedge
      Originally Posted by John Taylor View Post

      It's not at all original to start what think
      may be controversial just to get some
      exposure for your signature.

      I'm sure there's no coincidence that the
      word sweepstakes was used in your post.

      John
      The product in my signature has been the same for months and this is maybe the second time I mentioned sweepstakes or promotions in my posts.

      Don't we all speak about the topics we know about and aren't those topics usually the theme of our posts.

      I share plenty ideas. My product is out there but my motive is to open discussions about creative ideas that people have used to market. Controversy is usually the best way to open an interesting discussion.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kelly Verge
      Originally Posted by John Taylor View Post

      It's not at all original to start what think
      may be controversial just to get some
      exposure for your signature.

      I'm sure there's no coincidence that the
      word sweepstakes was used in your post.

      John
      It's also no coincidence that his signature talks about an "internet strategy" that's "fun and exciting."

      Same old tired MO.
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    • Profile picture of the author webpromotions
      Originally Posted by John Taylor View Post

      It's not at all original to start what think
      may be controversial just to get some
      exposure for your signature.

      I'm sure there's no coincidence that the
      word sweepstakes was used in your post.

      John
      This reply is spot on, but its also the answer to the OP's question. (not always of course, but way too often)

      He's very correct in saying that many of the threads here ARE just the same old canned responses, and thats almost always because of the old 'sig link' thing.

      This OP probably posted this thread just for the sig link exposure, but along the same lines, this thread will get umpteen worthless replies for the exact same reason.
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      • Profile picture of the author bobsedge
        Originally Posted by Doug English View Post

        This reply is spot on, but its also the answer to the OP's question. (not always of course, but way too often)

        He's very correct in saying that many of the threads here ARE just the same old canned responses, and thats almost always because of the old 'sig link' thing.

        This OP probably posted this thread just for the sig link exposure, but along the same lines, this thread will get umpteen worthless replies for the exact same reason.
        Doug,

        I addressed this and removed what was perceived as promotion for my signature.

        In the meantime, if you through this thread, you will find that there are actually some good ideas.

        And by the way, just out of curiosity, what is the purpose of signatures in this forum? Is it to provide good will for mankind? No, it is self promotion.

        My motives were to simply provoke a conversation. When I saw that my statements were construed as otherwise, I removed the reference. What else could I have done? I made a mistake and tried to fix it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Andy Crofford
    I like to use contests quite a bit but never really considered it an "out of the box" idea.

    The reason people share the same methods over and over again is because they work. Plus people that ask for advice are typically new to IM and need to start out with the basics.

    I am sure there are people out there with great marketing ideas that are making them a lot of money and are willing to share their techniques.
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  • Profile picture of the author GeorgR.
    most people actually do NOT see that the real success (usually) is in using proven strategies. YES, there are some "out of the box" things also which can make money...but the "basics" are the same.

    Article Marketing, SEO, Traffic, PPC, Web2.0, keyword research etc..etc...those are principles which are known for years. No secrets. You will also notice that the majority of "make money" courses and training are exactly this...just re-iterating those basics and sell them as if it would be newly discovered secrets
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  • Profile picture of the author WritingMadwoman
    Originally Posted by bobsedge View Post

    Here's my input idea. Do some promotional marketing. Give away prizes- money, ipods, vacations, etc. Create a buzz for your marketing message. Is anyone else in your niche doing This?
    Just because you've heard it before doesn't mean it's "boring" to everyone. If we want to get technical, I've heard your suggestion many times before, so it's not exciting to me. LOL

    The whole point of forums like this is to share ideas. If some of them are boring to you or don't interest you for whatever reason, just share ideas that do. If they interest you they'll probably interest some other people too - just maybe not everyone!

    Wendy
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  • Profile picture of the author rapidscc
    This BORING stuff that you talked about is changing the lives of a lot of Internet Marketers And Even Warriors..

    Just search for the threads that says "I've made my first sale" and most of them will tell you that they did it by doing the BORING stuff..

    Ask those people who haven't earned yet if they're doing the BORING stuff and they would tell you they haven't because it's "BORING"..

    I do get your point about the constant repetition of the BORING techniques. But I don't get the point of bashing a method that's a proven money maker for those who start internet marketing..

    There are a lot of people here who can prove to you they've earned from the BORING stuff (myself included) but you're the first one I heard here earning 6 million dollars via sweepstakes..

    If that's the case then I guess you've got no more need to include "Sweepstakes" in your sig?

    Is that a promotion tactic?

    my .02

    oMar/Rapidscc
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  • Profile picture of the author bobsedge
    I don't think I criticized anyone at all.

    I thought I did share an idea but I never said I had all the ideas. I actually want to hear some out of the box methods of marketing.

    My point is that if everyone does the exact same thing in every niche- how does that differentiate one business from the next. The basic principles obviously work, but at some point certain people are going to rise to the top of their niche and its very difficult to move them.

    We all need new ideas. I know I would certainly like to hear some.
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    • Profile picture of the author WritingMadwoman
      Originally Posted by bobsedge View Post

      My point is that if everyone does the exact same thing in every niche- how does that differentiate one business from the next. The basic principles obviously work, but at some point certain people are going to rise to the top of their niche and its very difficult to move them.

      We all need new ideas. I know I would certainly like to hear some.
      Okay, now this is a good point, and in my own experience it doesn't matter if you're using the same marketing tactics as everyone else . . . just that you put your own unique spin on them. Either your product or articles or other methods have to stand out from the crowd. It's not that the methods themselves are boring, just the way people are using them.

      But yeah, there are other more "fun" ways to market too, which I've seen plenty of examples here in people's sig lines.

      I think there are ways to personalize just about any marketing method and tailor it to fit your personality and your product(s). I've got nothing against new and exiting methods either, but why ditch the routine ones if they're working? We can have the best of both worlds!

      Wendy
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      • Profile picture of the author bobsedge
        Originally Posted by WritingMadwoman View Post

        Okay, now this is a good point, and in my own experience it doesn't matter if you're using the same marketing tactics as everyone else . . . just that you put your own unique spin on them. Either your product or articles or other methods have to stand out from the crowd. It's not that the methods themselves are boring, just the way people are using them.

        But yeah, there are other more "fun" ways to market too, which I've seen plenty of examples here in people's sig lines.

        I think there are ways to personalize just about any marketing method and tailor it to fit your personality and your product(s). I've got nothing against new and exiting methods either, but why ditch the routine ones if they're working? We can have the best of both worlds!

        Wendy
        Wendy,

        I think you hit the nail on the head and actually articulated it much better than I did.

        I was trying to use a bit of controversy to get the ball rolling. I was actually motivated by the book I mentioned earlier "BuzzMarketing". It really should be read.

        The need to be different and stick out is getting more important every day. I really sense an overall feeling of frustration of the forum. Sure, some people are making money but there are a lot more (at least that's the way it seems to me) that aren't. And people are jumping from one new hyped product to the next trying to chase the difference maker when much of it is just re-hashed old stuff in a new box.

        Not everyone on the internet is on the WF (it just seems that way). Let's come up with ideas that really give us the competitive advantage.

        In "BuzzMarketing", Mark Hughes suggests that creating a buzz is the way to go and his Six Buttons of Buzz are:

        The taboo (sex, lies, bathroom humor)
        The unusual
        The outrageous
        The hilarious
        The remarkable
        The secrets

        Anyone agree, disagree? Has anyone used these methods with success?
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        • Profile picture of the author WritingMadwoman
          Originally Posted by bobsedge View Post

          In "BuzzMarketing", Mark Hughes suggests that creating a buzz is the way to go and his Six Buttons of Buzz are:

          The taboo (sex, lies, bathroom humor)
          The unusual
          The outrageous
          The hilarious
          The remarkable
          The secrets

          Anyone agree, disagree? Has anyone used these methods with success?
          I've never used these specifically, but I've seen others use them. Some it works for, and some miss the mark completely. It depends on the niche I guess.

          One of my main niches is self help, and my "twist" I guess could be called "The compassion". I've had more than one person tell me that my articles (and products, websites, etc.) OOZE compassion and encouragement. One woman said she feels like she's being hugged when she reads my work. LOL It sounds funny, but it totally works for me in this niche.

          And that's not manufactured, by the way, I really DO care. I guess that comes through and it's part of what makes my work stand out from the other million self-helpers online.

          So yes, I get what you're saying, the same thing can be done with humor, rudeness (think RichJerk) and the like.

          Wendy
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          • Profile picture of the author bobsedge
            Originally Posted by WritingMadwoman View Post

            I've never used these specifically, but I've seen others use them. Some it works for, and some miss the mark completely. It depends on the niche I guess.

            One of my main niches is self help, and my "twist" I guess could be called "The compassion". I've had more than one person tell me that my articles (and products, websites, etc.) OOZE compassion and encouragement. One woman said she feels like she's being hugged when she reads my work. LOL It sounds funny, but it totally works for me in this niche.

            And that's not manufactured, by the way, I really DO care. I guess that comes through and it's part of what makes my work stand out from the other million self-helpers online.

            So yes, I get what you're saying, the same thing can be done with humor, rudeness (think RichJerk) and the like.

            Wendy
            So Wendy, I'm sure you write great copy, but what do you do to get it in front of your target audience? Do you use any techniques that are "out-of-the-box"?
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            • Profile picture of the author WritingMadwoman
              Originally Posted by bobsedge View Post

              So Wendy, I'm sure you write great copy, but what do you do to get it in front of your target audience? Do you use any techniques that are "out-of-the-box"?
              LOL nope, not a one. I just do what I know works, which is writing articles, blogging, bookmarking, Squidoo, etc. That's not to say I'd be against trying something new, I just haven't felt the motivation to do it yet!

              Wendy
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  • Profile picture of the author LB
    Most people have such a poor grasp of the basics, or at least failure to implement them, that exotic solutions are too far beyond what they need.
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    • Profile picture of the author bobsedge
      Originally Posted by LB View Post

      Most people have such a poor grasp of the basics, or at least failure to implement them, that exotic solutions are too far beyond what they need.
      LB,

      I think you're right but is some of the problem that they are frustrated because trying to implement the basics is crowded and noisy. Perhaps the best place to start is to do something a little different,

      I'm a big football fan and its interesting to watch some running backs take the ball and attempt to run right into the pile while others dart around the pile. I think we spend a great deal of time running into the pile.
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  • Profile picture of the author Joseph Then
    Originally Posted by bobsedge View Post

    I read post after post from people asking for marketing advice and I see the same worn out, unoriginal suggestions. Boring.
    Because 'boring' advice works.
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  • Profile picture of the author Will Edwards
    Originally Posted by bobsedge View Post

    I
    Here's my input idea. Do some promotional marketing. Give away prizes- money, ipods, vacations, etc. Create a buzz for your marketing message. Is anyone else in your niche doing This?
    .
    You call that out-of-the-box thinking? (lol)
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    • Profile picture of the author ptone
      Originally Posted by bobsedge View Post

      Well, your ridicule of my idea is certainly not "out of the box" nor is it productive.
      You are the one that started down this road. Your OP insinuates that there are no good ideas to find here at the Warrior Forum and that you can find no out-of-the-box thinkers. You called us all boring. Then, the only example of out-of-the-box thinking you could give just so happened to be directly related to a product in your sig.

      Now, maybe you didn't mean to come across that way...we've all written things that read differently than we were thinking.

      I think you should re-read your OP with an objective viewpoint and maybe you will see why you are getting replies such as this.

      Actually, this topic has the potential to be quite interesting and even "not so boring." But, your OP reads like an attack and a promo for your sig which is distracting from a potentially good thread.
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      • Profile picture of the author bobsedge
        Originally Posted by ptone View Post

        You are the one that started down this road. Your OP insinuates that there are no good ideas to find here at the Warrior Forum and that you can find no out-of-the-box thinkers. You called us all boring. Then, the only example of out-of-the-box thinking you could give just so happened to be directly related to a product in your sig.

        Now, maybe you didn't mean to come across that way...we've all written things that read differently than we were thinking.

        I think you should re-read your OP with an objective viewpoint and maybe you will see why you are getting replies such as this.

        Actually, this topic has the potential to be quite interesting and even "not so boring." But, your OP reads like an attack and a promo for your sig which is distracting from a potentially good thread.
        Perhaps you are right, but my intent was to be provocative, not insulting. You can't really believe that my intent was to call out every member of the forum.

        So, I really am sorry if I insulted anyone because that is not what I wanted to do. I really want to hear ideas.
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        • Profile picture of the author ptone
          Originally Posted by bobsedge View Post

          You can't really believe that my intent was to call out every member of the forum.
          Based on your other replies, I don't believe that was your intent. I just wanted to point this out to you because I've been in your shoes where I wrote something, got blasted for it, re-read my post and realized that what I wrote could be interpreted differently than I meant. Innocent mistake, but it happens.

          The ideal action would have been to remove your sig before making this post. That would have at least removed suspicion of this simply being a self-promotional post.

          I think this thread can be a fun thread, I hope we can move beyond this mishap.
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        • Profile picture of the author jakesellers
          Exciting, out of the box tends to work once if that if you're lucky. Being in the paving stone business is a little more sustainable than being in the pet rock business.

          Raging against boring advice when proffering boring advice (giving away ipods? a sweepstakes?) looks bad.

          Originally Posted by bobsedge View Post

          Perhaps you are right, but my intent was to be provocative, not insulting. You can't really believe that my intent was to call out every member of the forum.

          So, I really am sorry if I insulted anyone because that is not what I wanted to do. I really want to hear ideas.
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      • Profile picture of the author JustaWizard
        Out of the box, in the box, new, old - who cares as long as it works?

        It's not fresh ideas that make the difference, it's an unwavering follow-through on proven strategies that matters.

        And unwavering follow-through brings up a 4 letter word... WORK!

        Going for the grand-slam with some out of the box idea MIGHT work here and there, but what ALWAYS works is a proven strategy + unwavering follow-through.

        You don't earn a black belt in Karate overnight with some out of the box thinking or strategies; you have to have to go to classes and do the work. You don't grow a garden by tossing out seeds then expect to eat the next day.

        An example of an old but works-like-gangbusters-marketing-strategy, I'm a giant proponent of promoting offline with seminars and speaking gigs, and my students (who are actually out there speaking) are doing great (one has 22 seats booked for her seminar this coming Saturday, her average sale is a $3,800 package, she usually closes ~15% of the room... you do the math). Are seminars new, flashy, out of the box?

        HECK NO!

        I think John nailed it too, but that's my 2 cents for those out there who might hope that new and flashy will save them from doing what REALLY needs to be done.

        Hope that helps!
        David
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        • Profile picture of the author bobsedge
          Originally Posted by JustaWizard View Post

          Out of the box, in the box, new, old - who cares as long as it works?

          It's not fresh ideas that make the difference, it's an unwavering follow-through on proven strategies that matters.

          And unwavering follow-through brings up a 4 letter word... WORK!
          David,

          Of course you're right. But all things being equal, why do some people realize wild success while others don't? There are differences.

          Anyone who has been to New York City knows that street performers are a dime a dozen. There are literally hundreds. But perhaps you have heard of the "Naked Cowboy". He is not the best performer out there, but he sings and plays the guitar wearing a cowboy had and underwear. People go out of their way to go see him. He has been on talk shows. He does the same thing as everyone else, but he thought out of the box. So sure, the other street performers may be making a good living ( I couldn't tell you), but I bet none are doing as well as the Naked Cowboy.
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          • Profile picture of the author JustaWizard
            @ Jared Alberghini

            Jared, you always have very cool ideas and I like your idea - and my question is this:

            So, say I go ahead and use Artisteer to create and distribute a bunch of cool themes with my backlink in the footer... isn't it just an easy-as-pie 2 seconds for people to take out the backlink when they use my theme, therefore rendering my efforts null and void?

            Thanks!
            David
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            • Profile picture of the author Tony_Brayley
              Hi David,

              After reading down this thread, I just had to throw in my 2 cents. I recently set up a couple of wordpress blogs and used free themes. With the first blog I needed some tech help. So I e-mailed the theme-creator and she gave me free help (quickly), said no problem etc. etc. I felt so good, I'll be sending a paypal donation to her. She bred some really good karma. NOW, I wouldn't dream of removing anyone's links from a free theme.

              I've been on hundreds of different blogs and I have to say that 90% of the time I see the link at the bottom of the page (yes, I always look right to the end of the page). I think people are born "good" and it's what we are submersed in (in life) that changes us.

              I believe most people want to give back, if they can.

              Tony.
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  • Profile picture of the author SantiSantana
    BuzzMarketing is not a new concept either (I believe Purple Cow, written by seth godin is older and so is all the guerrilla marketing stuff by Trout and Ries). It has simply been "rehashed" as some would say. I think the point that comes floating out is that you can use "traditional" methods and simply give them your own flavour, wether it be renaming the concepts to make them easier or more exciting to explain, adding a twist of your own trial and error learned stuff or simply listening to what other people have to say. God gave us two ears and only one mouth as my granny says.

    In my personal case I can tell you that I was a believer in IM. Not a marketer, a believer. I believed it could be done even without having ever seen a penny. Imagine when i received my first Clickbank check ( a grand total of 151.08 dollar, yet probably the most important payment I will ever receive in my life, you all know why).

    I am now working on my second payment check ( I spent triple the amount I earned to ge tthe first one so there is a lot of tweaking to do) adn I can tell you that at times I don't know where to start, just form the traditional stuff and what i have learnt along the way.

    Now if you want my .02 on personal tricks I am now investigating what is commonly known as arbitrage, but applied to things it has not been applied previously. The idea came from seeing one of those ads about the "NEW THING" CPA arbitrage, which the ad touted as Adsense arbitrage all over again. That obviously kept me thinking, what else can be arbitrage brought into?

    So if you want new stuff, as I said before, look at all your "old" stuff and see if there is a place or situation in which it has not been used or tested yet and see if you can make it work. I believe the name of the concept is INNOVATION.
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    • Profile picture of the author bobsedge
      Originally Posted by SantiSantana View Post

      BuzzMarketing is not a new concept either (I believe Purple Cow, written by seth godin is older and so is all the guerrilla marketing stuff by Trout and Ries).
      I don't think its important whether or not something is a new concept, it's the approach within the concept. Of course buzz marketing has been done, but there are infinite methods of using buzz marketing. The idea of creating conversation is old but the ways of doing it can be new. That is true with all the methods we know about. They can be used in a fresh way.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jagged
    One should "master the box" before venturing outside of it....thus the repetition in questions & answers...

    It's said that people take as much as 7x or more to see an offer before they act on it...
    Maybe it's the same on advice here...
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  • Profile picture of the author SantiSantana
    Exactly my point. I think you just answered your own question. he only thing left to see after that is rewording the question into:

    In which ways have you guys taken the run-of-the-mill techniques and given them your own unique twist? could you please provide any examples at all?

    Which will probably elicit a better response, simply because everyone seems so burnt out of the controversial approach. If you dont believe me, go to the forums in homeworking, where you ar enot even allowed to post an URL, even if it's google.com because it is seen as spamming, self promotion, etc, etc,etc.

    I hope my limited input is of any help to others.
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  • Profile picture of the author Corwinnx
    Originally Posted by bobsedge View Post

    Is there any originality out there or is everyone just keeping it under lock and key?

    I read post after post from people asking for marketing advice and I see the same worn out, unoriginal suggestions. Boring.

    Come on people. Are there any out of the box thinkers out there? Or is everyone really just doing the same thing as everyone else- articles, twitter, facebook, ppc, yada, yada, yada.

    How does anyone's business standout out? How many articles on weight loss can possibly work?

    Has anyone read Mark Hughes' book "BuzzMarketing" ? You should.

    Here's my input idea. Do some promotional marketing. Give away prizes- money, ipods, vacations, etc. Create a buzz for your marketing message. Is anyone else in your niche doing This?

    I grew a business from $0 to $6 million a year in three years primarily through running a sweepstakes.

    Share your out of the box ideas so we can make our internet businesses fun and stand out.

    I believe the answers you seek lie within the WSO section. That's where people are 'selling' the 'out of the box, creative strategies.'

    In the main discussion, we tend to give the 'basics' because without them, no strategy will sustain longevity.


    Marcus
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      I'll take boring advice that makes me an additional 10K a month anytime.

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      • Profile picture of the author bobsedge
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        I'll take boring advice that makes me an additional 10K a month anytime.

        Steven, as will I. But maybe, just maybe, there are ways of taking those true and tried methods and putting a little twist on them to make 20K a month. Just wondering.
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  • Profile picture of the author summerm
    Hey thanks for the thread. I liked how you put it; it was refreshing and entertaining. "Yawn", hehe. I hope some originality comes out of this thread.


    Originally Posted by bobsedge View Post

    Is there any originality out there or is everyone just keeping it under lock and key?

    I read post after post from people asking for marketing advice and I see the same worn out, unoriginal suggestions. Boring.

    Come on people. Are there any out of the box thinkers out there? Or is everyone really just doing the same thing as everyone else- articles, twitter, facebook, ppc, yada, yada, yada.

    How does anyone's business standout out? How many articles on weight loss can possibly work?

    Has anyone read Mark Hughes' book "BuzzMarketing" ? You should.

    Here's my input idea. Do some promotional marketing. Give away prizes- money, ipods, vacations, etc. Create a buzz for your marketing message. Is anyone else in your niche doing This?

    I grew a business from $0 to $6 million a year in three years primarily through running a sweepstakes.

    Share your out of the box ideas so we can make our internet businesses fun and stand out.
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  • Profile picture of the author cypherslock
    Simple: You have to have the basic before you do anything else. You truly have to understand what it is you want to accomplish. Once you've set up that site, written that article, done a PPC campaign, you can see the results, see where your strength is, and outsource the rest. But a good understanding is paramount.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jared Alberghini
    Since nobody is playing nice, I thought I would join the game and share a "Not So Boring" marketing strategy:

    Let the hackers/warez pirates promote your product(s) for you to create insane viral buzz.

    Having read many, many threads where people are complaining that their product is being given away, shared on warez sites, torrent sites, etc, basically being shared virally...I thought I would share this special trick.

    Is your product being distributed illegally? THAT'S GREAT!
    Here's what you should do... exploit this free viral traffic.

    Illegal Warez Download Web Sites are the ultimate social networking sharing sites that have been around since the beginning of the internet, so why mess with success? With these techniques you can harness the heart of the internet... stealing good shit!

    But why you ask should I let all of the BlueFartters steal my good shit? Well, it's painfully plain and simple, EXPOSURE!

    You know how quickly viral videos get around the world and are shared automatically throughout the web community without the author doing any marketing whatsoever? Well, hacked software is shared just as much, if not much more than viral videos.

    If you are selling a digital product on the Internet, THE SECRET IS : Release your previous version(s) to the hacker / warez community and let them promote your product for you, to the entire world, very quickly, thus opening the door to upsell everyone that has an illegal copy of your previous version product, to upgrade to your current version.

    Submit your old versions to warez sites... people will try out your old version and if they like, will pay to register your newest version with all the latest 'security' bugs fixed! Not to mention they will be scared to use your hacked product on a public website registered in their name... can you say lawsuit?

    If your product is worth sharing, and people risk doing something illegally to share your product, that should give you a hint that you have a solid product that many people want to get their hands on, by paying for it, or stealing it.

    Another trick is to put a high ticket price point on your product, like $997, then somehow, (I'll leave that up to you to be creative) leak your $997 product on the torrent sites... people love to steal/share valuable products.

    I'm sure you have experience submitting your url to search engines, or submitting your product details to script directories, so it's just the same submitting your (old) product (with your company details and url) to warez sites. Just to a search for warez and look for "Submit Warez" and enter the details and download link to your old version and presto... you are on the fast track to viral success! Simply repeat the process with every warez site you can find that allows you to submit your software, rinse and repeat!
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  • Profile picture of the author Jared Alberghini
    Here's another not so boring viral marketing/traffic tip:

    Step #1.) Create a slick looking WordPress theme (or take your pick on your favorite CMS, blog, forum, osCommerce, etc... any app that has a theme based system), add your backlink to the footer, and distribute.

    That's it... no step 2 or nothin...

    If you don't have the graphic design/html/php skills to do this, well, simply outsource it.

    I still have decent traffic from many PHP-Nuke themes, Post-Nuke themes, and Xoops themes I created back in the day... STILL getting decent traffic from them, 3-4 years later.

    Please, someone kick me in the arse so I get to work creating new themes for WP, and all the other apps out there... I keep kicking my own self in the arse for not creating more themes for all the different apps out there...

    It's truly a viral-traffic gold-mine.

    - Jared

    Edit:

    Here is a list of sites where you can submit your WordPress themes:

    Wpdesigner
    Wordpress Theme Viewer
    Weblogs Tools Collection
    Wordpress Theme Codex
    JohnTp Wordpress Blog
    Blogflux
    ThemesBase
    BloggingThemes
    Wpskins
    Wordpress Theme Forum
    Fresheezy
    EmilyRobbins Blog
    WpSnap
    WpThemesFree
    Blogging Themes
    Wordpress Wow
    Wordpress Theme Base
    Free Wordpress Themes
    iThemes
    Rock-Kitty Themes
    Web2Feel
    Themes-wp
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    • Profile picture of the author Lance K
      Originally Posted by Jared Alberghini View Post

      Please, someone kick me in the arse so I get to work creating new themes for WP, and all the other apps out there...
      @ Jared - KICK
      Signature
      "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
      ~ Zig Ziglar
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  • Profile picture of the author Jared Alberghini
    @ David,

    Yea, people can remove the link fairly easily, but in my experiences, the majority of them simply don't. That's work ya know... opening up a file, editing, saving... lol... not to mention the fact that many many people don't even know how to remove the link

    If you are worried about them removing your link, you can always encrypt your footer code. (can't think of the exact software I have used, but there are plenty out there).

    .jrd
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    • Profile picture of the author JustaWizard
      @ Jared

      Well, when it comes to the theme (pardon the pun) of this thread, your idea really fits the bill!

      Seems like an untapped goldmine of backlinks, if people like your theme and use it....

      Makes me wonder if that's the reason why people develop free themes to give away...

      In your experience, once you publish your theme are you done, or is there support w-o-r-k you *have to* offer as a theme developer?

      Again, your ideas are always so cool (seriously, no brown-nosing here ) THANKS!
      David
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  • Profile picture of the author Jared Alberghini
    @ David

    I don't create & give away free themes (or free anything) for no reason... I love backlinks, PR and traffic!

    As for support, in my experiences many people have emailed me asking for little tweaks/adjustments... like:

    "Hi, I'm using your free theme and I really like it, but I was wondering how much you would charge to change the blue to red, and adding my logo to the header?"

    Simple things like this, and they are more than willing to pay for your time. They already have a bond with you, since you gave them something free that they like, this stimulates the "reciprocation" emotion. If someone gives you something free, it's just human nature to feel obligated to give something back.

    .jrd
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    • Profile picture of the author JustaWizard
      @ Jared

      Dude (hey, I grew up on the beaches of So Cal, so it's allowed) you simply ROCK!

      Thanks!
      David
      PS: I just grabbed your RSS feed from your blog, I'll be watching hehehe!
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  • Profile picture of the author Matt Bard
    1.Pay a stripper to put a tattoo of your url on one breast and your company slogan on the other.

    2.Write a jingle for your company and have the ice cream truck play your "song".

    3.Hire kids to graffiti your message.

    4.Hire a homeless person to wave your sign on the corner. Sign says you helped them make money.

    5.Change your name to your url.

    6.Name your dog your company and every night wander the streets calling for him.

    7.Start your own church and preach your marketing message.

    8.Bribe a local politician to create a special day in honor of your business.

    9.Take over a small nation and change it's name to your company name.

    10.Get caught stealing your own book from Barnes and Noble.
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    • Profile picture of the author bobsedge
      Originally Posted by Matthew Maiden View Post

      1.Pay a stripper to put a tattoo of your url on one breast and your company slogan on the other.

      2.Write a jingle for your company and have the ice cream truck play your "song".

      3.Hire kids to graffiti your message.

      4.Hire a homeless person to wave your sign on the corner. Sign says you helped them make money.

      5.Change your name to your url.

      6.Name your dog your company and every night wander the streets calling for him.

      7.Start your own church and preach your marketing message.

      8.Bribe a local politician to create a special day in honor of your business.

      9.Take over a small nation and change it's name to your company name.

      10.Get caught stealing your own book from Barnes and Noble.
      Matthew,

      These are obviously tongue in cheek, but some of these are not actually half bad. They are certainly out of the box and would garner attention.
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      • Profile picture of the author JustaWizard
        Isn't the NYC naked cowboy renting space on his underwear??
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        • Profile picture of the author bobsedge
          Originally Posted by JustaWizard View Post

          Isn't the NYC naked cowboy renting space on his underwear??
          You know, I think he is. He also just announced that he's running for Mayor or Governor. Now, that's out of the box.
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        • Profile picture of the author JustaWizard
          @ Matthew Maiden

          You are freakin' funny! dunno if you're an internet marketer, but you should consider a comedy career!
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          • Profile picture of the author Matt Bard
            Originally Posted by JustaWizard View Post

            You are freakin' funny! dunno if you're an internet marketer, but you should consider a comedy career!
            Thank you

            Yes I'm an Internet Marketer. Have been since 1994/95. Full time.

            Matt
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            • Profile picture of the author JustaWizard
              Originally Posted by Matthew Maiden View Post

              Yes I'm an Internet Marketer. Have been since 1994/95.Matt
              Off topic story, you gotta LOVE this:

              A dear friend, very entrepreneurial, used to go to all variety of get-rich-quick seminars... he never did any of those things, he was just curious what's out there, liked to see what ideas people had.

              One day he comes back from yet-another-seminar (this had to like 1992? 3?... for sure in the very infancy of the www...) and he says to me "David, have you heard of the intenet?--well, this seminar guy says people are going to be flocking to buy stuff online! This is a HUGE opportunity to get in on the ground floor of this thing, it's going to be THE next huge thing!"

              Me, in my infinite ability to *know everything* looked him in the eye and with dead certainty said "John, NO ONE is going to be buying stuff through a computer, NO ONE..."

              Hahahaha!
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              • Profile picture of the author Matt Bard
                Originally Posted by JustaWizard View Post

                NO ONE is going to be buying stuff through a computer, NO ONE...
                I knew a lot of people online back then with the same attitude.
                My intro to making money online was by "accident".

                My brother and I would come online on the weekends to "chat" (first social media sites) because we lived apart and chatting was cheaper than long distance calling.

                More of our relatives and friends started coming online to chat and everyone started wondering about other chat sites that might be better.

                So I found a free site and put up a page of links to the other chat sites for our group to look at and wouldn't you know that it was getting hundreds of hits a day.

                I was number 1 on Webcrawler, Excite, Lycos, and others. (This was pre Google) One of my friends told me about getting paid for "clickthroughs" if I put a banner on my chat page so I did.

                After making around $300-$800 a month from a single page on a free hosted site I was hooked. Never looked back.

                Meanwhile, as I was trying to tell my family and friends to get in on this "Internet thing" they kept telling me it wouldn't last.

                Maybe products change and search engines change but there is always going to be millions of people coming online looking for answers.

                If you can give them what they are looking for, your in business

                Matt

                Sorry Bob. Didn't mean to hijack your thread.
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                • Profile picture of the author bobsedge
                  Originally Posted by Matthew Maiden View Post

                  I knew a lot of people online back then with the same attitude.
                  My intro to making money online was by "accident".

                  My brother and I would come online on the weekends to "chat" (first social media sites) because we lived apart and chatting was cheaper than long distance calling.

                  More of our relatives and friends started coming online to chat and everyone started wondering about other chat sites that might be better.

                  So I found a free site and put up a page of links to the other chat sites for our group to look at and wouldn't you know that it was getting hundreds of hits a day.

                  I was number 1 on Webcrawler, Excite, Lycos, and others. (This was pre-Google) One of my friends told me about getting paid for "clickthroughs" if I put a banner on my chat page so I did.

                  After making around $300-$800 a month from a single page on a free hosted site I was hooked. Never looked back.

                  Meanwhile, as I was trying to tell my family and friends to get in on this "Internet thing" they kept telling me it wouldn't last.

                  Maybe products change and search engines change but there is always going to be millions of people coming online looking for answers.

                  If you can give them what they are looking for, your in business

                  Matt

                  Sorry Bob. Didn't mean to hijack your thread.
                  Matt,

                  That's ok because its actually on point.

                  I had a very similar story. I was generating a ton of leads (500 a day) online using a particular technique (which I can't mention because I'll be accused of self promotion). I was slaying the existing search engines and affiliate programs in the pre Google day.

                  But here is what happened. One day, someone moved the cheese and didn't tell me. By the time I realized it, I was part of a crowded field and my leads were reduced and the ones I got sucked.

                  It took me about 6 months to get back on track and by that time, my acquisition cost had increased 5X.

                  The moral of the story is that I think we always have to try new things and live out of the box because something that is working today may be gone tomorrow.

                  Bob
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        • Profile picture of the author John Durham
          Personally, I shared an out of the box idea a month ago in a thread and thousands of people flocked to it over night. It was shut down and deleted along with the 20-30 something "thanks" I received overnight for sharing such advice.

          Wont do it again. Looking back, I'm kinda glad they shut it down honestly.

          I do agree though that, much like the guitar has seven basic chords, there are basic principles to marketing online that are worth repeating and being redundant over. Once you learn to play the basic chords you can then elaborate and embellish, but you need to repeat those basic chords over and over to become a "player".

          It's like Mr. Myagi says "Wax on, Wax off"!
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        • Profile picture of the author John Durham
          Originally Posted by bobsedge View Post

          I suppose, but this forum seems to be very open.

          This is a great place to hang out if you work online and desire the company of others who do the same. It's also a great place to contribute and offer helpful advice...BUT IT"S THE DUMBEST THING ON EARTH TO SHARE YOUR MOST TREASURED SECRETS HERE!!!


          These guys are the most brilliant IM'rs on earth, and can launch a full blown program in 24 hours, based on anything you say, and "out market you" with your own original secrets!!!

          Let's be real.

          Like this guy above me here watch out for him, he's a smart one! lol
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        • Profile picture of the author discrat
          Yeah I will do the BORING stuff with IM. And then I will have FUN running my wheelbarrow full of money to the bank !!
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    • Profile picture of the author Collette
      Originally Posted by Matthew Maiden View Post

      ...
      6.Name your dog your company and every night wander the streets calling for him...
      Done.

      (Actually, I named my company after my dog - but let's not split hairs!)
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      • Profile picture of the author Collette
        Meanwhile, back in JaredLand...

        He walks the talk.

        Internet Marketing Stud Muffin Award.
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        • Profile picture of the author bobsedge
          Originally Posted by Collette View Post

          Meanwhile, back in JaredLand...

          He walks the talk.

          Internet Marketing Stud Muffin Award.
          I've actually read Jared's posts five times and he is brilliant. There's a whole business in those posts alone. They made this thread worth it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Troy_Phillips
      Originally Posted by Matthew Maiden View Post

      1.Pay a stripper to put a tattoo of your url on one breast and your company slogan on the other.

      2.Write a jingle for your company and have the ice cream truck play your "song".

      3.Hire kids to graffiti your message.

      4.Hire a homeless person to wave your sign on the corner. Sign says you helped them make money.

      5.Change your name to your url.

      6.Name your dog your company and every night wander the streets calling for him.

      7.Start your own church and preach your marketing message.

      8.Bribe a local politician to create a special day in honor of your business.

      9.Take over a small nation and change it's name to your company name.

      10.Get caught stealing your own book from Barnes and Noble.
      Now how did we know this was coming ? :-)

      Actually got me to thinking about a combination of 1 and 4 .... if I can just find that homeless stripper
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  • Profile picture of the author bobsedge
    Actually, the main theme behind the book that inspired this post is that the website/company half.com got a town to change their name to Half.com and that catapulted the company from zero to 1 million registered users in, I believe, one year.
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  • Profile picture of the author bobsedge
    Originally Posted by Mr Money Maker View Post

    Darn didn't know I was so boring..........now I'm depressed......LOL
    That's ok, I didn't know that I was boring either. Oh well, I guess I get what I reap.
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  • Profile picture of the author Treece
    Lock and key, of course. If I had anything that new and exciting I certainly wouldn't repeat it so that everyone else can repeat it!
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  • Profile picture of the author dillingham78
    Well one that I have noticed is that soooooo many people do not take the time to be unique and stand out from everyone else. It is very easy to do, but the problem with people is that we are all naturally lazy (or at least a lot of us Americans lol) We don't like to do a lot of work, so when somebody has great advice and tell us to "do it like this", everyone does the same thing without trying to unique. Its not hard to do, just take some extra to think about how you stand out/be unique. in other words, just be you!
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  • Profile picture of the author Kim Standerline
    Have you thought that folks may be giving the same advice because it actually works for them. (Now there's a radical thought for ya)

    Kim

    Originally Posted by bobsedge View Post

    Is there any originality out there or is everyone just keeping it under lock and key?

    I read post after post from people asking for marketing advice and I see the same worn out, unoriginal suggestions. Boring.

    Come on people. Are there any out of the box thinkers out there? Or is everyone really just doing the same thing as everyone else- articles, twitter, facebook, ppc, yada, yada, yada.

    How does anyone's business standout out? How many articles on weight loss can possibly work?

    Has anyone read Mark Hughes' book "BuzzMarketing" ? You should.

    <Removed to keep discussion on topic>

    Share your out of the box ideas so we can make our internet businesses fun and stand out.
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  • Profile picture of the author bobsedge
    Ok again, if you read the thread you will see that this has been covered, but the purpose of the post was to provoke some ideas and there have been some very good ones. I am not critical of internet marketing or the people in this forum.

    Granted, obviously there is a reason for doing the things people do, but even within that, it would be helpful to have ideas that made us stick out.

    Why is Perez Hilton off the charts when another blogger that is just as busy only a small fraction of the traffic. There are things that can be done to make a difference.

    And I'm not the expert in originality so I would offer my list if I had one and will produce if ideas come up. But others have stepped up and produced some intriguing ideas.
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  • Profile picture of the author bobsedge
    I mentioned the Naked Cowboy in an earlier post.

    We can all take a lesson from him as a marketer. The TV news programs are all featuring him because he announced that he is running for mayor.

    This guy figured out how to stand out in a crowd and all he had to do was perform wearing only underwear and a cowboy hat.
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    • Profile picture of the author JustaWizard
      Originally Posted by bobsedge View Post

      I mentioned the Naked Cowboy in an earlier post.
      And you mentioned perez hilton and one other person in the ENTERTAINMENT industry (can't recall who at this exact moment... a bigger name... ) and in THAT industry, getting noticed is mandatory.

      I grew up here in L.A., and had several bands contending for contracts back in the day, so I know what you're talking about - look at KISS, love 'em or hate 'em they were pretty far outside the box. They got noticed, that's for sure.

      So here's the thing, all your examples are entertainment industry-based, where standing out from the crowd is practically mandatory, or you're moving back to the farm or family business or waiting tables 'cause you're not makin' it in THIS town...

      Sure, we can extrapolate conceptually from entertainment industry examples and "sticking out, being outside the box" and all that, but don't you think using entertainment industry examples are more metaphorical than literal?

      I do.

      I mean, sure, if you appear in the media and create a bunch of controversy, act like a nut, or use outlandish methods to gain attention and traffic, maybe your site will get a zillion visitors a day, I get it... but again, I don't think entertainment industry examples are anything more than a metaphor, don't you?

      David
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      • Profile picture of the author bobsedge
        Originally Posted by JustaWizard View Post

        And you mentioned perez hilton and one other person in the ENTERTAINMENT industry (can't recall who at this exact moment... a bigger name... ) and in THAT industry, getting noticed is mandatory.

        I grew up here in L.A., and had several bands contending for contracts back in the day, so I know what you're talking about - look at KISS, love 'em or hate 'em they were pretty far outside the box. They got noticed, that's for sure.

        So here's the thing, all your examples are entertainment industry-based, where standing out from the crowd is practically mandatory, or you're moving back to the farm or family business or waiting tables 'cause you're not makin' it in THIS town...

        Sure, we can extrapolate conceptually from entertainment industry examples and "sticking out, being outside the box" and all that, but don't you think using entertainment industry examples are more metaphorical than literal?

        I do.

        I mean, sure, if you appear in the media and create a bunch of controversy, act like a nut, or use outlandish methods to gain attention and traffic, maybe your site will get a zillion visitors a day, I get it... but again, I don't think entertainment industry examples are anything more than a metaphor, don't you?

        David
        I don't think entertainment examples are a metaphor. But I do think that sticking out is essential for success. It can be sticking out within a particular niche. But its hard to be successful and a secret.

        The Naked Cowboy and Hilton Perez and Paris Hilton for that matter made themselves celebrities. As did Mike Filsaime, Frank Kern, etc. within the IM niche. How? Or Tony Robins in the self improvement niche. Or Suzie Orman in the financial advice niche? The celebrity part kind of falls in place.

        I'm sure there are celebrities within the "dog" niche. I wouldn't know because I'm not there.

        The point is to aspire toward the top of whatever niche you are in.

        I think to do that you need to be different. If writing articles is your strategy, the articles must grab the attention of your audience in some way. And if you are selling a product, you need to find a better mousetrap to convert better than the next guy. There are few niches that are wide open or few that will remain that way for long.

        I use entertainment because its a universal language. If I found researched and discovered who the king of the dog niche is, some people would know what I'm talking about, but I think most wouldn't. Entertainment is a niche, but regardless of the niche, the goals are probably the same.
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        • Profile picture of the author JustaWizard
          Oh. I thought you were asking for online/internet marketing traffic generation techniques that are outside the box.

          Well, this isn't outside the box, but just come up with an outlandish / controversial / nutty angle on what you do, and start sending out press releases to the media.

          Tony Robbins simply went on Canadian TV with Bandler and Grinder's NLP fast phobia cure technique and made an outrageous claim - "I can cure ANY phobia - spiders, snakes, elevators, heights - in minutes"

          He was later quoted as saying, luckily it worked every time the cameras were rolling!

          If you really want to stand out, get the attention of the media.

          I thought you were asking about out of the box ideas to stand out in a niche online... aside from killer SEO techinques that are all over this forum and other places, I'm stumped!

          Thanks for putting up with me, I've probably way-past spent my 2 cents on this thread, eh?

          Best,
          David
          PS: I think Jared is winning so far... ! I think YOU should out-do him with something....
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  • Profile picture of the author Matt Bard
    I have to agree with David (Justawizard #71 )on this one.

    Entertainment is not a typical business and what is tolerated in that industry does not carry over to most other niches.

    When you mention Frank Kern you should realize that the IM niche is close to the entertainment biz in that most people buy a product based on the person or "celeberty".

    The way people line up to get on Frank's waiting list for upcoming product launches is very similar to upcoming movies.

    Selling traditional products require that you present yourself in a business like manner or you are viewed as suspect and lacking the credentials for the business.

    If Madonna gets arrested outside of a nightclub she can sell more albums but I won't sell more shoes if I get busted.

    The way to make yourself stand out is with a USP (Unique Selling Proposition / Point ) not negative publicity.

    Burger King might let you "have it your way" which lets them compete with McDonalds but if any of their CEOs got busted for something it would not translate to more sales.

    Matt
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    • Profile picture of the author bobsedge
      Originally Posted by Matthew Maiden View Post

      I have to agree with David (Justawizard) on this one.

      Entertainment is not a typical business and what is tolerated in that industry does not carry over to most other niches.

      When you mention Frank Kern you should realize that the IM niche is close to the entertainment biz in that most people buy a product based on the person or "celeberty".

      The way people line up to get on Frank's waiting list for upcoming product launches is very similar to upcoming movies.

      Selling traditional products require that you present yourself in a business like manner or you are viewed as suspect and lacking the credentials for the business.

      If Madonna gets arrested outside of a nightclub she can sell more albums but I won't sell more shoes if I get busted.

      The way to make yourself stand out is with a USP (Unique Selling Proposition / Point ) not negative publicity.

      Burger King might let you "have it your way" which lets them compete with McDonalds but if any of their CEOs got busted for something it would not translate to more sales.

      Matt
      Matt,

      With all due respect, I think your looking at this with very narrow lenses. Perhaps the entertainment examples are a distraction, but the end result for success in any niche has to be differentiation.

      I don't know the history of Burger King but somewhere along the line they must have done things out of the box. They somehow convinced the mass public that they were better than the next guy. I loved Jack in the Box growing up and in my recollection, they were about the same size. Why is Jack in the Box all but extinct now.

      We think Frank Kern is a celebrity because we follow this industry and he is well known. Many many years ago my wife was a Tuppleware dealer and there were "Frank Kerns'" among these distributors of plastic containers. All the dealers knew who they were and when they walked into a room they were swamped with followers.

      I'm not saying you can't make a living without becoming a star (it doesn't have to be you personally, it could be a product or brand) in your niche, but to truly have long reaching success, you do.

      Bob
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      • Profile picture of the author Matt Bard
        Originally Posted by bobsedge View Post

        Many many years ago my wife was a Tuppleware dealer and there were "Frank Kerns'" among these distributors of plastic containers. All the dealers knew who they were and when they walked into a room they were swamped with followers.
        True. Good point, however, how many Tupperware dealers would have the same things go on in their seminars that Frank has?

        Well, I've never been to one so those folks could be totally wild for all I know

        You have to admit though that you are talking about a small number of people compared to the entertainment industry where just about anyone can get arrested and make more money.

        I understand what you're saying about getting attention but you do have to be careful that it is the right kind of attention.

        Yeah you can be goofy like Mark Cuban (Dallas Mavs owner) and the Dairy Queen incident but if you pulled out an adult industry toy and started joking about the things that Frank did then you can expect to lose some people.

        But for the most part, yes you need to find a way to get more positive publicity.

        Look at that young guy who sells those shoes. He gives away a pair of shoes for every pair sold. If you buy a pair of his shoes he will give a pair to a child in need.

        Maybe he didn't plan on his approach as a gimmick but he is getting attention for it.

        Matt
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        • Profile picture of the author bobsedge
          Originally Posted by Matthew Maiden View Post

          True. Good point, however, how many Tupperware dealers would have the same things go on in their seminars that Frank has?

          Matt,

          You would be shocked. And that is true for most of the major MLM's and franchises as well.

          Bob
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        • Profile picture of the author ExRat
          Hi Bob,

          You hit the nail when you said -

          They somehow convinced the mass public that they were better than the next guy
          You seem to be crossing over from 'out the box/not boring' stuff into other areas where people have found success.

          The NYC underpant man - if he kept his clothes on, but played his music in such a remarkable way that he 'convinced the public he was better than the next guy' that would be a totally different route to success than standing out by using outrageous ideas (like busking in your grundies.)

          Not always, but many times, people take this route because that is their talent (doing outrageous stuff - well), and they are lacking in talent in the areas that involve 'doing it better than the rest'.

          Doing it outrageously, and doing it 'better', can be the same thing, but most often are two very different things.

          Not everyone is cut out to be the next rich jerk - we have seen the proof of this a million times. How many people can be as outrageous as Mofo Moffatt AND pull it off with aplomb, as if they are like that all of the time? Because that's what it takes to do it well.

          If you had a group of IM students, (say 100) and you could either teach them to be a success by only using out the box ideas that court attention, or by only becoming really good at inside the box things - how many would you apply to each path, if they were chosen (as a group) in order to be representative of the public at large and your goal was for as many of them as possible to succeed?

          If you send more down the 'get good at inside the box' stuff route, then this explains -

          Is there any originality out there or is everyone just keeping it under lock and key?

          I read post after post from people asking for marketing advice and I see the same worn out, unoriginal suggestions. Boring.
          Incidentally, if I was to advise anyone, it would be to succeed by being really good at stuff, but to always try to do it in a different manner to the norm. So I'm saying I would advise using the 'both' method - done really well, but done differently, but not necessarily outrageously different. I'm not suggesting 'out the box' stuff is bad, but agreeing with others about why it's not the 'norm' when dishing out advice.
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          • Profile picture of the author bobsedge
            Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

            Hi Bob,

            You hit the nail when you said -

            You seem to be crossing over from 'out the box/not boring' stuff into other areas where people have found success.

            The NYC underpant man - if he kept his clothes on, but played his music in such a remarkable way that he 'convinced the public he was better than the next guy' that would be a totally different route to success than standing out by using outrageous ideas (like busking in your grundies.)

            Not always, but many times, people take this route because that is their talent (doing outrageous stuff - well), and they are lacking in talent in the areas that involve 'doing it better than the rest'.

            Doing it outrageously, and doing it 'better', can be the same thing, but most often are two very different things.

            Not everyone is cut out to be the next rich jerk - we have seen the proof of this a million times. How many people can be as outrageous as Mofo Moffatt AND pull it off with aplomb, as if they are like that all of the time? Because that's what it takes to do it well.

            If you had a group of IM students, (say 100) and you could either teach them to be a success by only using out the box ideas that court attention, or by only becoming really good at inside the box things - how many would you apply to each path, if they chosen in order to be were representative of the public at large and your goal was for as many of them as possible to succeed?

            If you send more down the 'get good at inside the box' stuff route, then this explains -



            Incidentally, if I was to advise anyone, it would be to succeed by being really good at stuff, but to always try to do it in a different manner to the norm. So I'm saying I would advise using the 'both' method - done really well, but done differently, but not necessarily outrageously different.
            I'm not sure it's different. Out of the box doesn't have to be outrageous.

            Is Zappos really the best shoe store or have they just changed perception.

            I'm not sure what the tipping point is. Sometimes it's the outrageous or sometimes its something else.

            How do you explain Richard Branson? With his brand sometimes its the outrageous and sometimes its something else.

            There are some well know "financial experts" that I know give bad advice.

            I really think it often comes to changing perception. Whatever it takes to become "the it" thing in your niche is the way to go.
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      • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
        Originally Posted by bobsedge View Post

        Why is Jack in the Box all but extinct now.
        You mean that restaurant that keeps winning all the ad industry awards?

        The one with 2,100 locations in 18 states?

        The one that puts freakin' antenna balls on so many cars I can't drive a block without seeing one?

        If that's extinction, sign me the hell up.
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        • Profile picture of the author bobsedge
          Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

          You mean that restaurant that keeps winning all the ad industry awards?

          The one with 2,100 locations in 18 states?

          The one that puts freakin' antenna balls on so many cars I can't drive a block without seeing one?

          If that's extinction, sign me the hell up.
          That wasn't a scientific statement. My bad. They don't exist where I live anymore as far as I know. Anyway, I don't think they are comparable to Burger King.

          I wish I had them here because it was my favorite late night food stop when I was a kid.
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  • Profile picture of the author bobsedge
    Jared gave great advice. But all the things you mentioned work online. The internet is just another medium.

    Press releases are not out of the box per se, but what you say in a press release can. In the past I used online press releases with great success and will use them again. The search engines loved them and I received traffic for 7 months after issuing it.

    But you see, the technique doesn't have to be out of the box, but the content and approach can.

    According to Alexa, Consumerist is the top financial blog. There are a ton of financial blogs out there. What makes them the top financial blog? One thing I do notice is that they have 906,000 inbound links, way more than anyone else in that niche. The 10th most popular financial blog has 112,000 inbound links. Perhaps there was an out of the box approach for getting those links.

    Getting backlinks, not out of the box, but getting multiple times the nearest competitor...
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  • Profile picture of the author RebeccaL
    If someone has a revolutionary method of making money, the last thing they are going to do is share it for free on a public forum. Nor should you expect them to do so.
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    • Profile picture of the author bobsedge
      Originally Posted by RebeccaL View Post

      If someone has a revolutionary method of making money, the last thing they are going to do is share it for free on a public forum. Nor should you expect them to do so.
      I suppose, but this forum seems to be very open.
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  • Profile picture of the author Matt Bard
    Bob, when talking about people and charisma, I don't think I would want to base my company on personality and charisma.

    People fall for certain types at certain times in their lives and then fall out of it after a while. People are going to get tired of the personality of the month and move on to the next trend.

    I would rather have a slow managed growth than have a huge splash on the scene and never know when the bubble was going to burst.

    Trends burn out.

    Good branding stays on even after a negative experience.
    Branding usually comes from the same old tried and true "boring" conservative methods that appeal to the middle.

    Matt

    Like this guy above me here watch out for him, he's a smart one! lol
    Yeah Exrat is clever too. You have to watch out that he doesn't edit his blog comments to make it look like he won the discussion.

    Just kidding Roger. Don't head over and edit them now to make me look dumber than I am
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    • Profile picture of the author bobsedge
      Originally Posted by Matthew Maiden View Post

      Bob, when talking about people and charisma, I don't think I would want to base my company on personality and charisma.

      People fall for certain types at certain times in their lives and then fall out of it after a while. People are going to get tired of the personality of the month and move on to the next trend.

      I would rather have a slow managed growth than have a huge splash on the scene and never know when the bubble was going to burst.

      Trends burn out.

      Good branding stays on even after a negative experience.
      Branding usually comes from the same old tried and true "boring" conservative methods that appeal to the middle.

      Matt
      Matt,

      Your absolutely right and it doesn't have to be about that. I'm not sure that I could tell you who the CEO of Zappos is ( I have read about him a number of times but I forget), but the brand has created that "it thing" on its own.

      I personally have no desire to create a persona. I would much rather my product or brand be well known. I don't think I have what it takes to be a personality, but I know that I can develop products that stick because I have done it before.

      Bob
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  • Profile picture of the author bobsedge
    By the way Matt, there are examples of that in this industry.

    Wordpress is arguable one of the top brands thrown around in our industry. I don't know who the CEO is (though again, I just read an article about him). Same thing with XSitePro.

    What di Wordpress do to outlast Blogger even though Blogger had far more clout behind it?
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    • Profile picture of the author Matt Bard
      Originally Posted by bobsedge View Post

      What di Wordpress do to outlast Blogger even though Blogger had far more clout behind it?
      They made a better product.

      Good old fashioned marketing. Think about it. Can you recall any big trendy entrance into the blogging world? No.

      Better product and a JV with HostGator and other comapnies that could use a free install of Wordpress.

      Blogger would have done better if they had just stuck with Google Blog.
      How many people knew that Google owned Blogger until they signed up?
      I think that they blew their opportunity to use their brand and gave someone else, in this case Wordpress, an opening.
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      • Profile picture of the author bobsedge
        Originally Posted by Matthew Maiden View Post

        They made a better product.

        Good old fashioned marketing. Think about it. Can you recall any big trendy entrance into the blogging world? No.

        Better product and a JV with HostGator and other comapnies that could use a free install of Wordpress.

        Blogger would have done better if they had just stuck with Google Blog.
        How many people knew that Google owned Blogger until they signed up?
        I think that they blew their opportunity to use their brand and gave someone else, in this case Wordpress, an opening.
        Maybe, but I've also seen a number of great products that no one knows about. It's not always about quality. And the JV with HostGator sounds obvious now, but someone had to think of it and put it together.
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        • Profile picture of the author Matt Bard
          Originally Posted by bobsedge View Post

          And the JV with HostGator sounds obvious now, but someone had to think of it and put it together.
          Bob you know that JVs are part of the marketing arsenal. Nothing mind blowing about them. Just good practice and should be utilized.

          Jay Abraham has put his USP on his marketing, finding hidden resources and leverage, but his techniques and methods for applying the new knowledge that he teaches his clients is nothing new. It's not over the top dazzle.

          One of his "hidden" resources are for the most part putting together JVs that the client was not aware of.
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  • Gee I have this killer idea... I think I'll share it so that I can saturate the market and destroy all possibility of earning from it.

    Who does that?

    And if this kinda put me to sleep... but I just put in my two cents so now I'm off to read more "boring" posts.

    Occasionally I learn something even from Boring People.
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    • Profile picture of the author John Durham
      Originally Posted by InternetMarketingIQ View Post

      Gee I have this killer idea... I think I'll share it so that I can saturate the market and destroy all possibility of earning from it.

      Who does that?

      And if this kinda put me to sleep... but I just put in my two cents so now I'm off to read more "boring" posts.

      Occasionally I learn something even from Boring People.
      Go ahead and spill the beans. I'll help you saturate it. No prob.
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  • Profile picture of the author bobsedge
    Well, this was fun (I mean painful). I'm going to pack up now and go give some boring advice elsewhere on the forum.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mark McClure
      Get some lookers from the local Maid Cafe as Danny Choo shows below.
      I guess in some countries you'd get Tazed for less these days.

      YouTube - Tokyo Dance Trooper
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    • Profile picture of the author bobsedge
      Originally Posted by Onslaught View Post

      Did I miss the party? You packing up your toys and leaving Bob?

      dang it, I always miss the fun

      Well, since I know you will not be able to resist reading new posts,
      I will jump in.

      While I get what your saying I think you screwed up from the get go with the name of this thread-

      When you start a thread with a blanket insult, you are screwed. Before
      clicking I thought to myself; who the hell is this guy? I am still asking
      that.

      You talk about Kern and other 'outside the box' type of standouts. Do
      you see Kern posting his methods on here? He sells his methods (I guess
      that is outside the box :rolleyes

      Most posts are people trying to build their rep and therefore very vanilla.

      I get pissy when people think I or anyone else owe them something on here.
      I don't need to brainstorm and divulge any new tricks that maybe working for
      me to feel like an expert.

      I am far more irritated with people who don't walk the talk

      Bad enough I see threads with people whining, I read threads
      with people trying to sell something they don't have- experience. There
      is so many "how to make big $$$" posts from broke ass people it is sorta
      sad.

      As much as I like to share on here, you will not see me posting 'secrets'
      that will hurt my future.

      Try being more creative with your next post. This post is on fire and you
      are getting your 15 minutes... how do you like the fame so far?
      You're right, I couldn't resist reading new posts.

      I don't think I screwed up. Anything that gets people to open up and share is good for a forum. This obviously hit a nerve and that's probably a good thing.

      I also don't think that my title was a blanket insult. As has been pointed out a number of times, boring is good. There are true and tried systems that work in IM and maybe that is the lesson. But maybe we can work on putting a twist on those methods.

      And frankly. I don't judge the people that give advice. Who knows what anyone really makes. I don't know who is rich and who is poor. We probably should all take the advice for what its worth and judge it accordingly.

      A number of people have indicated their unwillingness to share "secrets". I certainly understand that, but as we all know, secrets don't stay secrets that long. And there is probably a compromise in that position. Maybe there is a way of sharing new approaches without giving away too much.

      I don't know. As I've said before, there are people smarter than me. I threw this out there because the subject intrigued me and I learned a great deal.
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  • Profile picture of the author AidenChong
    Originally Posted by bobsedge View Post

    Is there any originality out there or is everyone just keeping it under lock and key?

    I read post after post from people asking for marketing advice and I see the same worn out, unoriginal suggestions. Boring.

    Come on people. Are there any out of the box thinkers out there? Or is everyone really just doing the same thing as everyone else- articles, twitter, facebook, ppc, yada, yada, yada.

    How does anyone's business standout out? How many articles on weight loss can possibly work?

    Has anyone read Mark Hughes' book "BuzzMarketing" ? You should.

    <Removed to keep discussion on topic>

    Share your out of the box ideas so we can make our internet businesses fun and stand out.
    In case you haven't do so, read every possible posts by this guy, Jack Duncan. He is the 'out of the box' guy you were searching for.
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  • Profile picture of the author Treece
    My aunt was a millionaire - did so well in Tupperware that her husband quit his job and joined her. She was one of those pioneers when it was a fairly new concept. She loved the product. She used the product. She loved to talk, she loved to cook, and she loved to sell. You will find people that are like that in any business - they are charismatic, believable, likable and you just want to be around them. Now we if could bottle that formula, we'd certainly be wealthy.
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    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi Treece,

      Now we if could bottle that formula, we'd certainly be wealthy.
      I have a tupperware bottle designed specifically for that purpose. See sig

      Hi BobSedge,

      I thought of this thread while 'advising' this person in this thread

      Less boring?
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      • Profile picture of the author bobsedge
        Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

        Hi Treece,



        I have a tupperware bottle designed specifically for that purpose. See sig

        Hi BobSedge,

        I thought of this thread while 'advising' this person in this thread

        Less boring?
        Roger,

        You gave this guy great advice. I suppose that there is something to be said for getting down to the basics first before moving on.

        Your answer regarding doubts was quite profound. Personally, over the past year and a half I have doubted almost everything I have done and it has taken everything in my power to keep on moving forward. All the methods in the world won't matter if you can't combat this.

        And your last answer regarding relatives and friends also hit home with me. A few months ago a close relative asked me what's taking me so long. People who work for someone can't understand the time and effort it takes to create something new. I made a decision a long time ago to cut out "cancer" type people from my life. I have enough things to steer me toward the negative if I choose, I don't need others to push me.

        Your answer proves that out of the box doesn't have to be outrageous. Sometimes honesty qualifies too.

        Thanks

        Bob
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    • Profile picture of the author bobsedge
      Originally Posted by Treece View Post

      My aunt was a millionaire - did so well in Tupperware that her husband quit his job and joined her. She was one of those pioneers when it was a fairly new concept. She loved the product. She used the product. She loved to talk, she loved to cook, and she loved to sell. You will find people that are like that in any business - they are charismatic, believable, likable and you just want to be around them. Now we if could bottle that formula, we'd certainly be wealthy.
      Treece,

      Great story. I bet she was a celebrity in her circle. Tupperware is a great product. I guess as a guy, I had a tougher time getting than some. The hoopla over plastic containers just didn't hit home with me.

      Oh well, we all have that thing that stirs us.

      Bob
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  • Profile picture of the author iblbuilder
    Surely its not just about hearing or reading, its about doing? You can be bored reading the same old stuff, ut if you don't follow through on it then you could be missing out?
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  • Profile picture of the author Clark
    Hmmm....

    The Goal: To expand REACH via marketing methods that aren't BORING to BUYERS!

    Concept: Utilize Blog,Twitter & YouTube to publicly address customer service issues with product/service within a timely, professional and helpful manner.

    Benefits:

    - Real Time (or near real time within given support hours) support of post sale/pre-sale product.
    - Increased confidence in prospective buyers and confirmed buyers via public customer service within a very timely manner.
    - User generated content - improving SEO reach & viral capabilities within the blogosphere.
    - Supports open communication between seller/buyers/prospective buyer.
    - Puts the product seller "front and center" instead of hiding behind the product = good PR
    - Terrific place for buyers to share their experiences with the product = REAL testimonials.
    - Prospects can see if "they too" can have success with the product via public, peer-based testimony.
    - No more LOST? help desk support tickets

    Here's a VERY PROFOUND USP statement by Zappos CEO, Tony Hsieh:

    How I Did It: Tony Hsieh, CEO, Zappos.com, How I Did It Article - Inc. Article

    I'd rather spend money on things that improve the customer experience than on marketing. We run the warehouse 24-7--it's not very cheap or efficient, but it allows us to get the shoes out more quickly. We have a 365-day return policy with free shipping both ways.

    Will this concept satisfy our goal?

    Amazon.com buying shoe seller Zappos for $928 million - Reuters - Latest Business News - Portfolio.com

    Final comment by Zappos CEO:

    We interview people for culture fit. We want people who are passionate about what Zappos is about--service. I don't care if they're passionate about shoes.
    The true power behind this marketing approach is in utilizing the customer experience with the product rather than the product itself .

    The product by itself is meaningless to those who don't have it yet regardless of the best copy ever written.

    The publicly documented customer experience paired with an ever growing "community" of raving evangelistic fans of the product who will subconsciously sell the product (directly or indirectly) to those who haven't bought yet is... PRICELESS!

    'nuff said.

    P.S. Please steal this idea so I'll know which products/sellers to AVOID that aren't transperent to the public!

    .
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    • Profile picture of the author ExRat
      Hi Clark,

      That was a great post.

      Hi Bob,

      And your last answer regarding relatives and friends also hit home with me. A few months ago a close relative asked me what's taking me so long. People who work for someone can't understand the time and effort it takes to create something new. I made a decision a long time ago to cut out "cancer" type people from my life. I have enough things to steer me toward the negative if I choose, I don't need others to push me.
      I bolded the one sentence. I think that they (and sometimes we) forget just how difficult it can be. For example - yes there are hundreds of blueprints and guides out there, but we can't read them all, and in comparison to the offline world, there is a distinct lack of realistic, working blueprints for succeeding online - because it's impossible.

      Most of it is uncharted territory and there is no real consistency - when things change, the changes are dramatic. If you can survive and prosper in the online world, with your integrity and sanity intact, you can probably do anything you desire - well!

      When something breaks down and there's nobody that knows the answer, and you've just got to go into hand-to-hand combat with technology that daunts you to save part of your business - it's a lonely place, but you come out of the other side with something really valuable.
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      • Profile picture of the author bobsedge
        Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

        Hi Clark,

        That was a great post.

        Hi Bob,



        I bolded the one sentence. I think that they (and sometimes we) forget just how difficult it can be. For example - yes there are hundreds of blueprints and guides out there, but we can't read them all, and in comparison to the offline world, there is a distinct lack of realistic, working blueprints for succeeding online - because it's impossible.

        Most of it is uncharted territory and there is no real consistency - when things change, the changes are dramatic. If you can survive and prosper in the online world, with your integrity and sanity intact, you can probably do anything you desire - well!
        Roger,

        There are two other characteristics that make it extremely difficult. I focus on creating applications and systems but the same is true for info products, which I have also done, but they all have many moving parts. And often, we need to do it all or at least oversee it all closely. Often, I find myself too close to a project to be totally object and my learning comes from trial and error.

        Second and this is mostly an intangible, but we are laying it all out there. Fully exposed. People that work for businesses may not truly understand this (I'm sure some do, but in general) because at the end of the day their work does not define them. This is our creation so we are responsible for the glory and the failures. It really makes it more difficult than some could imagine to pull the trigger.
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        • Profile picture of the author ExRat
          Hi Bob,

          I added a bit more to my last post, and your post was on similar lines.

          There are two other characteristics that make it extremely difficult. I focus on creating applications and systems but the same is true for info products, which I have also done, but they all have many moving parts. And often, we need to do it all or at least oversee it all closely. Often, I find myself too close to a project to be totally object and my learning comes from trial and error.

          Second and this is mostly an intangible, but we are laying it all out there. Fully exposed. People that work for businesses may not truly understand this (I'm sure some do, but in general) because at the end of the day their work does not define them. This is our creation so we are responsible for the glory and the failures. It really makes it more difficult than some could imagine to pull the trigger.
          I agree, it does make it more difficult - sometimes it's downright scary! BUT, I have seen the proof from these experiences that you really do 'only get out as much as you put in' - what I mean is that the rewards are well worth the extra efforts required.

          There are a lot less things that faze me now and make me recoil in fear, and there are even a few new things that DO make me recoil in abject horror -

          The thought of losing - my independence, spontaneous lifestyle, general freedom, control of my environment, ownership of my time and mood, pleasure of learning while earning - etc (many etc's here, I could drone on) - but of course, these new fears are a truly great thing!
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          • Profile picture of the author bobsedge
            Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

            Hi Bob,

            I added a bit more to my last post, and your post was on similar lines.

            I agree, it does make it more difficult - sometimes it's downright scary! BUT, I have seen the proof from these experiences that you really do 'only get out as much as you put in' - what I mean is that the rewards are well worth the extra efforts required.

            There are a lot less things that faze me now and make me recoil in fear, and there are even a few new things that DO make me recoil in abject horror -

            The thought of losing - my independence, spontaneous lifestyle, general freedom, control of my environment, ownership of my time and mood, pleasure of learning while earning - etc (many etc's here, I could drone on) - but of course, these new fears are a truly great thing!
            You summed it up perfectly. I'll take whatever medicine being in business serves up. I wouldn't trade it for anything.Thanks
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