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Seriously confuzzling test results

by mikefashen
16 replies
Okay I noticed in the IM space I never see anyone doing a mentoring program on a "pay for performance" basis. In other words the student paying the mentor a percentage based on the results the mentor helped to achieve.

I know part of the reason is the whole "well how much of this is the mentor versus how much is my own effort" kind of thing but still I was curious.

So I ran several split tests and the results were frankly BAFFLING.

If I offered a mentoring program with a 4,997/month price and did a decent amount of marketing to my list I got the kind of response and conversion one might expect of a high end thing like that (a touch over .3%). Understand with this program the ONLY thing I offered was mentoring and that's it.

To others I offered just 1,997/month but I wanted 10% for the next 12 months ... got NOT ONE SINGLE conversion and the marketing itself was the same.

Finding that odd I tried again, this time just a single 1,997 but I wanted 20% for 12 months and I did it as a full blown "done for you" type of thing (and all inclusive). Still not a single conversion.

At this point I'm really baffled. So I went totally insane. 1,997, plus 20% but I wanted it for 36 months. The kicker is that I offered to literally build a full blown 20k per month deal within 30 days or I would give the 1,997 back PLUS another 1,997 for wasting their time.

Still not one single conversion. Not one.

Now it can't be a trust issue because I converted plenty of people at 4,997/month without issue.

But the instant I asked for a percentage suddenly all I heard was crickets. Now that seems REALLY strange to me.

Wouldn't having a mentor actually financially invested in your success be BETTER than one that's going to get the same money no matter what?

So while the results were beyond baffling to me now I know why I don't see anyone offering mentoring programs like I was. Apparently no one wants them ... which I find confuzzling to say the least.

To those of you offering mentoring programs have any of you tested this out? Is this just something peculiar with my specific list?

For those of you that are looking to succeed with IM what is it about the percentage that suddenly seems to turn you guys off?

(Because seriously I'd rather get a percentage)
#confuzzling #results #seriusly
  • Profile picture of the author Steve B
    Originally Posted by mikefashen View Post

    . . . I converted plenty of people at 4,997/month without issue.
    If you are converting "plenty" at $5K/month . . . I'm wondering why you would be asking about techniques that don't make you as much money? Why worry about less efficient approaches?

    What am I missing here - this doesn't make a lot of sense.

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author mikefashen
      Originally Posted by Steve B View Post

      If you are converting "plenty" at $5K/month . . . I'm wondering why you would be asking about techniques that don't make you as much money? Why worry about less efficient approaches?

      What am I missing here - this doesn't make a lot of sense.

      Steve
      Because getting a percentage would make me WAAAAAAY more. It benefits the student with a lower up front cost. However when what I tell them works, I make a bunch more because of it.

      In the long run it would make me SO much more.
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Originally Posted by Steve B View Post

      If you are converting "plenty" at $5K/month . . . I'm wondering why you would be asking about techniques that don't make you as much money? Why worry about less efficient approaches?

      What am I missing here - this doesn't make a lot of sense.

      Steve
      Iam not saying it doesn't happen but it also seems really strange someone talking about getting plenty of 5K a month mentoring jobs and then promoting $7 programs in their Sig


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      • Profile picture of the author mikefashen
        Originally Posted by discrat View Post

        Iam not saying it doesn't happen but it also seems really strange someone talking about getting plenty of 5K a month mentoring jobs and then promoting $7 programs in their Sig
        The $7 thing is really just a lead generator so that I'm building a much more valuable list of buyers instead of a list of freebie seeking tire-kickers.

        I don't do anything in any of my markets totally free anymore. In fact lately I've been doing A LOT of physical ship stuff "free, just pay shipping and handling" so that I know I'm getting folks that are actually serious about the market.
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  • Profile picture of the author kk075
    So let me get this straight....if I give you $5,000, you're going to give me $20,000 a month for the rest of my life? I think that's called a Ponzi Scheme, my friend, and those type of promises usually come with a ten year sentence in federal prison.

    Be very careful with how you claim your authority; promises like that do not end well for anyone involved. If you really have that level of skill, then why mess with mentorships at all?
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    • Profile picture of the author mikefashen
      Originally Posted by kk075 View Post

      So let me get this straight....if I give you $5,000, you're going to give me $20,000 a month for the rest of my life?
      Don't be ridiculous.

      The offer was that I would set it up so that there was an initial 20k/month cash flow. I repeatedly said that I was looking for action takers because action would need to be taken after I built the thing to maintain and grow it.

      If someone were to take it from me and just let it run idle without doing anything likely the customers that brought in the 20k would shortly be asking for refunds dropping that income to 0 pretty fast.
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      • Profile picture of the author kk075
        Originally Posted by mikefashen View Post

        If someone were to take it from me and just let it run idle without doing anything likely the customers that brought in the 20k would shortly be asking for refunds dropping that income to 0 pretty fast.
        Of course it would...we both know that. But what I'm saying is, the statement of "Give me 5 and I'll give you 20" is extremely dangerous for a number of reasons.
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        • Profile picture of the author mikefashen
          Originally Posted by kk075 View Post

          Of course it would...we both know that. But what I'm saying is, the statement of "Give me 5 and I'll give you 20" is extremely dangerous for a number of reasons.
          Of course it is ... if that was all I said. But in the actual marketing I say quite a bit more than that.
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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    i would suspect the issue here is that the people who can and will pay 1k-2k are not the kind of people who want to give up percentages of their business.

    The guys who want you to coach them on a percentage basis are the broke ass people who cant pay you 1-2k

    people who are investing 1-2k are usually not dummies. i have the potential to hand you 2k right now. but you know what, that offer smells pretty damn funny to me. you want upfront money and are guaranteeing that i will make back that invest 100% in a couple months and have a viable money making business after that?

    if you can really do that over and over again, you will make the forbes list really quickly if you just started with the couple of 5k profits you already made.

    i would also wonder how big your list is and such. you may not have very relevant statistical data. if you made 2 5k sales and figure the percentage based on that, you very well could be looking at as much a luck thing as a real offer conversion thing.
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    • Profile picture of the author mikefashen
      Originally Posted by David Keith View Post

      i would suspect the issue here is that the people who can and will pay 1k-2k are not the kind of people who want to give up percentages of their business.
      Now that makes a lot of sense. The problem is that as a mentor, I really would like to get a percentage. As a student it would seem to me that knowing your mentor has a financial stake means they won't mess around.

      you want upfront money and are guaranteeing that i will make back that invest 100% in a couple months and have a viable money making business after that?
      I want the up front to make sure that I have your attention. Further, information is only as valuable as what you paid to obtain it. Free information is therefore nearly always worthless. It's why people can download a free course on nearly anything and the "participation" rate of people actually acting on it is abysmally low. Take that same information and charge for it and the participation rate climbs.

      The more you charge, it seems the more people feel the absolute need to not mess around and make the most out of what they got.

      i would also wonder how big your list is and such. you may not have very relevant statistical data. if you made 2 5k sales and figure the percentage based on that, you very well could be looking at as much a luck thing as a real offer conversion thing.
      No statistic on an email list is meaningful unless the list is at least 5,000 people because of readership issues. The full list size I did this test with is 12,412 however it was a split test so that meant only ~6k people were promoted the larger program. .3% conversion gets you "a few more" than a couple sales

      The thing is the other ~6k people didn't convert on any of the offers where the percentage was included. A conversion rate of exactly 0% (which clearly is "less than desirable").

      It is entirely possible that the reason is exactly what you said ... people who can afford it don't want to give up the percentage because they understand what it's likely to mean longer term.

      Doesn't mean I wouldn't rather have the percentage. It also doesn't mean that to me it seems like the percentage is in some ways a better deal for the student. I know the student ends up paying A LOT more that way over time ... however having that mentor with a vested financial interest in the outcome of their advice seems like something a student would really want in a mentor.
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  • Profile picture of the author Path Theory
    I would say one of the main reasons you didn't see any conversions was due to sending multiple reconditioned offers. If I was on your list(I'm not on any lists though), and got promoted the same offer, just re-wrapped 3-4 times, that would kill any trust I had for you.

    You should have segmented your list further, or worked with a bigger list, if you wanted the data to actually mean something.
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  • Profile picture of the author Brent Stangel
    Further, information is only as valuable as what you paid to obtain it. Free information is therefore nearly always worthless.
    Complete nonsense.

    Iam not saying it doesn't happen but it also seems really strange someone talking about getting plenty of 5K a month mentoring jobs and then promoting $7 programs in their Sig
    Check out the solo ad WSO if you want a real chuckle.
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    • Profile picture of the author mikefashen
      Originally Posted by Brent Stangel View Post

      Complete nonsense.
      If that's true then explain the difference in participation rate.

      Explain why it is that maybe 2% of people took action on JetPack (as an example) when it was free but it's upwards of 10% now and the only difference is that I'm charging for it.

      People rarely value what is given to them. Free offers in the IM space are everywhere and FAR too many people in this space no longer take them seriously anymore.

      And you're seriously going to poke fun at a WSO you haven't even seen? Seriously? I tell you what, since you think it's so funny send me a PM and I'll send you straight to the content. No signup page ... I'll give you the link to the entire thing and then tell me you think it's "a chuckle."
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  • Profile picture of the author David Keith
    mikefashen,

    some of us here are really very experienced folks. some of us know more about you and your various online personas than you probably think.

    i have no intention of getting into any sort of pissing contest, or calling out any of your claims and such, but rest assured many here know whats up far more than you would think.

    you asked a question and got several real reasons why it was the case as far as buyer psychology and such.

    but for some reason you have decided to try to attack those who call attention to some of your questionable business moves.....there are many more some of us are aware of.

    i will simply say that if you keep this up, the chances of this thread helping your business will rapidly decline. Take the advice you were given and use it.

    but be very careful about trying to make fools out of people who are not fools. just a little practical advice.

    have a great day sir.
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    • Profile picture of the author kk075
      Originally Posted by David Keith View Post

      but be very careful about trying to make fools out of people who are not fools. just a little practical advice.

      have a great day sir.
      Spoken like a true gentleman. I wanted to say the same thing (about your entire post) but it definitely would not have come out that "gentle".
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  • Profile picture of the author IM Phoenix
    Another possible reason why people didn't jump at your reduced initial rate is because to me it feels greedy.

    You'll help me build my business, but only if I pay you 2k (which is a lot of money to most people) AND if I pay you a monthly fee for a year? ...no thanks.

    However, I think something like 20% might work really well if there's no upfront cost.

    I know you want to get your money's worth for the effort and expertise you provide and there's no guarantee that your clients will earn anything as that is ultimately up to them, but it could like you say, end up making you way more in the long run if the system you teach is that profitable and replicable. (even if only a small percentage go on to make 10-20k a month) Just a suggestion.
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