The FIRST Question To Ask Any Mentor/Coach/Guru ...

12 replies
This is, of course, all my opinion. Feel free to have a different one and express it here.

To anyone seriously considering spending money with a Mentor, or whatever you want to call it, the very first question you should ask before you even think about opening your wallet is:

Can you show me an example of your success OUTSIDE of the MMO niche?

What this does for you is rule out the 'faked it till they made it' folks. The problem with these guys is the niche they faked it in is one that has DESPERATE buyers. Waaaay easier to sell to and 'fake it' to. Further, if they were a faker, that means they pretty much are willing to lie (or come very close with important omissions of truth) to people to get money from them, and you now just ended up on their list. Tough to fully trust someone like that. [That all is a Generalization, but I feel an accurate one.]

If they can show you an example, take note if it was a pre-Panda and Hummingbird Update success, 'cause that was an entire mini-Era of 'faking' it with BH SEO stuff. If it was something different, like a PPC to direct link aff page, again take note of the time frame (like if it was done before Google put the hammer down - and after that, they couldn't do it and had to switch to the Mentor Niche - Hint, Hint).

If things look okay from there, ask them what their biggest You-Know-What Up was, and what they learned from it.

Be smart. If you are seeking the help of a Mentor (I have no doubt there are some legitimate, experienced type folks out there that are worth it), look yourself in the mirror and tell yourself that you are doing so because you feel you need help. That can make you feel desperate and puts you into an EMOTIONAL BUYING STATE.

Research, ask questions, and give money to a Mentor based upon a LOGICAL purchasing decision, not EMOTIONAL ones.
#mentor or coach or guru #question
  • Profile picture of the author criniit
    I agree with some of your points but strongly disagree with most of it.

    As someone who has an active coaching business (and someone who has active businesses in several different niches, including the IM/MMO niche) I can tell you the skill set any running an online business in any niche is exactly the same.

    You say that everyone in the IM/MMO is a "Desperate Buyer", very over generalized but ok sure lets say that everyone in this niche is a "desperate buyer". But there are thousands of other niches that have just as desperate buyers, you don't think people in the acne niche don't desperately want to get rid of their acne and will try any and everything to do it?

    People in the weightless niche will throw money at you if you can solve their weight problem. Same with thousands of other niches, infact one of the best reasons to get into a niche is because they have desperate buyers and as long as you have a quality product that you feel good selling (and actually works!) then what the problem with that?

    As far as coaches/mentors only being in the IM/MMO niche not being worth it. THATS JUST PLAIN WRONG!

    Everything you do to sell in the IM/MMO niche, setting up your sales funnels, your auto responder copy, your retargeting ads, driving targeted traffic, blogging, and all the systems you put into place is done exactly the same way, whether you are in the IM/MMO niche, weightloss, acne, learn to play guitar, whatever.

    The skills you use to market and sell to people in the IM/MMO niche is THE EXACT SAME SKILLS you use to sell to people online in any other niche.

    Just because someone only has one business in the IM/MMO niche doesn't mean they are "Faking it till they make it", on the contrary if they are successful it means they have mastered the skills it takes to be a successful internet marketer in any niche.

    But back to the question at hand, "what is the best way to weed out coaches/mentors and pick the best one?"

    It has nothing to do with taking to the coach, instead talk to his other students! Get on a skype call with one of them and figure out how they are doing, do they understand the material thats being taught? Have they actually taken action on it and seen results? Talk to the students not the teacher to tell if the teacher is any good.

    Just my 2 cents from somebody out here actually doing what we are taking about.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10047949].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Steve B
      Here's my take . . .

      I want a coach/mentor who has taken the journey I plan to take and who has successfully gotten to the destination I want to reach.

      Isn't that what a coach is for? You want someone who knows exactly where the destination is, who can guide you there because he has been there himself and who can point out the pitfalls, potholes, detours, dead ends and other obstacles.

      If I'm in the weight loss market, I want a coach who has been profitable in the weight loss market . . . not someone that made his fortune selling real estate.

      Does that make sense? You want someone who can guide you to your destination because he has been on that same journey to that exact place and can show you the exact route from personal experience and 1st hand knowledge.

      Steve
      Signature

      Steve Browne, online business strategies, tips, guidance, and resources
      SteveBrowneDirect

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10047985].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Christopher Fox
      Originally Posted by criniit View Post

      As someone who has an active coaching business (and someone who has active businesses in several different niches, including the IM/MMO niche) I can tell you the skill set any running an online business in any niche is exactly the same.
      No, it is most definitely not exactly the same. Further, the time frame in which those success in other niches occurred has much impact on the actual, real business acumen of the succeeder. This has been a free for all, where first in line to exploit hacks and prey upon desperation made MILLIONS of dollars, not keen business sense.

      You say that everyone in the IM/MMO is a "Desperate Buyer", very over generalized but ok sure lets say that everyone in this niche is a "desperate buyer".
      Hardly an over generalization. In fact, I will maintain it an ACCURATE description. The MMO is a Poster Child of desperate buyers, one of several niches that could be said about. You have spent time reading threads on this forum, right? If you don't smell the desperation reeking off of many people here, well, you need to get your nose fixed.

      But there are thousands of other niches that have just as desperate buyers, you don't think people in the acne niche don't desperately want to get rid of their acne and will try any and everything to do it?
      Yes. There are multiple niches with similarly desperate buyers. Like the acne niche (I hope you have some medical training before you sell any advice concerning the care and treatment of the single largest organ in our bodies - the skin). Like the grow yer wee-wee niche, too.

      People in the weightless niche will throw money at you if you can solve their weight problem.
      Wrong. And the fact that you got this wrong calls into question your guruness, IMO.

      People in the weightloss niche will throw money at you if you can CONVINCE them you can solve their weight problem, not if you really can. Remember, they are desperate and will throw money at the first person who PROMISES to solve their problem, not actually solve it. Most people who buy weight loss stuff do not lose all the weight they hoped - because the solution is much easier and everyone knows it - eat less food and do more physical exercise. That's the secret to weight loss. People just lack the motivation and drive to follow through - so a dream is sold.

      You are confusing your promises of your Copy with actual outcomes and resolutions of the problem people sought to rectify when they gave you money.

      Same with thousands of other niches, infact one of the best reasons to get into a niche is because they have desperate buyers and as long as you have a quality product that you feel good selling (and actually works!) then what the problem with that?
      Nothing, per say. Btw, one of the best reasons for what? Best reasons to try to convince people that you are some kind of bona fide expert (with a false identity, err, 'pen name') and you can solve their problems in a niche you chose NOT because you are an expert, but because people are desperate and you can write good copy.

      The problem is, I seriously doubt you are a health expert, dietician, professional trainer, etc. Ya know, an actual expert in the field, qualified to give out advice. Therefore, your judgement of what a 'good' product in the weightloss industry is suspect to me. I don't think you are qualified to make such judgements. I assure everyone that you are probably more concerned with the copy associated with that medical based product than with an scientific validity that may or may not stand behind it.

      As far as coaches/mentors only being in the IM/MMO niche not being worth it. THATS JUST PLAIN WRONG!
      I certainly wouldn't expect you to say otherwise. I maintain people should avoid hiring a coach who's only success is in the MMO niche. Further, if they have had some success outside of the MMO niche, yet it is far less profitable for them then the MMO niche, I'd not give any money to that coach, either. Because they do not have 'IT' all figured out. There are bazillions of dollars to be made outside of the MMO/IM niche. If a coach hasn't been able to tap into that and at least match their MMO revenues, they really don't know what the hell they are doing and are not experienced enough to coach anyone.

      For any exceptions that may exist to all of that, perhaps even yourself, well, I consider it too much effort and a waste of time to try to vet you further, with too much to lose for going with the wrong coach/mentor/guru.

      Everything you do to sell in the IM/MMO niche, setting up your sales funnels, your auto responder copy, your retargeting ads, driving targeted traffic, blogging, and all the systems you put into place is done exactly the same way, whether you are in the IM/MMO niche, weightloss, acne, learn to play guitar, whatever.
      Well, if it is all that easy, and every niche is the same, you should be a millionaire multiple times over from MULTIPLE niches. Are you?

      The skills you use to market and sell to people in the IM/MMO niche is THE EXACT SAME SKILLS you use to sell to people online in any other niche.
      So what. Just because you can sell a $495 coaching course to someone hating their job at Burger King does not mean you have the sales, marketing and business experience to sell a $5,000,000 yacht to a rich dude.

      No. It is not all equal and the 'same' as you just described it. I like to pick on the wee-wee growing marketers, as they are a prime example of people making money without the checks and balances of a normal business, 'cause this stuff is NOT all the same as you inaccurately stated. Someone buys something at Best Buy, they take it home and it does not do what the copy promised them it did, they will march right on back to Best Buy and return it and get their money back. Some guy, who is insecure about his wee-wee size because of Society is much less likely to return the product or complain when he finds out he was just DUPED and sold a pile of garbage.

      That is because he will feel embarrassed. Both because his wee-wee is still small and will have to admit that to somebody if he wants to return it, and he feels like a moron for falling prey to such stupid promises.

      No, business is not business is not business when it comes to IM. There are legitimate business people involved in IM, and then the PREDATORS, preying upon people's desperation, who's interest is taking money from you and putting it in their own pockets, ABOVE any other concern they have with this stuff,

      Just because someone only has one business in the IM/MMO niche doesn't mean they are "Faking it till they make it", on the contrary if they are successful it means they have mastered the skills it takes to be a successful internet marketer in any niche.
      Make sure you understand that I said if that was the only niche they ever operated in to stay away. If a newbie enters the MMO niche (yes, again you can point out individual exceptions), they have engaged in trying to convince other newbies that they actually know what the hell they are talking about, when in actuality they are being deceptive and blowing smoke up people's arses.

      No newbie in anything, certainly the MMO niche, wants to buy anything from another newbie. If someone only has experience/success in the MMO, that means they jumped into it, selling crap and promising dreams without themselves being qualified to judge the quality and efficacy of what they were peddling. That lacks integrity and displays a willingness to be dishonest with people in order to convince them to give you money.

      It has nothing to do with taking to the coach, instead talk to his other students!
      Lol. Talk to other people who don't know what the hell they are doing, how to do it by themselves? Talk to other non-experts to get expert advice about you. No thanks. A blind pig can find an acorn every now again. The problem there is you will only SELECTIVELY put me in touch with a MINORITY of your clients. If I am going to talk to your clients, I have no interest in talking to the ones you cherry picked out for me to talk to - I want to talk to the people who went through your coaching and didn't have success, which, for ANY coach/mentor/guru will be the MAJORITY of your clients (and of course you will blame them - that they just wouldn't heed your expert advice).

      But, again, forget all that. Anyone considering giving money to you should talk to YOU and explore your successes and failures, NOT a VERY FEW cheery picked clients. The only thing I need to know from your past clients is how you handled problems that arose in your relationship.

      Just my 2 cents from somebody out here actually doing what we are taking about.
      I don't know what you are talking about, but I am talking about the criteria to use if one chooses to give money to someone like you. I am not talking about people actually doing coaching. I am talking about desperate people looking for the 'secret to success' being careful and scrutinizing guys like you quite critically before the hand you one single penny ...
      Signature
      One man alone can be pretty dumb sometimes, but for real bona fide stupidity, there ain't nothing can beat teamwork.

      - Seldom Seen Smith
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10048074].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
    One thing I would want to know is are they running a business or simply launching products. One thing I learned from working with several successful marketers (specifically in the IM/MMO niche) is that many have one good product launch and think they are qualified to be a mentor because their bank account got fat.

    But there is a difference between running a business and being a product launch money maker. One is sustainable. The other is not. I can't tell you how many times I watched someone who had one very successful product launch have several bad ones in a row and then get desperate when their money starts to run out.

    Think long and hard whether you want to be a product creation/launching "business" or want to learn how to create a lasting money making business - no matter what niche you choose.
    Signature

    Are you protecting your on line business? If you have a website, blog, ecommerce store you NEED to back it up regularly. Your webhost will only protect you so much. Check out Quirkel. Protect yourself.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10047982].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Christopher Fox
      Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

      One thing I would want to know is are they running a business or simply launching products. One thing I learned from working with several successful marketers (specifically in the IM/MMO niche) is that many have one good product launch and think they are qualified to be a mentor because their bank account got fat.
      Yes. One of the things I am trying to encourage people to look for with this thread. There is also more than one guy who hit it big with ONE campaign, and then when their AdWords/FB acct got banned or an algo change hit, they could never repeat any success. And that flashy $30,000 Rolex got taken straight to the pawn shop, and they went back to working a Job. Because their making money online wasn't because of good business sense and decision making/legitimate problem solving and had more to do with exploits/tricks/hacks/luck in the Wild West of Internet Marketing, which is still in relative infancy - but maturing fast an d many of those hacks/tricks are no longer available.

      Or they just showed that one unrepeatable success to a bunch of noobs who did not question them enough in order to build a coaching business ...

      But there is a difference between running a business and being a product launch money maker. One is sustainable. The other is not. I can't tell you how many times I watched someone who had one very successful product launch have several bad ones in a row and then get desperate when their money starts to run out.

      Think long and hard whether you want to be a product creation/launching "business" or want to learn how to create a lasting money making business - no matter what niche you choose.
      I believe those to be wise words and while some have had success, I see WAAAY more 'experts' here suggesting noobs jump straight into the product creation gig then probably should be advised to do so. As stated many have failed, including millionaires. Plenty of successful Aff Mrktrs decided product creation was where the 'real' money was at, dropped Aff Mrkting, and put several months and a lot of money into product launch - only to see it fail and them being $XX,XXX in the hole for it.

      People are going to get struck by lightening every year, it just probably won't be anyone who reads this post. By the same token, some noobs will launch a product this year and have some success, it just probably won't be any noob reading this post, lol.
      Signature
      One man alone can be pretty dumb sometimes, but for real bona fide stupidity, there ain't nothing can beat teamwork.

      - Seldom Seen Smith
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10048213].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    While no one wants to be stuck with a dud for a coach, I think there are a couple things to think about:

    1. What the coach has or hasn't done has no bearing on what the client will or won't do. That includes success. Just because I earned $1,000 last week doesn't mean you can and doesn't mean I can help you to.

    I think a perversion of the coaching model has come about in the MMO arena. In other parts of real business, coaches hardly ever tell their clients what to do. They help their clients to find their own way. Most of the "coaching" in the MMO world isn't really coaching at all but a class you can take.

    2. Who can advise the president of the USA? Only people that have been president? Who can advise CEOs of the Fortune 100? Only people that have been CEOs of a Fortune 100 company?

    Most of the former presidents are dead so the top guy is getting advise from people that don't have the experience of doing what they are advising about. How can this be? How can he find value in the advice of someone that hasn't done it - that hasn't sat in the chair?

    Mark
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10047996].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Christopher Fox
      Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

      Most of the "coaching" in the MMO world isn't really coaching at all but a class you can take.
      I think that is a pretty accurate summation of a lot of it.

      2. Who can advise the president of the USA? Only people that have been president? Who can advise CEOs of the Fortune 100? Only people that have been CEOs of a Fortune 100 company?

      Most of the former presidents are dead so the top guy is getting advise from people that don't have the experience of doing what they are advising about. How can this be? How can he find value in the advice of someone that hasn't done it - that hasn't sat in the chair?

      Mark
      I understand the analogy you are drawing, but will point out there is some non-applicability, namely that there is infrastructure around each President that remains consistent throughout different Terms. The people around whomever the current President may be, well that ain't exactly their first rodeo. No President makes as many independent decisions as your analogy seems to imply. Not trying to argue, just don't know if it is entirely analogous.

      You can even use a coach/quarterback analogy like that. Just because a coach can't actually play the position himself, doesn't make him unqualified to coach the position to success.

      Again, I don't point any of that out to argue, I simply want to make sure I personally communicated clearly enough regarding why I suggest to look for actual experience outside the MMO niche in a coach.

      The Presidency is centuries old, with similar governmental advisory setups, many centuries older than the US. Affiliate Marketing is only 20 years old. It did not really exist prior to 1994. Coaching, concerning any 'method' of MMO online, is younger than that, less than 20 years old.

      I think, however, we might be on the same page, overall, due to the comment I quoted above, and the part that preceded it:

      I think a perversion of the coaching model has come about in the MMO arena. In other parts of real business, coaches hardly ever tell their clients what to do. They help their clients to find their own way. Most of the "coaching" in the MMO world isn't really coaching at all but a class you can take
      A 'perversion' exists indeed, lol, in THIS specific niche of business coaching. It is tough to get close enough to the Pres or CEO of General Electric to persuade them to listen to and trust your 'expert' advice. You must FIRST prove your worth over the course of years, if not decades, before any such advising will take place. In the MMO coaching world, all ya gotta do is swipe someone's landing page and offer and and get some traffic via Black Hat or paid ads.

      In literally 5 minutes and for very little money, you can position yourself as an expert to noobs (of which there is an abundance), similar to the coaches in the 'real' world you reference. And making money doing that does NOT automatically make one qualified to give legitimate business coaching to anyone, in any industry.

      As the Internet matures, it will become increasingly harder for those types to actually make any money online by selling advice about how to make money online. In the meantime, all ya'll make sure figure out if the guy/gal telling you they will solve ALL of your problems (for that is what being rich does - it solves ALL of your life's problems, every damn one of them (so most think), and that is the DREAM most of them are trying to sell you. ROFLMAO at the 'coach' who said MMO wasn't filled to the brim with desperate buyers and I was 'over generalizing'. Get real, dude.) is an actual, qualified coach, not just a dude/dudette peddlin' information, hopes, dreams and promises ...
      Signature
      One man alone can be pretty dumb sometimes, but for real bona fide stupidity, there ain't nothing can beat teamwork.

      - Seldom Seen Smith
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10048281].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author discrat
    Originally Posted by Christopher Fox View Post

    To anyone seriously considering spending money with a Mentor, or whatever you want to call it, the very first question you should ask before you even think about opening your wallet is:

    Can you show me an example of your success OUTSIDE of the MMO niche?
    Bingo. Chris, when I saw the title of your thread before opening it...this is EXACTLY what I was thinking

    Please to Newbies out there take heed of this advice.

    Do not just take a Mentor's word. Demand verifiable information that he has indeed made Money outside his Coaching and outside of MMO Niche i.e teaching people in IM on how to teach others in IM on how to teach others in IM on how to teach even more other people in IM etc..etc....to infinity


    - Robert Andrew
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10048049].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author agmccall
    Any question I might have for a "Guru" I would ask google or youtube instead and then put my money to better use

    al
    Signature
    The Flu? Not worthy of a mention here???
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10048123].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Brent Stangel
    That can make you feel desperate and puts you into an EMOTIONAL BUYING STATE.
    Then you shouldn't be involved in "business" in any way.

    Successful people make decisions based on facts not feelings.
    Signature
    Get Off The Warrior Forum Now & Don't Come Back If You Want To Succeed!
    All The Real Marketers Are Gone. There's Nothing Left But Weak, Sniveling Wanna-Bees!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10048288].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Christopher Fox
      Originally Posted by Brent Stangel View Post

      Then you shouldn't be involved in "business" in any way.

      Successful people make decisions based on facts not feelings.

      What, you think you are different than everybody else and are some kind of non-emotional Vulcan? I assure you that emotions influence YOUR decisions, too, including your 'business' ones. It is unavoidable Human Nature.

      And 'unemotional logic and decision making' when applied to facts, when executed by us Humans, is anything but infallible, as your words seem to imply.

      All I am doing is suggesting people extend effort to RECOGNIZE that and keep them in check.

      Having feelings influence one's decisions does not preclude them from starting their own business or being successful. Letting those feelings influence bad decision making might, but that is not the same thing I am talking about.

      Remember, Spock, we are talking about people who are NOT yet involved in business (or have failed in a previous attempts). Most of them are just DESPERATE humans because they are unhappy with their lives and want to change it and many feel urgency and strong need to do it.

      They are just Humans, looking for a way out. Because it is easy for many of them in that desperate state to get sucked into thinking that this is easy and falling prey to copy doesn't mean there aren't potential future successful business owners in that group of neophytes looking for the Guru to enlighten them as to The Ways.

      I gotta say, Brent, from several of your posts I have read, it seems you and I have differing opinions on the concept of having a little compassion for people and not telling everyone they suck ...
      Signature
      One man alone can be pretty dumb sometimes, but for real bona fide stupidity, there ain't nothing can beat teamwork.

      - Seldom Seen Smith
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10048404].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author w3a5t4
    Yeah, a lot of the so called "gurus" are making too much money to be bothered about ACTUAL coaching.. they'll give you the basics rinse and repeat with the next guy who signs up... its so imprtant to look after your downline... karmas only a bitch if you are
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10048289].message }}

Trending Topics