Best place to hire ghostwriters in 2015?

by jex1
102 replies
I used to have an amazing ghostwriter (a member on here) but things soured and I have not been in contact with them for almost a year now.

In the meantime I have had lots of luck on Odesk but some of my fiction niches seem to be banned (erotica) and my jobs get deleted straight away.....yet I see a lot of "worse" erotica jobs get posted and never deleted. Apparently Odesk and adult content are now a no-go. I presume Elance is the same (owned by same company?).

Does anyone know any super reliable websites/services/people for ghostwriting other than:
iWriter (I use it already)
Odesk/Elance
Freelancer.com
Epic Write (don't know if they have sorted their issues out? Used to quote a week to complete and take 3 months...)

I am looking to hire at a rate of around $200 per 10k and primarily in NF.

Thanks!
#2015 #ghostwriters #hire #place
  • Profile picture of the author Omarkenawy
    Personally I`d prefer to use https://www.hirewriters.com/ for a while and it helped me to achieve so project. In fact Hirewriters.com provides high quality, cheap, fast and 'on-topic' articles
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  • Profile picture of the author ContentPro22
    $2 per 100 words is actually a little high in my opinion. I hire PREMIUM American writers from Elance at a rate of $1 per 100 words.
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    • Profile picture of the author Lucian Lada
      Originally Posted by ContentPro22 View Post

      I hire PREMIUM American writers from Elance at a rate of $1 per 100 words.
      No you don't.

      A premium writer needs at least an hour to research, write and proofread a 500-word article. That means $5 per hour, by your standards.

      All of a sudden, flipping burgers at McDonalds doesn't seem such a bad idea for a freelance "PREMIUM American writer," does it?
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      • Profile picture of the author ContentPro22
        Originally Posted by Lucian Lada View Post

        No you don't.

        A premium writer needs at least an hour to research, write and proofread a 500-word article. That means $5 per hour, by your standards.

        All of a sudden, flipping burgers at McDonalds doesn't seem such a bad idea for a freelance "PREMIUM American writer," does it?
        Hmmm...wanna bet?

        I pose a friendly challenge

        I'll hire my writer at $1 per 100 words, and you can hire whatever "rockstar" writers you know, and we'll see which one converts better.

        What do you think?
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        • Profile picture of the author kk075
          Experts have invented medicine to lose weight, stop heart attacks, ignore fatigue and make us immune to some of the worst viruses on Earth, but they still can't seem to cure rampant stupidity within the masses.
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        • Profile picture of the author discrat
          Originally Posted by ContentPro22 View Post

          Hmmm...wanna bet?

          I pose a friendly challenge

          I'll hire my writer at $1 per 100 words, and you can hire whatever "rockstar" writers you know, and we'll see which one converts better.

          What do you think?
          Now, I'm not going to go this far.

          A little naivete being exhibited here I suspect
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        • Profile picture of the author James Druman
          Originally Posted by ContentPro22 View Post

          Hmmm...wanna bet?

          I pose a friendly challenge

          I'll hire my writer at $1 per 100 words, and you can hire whatever "rockstar" writers you know, and we'll see which one converts better.

          What do you think?
          Challenge accepted.

          And I don't have to hire one because I am one.

          My writing against your $1 writer.

          Of course, if he's "already" your $1 writer, it's only fair I see the context of where this is going first. Context is huge in this business (I suspect you knew that already).

          But 95% of the time, if the eyeballs are what counts and you're not just driving "views," I'll blow your hack out of the water.
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        • Profile picture of the author Lucian Lada
          Originally Posted by ContentPro22 View Post

          Hmmm...wanna bet?

          I pose a friendly challenge

          I'll hire my writer at $1 per 100 words, and you can hire whatever "rockstar" writers you know, and we'll see which one converts better.

          What do you think?
          Sure, no problem. I can show you some of my previously written articles since I'm an article writer, myself.

          I'm also curious to know if you consider a writer who charges $1 for 100 words to be "premium," then how much a writer that writes average quality articles should charge? $0.50 per 100 words?

          And bear in mind that these people are freelancers, so they pay tax, too.
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          • Profile picture of the author ContentPro22
            Originally Posted by Lucian Lada View Post

            Sure, no problem. I can show you some of my previously written articles since I'm an article writer, myself.

            I'm also curious to know if you consider a writer who charges $1 for 100 words to be "premium," then how much a writer that writes average quality articles should charge? $0.50 per 100 words?

            And bear in mind that these people are freelancers, so they pay tax, too.
            Hi.

            Please don't confuse "Premium" with "J.K. Rowling". I'm not saying that these writers are going to write the next big hit or anything. The handful of writers are all in college, majoring in English literature, and don't have a job. To them, working for $1 per 100 words is great. They:

            - Deliver error-free work
            - All of their work passes Copyscape Premium
            - They don't include fluff
            - They include plenty of headings/subheadings per article (and bullet points)
            - They offer catchy titles

            What more can I ask for? The reason they perform so well is because I demand very strict guidelines. Most of the time, it's the failure of the client to give clear instructions that results in the writer and client being on wrong terms.

            Will I be able to hire writers with 20 years of experience for the same rate? Of course not. But just because you have 20 years of experience doesn't mean that your writing is more technically sound than someone who's half your age.

            I consider myself an above average writer (not an expert by a long shot), and even I can write 1,000 words per hour. I can assume that someone who does this for a living can easily write much more than this. So this means that my writers are probably writing 2,000 words per hour, which equates to $20 an hour...hardly a small amount.
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            • Profile picture of the author Slade556
              Originally Posted by ContentPro22 View Post

              Please don't confuse "Premium" with "J.K. Rowling". I'm not saying that these writers are going to write the next big hit or anything. The handful of writers are all in college, majoring in English literature, and don't have a job. To them, working for $1 per 100 words is great.
              Yes, for now!
              There are plenty of great writers out there, just starting out or looking for some extra cash to manage to make it 'till the end of the month. The problem is, they will work for low rates, but not many will do it long term. If they are good, people will want to hire them, the more clients they have, the less time they have, the more appealing it will be for them to ask for more than $1 for 100 words. This is how I see it.
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            • Profile picture of the author Cali16
              Originally Posted by ContentPro22 View Post

              They:

              - Deliver error-free work
              Error-free??? Um, sorry to burst your bubble...

              I read just the first paragraph of the ice climbing article, and immediately spotted a grammatical error in the very first sentence. I guess you missed it. I'm sure there were many more errors in the remainder of the article, but the writing was hardly engaging enough to keep reading... Also, the writing would flow much better if your writer made good use of contractions.

              Did you get what you paid for? Yes, sadly. But if you call that "premium" writing, you know absolutely nothing about writing. It was very mediocre at best.

              Btw, if you think high quality writers are churning out 1000 to 2000 words per hour, think again. Writing is an art; a lot of thought goes into a well-written article. Go back and read kko75's post again about the effort he puts into an article. Perhaps that will put things into perspective for you.

              (Btw, I didn't take the time to read through all the critiques posted above, so my apologies if my post is redundant...)
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              • Profile picture of the author ContentPro22
                Originally Posted by Cali16 View Post

                Error-free??? Um, sorry to burst your bubble...
                Hi, thank you for your input

                The extreme ice climbing article was the worst piece, and doesn't speak for the batch as a whole in my opinion. Did you get a chance to read the Nike VR Pro review? I thought the writer did a good job. Would I hire them to write my thesis? No. But for the average-Joe with a mortgage and mouths to feed, this content is good enough to help them make money online, which is the theme of this forum after all (I know it's good enough because each piece has earned helped me make money in some way). Isn't this the end goal after all (at least for some people)?

                Not to brag, but I outsourced 1,500-word pet care eBook for $5. It currently sells a few hundred copies per month @ $0.99 per copy (yielding about $100 to $200 in profits), and has done so for the past year. Was it perfect? Is it going to make the Amazon top 100? No on both accounts. But it still earned me money, and for the average person slaving away at a 9-to-5 job, that's good enough to give them some financial flexibility.

                P.S. To prevent a repeat episode of what happened earlier in the thread, I'm NOT saying this writing is "premium" (I think the wording got mixed up earlier).

                This thread is going to size up quite a bit I think...
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    • Profile picture of the author Jennifer Hutson
      Originally Posted by ContentPro22 View Post

      $2 per 100 words is actually a little high in my opinion. I hire PREMIUM American writers from Elance at a rate of $1 per 100 words.
      Lol. I love when someone thinks they're getting "premium" writing for five bucks. Laugh of the day.
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      • Profile picture of the author TobinBell
        Originally Posted by Jennifer Hutson View Post

        Lol. I love when someone thinks they're getting "premium" writing for five bucks. Laugh of the day.
        So true....they bish about the price they must pay but they wonder why the only thing they receive is crap.Sometimes people think writers are like Mexican workers....well,I am here to tell you that we are not. If you want quality,pay for it.Otherwise,gtfo or be happy with the service you receive. Easy as pie.
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      • Profile picture of the author cabenb
        Originally Posted by Jennifer Hutson View Post

        Lol. I love when someone thinks they're getting "premium" writing for five bucks. Laugh of the day.
        I fully agree with you:

        If you feed them peanuts what do you think you will get?

        Right!!! Monkeys! LOL
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      • Profile picture of the author Josh MacDonald
        Originally Posted by Jennifer Hutson View Post

        Lol. I love when someone thinks they're getting "premium" writing for five bucks. Laugh of the day.
        Laugh of the day? lol the dull day of a writer...
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        • Profile picture of the author DeePower
          "This is like someone posting on a general car forum "What car can I get for $25,000" and someone from BMW coming along and saying "The car will fall apart, your children will die, you need to spend $150,000 on a car to get a quality car".
          Does this occur?
          No."

          Actually this very sales pitch occurs very often in luxury car commercials.

          Dee
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          • Profile picture of the author DABK
            No, it's like someone posting on a general car forum: Where can I get a luxurious Yugo (or Nova, or Toyota Yaris).

            Originally Posted by DeePower View Post

            "This is like someone posting on a general car forum "What car can I get for $25,000" and someone from BMW coming along and saying "The car will fall apart, your children will die, you need to spend $150,000 on a car to get a quality car".
            Does this occur?
            No."

            Actually this very sales pitch occurs very often in luxury car commercials.

            Dee
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    • Profile picture of the author DABK
      No, you don't. Not premium. Not American.

      If you think $2 for 100 gets you premium writers, you don't know premium or writers or premium writers.

      Originally Posted by ContentPro22 View Post

      $2 per 100 words is actually a little high in my opinion. I hire PREMIUM American writers from Elance at a rate of $1 per 100 words.
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    • Profile picture of the author Christopher Fox
      Originally Posted by ContentPro22 View Post

      $2 per 100 words is actually a little high in my opinion. I hire PREMIUM American writers from Elance at a rate of $1 per 100 words.
      No you don't. Premium writers do not work for $5/500 words, and it is an INSULT to the truly premium and talented writers to devalue their craft, talent, and work to suggest premium writing is a $5 blog post.

      Period.

      You may find some suitable writers that will get things done to your lower standards just to fill the net with articles at that price, but not 'premium' writers.
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    • Profile picture of the author Shana Walters
      Originally Posted by ContentPro22 View Post

      $2 per 100 words is actually a little high in my opinion. I hire PREMIUM American writers from Elance at a rate of $1 per 100 words.
      Sorry but that is not a PREMIUM price to pay a ghostwriter.

      Best Regards,
      Shana Jahsinta Walters.
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  • Profile picture of the author RafaelThaGreat
    Personally I've been really happy with EpicWrite.com, yes they quote 2 weeks and books take more like 3-4 weeks to finish, but you can order 10 books at a time and hire America writers for reasonable rates, just over $1.10 for 100 words.

    When I first started out I would hire writers from oDesk.com but that was a terrible experience over time. They would quote me ridiculous rates for 3,500 word books ($80, $100, etc.) and when I did find a cheaper writer, I could only give her 1 book at a time, and she would take a month per book to finsh. It was impossible to scale.

    Eventually my main writer started delivering 2,000 word books for $35 and would complain she couldn't write any further because she wasn't familiar with the topics.

    Once I found EpicWrite.com my headaches went a way because I had an actual business to deal with and not managing a single employee's emotions. I can scale with EpicWrite.com, but I can't scale with 5 writers on oDesk.com.
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  • Profile picture of the author icoachu
    You might also want to try your LinkedIn network.

    There are lots of highly educated, highly experienced Native English speakers who would write for very affordable rates.

    Why?

    They are in between jobs and many are subject matter experts who also happen to write.

    They may not stay writers long so you need to grab them while they are available.

    The downside to this is? You have to cycle through many writers.

    High quality. Very low cost. Very short-term availability.
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  • Profile picture of the author jex1
    The problem with cycling through writers is it shows in the content. You can't run a 5 series of 10k NF if all 5 books have a different writer, even after editing. Readers will notice!

    As for Epic Write, their customer service is dire at best. I remember emailing them 1.5 months in asking where my work was...never got a reply. I had hoped they had sorted their act out now but apparently not.
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  • Why don't you just contact individual people, from those services.

    Ask for their email, and contact them outside of the site.
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  • Profile picture of the author TJShipnite
    There are some decent writers on Fiverr if you take the time to try a bunch. Once you track one down, find a way to contact them outside of the website so you can negotiate a better deal. Good luck to you.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jennifer Hutson
      Originally Posted by TJShipnite View Post

      There are some decent writers on Fiverr if you take the time to try a bunch. Once you track one down, find a way to contact them outside of the website so you can negotiate a better deal. Good luck to you.
      A better deal than $5 an article???
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    • Profile picture of the author Slade556
      Originally Posted by TJShipnite View Post

      There are some decent writers on Fiverr if you take the time to try a bunch. Once you track one down, find a way to contact them outside of the website so you can negotiate a better deal. Good luck to you.
      The writing one article for $5 is already a bad deal!
      A great writer will not even look at you if you offer them the $5 (actually, it's more like $4, if you think about the commissions the website applies), let alone offer them even less.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ghoster
    Your rate is shockingly low.

    Real ghostwriters have their own websites, and they charge $10,000 per book or more.

    If you just need a freelancer calling themselves a ghostwriter, you can find them just about anywhere.

    Any place that charges $1-$2 per 100 words is a content mill. You can get good content from them, but not consistently. It's basically luck of the draw. The exception, not the rule.

    Lots of funny replies in this thread. This one is best, I think:

    There are some decent writers on Fiverr if you take the time to try a bunch. Once you track one down, find a way to contact them outside of the website so you can negotiate a better deal. Good luck to you.
    No disrespect to the poster, but this is hilarious. Time is money, man.

    A better deal? Wow.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jennifer Hutson
      Originally Posted by Ghoster View Post

      Your rate is shockingly low.

      Real ghostwriters have their own websites, and they charge $10,000 per book or more.

      If you just need a freelancer calling themselves a ghostwriter, you can find them just about anywhere.

      Any place that charges $1-$2 per 100 words is a content mill. You can get good content from them, but not consistently. It's basically luck of the draw. The exception, not the rule.

      Lots of funny replies in this thread. This one is best, I think:



      No disrespect to the poster, but this is hilarious. Time is money, man.

      A better deal? Wow.
      I always feel like I'm wasting my time trying to explain good writing, its value and the appropriate rates that go along with it to people in places like Warrior Forum. They don't get it.

      Then, they're the same people that turn around and bitch about getting crap writing because they paid peanuts.

      Pay peanuts, get monkeys.
      Pay peanuts, get monkeys.
      Pay peanuts, get monkeys.


      Say it with me, now...
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    • Profile picture of the author irawr
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Ghoster View Post

      Any place that charges $1-$2 per 100 words is a content mill. You can get good content from them, but not consistently.
      I have zero expectation of getting quality content at that rate. The first thing I do at that rate is disassemble the content, rework it into a coherent structure, and then edit, improve, and add length.

      The reason I personally do it that way is because the writer I hire basically does half the work and sometimes they have some pretty unique and interesting ideas. This also massively improves my workflow, I get a lot more done that way.

      Also: I highly recommend grammarly premium. All in one quality content production tool. The free version is not that useful.
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      • Profile picture of the author samjaynz
        May I throw my two cents into the ring?

        As someone who has done article writing work at a variety of levels (from the lowest paid levels of sites like iWriter through to earning $50+ for 500 word articles written for discerning clients - the type who pay in advance) I have first-hand experience of how wide the gulf is between passable and stellar content.

        When I write articles for $5 apiece, I'm only concerned with the superficial: Hitting the word count as quickly, ensuring a level of grammar sufficient to get the buyer's approval, and using whatever keyword was requested enough to make a 2-3% density. Perhaps more importantly, the buyer of that content is probably only concerned with the superficial as well - will the article look good enough in Google's eyes to snag a decent ranking for whatever keyword they have just dug out of Long Tail Pro? In the entire process - both from the perspective of writer and buyer - is the value of this content for the reader ever thought of? I would strongly argue "no". The buyer wants cheap, keyword-laden words on a page, and the writer wants to blast as much out in as little time as possible in order to increase the $ per hour he or she earns.

        When I'm earning genuinely good money for my writing, I can dedicate time to crafting something special. If someone is paying me $100 for a short blog post, then I can dedicate time to doing detailed research, thinking up a unique angle, drafting and re-writing, and ultimately creating something of value. A wise buyer knows this has more long-term value, end of story!

        The Internet is awash with content that I like to describe as "words for the sake of words". Any of us who have built affiliate or niche sites before are probably guilty of making use of this kind of content; articles written to an arbitrary keyword count and keyword density percentage. Heck, even many big websites rely almost entirely on this type of content ... they just tend to be better at repackaging it in a more appealing format (I'm looking at you, Buzzfeed et al).

        Great content is more than this. It connects with the reader on a deeper level and draws them in. It isn't written to some arbitrary word count or keyword density percentage. Instead, it aims to teach, inspire, challenge, delight, inform ... you get my drift. No el cheapo content mill or writer will provide you with this. You'll get words on a page, and nothing more.

        Cheap writers can produce technically competent arrangements of words, based around a topic or keyword. But can someone earning peanuts truly write something of value to the reader (not just the SERP rankings of the buyer's micro niche site or whatever). I don't think so, and I'm sure many others will agree.

        There will always be a market for cheap content - at least until the day Google can accurately determine what is just a pretty arrangement of meaningless words, and what is actually something crafted with love, passion, and care.
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      • Profile picture of the author jex1
        Originally Posted by irawr View Post

        I have zero expectation of getting quality content at that rate. The first thing I do at that rate is disassemble the content, rework it into a coherent structure, and then edit, improve, and add length.
        This is EXACTLY what I do. Hence why I don't want to pay $1500 for the same amount of work as $200 because I am going to change it all anyway.

        I read the story I get, which sometimes gives me new ideas for a book.

        Sometimes I can combine 2 books (so $400 worth of writing) and use person A's POV as character 1 and person B's POV as character 2. Getting a real human being's different perspective on your plot is AMAZING for creativity.

        But because all of my books run in series' they all need the same "voice" therefore it is important I edit, add, etc to what I get.

        There have been some constructive suggestions and I thank people for them.

        There have also been some people trying to scaremonger people like me, clients, into thinking all cheap writing is terrible, no doubt so they can then pitch their services.

        This is like someone posting on a general car forum "What car can I get for $25,000" and someone from BMW coming along and saying "The car will fall apart, your children will die, you need to spend $150,000 on a car to get a quality car".
        Does this occur?
        No.
        So why should it occur in this line of work?

        I understand high value writing has its place. If you want minimal editing etc then great. But I don't.

        Just for the record I have spent $15,000 on content between March and Today.

        Content that consistently pays off every year.

        Some cost me more than others.

        Funnily enough the book that cost the least to create outsells most of the others.

        So in my experience a $150/h writer's book has not outsold a $1.50/h writers book using my system.

        So why would I want to spend 100x more?
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        • Profile picture of the author DABK
          Nobody wants to pay $1,500 for a piece that's worth $200.

          Since that's EXACTLY what you do, I think you've never dealt with good writing. When you get good writing, you don't want to change it.

          It might give you ideas for other pieces, but you don't want to change it.

          Originally Posted by jex1 View Post

          This is EXACTLY what I do. Hence why I don't want to pay $1500 for the same amount of work as $200 because I am going to change it all anyway.

          I read the story I get, which sometimes gives me new ideas for a book.

          Sometimes I can combine 2 books (so $400 worth of writing) and use person A's POV as character 1 and person B's POV as character 2. Getting a real human being's different perspective on your plot is AMAZING for creativity.

          But because all of my books run in series' they all need the same "voice" therefore it is important I edit, add, etc to what I get.

          There have been some constructive suggestions and I thank people for them.

          There have also been some people trying to scaremonger people like me, clients, into thinking all cheap writing is terrible, no doubt so they can then pitch their services.

          This is like someone posting on a general car forum "What car can I get for $25,000" and someone from BMW coming along and saying "The car will fall apart, your children will die, you need to spend $150,000 on a car to get a quality car".
          Does this occur?
          No.
          So why should it occur in this line of work?

          I understand high value writing has its place. If you want minimal editing etc then great. But I don't.

          Just for the record I have spent $15,000 on content between March and Today.

          Content that consistently pays off every year.

          Some cost me more than others.

          Funnily enough the book that cost the least to create outsells most of the others.

          So in my experience a $150/h writer's book has not outsold a $1.50/h writers book using my system.

          So why would I want to spend 100x more?
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        • Profile picture of the author irawr
          Banned
          Originally Posted by jex1 View Post

          This is EXACTLY what I do. Hence why I don't want to pay $1500 for the same amount of work as $200 because I am going to change it all anyway.

          So why would I want to spend 100x more?
          I do this with websites that market products to be clear, but the same logic applies. So I'm getting into a new niche, I don't want to enter the niche with a 5 page website because those don't usually get results. So instead of starting with 5, I start with 50 or more. This at the very least guarantees me some traffic, without links, it's likely to be completely pathetic. I can build links, so that's not a problem.

          So let me discuss the numbers behind this. 50 articles will cost me ballpark $750 to get written and it will take me about two weeks total to get all the articles and work them into a coherent site that's high quality. This is hard work obviously but I don't mind. When I'm done the website has already at least tripled in value, even without links. If I can get the site making $500 a month, which isn't hard for me because I have a lot of experience, then the site is now worth about $10k-$12.5k. That's %1600 ROI and from personal experience, that's not bad, but it wouldn't be my best site, or even close. But it's hard work and people don't want to hear that

          Worst case here for me, the site flops and it makes $50 a month, I just hang onto it, slowly update it, add content here and there, and it still makes money. If I paid writers top dollar, this becomes a risky situation, if I paid $50 an article, the site would cost $2500 for just content, so more like $3000. If I invest that much, the site better generate serious income, the only way I'm doing that is if I'm already in the niche and I know the ropes. To be fair, I'd rather spend $2500 on 200 workable-quality articles, get my hands dirty and work hard for 6-8 weeks. Now I have a substantial web property.
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  • Profile picture of the author Brent Stangel
    I use fellow warrior drem.

    DREMdesigns Article Writing & Content Strategy Services

    She has a for hire thread in the WSO forum.
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  • Profile picture of the author PrettyJenny
    I used to hire a lot of writers from Odesk and Elance, especially Odesk to supplement my sites. I retained the most dedicated ones for my team at Contentation now (sorry if this sounds like an ad).

    If you have enough time, test drive a lot of article writers before settling down with one quality one. Another way is to work with an agency with full satisfaction guarantee to reduce risks.
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  • Profile picture of the author laurencewins
    Try the Warriors for Hire section in this forum. You'll find lots of writers. Test a few if you wish but expect to pay for good quality material.
    Signature

    Cheers, Laurence. Writer/Editor/Proofreader.
    Website / Blog for more info.

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  • Profile picture of the author Lucian Lada
    Pay peanuts, get monkeys.

    Now you (and everybody else) say it with me: "People who are not very bright think $5 for an article is a fair price."
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  • Going to a company to locate the writers for you is great. Sites like Textbroker can be reliable.

    However, if you want to be sure that you're working with somebody that may be working for you again and again and you have seen their previous work, probably going straight to a writer personally may be your best bet. Just a quick Google search is all that's needed.
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  • Might I suggest hiring a writer in your state or country, mainly because they can work in the same time zone as you. If you want to get really hands on in the process, this is your best bet.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jennifer Hutson
      Originally Posted by internetmarketer1 View Post

      Might I suggest hiring a writer in your state or country, mainly because they can work in the same time zone as you. If you want to get really hands on in the process, this is your best bet.
      The entire point of being a freelancer is to be able to work from anywhere in the world. I have clients in the UK, Australia, Isreal and many other areas of the world outside my time zone and I've never had a problem with communication.

      If you find a quality contractor, time zone shouldn't make a bit of difference – they will adapt to your needs and deadlines.
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  • Profile picture of the author Houlian
    I would avoid all of the bidding sites and similar. I've hired people from iWriter and thecontentauthority, but to be honest, I've hired some of the best writers from textbroker.com. The rates are affordable, and the quality has always been MUCH better than the bidding sites.
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  • Profile picture of the author Ghoster
    Now you (and everybody else) say it with me: "People who are not very bright think $5 for an article is a fair price."
    If they aren't bright, why do you want them writing for you? People who work for less than, say, $30 an article are either desperate, just starting out, or else they aren't native. Sure, you can get good work from them, but not consistently. Head over to Constent Content and look at the prices. Believe it or not, there are webmasters out there who pay those prices day in, day out. They're making an investment in online real estate.

    A note about Textbroker and the like:

    The quality is very inconsistent. Textbroker is the best of the lot, but I would avoid unless in a tight pinch. I've used them as a client once (through Raven Tools) and I wrote for them long ago, so I know what's what with them. The Raven Tools order was a disaster. For one thing, they charged me for a L5 article but whoever actually wrote the content was obviously L3. Maybe L4 having a bad day.

    And much of the article was lifted off of Wikipedia and changed a bit.

    You are never going to get consistent quality from writers making $7 for a 500 word article. (or $10, or $15, or $25) Never. And you will waste time and money trying.

    To head it off at the pass, no, I'm not a neutral party here. I do think you're better off hiring someone like me or Jennifer Hudson or laurencewins right off the bat. You save money in the long run, and you get much better quality content.
    Signature

    On the whole, you get what you pay for.

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    • Profile picture of the author Jennifer Hutson
      Originally Posted by Ghoster View Post

      To head it off at the pass, no, I'm not a neutral party here. I do think you're better off hiring someone like me or Jennifer Hudson or laurencewins right off the bat. You save money in the long run, and you get much better quality content.
      That's if the person understands the writing industry. I'm talking truly understands it.

      Most people are used to the $5 and $10 article "writters." That's why I almost exclusively write for agencies and large corporations - they "get it" and there's always serious money to be made.

      Rather than viewing writing as a high-return future investment, the people who pay peanuts are only concerned with how much they're investing today.

      It's indisputable: Quality writing pays for itself over and over again.

      Would you rather a) Pay $5 for a generic article that's filled with fluff and BS, and does nothing more than take up space on a page or b) Pay $50 for an article that's well-researched, engages your specific audience and inspires readers to share – generating backlinks and revenue for you in return?

      Seems like a no-brainer, right? Yet so many marketers and business owners make the mistake of purchasing generic content from content mills again and again.
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      • Profile picture of the author Devilfish168
        Originally Posted by Jennifer Hutson View Post

        That's if the person understands the writing industry. I'm talking truly understands it.

        Most people are used to the $5 and $10 article "writters." That's why I almost exclusively write for agencies and large corporations - they "get it" and there's always serious money to be made.

        Rather than viewing writing as a high-return future investment, the people who pay peanuts are only concerned with how much they're investing today.

        It's indisputable: Quality writing pays for itself over and over again.

        Would you rather a) Pay $5 for a generic article that's filled with fluff and BS, and does nothing more than take up space on a page or b) Pay $50 for an article that's well-researched, engages your specific audience and inspires readers to share - generating backlinks and revenue for you in return?

        Seems like a no-brainer, right? Yet so many marketers and business owners make the mistake of purchasing generic content from content mills again and again.
        Question
        is there anyway to check the quality of the contents these writers provided?

        I do know there are some ways to check it but forgot..where to see

        because some writers " might be reuse the articles ? " we never know.
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        • Profile picture of the author Jennifer Hutson
          Originally Posted by Devilfish168 View Post

          Question
          is there anyway to check the quality of the contents these writers provided?

          I do know there are some ways to check it but forgot..where to see

          because some writers " might be reuse the articles ? " we never know.
          Copyscape is good for checking plagiarized content - another risk you run when hiring those $5 "premium" writers.

          Hiring a $20 and under writer and not running their articles through Copyscape (or another plagiarism checking software) is like having sex without a condom. You never know what strain of Wikipedia you might get

          Please understand though, just because an article passes Copyscape does NOT mean it passes as quality. It only means it hasn't been plagiarized.
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          • Profile picture of the author Cali16
            Originally Posted by Jennifer Hutson View Post

            Hiring a $20 and under writer and not running their articles through Copyscape (or another plagiarism checking software) is like having sex without a condom. You never know what strain of Wikipedia you might get
            Jennifer, that was a brilliant - and hilarious - analogy!
            Signature
            If you don't face your fears, the only thing you'll ever see is what's in your comfort zone. ~Anne McClain, astronaut
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Originally Posted by Ghoster View Post

      If they aren't bright, why do you want them writing for you? People who work for less than, say, $30 an article are either desperate, just starting out, or else they aren't native. .
      Iam going to be flat out honest. And maybe ruffle some feathers here. But oh well...

      I think it is hilarious to see people get so heated up and refuse to believe mumbling out loud "that there is no way you can get articles of high quality for such and such amount ".

      The fact of the matter is there are many people who I have hired myself that charge $10 to $15 per article that are very, very high quality ones. ( not corporate ad quality but for the sake of the IM entrepreneur more than suffices)

      I understand as a for-hire- writer this may piss the hell out of you.

      I really understand your plight and mindset when it comes to this. I do !!

      Kind of like those workers crossing the picket lines in Corporate America for penny wages and the Union members who want to lynch them LOL

      And I know you do not want to believe it. And you want to keep denying it exist but
      ...that is just irrelevant because I know first hand it DOES exist.There are definitely high quality writers I have found in the $10 to $15 range for the IM Sole Proprietor.

      If you want to keep operating under the delusion that it doesn't exist...well go ahead and knock yourself out

      But from my own experience it has been a fact pure and simple, be they desperate or not


      - Robert Andrew
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      • Profile picture of the author Jennifer Hutson
        Originally Posted by ContentPro22 View Post

        Hmmm...wanna bet?

        I pose a friendly challenge

        I'll hire my writer at $1 per 100 words, and you can hire whatever "rockstar" writers you know, and we'll see which one converts better.

        What do you think?


        Originally Posted by discrat View Post

        Iam going to be flat out honest. And maybe ruffle some feathers here. But oh well...

        I think it is hilarious to see people get so heated up and refuse to believe mumbling out loud "that there is no way you can get articles of high quality for such and such amount ".

        The fact of the matter is there are many people who I have hired myself that charge $10 to $15 per article that are very, very high quality ones. ( not corporate ad quality but for the sake of the IM entrepreneur more than suffices)

        I understand as a for-hire- writer this may piss the hell out of you.

        I really understand your plight and mindset when it comes to this. I do !!

        Kind of like those workers crossing the picket lines in Corporate America for penny wages and the Union members who want to lynch them LOL

        And I know you do not want to believe it. And you want to keep denying it exist but
        ...that is just irrelevant because I know first hand it DOES exist.There are definitely high quality writers I have found in the $10 to $15 range for the IM Sole Proprietor.

        If you want to keep operating under the delusion that it doesn't exist...well go ahead and knock yourself out

        But from my own experience it has been a fact pure and simple, be they desperate or not


        - Robert Andrew
        Feel free to post your amazing $5 - $15 articles so we can show you why you're wrong. I'd love to point out why what you think is quality is not actually quality.

        I think sharing the articles could be a great a great lesson for many marketers on the platform. The question is, will you actually share them?
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        • Profile picture of the author ContentPro22
          Originally Posted by Jennifer Hutson View Post

          Feel free to post your amazing $5 - $15 articles so we can show you why you're wrong. I'd love to point out why what you think is quality is not actually quality. I think sharing the articles could be a great a great lesson for many marketers on the platform. The question is, will you actually share them?
          Sure, I'd be happy to share some articles (see the attached).

          Some of these were written by writers at $1 per 100 words, some at $2 per 100 words, and others at $3 per 100 words.

          Can you tell me which writers wrote which pieces of content?
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          • Profile picture of the author kk075
            Originally Posted by ContentPro22 View Post

            Can you tell me which writers wrote which pieces of content?
            Nope, but I can tell you which ones are garbage.

            For example, your "SEO Guide" recaps the basic set-up information on Google Local, Facebook, LinkedIn and AdWords...that's not a guide at all. There is not a single piece of actionable advice anywhere in there that the average noob couldn't read on any site they're interested in, yet I'm guessing that you're using this as a lead magnet or God forbid an expert strategy guide people actually pay for.

            It is complete garbage with no value whatsoever, but at least you got your money's worth. The fact that I found grammatical errors in about every other paragraph also brings me to the exact same conclusion- you ultimately get what you pay for.

            But hey....you're making $20,000 a month from one of your expert skills and another $8,000 a month on Kindle (it MUST be true since it's in your signature), so I guess you really have to stretch that $28k to make a budget last. It makes perfect sense that you can only afford $3 writers and generic content....you must have $7-8 million lying around in the bank drawing interest?
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            Learn to sell like a pro through Web Synergy's marketing blog.

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            • Profile picture of the author ContentPro22
              Originally Posted by kk075 View Post

              Nope, but I can tell you which ones are garbage.

              For example, your "SEO Guide" recaps the basic set-up information on Google Local, Facebook, LinkedIn and AdWords...that's not a guide at all. There is not a single piece of actionable advice anywhere in there that the average noob couldn't read on any site they're interested in, yet I'm guessing that you're using this as a lead magnet or God forbid an expert strategy guide people actually pay for.

              It is complete garbage with no value whatsoever, but at least you got your money's worth. The fact that I found grammatical errors in about every other paragraph also brings me to the exact same conclusion- you ultimately get what you pay for.

              But hey....you're making $20,000 a month from one of your expert skills and another $8,000 a month on Kindle (it MUST be true since it's in your signature), so I guess you really have to stretch that $28k to make a budget last. It makes perfect sense that you can only afford $3 writers and generic content....you must have $7-8 million lying around in the bank drawing interest?
              Internet marketing isn't black and white as you might know. Some months I have made $20,000. On bad months I might make $6,500. It's not so farfetched to believe when you've been doing it for many years, in fact, it feels pretty normal to me. Haven't had a "regular" job since 2009 and I have absolutely no shame in that. Don't believe me? Cool

              ...and I don't make $8,000 per month with Kindle (somewhere around $300 to $500). It's pretty bad when you attempt to project your limiting beliefs onto me. Try all you want, but it doesn't hurt anyone but yourself. If you'd like to schedule a Google Hangout together, I'd be happy to share my income streams with you (via my own screen)....give you a nice reality check
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              • Profile picture of the author kk075
                Originally Posted by ContentPro22 View Post

                ...and I don't make $8,000 per month with Kindle (somewhere around $300 to $500). It's pretty bad when you attempt to project your limiting beliefs onto me.
                I quoted your signature- no projecting here at all. Those were your numbers...people can make $20k a month from your free report and $8k a month on Kindle. Now you're saying that $8k is actually around $300...if you're telling the truth this time around.

                So just save your lies for another time, okay? Everyone can see right through them here- sort of like a "content pro" buying epic articles for a dollar. I think you've already dis-proven yourself and your reputation enough for one day.
                Signature

                Learn to sell like a pro through Web Synergy's marketing blog.

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                • Profile picture of the author ContentPro22
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                  • Profile picture of the author kk075
                    Originally Posted by ContentPro22 View Post

                    try helping people and offering encouragement instead.
                    Like how you went out of your way to insult every professional copywriter on this board? It's funny that once you're caught in a a massive lie, suddenly you want to preach about treating others right and lending a helping hand.

                    Where was that attitude in your last 10 posts? People asked you politely to drop the subject but you kept calling them out, then you got caught lying big-time in your signatures. Well, I'm sorry but lying is not helping people and it is not offering encouragement either. It's just plain lying.

                    So save your "proof" of a vast marketing empire for someone who cares, because I really don't need to see it.
                    Signature

                    Learn to sell like a pro through Web Synergy's marketing blog.

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                    • Profile picture of the author ContentPro22
                      Originally Posted by kk075 View Post

                      So save your "proof" of a vast marketing empire for someone who cares, because I really don't need to see it.
                      My expectations were spot on
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          • Profile picture of the author Jennifer Hutson
            Originally Posted by ContentPro22 View Post

            Sure, I'd be happy to share some articles (see the attached).

            Some of these were written by writers at $1 per 100 words, some at $2 per 100 words, and others at $3 per 100 words.

            Can you tell me which writers wrote which pieces of content?
            Holy @%$!, where do I even begin. This is what you call "premium" writing? Seriously? Case in point, truly.

            One, two and three cent article writers produce no huge difference in terrible quality, so there's really no point in trying to shoot fish in a barrel by guessing. Here's what really matters:

            These articles are so incredibly filled with fluff, not a single one is providing any real value to your readers. I'm going to start rattling off direct quotes, so get ready.

            "Ice tools are essential the most important and also the most expensive part of your ice climbing arsenal."

            So much for your "error-free" premium content. Additionally, this entire line is pure fluff and adds absolutely no value to the article.

            I'm guessing you have no idea what "fluff" actually means though, since you think these are high-quality pieces. So, let me give you another example – or ten.

            "Needless to say, there would be a lot of peer-to-peer action and social media connection through Internet-connected television."

            "There aren’t many smartphones like it for such a relatively low price."

            "Click on it and you’ll have some information being presented."


            I could literally quote another 50 lines like this, but I'd rather not waste more of my time and sanity.

            On top of all that fluff, the articles have:

            1. Subject-verb agreement problems throughout

            "Despite what you might believe, social network sites like Twitter and Facebook are not going to take away from your television viewing experience. Quite the contrary, it is going to add to it."

            2. Prevalent grammatical errors and typos

            "Setting-Up an Account"

            "Similar to the mobile industry, there is a significant chance for business to cash in on the money making opportunities Internet-connected television has to offer."

            "'No so fast, you didn't mention anything about pricing'. You're right."


            3. Extremely weak language

            "With a full set of customizable options, the Samsung Galaxy S II sits above average in the camera and video quality department."

            "With connected TV, social experiences and broadcast are going to blend. You won’t be able to watch important speeches without seeing the amount of Tweets pulling up on your TV (You’ll even be able to Tweet straight for your couch as well)."


            Again, I could rack off another 50 of these. Moving on...

            4. Weak subheads

            "Camera"
            "Required Equipment"
            "Technique"


            Subheads are supposed to be an opportunity to strengthen the article, not bore the sh*t out of your readers.

            5. Enough passive voice that I contemplated scooping my own eyeballs out with a spoon

            "A lot of business owners like to utilize a separate account for their advertising entirely."

            6.Redundant phrasing

            "Campaigns provide you with the ability to group certain ads so that you can determine which ones are producing the best results and so that you can drive targeted traffic to specific products or services."

            7. Very awkward phrasing (clearly not written by native speakers)

            "The speaker on this smartphone is something which most people would find appealing. You can expect to receive some deep bass and as it captures some bass lines that most phones wouldn’t be able to capture. And the constant “Boom, boom” of such songs doesn’t distort the quality or richness of the song or video you are listening to. Bass deprivation is something which most smartphone are guilty off but this has changed thanks to the Samsung Galaxy S II."

            Is this ACTUALLY a paragraph in an article you think is premium quality? You are joking, right?

            The fact that you think these articles are "error-free" is quite honestly mind-blowing. If I performed a redline edit on any one of these, they'd wind up looking like Carrie in the prom scene by the time I was finished.

            They are far, far from being error-free.

            And that's just the errors. As Keith already stated, there's no actionable content. There's no voice. There's no anything. They're all just heaping piles of generic, fluff-filled crap. And they contribute nothing to your readers.

            If this is the type of garbagio you peddle to your subscribers, then I find it very hard to believe you make 20k a month, unless you've just started dipping into email marketing and have other streams of income.

            Then again, your sig said you made $10k a month just a day ago, so the last 24 hours must have been good to you Yet you somehow still can't afford decent writing...

            Moral of the story: Don't come in here insulting real writers, when you don't know jack about the writing industry.

            P.S. - The fact that you would use these writers to write Kindle books is downright scary.
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            • Profile picture of the author ContentPro22
              Originally Posted by Jennifer Hutson View Post

              Holy @%$!, where do I even begin. This is what you call "premium" writing? Seriously? Case in point, truly.
              [/B]
              No offense or anything, but have you seen YOUR website (the one in your signature)? I don't think that's any better honestly, yet, you're promoting it like it's the next best thing since fried rice.

              But hey! You "work with them"...maybe you can fix their sales page too.
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              • Profile picture of the author Jennifer Hutson
                Originally Posted by ContentPro22 View Post

                No offense or anything, but have you seen YOUR website (the one in your signature)? I don't think that's any better honestly, yet, you're promoting it like it's the next best thing since fried rice.

                But hey! You "work with them"...maybe you can fix their sales page too.
                Do you always get defensive and switch topics when someone shows you why you're wrong? We weren't even discussing websites - we were discussing articles. Or did you forget so quickly?

                I like how instead of discussing the topic at hand, you completely changed gears and personally attacked me rather than adding anything of value to this conversation (then again, not adding value seems to be your thing).

                As per your little dig, I make no money from the link in my signature. They are good friends of mine and I feel great promoting Mobile Renegade because it's helped me get tons of new writing clients. I don't mind giving a little back.

                And no, I didn't write that sales page. Yet it's managed to sell more than 5,000 copies because it's a great product and the copywriting isn't all that shabby. Again, shows how much you know about the industry.

                Lots to learn you have, grasshopper.
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                • Profile picture of the author ContentPro22
                  Originally Posted by Jennifer Hutson View Post

                  Do you always get defensive and switch topics when someone shows you why you're wrong?

                  I like how instead of discussing the topic at hand, you completely changed gears and personally attacked me rather than adding anything of value to this conversation (then again, not adding value seems to be your thing).

                  As per your little dig, I make no money from the link in my signature. They are good friends of mine.

                  And no, I didn't write that sales page. Yet it's managed to sell more than 5,000 copies because it's a great product and the copywriting isn't all that shabby. Again, shows how much you know about the industry.

                  Lots to learn you have, grasshopper.
                  How much do you charge for a 1,500-word article? Probably $10 per 100 words ($150 total), right?. Can I hire you? I'm (sincerely) interested in seeing what premium writing looks like. You can keep the deposit no matter what...I just wanna see what the writing is like. Can I hire you on WF? If so, where?
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                  • Profile picture of the author Jennifer Hutson
                    Originally Posted by ContentPro22 View Post

                    How much do you charge for a 1,500-word article? Probably $10 per 100 words ($150 total), right?. Can I hire you? I'm (sincerely) interested in seeing what premium writing looks like. You can keep the deposit no matter what...I just wanna see what the writing is like.
                    While I appreciate the offer, you've already presented several red flags that suggest you'd be less than the ideal client. So, no. I would not be interested in working with you.

                    Besides, you already have those high-quality $3 article writers at your disposal. Why waste your money, right?
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                    • Profile picture of the author ContentPro22
                      Originally Posted by Jennifer Hutson View Post

                      While I appreciate the offer, you've already presented several red flags that suggest you'd be less than the ideal client. So, no. I would not be interested in working with you.

                      Besides, you already have those high-quality $3 article writers at your disposal. Why waste your money, right?
                      You're wrong about me (I don't have a single mean bone in my body)...Ask my writers, I treat them like gold. I've had writers on Elance who completely copy and paste work, and I never even went as far as to worry about getting my money back (Elance dispute process is a hassle, my time is worth so much more). To settle the dispute like two adults, I honestly wanted to see what you mean by premium writing, only objective judgement on this side (I won't even post on the forum). PM me.
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                      • Profile picture of the author James Druman
                        Originally Posted by ContentPro22 View Post

                        How much do you charge for a 1,500-word article? Probably $10 per 100 words ($150 total), right?. Can I hire you? I'm (sincerely) interested in seeing what premium writing looks like. You can keep the deposit no matter what...I just wanna see what the writing is like. Can I hire you on WF? If so, where?
                        Originally Posted by ContentPro22 View Post

                        You're wrong about me (I don't have a single mean bone in my body)...Ask my writers, I treat them like gold. I've had writers on Elance who completely copy and paste work, and I never even went as far as to worry about getting my money back (Elance dispute process is a hassle, my time is worth so much more). To settle the dispute like two adults, I honestly wanted to see what you mean by premium writing, only objective judgement on this side (I won't even post on the forum). PM me.
                        I'll bite.

                        I just wrote and posted the blog article below yesterday.

                        Don't judge the curent design.

                        It was different , but I just redid the front page myself and now have my designer doing a mockup for the blog page as we speak and making some proper banners. But anyways, this is a thread about content.

                        This will also still get a redraft or two. So you may find a handful of embarrassing typos here and there. Hell, I guess that happens even on the sites of the world's greatest writers, though...

                        A little more "preselling" on this piece.

                        I haven't done much with this blog at all. You'll see it has a few scattered posts and no real effort.

                        But...

                        An Elance client messaged me not too long ago after I sent a proposal to say I was a mind magician and that he just came to see my portfolio (don't have one up anymore) and spent 2 or 3 hours reading my site.

                        Have you ever done that on one of your writers' sites?

                        He then went on to pay me about $1200 to create some content for him (I believe I could have gotten more, and many writers do charge more).

                        By the way, I'm not saying this to justify my rates to anyone here - I'm saying it to show that this type of content converts.

                        Sure, IM guys sending floods of traffic make a ton of cash, but that's beside the point. What I'm trying to illuminate here is that selling a $1200 service in a marketplace with competitors charging $1 per 100 words is a signficant achievement and a testament of the power of this type of article.

                        People forget that sending out a proposal and closing a deal is marketing, but that's exactly what it is. Even when all I use is my well-worded proposal.

                        Those converting proposals on their own prove your writer is not as good as me - after all, his proposals only convert at $1 per 100 words, am I right?

                        And this particular blog is a dead zone because I haven't bothered with traffic yet! Imagine it with traffic...

                        Anyways, here's the one I just posted.

                        Why You Can Copy History’s Most Successful Ads and Still Not Turn a Profit

                        LINK HERE

                        Another thing - you'll be tempted to think this is too long (and it probably is for your type of audience).

                        But believe me that with the right traffic this type of content engages.

                        I post stuff like this on other sites and it gets me plenty of great comments, people posting or messaging to say "this is one of the best articles I've ever read," and paying $10 - $30 per 100 words or buying other types of coaching services for up to $600/month based on the content I provide. Optins are typically quite high.

                        To be honest, I've never taken one of my sites the distance.

                        I was severe alcoholic for a long time and didn't have the consistency (sober now 8 months). Hell, I'm lucky to have survived. But I'm quite confident the sky is the limit if I was to truly get serious.

                        I know IM, but my trade is writing.

                        With some real traffic and the right audience, this content is worth the extra money people pay for it (and more if I target the right buyers).

                        To wrap up, and to toss in a strong disclaimer I wouldn't advise it for people who don't have the budget or knowledge to make it do something - content doesn't build a biz on its own, and I don't want to encourage people to throw money out there without learning how to make the most of it first.

                        You asked for an article, and I'm just here to answer the call.

                        I figured it was time for someone to put their content where their mouth is.

                        Best,
                        James
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                        • Profile picture of the author roger h
                          I just wrote and posted the blog article below yesterday.
                          Not a whole lot wrong with that article James Druman...

                          ContentPro22 would be well advised to take a look & acknowledge the difference in quality and
                          content written with conversion in mind.
                          CP22, this thread is an interesting read not alone for the insight provided by other posters who are clearly more qualified to answer & educate, but mostly by your apparent inability to accept your defensive position is an untenable one.
                          There is no doubt that you have got writers 'on the cheap' and that they provide you with content that you say seems to attract traffic. (perhaps its not the content that does this, maybe its external Seo - we dont know because we dont know your traffic generating methods)

                          But if im not mistaken, and i accept could be, although i doubt it, the real crux of the issue being discussed here is exactly how much of that traffic is converting as a result of this content.

                          Thats where the Premium Quality comes into it.
                          Premium quality content is written / created to engage & convert - in turn extracting sales, building a client base and repeat business (more than likely).

                          The quality of content that you get CP22 is designed more to fill space and probably does result in fairly high bounce rates off your site(s). Low volume sales might exist alright but that is most likely derived as a result of bucket loads of traffic being driven to those articles - again, it seems highly improbable to me that your content is driving traffic, rather that you are driving traffic to the content, as average as that content is.

                          So, maybe thats the distinction you're leaving out...where's the traffic coming from, how are you driving it, what are your methods?

                          Discuss that. Then your position in this discussion might then be more viable.
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          • Profile picture of the author ErickM
            Awesome example


            Reading through these articles. They sure are informative and quite an eye opener when it comes to writing styles.
            Originally Posted by ContentPro22 View Post

            Sure, I'd be happy to share some articles (see the attached).

            Some of these were written by writers at $1 per 100 words, some at $2 per 100 words, and others at $3 per 100 words.

            Can you tell me which writers wrote which pieces of content?
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  • Profile picture of the author jex1
    Well for now I went with Epic Write, just to see how long their turnaround times are.

    I can and do write myself, I just prefer to outsource to make maximum use of the 12 hours I work per day, I edit everything anyway.

    I will probably contact a few of you via PM.

    As for price differences, I have not really found any sales difference between outsourcing for $100 per 10k and selling on Kindle than outsourcing for $500 for 10k and selling on Kindle....both of them (same niche, same promo, same cover and blurb qualities) sold the same number of units...so it makes sense to me to pick the cheaper one?

    I am sure the higher fee means you have to edit less but if you are dialing down to a sub sub sub sub sub niche you need to be editing yourself anyway, less you give away that niche idea to your writer
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  • Profile picture of the author kazim
    You can offering a good rate. I think you should take a look on Elance and freelancer. These are best place for hiring a writer.
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  • Profile picture of the author kk075
    I tried to stay out of this conversation as long as possible, but I just can't resist anymore.

    If Discrat or one of the decent folks here asked me to write them a quick blog for their website for $15, I'd probably say yes just to help them out. But I would also let them know up front that I'm going to sit at my computer and grind out 400-500 words in about 10 minutes, glance over it real fast, and then hit the send button. That's the only way it would be mutually beneficial for everyone involved.

    On the other hand, if someone asked for me to write one paragraph for their homepage that's going to double their click-through rates, then I am going to carefully choose every single word on the page. I'm going to write a paragraph, build on each thought, delete about half of it, rephrase a good bit and then basically nit-pick until the content is perfect- and this could take me hours. Before I even write a single word though, I'm going to thoroughly research the niche to ensure I have the best content anywhere, I'm going to learn about my target audience and I'll base everything I do on the actual reader. So even though I charged the first guy $15 as a favor, this customer is going to be in the $100-$150 range.....and he's going to get every penny's worth in his return on investment.

    Now, when you hire someone on one of the cheap sites, they do what I did for $15....they look at a reference article, put it in their own words and crank it out as quickly as possible. Most of them are not as strong naturally as Jennifer, myself and others here though so it shows that it's a rushed article that really needed a 2nd and 3rd edit, plus the actual content will normally be weak. In journalism, we call that "fluff pieces", because it's just a big, warm fluffy bunch of nothing on a page.

    Oh, and Google hates fluff...just saying. People want to see authority in content and learn from it; plain and simple.

    Another factor is that particular writer's influence on the search engines; authorship is still alive and well these days. Since the budget writers never have anything published in their own names, they can't help from a natural optimization standpoint either. My content naturally ranks well because Google likes me and I've taken the steps to make my content visible; the cheap writers know nothing about that.

    So can you get a solid writer for five or ten bucks an article? To some degree, yes...as long as you realize that an article is a lot more than words on a page. You can get cheap content from anywhere these days BUT your readers do not appreciate cheap content...which means that Google doesn't either.

    Here's the thing though; we don't need a writing contest to determine a winner here- simply post links to your pages that rank #1 overall in Google for any keyword. Heck, we can even go with the top 10 so the cheap writers and the weaker domains have half a fighting chance. Let's take the top five pages, add up the monthly search traffic and declare a winner. It's that easy since organic visibility equals money.

    That's something that a lot of folks here don't realize though- the goal is not to continue to pay for traffic so you have a chance at converting. Once you stop advertising, then your business is dead. I get new customer inquiries daily from content I prepared months or even years ago, and the profit on that is a pure 100% since it's already paid for itself many times over. That's what a QUALITY writer does for your website...so do not mistake decent writing for true quality. One has nothing to do with the other.
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  • Profile picture of the author Stardate
    Ever thought about going to your community college and passing a few flyers out? The reason I say this is because, college students NEED THE EXTRA CASH and most know how to write very well. Why because that's all we do is write papers trust me I know, I am a student.
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    • Profile picture of the author Koolsteve
      Originally Posted by Stardate View Post

      Ever thought about going to your community college and passing a few flyers out? The reason I say this is because, college students NEED THE EXTRA CASH and most know how to write very well. Why because that's all we do is write papers trust me I know, I am a student.
      Great idea, but here in the UK you cannot ask a student to write an article and pay them cash. Called casual labour, the tax man stopped it years ago because he was missing out on collecting tax. You have to now employ the person and pay NI and Tax and so does the writer

      Perhaps it could work if a son or daughter wrote for no pay - just cost you a fortune in pocket money ha ha
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  • Profile picture of the author AdlerSEO57
    Elance is one of the best places I've found for quality content writers. They place bids on your work. It can run a bit pricey, but you do have competitive writers- and Elance has a very strict feedback policy that allows you to really check into their previous quality work.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lucian Lada
    Yes, those reports are a good bargain. At a rate of $1 per 100 words, you're getting a good deal. Still, they're far from great, and I wouldn't call the writers who wrote them "premium." They're okay.

    As for telling apart which one was more expensive, you'd be surprised to find out that it doesn't work that way. It all depends on the writer's marketing skills. I wrote for peanuts, and I also wrote for big bucks, delivering the same quality. So it could very well be the case that the more expensive writer wrote the least well-written article.
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    • Profile picture of the author ContentPro22
      Originally Posted by Lucian Lada View Post

      Yes, those reports are a good bargain. At a rate of $1 per 100 words, you're getting a good deal. Still, they're far from great, and I wouldn't call the writers who wrote them "premium." They're okay.

      As for telling apart which one was more expensive, you'd be surprised to find out that it doesn't work that way. It all depends on the writer's marketing skills. I wrote for peanuts, and I also wrote for big bucks, delivering the same quality. So it could very well be the case that the more expensive writer wrote the least well-written article.
      Right, I agree. But I'm talking about consistently delivering at a certain level. If a writer of mine who normally writers at a level of say, $3 per 100 words, suddenly drops his or her quality, I will let them go.

      Let's sit down and think about the world "premium". What the heck does that mean?! It's simply a relative term. For the price, I consider those writers premium. Looking for the next J.K. Rowling? Expect to pay $1,000 per 100 words.
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      • Profile picture of the author DABK
        No, it's not:

        premium writers get paid extra.

        Here's the definition of the word: a sum added to an ordinary price or charge.

        You merely meant 'usable,' good enough for your purposes, which do not include anything premium writers would include in their pieces.

        I read a couple of the articles, your $1-$3/100 words writers have, indeed, given you value. But they have not given you value people pay premium prices for, you included.

        I would gladly hire your writers for some of the things I do where I need writing, but I would not hire them for most of the things I do, not even for those where I need good writing and, of course, not for those where I need premium-level writing.

        Originally Posted by ContentPro22 View Post

        Let's sit down and think about the world "premium". What the heck does that mean?! It's simply a relative term. For the price, I consider those writers premium. Looking for the next J.K. Rowling? Expect to pay $1,000 per 100 words.
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        • Profile picture of the author ContentPro22
          Originally Posted by DABK View Post

          No, it's not:

          premium writers get paid extra.

          Here's the definition of the word: a sum added to an ordinary price or charge.

          You merely meant 'usable,' good enough for your purposes, which do not include anything premium writers would include in their pieces.

          I read a couple of the articles, your $1-$3/100 words writers have, indeed, given you value. But they have not given you value people pay premium prices for, you included.

          I would gladly hire your writers for some of the things I do where I need writing, but I would not hire them for most of the things I do, not even for those where I need good writing and, of course, not for those where I need premium-level writing.
          Hi. Thanks for your input.

          These writers aren't the best in the world (I don't want anyone to think that), but they're pretty good for the price. Would I hire them to write my thesis? Or to write an Amazon's best seller? No way!

          But they're good enough to bring in traffic to my websites, blogs, and landing pages, as well as write books that you can sell on Kindle.

          If anyone wants a link to the writers I use, send me a PM (I'm sure they'd LOVE the extra work).
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  • Profile picture of the author Randall Magwood
    You can check out:

    - Article directories
    - Other freelance sites
    - Warrior for Hires on this forum
    - Do a simple Google search, and research ghostwriters
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  • Profile picture of the author cheongheng
    Hi guys, I am just wondering why isn't there any mention of Fiverr? I have found a few writers there that I am ok with but now that I see no one has mentioned this site I am getting a bit worried that maybe my "standards" are too low..
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  • Profile picture of the author Lucian Lada
    It seems Jennifer, in post #55, provided you with a much detailed feedback than I did. And I agree with everything she said. If I were you, I'd leave harsh feelings aside, consider it a valuable feedback and look for better writers if your budget allows for it.

    But appreciating great content is like appreciating expensive wine - unless you're experienced and know what to look for, you won't be able to tell the difference. Frankly, I haven't written in a long time, and even when I did, I wasn't as technical as Jennifer, so even I - someone who usually charges 8c-10c per word - was surprised to find out new things.

    Still, for $1 per 100 words, I think it's a good deal. I say this because the majority of writers at this price point churn out things most people won't be able to read, let alone get something out of it. But it's not premium or good quality. Just good for the money you pay.
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    • Profile picture of the author ContentPro22
      Originally Posted by Lucian Lada View Post

      It seems Jennifer, in post #55, provided you with a much detailed feedback than I did. And I agree with everything she said. If I were you, I'd leave harsh feelings aside, consider it a valuable feedback and look for better writers if your budget allows for it.

      But appreciating great content is like appreciating expensive wine - unless you're experienced and know what to look for, you won't be able to tell the difference. Frankly, I haven't written in a long time, and even when I did, I wasn't as technical as Jennifer, so even I - someone who usually charges 8c-10c per word - was surprised to find out new things.

      Still, for $1 per 100 words, I think it's a good deal. I say this because the majority of writers at this price point churn out things most people won't be able to read, let alone get something out of it. But it's not premium or good quality. Just good for the money you pay.
      Hi Lucian, no harsh feelings between Jennifer and I at all (and nobody else on the forum). I appreciate the feedback, and just wanted to show that it's possible to get pretty good writing for a fair price (I understand that not a lot of people have hundreds of dollars to spend on a single article).
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    • Profile picture of the author Jennifer Hutson
      Originally Posted by Lucian Lada View Post

      It seems Jennifer, in post #55, provided you with a much detailed feedback than I did. And I agree with everything she said. If I were you, I'd leave harsh feelings aside, consider it a valuable feedback and look for better writers if your budget allows for it.

      But appreciating great content is like appreciating expensive wine - unless you're experienced and know what to look for, you won't be able to tell the difference. Frankly, I haven't written in a long time, and even when I did, I wasn't as technical as Jennifer, so even I - someone who usually charges 8c-10c per word - was surprised to find out new things.

      Still, for $1 per 100 words, I think it's a good deal. I say this because the majority of writers at this price point churn out things most people won't be able to read, let alone get something out of it. But it's not premium or good quality. Just good for the money you pay.
      Thanks, Lucian. I think you're right about most people not being able to tell the difference because they don't know what to look for. For me, style and grammar errors are incredibly glaring and yes – I'm very technical.

      It's important for people to know what's actually wrong with this type of cheap content and why it's hurting them. I don't mind politely educating on what to look for, but it's difficult when your trade gets insulted right off the bat.

      I'll also have to respectfully disagree on the content being a "good deal." While it may be "readable" to some folks, it isn't providing real value and therefore has none.

      Why waste $5 if the piece isn't going to convert? It's a waste of money.

      You'd be better off paying an expert to write a guide that would both benefit your readers and bring you more sales. It's a win-win no matter how you spin it.

      The only reason I got my feathers ruffled to begin with was because ContentPro said he considered this content "premium." If he had originally stated that he got "readable enough" content for 1 cent per word or something along those lines, I never would have said a thing. The former is an insult to professional writers.
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      • Profile picture of the author ContentPro22
        Originally Posted by Jennifer Hutson View Post

        The only reason I got my feathers ruffled to begin with was because ContentPro said he considered this content "premium." If he had originally stated that he got "readable enough" content for 1 cent per word or something along those lines, I never would have said a thing. The former is an insult to professional writers.
        Hi Jennifer. Apologies if the wording sounded like an insult. When you've (meaning me) never actually been on the writing side of the industry, I guess it can be difficult to see things from that point of view. Anyway, thanks for the input!
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  • Profile picture of the author MMMartin
    I have found some good writers for cheap here on WarriorForum, but it is hit or miss. You have to get through a few bad writers to find that good one.
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  • Profile picture of the author jex1
    So where can I get ghostwriters who will write $10k books to my spec/plot/guidelines for under $300?
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    • Profile picture of the author Jennifer Hutson
      Originally Posted by jex1 View Post

      So where can I get ghostwriters who will write $10k books to my spec/plot/guidelines for under $300?
      You won't. Better to just write the books yourself for that price. Sorry to keep hammering it in, but it's the truth. No decent writer will write 10,000 words for under $300.

      You can probably find someone who will write extremely generic, uninteresting word soup for that price, but it will not be a good read and anyone who buys the book is not going to be happy about the purchase.

      If you're fine putting your name on something like that, then low-quality writers on oDesk or Elance are a dime a dozen.

      This isn't an article. It's a book. A book. Why wouldn't I just write the book and release it myself for that amount of pay? Would you do the job for $200? Ask yourself that question every time you're wondering what you should pay for a project. If the answer is "No, I wouldn't" then you should consider raising your budget in order to to get quality work.

      Did you see the articles CP22 linked that I gave feedback on? That's the type of quality you'll get out of a $200/10,000-word writer. Then you're ready to turn around and sell that to people?
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      • Profile picture of the author jex1
        Originally Posted by Jennifer Hutson View Post

        You won't. Better to just write the books yourself for that price. Sorry to keep hammering it in, but it's the truth. No decent writer will write 10,000 words for under $300.

        You can probably find someone who will write extremely generic, uninteresting word soup for that price, but it will not be a good read and anyone who buys the book is not going to be happy about the purchase.

        If you're fine putting your name on something like that, then low-quality writers on oDesk or Elance are a dime a dozen.

        This isn't an article. It's a book. A book. Why wouldn't I just write the book and release it myself for that amount of pay? Would you do the job for $200? Ask yourself that question every time you're wondering what you should pay for a project. If the answer is "No, I wouldn't" then you should consider raising your budget in order to to get quality work.

        Did you see the articles CP22 linked that I gave feedback on? That's the type of quality you'll get out of a $200/10,000-word writer. Then you're ready to turn around and sell that to people?
        I have been doing this for 2 years now. I already have great writers for that price point, I just require more and Odesk has changed its terms.

        Sorry but it is really hard taking advice from someone who charges way more than I want for ghostwriting telling me that cheaper work will be shoddy, it's not exactly like your posts are unbiased is it?

        To add to this, just because someone is expensive doesn't necessarily mean they are actually good.

        I mean if you charged $10k for 10,000 words and someone charges $5k for 10,000 words, by your logic, $5k for 10k words is "shoddy" just because the other person is twice as much?

        Diminishing returns et all
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        • Profile picture of the author Jennifer Hutson
          Originally Posted by jex1 View Post

          I have been doing this for 2 years now. I already have great writers for that price point, I just require more and Odesk has changed its terms.
          You may have gotten lucky with someone who was just starting out and didn't know how to set their rates. Or, the more likely scenario, what you think is "great writing" actually isn't.

          You can always find out, although after what CP22 linked, I'm sure you'd rather stay blissfully ignorant than be shown your content is a mess.

          Originally Posted by jex1 View Post

          Sorry but it is really hard taking advice from someone who charges way more than I want for ghostwriting telling me that cheaper work will be shoddy, it's not exactly like your posts are unbiased is it?
          How am I biased? I in no way want anything to do with your erotica books, trust me. Lol. I have no interest in your project – just telling you the facts.

          Why should you take advice from me? Because this is my trade, I've been making a full-time income from freelancing for the last five years and I actually know a thing or two.

          You, on the other hand, are just looking for cheap labor and think that because you found one writer who wrote good content at 2 cents per word (still up for debate until you show us the book) that there are tons of amazing writers at that price point.

          News flash: There aren't.

          Originally Posted by jex1 View Post

          To add to this, just because someone is expensive doesn't necessarily mean they are actually good.

          I mean if you charged $10k for 10,000 words and someone charges $5k for 10,000 words, by your logic, $5k for 10k words is "shoddy" just because the other person is twice as much?

          Diminishing returns et all
          Of course just because someone is expensive doesn't automatically mean they're good. I never said that. But there's a huge difference in caliber in a $10,000 writer and a $200 writer.

          If you find someone with a great reputation at a high price point, odds are they're not going to suck. Will they be worth it? That's up to you to do your research and decide.

          For the record, I wasn't the one that brought up the $10,000 price point. I'd charge around $1500, myself (for 10,000 words). If I specialized in ghostwriting only, I'd be charging more. Writing a book that you won't be credited for is a big deal. Very new writers and writers who work for peanuts don't understand this. Professionals do.

          How many copies do your 2 cent ebooks actually sell? What are their reviews like? Feel free to link to them on Amazon and show me that cheap writers still sell books and get great reviews. Or better yet, link the actual document. I'm happy to be proven wrong.
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  • Profile picture of the author roger h
    Unsurprisingly, this thread is a better read than any of the low paid content quoted & discussed here...

    Especially any of the posts by Jennifer Hutson.
    She Rocks. Alot.

    (im quietly hoping this thead continues on for another 3 or 4 pages)
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  • Profile picture of the author GenMickensJr
    Man, I am a decent starving writer. I would take a job for $300.00 if that meant it kept a roof over my head and food in my system. I am there. I'd give my all, pray that in the future. I might get even better gigs.
    Sometimes you just have to do what you have to do to make it. I mean, I get what everyone is saying and heck. Right off the bat, I want to be charging $1,000 for 10,000 words. You'd get the best sex on paper you ever bought but hey. In time, they say. In time..

    That's like 6 boxes of top ramen and siracha sauce. I might even be able to splurge. Even though I am a US native writer, YOU GOTTA DO WHAT YOU CAN until you hit the big deals. Then you are moving up to noodles in the restaurant!
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    • Profile picture of the author ContentPro22
      Originally Posted by GenMickensJr View Post

      Man, I am a decent starving writer. I would take a job for $300.00 if that meant it kept a roof over my head and food in my system. I am there. I'd give my all, pray that in the future. I might get even better gigs.

      Sometimes you just have to do what you have to do to make it. I mean, I get what everyone is saying and heck. Right off the bat, I want to be charging $1,000 for 10,000 words. You'd get the best sex on paper you ever bought but hey. In time, they say. In time..

      That's like 6 boxes of top ramen and siracha sauce. I might even be able to splurge. Even though I am a US native writer, YOU GOTTA DO WHAT YOU CAN until you hit the big deals. Then you are moving up to noodles in the restaurant!
      Have you considered learning how to monetize your writing skills in a field other than freelance writing? Like blogging, affiliate marketing, or email marketing? You've already got half of your expenses paid for (most people hire writers for their email followups, blog posts, etc.). You could still even write on the side if you wanted to, but still have nice passive supplemental income coming in on the side.
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      • Profile picture of the author GenMickensJr
        Originally Posted by ContentPro22 View Post

        Have you considered learning how to monetize your writing skills in a field other than freelance writing? Like blogging, affiliate marketing, or email marketing? You've already got half of your expenses paid for (most people hire writers for their email followups, blog posts, etc.). You could still even write on the side if you wanted to, but still have nice passive supplemental income coming in on the side.
        I'm still venturing. I set up a thread here, but for now I am just learning and understanding. Biding my time. I am sure, I'll get work eventually that will be worth my time and energy.
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  • Profile picture of the author jex1
    Why should I have to post proof and justify my opinion to you?

    All I want to know is in my OP - where can I find x for x?

    If you have no input on that question and just want to argue with it and be a general troll, can you do me a big favor and STAY OUT OF MY THREAD?

    Thank you.
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  • Profile picture of the author Koolsteve
    I looked at HireWriter and you can choose levels of skill. Also you view the article and reject if not the quality you require. Probably this is the case with other sources. That being so, I don't see the problem of using such places if your budget does not stretch to higher priced resources. Just a thought.
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  • Profile picture of the author Koolsteve
    Just to add a little more. Some time ago I hired a lady writer advertising on Fiverr. She wrote a number of top quality articles for me for the ceremonial $5. After a while she stopped using Fiverr and I kept in touch. She now charges $10 and the work is truly excellent and well researched. No I am not going to give you her details because she gets very busy and I don't want my articles delayed ha ha!
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert999
    Originally Posted by jex1 View Post

    I used to have an amazing ghostwriter (a member on here) but things soured and I have not been in contact with them for almost a year now.

    In the meantime I have had lots of luck on Odesk but some of my fiction niches seem to be banned (erotica) and my jobs get deleted straight away.....yet I see a lot of "worse" erotica jobs get posted and never deleted. Apparently Odesk and adult content are now a no-go. I presume Elance is the same (owned by same company?).

    Does anyone know any super reliable websites/services/people for ghostwriting other than:
    iWriter (I use it already)
    Odesk/Elance
    Freelancer.com
    Epic Write (don't know if they have sorted their issues out? Used to quote a week to complete and take 3 months...)

    I am looking to hire at a rate of around $200 per 10k and primarily in NF.

    Thanks!
    I suggest using iwriter.com. Hire the elite writers only. The advantage is that you can get your content within few hours and you can simply reject the content if you don't like it.
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  • Profile picture of the author RafaelThaGreat
    I've found a way to get PREMIUM writers for penny's on the dollar.

    My SECRET?

    I hire 8th graders to write my articles.

    You're all welcome.
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    I plan to rule the world.... Starting Monday.

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  • Profile picture of the author srp0987
    Numerous people have already commented on the issue of writer pay generally. But specifically regarding fiction writers--especially erotic fiction--being willing to pay to receive quality writing is even more important. Why? Well, basically you're asking people to pay for something that a lot of (fanfic) writers already put out there for free! Some of which is published book-quality material. To compete in that marketplace, you really do need quality. If you're going to publish on Kindle, for instance, people really will read the free sample before paying for the full book.

    For genre fiction, your best bet is to hire a ghostwriter who specializes in that kind of work. A good one won't be cheap, but there are writers out there who want to write for a living but don't want to deal with the marketing end of things.
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  • Profile picture of the author sandy012
    Hi, I am interested to write for you but i am new and do not have any blog to give you to see.You can test me if you want me to write for you.
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  • Profile picture of the author 64wegrow
    I've acquired 3 solid copy guys at hirewriters dotcom. Their are quality writers on that site, but you'll have to test a whole bunch to find the one or two gems.
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  • Profile picture of the author usmantech
    Freelancers is the cheapest place to hire ghostwriters. But it is overcrowded with non-native english writers which in most cases are churning out low quality content. But with an eye to spot a good writer, it is possible at Freelancer.
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  • Profile picture of the author laurencewins
    I have to get off the floor form laughing so hard at some of the comments in this thread. We seem to have lots of writers of various standards offering numerous ways to make money from their writing and where to look for work.
    This forum is an ideal place to get work, or so I have found. However, I have other sources as well. You can't put all your eggs in one basket. In an ideal world you need regular long- term customers and ad hoc ones as well. The more regulars you have, the better off you are.

    That's my 1 cent worth.
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    Cheers, Laurence. Writer/Editor/Proofreader.
    Website / Blog for more info.

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  • Profile picture of the author jex1
    EXACTLY

    The people saying that it is too cheap don't care if our product/site/book works out profitable for us. They just care about the money they get. They don't understand and so it is pretty pointless debating it with them hah!
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    • Profile picture of the author DABK
      And why on earth should they care if it's profitable for you? Are you paying them a part of the profit?

      And have you tried any testing to see if higher paid writers earn you more?

      I mean, how do you know that the $10/writers that are making you $3,000 aren't actually costing you? I mean, what if $40 dollar writers would make you $4000 or $8000 in the same amount of time, with the same effort on your side?

      Plus, Exactly, when you pay $5/article but then have to rewrite to make it work, the article isn't $5 anymore, is it? Or is your time worth nothing?

      The big argument started because someone called $1 writers 'premium writers' not because someone said $1 writers' output can't be used in a profitable way.

      Originally Posted by jex1 View Post

      EXACTLY

      The people saying that it is too cheap don't care if our product/site/book works out profitable for us. They just care about the money they get. They don't understand and so it is pretty pointless debating it with them hah!
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