On plagiarism and citing sources, references

by julianwebb

Posted: 8 years ago 17 replies

INTERNET MARKETING

Hi everyone,

I thought it would be appropriate to start this thread, but I'm pasting what I've posted on the thread Any plagiarism software that is free and reliable? below (modified). I'll delete my posts on the said thread (if no one replies) later.

Originally Posted by Alexa Smith

You have absolutely no reason to be concerned about any "plagiarism thing", if you wrote it all by yourself.

There's no issue here, and no problem. Forget about this.

The "plagiarism thing" is a problem only for people who have copied others' words/text/articles, not for people like you and me who write our own.

I know a lot of threads had this topic already, but this "plagiarism thing" and how to "cite sources properly" still confuse me.

I would like to quote MikeFriedman on a thread entitled Why Bother Spinning??!: "If Google hated "plagarism" so much, then any site publishing press releases would get hammered. Everyone utilizing the Associated Press for content would get smashed."

I've found that a definition of plagiarism is also "taking someone's words or ideas as if they were your own".

I don't know, but it seems to me Alexa's suggesting above that it's ok to use any ideas or facts (from sources) as long as you don't copy chunks word for word from articles in which you got your ideas from. But she also mentioned on her blog to "source the factual content offline as well as online".

My questions are: When do we need to and how should we cite our sources/references--specifically on a blog (and eventually when our articles are going to be syndicated)? I have a blog. I was doing research but have decided to delay posting the article because I realized I really don't know how to properly cite references (on a blog). I read and get ideas (or facts?) from at least 10 online articles. So (for an exaggerated but somewhat realistic example), if I would read and use information from 30 online (and offline) articles, how do I cite them (if there's a need, apparently)?

I'm not sure if Alexa's really banned, and if calling all my other heroes to reply on this thread would be cool.

But let me try on MYOB, JohnMcCabe, and Joe Robinson first.

Of course, everyone else is invited to answer my questions.

#citing #plagiarism #plagiarize #plagiarizing #references #sources

aizaku 8 years ago

you got the gist right.

paraphrase don't parrot-phrase and you'll be all right!

cite research not inspiration for your blog posts

if you want to cite something, cite it at the bottom of your post. Tim Ferriss blog is a good example of that.

Make sure to add the no follow tag to any links pointing out of your website.
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icoachu

8 years ago

Well, there's some confusion here.

Are you afraid of plagiarism as in ACADEMIC plagiarism?

Are you afraid of plagiarism as in SEO/Duplicate content plagiarism?

Are you afraid of copyright infringment claims?

The 3 things above are different.

Even if you REWORD ideas, if it's still someone else's ideas, you may run into trouble academically...unless you ATTRIBUTE.

That's different from ...

Copyright issues which is about protecting the EXPRESSION (wording/presentation) of ideas

Which is different from...

SEO penalties which focuses more on copy and paste jobs

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julianwebb

8 years ago

Originally Posted by icoachu

Are you afraid of plagiarism as in ACADEMIC plagiarism?

Can you elaborate on this?

The thing is, I would like to do quality research, offline if possible, such that I could give my readers something fresh--i.e., not something they can easily find on the web.

With that said, I would like to attribute to all possible sources I can find, and I believe no sources in any particular form should be excluded.

What am I missing?

Are you afraid of plagiarism as in SEO/Duplicate content plagiarism?

I don't intend to copy word for word. Any information I get from research I will try to express in my own words. If I quote something, I will definitely cite its source.

I don't think I should be worried with this.

I'm aware of this. I'm not really a fan of "copy and paste jobs"

Even if you REWORD ideas, if it's still someone else's ideas, you may run into trouble academically...unless you ATTRIBUTE.

This is actually my concern. What if in one article, I happen to come across 30 sources? (It could happen.)

Perhaps I can add a question:

Up to how many sources is optimal, or up to how many sources should we use for one article?

How do you do it?

Thanks for your replies.

Thanks
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myob

8 years ago

This topic has been discussed quite often over the years. Here's an example[*] with sources cited.

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Kay King

8 years ago

The quote from Alexa is as clear as possible - there's no question what it says. I don't know how you came up with the name "Joe Robinson" as he's been banned here for 2 years or more. Could it be this is an "additional" acct for you?

You cannot copyright "ideas" - that falls into patent and perhaps trademark...not copyright.

https://www.legalzoom.com/articles/5...cant-copyright

Works Unprotected by Copyright Law (BitLaw)

II. What can and can

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julianwebb 8 years ago

I'm actually reading some posts about this topic now. Sometimes when you're impatient, you just won't find what you're looking for.

I didn't know Batman (Joe) has been banned for quite a long time now. I hope these guys would get un-banned soon.

Thanks for your replies.
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Banned 8 years ago

Originally Posted by julianwebb

I didn't know Batman (Joe) has been banned for quite a long time now. I hope these guys would get un-banned soon.

Originally Posted by Kay King

What happened to Joseph Robinson? He was such a great guy, esp. after he learned about Julian Mantle, the man who taught wise and practical lessons which brought drastic changes to his life.

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julianwebb

8 years ago

Originally Posted by myob

Here's an example[*] with sources cited.

I just read/browsed these references.

The following questions are in the context of posting/publishing online. I can assume you run blogs?

1. Do all of your articles follow (roughly) the bibliography style you mentioned above? I understand the value of creating unique content, etc., but a good article should have facts (preferably fresh or "not-so-popular")... So all your articles have citations?

2. In all article in all niches, there should be citations--is this correct? Ok, because I think we can be "personal" in our articles that we may "state facts (or other people's ideas) as our opinion".

3. If there are niches that don't really need citations, what are they?

I find that a lot of blogs or sites in my niche don't cite sources. (Perhaps I haven't found the real blogs or sites yet? Or are they just being "personal"?)

Also, like many other sites do, those in my niche use outbound links thru "anchor texts" within their content, which you say you don't prefer doing, which I also agree with. (I want them to stay on my site, not send them anywhere else.) Internal linking should be a different story, eh? Anyway, I just mentioned this because there's a lot of information that's taught by a lot of "gurus", and it all becomes really confusing. But I think I'd like to give article syndication a shot, and really learn article marketing. The model may require hard work, but I like it.

Others say that when you become an "expert" in your niche, citing sources may then be dropped because you're an expert now, i.e., you really know what you're saying and doing. Certainly I want to be an "expert", too. But even then, I'd still want to do everything right as much as possible.

I'm aware that you have your team of researchers and writers. Maybe it's also because of the sites I see in my niche, but I just don't easily "accept" that every article I post online should have citations. This idea is also influenced by others who write all their articles, like Alexa Smith, who writes 5+ articles per week. (She in 8 niches, right?)

So with this and that, potato and tomato, what is it?!? (my questions above)

Thanks
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Devilfish168

8 years ago

i think is subjective?

because we usually do the same niche ....

surely got some plagiarism ...." which many claim that is normal "

as there are many numerous same sites doing the same niche thus same keywords , etc.

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julianwebb

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Devilfish168

because we usually do the same niche ....

surely got some plagiarism ...." which many claim that is normal "

as there are many numerous same sites doing the same niche thus same keywords , etc.

I figured there must be a thin line in the context of plagiarism, but that line may not be really "thin" at all.

But I wouldn't really want to do "what everybody else does in a niche".

Thanks; I can't find my "Thanks" button.

Thanks
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JohnMcCabe

8 years ago

My way of citing references depends on how I'm using the material.

For example:

> According to Joe Blow, in his book [name of book], thus and such. My take on that is...

If people really want to read the book, they have the name. The link is unnecessary.

> Jane Authority wrote [summary] on her blog, name of blog. [My comments]. If you want to read the original post, you can find it at [link, set to open in a new window or tab].

Again, if they want the original post, they can follow the link, and I'll be waiting when they get back. I don't mess with all the no-follow stuff.

> For a direct quote, I'll attribute it, and provide an anchor link to the proper citation at the bottom.

In whatever form it takes, other peoples' content should just be building blocks within your own content. If all you do is regurgitate other peoples' stuff on your blog, who needs your blog? On the other hand, if you take other peoples' stuff and add your own value to it, you provide a service to others.

If you do use someone else's work in complete form, like adding an article to an ebook as a bonus, and you do it with permission, make sure you add the phrase "used with permission" or "reprinted with permission." And keep some evidence of that permission, like an email, so that you can produce it if need be.

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julianwebb

8 years ago

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

> Jane Authority wrote [summary] on her blog, name of blog. [My comments]. If you want to read the original post, you can find it at [link, set to open in a new window or tab].

How about "Jane Authority wrote [summary] on her blog, name of blog," name of blog being the link?

I don't mess with all the no-follow stuff.

"No-follow" links don't have any real use, do they? I actually learned about them from a post you made. It wouldn't matter whether links to authority sources are "no-follow" or not as long as your content brings value, right?

If all you do is regurgitate other peoples' stuff on your blog, who needs your blog? On the other hand, if you take other peoples' stuff and add your own value to it, you provide a service to others.

I'm learning this the hard way and seeing regurgitated information makes me sick. I see it every time. These information are usually good to the ears and sound factual (partly because they're regurgitated), when most of them are simply guesses and speculations. This is one reason why many people hate "marketers", I think.

Thanks, John.

Thanks
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JohnMcCabe

8 years ago

Originally Posted by julianwebb

How about "Jane Authority wrote [summary] on her blog, name of blog," name of blog being the link?

That will work, but I prefer to deep link to the actual post. Partly for personal preference, and partly because some people still offer trackbacks.

Originally Posted by julianwebb

You're right. "nofollow" has no meaning. There is only the presence or absence of "do-follow", and I'm not convinced that's all that effective anymore.

Originally Posted by julianwebb

Even guesses and speculation are fine, as long as they are your guesses and speculation and identified as such. Most of the "re-writers" are only fooling themselves, as anyone paying the least attention can usually spot line-by-line derivative works.

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julianwebb

8 years ago

Originally Posted by HN

What happened to Joseph Robinson? He was such a great guy, esp. after he learned about Julian Mantle, the man who taught wise and practical lessons which brought drastic changes to his life.

Intriguing.

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

That will work, but I prefer to deep link to the actual post.

Oh yes, sure. My bad. Deep linking all the way. I'd prefer something like "In Jane Authority's post, [title], ..." or just "In Jane Authority's post, ...", the bold bits being the links.

I just read the editorial guidelines by Ezine Articles yesterday. I say they're liberating.

And read some posts by "top authors" in my niche too.

I think I'd like to adopt those guidelines for my blog, with just a bit of flexibility for my blog. Like these guidelines/specifications:

1. Number of links in the article
2. Where to put those links (preferably not above the fold)
3. Not giving a hoot about fluff--I'm guilty of this. Sometimes I feel like I'm indeed presenting valuable content, when I'm only regurgitating stuff.
4. (Just a bonus) The smart quotes! (I didn't know about such issue!)

John, when you write articles for blogs, do you do it as if they're for article directories already?

I think Ezine Articles's guidelines are for the benefit of everybody--the author, editors, especially the customers. Those guidelines may increase a blog's overall quality too, unless there's an obvious need not to use them, or those guidelines don't fit the niche at all (if there's such a niche).

I'm going to read/browse other directories' editorial guidelines, but I'm guessing they're all 97.673% the same.

Thanks
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myob

8 years ago

Originally Posted by julianwebb

I just read/browsed these references.

Sorry for the delay in responding, but it appears you're getting some alternative viewpoints.

Originally Posted by julianwebb

The following questions are in the context of posting/publishing online. I can assume you run blogs?

Blogs were never much a part of my marketing. I've always preferred static websites and the article archives themselves were seldom conspicuous on these sites.

Originally Posted by julianwebb

With rare exceptions, all of my articles had citations closely arranged in the style above. This format may also be found in Wikipedia, although I've always limited citations to 3-5 inside links per article.

Originally Posted by julianwebb

2. In all article in all niches, there should be citations--is this correct? Ok, because I think we can be "personal" in our articles that we may "state facts (or other people's ideas) as our opinion".

It depends upon the purpose of the article, your marketing intent, demands of the publisher, and expectations of your reading audience.

Originally Posted by julianwebb

3. If there are niches that don't really need citations, what are they?

IMO, any commercially viable niche can greatly benefit by providing citations, particularly when you need to quickly establish credibility.

Originally Posted by julianwebb

I find that a lot of blogs or sites in my niche don't cite sources. (Perhaps I haven't found the real blogs or sites yet? Or are they just being "personal"?)

There is nothing wrong with not citing sources; it's just not my style. However, in heavily competitive niches which has always been my marketing arena, I have found conversion rates will soar perhaps at least partly due to providing referenced sources of well-researched articles.

Originally Posted by julianwebb

Also, like many other sites do, those in my niche use outbound links thru "anchor texts" within their content, which you say you don't prefer doing, which I also agree with. (I want them to stay on my site, not send them anywhere else.) Internal linking should be a different story, eh? Anyway, I just mentioned this because there's a lot of information that's taught by a lot of "gurus", and it all becomes really confusing. But I think I'd like to give article syndication a shot, and really learn article marketing. The model may require hard work, but I like it.

What I have always taught writers to do is make every effort to make their readers want to stay on their own website; never send them anywhere else except to make the sale.

Originally Posted by julianwebb

Others say that when you become an "expert" in your niche, citing sources may then be dropped because you're an expert now, i.e., you really know what you're saying and doing. Certainly I want to be an "expert", too. But even then, I'd still want to do everything right as much as possible.

I disagree. It has been my experience that citing recognized/authoritative sources adds credibility. Readers are increasingly becoming more savvy and sceptical even of "experts".

Originally Posted by julianwebb

I'm aware that you have your team of researchers and writers. Maybe it's also because of the sites I see in my niche, but I just don't easily "accept" that every article I post online should have citations. This idea is also influenced by others who write all their articles, like Alexa Smith, who writes 5+ articles per week. (She in 8 niches, right?)

You don't have to just "accept" that your articles should have citations. Test it yourself. Perhaps it's too much for a one-person marketer to do, but providing citation sources of topical research for your articles will get a lot more attention and credibility.

In addition to "Elements of Style" by William Strunk referenced in my previous post and the links in that post to accepted citation practices, consider also a short but excellent tutorial as found in "Writers' Market" for syndicating articles.

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nmwf 8 years ago

I always refer people to What is Plagiarism?, which does a fantastic job at simplifying a rather complicated issue.
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HN Banned 8 years ago

I googled for "Joe Robinson's Last warrior forum post" yesterday and found out what had happened. Joe is the only person on this forum who knows what my username means as I have discussed my project with him. I still think he is a decent writer even after his public apology/confession.
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On plagiarism and citing sources, references

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