Who can you trust? Internet Marketers claiming to make big money with no proof.

by WatchOut 70 replies
A certain someone who I won't name created a website back in December where they talk about earning money with adsense. Over 1 month they went from $x,xxx earnings to $xx,xxx earnings or so they claim. They of course don't show any proof of their earnings and don't share their niche sites.

Which brings me to the question..how can you trust any internet marketer who claims to be making a good sum of money but who isn't willing to show proof of their earnings? Should we just take their word for it?

This certain someone didn't have whois privacy on his domain so I was able to go to whoisology.com and use domaintools.com to find out most of their sites. I found out this person is using a fake name on their website & a fake address (they go by a different name than what appears in the WHOIS and their address is fake). I also found out they have been banned from WF in the past. I also found out that none of their websites get the kind of traffic or income they claim in their well-written articles online. Many of their domains aren't developed. They only make $xxx to a low $x,xxx at best each month from one of their websites out of 27 domains they have registered to them.

Recently this person offered a course for high $xx to teach you how to make 5 figures from adsense but they clearly don't make that much.

Anyway..I just find it annoying how many internet marketers lie. Who can you trust these days? Also why can't we discuss those who've been caught scamming others on here or making wild claims with no proof?
#main internet marketing discussion forum #big #claiming #internet #make #marketers #money #proof #trust
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  • Profile picture of the author Cosmit
    did you just figure this out? in short, dont trust anyone unless you know them personally and work with them
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  • Profile picture of the author Freebiequeen1999
    Oh it is really funny

    I have watched someone who was trying to sell a "rag to riches" plr product then go to crying about never made money on net, then asked "do survey sites pay"?? So sad...but of course a spammer jumped in to push their own survey site ...as if taking "surveys" actually provide a living...so dishonest

    Look at some of the "offers" from just months ago...notice a pattern when the "guru" leaves the building, stops supporting the "product" , stops answering questions or giving refunds...next step the domain is down

    There is a totally shabby underbelly that you will see on facebook, craigslist....people so ignorant they can't spell but they post ads for "online workers"...a chain letter of cpa signups.....

    and the worst - the "crowdfunding">> pure Ponzi

    Fact is - many of these people have no real talent and all they do is sell "opportunity" junk to other dreamers, and probably not as much as you think

    I just saw one "guru" website, a skinny guy in a tee shirt and gimmee cap....his "desk" is a white plastic folding table, like you might set up for a picnic or swap shop...and his stupid website logo is the LOGO OF THE WP THEME DESIGN NAME ..."DIVI"...HAHAH

    One reason I prefer offline is that at least (some) of the people actually work with real biz owners, provide real products, web design, graphics, seo , and such ...rather than just selling more dreams to dreamers

    Of course it is sad to see the pushers jump on any thread to sell whatever it is they like to sell...but all in all offline is more "real" IMHO
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  • Originally Posted by WatchOut View Post

    This certain someone didn't have whois privacy on his domain so I was able to go to whoisology.com and use domaintools.com to find out most of their sites
    I found out this person is using a fake name on their website & a fake address (they go by a different name than what appears in the WHOIS and their address is fake).
    I also found out they have been banned from WF in the past. I also found out that none of their websites get the kind of traffic or income they claim in their well-written articles online.
    Many of their domains aren't developed. They only make to a low ,xxx at best each month from one of their websites out of 27 domains they have registered to them.
    Recently this person offered a course for high to teach you how to make 5 figures from adsense but they clearly don't make that much.

    You certainly spend allot of time on this.

    I wonder if you directed your energy on setting up a real business providing a quality product or service, is it possible that you then could be making enough money, so that you wouldnt have to be looking at adsense as your revenue model?
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    • Profile picture of the author Freebiequeen1999
      Originally Posted by stoltingmediagroup View Post

      You certainly spend allot of time on this.

      I wonder if you directed your energy on setting up a real business providing a quality product or service, is it possible that you then could be making enough money, so that you wouldnt have to be looking at adsense as your revenue model?
      Nice philosophy however how many of the stuff being pushed around is "real business"
      Not much that I see
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      • Profile picture of the author NyNyDanDan
        There are many, many legit IM authorities out there who pride themselves on offering quality products on the various aspects of start and growing an info business. Without naming names you've got EP, RS, RD, FK, MB and the list goes on. Also, I've connected with many IMers right here on WF who fly under the radar - although they might not have the marquee name - offer great products and advice. I would say you need to choose who you will follow based on the "know, like, trust" paradigm. Subscribe to their list, follow them for some chunk of time and determine if you feel comfortable with emails and stuff they market to you.
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    • Profile picture of the author WatchOut
      Originally Posted by stoltingmediagroup View Post

      You certainly spend allot of time on this.

      I wonder if you directed your energy on setting up a real business providing a quality product or service, is it possible that you then could be making enough money, so that you wouldnt have to be looking at adsense as your revenue model?
      Some websites do best with adsense ads.
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      • Originally Posted by WatchOut View Post

        Some websites do best with adsense ads.

        Some. Not many.

        I think most newbies have a misconception of reality when it comes to the enormous amount of volume of traffic one needs to drive to a site, for it to make just $100 month. Maybe start by researching "that".

        It will be enlightening.
        Signature
        Arnold Stolting - Stolting Media Group
        "I LOVE The Song! The Vibe Is Positive And Firm!" - Kymani Marley. (Son of Bob Marley)
        "Keep Up The Good Work!" Tony Lindsay - Lead Vocalist, Carlos Santana.

        "Very High Quality!" Jeremy Harding - Manager / Producer. Sean Paul.
        "They Are FANTASTIC!" - Willie Crawford.

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        • Profile picture of the author WatchOut
          Originally Posted by stoltingmediagroup View Post

          Some. Not many.

          I think most newbies have a misconception of reality when it comes to the enormous amount of volume of traffic one needs to drive to a site, for it to make just $100 month. Maybe start by researching "that".

          It will be enlightening.
          I most likely do have a misconception. There is just so much to learn. I don't even know where to begin but it hurts when you think you found someone who knows what they're talking about only to find out they're lying.
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    • Profile picture of the author nmwf
      Originally Posted by stoltingmediagroup View Post

      You certainly spend allot of time on this.
      As s/he should have! Research is required in IM. Research is required before making any type of investment. So I give kudos to the OP for having the common sense to verify the claims of this person.

      Why would anyone question that?!?!?!

      Why?
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      • Originally Posted by nmwf View Post

        As s/he should have! Research is required in IM. Research is required before making any type of investment. So I give kudos to the OP for having the common sense to verify the claims of this person.

        Why would anyone question that?!?!?!

        Why?
        I support researching a vendor / marketer before making a big purchase.
        OP's time and energy might however be better spent doing something productive as opposed to chasing down a questionable marketer and researching and investigating to the point of said marketers last bowel movement.
        Signature
        Arnold Stolting - Stolting Media Group
        "I LOVE The Song! The Vibe Is Positive And Firm!" - Kymani Marley. (Son of Bob Marley)
        "Keep Up The Good Work!" Tony Lindsay - Lead Vocalist, Carlos Santana.

        "Very High Quality!" Jeremy Harding - Manager / Producer. Sean Paul.
        "They Are FANTASTIC!" - Willie Crawford.

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        • Profile picture of the author nmwf
          Originally Posted by stoltingmediagroup View Post

          I support researching a vendor / marketer before making a big purchase.
          OP's time and energy might however be better spent doing something productive as opposed to chasing down a questionable marketer and researching and investigating to the point of said marketers last bowel movement.
          But said bowel hunt saved the OP from being scammed.

          Said bowel hunt also alerted others to the value behind such bowel hunt.

          Said bowel hunt was a worthy pursuit whether you approve of it or not.
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  • Profile picture of the author XponentSYS
    Well done on the "PI work"!

    Watch what people DO rather than what they "claim" to do and you'll start to get a feel for who the real players are. After awhile, you'll be able to spot the "wanna bes" quickly. I know that's sort of vague but trust me.

    This reminds me of a campaign I did awhile back promoting my coaching packages - I actually had people "opt in" to get a copy of my tax return - sensitive information such as my SSN redacted of course!
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  • Profile picture of the author Excellance
    That's some pretty good detective work right there. Well people will do things that aren't ethical to make money I suppose. It is the internet afterall, there aren't many authorities from preventing that from happening. The only thing that we can do I suppose is either reveal them or focus on bettering ourselves. Also very good detective work, you could start an online detective agency I'd think haha.
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  • Profile picture of the author paolo83
    Some good stuff has already been mentioned above that said when it comes down to make money online you should treat your efforts just as if you would be launching an offline business.

    This shift in perception will allow you to see this online stuff under a different light altogether.

    Receiving money is a consequence of doing specific tasks that will ultimately close you the sales.

    Bottom line there is only one way to make money : Create VALUE And TRUST.

    You are in business with people and for people , your products and services are only a way to bridge the gap between what you stand for and what your potential customers stand for.

    In short if you are in business you should only trust yourself first and foremost.

    If you don't believe in yourself first, who will support you and your company?
    If you don't believe in your product and services first, who will trust you?
    If you don't know what you stand for and why you are putting so much effort into doing something, who will connect with your message?

    Once you have a clear vision of what you will accomplish, then you can put your message out there and start connecting with real people who truly love what they are doing online and stand behind thir products.
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  • Profile picture of the author Randall Magwood
    Originally Posted by WatchOut View Post

    Who can you trust these days?
    I have no idea. I keep going back and forth about the best religion to join.

    For you though, trust yourself. You seem like a renegade person - so throw yourself into the woods and figure this thing out yourself. I think that's the real answer you're looking for.
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  • Profile picture of the author ncmedia
    Holding back.... so ... many.. . .. comments.. ... . because I dunwannagetbanned...

    Flames expected but 99% do and have been doing this - for years. I still remember the first fawker that got me with the alias stuff when I was green to this - remember 'MarkWarren'? Mind you the people behind that did it big, but pretty much 99% or those here vying for your eyeballs - want to monetize you in some way and claim to have made it when they had a lil' spike if that.

    I wouldn't trust literally ANYONE re giving them money to teach me how to make money or some 'method'. Do enough on your own and you can see through the BS like that scene putting on/off the advertising sunglasses. Trust yourself as others stated, and expect that those looking for ways to make money are going to be surrounded by others looking to take it from them. Sig clicks on posts/threads are the driving force of why people create content on this forum sans noobie q's. That's a lot of fluff for the sake of some eyeballs to some wso sig on some adsense empire builder from a nobody hahaha.

    /rant

    I kinda commend the detective work. Back when I got taken by the MarkWarren system, I actually reverse engineered the whole fukn thing in a few nights vs trying his 'methods'. My quick research led me to many 'aha!' moments, then I was dangerous, launching products like crack until some worked.

    Only thing I'd be doing re buying any apparently 'successful IM guru' stuff or lists I'd be on (ewww picturing being on guru's lists again like back in the day hahaha yukky spammers of the worst kind, but good to learn from quick) would be to reverse engineer it AND I'd be wanting some damn proof that you've 'made it' (in which case I'd be like - why the fawk are you on some forum trying to make a lil' more, you're rich bro, go expand your biz why you hunting for noobs on wafo?!).

    .02.5

    EDIT: YOu know what grinds my gears even worse though? People posing as fake persona's on forums as women - THIS ONE INCLUDED - especially young, apparently pretty, know it all females with very generic names and no real business to promote/mention yet they have all your answers and post like they've been here for years (because they have, and they are dudes). Some have many accounts just to pad their activity and wso's/authority. THAT is what I'd recommend you watch out for - the social conditioning is subtle but effective on big communities like this, WAHM, blackhat forums, down to the whitest vanilla forums.

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  • Profile picture of the author mark healy
    Yes this is a big problem in the community however there are a few things you can do. Check testimonials from others who have got results from what they teach. What google wealth do they have ? What reputation do they have online ?
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  • Profile picture of the author engima
    Here is the proof:


    Here is the method:
    https://www.warriorforum.com/ad-netw...lot-today.html

    So what excuses do you have now not to succeed with Adsense?
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  • Profile picture of the author Ben West
    If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

    If someone is stating you can earn $xxxx.xx with their guide, then they are selling a dream, not a guide. Don't buy into dreams.

    Anyone still making good money from something is not going to sell their secrets. Not to mention, their are no secrets these days. Everything you need to know is out there already. Learn it and work hard. That is the only secret to success.

    With that said there are still plenty of good guides out there worth buying. But they are hard to find as you will have to sort through a tonne of trash first.
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  • Profile picture of the author MarcoYandun
    Originally Posted by WatchOut View Post


    This certain someone didn't have whois privacy on his domain so I was able to go to whoisology.com and use domaintools.com to find out most of their sites. I found out this person is using a fake name on their website & a fake address (they go by a different name than what appears in the WHOIS and their address is fake). I also found out they have been banned from WF in the past. I also found out that none of their websites get the kind of traffic or income they claim in their well-written articles online. Many of their domains aren't developed. They only make to a low ,xxx at best each month from one of their websites out of 27 domains they have registered to them.
    Doing your task investigating that guy is the right path to take. You should do that with any mentor you would like to trust. I wrote an article in the address below you may be interested about taking care when choosing your mentor. You have given me some additional ideas to complement the list in that article if you do not mind

    Good luck
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  • Typical response from a bitter person who follows others around just to negatively reply to all their posts or opinions. Then puts them on their ignore list. #Sad
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    Arnold Stolting - Stolting Media Group
    "I LOVE The Song! The Vibe Is Positive And Firm!" - Kymani Marley. (Son of Bob Marley)
    "Keep Up The Good Work!" Tony Lindsay - Lead Vocalist, Carlos Santana.

    "Very High Quality!" Jeremy Harding - Manager / Producer. Sean Paul.
    "They Are FANTASTIC!" - Willie Crawford.

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  • Profile picture of the author Doug9
    Originally Posted by WatchOut View Post

    I also found out that none of their websites get the kind of traffic or income they claim in their well-written articles online. Many of their domains aren't developed. They only make xxx to a low x,xxx at best each month from one of their websites out of 27 domains they have registered to them.
    Friend, you are barking up the wrong tree. If you could really find out information like that on whoever you want, you could earn a lot of money with that service.
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  • Profile picture of the author Write Now
    Due diligence is a necessity in the IM world. The anonymity of the internet brings out the bad in some people.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    Of course there is absolutely no way for you to know any of this.

    In other words you do NOT know how much money he/she is making, how many sites they have, etc. There is NO way for you to get this information in a reliable way and ensure you have it all without them sharing their passwords, bank account info, etc. with you.

    So your accusation could be totally baseless which is ironic coming from someone complaining about all the lying going on.

    Note that before anyone says I'm in bed with the scammers or whatever by defending this unknown person, you'd be wise to read my posts that are 100% against any unethical, immoral, or illegal behavior of any kind.

    Mark

    Originally Posted by WatchOut View Post

    A certain someone who I won't name created a website back in December where they talk about earning money with adsense. Over 1 month they went from ,xxx earnings to ,xxx earnings or so they claim. They of course don't show any proof of their earnings and don't share their niche sites.

    Which brings me to the question..how can you trust any internet marketer who claims to be making a good sum of money but who isn't willing to show proof of their earnings? Should we just take their word for it?

    This certain someone didn't have whois privacy on his domain so I was able to go to whoisology.com and use domaintools.com to find out most of their sites. I found out this person is using a fake name on their website & a fake address (they go by a different name than what appears in the WHOIS and their address is fake). I also found out they have been banned from WF in the past. I also found out that none of their websites get the kind of traffic or income they claim in their well-written articles online. Many of their domains aren't developed. They only make to a low ,xxx at best each month from one of their websites out of 27 domains they have registered to them.

    Recently this person offered a course for high to teach you how to make 5 figures from adsense but they clearly don't make that much.

    Anyway..I just find it annoying how many internet marketers lie. Who can you trust these days? Also why can't we discuss those who've been caught scamming others on here or making wild claims with no proof?
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    • Profile picture of the author Devilfish168
      when you post your proof " some will claim photoshop " or " feel curious really ?? "

      when you didn't post your proof " some feel suspicious "


      This is how I feel.
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  • Profile picture of the author Janice Sperry
    He could have one more site that you did not find (if you even found some of his in the first place).

    He could really be making the kind of money he bragged about and maybe not.

    Don't believe income claims
    Don't believe income "proof".
    Even if income claims are true it does not mean you can duplicate it.

    You say, "I just find it annoying how many internet marketers lie". Actually, the successful ones that you want to learn from do not have to lie. They also follow ethical and legal matters so they will not jeopardize their business. It is not hard to find them if you quit looking for 1) get rich quick, 2) get rich fast or 3) get rich easy.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Anyone that makes money claims online or offline is either a liar or an idiot.
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  • Profile picture of the author Angshuman Dutta
    Originally Posted by WatchOut View Post

    Anyway..I just find it annoying how many internet marketers lie. Who can you trust these days? Also why can't we discuss those who've been caught scamming others on here or making wild claims with no proof?
    You know what....IMers don't lie (most of the times). They just tell you what you want to hear!!

    If you are looking for income proof you are paving the way for scammers to show you doctored screenshots. Tell me how many people are really interested in having a business that demands their sweat and blood?

    Not many!!

    Most suffer from the "shiny object " syndrome and spend most of the time hopping from one idea to another without ever taking any real action. Some do start out well but get demotivated easily and throw in the towel when they hit a roadblock.

    So, it's necessarily about what YOU are capable of doing and how much YOU are willing to put in.

    BTW, the FTC isn't very fond of the earnings proof thingy and all major platforms including the WSO section of this forum discourage it.

    So, before you point your finger know the rules.

    Also, I personally wouldn't put my money on a program just because it shows earnings proof. I'd rather shy away from those. If I get back a genuine method I'm happy because I know I can work on it and even tweak it a bit to make it work big time. But then....not everyone wants to "learn" the system - many just want to know how succesful has someone been with a method and use it as a metric to judge the workability of a system!

    Few consider the fact that the same system works differently for different people. At the end of the day it all boils down to what YOU are doing!!
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    • Profile picture of the author @tjr
      Originally Posted by Angshuman Dutta View Post

      You know what....IMers don't lie (most of the times). They just tell you what you want to hear!!
      I tell people unicorns exist. It's what they want to hear. Unfortunately, it is also a lie. Welcome to the world.
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    • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Angshuman Dutta View Post

      You know what....IMers don't lie (most of the times). They just tell you what you want to hear!!
      If they tell you what you want to hear, but it's not the truth, then they are lying.

      I would love to have someone tell me that I look like George Clooney. If someone ever told me that I did, they'd be lying.

      This ain't rocket science.

      Cheers. - Frank

      P.S. If they told me that I looked like Brad Pitt, that would be an entirely different matter.
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  • Profile picture of the author Marked09
    I'm not really a fan of images showing big numbers. If you will notice the real big name in the internet marketing doesn't use these proofs.

    People already know that they know what they're doing. Just for example Frank Kern, have you seen this guy posts his earnings?

    But if you're to claim something big, make sure you can back it up with your work and social proofs not coming from you.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lurk
    It really is a catch 22. On the one hand you want to learn and on the other hand you dont know these people from a "can of paint".

    Unless you can afford a P.I. then you just have to lay in bed with some of these "coaches" and hope that the information they provide is enough to get you to the next level. There is no definitive answer. It is trial and error. Even people with credibility are duping the masses so just use your gut.
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  • Profile picture of the author melissadiazpr
    To be honest, whenever I make money with my business, I usually upload an income proof video of course with the disclaimer that "Results are not typical". To be quite honest, I could care less what someone else makes since it's really not relevant to my bank account. Before joining any business, I would do my research to see if it's legit, and join the person who provides the most value. Their earnings have no affect on me because every marketer is created different. Not everyone treats their business like a business. Not everyone is going to get the same results. In my opinion, don't worry about what other people are earning. If you don't know who to trust and are thinking of joining any program, do you research. There is never a guarantee of income for marketers unless they are treating their business like a business and not a hobby
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert999
    Originally Posted by WatchOut View Post

    A certain someone who I won't name created a website back in December where they talk about earning money with adsense. Over 1 month they went from ,xxx earnings to ,xxx earnings or so they claim. They of course don't show any proof of their earnings and don't share their niche sites.

    Which brings me to the question..how can you trust any internet marketer who claims to be making a good sum of money but who isn't willing to show proof of their earnings? Should we just take their word for it?

    This certain someone didn't have whois privacy on his domain so I was able to go to whoisology.com and use domaintools.com to find out most of their sites. I found out this person is using a fake name on their website & a fake address (they go by a different name than what appears in the WHOIS and their address is fake). I also found out they have been banned from WF in the past. I also found out that none of their websites get the kind of traffic or income they claim in their well-written articles online. Many of their domains aren't developed. They only make to a low ,xxx at best each month from one of their websites out of 27 domains they have registered to them.

    Recently this person offered a course for high to teach you how to make 5 figures from adsense but they clearly don't make that much.

    Anyway..I just find it annoying how many internet marketers lie. Who can you trust these days? Also why can't we discuss those who've been caught scamming others on here or making wild claims with no proof?
    To make money online you should try to learn everything and every step from legit online marketers. Most of them have blogs where they teach almost everything in detail, for free. Try to develop the habit of reading and doing research. Everyone has learned from this. No software can make you rich quickly.
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  • Profile picture of the author agmccall
    It is against adsense terms of service to disclose your earnings anywhere to anyone

    al
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    Making money is art and working is art and good business is the best art. ~Andy Warhol~

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  • Profile picture of the author aizaku
    I.M. is littered with scammers. It's up to you to do your due diligence and research their reputation. If any body got scammed, then Google will reveal it.

    Just search.

    When i read your post that quote from game of thrones popped into mind: "you're either the butcher of the meat"

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  • Hey WatchOut

    Do not trust those who have no reputation and testimonials traceable online are scams!
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    Moderators Note: Affiliate links are not allowed as signatures.

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    • Profile picture of the author WatchOut
      Originally Posted by Excellance View Post

      That's some pretty good detective work right there. Well people will do things that aren't ethical to make money I suppose. It is the internet afterall, there aren't many authorities from preventing that from happening. The only thing that we can do I suppose is either reveal them or focus on bettering ourselves. Also very good detective work, you could start an online detective agency I'd think haha.
      I've thought about doing something like that but it would take up too much of my time and would drive me crazy.


      Originally Posted by stoltingmediagroup View Post

      I support researching a vendor / marketer before making a big purchase.
      OP's time and energy might however be better spent doing something productive as opposed to chasing down a questionable marketer and researching and investigating to the point of said marketers last bowel movement.
      Maybe you should focus on how you spend your time instead of being worried with how I spend mine?



      Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

      Of course there is absolutely no way for you to know any of this.

      In other words you do NOT know how much money he/she is making, how many sites they have, etc. There is NO way for you to get this information in a reliable way and ensure you have it all without them sharing their passwords, bank account info, etc. with you.

      So your accusation could be totally baseless which is ironic coming from someone complaining about all the lying going on.

      Note that before anyone says I'm in bed with the scammers or whatever by defending this unknown person, you'd be wise to read my posts that are 100% against any unethical, immoral, or illegal behavior of any kind.

      Mark
      You can estimate how much they're making by how much traffic their site gets...
      You can also search for whois registry info and find their many sites (if they don't use whois protection from the very beginning).


      Originally Posted by Janice Sperry View Post

      He could have one more site that you did not find (if you even found some of his in the first place).

      He could really be making the kind of money he bragged about and maybe not.

      Don't believe income claims
      Don't believe income "proof".
      Even if income claims are true it does not mean you can duplicate it.

      You say, "I just find it annoying how many internet marketers lie". Actually, the successful ones that you want to learn from do not have to lie. They also follow ethical and legal matters so they will not jeopardize their business. It is not hard to find them if you quit looking for 1) get rich quick, 2) get rich fast or 3) get rich easy.

      He could have other sites under another false name & address or be using whois protection on big-time money making adsense sites, but considering all the sites I found under his name/address/etc that line up with the posts on his blog I doubt he is. He's also been banned from WF before but has a new name now which he promotes his adsense site in his About Me signature under.
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      • Originally Posted by WatchOut View Post

        Maybe you should focus on how you spend your time instead of being worried with how I spend mine?
        I do focus on how I spend my time. I hang out here responding to threads, because over the last 20 years, I built a business that earns income while I'm writing this.

        Someday, you'll look back and you might realize that you could have been more productive, (and a little nicer to those who try to offer you their experience and advice for FREE, (as harsh as some may sound depending on the person,)
        and you might say: "hmmm, I guess he was right, maybe I should have spent my time building a business and marketing, instead of wasting time tracking down details on all marketers that may be lying.".
        Signature
        Arnold Stolting - Stolting Media Group
        "I LOVE The Song! The Vibe Is Positive And Firm!" - Kymani Marley. (Son of Bob Marley)
        "Keep Up The Good Work!" Tony Lindsay - Lead Vocalist, Carlos Santana.

        "Very High Quality!" Jeremy Harding - Manager / Producer. Sean Paul.
        "They Are FANTASTIC!" - Willie Crawford.

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  • Profile picture of the author samng
    I have learnt that when it is too good to be true, it is. There are no short cuts in internet marketing.

    If you believe all the hype, it just disappoints you big time.
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  • Profile picture of the author maxweb
    Everyone is attracted by what they wanna hear. Don't rely on big money talking people unless they have testimonials, reputation or an actual proof of their personal earnings. Best of luck
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    Find out how to earn money online !!!
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  • Look at other things, not just income earnings:

    1) Reputation. That's there reputation in the industry, do people know them
    2) Traffic stats - If a website is getting tens of thousands of views every month, chances are they are making great money
    3) Income proof - Ask them for income proof, if they can't provide it, chances are they are scamming people
    Signature

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  • Profile picture of the author ChrisNosal
    Banned
    A good marketer knows value is in content.

    If they do their job they'll give you free advice you can go out and use to make you want their products.

    If they give you enough info to make the decision for yourself, instead of using hype to "sell" you, you know they care, and they're doing what they need to for you to be successful, because that's more important to them than selling.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sarevok
    So proof comes down to how pretty your screenshots are?

    That's kinda like believing someone based upon whether or not they're a fancy artist.

    Let me tell you there player...

    Screen shots don't mean a damn thing.

    (Even legit earnings... Because who knows what the real profit was or how they really obtained those goals).

    To answer your question...

    Trust people only as far as you can throw them.

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  • Profile picture of the author kencalhn
    be deeply skeptical of all IM content...merely Watch and Learn from what topsellers do, and use similar methods...
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  • Profile picture of the author ChrisNosal
    Banned
    You trust whoever actually focuses on giving advice, helping you, and showing their quality up front for FREE.

    You trust the person who PROVES you can trust them.

    You trust the person who isn't just trying to offer you information after you pay them.
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    • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
      Banned
      Originally Posted by ChrisNosal View Post

      You trust whoever actually focuses on giving advice, helping you, and showing their quality up front for FREE.
      This is the oldest trick in the book. Haven't you ever heard of a loss-leader? This is the same concept only taken to a manipulative extreme.

      There is nothing of value in life that is totally free. There is always a gimmick. You'tre not dealing with Franciscan monks. These are marketers, salesmen, plain and simple.

      Cheers. - Frank
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      • Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

        This is the oldest trick in the book. Haven't you ever heard of a loss-leader? This is the same concept only taken to a manipulative extreme. There is nothing of value in life that is totally free. There is always a gimmick. You'tre not dealing with Franciscan monks. These are marketers, salesmen, plain and simple. Cheers. - Frank
        Those salesmen are so easy to spot though, when you know what to look for.
        Mentors for money who hang out here all day giving free advice for sig file exposure, I get that.
        But there are also folks who are not in the "business" of giving marketing advice (mentoring) for money.
        Thus may have no real ulterior motive to give some free advice up front.
        Signature
        Arnold Stolting - Stolting Media Group
        "I LOVE The Song! The Vibe Is Positive And Firm!" - Kymani Marley. (Son of Bob Marley)
        "Keep Up The Good Work!" Tony Lindsay - Lead Vocalist, Carlos Santana.

        "Very High Quality!" Jeremy Harding - Manager / Producer. Sean Paul.
        "They Are FANTASTIC!" - Willie Crawford.

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        • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
          Banned
          Originally Posted by stoltingmediagroup View Post

          Those salesmen are so easy to spot though, when you know what to look for.
          Mentors for money who hang out here all day giving free advice for sg file exposure, I get that. But there are also folks who are not in the "business" of giving marketing advice (mentoring) for money. Thus may have no real ulterior motive to give some free advice up front.
          Very few and far between. The longer you live and are exposed to IM, the more you will see that the altruistic vision that you hold is based on the way that you might operate, but you can't knowingly prescribe it to others.

          Unfortunately, that's just not how the real world works. Everyone is selling something. You may not pay them now, but to get the whole loaf, you surely will, sooner or later. Half a loaf ain't worth squat. That's why it's free. :-) You know what they say. "You can pay me now, or you can pay me, later." Either way - you are going to pay.

          Cheers. - Frank
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      • Profile picture of the author ChrisNosal
        Banned
        Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

        There is nothing of value in life that is totally free. There is always a gimmick. You'tre not dealing with Franciscan monks. These are marketers, salesmen, plain and simple.
        If something is given of value free, even if something else is offered for money, the thing given itself is still free.

        Money itself is an idea. Saying, "here's some advice, I've got more in my advanced programs" is hardly a gimmick - you're not trying to get someone to buy anything, you're being totally transparent and honest, and you're focusing on giving value.

        People are happy to pay for value when they know you care and want to help them - everyone needs to support themselves.

        How are people being mislead when there is no lying or hiding anything whatsoever?
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        • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
          Banned
          Originally Posted by ChrisNosal View Post

          If something is given of value free, even if something else is offered for money, the thing given itself is still free.

          Money itself is an idea. Saying, "here's some advice, I've got more in my advanced programs" is hardly a gimmick - you're not trying to get someone to buy anything, you're being totally transparent and honest, and you're focusing on giving value.

          People are happy to pay for value when they know you care and want to help them - everyone needs to support themselves.

          How are people being mislead when there is no lying or hiding anything whatsoever?
          It's simple psychology, sir. Your response only proves that it works on most people and that is what they hope for.

          If you don't get the fact that you will pay in the end for what you got for free in the beginning, I simply don't know what to tell you. You are falling for one of the oldest sales ploys in the history of commerce. You are a marketer's dream come true. :-)

          Cheers. - Frank

          P.S. I'm not inferring they are doing anything dishonest or unethical. This is a common sales tactic that is based on the desire to get 'something of 'perceived' value for nothing. You could probably find a prehistoric cave drawing touting such an offer. That said, there is nothing wrong with understanding the motivation for employing such tactics (they work) and choosing to not fall for them. That's how I keep my money in my pocket rather than putting it in theirs.
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    • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
      Originally Posted by ChrisNosal View Post

      You trust whoever actually focuses on giving advice, helping you, and showing their quality up front for FREE.

      You trust the person who PROVES you can trust them.

      You trust the person who isn't just trying to offer you information after you pay them.
      HMmm you might like to read this quote I have in my swipe file I get out and read every now and again

      You *cannot* master marketing or anything else by treating it like a giant pick-and-choose buffet.

      You need to learn to think like ONE person who you can relate to, to the point where that person becomes your alter-ego. You burn their moves into your muscle memory. Eventually you know *exactly* how they would handle almost any situation. That's how true mentoring works.

      someone whose strategies, approach and way of thinking you adopt - someone you respect and regard as your primary teacher. Someone whose answers you accept instead of constantly searching for other points of view.

      That, by the way, never happens when you take the cheap route and just skim the free stuff. You only achieve mastery when you pick a single path and GO DEEP. Perry Marshall
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Are you saying everything on the internet isn't legit?
    Signature
    Be your best self. - Darryl Philbin
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    • Profile picture of the author @tjr
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      Are you saying everything on the internet isn't legit?
      Naaaaaaw. That's silly talk.
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  • Profile picture of the author globalexperts
    If it's too good to be true, then just drop it!
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  • Profile picture of the author Marked09
    This thread has a lot of replies, just to add on the income proofs. A lot of marketers can show you that they are earning 5 - 7 figure per month but it is also possible that they spending more than what they've earned.

    A marketer can show you a 10k income proof but the total expense of running the business is 9.9k so that means he's just earning 100k in reality.

    Don't be fooled by those income proofs.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
    I've been involved in online business since 2002/3 and in that time, I've only ever met 1 person making any decent money.

    99% of the people 'trying to make it' are failures.

    The other 1% are selling big bags of hope to the other 99%.

    The quickest way to make money in this game is providing services, not selling $7 ebooks.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    Originally Posted by WatchOut View Post

    ......Anyway..I just find it annoying how many internet marketers lie. Who can you trust these days? Also why can't we discuss those who've been caught scamming others on here or making wild claims with no proof?
    As one of the many former moderators of this place I can answer this question.

    It's simply a matter of fairness.

    Imagine a forum where anyone could make a false accusation against you and then it's allowed to stay here? That forum wouldn't last very long.

    Another thing to consider is that sometimes it's not a matter of one person scamming another. I can't tell you how many times I got involved with two parties who had a simple misunderstanding and it was ultimately resolved.

    Sometimes it's a language issue. Sometimes it's one person not receiving an e-mail. Sometimes it's one person expecting a response in a few hours when the other person went to asleep on the other side of the world.

    There's also some subjectivity at work here too. What you might think are "wild claims", another might think is completely reasonable. If the forum allowed people to name and shame people, they would need to hire a whole slew of new moderators (and probably legal counsel) to mitigate the problems that would arise.

    This is one of those things that sounds good in theory, but in real-life application it's just not practical, nor is it fair to the person being accused.

    There is a process in this forum, however, that everyone should be aware of. If you see someone breaking the rules or actually ripping someone off AND you have proof of this (not your gut feeling or intuition), then use the report post icon that's underneath the person's name and report it to the moderators.

    RoD
    Signature
    "Your personal philosophy is the greatest determining factor in how your life works out."
    - Jim Rohn
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    • Originally Posted by Rod Cortez View Post

      Sometimes it's a language issue. Sometimes it's one person not receiving an e-mail. Sometimes it's one person expecting a response in a few hours when the other person went to asleep on the other side of the world.
      And even though these are somewhat legit frustrations, they do not need to be voiced in the way that many do.

      What's worse though, and this is for those who like to complain allot that ALL marketers must be lying etc....

      In my opinion,
      If YOU didn't click their "buy now" button,
      and never paid to have access to the product in order to give it a fair shot,
      then you have NO RIGHT to complain, and accuse a vendor of being a scammer.

      Why, because their sales page or internet presence is over hyped? or because "others" are saying stuff?

      How quiet this forum (or the web in general) would be,
      if the "law" was that you had to "buy" something first,
      before you could make a negative statement about a marketer or company.
      Signature
      Arnold Stolting - Stolting Media Group
      "I LOVE The Song! The Vibe Is Positive And Firm!" - Kymani Marley. (Son of Bob Marley)
      "Keep Up The Good Work!" Tony Lindsay - Lead Vocalist, Carlos Santana.

      "Very High Quality!" Jeremy Harding - Manager / Producer. Sean Paul.
      "They Are FANTASTIC!" - Willie Crawford.

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      • Profile picture of the author djtrillian
        I have been on lots of lists for many years and have seen thousands of offers of all types, from the most embarassing cheeseball rubbish to the most professional and earnest.

        The usual old "here's a live screenshot to 'proove' I actually make x amount" is so easily either faked or just 'spun' as alluded to before. You might have a campaign that grosses 10K in sales but ended up costing 9K in advertising.

        The indisputable logic when it comes to coaching is this: If someone has proven they are already wealthy and they are certain they can teach you to make money, absolutely certain as some of them claim. Then I'd love to see one of them really put their money where their mouth is and offer to teach you on a contingency fee basis. (and for sake of simplicity lets say an agreed fixed fee). Lawyers do this when they feel certain they can win a settlement, so if an IM coach is so certain they can get you to 2K or 5K or 10K a month in 3 months or whatever, then it kinda begs the question as to why they want 2K up front?

        Sure, I realise some people won't follow directions or put in the effort but the solution to that is simple, if they take on a student and that student doesn't hold up their end they get dropped in the first week (or something to that effect).

        Anyway, just thinking out loud.

        What really gets my hackles up is when a 'guru' will start off boasting about much money they have made in the last three years and then say "so I am teaching this because I just looooooove to teach". Or "I just want to 'give something back' " ....so it's 'only' $497.00 !!! Um no, you might 'loooooove' to go ski in the Alps but you don't expect to get paid for doing what you love, you do it for free (or god forbid even spend money to do it) because you enjoy it... see how that works :-)

        -rant over...
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        • Profile picture of the author Jonathan 2.0
          I think it's important not to become too "cynical." Sure, there are some "scamsters" in the IM World, however there are also some legitimate Teachers.
          Signature
          "Each problem has hidden in it an opportunity so powerful that it literally dwarfs the problem. The greatest success stories were created by people who recognized a problem and turned it into an opportunity."―Joseph Sugarman
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          • Profile picture of the author djtrillian
            Originally Posted by Jonathan 2.0 View Post

            I think it's important not to become too "cynical." Sure, there are some "scamsters" in the IM World, however there are also some legitimate Teachers.
            Obsolutely. I can think of a few straight away. They usually do consulting for businesses and have been for a number of years. There are also very legit marketers that have created good products etc. etc.
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            • Profile picture of the author vanillawoods
              The thing about marketing is this:

              Online marketing is no different than real world marketing. When you show something legitimately to another, that helps their business by providing good quality information, then you will get sales all day long.

              Since the Internet is relatively new, marketers tend to hide behind the screen and employ smoke and mirrors tactics they see everybody else doing.

              This will change however.

              Everybody is tired of this.

              The age of legitimate marketing is here, and shall take shape soon.
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  • Profile picture of the author MayWJans
    Its really hard to makes heads or tails these days of who's claims to believe. Everybody pushing a product claims to be a guru on some level. From my experience I would say most marketers claiming huge annual incomes are actually making far less. Somewhere in the 25-50% of what they claim. The old adage reigns supreme...Fake it till ya make it
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    Whatever income claims a marketer makes, he still has to add a disclaimer
    that he cannot promise you that you will do the same. So the income
    claims should not be the primary motivator to get a product. Of course
    you want to know that the system works, and hence the income claims
    come as "proof", but the system still has to be worked by someone and
    everyone doesn't get the same results.

    A marketer who chooses to lie would soon find that his own conscience
    catches up on him. And people who lie hate to be lied to. Ever noticed?

    -Ray Edwards
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    The most powerful and concentrated copywriting training online today bar none! Let a VETERAN Copywriter and Teacher get your skills up to speed in little time.
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  • Profile picture of the author Springy
    The best things I learned so far is don't follow gurus and all "professionals" follow your hear test new things! That's the best thing you can do. Don't follow like a ship, be different try new things even if for some maybe won't work. Maybe they will for your.

    Testing is the best thing that you can do. Following others is like copying others what they do, but being unique is something else, better, different and you'll learn by making mistakes. I'm still learning, but I'm trying new approaches even if they are weird... That may work

    Good luck
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