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Wanted: Internet Marketing Devil's Advocates Please

by The Niche Man
22 replies
Recently I wrote a guest blog post for a member site concerning the terms “The Money is in The List” vs. The Money is in The Niche. I fell in the “Money is in The Niche” camp (shocker right).

Needless to say I got a few negative comments, some questioning my sanity and a couple bordering on hate mail. That’s O.K, I’m a Big Boy I can take it (Some 5 year old girls in my 'old neighborhood' were tougher).

Here’s the issue:

I’m scheduled to speak at a small business mixer and this will be my subject. So, I’m inviting Warriors to poke holes in my theory. It would help because this is a tough group I’ll be speaking to at the mixer (whose never heard this theory), a few list brokers and managers even included.

So which is more accurate ...

The Money is in The List vs. The Money is in the Niche?

I’d be interested in hearing from those in “The Money is in the List" camp.
Thanks for your input.
#advocates #devil #devils #internet #marketing #wanted
  • Profile picture of the author SteveSki
    Sorry but I'm in your camp.

    If the money was in the list then all you need is the white pages of the phone book. Or their email addresses. Far better to target a niche and follow up (build a relationship) than chase after people who have no interest in what you have to offer.
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  • Profile picture of the author Synnuh
    Initially, for research purposes, the money is in the niche. Not everybody in the niche is money, though.

    You've gotta segment the niche to find the buyers. That's where you need a list.

    Dunno if that's really much help lol, just re-read it
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  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
    Sorry - can't answer you then as I've always found the money is in the niche.

    To me, it's something to think about....to others, it's an argument they need to win. I'm not sure the argument is clear cut. You choose a niche, you build a list....the viability of the list depends on the niche.....but routinely selling to the niche relies on the list.

    Confused much? My work here is done

    kay
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  • Profile picture of the author Tom Addams
    Tough room!

    I actually side with you on the issue, but I'll forget what I know about niche marketing for a moment, and give you a couple of arguments in favour of the list.

    #1 Stability

    A digital entrepreneur, unlike a doctor or a lawyer, who can usually rely on a predetermined monthly salary, must ensure the money keeps flowing in. In it's simplest form, it boils down to this: the combination of a monetized platform and stable traffic to that platform. The platform (the landing page, the website, the squeeze) is not going anywhere. But what about traffic? Will Google release an unfriendly update? Will Facebook delete your 500K fan page? Question for you: can you rely on traffic? The only way to rely on traffic is to own your own pool of traffic; a pool that cannot be taken away from you. The list. Stability.

    #2 Trust

    If I walk up to you in a bar and ask you to buy a membership to one of my sites, what will you do? I can imagine a few different ways it could play out. I'll tell you what you won't do, though. You won't open up your Iphone and go and buy a membership. But what if you know me? What if I'm your friend? What if you trust me? The chances of you buying a membership have just shot up.

    I will say, though:

    The money is in the niche.

    Tom
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  • Profile picture of the author BradGB
    Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but isn't it implied with "the money is in the list" that you're already talking about people that have a niche selected and are building a list around that?
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  • Profile picture of the author Doug
    Okay...

    People believe "the money is in the list" as a choice of selling style. Sort of another bullet point, or better still the 'hook' that draws people in to their pitch. Convincing them otherwise goes against their core belief in selling.

    So, this 'belief' of marketing means 'the money IS in the list.'

    Not to mention, telling people "the money is in the niche" comes with a certain implied amount of work - finding just the niche to enter, for starters. I mean keyword research alone, for example, that takes time and effort.

    How's that? Any help? Guess the devil won't be hiring me any time soon.

    Just don't tell those list brokers in your audience list building is their niche.
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  • Profile picture of the author stoltingmediagroup
    It seems you have chosen to divide "niche" from "list", who were happily playing together to begin with.

    Your niche is the area of the market one chooses to specialize in by providing products or services geared towards a specific target audience.

    Your list is an essential (if not your most important asset) in this game,
    and if you are smart, you build one ( a list of leads and customers)
    and you maintain a proper relationship with them.

    Doing this could very well be the difference between paying for groceries with money, or paying with food stamps.

    Any answers to this question that seem to swing one way, or the other,
    can only come from people who may not see that a list is an essential component
    of marketing, within a chosen niche.
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  • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
    Hmmm just argue your case, if that's what you believe.

    If there are dissenters, just say there are a 1000 and 1 ways to do this but this worked for me.

    There are successful people all over the net who made a success of their business everyone doing it differently than the other.

    There is no right or wrong answer to your question
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  • Profile picture of the author Ilenia Internet Marketer
    Hello The Niche Man


    The money is in the list of niche!
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Not really sure I understand. The money is kind of in both ,No ?
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      • Profile picture of the author Steve B
        In a very practical sense, the money is with the prospect. Marketers try to access that money either through a list or less directly through the niche.

        I'm not trying to confuse the dilemma, but it seems to be pretty clear that you find prospects within a niche that are willing to exchange their money for whatever you are offering.

        Smart marketers realized long ago that building a list of interested prospects allowed them to market over and over again to those fans without having to re-locate them again within the general prospect pool. It was less costly and less work to sell to list members than to identify and sell to totally new prospects.

        The money is with people. And those people can be on your list or within your niche.

        Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author selfdisciplineacademy
    I don't believe neither of those statements is completely true.

    I believe ''The Money Is In The Relatioship With Your List''

    If you have a list of people who love you, your brand and open + engage with you emails, you can make tons of consistent income.
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  • Profile picture of the author kk075
    I believe that the money is in the niche as well, but since you want a devil's advocate I'll argue the opposite.

    When you're building a niche, the focus has to be solely on people and their very specific NEEDS. Because no matter how hard you try to make an impression, it is impossible to build a relationship without establishing mutual trust. That's the only way that people naturally opt-in and look forward to your emails.

    Your list, on the other hand, is the smartest way to steer consumers towards your sales landing pages. This keeps the core of your site informational so your list continues to grow, but also allows the chance to present special offers in a very personalized way. So if you're focused on both strong relationships and steady sales, the true money will always be in your list.

    Bottom line- your niche is for earning trust. You list is for capitalizing on it without chasing off new subscribers.

    Again, I'm with you that the sales are in the niche....but hopefully that helped.
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  • Profile picture of the author agmccall
    The money is in neither.

    The money is in peoples pockets, and if you want it you have to earn it. It is like any other business. just because you are a contractor, and I need a house built, does not automatically mean that you are going to get my money to build my house. You have a lot to prove my friend.

    Think of the people you buy from, and why you buy from them. Example. My wife and I shop at a local mom and pop type garden center. Every time we go they do not hesitate to answer all our questions, even if we do not buy anything that day. Their prices are a bit higher than your big box retailers, but they get our money.

    There are so many factors that you could probably talk for hours upon hours.

    hope it helps a bit

    al
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  • Profile picture of the author Joan Altz
    I would argue (as devil's advocate) that the money is more in the list than in the niche, simply because a niche is limited in scope (that's why it's a niche), but a list from any niche is comprised of people who are interested in many different niches, not only the niche used to sign them up.

    Are you in a weight loss niche? Those people have dogs, kids, sicknesses, insurance woes, etc.., and you can reach out to them about any of those things when they are subscribed to your list. That makes the list a bigger potential money-maker than any one niche.
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    • Profile picture of the author The Niche Man
      First of all thanks to everyone whose responded so far. Lots of great responses. I'm learning a thing or two I didn't know before, whether you agreed or disagreed. - Appreciate it!

      Originally Posted by BradGB View Post

      Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but isn't it implied with "the money is in the list" that you're already talking about people that have a niche selected and are building a list around that?
      Not always, in fact many people choose a market mistaking it for a niche or they choose a niche - but it's too broad. Or the niche is not targeted enough. Not to mention others who start a list without fully understanding what a niche is to begin with (still huge).

      Originally Posted by Robert Puddy View Post

      There is no right or wrong answer to your question
      I guess what I'm looking for is which is more essential. If you took away one could you still succeed with the other?

      Originally Posted by discrat View Post

      Not really sure I understand. The money is kind of in both ,No ?
      I guess what I'm looking for is which is the most essential. For me a list is essential don't get me wrong. However, most successful brick and mortar businesses don't have list - and some online businesses don't (at least they don't work it like traditional online marketers should). But they all have a strong niche- almost without exception.


      Originally Posted by Steve B View Post


      The money is with people. And those people can be on your list or within your niche.

      Steve
      O.k, I'm with you on that point. But going a little deeper to the foundation or the start, if I may. What specific steps do you take to get to those people ... to establish that list? What do you have to get right first? For example, many people have list- but not all list are profitable or even paying off. One of the many reasons is ...
      • Many people still confuse a market with a niche
      • They Choose a niche that's too broad
      and
      • Others are not quite sure what a niche is or that you're even suppose to have one.
      So, from that point on nothing else will work-- like it should. For example, your list, trying to establish a relationship or even your product offers.
      Originally Posted by agmccall View Post

      The money is in neither.

      The money is in peoples pockets, and if you want it you have to earn it. It is like any other business. just because you are a contractor, and I need a house built, does not automatically mean that you are going to get my money to build my house. You have a lot to prove my friend.
      And probably to earn it, I'll have to prove I can meet your needs more specifically (targeted niche) than my competitors. If I just fall into the general "me-too" product or service category like you implied (you're yawning) No Sale! Right? I have to find something extra/unique (so-to-speak) that separates me from the others. Yes?
      Originally Posted by Joan Altz View Post

      I would argue (as devil's advocate) that the money is more in the list than in the niche, simply because a niche is limited in scope (that's why it's a niche), but a list from any niche is comprised of people who are interested in many different niches, not only the niche used to sign them up.
      That's a good point in theory. But that's exactly what the power of a niche gives you, not necessarily limitation as you call it ... but focus! One of the biggest causes of failure in online marketing, as you know, is lack of focus or trying to be too many things to too many people.[/QUOTE]


      Originally Posted by Joan Altz View Post

      Are you in a weight loss niche? Those people have dogs, kids, sicknesses, insurance woes, etc.., and you can reach out to them about any of those things when they are subscribed to your list. That makes the list a bigger potential money-maker than any one niche.
      That may be a good way to approach a list if you're Walmart, Target or some other business with huge resources and marketing muscle (maybe). But based on the discipline of history, the average online marketer would do better to focus separate lists on specific niches within each one of those markets.
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      • Profile picture of the author agmccall
        Originally Posted by The Niche Man View Post


        And probably to earn it, I'll have to prove I can meet your needs more specifically (targeted niche) than my competitors. If I just fall into the general "me-too" product or service category like you implied (you're yawning) No Sale! Right? I have to find something extra/unique (so-to-speak) that separates me from the others. Yes?
        Correct, the money is actually in "You" can you prove to others that it belongs there. Do you have vision? Can you get someone around, over, under, or thru an obstacle. The money is everywhere, the money is nowhere. The VALUE is in you, or at least it should be. Niche or List, it does not matter. Do not be the "Nicheman" be the "AnswerMan" or the "Valueman"

        I think I got off track, sorry

        al
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      • Profile picture of the author Steve B
        Originally Posted by The Niche Man View Post


        • Many people still confuse a market with a niche
        • They Choose a niche that's too broad
        • Others are not quite sure what a niche is or that you're even suppose to have one.

        Niche Man,

        Good points and I agree totally. I think most IMers get off on the wrong foot because they try to be too much to too many people. They think, mistakenly, that they need a huge and very broad market audience for their business to be successful.

        Yes, it's counter-intuitive in some ways, but for most new marketers, they would be much better off creating a very unique and small niche for their business - one where they serve a small but like-minded group, a very specific corner of the market that the biggers players don't care about.

        Most folks would be surprised at what a small list of 1,000 or fewer rabid fans can mean in terms of income for the business owner.

        Thanks for the thread - good food for thought.

        Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author The Niche Man
          Originally Posted by Steve B View Post

          Niche Man,

          Most folks would be surprised at what a small list of 1,000 or fewer rabid fans can mean in terms of income for the business owner.

          Thanks for the thread - good food for thought.

          Steve
          That's a good point, and it's easy to overlook in a industry where everyone tells you in order to be successful you have to Think Big. I believe that by the way, but it doesn't have to apply to everything.

          Here's an article I came across some time ago that proves your point.
          Why You Don't Need a Big List or Audience to Be Successful
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  • Profile picture of the author Sarevok
    You can have the best niche in the world.

    But what if you can't reach the end users?
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  • Profile picture of the author extrememan
    Maybe - The Money Is In The List Vs The Money Is In The Followup! Most marketers say " the money is in the list" and they are part right but it's always better to deliver value and build rapport with the subscribers after they have subscribed to newsletters.
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  • Profile picture of the author HDRider
    I say they go hand in hand, if you have a huge list in the wrong niche your not going to make much. Now if you have a huge list in a huge niche then the sky's the limit.
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