Don't Believe in Building An Email List? Here, I'll Bet I Change Your Mind!

81 replies
I wrote this in another thread but I thought everyone could benefit from what I am saying here so I started this new thread about why you need to build your own email list A.S.A.P It was in response to a thread titled "why i dont have faith in building a list.."


Okay without writing a novel here I am going to attempt to prove to you that building a list is the way to go and everyone should do it immediately...

1. 99.9999% of successful online marketers have their own list...
2. Some PPC marketers are finding out that you need a list... (Hint: Google Slap last week)
3. Wal-Mart is now the second largest company in ad spend offline - do you think they are building a list and getting those prospects to their website? (Hint: Register to create a WishList)
4. 66% of those surveyed bought from a marketing message received through email (Exact Target)
5. 63% of respondents clicked a link in the email to learn more (Epsilon)
6. Email marketing doubles buying intention and increases recall by a further 14% (Unilever, eCircle and GFK)
7. 60% of women and 49% of men regularly save email in their inbox to refer to later when making a purchase (Epsilon - 2009)
8. 57% of the people surveyed said they had a more favorable opinion of the companies that send them email (Epsilon - 2009)

I could go on but I won't bore you anymore...

The end result... I only listen to statistical and factual data. I leave my own personal feelings and guess work out of it.

You cannot refute the data coming from many, many sources so building an email asset is something no one can take away from you if something online decides to make changes.

I have been in business for many years and my success really started the day I started building a list!

Mike Hill
#bet #building #change #email #list #mind
  • Profile picture of the author David_Thompson
    Mike that is some serious shit and if people don't understand that they need
    a list in this industry or what ever industry they are working in they might as
    well sell it quick...

    The life blood of any successful business is it's customer base...

    --David
    Signature
    JV partnership wanted, Lets grow your list for free. Nothing to do with giveaways. PM Now
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  • Profile picture of the author Zack Lim
    Hi Mike,

    Thank you for sharing the interesting facts.

    You have just proven again that building an email list is still an asset to a long term profitable business.

    Zack
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    FREE Affiliate Marketing Mini Course Reveals The Fastest And Honest Way To Make Your First $1000 Online

    Click Here To Get FREE Instant Access

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  • Profile picture of the author Asher
    Originally Posted by Mike Hill View Post

    I could go on but I won't bore you anymore...
    Hi Mike,

    Very cool stuff! If you've got more data that backs it up,
    I'd love to find out more

    Of course, I believe in it totally but when I am meeting with
    some of the offline peeps, stuff like this in a presentation
    really helps.

    Asher
    Signature
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    • Profile picture of the author Fernando Veloso
      Thanks Mike, Great piece of information to...

      Originally Posted by Asher View Post

      when I am meeting with
      some of the offline peeps, stuff like this in a presentation
      really helps.
      Asher said it right, and people love statistics.

      Fernando
      Signature
      People make good money selling to the rich. But the rich got rich selling to the masses.
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      • Profile picture of the author The Expert
        But what do you DO with the list is my question.

        What if your business model doesn't support list building when this is taken into consideration.

        Example: Let's say you are building 100 BANS-style eBay niche sites. Sure you could try and gather email addresses from all 100 of those sites...but what are you going to do with them?

        Come up with 100 email campaigns each month? That sounds all fine and good until you quickly realize that all you'll do each month is come up with offers.

        These micr-niche sites often only produce $10-20 p/month each...which means they can't support outsourcing either.

        So before everyone runs off building a list...they need to have SOME type of game plan as to what they'll be doing with it once they have it.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
          Originally Posted by The Expert View Post

          But what do you DO with the list is my question.

          What if your business model doesn't support list building when this is taken into consideration.

          Example: Let's say you are building 100 BANS-style eBay niche sites. Sure you could try and gather email addresses from all 100 of those sites...but what are you going to do with them?

          Come up with 100 email campaigns each month? That sounds all fine and good until you quickly realize that all you'll do each month is come up with offers.

          These micr-niche sites often only produce $10-20 p/month each...which means they can't support outsourcing either.

          So before everyone runs off building a list...they need to have SOME type of game plan as to what they'll be doing with it once they have it.

          That's exactly why people hire me I construct the game plan and maybe even convince a person that their current business model sucks.

          Right now you're current business model is quantity over quality. I would definitely need more information about you and your business because just slapping up subscribe boxes on all your pages IS NOT the answer at all...

          Mike Hill
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
      Originally Posted by Asher View Post

      Hi Mike,

      Very cool stuff! If you've got more data that backs it up,
      I'd love to find out more

      Of course, I believe in it totally but when I am meeting with
      some of the offline peeps, stuff like this in a presentation
      really helps.

      Asher
      If you look at the post and you'll see company names in brackets, those are the sources I collected this data from. Search those sources in Google and you will find more up to date data than you could possibly ever use!

      I'm sitting here right now with over 150 data cards about email marketing and list building. This is my business and I always keep on top of the latest data the industry provides.

      Mike Hill
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  • Profile picture of the author aspiepower
    I have a list, a big list .... getting a list isn't hard ... it's managing to USE the list that's the hard bit.

    I'm here tonight as I have been struggling to email my list, so I posted in the programming part of the forum and am now on a general wander about and found this thread.

    Before you start building your list, check that you really CAN email your list properly.... or you'll end up like me, with a huge list that you just can't find any sensible way to reach.

    Signature

    Real Work from Home Ideas:
    RealWAHOnline Writing with Little Reward │ ...

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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
      Originally Posted by aspiepower View Post

      I have a list, a big list .... getting a list isn't hard ... it's managing to USE the list that's the hard bit.

      I'm here tonight as I have been struggling to email my list, so I posted in the programming part of the forum and am now on a general wander about and found this thread.

      Before you start building your list, check that you really CAN email your list properly.... or you'll end up like me, with a huge list that you just can't find any sensible way to reach.


      When some of my clients ask me this same type of question I always ask them these questions so I know exactly were they are right now, how they built their list and what they should do to improve their situation.

      Questions I would ask you:

      1. How often do you contact your list?
      2. What kind of information do you send them?
      3. What is your open rate?
      4. What is your click-through rate?
      5. What are the top 3 sources you use to gather your leads from?

      These are the top questions I always ask. There are more questions to ask after these have been answered but these questions are what I must know in order to help an existing list owner pin-point what is going wrong.

      From these answers you'll be able to see if your leads are in fact targeted to your niche, if your subject lines are interesting enough to be opened, if your call to action inside the email is solid and if your subscribers are in fact being engaged through the content you write.

      Mike Hill
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  • Profile picture of the author Michael Oksa
    Awesome post!

    Get the list building efforts started ASAP. It doesn't have to be perfect - it can't be.

    You can learn a lot as you go. One thing you'll notice is that each list seems to have its own personality.

    There are so many other reasons, but I like how Mike backed up his with actual data.

    Now, for all of those still waiting....don't wait. Get going!

    All the best,
    Michael
    Signature

    "Ich bin en fuego!"
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  • Profile picture of the author Kingshouse
    Thanks Mike,

    I thought I'd add my own penny or two...

    A lot of marketers reckon they can just go about selling stuff. Well, if you have no one to sell to it is simply a waste of traffic and we all know traffic costs money especially the Google kind. I am not dissing Google by the way but let's be smart.

    BUILD A LIST that's your customer base!

    Cheerio

    Khs
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  • Profile picture of the author maverick80
    Mike,

    This doesn't have anything to do with your product in your signature does it?

    What niches do you build lists in?

    The reason I ask is because most people in the IM market push list building all day long, but very few of them actually have lists outside of the IM niche.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
      Originally Posted by maverick80 View Post

      Mike,

      This doesn't have anything to do with your product in your signature does it?

      What niches do you build lists in?

      The reason I ask is because most people in the IM market push list building all day long, but very few of them actually have lists outside of the IM niche.
      What product? I'm not even done it yet... This is just for good quality free information and you can't even get that just yet because I'm still working on it! That page even says I'm still working on it...

      I am heavily involved in a lot of different niches outside the IM space... I firmly believe in

      Learn it ---> Do it ---> Teach it...

      For instance, last week I went into an entirely new niche and within 3 days I was #3 in Google for a highly competitive search phrase. I just took a look at my stats and I have just under 200 subscribers already for that particular niche, without PPC or any other form of paid advertising at this point in time.

      I'm not against paid advertising I'm just smart about it

      Without revealing exactly how many niches I'm in outside of IM because that's not what this post is about... let's just say it's safe to say a heck of a lot more than people recommend... But I have a secret for that too which I'm not about to share at this point in time!


      Mike Hill

      PS. I reveal the exact niche, the website and how I did it step-by-step along with other great stuff you won't find anywhere else

      PPS. A lot of happy faces flyin' around LOL
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  • Profile picture of the author maverick80
    "PS. I reveal the exact niche, the website and how I did it step-by-step along with other great stuff you won't find anywhere else"

    Reveal it in what? Your new product?
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
      Originally Posted by maverick80 View Post

      "PS. I reveal the exact niche, the website and how I did it step-by-step along with other great stuff you won't find anywhere else"

      Reveal it in what? Your new product?
      Now I didn't mention anything about that until you brought this whole thing up, so what's your malfunction dude?

      If you need help or want advice then just ask... I freely help out a lot of folks here with my time and attention to the details. I respond to people's PM's that need help and I give them some very sound and solid advice that could have easily been payed for.

      I contribute to this forum for the greater good of everyone so I don't need someone like you to come here and jack me up.

      [bites lip]

      Mike Hill

      PS. There's a time for asking questions, nothing wrong with that, ask as many as you want but from what I've noticed maverick80 there comes a time when you have to take advice people give you from this forum and put it into action! The other threads you've posted in are asking a ton of quesitons... you have gotten some great feedback but have you acted upon it is the question?
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      • Profile picture of the author maverick80
        Hey Mike sure I've put a lot into action, and have had a lot of success. I'm just looking to grow my business. Sorry I didn't mean to come off the wrong way - but the post just looked like a way to drum up visibility for your new product.

        Most information around here talks the talk, but rarely walks the walk. Oh, and the feedback you get in this forum is pretty bad most of the time.

        I do agree with the stats you've posted, and the importance of list building. That's sound advice for sure.

        Originally Posted by Mike Hill View Post

        Now I didn't mention anything about that until you brought this whole thing up, so what's your malfunction dude?

        If you need help or want advice then just ask... I freely help out a lot of folks here with my time and attention to the details. I respond to people's PM's that need help and I give them some very sound and solid advice that could have easily been payed for.

        I contribute to this forum for the greater good of everyone so I don't need someone like you to come here and jack me up.

        [bites lip]

        Mike Hill

        PS. There's a time for asking questions, nothing wrong with that, ask as many as you want but from what I've noticed maverick80 there comes a time when you have to take advice people give you from this forum and put it into action! The other threads you've posted in are asking a ton of quesitons... you have gotten some great feedback but have you acted upon it is the question?
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
          Originally Posted by maverick80 View Post

          Hey Mike sure I've put a lot into action, and have had a lot of success. I'm just looking to grow my business. Sorry I didn't mean to come off the wrong way - but the post just looked like a way to drum up visibility for your new product.

          Most information around here talks the talk, but rarely walks the walk. Oh, and the feedback you get in this forum is pretty bad most of the time.

          I do agree with the stats you've posted, and the importance of list building. That's sound advice for sure.
          Well, it came off the way it came off... But if you have a look at some of my other posts in other threads you would see I consistently give solid advice freely and openly to anyone who wants and needs it.

          I'm not trying to create attention... No scratch that... I am trying to create attention because I have something very important I'd like to share with my friends through my posts.

          Also... who are you to decide what is promotional and what is solid advice?


          the post just looked like a way to drum up visibility for your new product
          So let me get this straight... I have spent most of my IM career involved in list building... testing, tracking, being a guest speaker on many teleseminars and so on but according to you I'm not allowed to share my knowledge?

          I could understand that if a person came here once in a blue moon and posted only to have their link visible but I spend a lot of time here adding value, or at least trying to...

          Mike Hill
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    • Profile picture of the author Martin Luxton
      Originally Posted by maverick80 View Post

      "PS. I reveal the exact niche, the website and how I did it step-by-step along with other great stuff you won't find anywhere else"

      Reveal it in what? Your new product?
      He gives some hardcore, checkable facts in the OP, not the kind of "secret" fluff a lot of other people post, and you come out with that?

      Post much appreciated, Mike.

      I was actually thinking it also answers the standard offline gold question "What shall I talk to the business owner about?"

      Martin
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      • Profile picture of the author Hasan Barbary
        Mike, thanks for the hard data. I started building my list just a few months ago ~ lots of signups, but very low conversion.

        I believe the problem is with the affiliate product I was originally using as the freebie hook.

        Here's my question: if you determine that your original offer was crap, but several hundred people signed up for it, do you start all over? "Come clean" with some kind of apologetic email?

        I know for many veterans here, anything under a thousand subscribers or so is just chump change, but it IS my list, and my reputation.

        Any suggestions? (Thanks in advance.)
        Signature
        {***sig break***}
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        • Profile picture of the author John Dufresne
          Originally Posted by Hasan Barbary View Post

          Here's my question: if you determine that your original offer was crap, but several hundred people signed up for it, do you start all over? "Come clean" with some kind of apologetic email?

          I know for many veterans here, anything under a thousand subscribers or so is just chump change, but it IS my list, and my reputation.

          Any suggestions? (Thanks in advance.)
          I would offer them another freebie, but much better then the one you originally did.

          I would not "come Clean" because you have nothing to come clean about. You offered a product, might not be good to you, but it must have been good for them, otherwise they wouldn't have signed up.

          That's just IMO.
          Signature
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
          Originally Posted by Hasan Barbary View Post

          Here's my question: if you determine that your original offer was crap, but several hundred people signed up for it, do you start all over? "Come clean" with some kind of apologetic email?
          (Thanks in advance.)
          Okay, here goes...

          1. First look at what you already know to determine what you need to change in the process.

          - Capture page works for the most part (I don't have any stats but from what you are saying there are people signing up)

          2. Now you need to determine if these people are confirming their email address (if you have that option) if they aren't confirming then you need to have a Confirmation Instruction page to tell them and show them how to confirm their email in order to get the product or whatever incentive you are giving them.

          3. What is your open rate of your email like? If it needs improvement then test a few different subject lines.

          4. What is your click through rate like? Do you have a specific call to action in your email to tell them what to do?

          5. Lastly, are you contacting them enough or way too much? On average, my email content in pre-loaded to go out every 3 days (give or take).

          I wouldn't send an email to your list with an apology, just keep moving forward testing and tracking.

          I'd need some more information to really get to the bottom of it but hopefully this is enough information for you to route the problem.

          Mike Hill
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  • Profile picture of the author Simon74
    Great post I totally agree with you mike! The list is the number one priority for your business.
    Simon
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  • Profile picture of the author Jimnopks
    I find it funny how two people look things.

    I liked the thread so well I copied it so I can use it in an email Mike.

    Aparently Maverick sees your thread as a ploy to sell us something.

    Thanks Mike

    Jim
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Stigson
    Dang man! this was some serious stats about this topic! You should mention this "Your profits is in direct proportion to the size of your list size increase"

    That's also something that's true. When you get that 30+ people who know, like and trust you and buy whatever you got, an email is a sure-fire way to make money!

    - Chris
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  • Profile picture of the author discrat
    Originally Posted by Mike Hill View Post

    I wrote this in another thread but I thought everyone could benefit from what I am saying here so I started this new thread about why you need to build your own email list A.S.A.P It was in response to a thread titled "why i dont have faith in building a list.."


    Okay without writing a novel here I am going to attempt to prove to you that building a list is the way to go and everyone should do it immediately...

    1. 99.9999% of successful online marketers have their own list...
    2. Some PPC marketers are finding out that you need a list... (Hint: Google Slap last week)
    3. Wal-Mart is now the second largest company in ad spend offline - do you think they are building a list and getting those prospects to their website? (Hint: Register to create a WishList)
    4. 66% of those surveyed bought from a marketing message received through email (Exact Target)
    5. 63% of respondents clicked a link in the email to learn more (Epsilon)
    6. Email marketing doubles buying intention and increases recall by a further 14% (Unilever, eCircle and GFK)
    7. 60% of women and 49% of men regularly save email in their inbox to refer to later when making a purchase (Epsilon - 2009)
    8. 57% of the people surveyed said they had a more favorable opinion of the companies that send them email (Epsilon - 2009)

    I could go on but I won't bore you anymore...

    The end result... I only listen to statistical and factual data. I leave my own personal feelings and guess work out of it.

    You cannot refute the data coming from many, many sources so building an email asset is something no one can take away from you if something online decides to make changes.

    I have been in business for many years and my success really started the day I started building a list!

    Mike Hill

    Is it just me Folks or does that Mike Hill look like one Mother-Fing ,Bad Arse, GI Joe in that Profile picture
    Rock on with List Building
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  • Profile picture of the author Mr McDonald
    Originally Posted by Mike Hill View Post

    I wrote this in another thread but I thought everyone could benefit from what I am saying here so I started this new thread about why you need to build your own email list A.S.A.P It was in response to a thread titled "why i dont have faith in building a list.."


    Okay without writing a novel here I am going to attempt to prove to you that building a list is the way to go and everyone should do it immediately...

    1. 99.9999% of successful online marketers have their own list...
    2. Some PPC marketers are finding out that you need a list... (Hint: Google Slap last week)
    3. Wal-Mart is now the second largest company in ad spend offline - do you think they are building a list and getting those prospects to their website? (Hint: Register to create a WishList)
    4. 66% of those surveyed bought from a marketing message received through email (Exact Target)
    5. 63% of respondents clicked a link in the email to learn more (Epsilon)
    6. Email marketing doubles buying intention and increases recall by a further 14% (Unilever, eCircle and GFK)
    7. 60% of women and 49% of men regularly save email in their inbox to refer to later when making a purchase (Epsilon - 2009)
    8. 57% of the people surveyed said they had a more favorable opinion of the companies that send them email (Epsilon - 2009)

    I could go on but I won't bore you anymore...

    The end result... I only listen to statistical and factual data. I leave my own personal feelings and guess work out of it.

    You cannot refute the data coming from many, many sources so building an email asset is something no one can take away from you if something online decides to make changes.

    I have been in business for many years and my success really started the day I started building a list!

    Mike Hill
    One of the most sensible posts i have read on this forum.

    A list is so important and
    deserves the number ONE priority in your
    online business:
    It's probably the ONLY real, sellable asset
    in your business.

    Think about it...

    You only own 3 things in your business
    - Your intellectual property (product)
    - Your websites (media)
    - Your list (customers)

    Unless you have a best-selling product...
    a website with lots of traffic coming
    to it... a domain name that other people
    want and are willing to pay a high price
    for (like Yahoo.com)... it's unlikely for
    the first 2 things above to be valuable.

    But with a list, you can sell your products,
    sell other people's products, or push traffic
    to any website,

    In fact, your list is the only asset that can
    make you money before you own a product or
    website.With a list, your money making activities
    can be placed on autopilot.
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  • Profile picture of the author John Dufresne
    Thank you Mike for those stats.
    The money IS in the list.
    Signature
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Murphy
    GASP!!! Someone trying to sell us something on a marketing forum?? You must be kidding. :-)

    ANYWAY...the most important thing I've learned from the Warrior forum (which is the true secret to getting value out of visiting it) is to find the people that specialize in a particular topic, know what they're talking about and share good information and pay attention to them to learn all you can from them.

    Mike Hill = List building. If you want to learn to build a list properly, Mike is the guy to learn from. If he tries to sell you something....BUY IT. If he tries to GIVE you something TAKE TWO :-)

    Can we get back to the lesson now?
    Signature
    Guitar PLR - New MONSTER Guitar Video PLR Pack![LIMITED]
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  • Profile picture of the author Matt Bard
    This is why I have been telling people for a while now that if you don't have anything from Mike yet, go get it.

    His stuff is top notch, hardcore marketing. I have been on a few of Mike's lists as a subscriber and a few to see how he markets.

    He always delivers more than expected and more importantly to me, it works.
    A couple of years ago I signed up for a free report from him, and got two free unexpected bonuses that knocked my socks off.

    Every time I learned something new from Mike and went out and applied it the results are great.

    He has 8 - 10 email opt-in templates (are you still giving those away Mike?) that he was giving away that people are paying for and if you just did a little fill-in-the-blanks would get pretty good conversions.

    Well, as you can tell, I'm a fan of his stuff and I'm not getting paid to say this.
    I had to jump in when I saw that other guy (maverick80) knockin' Mike.

    Matt
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  • Profile picture of the author Soflyy
    Lists are probably the easiest way to make money online.
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  • Profile picture of the author bgmacaw
    It's not a part of my business model. I suppose it could be in some areas, such as the few products I sell. Like 'The Expert' above, I don't build a lot of sites conducive to email list building.

    Perhaps the biggest problem I have with using email marketing myself is that I personally consider most of it spam or, perhaps 'bacn' because I asked for most of it originally. Stopping it, unless the sender uses Aweber or other strict 'can spam' service, has proven difficult. So, I end up with 1000 unwanted emails in my junk mail box a day. There could be some good stuff in there, maybe, but it gets thrown out with the trash. There are maybe only 4 senders I ever open. Maybe I'm putting too personal a spin on it but I don't see annoying someone with "Wow! Check out this latest reshashed INFO!!!" on a daily basis as 'building a solid customer relationship'.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
      Originally Posted by bgmacaw View Post

      It's not a part of my business model. I suppose it could be in some areas, such as the few products I sell. Like 'The Expert' above, I don't build a lot of sites conducive to email list building.

      Perhaps the biggest problem I have with using email marketing myself is that I personally consider most of it spam or, perhaps 'bacn' because I asked for most of it originally. Stopping it, unless the sender uses Aweber or other strict 'can spam' service, has proven difficult. So, I end up with 1000 unwanted emails in my junk mail box a day. There could be some good stuff in there, maybe, but it gets thrown out with the trash. There are maybe only 4 senders I ever open. Maybe I'm putting too personal a spin on it but I don't see annoying someone with "Wow! Check out this latest reshashed INFO!!!" on a daily basis as 'building a solid customer relationship'.
      You really need to just put your own feelings aside and trust the data. There are far better ways to conduct email marketing than what you describe. Just because a lot of other people send emails that way doesn't mean you have to be like that.

      Of the 4 senders you open why don't you model them (if they are successful at it, I wouldn't know) and put your own spin on it. Personality is everything!

      If Wal-Mart can build a list of people who visit their website to create a wish list I'm sure you could create a list in your area as well, it just takes some thinking outside the box.

      For instance the product in your sig file, you could easily create a list from that niche. I know a guy who has an online list of people who buy safety products. He thought the same thing as you at one point in time but now he makes 50% more profits every month just by sending monthly special emails.

      Mike Hill
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      • Profile picture of the author bgmacaw
        Originally Posted by Mike Hill View Post

        Of the 4 senders you open why don't you model them (if they are successful at it, I wouldn't know) and put your own spin on it. Personality is everything!
        The main one is GoDaddy, I'm looking for discount codes on domains and I don't care about anything else in the email. Kind of difficult to put my own spin on that unless I can hire Danica Patrick.

        Others are for physical products like guitars and fishing gear that I bought in the past and, once again, I'm looking for discounts, not info. Digital IM products either get unsubscribed or sent to junk when that doesn't work, which it usually doesn't unless they're using Aweber.

        Originally Posted by Mike Hill View Post

        If Wal-Mart can build a list of people who visit their website to create a wish list I'm sure you could create a list in your area as well, it just takes some thinking outside the box.
        Keep in mind that 90% of my sites are specifically designed to get a click-thru on an Adsense, eBay, Chitika or other affiliate ad from targeted search engine visitors. There are as few distractions on the page as possible that might cause a visitor to do anything else. Adding any kind of opt-in would reduce CTR and cost me money. Email marketing just isn't part of that business model.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
          Originally Posted by bgmacaw View Post

          The main one is GoDaddy, I'm looking for discount codes on domains and I don't care about anything else in the email. Kind of difficult to put my own spin on that unless I can hire Danica Patrick.

          Others are for physical products like guitars and fishing gear that I bought in the past and, once again, I'm looking for discounts, not info. Digital IM products either get unsubscribed or sent to junk when that doesn't work, which it usually doesn't unless they're using Aweber.



          Keep in mind that 90% of my sites are specifically designed to get a click-thru on an Adsense, eBay, Chitika or other affiliate ad from targeted search engine visitors. There are as few distractions on the page as possible that might cause a visitor to do anything else. Adding any kind of opt-in would reduce CTR and cost me money. Email marketing just isn't part of that business model.


          That's fine... I'm glad that's all working out for you without building a marketing list and I can appreciate that fact.

          You remind me of a buddy of mine who was heavily into PPC marketing and he refused to build a list for years and he was doing quite well too. But recently Google slammed him and his quality score went from like an 8 or 9 down to a 1... Ouch...

          He called me up for advice (mostly just to talk though) and he wished he had taken my advice. I just don't want to see the same thing happen to you if Google decides to cut the umbilical cord.

          Mike Hill
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        • Profile picture of the author Jason Dolman
          Originally Posted by bgmacaw View Post

          Keep in mind that 90% of my sites are specifically designed to get a click-thru on an Adsense, eBay, Chitika or other affiliate ad from targeted search engine visitors. There are as few distractions on the page as possible that might cause a visitor to do anything else. Adding any kind of opt-in would reduce CTR and cost me money. Email marketing just isn't part of that business model.
          That is why building sites designed to get a click-thru are a very poor long-term strategy unless your intentions are to turn the sites into sell-able assets and build a list of potential buyers for the websites.

          This way you'd still have a list... a list of people who are willing to buy the designed for click-thru sites you build and promote.

          Which just goes to further Mike's point... if you want a real, sustainable online business you need to have a list.

          In fact, I'd argue you need at least 2 lists...

          #1 - Prospect List - people who are interested in what you have to offer
          #2 - Buyer List - people who have taken action and made a purchase decision


          Jason
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          • Profile picture of the author bgmacaw
            Originally Posted by Jason Dolman View Post

            That is why building sites designed to get a click-thru are a very poor long-term strategy unless your intentions are to turn the sites into sell-able assets and build a list of potential buyers for the websites.
            I don't consider spamming the hell out of people who're not interested in your 'offers' to be a good long term strategy either. That's what 95% of the email marketing I see means.
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            • Profile picture of the author bobsedge
              Originally Posted by bgmacaw View Post

              I don't consider spamming the hell out of people who're not interested in your 'offers' to be a good long term strategy either. That's what 95% of the email marketing I see means.
              Have you experimented with sticking an opt in as a gateway to your click thru? I would be curious to know how it affected your results.

              The question is will the revenue you earn on follow up campaigns exceed the revenue you lose because of the filter.
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            • Profile picture of the author Jason Dolman
              Originally Posted by bgmacaw View Post

              I don't consider spamming the hell out of people who're not interested in your 'offers' to be a good long term strategy either. That's what 95% of the email marketing I see means.
              I don't quite understand how you can equate opt-in email marketing with spamming the hell out of people who're not interested in your 'offers'.

              When you turn on your TV, do you expect to see commercials?

              When you visit websites, do you expect to see ads?

              When you listen to the radio, do you expect to hear radio ads?

              Same with opting in to an email list.

              When someone puts their name and email address into a form, they are raising their hand and saying they want to receive emails from you.

              If they don't want to receive emails, they can easily unsubscribe... just as they can visit another website or change the TV channel/radio station.

              Regardless...

              Who cares what other people are doing. The beauty of managing an email list is you get to run it however you like.

              If you don't want to send out a ton of promotions and would rather stick to promoting your own stuff or only promoting other offers infrequently, you can do so.

              Strive to be the 5%.




              Jason
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              • Profile picture of the author bgmacaw
                Originally Posted by Jason Dolman View Post

                If they don't want to receive emails, they can easily unsubscribe..
                That's one problem I have. The ability to 'easily unsubscribe' hasn't been my experience unless the sender is using Aweber or one of the other major US based responder companies. If they're not, you get a ton of crap sent to you that you don't want and unsubscribes are ignored. Even worse, your email gets sold and you start getting the bottom feeder 'male enhancement' type emails.

                I don't question that email marketing can be an effective online marketing method but I do question statements that it is the only one to use or that its one I should be using when I have such a strong personal dislike for it.
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            • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
              Originally Posted by bgmacaw View Post

              I don't consider spamming the hell out of people who're not interested in your 'offers' to be a good long term strategy either. That's what 95% of the email marketing I see means.
              As apposed to spamming the search engines with crappy click thru sites that clog up the serps and make searching for real imformatiom 10 times as hard?

              And if they subscribed to the list, we can only assume they are or were interested in our offers, I dont see how we could come to any other conclusion do you?

              Nice set of statistics mike by the way

              Robert
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              • Profile picture of the author bgmacaw
                Originally Posted by Robert Puddy View Post

                As apposed to spamming the search engines with crappy click thru sites that clog up the serps and make searching for real imformatiom 10 times as hard?
                To paraphrase Sun Tzu, "All Internet Marketing is based on deception."

                Originally Posted by Robert Puddy View Post

                And if they subscribed to the list, we can only assume they are or were interested in our offers, I dont see how we could come to any other conclusion do you?
                Maybe one offer, one freebie, not the same lame rehashed be-all-end-all time-sensitive JV offer crap being blasted to them daily.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jason Dolman
      Originally Posted by bgmacaw View Post

      . There are maybe only 4 senders I ever open. Maybe I'm putting too personal a spin on it but I don't see annoying someone with "Wow! Check out this latest reshashed INFO!!!" on a daily basis as 'building a solid customer relationship'.
      To each their own, right?

      Although I agree you're entitled to your own opinion, I find it a poor long-term decision to build your entire online business around it... especially when the numbers (shown above) prove otherwise.

      Sounds to me like cutting off your nose to spite your face...



      Jason
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Originally Posted by bgmacaw View Post

      It's not a part of my business model. I suppose it could be in some areas, such as the few products I sell. Like 'The Expert' above, I don't build a lot of sites conducive to email list building.

      Perhaps the biggest problem I have with using email marketing myself is that I personally consider most of it spam or, perhaps 'bacn' because I asked for most of it originally. Stopping it, unless the sender uses Aweber or other strict 'can spam' service, has proven difficult. So, I end up with 1000 unwanted emails in my junk mail box a day. There could be some good stuff in there, maybe, but it gets thrown out with the trash. There are maybe only 4 senders I ever open. Maybe I'm putting too personal a spin on it but I don't see annoying someone with "Wow! Check out this latest reshashed INFO!!!" on a daily basis as 'building a solid customer relationship'.
      Hey, bgmacaw I had your point of view for a long time. I also love Adsense and have a Passion building Sites around it. But to limit yourself to that is just plain foolhardy. Cases after cases pop up everyday where Google pulls the plug on people who have NOT done anything against the Adsense TOS with intent. I could go on and on about this.

      The Key to a solution for the Google Police ?? DIVERSIFY !!

      It is as plain and simple as that. I made the transition myself with Success and know you can too. I will be straight up honest here. And I dont mean to sound over-dramatic but it perplexes and somewhat shocks me that you hold this view about email Marketing.

      I have always appreciated your extremely valuable contributions to Warriors but i thought for some reason that you took a different view about IM as far as Diversifying.

      I learned a long time ago about Cliches and how sometimes people will beat their drum over and over and over about something. Alot of times those around will just roll their eyes and say 'yeah I heard this cliche some many times before but its all just hype ' .

      Well, I can say that the people who go and on and no about Email Marketing arent hyping it. They dont need to. The proof is in the pudding and the Stats speak for themselves.

      You can either jump on the Train and go along for the ride or stay contented with yourself by doing what YOU THINK is the correct way to do things.

      Like Mike said, take your emotions and preconceived feelings out of it and JUST DO IT !!
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      • Profile picture of the author bgmacaw
        Originally Posted by discrat View Post

        I have always appreciated your extremely valuable contributions to Warriors but i thought for some reason that you took a different view about IM as far as Diversifying.
        I do diversify some but search marketing is my primary focus. I do realize that I'm probably leaving money at the table by not pounding the customers of my program and ebook with offer after offer. However, doing that would go against the grain for me. To me, it would almost be like promoting porn sites, I'd make more money but I wouldn't be happy with myself.
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  • Profile picture of the author haikuangel
    I have to agree with you on this one. Building an email list is trully essential not just for a client base standpoint but has its own profitability margin. We all know that information databases have huge profit potential and is used by several industries. Many companies lease or sell information databases to marketing and telecommunications firms and this can be explored as part of the profit generating pool for your business.
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  • Profile picture of the author Kurt
    Hi Mike,

    I'm curious about the source of this info:

    1. 99.9999% of successful online marketers have their own list...
    This means 9,999,999 out of 10 MILLION, or 1 out of 10 million doesn't have a list.

    Is this just figure of speech to make a point (which is OK) or am I missing something?

    However, if it's just a figure of speech, it would seem to contradict the following comment you made in the OP:

    The end result... I only listen to statistical and factual data. I leave my own personal feelings and guess work out of it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
      Originally Posted by Kurt View Post

      Hi Mike,

      I'm curious about the source of this info:

      1. 99.9999% of successful online marketers have their own list...
      This means 9,999,999 out of 10 MILLION, or 1 out of 10 million doesn't have a list.

      Is this just figure of speech to make a point (which is OK) or am I missing something?

      However, if it's just a figure of speech, it would seem to contradict the following comment you made in the OP:


      I guess I made a typo and put in one too many point .999's but hey let's just call it room for improvement. Nice little jib jab on the old ribblets their spanky ...ROFLMFAO

      How some people spend their time, but hey we are all entitled to our own opinion. I think Dr. Phil refers to them as "Right Fighters"...

      Whatever!

      Mike Hill
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  • Profile picture of the author GoddardThompson
    Definitely one of the most powerful strategies. Actually added a list to my blog today!
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    • Profile picture of the author BrashImpact
      Mike,
      thanks for taking the time to post that statistical data. LOL your timing was perfect as i was researching some of that exact data to use as ammunition for my offline client base. The wish list is awesome, in fact i have been using that for about 8 months with killer results. I take my offline clients, and send them a Business Wish list email after they have been with me for a month. At that point, when i have enough data collected, i either make the product to fill the need, or go find one if its not in my background. Either way, it counts for a Major statistical advantage for me profit wise. I would much rather sell to someones wish list than any other way. The conversion rate is through the roof.

      Thanks again for the excellent post.

      Regards,
      Robert Nelson
      "The Maverick Motivator"
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  • Profile picture of the author bobsedge
    Having a list makes all the sense in the world because the alternative, giving yourself only one bite at the apple, is not good business. Not every purchase decision is impulsive. Some people actually need to warmed into making a purchase.

    That being said, I think email has become inefficient. Since its essentially free, it is absolutely the way to go, but there are other ways to engage your prospects in addition to email and those ways should be explored.

    Mike's statistics are great and stats don't lie, but there is no stat on his list for the percentage of emails that get opened. I have read on average anywjere from 5 to 15 percent.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jimnopks
    Most people use aweber and get response.

    What do you recommend Mike?

    Jim
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
      Originally Posted by Jimnopks View Post

      Most people use aweber and get response.

      What do you recommend Mike?

      Jim
      Jim,

      I have always used aWeber myself (other than when I first got started and used Email Aces for a while) and find no requirement to go anywhere else. Once a person gets used to a system and it's working out then why bother changing. I've seen other services that are cheaper and recommend those to beginners who can't really spend the $20 per month and there are also more expensive solutions with different features.

      aWeber works for me though...

      Mike Hill

      PS. The only other service I recommend is Email Aces owned by Gary Ambrose. Great service, great price (under $10 a month)...
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      • Profile picture of the author David_Thompson
        Mike I used to like emailaces but from what I can see
        they have fallen behind bigtime, the service is slow
        mailings taking 5 to 8 hours going out and that's
        been happening for a while now...

        Aweber is only $20 a month well it used to be but
        the services is like night and day.

        It seems gary have this system for himself and have
        a few paying customers to cover his expenses.

        This isn't run anyway like aweber or infusion...which
        is a damm shame because i used to like it...and it
        works for the small guys..

        --David



        Originally Posted by Mike Hill View Post

        Jim,

        I have always used aWeber myself (other than when I first got started and used Email Aces for a while) and find no requirement to go anywhere else. Once a person gets used to a system and it's working out then why bother changing. I've seen other services that are cheaper and recommend those to beginners who can't really spend the $20 per month and there are also more expensive solutions with different features.

        aWeber works for me though...

        Mike Hill

        PS. The only other service I recommend is Email Aces owned by Gary Ambrose. Great service, great price (under $10 a month)...
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
          Originally Posted by David_Thompson View Post

          Mike I used to like emailaces but from what I can see
          they have fallen behind bigtime, the service is slow
          mailings taking 5 to 8 hours going out and that's
          been happening for a while now...

          Aweber is only $20 a month well it used to be but
          the services is like night and day.

          It seems gary have this system for himself and have
          a few paying customers to cover his expenses.

          This isn't run anyway like aweber or infusion...which
          is a damm shame because i used to like it...and it
          works for the small guys..

          --David
          Thanks for that Dave, I didn't realize that... It was years ago when I first used Email Aces so thanks for that update...

          Mike Hill
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  • Profile picture of the author BigVin
    Good post. Pay attention to what he said. Very important!
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  • Profile picture of the author Clark
    Helluva post, K-Dub!

    Would you mind sharing some of your results (numbers -> not niches) from the smaller lists you have (maybe even one you just started to build) so we can all put this into a bite-sized-chunk perspective that may seem more attainable for the newbie list starter?

    The source statistical data you provided is great and all but they're not relative to the audience who doesn't have experience with building/preselling/managing a list from what I was able to ascertain from the responses of the detractors.

    Cheers brah!
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
      Originally Posted by Clark View Post

      Helluva post, K-Dub!

      Would you mind sharing some of your results (numbers -> not niches) from the smaller lists you have (maybe even one you just started to build) so we can all put this into a bite-sized-chunk perspective that may seem more attainable for the newbie list starter?

      The source statistical data you provided is great and all but they're not relative to the audience who doesn't have experience with building/preselling/managing a list from what I was able to ascertain from the responses of the detractors.

      Cheers brah!
      Hey sorry Clark I was going back through the posts and forgot to answer your question.

      I have a lot of different lists, more than most would recommend, covering a wide spectrum of niches. An interesting one I just looked at tonight was just under 200 subscribers, a 100% confirmation rate and 4 unsubscribes...

      Not bad for the first 6 days on a brand new domain with no promotion, just type in traffic of the keyword phrases I am targeting, one article and a few blog posts. I'm also #4 on Google's first page for one of the main keywords with a search volume of 1,300+ searches a month.

      Once I put my traffic plan into place it should get more subscribers but one thing I have to work on is my copy-writing skills... I suck at it

      Mike Hill
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  • Profile picture of the author Jimnopks
    One more question Mike.

    Aweber new or old version?

    Jim
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
      Originally Posted by Jimnopks View Post

      One more question Mike.

      Aweber new or old version?

      Jim
      I've only ever used the old version... Got used to things that way and haven't had the need to mess with it... I don't know if you can still get the old version at least not at the price point I'm locked into

      Mike Hill
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  • Profile picture of the author Jimnopks
    This is the old versin AWeber

    The problem I hear is that the old version has no tracking software, but is much cheaper.

    up to 10,000 I think for $20

    Jim
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
      Originally Posted by Jimnopks View Post

      This is the old versin AWeber

      The problem I hear is that the old version has no tracking software, but is much cheaper.

      up to 10,000 I think for $20

      Jim
      Jim,

      Well the only tracking I need is deliverability rate, open rate and clickthrough rate... I have all that in the old system.

      When I test different squeeze pages I create separate Optin forms for the same list and that shows me the numbers.

      I like to keep things as simple as possible. I also use Google Analytics to show me how people found my site and setup different goals through the process to see all those details.

      Mike Hill
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  • Profile picture of the author willyboy104
    Nice reading Mike thanks, and a very good point to make. Not enough people realise how important a list is, hell I didn't until several months ago and now I have a list in several different niches and I just keep on building.

    However I do have a question for you or two maybe,

    Firstly, its OK saying build a list and if you know how to build one like myself how do you actually keep the subscribers loving you? Say you hand out a free eBook for subscribing, how do you keep them respecting you for weeks/months later without putting too much effort or time in to it?

    Now this is not because I am lazy, merely because I don't have the time to focus on several different lists everyday as I am still building them.

    Thanks Mike

    Regards,
    Will.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
      Originally Posted by willyboy104 View Post

      Nice reading Mike thanks, and a very good point to make. Not enough people realise how important a list is, hell I didn't until several months ago and now I have a list in several different niches and I just keep on building.

      However I do have a question for you or two maybe,

      Firstly, its OK saying build a list and if you know how to build one like myself how do you actually keep the subscribers loving you? Say you hand out a free eBook for subscribing, how do you keep them respecting you for weeks/months later without putting too much effort or time in to it?

      Now this is not because I am lazy, merely because I don't have the time to focus on several different lists everyday as I am still building them.

      Thanks Mike

      Regards,
      Will.
      The absolute best advice I can give you to make your subscribers love you without much work involved is:

      Just be human!

      I mean, not everyone will love it and they can leave at any time, but the way you connect with your subscribers is important. I highly suggest using video and not the fancy corporate type of video with the implanted green screen office in the background either.

      What I mean is just turn the thing (camera) on and start talking...

      Being human and being real in front of your audience goes a long way and a whole bunch of other psychological stuff going-on too..

      Ah crap... just watch the video...

      Mike Hill
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  • Profile picture of the author Jimnopks
    Hey David,

    I just checked out email aces and Gary is giving away one free autoresponder for a list up to 500 people trying to create a buzz about his ar.

    For the newbie, that may be OK, but while you were learning how to operate ea, you could spend the time learning aw and be that much further ahead of the learning curve.

    I have been like Mccaw and resisted building a list for so long it isn't even funny.

    I signed up for aw and then just let it sit there for months before canceling it.

    Did it twice.

    Maybe 3 times is a charm.

    Mike
    Good to know the difference between the two.

    That helps me decide which way to go.

    Jim
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  • Profile picture of the author rahails
    Great advice.. I remember another warrior saying that even if every online resource goes down, he has an email list to make money from...!
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve Campbell
    Thanks for the great stats Mike! I've been doing a lot of research on list building as of late and it really is good advice. You can't succeed without a list!
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  • Profile picture of the author willyboy104
    Thank you very much for the reply Mike, I was'nt expecting a video, very nice touch and it really made the message clear and made it hit home.

    I have always wanted to be human so to speak, when writing to my subscribers and communicating with them but there has always been a little man inside my head saying "stay professional, keep professional" and I have always (well most of the time) listened to what they said however now I am going to forget the little man and instead be human, not a robot I am not going to tidy everything up in to a neatly compiled article of jargon but instead leave in my rambles, my personal opinions and thoughts.

    I can't thank you enough, anyways I hope your supper was nice
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  • Profile picture of the author pappyy3
    Originally Posted by Mike Hill View Post

    I wrote this in another thread but I thought everyone could benefit from what I am saying here so I started this new thread about why you need to build your own email list A.S.A.P It was in response to a thread titled "why i dont have faith in building a list.."


    Okay without writing a novel here I am going to attempt to prove to you that building a list is the way to go and everyone should do it immediately...

    1. 99.9999% of successful online marketers have their own list...
    2. Some PPC marketers are finding out that you need a list... (Hint: Google Slap last week)
    3. Wal-Mart is now the second largest company in ad spend offline - do you think they are building a list and getting those prospects to their website? (Hint: Register to create a WishList)
    4. 66% of those surveyed bought from a marketing message received through email (Exact Target)
    5. 63% of respondents clicked a link in the email to learn more (Epsilon)
    6. Email marketing doubles buying intention and increases recall by a further 14% (Unilever, eCircle and GFK)
    7. 60% of women and 49% of men regularly save email in their inbox to refer to later when making a purchase (Epsilon - 2009)
    8. 57% of the people surveyed said they had a more favorable opinion of the companies that send them email (Epsilon - 2009)

    I could go on but I won't bore you anymore...

    The end result... I only listen to statistical and factual data. I leave my own personal feelings and guess work out of it.

    You cannot refute the data coming from many, many sources so building an email asset is something no one can take away from you if something online decides to make changes.

    I have been in business for many years and my success really started the day I started building a list!

    Mike Hill

    So there is a extremely small minority of Successful Internet marketer that don't have a mailing list??? If so, what are the methods that are working for them?

    Just Curious
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
      Originally Posted by pappyy3 View Post

      So there is a extremely small minority of Successful Internet marketer that don't have a mailing list??? If so, what are the methods that are working for them?

      Just Curious
      The thing that is working for that small percentage of marketers
      that are successful despite having a list of subscribers is...

      LUCK!
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  • Profile picture of the author runfast
    Thanks Mike for sharing this.

    I've never been a big believer in building a list because I thought that most people were like me. I always unsubscribe the moment I get an email that is trying to sell me something that I'm not looking for. Apparently I'm wrong...most people must love to fill their inboxes with opt-in emails. Not me.
    Thanks again for posting this.

    Regards, Mike -runfast-
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
      Originally Posted by runfast View Post

      Thanks Mike for sharing this.

      I've never been a big believer in building a list because I thought that most people were like me. I always unsubscribe the moment I get an email that is trying to sell me something that I'm not looking for. Apparently I'm wrong...most people must love to fill their inboxes with opt-in emails. Not me.
      Thanks again for posting this.

      Regards, Mike -runfast-

      You really have to leave your own feelings and emotions out of it and follow the stats. The reason a lot of people never get anywhere is because they jump to conclusions and assumptions based on their own taste and feelings of what they think people want instead of listening to what people want.

      Don't jump to conclusions!

      Mike Hill
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  • Profile picture of the author bobsedge
    Mike,

    Can you share your approximate stats on your emails- more specifically bounce rates and open rates? And how do the stats change as time goes by? Do they get better because you have won over their trust or do they get worse because the message gets a little stale?

    Thanks

    Bob
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    www.flexxbuy.com - multiple lender customer financing platform for prime to sub-prime consumers.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
      Originally Posted by bobsedge View Post

      Mike,

      Can you share your approximate stats on your emails- more specifically bounce rates and open rates? And how do the stats change as time goes by? Do they get better because you have won over their trust or do they get worse because the message gets a little stale?

      Thanks

      Bob
      Bob,

      I certainly can but they won't mean much to you because, well you aren't me... What I mean by that is you will connect with your list differently than I do because you have your own personality so I'm not quite sure what my stats are going to do for you but I'll show you a small sample.

      Currently I have over 50 different lists in a variety of different niches that all produce a profit anywhere from $250 - $500 a month each. (you do the math)

      This is a sample from just one list...

      I get a bounce rate of 1.2% on average from this one list; an 18.4% open rate; and an 8.9% clickthrough.

      Now I don't know what you would do with that... kinda useless when you don't have list size etc... which I will never reveal publicly to anyone and for good reason.

      Mike Hill
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      • Profile picture of the author bobsedge
        Originally Posted by Mike Hill View Post

        Bob,

        I certainly can but they won't mean much to you because, well you aren't me... What I mean by that is you will connect with your list differently than I do because you have your own personality so I'm not quite sure what my stats are going to do for you but I'll show you a small sample.

        Currently I have over 50 different lists in a variety of different niches that all produce a profit anywhere from $250 - $500 a month each. (you do the math)

        This is a sample from just one list...

        I get a bounce rate of 1.2% on average from this one list; an 18.4% open rate; and an 8.9% clickthrough.

        Now I don't know what you would do with that... kinda useless when you don't have list size etc... which I will never reveal publicly to anyone and for good reason.

        Mike Hill
        Mike,

        I think this is relevant for three reasons.

        First, your numbers prove how successful nurturing a list can be despite the relative inefficiencies. In other words, so what if most of the list doesn't respond, those that do make up a business. You can only speak to those that want to listen.

        Second, it is a numbers game so its extremely important to make your conversions as efficient as possible. If you convert at 15%, work hard to make it 20 or 25% because that relates directly to revenue. And there are ways of improving conversions. It just requires testing.

        And third, even for someone like you who is an expert at this, there is a great deal of waste. Not everyone has 50 lists, so you can either aspire to get them or work on getting more eyeballs (or ears) to take in your message more often.

        Bob
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        www.flexxbuy.com - multiple lender customer financing platform for prime to sub-prime consumers.
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        • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
          Originally Posted by bobsedge View Post

          Mike,

          I think this is relevant for three reasons.

          First, your numbers prove how successful nurturing a list can be despite the relative inefficiencies. In other words, so what if most of the list doesn't respond, those that do make up a business. You can only speak to those that want to listen.

          Second, it is a numbers game so its extremely important to make your conversions as efficient as possible. If you convert at 15%, work hard to make it 20 or 25% because that relates directly to revenue. And there are ways of improving conversions. It just requires testing.

          And third, even for someone like you who is an expert at this, there is a great deal of waste. Not everyone has 50 lists, so you can either aspire to get them or work on getting more eyeballs (or ears) to take in your message more often.

          Bob

          Oh of course I understand all that just didn't see the point of someone else looking at partial data is all...


          Cheers!

          Mike Hill
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