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Is this copying brilliant marketing or just a cheap s**t rip off?

by NyNyDanDan
19 replies
This is internet marketing - we learn from others, we copy the success of others, we strive to be as successful as - or even more successful than - others.

But, at what point is the line crossed from copying or emulating someone else's success to a flat out, unabashed rip off? Does this line even exist?

I'm sure most everyone reading this is familiar with "Double Your Dating" by David D'Angelo. And I'm sure then that you also know that David D is the pseudonym of IM marketing genius EP (I will only use this marketer's initials in this post).

I've heard EP's explanation of how he came up with the title for his book as well as the pseudonym he chose to market the book - firstly the name of the book says it all - Double Your Dating - tells you exactly what the book is all about and the repetitiveness of the letter "D" makes a memorable impression: Double Your Dating by David D'Angelo - this in my opinion is shear brilliance.

OK, here's why I'm bringing all this up: following EP's work as my example, I've written a book for men about how to attract women on dating web sites. There are THOUSANDS of dating and hook-up web sites out there with millions upon millions of men on those sites. And reading the stuff guys post on dating forums and YT video comments, clearly there's a market to teach guys how to best present and "sell" themselves to the ladies online.

My materials are strictly to teach men the strategies of attracting women online - not in "the real world" but rather 100% dating and hook-up site attraction. I teach men how to attract and connect with more women online.

Everything you've just read is the "groundwork" - now comes my real question and again, would I be emulating someone else's success or just ripping that someone off:

I've secured the domain DoubleYourDigitalDating.com - because my book is 100% dating site attraction it's got that word "digital" in there. So what if I titled my book "Double Your Digital Dating"? And what if I market the book under the pseudonym Denny D'Marco? Put it all together you got: Double Your Digital Dating by Denny D'Marco? The book subtitle is: What every man needs to know about how to attract women on dating web sites.

Have I just emulated success? Have I just blatantly ripped off EP? What say ye??

I have TREMENDOUS respect for the WF community and am exceedingly curious to hear your opinion...
#brilliant #cheap #copying #dating niche #double your dating #eben pagan #ebook #internet marketing #marketing #rip
  • Profile picture of the author stoltingmediagroup
    Originally Posted by NyNyDanDan View Post

    Have I just emulated success? Have I just blatantly ripped off EP? What say ye??
    If I market the book under the pseudonym Denny D’Marco? Put it all together you got: Double Your Digital Dating by Denny D’Marco?
    Should you actually launch this,
    I believe that the end result of that just "might be" a judge deciding as to whether you have either:
    "emulated success", or "blatantly ripped off EP".

    In the end it's all a lawyers game isn't it?

    Speaking of which, you may want to consult one who's knowledgeable in these matters,
    and have him/her on retainer just in "case". <--- See what I did there.
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    • Profile picture of the author zacharybarden
      Originally Posted by stoltingmediagroup View Post

      Should you actually launch this,
      I believe that the end result of that just "might be" a judge deciding as to whether you have either:
      "emulated success", or "blatantly ripped off EP".

      In the end it's all a lawyers game isn't it?

      Speaking of which, you may want to consult one who's knowledgeable in these matters,
      and have him/her on retainer just in "case". <--- See what I did there.
      A big part of brand consulting is liability and legal responsibility training. This definitely crosses into infringement territory. There are ways around this, and I'd gladly walk you through it privately, so feel free to message me.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve B
    This is just my opinion, but I think you have crossed the line with what you're proposing to do. Both the title and the pseudonym together leave little doubt that you are trying to ride the coat tails of some else's success.

    Ask yourself this: could someone in the men's dating niche be confused by your product and think they were getting the original "Double Your Dating?" I would say "yes" there is a good chance for confusion. Confusion is not a good thing.

    Whether you would ever get sued or even accused of anything - no one can really say. If you really want to do this, why don't you ask Eben what he thinks about it?

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author zdebx
    That does look a bit too similar, so just to avoid any future confusions/problems, I think it would be a better idea just to come up with a different name and at least you'll know that there won't be any potential issues with it.

    However, having said that, unless Double Your Dating got nothing more useful to do, they probably wouldn't even care about your digital copy of their brand...
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  • Profile picture of the author NyNyDanDan
    In the interest of FULL disclosure - I didn't want to mention this in my original post lest I be accused of "shilling" my book but... my book is currently out there but NOT as DYDD by DD. I title the book "The Attract Her Factor" under the pseudonym Mack Baxter. So, ya got: The Attract Her Factor by Mack Baxter. Kinda along the lines of how EP named his book and his pseudonym: lots of short "a" sounds and words that end with "er". Anyhow, I do own DYDD.com which is resting comfortably in my GoDaddy account. At this point I just wanted to throw the idea out to the WF community to gather thoughts and opinions...
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  • Profile picture of the author Janice Sperry
    I think you are putting too much weight into the title and author names. Yes they can make a difference but they won't help at all without excellent marketing to back them up.

    I would leave your title and pen name as they are and not switch to the DYDD by DD. How would you like it if someone started marketing a book called The Attract Her Factors by Max Bacter?
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    • Profile picture of the author Tom Addams
      Originally Posted by Janice Sperry View Post

      I think you are putting too much weight into the title and author names. Yes they can make a difference but they won't help at all without excellent marketing to back them up.

      I would leave your title and pen name as they are and not switch to the DYDD by DD. How would you like it if someone started marketing a book called The Attract Her Factors by Max Bacter?
      This.

      As usual, Janice hits the nail on the head.
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  • Profile picture of the author Randall Magwood
    I wouldn't roll with the "DoubleYourDigitalDating". Even if EP comes and files some kind of lawsuit or complaint... do you really want to deal with all the headache of that?

    I personally would go FAR left with the idea. Instead of DoubleYourDigitalDating... i'd revert back to my hood days and create a niche site (and book series) called:

    "Brothas...here's how to date dem white girls"

    Website name: http://www.datedemwhitegirls.com

    Niche: Black men who love white women

    (forgive me anyone if i offended you here.)

    Do you know of another dating marketer who has such a product? I just searched on Google, i see none. How do you feel about this idea?
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    • Profile picture of the author NyNyDanDan
      Originally Posted by Randall Magwood View Post

      I wouldn't roll with the "DoubleYourDigitalDating". Even if EP comes and files some kind of lawsuit or complaint... do you really want to deal with all the headache of that?

      I personally would go FAR left with the idea. Instead of DoubleYourDigitalDating... i'd revert back to my hood days and create a niche site (and book series) called:

      "Brothas...here's how to date dem white girls"

      Website name: http://www.datedemwhitegirls.com

      Niche: Black men who love white women

      (forgive me anyone if i offended you here.)

      Do you know of another dating marketer who has such a product? I just searched on Google, i see none. How do you feel about this idea?
      I have a POF.com advertising account where I run banner ad campaigns. Their top advertising acct manager - Ben - one time in an email exchange had told me that dating from one ethnic demographic to the next can be quite different. IOW, an ad campaign that would appeal to the Caucasian male may not appeal to the black male and vice versa. Because I'm white Ben had suggested that I stick with advertising to that demo since that's where I can personally relate. So, to answer your question, I wouldn't even know how to advertise to black men to get white women. As it is, that angle is not right for me or for my training. Now, if you'd like to collaborate on something...I'm listening :-)
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    • Profile picture of the author StephenGB
      Originally Posted by Randall Magwood View Post

      I wouldn't roll with the "DoubleYourDigitalDating". Even if EP comes and files some kind of lawsuit or complaint... do you really want to deal with all the headache of that?

      I personally would go FAR left with the idea. Instead of DoubleYourDigitalDating... i'd revert back to my hood days and create a niche site (and book series) called:

      "Brothas...here's how to date dem white girls"

      Website name: http://www.datedemwhitegirls.com

      Niche: Black men who love white women

      (forgive me anyone if i offended you here.)

      Do you know of another dating marketer who has such a product? I just searched on Google, i see none. How do you feel about this idea?
      Would you recommend using photos of your enlarged penis to attract dem girls.
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  • Profile picture of the author I am Jacqui
    I did a book writing course last year - Publish a Book and Grow Rich - and from what I remember your possible book title - Double your Digitial Dating is actually fine along with the DD name. Hope this helps.
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  • Profile picture of the author onSubie
    A title is not copyright so naming your book "Double Your Digital Dating" has no copyright implications to the other book's similar title.

    If he trademarked the name and product he could go after you for trademark infringement if he thinks your product and marketing could cause confusing in the marketplace and harm to his product. But only if he has actually registered the trademark.

    Legally you are probably okay and ethically it is you who have to look at yourself in the mirror- no one else.

    If you have real legal concerns, best to consult a lawyer.

    If you are looking for opinions here you will find many on both sides of the line.
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      If he trademarked the name and product
      Which EP did - and anyone could find it with a simple trademark search. Of course he trademarked that name!

      You can't avoid trademark infringement by adding a word (digital) in the middle or similar trick. You can get by with it - until you are challenged or find yourself headed to court.

      You don't automatically get a warning....anyone using a trademarked name with one word inserted on a site with the same subject...takes their own chances.

      Copying is never brilliant - it's 'also ran'.
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  • Profile picture of the author nicolasmd2112
    Why not name your book, "Triple Your Digital Dating" or "Digital Dating x2/x3", or even, "Digital Dating Success".

    I understand that you want to replicate the success of a super profitable and well established title/format, but in the end wouldn't it be better to create something more original for branding purposes?

    Uniqueness comes with many benefits. It would suck if your future customers came across both your product, and EP's product and decided his over yours because it's more renown, older, and has more reviews. This happens, whether or not your titles are similar, but You needn't make unnecessary competition where it doesn't need to be. Then there's also the possible trademark infringement problem.
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  • Profile picture of the author discrat
    Originally Posted by NyNyDanDan View Post

    This is internet marketing – we learn from others, we copy the success of others, we strive to be as successful as – or even more successful than – others.

    But, at what point is the line crossed from copying or emulating someone else’s success to a flat out, unabashed rip off? Does this line even exist?

    I’m sure most everyone reading this is familiar with “Double Your Dating” by David D’Angelo. And I’m sure then that you also know that David D is the pseudonym of IM marketing genius EP (I will only use this marketer’s initials in this post).

    I’ve heard EP’s explanation of how he came up with the title for his book as well as the pseudonym he chose to market the book – firstly the name of the book says it all – Double Your Dating – tells you exactly what the book is all about and the repetitiveness of the letter “D” makes a memorable impression: Double Your Dating by David D’Angelo – this in my opinion is shear brilliance.

    OK, here’s why I’m bringing all this up: following EP’s work as my example, I’ve written a book for men about how to attract women on dating web sites. There are THOUSANDS of dating and hook-up web sites out there with millions upon millions of men on those sites. And reading the stuff guys post on dating forums and YT video comments, clearly there’s a market to teach guys how to best present and “sell” themselves to the ladies online.

    My materials are strictly to teach men the strategies of attracting women online – not in “the real world” but rather 100% dating and hook-up site attraction. I teach men how to attract and connect with more women online.

    Everything you’ve just read is the “groundwork” – now comes my real question and again, would I be emulating someone else’s success or just ripping that someone off:

    I’ve secured the domain DoubleYourDigitalDating.com – because my book is 100% dating site attraction it’s got that word “digital” in there. So what if I titled my book “Double Your Digital Dating”? And what if I market the book under the pseudonym Denny D’Marco? Put it all together you got: Double Your Digital Dating by Denny D’Marco? The book subtitle is: What every man needs to know about how to attract women on dating web sites.

    Have I just emulated success? Have I just blatantly ripped off EP? What say ye??

    I have TREMENDOUS respect for the WF community and am exceedingly curious to hear your opinion...
    As Im scurrying about my home office, fumbling to find GoDaddy so I can secure DoubleYourOnlineDating.com and start my own Dating Book to help Men double their dating from Online Dating Sites

    j/k
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    • Profile picture of the author onSubie
      Originally Posted by discrat View Post

      As Im scurrying about my home office, fumbling to find GoDaddy so I can secure DoubleYourOnlineDating.com and start my own Dating Book to help Men double their dating from Online Dating Sites

      j/k


      I'm starting a business "Dating Your Double Online" for those who have so much self-love they wish to date their doppelganger...


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    • Profile picture of the author stoltingmediagroup
      Originally Posted by discrat View Post

      As Im scurrying about my home office, fumbling to find GoDaddy so I can secure DoubleYourOnlineDating.com and start my own Dating Book to help Men double their dating from Online Dating Sites

      j/k
      I wouldn't recommend it.

      You just might be infringing on my "TrippleYourOfflineMating.com"

      "When taking home just one date tonight is simply not enough!"
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      Arnold Stolting - Stolting Media Group
      "I LOVE The Song! The Vibe Is Positive And Firm!" - Kymani Marley. (Son of Bob Marley).
      "Very High Quality!" Jeremy Harding - Manager / Producer. Sean Paul.
      "They Are FANTASTIC!" - Willie Crawford.
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  • Profile picture of the author ChrisNosal
    Banned
    Ripping someone off is just copying, which is what 99% of IMers do.

    For example, if Eben says, "use red because that draws customers", and you just blindly follow, you're copying.

    If you UNDERSTAND the underlying psychology of every decision your making, you can visualize the effect that the cause (using the red) will have on the reader.

    For example, you know how they will feel if you use red, versus how they will feel if you use blue, because you're not just doing it because someone told you to - you UNDERSTAND the psychology behind what you're doing, and creating your own materials based on that information.

    Ask yourself why you're doing what you're doing.

    If you can explain the psychology, you're creating.

    If you're saying, "because they did it", then you're copying.

    Hope that helps!
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  • Profile picture of the author ChrisNosal
    Banned
    Even though your title may stand on its own, David D. is the most well known guy out there, and because of this, people are just going to immediately recognize you as a rip off, like if someone had a cartoon character called "Buddy Bunny" who looked like Bugs - it'd stand on its own, but after you copy a well-known image, it just looks like a cheap rip-off.
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