Wow..... What Happened to This Forum?

248 replies
After the new change over, I have rarely even tried to do any type of business on this forum, what happened here, it seems that all the people that used to post here have moved on and it almost seems very spammy, or am I just seeing things?

NO offence meant to anyone.
#forum #happened #wow
  • Profile picture of the author Czelly
    I believe that this forum is getting activer every day! Over 750k members and a lot of posts per day! No wonder that there will be spam too but in my opinion is the WF still an awesome marketing place!
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  • Profile picture of the author @tjr
    The most common posters are gone, replaced by new "usual suspects", that plus an ownership change bring about some changes.
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    • Profile picture of the author The Niche Man
      Judging by the questions of late, it seems to be attracting more ..."I need to hurry up and make money but I have little or no skills" marketers than before. Maybe that's why the spammy vibe is more present now.

      My guess is many of the regulars have moved on out of frustration and no new challenges. Plus, perhaps from not profiting like they used to from their efforts here.

      However, it's still the go to place for newbies who want to learn and the experienced marketers who like to share, inform and help. Despite the changes and new challenges.
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  • Profile picture of the author wloggy
    As I am seeing then having 2 reasons, they are, too many spammy questions on forums and 2 strong internet marketing forums increasing strongly, they are www.digitalpoint.com and www.webmastersun.com they are attracting more internet marketers and webmasters from search engines.
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    • Profile picture of the author jasondinner
      Originally Posted by wloggy View Post

      As I am seeing then having 2 reasons, they are, too many spammy questions on forums and 2 strong internet marketing forums increasing strongly, they are www.digitalpoint.com and Webmaster Sun - The Largest Internet Marketing Forum & Marketplace they are attracting more internet marketers and webmasters from search engines.
      I took a peek at the webmastersun forum and the post quality even worse than what's been going on in here - by a factor of 10!!

      Didn't look at digital point yet, but have been there in the past and they aren't that bad.

      But, unless you're dealing with a paid forum like those affiliate marketing forums and any other paid to enter forums, the quality of the posts will stay where they are because of the amount of newbies who are coming through the system.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tom Addams
    It's been discussed a bit lately, and no, you're not seeing things. As someone rightly mentioned above, the issue evolves out of the influx of new IM entrants, and it's to be expected. Everyone has to learn. Unfortunately, an environment where basic learning goes on, holds little appeal to some veterans. I think the solution would be a mastermind group with a relatively high-ticket. Unlike the War Room it would be a place to profit from education, not list building. Just my opinion, of course!

    Tom
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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
      Originally Posted by Tom Addams View Post

      . Unlike the War Room it would be a place to profit from education, not list building. Just my opinion, of course!
      The WR isn't about list building. Required opt-ins are not allowed in order to download things people offer.

      Mark
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      • Profile picture of the author joseph7384
        Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

        The WR isn't about list building. Required opt-ins are not allowed in order to download things people offer.

        Mark
        Oh but many members do use it for list building, regardless of the required opt-in.
        The norm is that you are taken to a page with the promised product but 98% of times there is also an opt-in on that same page where if you want the really good stuff you can opt-in.
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      • Profile picture of the author Tom Addams
        Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

        The WR isn't about list building. Required opt-ins are not allowed in order to download things people offer.

        Mark
        I concede defeat. The War Room is, indeed, not a means of frenzied list building. On the contrary, all of the generous information, hammered in our direction on a daily basis, is literally delivered out of pure altruism. I'm not sure what I was thinking, to be honest.

        Cheers,

        Tom
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    • Profile picture of the author TheGMa
      Originally Posted by Tom Addams View Post

      It's been discussed a bit lately, and no, you're not seeing things. As someone rightly mentioned above, the issue evolves out of the influx of new IM entrants, and it's to be expected. Everyone has to learn. Unfortunately, an environment where basic learning goes on, holds little appeal to some veterans. I think the solution would be a mastermind group with a relatively high-ticket. Unlike the War Room it would be a place to profit from education, not list building. Just my opinion, of course!

      Tom
      Thanks for that one, Tom.

      I'm not new to IM by any means (almost 16 years); I'm still making money on a site I haven't touched in years, albeit only $50 to $100/mo. Worked on the site for a couple of weeks this January and increased the income to close to $200/mo. It's a content-rich how-to and educational site. Am currently waiting for a contract from the company to bring their site into the 21st century.

      BUT, I've been out of the loop long enough that I need a refresher, and this is a great place for that. I'm picking up a lot of ideas, and using the SE to find posts on areas I need to re-learn is working very well.

      I've been looking forward to joining the War Room and was disappointed to hear you say their concentration is mostly devoted to list building - unless the methods required to build lists also involve building traffic and click-throughs...
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      • Profile picture of the author Tom Addams
        Originally Posted by TheGMa View Post

        Thanks for that one, Tom.

        I've been looking forward to joining the War Room and was disappointed to hear you say their concentration is mostly devoted to list building - unless the methods required to build lists also involve building traffic and click-throughs...
        You're welcome, TheGMa.

        I've actually just spent 15 minutes writing a reply and giving my thoughts on the War Room. Having reread them, I decided to hit delete as opposed to "Submit Reply," figuring, given the content of my reply, it was the more prudent thing to do. All I'll say is this: you'll find some information of worth inside the War Room. In my opinion, however, the information is aimed at newcomers, or those wishing to profit from them.

        Sorry I can't be of more help!

        Cheers,

        Tom
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        • Profile picture of the author TheGMa
          Originally Posted by Tom Addams View Post

          You're welcome, TheGMa.

          I've actually just spent 15 minutes writing a reply and giving my thoughts on the War Room. Having reread them, I decided to hit delete as opposed to "Submit Reply," figuring, given the content of my reply, it was the more prudent thing to do. All I'll say is this: you'll find some information of worth inside the War Room. In my opinion, however, the information is aimed at newcomers, or those wishing to profit from them.

          Sorry I can't be of more help!

          Cheers,

          Tom
          Grin. My two favorite buttons are Delete and Backspace. Cool reply. Will start following your posts.

          Thanks for the info ref the War Room. My contract should be coming on Monday so I can put aside the money to join a worthy private area in an IM forum and have permission to state the name of the site I'm working on for the corp.

          In the meantime, I'm remembering and learning by teaching in this forum what I've learned over my years of webwork and IM. Forgot the part about learning by teaching.
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          • Profile picture of the author Tom Addams
            Originally Posted by TheGMa View Post

            Grin. My two favorite buttons are Delete and Backspace.
            Haha Same here - mine are worn out!

            Originally Posted by TheGMa View Post

            Grin. My two favorite buttons are Delete and Backspace. Cool reply. Will start following your posts.

            Thanks for the info ref the War Room. My contract should be coming on Monday so I can put aside the money to join a worthy private area in an IM forum and have permission to state the name of the site I'm working on for the corp.

            In the meantime, I'm remembering and learning by teaching in this forum what I've learned over my years of webwork and IM. Forgot the part about learning by teaching.
            Glad I could help - be it a slightly "hands tied behind my back and mouth gagged and mumbling around duct tape" reply. Ahhhh, dear. lol I'll be sure to keep an eye out for your posts, too!

            Cheers,

            Tom
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            • Profile picture of the author TheGMa
              Mumbling around the duct tape?

              Lordy, Tom - almost splurted on that one! Still chuckling.

              Off to find a good webwork forum. Dang HTML5 and CSS and Java scripts. I built the big site all in tables which, contrary to current opinion, work just fine on cell phones and tablets.
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  • Profile picture of the author clockface
    "how do i wipe my ass and watch tv?"

    "how do ibecome a trillionaire"?

    "how do I get traffic"

    "I am selling a course on IM to mkae $250,000 per year but forst how do I promote it online?"

    "Please,,,,i give you $10, you give me $100,000 per year.."

    " Iam down to my last $10 , what do YOU think i should do?"

    W.T.F. is this crap?

    *)(*()(*()(&(^*(^*))(&&()&!!!!!

    Never ends. Kids, newbies, people that have no common sense yet want to make $250,000+ per annum...

    Who cares!
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Originally Posted by Steve Wells View Post

    After the new change over, I have rarely even tried to do any type of business on this forum, what happened here, it seems that all the people that used to post here have moved on and it almost seems very spammy, or am I just seeing things?

    NO offence meant to anyone.
    This forum sucks because mods don't have a clue about the sub-forum topics.

    The SEO forum is PURE CRAP, 3rd world spammers selling SEO & asking ignorant questions like: Can You Rank in Google Without Links?

    This forum is full of that type of shit & it's getting old.
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    • Profile picture of the author agmccall
      There are times when you look at the thread titles on the first page and there is nothing you want to click into. Just the other day there were 3 threads of the first page all of which were a variation of "What would you do with $x.xx" Then you have the signature whores who dredge up 5 year old threads by posting a useless comment.

      There used to be a time when the MOD's were active but now the only way something happens is if something gets reported and members are starting to get tired of that.

      The warrior forum changed from a community to a business. When it was a community it made money for the previous owner, but the focus was on the community. Now it is like Target, Walmart, or any other big box business. They do not care who comes thru the door as long as they come.

      al
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      • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
        Originally Posted by agmccall View Post

        There are times when you look at the thread titles on the first page and there is nothing you want to click into. Just the other day there were 3 threads of the first page all of which were a variation of "What would you do with .xx" Then you have the signature whores who dredge up 5 year old threads by posting a useless comment.

        There used to be a time when the MOD's were active but now the only way something happens is if something gets reported and members are starting to get tired of that.

        The warrior forum changed from a community to a business. When it was a community it made money for the previous owner, but the focus was on the community. Now it is like Target, Walmart, or any other big box business. They do not care who comes thru the door as long as they come.

        al
        I have the same reaction as your first sentence. It's so difficult to find something I *want* to comment on. Most of the questions are so basic or so pie in the sky it's just not worth responding.

        Even in 2012 the forum was still community-based. I saw the change happening in 2013 and by the end of that year it had "matured" into a free-for-all because everyone had learned it existed.

        Except for a few experienced people who enjoy a little masochistic behavior, most of the people who know what they're doing moved on to private Facebook groups and small, niche-based, paid forums.
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        • Profile picture of the author Claire Koch
          yeah i saw a lot of experienced people move away, way to go loyal warriors! So experienced people who care about this forum is are masochists? eye yi yi.

          Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan View Post

          I have the same reaction as your first sentence. It's so difficult to find something I *want* to comment on. Most of the questions are so basic or so pie in the sky it's just not worth responding.

          Even in 2012 the forum was still community-based. I saw the change happening in 2013 and by the end of that year it had "matured" into a free-for-all because everyone had learned it existed.

          Except for a few experienced people who enjoy a little masochistic behavior, most of the people who know what they're doing moved on to private Facebook groups and small, niche-based, paid forums.
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      • Originally Posted by agmccall View Post

        Just the other day there were 3 threads of the first page all of which were a variation of "What would you do with .xx"
        Yeah the one thing I am learning lately on the forum
        is how to ask the same question in hundreds of different ways.

        This skill just "has" to be helpful somehow in a social environment?


        "Hey there (wink wink).... "What's your name?"

        "May I have your name?"
        "Do you mind if I ask your name?"
        'How may I address you?'
        "What was your name again?"
        "What name do you go by"

        "Oh...., and if I only had $5 to my name, what can I get with that from you?"
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      • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by agmccall View Post


        There used to be a time when the MOD's were active but now the only way something happens is if something gets reported and members are starting to get tired of that.
        I know what you mean.
        You would think they would notice some of the threads in the wrong forums
        when the subject is used in the title in all caps.
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        • Profile picture of the author mikeyman120
          How strange is this. I was just gonna post a new thread titled "Is the warrior forum dead? when I saw this thread. Here is something that I just noticed. About a year ago almost I launched my first major WSO and it did well. It went live and then scrolled off the first page within 12 hours or a day maybe at the most. I just launched a new WSO I thought would do pretty well but only one sale in 3 weeks. After 3 weeks I went to find my WSO by searching each WSO page to see where it was. I thought this was going to take a very long time. It didn't. I found it half way down page 5 after 3 weeks. That tells me the WSO section has slowed down BIG TIME. After 3 weeks I expected to be on page 15 or further.

          Anyone else think the WSO section is slowing down and WSO's are being bumped less and less lately???
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    • Profile picture of the author Turquoise Badger
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      This forum sucks because mods don't have a clue about the sub-forum topics.

      The SEO forum is PURE CRAP, 3rd world spammers selling SEO & asking ignorant questions like: Can You Rank in Google Without Links?

      This forum is full of that type of shit & it's getting old.
      Its probably their rule to have mods who are as inexperienced as those thousands that join and post (crap) on the forum everyday. One of my clients left the forum because a mod deleted a post that he didn't completely read.

      The deleted post was something about FTC and the mod thought that was Hebrew or something alien and deleted it. Apparently they are hiring from those guys who post "I have the skills of a jack ass but want to make a mil a minute". The forum has definitely lost its glory and essence.
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    • Profile picture of the author Nabaleka
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      This forum sucks because mods don't have a clue about the sub-forum topics.

      The SEO forum is PURE CRAP, 3rd world spammers selling SEO & asking ignorant questions like: Can You Rank in Google Without Links?

      This forum is full of that type of shit & it's getting old.
      I am from 3rd World, would you mind specifying which part of the 3rd world because it is a very large world out here.
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      • Profile picture of the author @tjr
        Originally Posted by Nabaleka View Post

        I am from 3rd World, would you mind specifying which part of the 3rd world because it is a very large world out here.
        It could be a variety of people from a variety of 3rd world countries, which is why a specific country wasn't specified.
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        • Profile picture of the author Nabaleka
          Originally Posted by @tjr View Post

          It could be a variety of people from a variety of 3rd world countries, which is why a specific country wasn't specified.
          I would be safe if I did not point fingers.
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          • Profile picture of the author @tjr
            Originally Posted by Nabaleka View Post

            I would be safe if I did not point fingers.
            *thumbs up* proud of you.
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            • Profile picture of the author Kay King
              such a brutal attack on my fellow man. I know that mere mortals could never find it in their heart to forgive me,
              As the guy in the TV commercial says..."I'm lolling here"

              Love ya, Frank - and it's not the banter that put me on edge but the replies to another member who is, from what I've seen over the years, unfailingly polite and undemanding in his posts.

              Maybe we need WF Oscars for best comedic and dramatic performances
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              • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                Banned
                Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                Love ya, Frank - and it's not the banter that put me on edge but the replies to another member who is, from what I've seen over the years, unfailingly polite and undemanding in his posts.
                Well, if they havn't already, he/she should be big enough to engage me directly, if they feel they have been attacked, or maligned in any way. Having a disagreement with someone does not always rise to that level. If they did and quit, then their position obviously was not that strong, unless you want me to believe that I have some incredibly powerful sway over people that leaves them no choice but to buckle from duress. I wish. Also, just because someone posts something that I may find ridiculous in a mild-mannered fashion, I am not going to give them style points simply because they were benign in the way in which it was presented.
                Maybe we need WF Oscars for best comedic and dramatic performances
                "All the world's a stage."

                Cheers. - Frank
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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Nabaleka View Post

        I am from 3rd World, would you mind specifying which part of the 3rd world because it is a very large world out here.
        The part that's spammy.
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  • Profile picture of the author Synnuh
    Then when you do offer solid advice backed by data you get 20 of the same hacks trying to undermine you and keep a newbie confused -- or get them on their list.
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  • Profile picture of the author daftdog
    Originally Posted by Steve Wells View Post

    After the new change over, I have rarely even tried to do any type of business on this forum, what happened here, it seems that all the people that used to post here have moved on and it almost seems very spammy, or am I just seeing things?

    NO offence meant to anyone.
    Again no offence meant either but I do have to agree with you...this is my first post in a while besides a post about a product I am promoting in the WSO section!! It seems there are a load of how do I make money in such and such days all the time...

    Cheers

    Marc
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      The warrior forum changed from a community to a business. When it was a community it made money for the previous owner, but the focus was on the community. Now it is like Target, Walmart, or any other big box business. They do not care who comes thru the door as long as they come.
      That's one of the better descriptions I've seen of what's happening here! That's a good analogy.

      There are not that many posting now who remember the community here before the "WSO affiliate" programs brought in an influx of newbies and before the WF went international rather than US based.

      It's one thing to advise new marketers on how best to utilize Adsese or protect their Paypal account or about sites or blog development, content, etc.

      Now the questions are often about how to get around the rules - how to cheat the systems - and mods let them stand and people keep answering.

      The forum will go on - but the numbers don't lie. The "currently active" numbers are one-half (and sometimes less) what they were one year ago.

      Tom - there have been mastermind groups here in the past - monthly payments - and limited to a small number of people (Alliance ran for years - limit was 100 if I recall - and there was a long waiting list to get in).

      BUT - they were groups for experienced marketers to talk to each other - to compare methods, etc without the constant statics of repetitive basic questions.

      The War Room was the latest - and quite different. Open to anyone who could pay, it required moderation of every thread/post and thus conversations just didn't happen there. It's a repository for old WSOs, 'made for war room' reports - and, yes, rep and list building one way or another.

      I had a revelation this week (personal epiphany? call it what you will) about this forum. I had assumed those who stopped posting here after years of participation were leaving in disgust or anger - and I think I was wrong.

      I think people are leaving out of boredom. The level of self promotion - link promotion - rhetoric and naivete - are unprecedented even for a marketing forum. The repetitive questions (often by the same few people) and nonsensical answers (again, often by the same few people) are snooze worthy.

      It's like a silent movie - lemmings swimming erratically across the screen and a few experts with big nets trolling for them....
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  • Profile picture of the author Manoj V
    Definition of a forum - "A place, meeting, or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged". Air your views and express your ideas freely while following the rules of the forum.

    If you visit a forum only to do business you will never enjoy your time on any forum.

    No offence meant to anyone of course. :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author MarksWineClub
    I think it's just busier, so the good stuff gets a bit watered down so to speak. I still find plenty of good advice here, it just takes a bit longer to find.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jacob Caris
    Don't worry about others too much, use it as a resource and focus on building your business.
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    • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Jacob Caris View Post

      Don't worry about others too much, use it as a resource and focus on building your business.
      Unfortunately, your signature is a perfect example of what's increasingly getting worse. As was your post, meant to do nothing more than get your sig link displayed.

      Cheers. - Frank
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  • Profile picture of the author salegurus
    Not to put all the blame on FL, IMO the problem started when the emphasis shifted from a largely community based forum to a WSO based forum with shoddy controls in place...

    Having said that, the level of moderation was much higher in the past especially when it came to spotting scammers, moving threads to the appropriate forum and so on, now it seems that action is only taken after members have reported threads...

    As far as the quality of posts, well i think anyone with half a brain cell can see that it's at a point now where even my 6Y old would get bored reading through the MF... Half of it is complete nonsense and the other half reads like a fairy tale...

    We can speculate on the root cause of all this but i think Kay has made some good points:


    Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

    There are not that many posting now who remember the community here before the "WSO affiliate" programs brought in an influx of newbies and before the WF went international rather than US based.


    Now the questions are often about how to get around the rules - how to cheat the systems - and mods let them stand and people keep answering.


    I had a revelation this week (personal epiphany? call it what you will) about this forum. I had assumed those who stopped posting here after years of participation were leaving in disgust or anger - and I think I was wrong.

    I think people are leaving out of boredom. The level of self promotion - link promotion - rhetoric and naivete - are unprecedented even for a marketing forum. The repetitive questions (often by the same few people) and nonsensical answers (again, often by the same few people) are snooze worthy.
    The GOOD news is i am seeing more and more pushback from members who have had enough. I see more posts where members are not holding back when it comes to letting the people who (start nonsense posts, ask ridiculous questions, only post to advertise etc) know that we are not going to accept it any longer...


    PS. Also we should give credit to FL for allowing open and honest discussion, no offence to anyone but i doubt that this thread would have been allowed to continue in the past...
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    • Profile picture of the author The Niche Man
      Originally Posted by salegurus View Post


      PS. Also we should give credit to FL for allowing open and honest discussion, no offence to anyone but i doubt that this thread would have been allowed to continue in the past...
      That's a good point. Frankly whenever I see another "What's happened to this Forum" post, I always half-expect them to be nuked before the ink is dry.

      But unlike most host sites Freelancer seems to allow (so far) open discussions that even "criticizes them". Doesn't happen everywhere.

      I think it's smart on their part. Many Companies would pay money to get this kind of "honest/detailed" feedback from experienced marketers. It's Golden!

      Let's pause a second a pray they're listening and act on at least some of the issues before it's too late. - Amen!
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
        Originally Posted by salegurus View Post

        PS. Also we should give credit to FL for allowing open and honest discussion, no offence to anyone but i doubt that this thread would have been allowed to continue in the past...
        [/SIZE]
        Originally Posted by The Niche Man View Post

        That's a good point. Frankly whenever I see another "What's happened to this Forum" post, I always half-expect them to be nuked before the ink is dry.

        But unlike most host sites Freelancer seems to allow (so far) open discussions that even "criticizes them". Doesn't happen everywhere.

        I think it's smart on their part. Many Companies would pay money to get this kind of "honest/detailed" feedback from experienced marketers. It's Golden!

        Let's pause a second a pray they're listening and act on at least some of the issues before it's too late. - Amen!
        I'm going to disagree with that a bit. There have been a LOT of these sort of threads that have been nuked over the past year or so. Now maybe those threads eventually crossed some imaginary line. I do not know.

        But most of these sort of threads still eventually get nuked.

        I don't blame them. But that has happened quite a bit.
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  • Yes it does seem that way, but over time when you keep posting on this forum you will eventually help your fellow members on this forum make money online. That in itself is priceless!

    The other thing is, that it gives you ideas for more product creation ideas when seeing how much members on this forum has not made any money online before, and are trying to spam their affiliate links all over this forum.

    So create your WSO to help forum members use this forum correctly to grow their online business
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    • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Internet Trillionaire View Post

      So create your WSO to help forum members use this forum correctly to grow their online business
      Now - there's a great plan for becoming an Internet Trillionaire if I have ever heard one.

      Cheers. - Frank
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      • Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

        Now - there's a great plan for becoming an Internet Trillionaire if I have ever heard one.

        Cheers. - Frank
        Yes frank, I'm sure if a WSO is created for that purpose, but is better than the rest that are already out there, then it will sell like 'hot cakes' when marketed correctly.

        'WSO to help forum members use this forum correctly to grow YOUR online business in 2015'

        I'm sure I will be thanked many times, by many experienced warrior forum members for this great idea 'Big Guy'
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  • Profile picture of the author Trevor Carr
    I've recently come back to the forum, and I must admit I've enjoyed it.

    I guess there are the obvious spammy posts, but I can also see a lot of experienced marketers whose opinions and advice I value.

    All the best

    Trevor
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  • Profile picture of the author dvm3
    If only an Adblock-like plugin existed which simply hid posts made by users of certain countries.

    No offense of course... just sayin'...
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  • Profile picture of the author The IM Institute
    Time marches on. Every thing changes. Evolve or die. (...and all the rest of them.)
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeff Lenney
    Banned
    If you take a look at the Alexa rankings, you'll notice that the past year traffic in the USA has gone down significantly want traffic from India has gone up significantly…
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  • Profile picture of the author hardworker2013
    Maybe this forum have become more active with more members. But i must admit
    it seems to be taken over by lots of new comers who ask the same questions
    over and over again.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeff Lenney
    Banned
    Just food for thought

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    • Originally Posted by Jeff Lenney View Post

      Just food for thought
      Looks like Canada is in the minority here. Interesting.
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    • Profile picture of the author jasondinner
      Originally Posted by Jeff Lenney View Post

      Just food for thought

      Could be a lot worse lol



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      • Profile picture of the author TommyHara
        Originally Posted by jasondinner View Post

        Could be a lot worse lol



        Alexa is not a good tool to analysis traffic of a website, it is only for newbies installed Alexa rank toolbar.


        Too many same topic titles here and more are not real

        i.e
        How can I earn $250K / $500 / a million dollar from IM
        How to drive traffic to a website
        How to make money online.
        How to get more twitter followers
        how to get more facebook likes
        ....

        WF that?
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        • Profile picture of the author jasondinner
          Originally Posted by TommyHara View Post

          Alexa is not a good tool to analysis traffic of a website, it is only for newbies installed Alexa rank toolbar.


          Too many same topic titles here and more are not real

          i.e
          How can I earn $250K / $500 / a million dollar from IM
          How to drive traffic to a website
          How to make money online.
          How to get more twitter followers
          how to get more facebook likes
          ....

          WF that?
          Yeah I personally use SimilarWeb which tells a totally different story, but I wanted to play along with Alexa

          I don't even use Alexa for any competitive intelligence or really anything for that matter.
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      • Originally Posted by jasondinner View Post

        Could be a lot worse lol



        Don't get pissed off because india has the most visitor to this forum. You use virtual assistants in india all the time when you outsourcing your IM tasks online to create your WSO's.

        It's was only a matter of time before your VA wised up and joined the forum that you use to make your money online.

        Now your VA has stuck all his 300 cousins in a mini van and they all joined the warrior forum. booooooo hooooooo. What now?

        Give the newbies a chance to prove themselves on this forum, they might learn a thing or two from you and do it better than you.

        I don't see you outsourcing your tasks to people in first world countries, because they are the freaking experts who charge way too much for the same service someone in a 3rd world country would do for pennies on the dollar.

        Don't complain now that the quality of the members of this forum are not up to your level of expertise. I'm sure you also started out posting on this forum as a newbie wanting to crack the code of making money online fast
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        • Profile picture of the author jasondinner
          Originally Posted by Internet Trillionaire View Post

          Don't get pissed off because india has the most visitor to this forum. You use virtual assistants in india all the time when you outsourcing your IM tasks online to create your WSO's.

          It's was only a matter of time before your VA wised up and joined the forum that you use to make your money online.

          Now your VA has stuck all his 300 cousins in a mini van and they all joined the warrior forum. booooooo hooooooo. What now?

          Give the newbies a chance to prove themselves on this forum, they might learn a thing or two from you and do it better than you.

          I don't see you outsourcing your tasks to people in first world countries, because they are the freaking experts who charge way too much for the same service someone in a 3rd world country would do for pennies on the dollar.

          Don't complain now that the quality of the members of this forum are not up to your level of expertise. I'm sure you also started out posting on this forum as a newbie wanting to crack the code of making money online fast
          I don't use Indian VA's, create WSO's, or make a dime from this forum - so don't lump me in here with your 300 cousins who are bombarding this forum with their awesomeness.

          I'm not complaining about this place.

          I don't care if the site crashes tomorrow - won't effect my business in any way, shape or form.

          I actively participate in threads when I see the opportunity to provide some sort of value from real personal experience when most people in the thread are just regurgitating crap they've either read in this forum from someone else who's regurgitating crap they got from here or somewhere else.

          I was showing Jeff Lenney, who was trying to illustrate a point about the quality, or lack thereof, in this forum by pointing out the % of traffic from India according to Alexa - that it could be much worse as the other forums that were mentioned earlier in this thread as better alternatives showed much higher percentages of the same type of traffic he may have been alluding to as part of the demise of this forum.

          Next time read through the entire thread before you jump to conclusions about people and lump them all together.

          PS - I don't appreciate you calling me out in a public forum when you should be busy clearing out my email inboxes - which is what I'm paying you $3/hour for. So get back to work!!!
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                • Profile picture of the author jasondinner
                  Originally Posted by Internet Trillionaire View Post


                  If you mean the hocus pocus mind games and stealth hypnosis so called experienced marketers like you use on people to buy your products or services. Then you are right! No I don't want to use black magic, which is what the marketing world uses to sell products.

                  The truth sells more products anyway, without having to use magic pill tripwires, squeeze pages and all sorts of nonsense the marketing world teaches to pay monthly services for.

                  Tricking someone into buying a product that they need, is still tricking them.
                  The only thing that is hocus pocus is the sense your'e trying to make...
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                          • Profile picture of the author Ryan David
                            I don't think the warrior forum is any better or worse than it was last year or 5 years ago.

                            I think the forum went downhill with the "Thanks" button or at least somewhere around that time. It created this gigantic circle of people thanking each other and building up "credibility". It got to the point where there were a handful of people with 10K+ posts entering threads and talking about the same stuff they always talk about. In other words, it got VERY repetitive and boring and that's when I kinda tuned out.

                            Sure, back when I started in 04 or 05', there were people like John Reese, Frank Kern, Mike Filsaime, Jeff Walker, Andy Jenkins, etc ALL posting in the warrior forum. I don't think that made it special necessarily, but (if I'm not mistaken) they all seemed to leave around the same time. People paid more attention to the "regulars" who were posting 50+ times a day and less to the marketers that came in and just sprinkled in their knowledge.
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                            • Profile picture of the author Cali16
                              Originally Posted by Internet Trillionaire View Post

                              You expect people to buy products from you?
                              Pot. Kettle. Black.
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                            • Profile picture of the author Sid Hale
                              I've been reading this thread off and on most of the day.

                              Thought about adding my 2 cents, but it seems that nerves have become a little frayed and the original topic is no longer the focus.

                              You guys continue to kick butt.
                              I'll find someplace where the sexual frustrations and/or egos aren't coming into play.
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                              • Profile picture of the author jasondinner
                                Originally Posted by Sid Hale View Post

                                I've been reading this thread off and on most of the day.

                                Thought about adding my 2 cents, but it seems that nerves have become a little frayed and the original topic is no longer the focus.

                                You guys continue to kick butt.
                                I'll find someplace where the sexual frustrations and/or egos aren't coming into play.
                                Yeah it happens sometimes when people who don't know how to read entire threads and don't know what they're talking about start spewing out vomit.

                                Sometimes things can get a little ugly
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                                • Profile picture of the author @tjr
                                  Originally Posted by jasondinner View Post

                                  Sometimes things can get a little ugly
                                  It only takes one (bigger) person to make it stop.
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                                  • Profile picture of the author jasondinner
                                    Originally Posted by @tjr View Post

                                    It only takes one (bigger) person to make it stop.
                                    Yeah I stopped, see bottom of page 2.

                                    I didn't feel like being the bigger person, especially when I was falsely being accused and attacked for merely contributing to a thread.

                                    Maybe you should read the thread, then take your own advice
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                                    • Profile picture of the author @tjr
                                      Originally Posted by jasondinner View Post

                                      Yeah I stopped, see bottom of page 2.

                                      I didn't feel like being the bigger person, especially when I was falsely being accused and attacked for merely contributing to a thread.

                                      Maybe you should read the thread, then take your own advice
                                      The response my quote was pulled from was a backhanded insult in itself. But you'll have to find your next fight elsewhere, sweetie.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tim_Carter
    Yeah this forum has gotten to the point that it is nearly worthless to me. Back when it was a community I probably spent two to four hours a day participating (helping others and asking questions that were related to said forum) Now maybe twice a month for a few minutes to see if anything has changed.

    By looking at the active visitors count in the main and WSO forums the numbers are down 50 - 75 percent from a couple of years ago.

    I agree with what James Campbell said at the end of his post. We can only hope.
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    • Profile picture of the author Oggyoi
      Too many people selling poor services and happy to scam buyers, there are people on the black hat forums begging people to sell aged accounts for this forum, I wonder why ?....

      Sad to see how downhill this forum has dropped.
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    • Profile picture of the author forthright
      Originally Posted by Tim_Carter View Post

      Yeah this forum has gotten to the point that it is nearly worthless to me. Back when it was a community I probably spent two to four hours a day participating

      So we all agree that this forum is no longer a community. Only full of people pushing scammy biz opp offers and preying on idiot newbies. So where are there communities these days with less spam and more intelligent conversations? Where do we go now?
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      • Profile picture of the author salegurus
        Originally Posted by forthright View Post

        So where are there communities these days with less spam and more intelligent conversations? Where do we go now?
        Most if not all the bigger "Free to join" IM forums all have the same problem... I say IM forums because all the non IM forums that i frequent, Music,Photography etc don't have these problems because money is not a factor and you know what they say about money...

        There are "elite" forums with hefty joining fees and limited access but ive never really researched any of them...

        I can tell you that when WF had a joining fee it seemed to discourage most of the riff raff (Unwashed Masses as Frank calls them) and i remember a downturn in spam also but it lasted only a month or so... My guess is because the level of new signups dropped quite a bit...

        Personally i would have no problem paying a joining fee if it helped to raise the standards around here ...
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        • Profile picture of the author kilgore
          Originally Posted by salegurus View Post

          Most if not all the bigger "Free to join" IM forums all have the same problem... I say IM forums because all the non IM forums that i frequent, Music,Photography etc don't have these problems because money is not a factor and you know what they say about money...
          I can't really speak to other IM forums, but I definitely agree about other non-IM forums not being like this. That said, I'd push back a little on what you say about money not being a factor on those forums. It's not that what you say isn't true, but I'd suggest that money isn't a factor on those other forums because those other forum owners and moderators don't let it become one.

          For instance, I frequent a lot of tech forums and one might easily imagine a bunch of consultants, software companies or other IT professionals using those forums to promote their own products and services. But they don't. Most likely not because they don't want to, but because they can't. Signatures aren't allowed. There are no WSOs or other equivalents. So if you're looking to advertise your services you either (a) buy ads on the site or (b) go elsewhere.

          The problem with the WF is it tries to be two things at once: an IM marketplace and a help forum. The problem is that without any clear separation between the two the forum gets dominated by masses of people whose primary interest is selling and for whom actually being helpful and providing quality contributions to the forum is an afterthought at best. It's not to say that there aren't helpful people here. And it's not to say that everyone who uses the forum to market isn't contributing meaningfully. But those people are the minority as far as I'm concerned.

          It's probably true that the tech forums I frequent would have a larger quantity of posts and responses if they followed the WF's lead and mixed marketing into their forums. But the quality would surely suffer. And ultimately on a forum, the quality of responses matters much, much more than the quantity of responses. It's a lesson that I think the WF would do well to heed.
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  • Profile picture of the author RemyMartin
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    • Profile picture of the author professorrosado
      Well, at one time, the Warrior Forum was but a babe in the marketplace of forums. It took time to build it up to to the place we all are fond of. That leadership and vision has passed the baton to another. Simply, the forum must go on.

      How it does that is up to the new ownership and us.

      Many see more spammy posts - I see less experienced IMers posting.
      Many see less moderation - I see "let's see how the forum develops itself".
      Many miss the past community - I am trying to help build a new one.

      Bottom line: the Warrior Forum is no longer what it used to be, but it was forged by people like you and me - trying to learn new things and share with those who are interested.

      It is now we who will become the "elders" of this new "community" in a few years from now. Internet Marketing is not going away and I dare say, neither is this forum or its ideal.

      The question is, what will be your place within it? What part of this community will you help forge?

      If you don't like "all" the spammy posts, then fill up the forum with YOUR quality posts! Then we all will say, "hmmm..it's getting to look like the good 'ol days around here!"
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  • Profile picture of the author writeaway
    People are still making lots of money off this forum. Change is your friend. Remember that.
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  • Profile picture of the author Curtis2011
    Originally Posted by Steve Wells View Post

    After the new change over, I have rarely even tried to do any type of business on this forum, what happened here, it seems that all the people that used to post here have moved on and it almost seems very spammy, or am I just seeing things?

    NO offence meant to anyone.
    I've noticed this too. It seems there's been a huge increase in forum posts in broken english asking very basic questions.

    Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

    The WR isn't about list building. Required opt-ins are not allowed in order to download things people offer.

    Mark
    You aren't fooling anyone. We all know it exists for the posters there to build their lists. Just because they give away some crappy freebie that they outsourced to some guy that took 3 hours to throw it together, does not mean they are actually there to "help" people. I've seen so much regurgitated content in there given away for free over and over again that there's almost nothing new to be learned in there after you've lurked for a little while.

    I'd say about 95% of the posts in there are giving away "freebies" that are loaded with affiliate links and links to the OP's own product sales funnel.

    Maybe a tiny 5% or less are actually just posts there to help people without trying to sell something.
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  • Profile picture of the author affiliatewealth
    Wow , most of the posts are pretty much saying this place is now C**P filled with nothing but spam, no decent advice, and run by idiots, so what can we do to change this??

    If what is written above is right, where are all the serious Internet marketers going or gone?

    I have no right to say anything negative as i only joined this site recently but its getting a hammering in this thread.
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    • Profile picture of the author writeaway
      Originally Posted by affiliatewealth View Post

      Wow , most of the posts are pretty much saying this place is now C**P filled with nothing but spam, no decent advice, and run by idiots, so what can we do to change this??

      If what is written above is right, where are all the serious Internet marketers going or gone?

      I have no right to say anything negative as i only joined this site recently but its getting a hammering in this thread.
      Don't let the negativity confuse you...

      WF is still the best place on the Internet for all levels of IM

      If you are focused on high level IM, there are forums for that

      If you are focused on blackhat, there are forums for that

      If you are a complete newbie, there are forums for that

      ALL of those forums don't get as much traffic as WF

      WF *IS* the only choice across the board for ALL skill levels.

      Don't let negative people distract you from the value of this place.

      People still make GOOD MONEY from the WF
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      • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
        Banned
        Originally Posted by writeaway View Post

        If you are a complete newbie, there are forums for that
        I guess they are not aware of that as it seems most of them now reside here.

        Cheers. - Frank
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      • Profile picture of the author salegurus
        Originally Posted by writeaway View Post

        Don't let the negativity confuse you...

        Don't let negative people distract you from the value of this place.
        You obviously don't know your @$$ from your elbow when it comes to negativity or negative people...
        Most of what's been posted is not negative it's based on fact and what people have witnessed for themselves over the years...

        I'm sure everybody that's posted has the well being of WF at heart, nobody is rooting for the place to go belly-up, so keep that in mind next time you want to disparage comments that are not inline with yours or assume you know their state of mind...

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        • Profile picture of the author Steve B
          Nothing stays the same forever. The Internet is changing. Small business is changing. How people make their living is changing.

          This forum, with new owners, and new members coming on board every day is going to change as well.

          Some people reminisce about what could have been . . .

          Others step up and give new direction to change according to their own vision of what might be.

          Steve
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          • Profile picture of the author Kay King
            The good news, I suppose, for those marketers that left when they couldn't have income claims, is that apparently they are allowed again.

            Just check some of the ads, including classifieds, that were approved recently. Reports are apparently being ignored so I guess it's a free for all once again even though it's still technically against the rules.
            Amazing the comments above went unremarked.

            This is a growing problem - an example of the ability to "go around" the rules here and often get by with it.

            "No income claims in WSOs" - sounded good initially.

            But we have people with a sig link that promises "thousand of dollars"....and links to their WSO.

            We have sellers with links that claim "make10kthismonth" or similar domain that is nothing more than a link that shows for a WSO.

            Maybe what we need is simply a disclaimer here - "buy products with wild, unproven income claims at your own risk"....
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            • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
              Kay, it isn't just sneakily getting around the rules. It's screenshots - the old style and claims in the ad copy that are being approved. I

              http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...m-newbies.html

              http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...ul-online.html

              There are more but no time to list them and caring less and less. Obviously they don't want or need reports as they seem to be ignored even for blatant problems - not judgment calls.

              Mark


              Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

              Amazing the comments above went unremarked.

              This is a growing problem - an example of the ability to "go around" the rules here and often get by with it.

              "No income claims in WSOs" - sounded good initially.

              But we have people with a sig link that promises "thousand of dollars"....and links to their WSO.

              We have sellers with links that claim "make10kthismonth" or similar domain that is nothing more than a link that shows for a WSO.

              Maybe what we need is simply a disclaimer here - "buy products with wild, unproven income claims at your own risk"....
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              • Profile picture of the author salegurus
                Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

                Kay, it isn't just sneakily getting around the rules. It's screenshots - the old style and claims in the ad copy that are being approved.

                Mark
                It's laughable isn't it.... But then again the WSO forum has always been a magnet for sleazeballs and con artists...
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              • Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

                It's screenshots - the old style and claims in the ad copy that are being approved.... Obviously they don't want or need reports as they seem to be ignored even for blatant problems - not judgment calls.
                Mark
                According to the most recent publicly made available official statistics. *

                Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate View Post

                less than 5% of the WF members make a full time income off their online business.
                Originally Posted by jasondinner View Post

                Probably less than 1%

                And also the public opinion poll conducted regarding what appears to be
                most of the remaining percentage ....

                Originally Posted by The Niche Man View Post

                it's still the go to place for newbies
                Originally Posted by clockface View Post

                Kids, newbies, people that have no common sense
                Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                an influx of newbies
                Originally Posted by jasondinner View Post

                the amount of newbies
                Originally Posted by HelpingYouBeAnExpert View Post

                It's probably good if you want to sell stuff to newbies!
                Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate View Post

                Now it's just a bunch of newbies trying make a few bucks off other newbies.
                Originally Posted by forthright View Post

                people pushing scammy biz opp offers and preying on idiot newbies.
                It is therefore safe to assume that the forum will be relying on whatever business they can drum up from the folks who are still spending money here.

                This may explain the approval of questionable WSO's, claims in ad copy and thread titles that obviously go against the rules, and not to forget, (well how can you) Banner ads that deserve the Ugly award.

                * Official statistics mentioned above are based on Warrior Forum thread standards,
                and therefore may not necessarily reflect reality!



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              • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
                In the spirit of fairness, I saw one of the offers below show up at the top of the "New Posts" and decided to take a look. There was a graphic near the top before that had a revenue figure in it. This has been taken out.

                So I checked the other one. Before it mentioned having $100 days within 30 days if I recall correctly. Now that is cleaned up - even the title of the thread has been changed.

                Since these have been made compliant, apparently they originally slipped through the cracks but I would assume the rule still stands.

                Mark

                Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

                Kay, it isn't just sneakily getting around the rules. It's screenshots - the old style and claims in the ad copy that are being approved. I

                http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...m-newbies.html

                http://www.warriorforum.com/warrior-...ul-online.html

                There are more but no time to list them and caring less and less. Obviously they don't want or need reports as they seem to be ignored even for blatant problems - not judgment calls.

                Mark
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      • Originally Posted by writeaway View Post

        Don't let the negativity confuse you...
        WF is still the best place on the Internet for all levels of IM
        The all levels makes it THE problem, when all levels are put into one room.

        (main discussion forum etc)

        You can't put the current influx crowd that asks:

        "I haven't made a dime online ever, now please tell me how do I pick my nose"?

        with a crowd level that asks:

        "I want to increase my current 5k a month to a 10k" level and looking for advice,

        and actually have a significant amount of people to:

        a: Take it seriously

        b: Discuss that with.

        Intermediate to higher level marketers are tired of the number of the newbie wannabees in here giving regurgitated advice, pretending they are at a certain income level, but really have no clue about anything.

        If you are focused on high level IM, there are forums for that
        Which is the point of the discussion that you call "negativity".

        One should not have to say that "if you are focused on high level IM, there are forums for that"

        Shouldn't that be this forum?

        If you are a complete newbie, there are forums for that
        Well, the word on the street is that for newbies, it's this one.

        WF *IS* the only choice across the board for ALL skill levels.
        Again, it doesn't work, the way it is set up currently.
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        • Profile picture of the author writeaway
          Well, WF is open to all skill levels. If you want to rub shoulders with fellow elites at 'elite' forums you are more than welcome to do that.

          Quick warning though: you better watch what you say because the more 'elite' the forum the harsher the members are regarding threads or posts they suspect are 'noob' posts. One forum stands out in particular regarding this VERY INHOSPITABLE environment.



          Originally Posted by stoltingmediagroup View Post

          The all levels makes it THE problem, when all levels are put into one room.

          (main discussion forum etc)

          You can't put the current influx crowd that asks:

          "I haven't made a dime online ever, now please tell me how do I pick my nose"?

          with a crowd level that asks:

          "I want to increase my current 5k a month to a 10k" level and looking for advice,

          and actually have a significant amount of people to:

          a: Take it seriously

          b: Discuss that with.

          Intermediate to higher level marketers are tired of the number of the newbie wannabees in here giving regurgitated advice, pretending they are at a certain income level, but really have no clue about anything.

          Which is the point of the discussion that you call "negativity".

          One should not have to say that "if you are focused on high level IM, there are forums for that"

          Shouldn't that be this forum?

          Well, the word on the street is that for newbies, it's this one.

          Again, it doesn't work, the way it is set up currently.
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          • Profile picture of the author Tom Addams
            Originally Posted by writeaway View Post

            Well, WF is open to all skill levels. If you want to rub shoulders with fellow elites at 'elite' forums you are more than welcome to do that.

            Quick warning though: you better watch what you say because the more 'elite' the forum the harsher the members are regarding threads or posts they suspect are 'noob' posts. One forum stands out in particular regarding this VERY INHOSPITABLE environment.
            I think I know the one. LOL

            Agree with everything above. Spot on, as always.

            The newcomers as a whole (really hate using the word newbie) are not the problem. And half of the people here would be out of business without them (something to remember).

            It's the idiots. Those are the people we all have a problem with.

            You don't have a problem with some nice chap or chapess who wanders on here and tries to educate themselves. If you do - then that's pretty weird. We all have to learn. I've been at this for ages, and I learn tons of things every week.

            So, the issue is with the pillocks who arrive and, for various reasons, just say and do all the wrong things: entitled people, lazy people, people not wanting to invest, blah, blah, blah.

            But the decent newcomers? They have as much right to be here as anyone. I think some of the "newbie detractors" need to understand where these newcomers are coming from and why they're here. And I'm talking the ones who should be here. These folks have mouths to feed, rents to pay, dreams to feed. One of many reasons why people who heave con artist products at them should be ashamed. It's been a real long time since I had no money, but I remember those days. Not nice.

            If someone comes here who deserves to be here, and if they want help - thumbs up from yours truly.

            Would I also like a mastermind group? You bet your butt. Sign me up!

            Tom
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
        Originally Posted by writeaway View Post

        People still make GOOD MONEY from the WF
        You don't get it. When this place was at its best it wasn't about making money off of it.
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        • Profile picture of the author jasondinner
          Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

          You don't get it. When this place was at its best it wasn't about making money off of it.
          Especially when they're flogging their must have ebook on Amazon and killer high converting blogspot landing page..

          Ok I'll stop now (maybe). I can't help myself. Someone got me all riled up and I'm having too much fun at their expense...
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    • Profile picture of the author The Niche Man
      Originally Posted by affiliatewealth View Post

      Wow , most of the posts are pretty much saying this place is now C**P filled with nothing but spam, no decent advice, and run by idiots, so what can we do to change this??

      If what is written above is right, where are all the serious Internet marketers going or gone?

      I have no right to say anything negative as i only joined this site recently but its getting a hammering in this thread.
      I wouldn't go that far,
      • No, I wouldn't say this place is filled with "nothing" but spam.
      • Yes, this place has decent advice.
      • No, this place is not run by idiots.
      • And Yes we can change this.
      The first step is discussing it like we are now.

      I'm not sure where other serious marketers are going to find a Free Internet Marketing Forum comparable to this one ... Because there ain't any on the whole planet!

      Maybe that's why you hear so many passionate, angry and pissed people in this thread yelling, screaming and almost pleading for changes. Before it's too late.
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  • Profile picture of the author Brent Stangel
    I don't have anything good to say, so I'll just say, "Hey!"

    Brent
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    My point stands about the WR and list building. I have a ton of stuff I've downloaded over the years on my PC (and a handful of gems) and I've never signed up for any list that I recall. The reason I haven't signed up for their wonderful lists is because of the quality of many of the things in the WR. Don't give me crap and then promise to give me more crap and smother my inbox to boot.

    The WR isn't any more about list building than sigs or WSOs or anything else that goes on here.

    If list building is a no-no (take away sigs) then that's why a high quality, higher level discussion board will never happen. People will not help, for the most part, without some incentive.

    Mark
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve Wells
    Wow, I didn't expect so many answers to my question, at least I know I wasn't being too critical of a place that I had in the past really, really enjoyed to hang out at virtually. And not only hanging out, but also helping people for free, and occasionally making money too..
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    • Profile picture of the author Nabaleka
      Originally Posted by Steve Wells View Post

      Wow, I didn't expect so many answers to my question, at least I know I wasn't being too critical of a place that I had in the past really, really enjoyed to hang out at virtually. And not only hanging out, but also helping people for free, and occasionally making money too..
      That shows that there are guys who are concerned with the route the platform is taking. I don't know how it was before but I think it is now your (senior members) responsibility to take control. Don't let what you built go down a path you don't want it to go.
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  • Profile picture of the author nicolasmd2112
    I agree and disagree with many of you.

    I think that despite the change in ownership, this forum is still #1 in Internet Marketing Forums, as a business place, marketplace, and as a community.

    BUT, it has seen better days. The content is less impactful, and much of the information that is posted, or is asked about can be discovered through the search function. Many forum veterans get mildly irritated by this, as do i.

    So what are we going to do about this? Can we do anything about this?

    I would love to see this forum back at full potential, but this thread is sort of "just another one of those threads", does it bring value to the forum? Or are we all just complaining?




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    • Profile picture of the author jasondinner
      Originally Posted by nicolasmd2112 View Post


      So what are we going to do about this? Can we do anything about this?

      I would love to see this forum back at full potential, but this thread is sort of "just another one of those threads", does it bring value to the forum? Or are we all just complaining?
      Maybe Allen Says will pull an MJ DeMarco and buy back what he sold after it's value plummets, then build it back up again.
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      • Profile picture of the author nicolasmd2112
        Originally Posted by jasondinner View Post

        Maybe Allen Says will pull an MJ DeMarco and buy back what he sold after it's value plummets, then build it back up again.
        Haha hopefully man.

        It would be well worth the investment! and the wait!
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        • Profile picture of the author jasondinner
          Originally Posted by nicolasmd2112 View Post

          Haha hopefully man.

          It would be well worth the investment! and the wait!
          I left out the part where he sells it for like 10X what he sold it for the first time lol

          That book was awesome by the way. "The Millionaire Fastlane"
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          • Profile picture of the author Lance K
            Originally Posted by jasondinner View Post

            That book was awesome by the way. "The Millionaire Fastlane"
            Yes it was!
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  • Profile picture of the author wloggy
    While WF is still #1 but more users will care what they will have from search engines.
    I've just noted this in previous reply.

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    • Profile picture of the author TommyHara
      Originally Posted by wloggy View Post

      While WF is still #1 but more users will care what they will have from search engines.
      I've just noted this in previous reply.

      I often search with this keyword but I always choose Warriorforum as the best!

      Obviously, It is also easy to understand when it has more competitors our there, you can find out more from search engines.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    The good news, I suppose, for those marketers that left when they couldn't have income claims, is that apparently they are allowed again.

    Just check some of the ads, including classifieds, that were approved recently. Reports are apparently being ignored so I guess it's a free for all once again even though it's still technically against the rules.

    Mark
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  • It's probably good if you want to sell stuff to newbies!
    Signature
    soon people... Relax...
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  • Profile picture of the author Sarevok
    The WarriorForum is what WE the end users make it.

    Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

    ;]

    Just my hopeful $.02

    PS:

    A lot of people are showing the fallen statistics of the WarriorForum.com.

    Could it be that the reduction of traffic is due to the "gurus" not creating as many WSO's here on the forum?

    I know the WSO popularity has decreased over the last year as a result of the stringent ruleset being enforced... Which naturally lead to a quelling of the "Guru WarriorForum launches" - which would ultimately significantly reduce traffic on the forum, the WSO section at least.
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  • Well, the "community" aspect of this forum has been dead for a long time. I mean "community" as knowledgeably people sharing valuable information. The mods drove high-level marketers away by allowing threads like "How do I make $100 by next tuesday?".

    This place used to be a good place for discussion. Now it's just a bunch of newbies trying make a few bucks off other newbies. It's been like that for a while already.
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  • This is a business forum. I'm sure less than 5% of the WF members make a full time income off their online business. Therefore, with such user pool, the quality of its contributions... Nothing else to say...

    This forum thrives on volume, not quality.
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    • Profile picture of the author jasondinner
      Originally Posted by Anonymous Affiliate View Post

      This is a business forum. I'm sure less than 5% of the WF members make a full time income off their online business. Therefore, with such user pool, the quality of its contributions... Nothing else to say...

      This forum thrives on volume, not quality.
      Probably less than 1%
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  • Profile picture of the author Yvon Boulianne
    WSO should be removed, most of them are not very good stuff anyway...
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  • Profile picture of the author Tom Addams
    Well...

    I'll say something for WF - they haven't deleted this thread. Many other forums would have done so in a New York minute. Obviously, it hasn't been overlooked. The mods are very quick to delete. The biggest possibilities:

    1. A deletion would create further negative opinion.
    2. This thread is market research for WF.

    Now I've got that out of the way, I'd like to ask if we could begin discussing how to fix WF. I already see some excellent suggestions, but maybe we can concentrate our efforts? Simply asking where we should go to next is not only the easy option, but it's a weak one.

    I see some very clever chaps and ladies above (not you, salesgurus ).

    What do we do . . ?

    Edit: And how to we get it done?

    Cheers,

    Tom
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    • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Tom Addams View Post

      I'd like to ask if we could begin discussing how to fix WF.
      That's easy, get rid of sig files and no one would answer the daily;
      "how do I make money online" questions.

      Then the morons would go and play somewhere else.

      Nobody that insists on answering these everyday should be complaining.
      They only have themselves to blame.
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      • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
        Banned
        Originally Posted by lgibbon View Post

        That's easy, get rid of sig files and no one would answer the daily; "how do I make money online" questions.
        Agreed. Signature links are the largest problem. I know it's not fair, but when I see folks continuously responding to questions, if they have signature links, I automatically assume they are trolling for customers. Again - I realize that's not really fair, but it's human nature to think that way and contrary to popular belief, I am quasi-human.

        Cheers. - Frank
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      • Profile picture of the author Tom Addams
        Originally Posted by lgibbon View Post

        That's easy, get rid of sig files and no one would answer the daily;
        "how do I make money online" questions.

        Then the morons would go and play somewhere else.

        Nobody that insists on answering these everyday should be complaining.
        They only have themselves to blame.
        You might have a point. Have actually just had a smoke and a drink to think it over. My instinctive response was to disagree, because I can think of a handful of similar forums where I post, and sigs are in use and more productive business talk is in effect. But then I considered the issue that we're all moaning about, and this problem is prevalent elsewhere. Which probably defeats my argument.

        Thinking on it some more, I can think of a handful of very useful members who - and I'm sincerely only guessing - would likely leave if sigs were removed. These are people who share common sense advice and they're good for "business talk" with more experienced Warriors. So - likely - you'd lose them.

        We wouldn't lose many of the fresh newbies, since they have no sigs. So the questions would persist. (Must say, though, I don't really have a problem with the intelligent newbie questions. We all have to learn). I suppose if the questions did persist, maybe it wouldn't be a long-term thing, though, since a lot of people giving the answers right now would jump ship.

        Upshot - undecided.

        Cheers,

        Tom
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      • Profile picture of the author talfighel
        Originally Posted by lgibbon View Post

        That's easy, get rid of sig files and no one would answer the daily;
        "how do I make money online" questions.

        Then the morons would go and play somewhere else.

        Nobody that insists on answering these everyday should be complaining.
        They only have themselves to blame.
        I can almost guarantee you that if links in signatures are no longer allowed, a lot of people are not going to come back here.
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        • Profile picture of the author kilgore
          Originally Posted by talfighel View Post

          I can almost guarantee you that if links in signatures are no longer allowed, a lot of people are not going to come back here.
          If people are only participating because they want to promote their signatures, we'd be better off without them. Just as the worth of a book isn't determined by the number of words it has, the value of a forum isn't determined by the amount of posts or posters.

          Moreover, I have no doubt that there are plenty of people (like me) who would participate even more on the WF if what they said wasn't immediately drowned out by people posting nonsense or recycling the same garbage over and over again just to get their signatures seen.

          So yeah, you'd probably lose some people, but I doubt many -- if any -- that most people who are actually trying to learn from and contribute to the community here would miss.
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          • Profile picture of the author Tom Addams
            Originally Posted by kilgore View Post

            If people are only participating because they want to promote their signatures, we'd be better off without them. Just as the worth of a book isn't determined by the number of words it has, the value of a forum isn't determined by the amount of posts or posters.

            Moreover, I have no doubt that there are plenty of people (like me) who would participate even more on the WF if what they said wasn't immediately drowned out by people posting nonsense or recycling the same garbage over and over again just to get their signatures seen.

            So yeah, you'd probably lose some people, but I doubt many -- if any -- that most people who are actually trying to learn from and contribute to the community here would miss.
            You always present a good argument, kilgore.

            After giving it some thought, though, I think I disagree. (It's not often I encounter a debate or an issue where I feel undecided, which actually makes this one pretty fun.) Anyway, to explain where my thoughts are . . .

            What is a sig file? Ad space. What is ad space? An opportunity to generate income.

            If you think about it, think what the world would be like if we removed the opportunity to generate income:

            1. No iPads or Iphones.
            2. No Microsoft.
            3. No Hollywood Movies.
            4. No Stand-up Comedians.
            5. No Harry Potter Books
            6. No Warrior Forum.
            7. No internet marketing.

            We may not all like the things on the above list, but I guarantee this: almost everything all of us do like, or love, would not exist without income opportunity.

            If you remove sigs, do you solve the problem?

            Here's what you do solve:

            1. No con artists heaving worthless products and/ or services.
            2. No stupid "We've Heard It All Before Posts" just to get sig views.
            3. No short, worthless, I just want to be in this thread posts.
            4. No trolling to get eyes on sigs.
            5. Probably a whole lot I'm overlooking.

            And now here's what you lose:

            1. Sensible marketers, contributing a great deal of value, sensible marketers who represent great business connections, and sensible marketers who not only elevate discussions but educate even the most experienced of marketers. In short: you lose iPads, iPhones, and Harry Potter.

            Shall I tell you what I think the solution is? After some thought...

            1. You need to earn your signature.
            2. In order to keep it, you need to deserve it.
            3. You need to pay for it.

            After writing all of that out, it feels right. But, like I say, tricky topic.

            Cheers,

            Tom
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            • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Tom Addams View Post

              And now here's what you lose:

              1. Sensible marketers, contributing a great deal of value, sensible marketers who represent great business connections, and sensible marketers who not only elevate discussions but educate even the most experienced of marketers.
              There aren't any of them left so that's that theory down the drain.
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              • Profile picture of the author Tom Addams
                Originally Posted by lgibbon View Post

                There aren't any of them left so that's that theory down the drain.
                I can think of several sensible marketers with sig files. And, given their activity on WF, I suspect they'd leave if sigs were removed.

                Cheers,

                Tom
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              • Profile picture of the author jasondinner
                Originally Posted by lgibbon View Post

                There aren't any of them left so that's that theory down the drain.
                There are still some, not many, but some.
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              • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
                Originally Posted by lgibbon View Post

                There aren't any of them left so that's that theory down the drain.
                hmmm I take exception to that, there are still some. Just not enough of us

                PS: I had the pleasure of talking to one of the directors of the owners in the UK a couple of months ago... I suggested that the soul of the original community was the member moderators. Not the ones employed in an office somewhere.

                that there should be a private peer group for people like me that was by invite only, so we could ask our questions to, and be able to mastermind with. And be the only ones allowed to do any marketing in the forum with sig files etc

                I also suggested that peer group should be the moderators and in return for the special privileges, the said invited peer group would agree to spend some time in the main forum, helping the newbies.

                In other words it had to be earned, and could be rescinded if abused or ignored.

                I'm sure it wont be acted on mind you, but hey I had my 2cents worth
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                • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by Robert Puddy View Post


                  that there should be a private peer group for people like me that was by invite only, so we could ask our questions to, and be able to mastermind with. And be the only ones allowed to do any marketing in the forum with sig files etc
                  So let's see if I've understood this correctly,
                  You think the forum should be run by a bunch of self appointed experts
                  who would have the monopoly on advertising to the rest of the members?
                  Good luck with that then.
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                  • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by lgibbon View Post

                    So let's see if I've understood this correctly,
                    You think the forum should be run by a bunch of self appointed experts
                    who would have the monopoly on advertising to the rest of the members?
                    Good luck with that then.
                    I humbly accept. OK. Forget the 'humbly.'

                    Cheers. - Frank
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                  • Profile picture of the author Tom Addams
                    Originally Posted by lgibbon View Post

                    So let's see if I've understood this correctly,
                    You think the forum should be run by a bunch of self appointed experts
                    who would have the monopoly on advertising to the rest of the members?
                    Good luck with that then.
                    Wrong. That's not what Robert suggested.

                    Originally Posted by Robert Puddy

                    that there should be a private peer group for people like me that was by invite only, so we could ask our questions to, and be able to mastermind with. And be the only ones allowed to do any marketing in the forum with sig files etc
                    Just to break it down for you:

                    1. Remove sigs.
                    2. "WF" invite people who "they consider" experts.
                    3. In exchange for experts as moderators, the mods are allowed sigs as payment.

                    Upshot: WF is no longer moderated by inexperienced IMers. Instead, it's ran by IMers with a wealth of experience.

                    Likely results:

                    1. Quality posts would be allowed. Not the typical drivel that currently has other boards pointing their fingers and giggling like loons.

                    2. WSOs would be reviewed by people who actually know what they're doing, and only worthwhile WSOs would be accepted.

                    3. A real mastermind section would be created and, trust me, everyone would want in. But they'd only be allowed in if they paid the price and deserved admittance.

                    4. WF would be a different place. All the stupid threads? Gone. The idiots causing trouble? Blammo. Gone. The stupid nonsense threads? Yawn. GONE.

                    When you put a bunch of experts together, I also imagine they'd come up with some pretty nifty ideas to enhance the community.

                    Good, eh?

                    Cheers,

                    Your Buddy Tom
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                    • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
                      Banned
                      Originally Posted by Tom Addams View Post

                      2. "WF" invite people who "they consider" experts.
                      That would be an improvement.
                      All we have at the moment are self appointed experts
                      that only know how to recycle.
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            • Profile picture of the author Lance K
              Originally Posted by Tom Addams View Post

              What is a sig file? Ad space. What is ad space? An opportunity to generate income.
              Is it though? Should it be? Maybe it should be called and advertising file rather than a signature file then.

              I know what you're getting at though. It's been an accepted practice around here (for quite a while now) to simply utilize sig files as advertising space. And it was compounded with the introduction of banners in sig files. I never have been a big fan of that.

              So again...should it be? Maybe it doesn't matter, because it IS.

              I don't know about abolishing sigs all together, but tightening up the guidelines quite a bit sure couldn't hurt. That could be quite the moderation nightmare though.
              Signature
              "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
              ~ Zig Ziglar
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        • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
          Banned
          Originally Posted by talfighel View Post

          I can almost guarantee you that if links in signatures are no longer allowed, a lot of people are not going to come back here.
          Yes, probably all those that answer the same questions everyday
          hoping to sucker a newbie into their latest affiliate program or coaching offer.
          No great loss there then.

          Think of all those that might come back if there was suddendly
          something interesting to read for a change, rather than the same old
          questions being answered by the same old sig file floggers.
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      • Profile picture of the author Ayawa
        Originally Posted by lgibbon View Post

        That's easy, get rid of sig files and no one would answer the daily;
        "how do I make money online" questions.

        Then the morons would go and play somewhere else.

        Nobody that insists on answering these everyday should be complaining.
        They only have themselves to blame.
        the only guy who had courage to expose the truth. It was 91th reply.
        Signature

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  • Profile picture of the author salegurus
    I say we start by banning anyone with a Bowler Hat as an avatar... Who's with me? .....
    Signature
    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.

    ― George Carlin
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    • Profile picture of the author Tom Addams
      Originally Posted by salegurus View Post

      I say we start by banning anyone with a Bowler Hat as an avatar... Who's with me? .....
      Okay - har-har. Give me back my hat.

      And just to avoid this post being deleted.

      I totally agree with what the chap somewhere up there said. I couldn't have said it better myself. I'd just like to add - it is indeed a community issue. Yep.

      Tom
      Signature

      I Coach: Learn More | My Latest WF Thread: Dead Domains/ Passive Traffic
      Learn one way I earn money: I give away free stuff.

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  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by Steve Wells View Post

    After the new change over, I have rarely even tried to do any type of business on this forum, what happened here, it seems that all the people that used to post here have moved on and it almost seems very spammy, or am I just seeing things?
    Different demographics. When Allen owned and ran the forum, it started as just his own customers, and then gradually expanded to being OPEN for the public... but still a reasonably guarded community.

    Freelancer has spent millions on this site, and they want to recoup. They want ROI. They want growth. So they're cross-pollinating with their existing userbase, and actively promoting to new users, along with making some changes in how stuff works here.

    This is their job, and as fellow internet business owners we should at the very least understand that. Communities evolve. Always do. The entire six years I've been here, every change in the forum has been met with resistance and objection from the userbase.

    It's a different ball game now. It's still a ball game. The players are still about. It's just that some of us aren't playng this particular game - I don't freelance, I don't hire a lot of freelancers, and I don't have much interest in the kind of culture that evolves around this. I am of the personal opinion that freelancing is the larval stage of running a business, and I want to help people become butterflies.

    Most of the people here aren't ready to become butterflies, and that's fine. It doesn't mean anything's WRONG. It's just that my audience isn't really here anymore. And they haven't been since long before Freelancer took over, tbh.

    But people who aren't like me and aren't my target audience aren't defective or anything. I just want to focus more on people who are like me, and are my target audience.

    I'm still invested here. I still care about the community. It's not "ruined" or anything. And I do have some stuff on the drawing board that's designed to help the larval business owner decide whether he wants to become a butterfly or not - it's okay if you don't want to - and the audience for that is very much here. When that stuff is ready, I'll probably bring it here. But until then, I mostly lurk, and not even very much of that.
    Signature
    "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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  • Profile picture of the author nazninshetu
    Absolutely correct. Everyday the number of SPAMM is increasing rapidly. Number of SPAM tracker tools also increased. Though the SPAM will never vanish, but we have to try. We need to increase the consciousness to the general user. By which the number of SPAM may decrease day by day.
    Signature

    Hi

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  • Profile picture of the author mojojuju
    One thing about The Warrior Forum has stayed the same - people are still using the main forum to bitch about the The Warrior Forum.
    Signature

    :)

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    • Profile picture of the author Dave Gammage
      Originally Posted by mojojuju View Post

      One thing about The Warrior Forum has stayed the same - people are still using the main forum to bitch about the The Warrior Forum.
      Haha, yes indeed... some things will never change.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tom Addams
    Ryan David:

    The "thanks" system hadn't occurred to me. Very interesting points, indeed.

    Lance K:

    The more I think about it, the more I agree with sig files. I don't want to name names (since I obviously have no idea if they'd leave or contribute as much should sigs be removed), but I have a growing mental list of people who we might lose. Where I think we both agree is perhaps on a modification of who can use sigs.

    Cheers,

    Tom
    Signature

    I Coach: Learn More | My Latest WF Thread: Dead Domains/ Passive Traffic
    Learn one way I earn money: I give away free stuff.

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    • Originally Posted by Tom Addams View Post

      I have a growing mental list of people who we might lose.
      So do I,
      and therefore I would like to ask your input on something...

      Let's say someones Sig file hypothetically looked like this:


      Coaching Available in June: Coaching Program



      And let's say the Warrior Forum decided that Sig files were to be completely discontinued (no paid image, no nothing).

      And let's say this person for the most part spent much of the day jumping into threads related to newbies
      "looking for a coach", or helping any other newbies that seemed lost,

      or those newbies that advertised that they had some money to spend in a "what would you do with $x"
      amount thread, and looked like they might benefit from some coaching etc,

      do you think that GRM person would be hanging out here as much?
      Or would they find somewhere else to spend their days generously helping out?

      Thanks.
      Signature
      Arnold Stolting - Stolting Media Group
      "I LOVE The Song! The Vibe Is Positive And Firm!" - Kymani Marley. (Son of Bob Marley)
      "Keep Up The Good Work!" Tony Lindsay - Lead Vocalist, Carlos Santana.

      "Very High Quality!" Jeremy Harding - Manager / Producer. Sean Paul.
      "They Are FANTASTIC!" - Willie Crawford.

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    • Profile picture of the author Cali16
      Originally Posted by Tom Addams View Post

      Where I think we both agree is perhaps on a modification of who can use sigs.
      I wholeheartedly agree with modifying or limiting who can use sigs (for advertising).

      While I do think the use of sig links is a HUGE problem on this forum, I don't think eliminating them entirely is the solution.

      For example, I don't have any problem with someone like Tom posting frequently and having and using his signature to advertise. Why? Because his posts consistently provide value (at least the vast majority of the ones of his I've read).

      But I can also think of at least half a dozen members (most having joined within the past year, but a few that have been around longer) who never add any value to threads. They jump into threads, usually with a one-liner, and often what they say has little relevance to the thread. A few others chime in on threads, rambling away, but clearly don't know what they're talking about - one of those individuals has posted multiple times in this thread. And while I can't say for sure, I strongly suspect they post primarily to get eyes on whatever they're peddling via their signature.

      I have always thought that the ability to have a link in one's sig should be an earned privilege - at least by time spent on the forum (1 year minimum if it was up to me) - although even better would be something like a designated group of seasoned members who decide whether someone has provided enough value to the forum to deserve the privilege of having a sig.

      But, I also realize that implementing that would be challenging, and some would argue that it would lead to favoritism or too much subjectivity to be fair.

      I also wish we'd go back to using moderators who truly understand this forum and are personally invested in it, like the former mods were. I don't think the current moderator system is working very well. I don't mean that as an insult to the mods themselves; rather, the system set up is failing, and it's hurting the WF community as a whole.

      There are no easy solutions. But I do agree with whoever (Salesgurus, I think it was?) said earlier in the thread that we should go back to having a paid membership. That, alone, would weed out at least some of the problems.
      Signature
      If you don't face your fears, the only thing you'll ever see is what's in your comfort zone. ~Anne McClain, astronaut
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike McGovern
    The forum is still the same sans the big launches and the gurutheism that once governed the place.
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  • Profile picture of the author kencalhn
    agree re get rid of sig files, and moderate to prevent "how do I make $500 today help I'm starving" type threads (or make a separate sub-forum called "stupid newbie wanna get rich quick" threads, lol)

    return to quality; it is what we make of it
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  • Profile picture of the author Tom Addams
    Originally Posted by stoltingmediagroup View Post

    So do I,
    and therefore I would like to ask your input on something...

    Let's say someones Sig file hypothetically looked like this:

    Originally Posted by stoltingmediagroup View Post

    Coaching Available in June: Coaching Program



    And let's say the Warrior Forum decided that Sig files were to be completely discontinued (no paid image, no nothing).

    And let's say this person for the most part spent much of the day jumping into threads related to newbies
    "looking for a coach", or helping any other newbies that seemed lost,

    or those newbies that advertised that they had some money to spend in a "what would you do with $x"
    amount thread, and looked like they might benefit from some coaching etc,

    do you think that GRM person would be hanging out here as much?
    Or would they find somewhere else to spend their days generously helping out?

    Thanks.

    I would leave in a New York minute.


    To understand why I post here:

    $100 Per Day Newbie

    However, you paint me out to be ravenous for income from Warrior Forum, hopping into key threads in the hopes of bolstering my income. I'm sure nothing I can say will sway your belief, but for what it's worth, I can tell you this: the income I generate from Warrior Forum is a fraction of my day-to-day earnings.

    As far as coaching goes, I've mentioned before on Warrior Forum the reasons why I coach. Part of it is, indeed, income related. But this is the smallest reason. And a simple review of my posts (and knowledge) might help assure you of this. The main reason I coach is because, compared to many people here, I'm a newbie. Yep, a newbie.

    I began working online 21 years ago come September. But my arrival into MMO came about in 2013. And the instant I did arrive, I instantly found myself lacking in one vital department. While I had a wealth of knowledge to share, I was an experienced marketer, and one who was unused to explaining how I do what I do. Over the last 2 years, I've become extremely good at it (I like to think), and coaching is very much responsible.

    When you work with newcomers, you have to explain often quite complex systems to absolute beginners. Initially, I spent 7 days a week, hours upon hours a day, until I was completely happy that what I was passing on was thoroughly understood and implemented just the way I would do it myself. These days, it comes as second nature. And the benefit is more further reaching still. As I knew would be the case, I'm now able to teach non-students (via blog posts, e-books, videos, or anything else) with ease. Most of which is down to coaching.

    I don't expect I'll be coaching for much longer, a few months perhaps, but the time I've spent doing so will continue to have a very positive impact on my business. After all, even when we're not coaching one to one in MMO, we're still teaching, whether we're teaching through a simple blog post, written on a Sunday night, or through a series of videos or written guides delivered to members.

    I'm always conscious of something else, too. The post I make today on Warrior Forum, could be around for the next 21 years. I run a great family business and I'm very proud of it. And I expect I'll have other MMO businesses in the future that I'll feel just the same way about. When I hop onto Warrior Forum, I can help someone out, who I think deserves it, I can "get my geek on" by talking about stuff I love, and in so doing I can provide an income stream to my business or businesses for years to come. All of which is passive income that I generate while (usually) having fun. A win-win for all concerned.

    Never let it be said that I'm ashamed to make money. I believe an honest day's work deserves an honest day's pay.

    Cheers,

    Tom
    Signature

    I Coach: Learn More | My Latest WF Thread: Dead Domains/ Passive Traffic
    Learn one way I earn money: I give away free stuff.

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    • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
      Just curious..

      If we had this
      Originally Posted by Tom Addams View Post

      I think the solution would be a mastermind group with a relatively high-ticket. Unlike the War Room it would be a place to profit from education, not list building.
      But no sigs allowed, would this still happen?

      Originally Posted by Tom Addams View Post


      I would leave in a New York minute.
      Mark
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      • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
        Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

        Just curious..

        If we had this

        But no sigs allowed, would this still happen?



        Mark
        I wouldn't be upset about no sig files, if the forum delivered me some value with a proper peer group to mastermind and mingle with.

        Right now the only value to me is the sig file, and that's the rub
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      • Profile picture of the author Tom Addams
        Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

        Just curious..

        If we had this

        But no sigs allowed, would this still happen?



        Mark
        The suggestion being that I'm only here for profit? If so - and I apologies, sincerely, if this isn't the case - then you really need to read my previous posts and at least the first paragraphs of the link provided.

        Anyway...

        In that kind of environment? Hell. I'd have no problem whatsoever about losing my signature. Not. One. Iota.

        I'll tell you why...

        I'm already a member of several mastermind groups - that name is so cheesy, but nevermind - and the knowledge they provide is worth more to me than any amount of sig traffic. And I mean "any amount."

        I'd actually love that kind of thing on WF. Elsewhere, people laugh at WF (some of you must know this to me true) but I've never understood why. We've got a ton of knowledgeable folks here, and like me, I'm sure almost all of them have to hold back on the information.

        Take me for example. (I can hear my wife saying, "Please do!") I literally cannot make a thread about a method. I've tried. Due to the name of my business, it just doesn't fly. And we're not talking silly methods. We're talking blueprints used by half of the people in this thread.

        Not only that, but a lot of the things I'd like to say would either be killed from saturation, or you'd have idiots pulling them apart and disagreeing because they don't know any better.

        I'm not used to all that stuff. I'm used to sharing high-level info and - in return - getting back the same. Win-win.

        And the discussions and connections you have are awesome.

        Cheers,

        Tom
        Signature

        I Coach: Learn More | My Latest WF Thread: Dead Domains/ Passive Traffic
        Learn one way I earn money: I give away free stuff.

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    • Originally Posted by Tom Addams View Post


      I would leave in a New York minute.
      Thanks for being honest in sharing that.
      That's really all I wanted to know.

      I have no detailed response, but it does answer some questions.

      However, you paint me out to be ravenous for income from Warrior Forum, hopping into key threads in the hopes of bolstering my income.
      Just observing is all...

      When I started seeing similar threads popping up asking about the state of this forum, I was actually trying to see if there was a significant link between the type's of traffic in this forum, (newbies, cheap low budget coaches, etc) in relation to the sig file exposure being allowed.

      You are actually one of the very few that IMO does give some helpful advice to your target audience, and your sig file looks professional enough that I can handle looking at it,

      whereas I just tune out the Sig files that basically consist of...
      BOLD SCREAMING BLUE CLICK ME NOW AND I'LL COACH YOU EVEN THOUGH I HAVE NO CLUE!... OH WAIT I STILL HAVE SOME MORE LINES AND SPACE LEFT SO I'M GOING TO USE IT TO MAKE IT FOUR
      LINES OF MORE SCREAMING TEXT IN YOUR FACE MOTHHA....!!!

      and where the post itself is usually no more than a one liner.

      I think maybe one or two free lines max should be enough. No bold, etc.
      Possibly pay for extra lines or to allow bold etc. The way it is right now, things just end up being a free for all competition about who can scream the loudest, and everyone is allowed to scream, even the toddlers.

      But I digress...

      I'm sure nothing I can say will sway your belief, but for what it's worth, I can tell you this: the income I generate from Warrior Forum is a fraction of my day-to-day earnings.
      I really have no deep beliefs, nor am I (just like many others here) seriously invested or concerned as to whether someone else (including yourself) makes this forum their main gig or not.

      I just think that most of us who come here for a daily swim, are tired of swimming in a pool full of floating diapers filled with poo. We ask the pool owner to clean it up, they don't, but just allow allot more poo.

      I began working online 21 years ago come September. But my arrival into MMO came about in 2013.
      Same here 20+ years, the only difference is I do not teach MMO for income.
      Therefore my presence here has nothing to with my Sig file, etc.

      I mainly built my business over the years so that I don't need to supplement it through Sig file clicks. If I wanted to do that, I'd be over in music forums etc.

      Never let it be said that I'm ashamed to make money. I believe an honest day's work deserves an honest day's pay.
      And if a peoples days work is posting threads for Sig clicks, power to them!

      In the end, it's really not about Sig clicks, low budget coaching, spam, or an influx of Canadians,

      It's mainly about reworking the forum a bit, or allot, because as it is today, it's somewhat flawed, and I think WF has lost and continues to lose its bread and butter if people just come here for the main reason of advertising their link.

      There's got to be a better way, It's 2015 and it won't take much for someone with some serious cash to see an opportunity here, and build something better with different member levels, features, etc by reading all these threads and suggestion forum.
      Signature
      Arnold Stolting - Stolting Media Group
      "I LOVE The Song! The Vibe Is Positive And Firm!" - Kymani Marley. (Son of Bob Marley)
      "Keep Up The Good Work!" Tony Lindsay - Lead Vocalist, Carlos Santana.

      "Very High Quality!" Jeremy Harding - Manager / Producer. Sean Paul.
      "They Are FANTASTIC!" - Willie Crawford.

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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
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  • Profile picture of the author writeaway
    Getting rid of sigs would cut down on spam initially but spammers still have other tricks up their sleeves. A sig ban would just simply shift the focus to other underhanded promotional tricks like the 1-2 punch method, the more obvious program question spam, etc etc.

    In fact, you don't even need a link to spam because the moment you mention a brand you plant the idea in people's heads.Simply citing a complete enough program or site name is enough to market if positioned right.

    Cutting down on spam is an arms race and it is constantly evolving. Getting rid of sigs won't solve the problem. It might end up creating worse spam problems down the road.

    Maybe the forum should not allow new members to create threads or post links until they have posted 100 replies. BUT that solution opens a can of worms too. Imagine the quality of the stuff people will post just because they need to get 100 posts?

    There are no easy solutions... DP had a LIKE requirement for people to have sigs. The result? People were trading likes.

    The funny thing about this thread is that it's topic has been raised (both in a serious form and in a click bait/trolling-for-views form) for years now. As mentioned by someone on this thread earlier, people were moaning about this 5 years ago under the old management. I suspect people will still be moaning about this 5 years from now.

    The more things change, the more they stay the same.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    Tom I'm not one that are against sig files. People that don't understand or accept them are kind of like the people that don't understand or accept a properly done upsell.

    Many of those that complain about "sig whores" don't help out at all. They don't answer any questions. They don't discuss anything about business. It seems their job is primarily to complain about the sigs.

    I laugh when I see a comment like "nice way to up your post count" or "smooth move getting your sig seen" by people that just upped their post count and had their sig seen with their complaining post.
    Pot meet kettle.

    Mark

    Edit: I checked you out. I signed up for your free stuff to get more info on what you were doing. I rarely do that because my BS meter is set so high. I like what I saw. I enjoy your emails - I've read every one as soon as they've come. Haven't been disappointed so far.
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    • Profile picture of the author writeaway
      Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

      I laugh when I see a comment like "nice way to up your post count" or "smooth move getting your sig seen" by people that just upped their post count and had their sig seen with their complaining post.
      Pot meet kettle.

      Mark
      Even if they don't have a sig, they helped the supposed sig spammer by bumping the supposedly offending post by replying with a complaint.
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    • Profile picture of the author Tom Addams
      Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

      Tom I'm not one that are against sig files. People that don't understand or accept them are kind of like the people that don't understand or accept a properly done upsell.

      Many of those that complain about "sig whores" don't help out at all. They don't answer any questions. They don't discuss anything about business. It seems their job is primarily to complain about the sigs.

      I laugh when I see a comment like "nice way to up your post count" or "smooth move getting your sig seen" by people that just upped their post count and had their sig seen with their complaining post.
      Pot meet kettle.

      Mark

      Edit: I checked you out. I signed up for your free stuff to get more info on what you were doing. I rarely do that because my BS meter is set so high. I like what I saw. I enjoy your emails - I've read every one as soon as they've come. Haven't been disappointed so far.
      Mark - you made my day. Thanks a lot for that. Very nice of you to say so.

      And I'm sorry about misunderstanding you. I get a bit of flack on WF, especially from a few folks in this thread, so I get a bit defensive. Well . . . a lot. lol

      Cheers,

      Tom
      Signature

      I Coach: Learn More | My Latest WF Thread: Dead Domains/ Passive Traffic
      Learn one way I earn money: I give away free stuff.

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  • Profile picture of the author outlawdawg
    I am a new member to the forum and have found some very useful information here. I would like to take a moment and thank the people with more knowledge and experience for sharing their thoughts and advice. It has helped me.

    Thank You
    Brian
    Signature
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  • Profile picture of the author ara67
    I think many just spend more time with facebook with all those gurus trying to sell you facebook products.....
    Signature
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by ara67 View Post

      I think many just spend more time with facebook with all those gurus trying to sell you facebook products.....
      Probably. Literally 100% of my buying traffic is through Facebook, but the methods and tactics I use are the same thing that works everywhere - develop a following, build a relationship, any basic listbuilding course will teach you the same skills.

      There's nothing particularly special about Facebook, or indeed any social media site. Same stuff works on Twitter, Google+, LinkedIn, YouTube, Reddit, Tumblr, anywhere. And it's exactly the same ways you interact with an email list. Foundational skills. Dale Carnegie stuff. "How to Win Friends and Influence People."

      It's just a question of which one your customers are using. The rest is just implementation details.
      Signature
      "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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  • Profile picture of the author mysterrio
    I still enjoy the forum and I like some of the changes that have been made. I have been busy with so many other projects that I often just didn't take the time to post.
    Signature

    The Gurus Have Lied To You: Learn Internet Marketing For FREE. Don't Spend Another Penny Before You Read My FREE REPORT. Go here: http://internetmarketingdude.xyz

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  • Profile picture of the author Tom Addams
    stoltingmediagroup,

    I find your continued personal attacks quite bizarre and unprofessional to say the least. Your attacks say an awful lot more about you than me.

    1. If you would read through my posts, you'll learn that I don't rely on the traffic I receive from Warrior Forum. I actually stated that above. But I do consider it bad marketing to spend my time here and not use a signature.

    2. I have given you my reasons for posting here. The smallest reason of which is income-related.

    3. You call into question the quality of my worth here and elsewhere. I would ask anyone to review my contributions - here and elsewhere - and judge whether these statements are accurate for themselves.

    Arnold, despite your seeming dislike of me, let me say this: I wish you all the very best for the future. I really do.

    Cheers,

    Tom
    Signature

    I Coach: Learn More | My Latest WF Thread: Dead Domains/ Passive Traffic
    Learn one way I earn money: I give away free stuff.

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      • Profile picture of the author Tom Addams
        Originally Posted by stoltingmediagroup View Post

        Sensitive much?

        If you read "my" post, after you take a
        deep breath, you may notice a compliment or two directed at you. Most other comments including poop, newbies, low budget coaches, and hanging here with one liners to expose a sig file etc is "obviously" not about you.

        Whatever else I mentioned that you feel attacked"
        No hard feelings. At all. I think one of the problems is the fact that we're typing here. lol It'd be so much easier in person. Face to face. You lose a lot of the nuances of communication with text, no matter how good we are with it.

        Anyway - if I got the wrong impression, my apologies. I had the impression you didn't like me a great deal. And I'm such a nice guy. Quite a lovable, harmless little thing really. haha

        Cheers,

        Tom
        Signature

        I Coach: Learn More | My Latest WF Thread: Dead Domains/ Passive Traffic
        Learn one way I earn money: I give away free stuff.

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        • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
          Banned
          Spent the day outdoors. Have I missed anything???

          Cheers. - Frank
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          • Profile picture of the author Janice Sperry
            Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

            Spent the day outdoors. Have I missed anything???

            Cheers. - Frank
            No. 1234567
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          • Profile picture of the author Tom Addams
            Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

            Spent the day outdoors. Have I missed anything???

            Cheers. - Frank
            Not really. Salesgurus stole my hat. Other than that, slow news day.

            Cheers,

            Tom

            P,S: Cali16. I'm all out of thanks, or else I'd throw one in your direction. Super post!
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            • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Tom Addams View Post

              Not really. Salesgurus stole my hat.
              There is no accounting for taste, nor lack thereof. ;-)
              Other than that, slow news day.
              Cool. On that note I shall call it a day. Until the morrow, then.

              Cheers. Frank
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    • Originally Posted by Tom Addams View Post

      stoltingmediagroup,

      I find your continued personal attacks quite bizarre and unprofessional to say the least. Your attacks say an awful lot more about you than me.
      Sensitive much?

      If you read "my" post, after you take a
      deep breath, you may notice a compliment or two directed at you. Most other comments including poop, newbies, low budget coaches, and hanging here with one liners to expose a sig file etc is "obviously" not about you.

      Whatever else I mentioned that you feel attacked on let me know.

      I do not have any personal issues with you.

      I'm on a smartphone right now and typing on it sucks so ill leave it at that for now.
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  • Profile picture of the author @tjr
    So...anyone want to link to the types of threads/discussions they miss having around here?

    There's been plenty if complaining, plenty of calls to action. How about we get to that taking action part.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve Wells
    Some major corporations pay tons of money to have research done and help them find what people want and do not want.

    I had no idea nor was it my intention to start such a hot debate, but now that it is so hot, and its very informative to those who want to learn what people think, want and dont want, maybe I will get reimbursed...... I am cheap. lol!
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    • Profile picture of the author writeaway
      Originally Posted by Steve Wells View Post

      Some major corporations pay tons of money to have research done and help them find what people want and do not want.

      I had no idea nor was it my intention to start such a hot debate, but now that it is so hot, and its very informative to those who want to learn what people think, want and dont want, maybe I will get reimbursed...... I am cheap. lol!
      Niche-specific forums are awesome for SOCIAL PROOF and CROWDSOURCING.
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  • Profile picture of the author FreedomBlogger
    I think there is always going to be a spam problem in forums.

    Especially if the forum is growing rapidly!

    I still find a lot of great value here.

    Just my opinion!
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  • Profile picture of the author @tjr
    To play devil's advocate:

    Why would a real expert put themselves through the time suck of forum moderation (exponentially so on a place of this size and nature) for nothing more than a Sig file?
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    • Profile picture of the author Tom Addams
      Originally Posted by @tjr View Post

      To play devil's advocate:

      Why would a real expert put themselves through the time suck of forum moderation (exponentially so on a place of this size and nature) for nothing more than a Sig file?
      The fact that you have to ask means you really need to join some more IM forums.

      Cheers,

      Tom
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      • Profile picture of the author @tjr
        Originally Posted by Tom Addams View Post

        The fact that you have to ask means you really need to join some more IM forums.

        Cheers,

        Tom
        Or that I've been around this one enough to know that the people most worthy of the job have left or are barely around, and that you aren't bringing them back with the promise of sig links and whatever salary (if any) FL is willing to pay.
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        • Profile picture of the author Tom Addams
          Originally Posted by @tjr View Post

          Or that I've been around this one enough to know that the people most worthy of the job have left or are barely around, and that you aren't bringing them back with the promise of sig links and whatever salary (if any) FL is willing to pay.
          Or, that you've been around "this one" too long.

          Cheers,

          Tom
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          • Profile picture of the author @tjr
            Originally Posted by Tom Addams View Post

            Or, that you've been around "this one" too long.

            Cheers,

            Tom
            Considering "this one" is the topic of conversation...are you going to address the original point or continue an attempt to be evasive?
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            • Profile picture of the author Tom Addams
              Originally Posted by @tjr View Post

              Considering "this one" is the topic of conversation...are you going to address the original point or continue an attempt to be evasive?
              Remind me of the original point? No evasiveness here. I just need to know what you're on about.

              Cheers,

              Tom
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              • Profile picture of the author @tjr
                Originally Posted by Tom Addams View Post

                Remind me of the original point? No evasiveness here. I just need to know what you're on about.

                Cheers,

                Tom
                Here ya go:

                Originally Posted by @tjr View Post

                To play devil's advocate:

                Why would a real expert put themselves through the time suck of forum moderation (exponentially so on a place of this size and nature) for nothing more than a Sig file?
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                • Profile picture of the author Tom Addams
                  Originally Posted by @tjr View Post

                  To play devil's advocate:

                  Why would a real expert put themselves through the time suck of forum moderation (exponentially so on a place of this size and nature) for nothing more than a Sig file?

                  Gotchya!

                  I genuinely wasn't being evasive. A quick review of my posts here and everywhere else (and even the link I shared, where weeks ago I wrote about why I like sig files, and went on to share it with my list) is evidence of that. If anything I ruffle feathers on WF by being very much less than evasive. lol Anyway - no worries. Give you the answer now.

                  A chap like myself could never be invited to be a moderator, since I haven't been around here long enough. You typically see experts who've shown some allegiance to a board and have, thus, been around for years - often since it's very inception. But for those chaps and chapesses who do become mods, these are the benefits:

                  1. You receive ALL of the WSO content on WF. As Big Frank said earlier, "Information is Power." As usual, Frank is Spot. Freaking. On. This fact alone is worth more than any monetary salary or whatever. Take it from me - like many people here, I've paid enough cash to choke a dinosaur chicken on information. To get is all for free? Jeebus!!

                  2. Thousands upon thousands of sigs would be removed. But as a mod, you would have one of the view sigs in existence. That there? VALUE! When you run a community you have traffic leaks. You have folks posting links, folks with sigs in their links, folks paying for banners. Traffic. Leaks. In a perfect world all of those links pointing out would be yours, because as good as selling traffic is, it never holds a candle to knowing what to do with that traffic yourself and pointing it at your own platforms: your own sites or affiliate sites you're connected with. Anyway. When MOST of those traffic leaks are patched up - what happens? Traffic has to flow somewhere, right? Well if you own one of the few remaining sigs, MORE traffic than ever will be flowing to you. Nice!

                  3. Connections! One of the often overlooked benefits of a community like WF is the connections you make. Tell you what - pay me $10K a month and I'd be happy as a pig in plooop. But! Give me a chance to make elite business connections? I've earned more money over the years by networking than anything else I would have achieved on my own. I'm clever as hell, but I have my limits, and I'm clever enough to know I'll never be the best or the brightest. Building connections in business should be something everyone works at.

                  4. Respect! If you're "invited" to be a mod, that means the head honchos have done their homework and deemed you worthy of taking care of their multi-million dollar baby. You'd have to be an idiot not to respect such a mod. And what does respect get you? Listen . . . if people are willing to let a mod babysit something worth millions, if they gave that mod real power, the power to decide which WSOs stick, which people stick, and the power to disseminate information while - essentially - doing so as the mouth of WF, that freaking mod KNOWS his or her stuff. And I'll tell you something else - if any of those mods release their own products? I'm First. In. Freaking. Line. Me? I want to know what they know!

                  That answer your question?

                  Cheers,

                  Tom
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              • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
                Originally Posted by Tom Addams View Post

                Wrong. That's not what Robert suggested.



                Just to break it down for you:

                1. Remove sigs.
                2. "WF" invite people who "they consider" experts.
                3. In exchange for experts as moderators, the mods are allowed sigs as payment.

                Upshot: WF is no longer moderated by inexperienced IMers. Instead, it's ran by IMers with a wealth of experience.

                Likely results:

                1. Quality posts would be allowed. Not the typical drivel that currently has other boards pointing their fingers and giggling like loons.

                2. WSOs would be reviewed by people who actually know what they're doing, and only worthwhile WSOs would be accepted.

                3. A real mastermind section would be created and, trust me, everyone would want in. But they'd only be allowed in if they paid the price and deserved admittance.

                4. WF would be a different place. All the stupid threads? Gone. The idiots causing trouble? Blammo. Gone. The stupid nonsense threads? Yawn. GONE.

                When you put a bunch of experts together, I also imagine they'd come up with some pretty nifty ideas to enhance the community.

                Good, eh?

                Cheers,

                Your Buddy Tom

                Two things. First of all, you could never have a group of people really reviewing WSO's. Some of the WSO's out there are courses that would take months to try in order to properly evaluate. Others are software which would take hours of playing with to figure out if they are worthwhile. It is why they were not personally reviewed in the past and will not be in the future.

                Second, they had a group of experienced IM'ers moderating this place. That is not what Freelancer wanted, so they got rid of them and hired their own staff of in-house moderators.
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                • Profile picture of the author Tom Addams
                  Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

                  Two things. First of all, you could never have a group of people really reviewing WSO's. Some of the WSO's out there are courses that would take months to try in order to properly evaluate. Others are software which would take hours of playing with to figure out if they are worthwhile. It is why they were not personally reviewed in the past and will not be in the future.

                  Second, they had a group of experienced IM'ers moderating this place. That is not what Freelancer wanted, so they got rid of them and hired their own staff of in-house moderators.
                  1. Poppycock. The publishing industry review mammoth works of literature and they seem to be doing pretty well. Will it take longer to get your WSO out there? Sure. But I'd much rather have less WSOs that have been given the thumbs up by folks who know their stuff, than the rehashed nonsense I'm currently supposed to throw my money at.

                  2. Who cares what Freelancer wanted. We're not discussing that. We're discussing our ideas to make things better. Everyone's allowed an opinion. (Except salesgurus for taking my hat).

                  Cheers,

                  Tom
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                  • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
                    Originally Posted by Tom Addams View Post

                    1. Poppycock. The publishing industry review mammoth works of literature and they seem to be doing pretty well. Will it take longer to get your WSO out there? Sure. But I'd much rather have less WSOs that have been given the thumbs up by folks who know their stuff, than the rehashed nonsense I'm currently supposed to throw my money at.
                    I was not talking about the time it would take to get WSO's out there. I could care less about that. I'm talking about the giant time suck you would be putting on moderators.

                    On top of that, you are opening up a whole can of worms where a group of people gets to decide what is good and what is not. That will likely lead to stuff like under the table bribes, people playing favorites while blackballing others, etc.

                    Don't believe me? Just try to get a website into the DMOZ directory today. You either need to pay an editor or sleep with one to get in there.

                    I would rather just keep a free market system. Let buyers have their voices heard if something is good or not.

                    Originally Posted by Tom Addams View Post

                    2. Who cares what Freelancer wanted. We're not discussing that. We're discussing our ideas to make things better. Everyone's allowed an opinion. (Except salesgurus for taking my hat).
                    I'm just letting you know that this has been discussed with them ad nauseam. They have made it clear that they have no interest in changing the moderation methods.

                    You are beating a dead horse.
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                    • Profile picture of the author joseph7384
                      Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

                      I was not talking about the time it would take to get WSO's out there. I could care less about that. I'm talking about the giant time suck you would be putting on moderators.

                      On top of that, you are opening up a whole can of worms where a group of people gets to decide what is good and what is not. That will likely lead to stuff like under the table bribes, people playing favorites while blackballing others, etc.

                      Don't believe me? Just try to get a website into the DMOZ directory today. You either need to pay an editor or sleep with one to get in there.

                      I would rather just keep a free market system. Let buyers have their voices heard if something is good or not.



                      I'm just letting you know that this has been discussed with them ad nauseam. They have made it clear that they have no interest in changing the moderation methods.

                      You are beating a dead horse.

                      Not to mention the liability FL would bring upon themselves by vetting wso's
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                • Profile picture of the author @tjr
                  Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

                  Two things. First of all, you could never have a group of people really reviewing WSO's. Some of the WSO's out there are courses that would take months to try in order to properly evaluate. Others are software which would take hours of playing with to figure out if they are worthwhile. It is why they were not personally reviewed in the past and will not be in the future.
                  A way to perhaps stem the flow (because WSOs are a problem that I don't think you can totally solve) may be to go back to the old rule of the WSO being a special deal for an already existing product. Say it has to have been live for 3, 6 months maybe?

                  It'd detract some of the quick cash chasers possibly, although a motivated scammer would be able to wait things out. There's also the issue of FL probably hemorrhaging money on here without a constant stream of WSOs.
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                  • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
                    Originally Posted by @tjr View Post

                    A way to perhaps stem the flow (because WSOs are a problem that I don't think you can totally solve) may be to go back to the old rule of the WSO being a special deal for an already existing product. Say it has to have been live for 3, 6 months maybe?

                    It'd detract some of the quick cash chasers possibly, although a motivated scammer would be able to wait things out. There's also the issue of FL probably hemorrhaging money on here without a constant stream of WSOs.
                    The 'S' of WSO left a long time ago and I do not think you are going to get it back. It went from a place of special offers to just a general marketplace long before Freelancer stepped in. You would have some seriously pissed off people if you changed it. There are many, many sellers who make 100% of their income off that section of the forum today. Hell, there are WSO's about how to sell WSO's.
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                    • Profile picture of the author @tjr
                      Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

                      You would have some seriously pissed off people if you changed it.
                      I know, it'd be great !
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                      • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
                        Originally Posted by @tjr View Post

                        I know, it'd be great !
                        Totally agree. I always thought building your business around the WSO section was a silly business model.
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    • Profile picture of the author Robert Puddy
      Originally Posted by @tjr View Post

      To play devil's advocate:

      Why would a real expert put themselves through the time suck of forum moderation (exponentially so on a place of this size and nature) for nothing more than a Sig file?
      that would be a relatively small price to pay for the real gain which would be the exclusive brain storming and masterminding with the peer group.

      That bit is fricking priceless
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      • Profile picture of the author @tjr
        Originally Posted by Robert Puddy View Post

        that would be a relatively small price to pay for the real gain which would be the exclusive brain storming and masterminding with the peer group.

        That bit is fricking priceless
        Could you not create the peer group free of the forum? Then you have all the benefits of that without the time cost of moderating this place.
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        • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
          Originally Posted by @tjr View Post

          Could you not create the peer group free of the forum? Then you have all the benefits of that without the time cost of moderating this place.
          But then you don't get a shiny badge telling everyone you are a part of a super secret society, nor the constant stream of newbies to pedal your wares to....
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by @tjr View Post

      To play devil's advocate:

      Why would a real expert put themselves through the time suck of forum moderation (exponentially so on a place of this size and nature) for nothing more than a Sig file?
      Apparently you've never been introduced to Mr. Live stream.

      Yes, it's a time suck.
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  • Profile picture of the author dddougal
    The whole forum has gone to pot.

    I have been a member here since 2007 and i am sure its never been littered with such crap. Its unbelievable.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tom Addams
    Righto - I'm off to work. Be back later.

    Cheers,

    Tom
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  • Profile picture of the author Andre Slater
    I think that WF is like a bike...

    Everyone at first can't ride a bike.

    So you start off with a tricycle, then you move to a bike with training wheels...

    Then once you get a sense of balance you move to a big kid bike.

    You may still have the training wheels on but they are raised higher barely scraping the ground...

    Then you take off the training wheels and you start learning how to really ride.

    Then after awhile you begin to learn how to hit corners and ride really fast.

    Then you learn how to ride with no hands... WOW

    Then you learn how to do a wheelie and hit corners with no hands...

    Now your a pro and you have experience now you can journey onto your own adventures.

    -------

    That is what WF is...

    And now that WF is well known to have professional bike riders in this forum, you are going to get a bunch of tricycle riders asking dumb questions and wanting to ride as good as you, but never even stepped on a bike and want to skip the steps.

    Looking for the secret to riding like Lance Armstrong but not truly learning by doing.
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeFriedman
      Originally Posted by Andre Slater View Post

      Looking for the secret to riding like Lance Armstrong but not truly learning by doing.

      That's easy. You cheat like hell.

      Not your intention, but that is probably a better analogy than you realize.
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      • Profile picture of the author Andre Slater
        Originally Posted by MikeFriedman View Post

        That's easy. You cheat like hell.

        Not your intention, but that is probably a better analogy than you realize.
        lol yeah it works both ways but that was the only professional bike rider I could think of.
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  • This thread just keeps getting hotter and hotter by the minute. Let's hope this forum's owners take action and apply the positive solutions provided in this thread and implement them quickly.

    When I started out devouring the SEO mega pack, I came accross products that spoke very highly of the warrior forum, because they were WSO's.

    This motivated me to join this forum, only to find out later that it's ownership has jumped ship and moved on to greener pastures, along with the senior members of the forum who's WSO's I probably devoured ( & motivated me to join this forum in the first place), while this forum is getting lost in the herd, or evolving into a monster.
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  • Profile picture of the author salegurus
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  • Profile picture of the author talfighel
    I really think that this thread SHOULD be locked and closed for new posts. It is getting out of hand.
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    • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
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      • Profile picture of the author Tom Addams
        Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

        And here, the whole time, I thought that I was an arrogant, little SOB.
        Frank, for the last time, you're not little.

        Cheers,

        Tom
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        • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Tom Addams View Post

          Frank, for the last time, you're not little.

          Cheers,

          Tom
          True - but I am perceived as an arrogant SOB.

          That said, whenever someone accuses me of being arrogant I always tell them they feel that way because they don't possess the intellectual acuity that would enable them to discern the almost imperceptible fine line that separates arrogance from 'supreme self-confidence.' :-)

          Cheers. - Frank

          P.S. I'm working off of two cups of Hawaiian Kona, this morning. My legal limit. I'm rarin' to go. lol
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          • Profile picture of the author Tom Addams
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            • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
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    • Profile picture of the author salegurus
      Originally Posted by talfighel View Post

      I really think that this thread SHOULD be locked and closed for new posts. It is getting out of hand.
      Coming from someone who probably has never reported a post for being in the wronf Forum, reported a spammy post/thread or tried to add facts and realism to the forum instead of jumping in to answer every screwball, hairbrained, pie in the sky thread posted here...
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  • Profile picture of the author simonmks
    it is just that they are registered but in my opinion the WF is the best forum marketing.
    however, everyone is free to think as he wishes
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  • Profile picture of the author brada7x
    I've been around for nearly 6 years here. WF definitely used to have a lot more gold in it than it does today, but there are still some diamonds in the rough. A few services here and there are rock solid. There are still pleasant people that share golden bits of info. You just have to sift through the junk to find the gold. That's all.
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  • Profile picture of the author depotgang
    I think size...and then price increases for adverts and WSO hurt the forum...just my 2 center
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    • Profile picture of the author @tjr
      Originally Posted by depotgang View Post

      ...and then price increases for adverts and WSO hurt the forum...
      Man I'd love to hear this defended.
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  • Profile picture of the author DaveTheSinister
    I am by no means an experienced marketer, but I have a great interest in the subject and have been following the industry for a while. I joined this forum a while back, as you can see, not much posting but definitely been here lurking.

    All of these issues are not so much an issue of sig files or of spammy posts or threads and in my humble opinion has much more to do with peoples expectations and perceptions before they even get to this forum.

    The "newbies" are clearly showing huge misconceptions of what they believe MMO and this forum really is all about.

    If you ask me (which no one did, but Im gonna say anyway ;] ), this is all based on the bs beliefs created by all the trash MMO products out there.

    Unfortunately the most successful techniques used within this niche (MMO) are underhanded, dishonest, and down right ridiculous. This creates these ideas and beliefs in the average persons mind of what MMO is about. Just look at WSO titles, and they have been like this for much longer than the change of owner of this particular forum.

    But there is the catch, eh. Want to make massive money? You got to sell them on the dream or the benefit. Whats the dream or benefit to make MONEY online?

    There will never be a change in this forum in the regards everyone seems to have an issue with until new comers perceptions have been changed. Someone further up put it best, "There needs to be a clear separation between the forum and the market." (Im paraphrasing)

    In terms of other more experienced and helpful people... Not too often do I see someone here helping that doesnt in the long run have some form of investment to recoup from the possible leads provided here. I dont really have an issue myself with this but do have an issue with people who like to pretend as though they are some kind of expert and are actually doing more harm than good to new comers and the inexperienced. Everyone needs to have some kind of incentive, to want to hold someones hand and help them along to where they want to be.

    Was I just spewing a bunch of BS, perhaps... But at least I saved 15% on my car insurance by switching to....
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    • Profile picture of the author Sid Hale
      I just know I'm gonna piss somebody off here, but...


      Wow..... What Happened to This Forum?

      Might I suggest that Tom and Frank swap email addresses and continue their personal conversation offline?
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      • Profile picture of the author Tom Addams
        Originally Posted by Sid Hale View Post

        I just know I'm gonna piss somebody off here, but...


        Wow..... What Happened to This Forum?

        Might I suggest that Tom and Frank swap email addresses and continue their personal conversation offline?
        I doubt you'll upset anyone, Sid. I have far too much respect for you, to be honest. Some of our peers are so tiresomely bland and persistently negative. White noise, really. You have to wonder if there's a spark of life in them at all. One of those people says something potentially irritating? Well, if I even notice (unlikely), they're instantly tuned out. Their opinion means about as much to me as the piece of squid I just attached to my hook. You, on the other hand? Sid - when you speak, I listen. Simple as that. If it bothers you, it'd be my pleasure to refrain from further personal chit-chat. I'm wondering if Frank sees our chat as a clever means of highlighting the issue of non-IM chat on WF, though. You'd have to ask him - he's brighter than me. Me, I'm just failing to catch Bass and shooting the s**t on a Saturday.

        Cheers,

        Tom
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        • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Tom Addams View Post

          I'm wondering if Frank sees our chat as a clever means of highlighting the issue of non-IM chat on WF, though. You'd have to ask him - he's brighter than me.
          Yes, I generally have a surreptitious, ulterior motive in most things that I do. Life is short. Multitasking is mandatory. Maximizing the expenditure of any and all effort should always be the goal.

          I can do this, all day. :-)

          Cheers. - Frank
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          • Profile picture of the author Steve Wells
            Replies: 244
            Views: 5,809

            WOW! I could be a millionair if I could learn how to CAN and DUPLICATE this type of response everytime!
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            • Profile picture of the author The Niche Man
              Originally Posted by Steve Wells View Post

              Replies: 244
              Views: 5,809

              WOW! I could be a millionair if I could learn how to CAN and DUPLICATE this type of response everytime!
              Good point, the "What's Wrong with this Forum" type threads is the hot topic of late, but this is probably the most active in relation to time.

              They're always like a Warrior Forum family reunion that always brings back the "old school" Warriors who like to wax about the good ole ... glory days. In addition to the regulars who complain about the newbies and the newbies who try to make sense of it all. Interesting.

              Now hopefully people won't saturate the thread topic as a marketing sig ploy, right? Yea, probably will.
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              • Profile picture of the author Steve Wells
                Originally Posted by The Niche Man View Post

                Good point, the "What's Wrong with this Forum" type threads is the hot topic of late, but this is probably the most active in relation to time.

                They're always like a Warrior Forum family reunion that always brings back the "old school" Warriors who like to wax about the good ole ... glory days. In addition to the regulars who complain about the newbies and the newbies who try to make sense of it all. Interesting.

                Now hopefully people won't saturate the thread topic as a marketing sig ploy, right? Yea, probably will.
                Yep, I did not intend for it to blow up, I was honestly and simply curious, and wondering if I was being skeptical or just being a little biased in my views.

                I really loved offering my graphic design services to this forum and helping people out as much as possible within reason, and will probably do so on a smaller scale, just not sure how profitable it would be to advertise here again. I guess I gotta at least try it out.

                I started my own apparel line and have been traveling the country promoting and selling my line, but would love to be able to do graphic design projects in between down time, and this forum was my starting ground for online marketing and my online graphic design business.
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              • Profile picture of the author Mike Anthony
                Originally Posted by The Niche Man View Post

                They're always like a Warrior Forum family reunion that always brings back the "old school" Warriors who like to wax about the good ole ... glory days. In addition to the regulars who complain about the newbies and the newbies who try to make sense of it all. Interesting.
                I think they try and make sense of it but i doubt they will because it really doesn't make a lot of sense. Its been a year since the change in ownership. Wouldn't good marketers and business people have moved on to another subject rather than still after all this time be moaning about how another business is being run.

                That these threads are still being batted about by some of the same people indicate to me at least newbies are not the only problem. Do you see the Kerns of the world in here moaning about how WF runs their business? Nope....too busy on his own.

                I participated in some of these discussions early on but beyond (like at the moment) being mystified as to why people are still bothering they don't hold my attention for very long anymore.
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      • Profile picture of the author Sid Hale
        Originally Posted by Tom Addams View Post

        Yes, get over yourself. This has gone on long enough. A couple of Warriors exchanged 2 or 3 off-topic pleasantries on a Saturday afternoon. Big deal. You'll have us in front of the firing squad next.

        Tom
        And all I did was point out the incongruity of posting that conversation in a thread devoted largely to discussing the inappropriate insertion of meaningless and/or uninformed posts by others. Then I asked simply that you take it somewhere else.

        Originally Posted by Sid Hale View Post

        I just know I'm gonna piss somebody off here, but...


        Wow..... What Happened to This Forum?

        Might I suggest that Tom and Frank swap email addresses and continue their personal conversation offline?
        Just a gentle suggestion.
        Maybe I was too subtle?

        From your initial response, I thought that you understood, and it could have easily stopped there.

        But of course, sometimes a person's ego just can't take chastisement, no matter how gently it is offered. It seems that some want a separate set of standards to apply to themselves, and I guess I should have understood that from the git go - my bad.
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  • Profile picture of the author AYCE
    This is a great time for the people who really have what it takes to take charge. It comes in waves, it's a new wave brotha, take advantage!
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  • Profile picture of the author Sid Hale
    Great...

    You two understood your motives (highlighting the issue of non-IM chat on WF), but your point was lost on all but a few - including myself.

    Not being as bright as you, many would interpret your subtle game as "the pot calling the kettle black" - and then what would you have accomplished?

    Personally, I'm hoping that some of the newbies are reading the 4 or 5 threads pertaining to quality posts that are currently active in this section of the forum and learning from them. I would hate to see any potential gain undermined by misunderstanding your not-so private conversation.
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    • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Sid Hale View Post

      Great...

      You two understood your motives (highlighting the issue of non-IM chat on WF), but your point was lost on all but a few - including myself.
      Well, it's not fair to ask or expect us to lower our level of discourse to reach the lowest common denominator. In everything I do in life I try to encourage others to rise up, certainly not to my unattainable level of intellectual prowess, but certainly a tad out of the evolutionary swamp. Are we not men?
      Not being as bright as you, many would interpret your subtle game as "the pot calling the kettle black" - and then what would you have accomplished?
      Honestly, if we would need to explain it to you, it would probably be lost on you.
      Personally, I'm hoping that some of the newbies are reading the 4 or 5 threads pertaining to quality posts that are currently active in this section of the forum and learning from them.
      And hope springs eternal.
      I would hate to see any potential gain undermined by misunderstanding your not-so private conversation.
      If they are following closely, I'm sure they are picking up other messages that will assist them as they move forward in life.

      Cheers. - Frank
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      • Profile picture of the author Sid Hale
        Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

        Well, it's not fair to ask or expect us to lower our level of discourse to reach the lowest common denominator.
        No one asked you to lower your level of discourse... simply move it to a more appropriate venue.

        If Tom won't give you his email address - I believe there is an "Off Topic" forum here that you might try.
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        • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Sid Hale View Post

          No one asked you to lower your level of discourse... simply move it to a more appropriate venue.

          If Tom won't give you his email address - I believe there is an "Off Topic" forum here that you might try.
          Seriously? A couple of random posts out of 250+? With all the crap I have to wade through on a daily basis?

          Please - get over yourself.

          Cheers. - Frank
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          • Profile picture of the author Sid Hale
            Get over myself???

            That's really funny posted just over your sig
            Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

            "Narcissists need love, too. That's why I love myself so deeply." - Big Frank
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            • Profile picture of the author Tom Addams
              Originally Posted by Sid Hale View Post

              Get over myself???

              That's really funny posted just over your sig
              Yes, get over yourself. This has gone on long enough. A couple of Warriors exchanged 2 or 3 off-topic pleasantries on a Saturday afternoon. Big deal. You'll have us in front of the firing squad next.

              Tom
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            • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
              Banned
              Originally Posted by Sid Hale View Post

              Get over myself???

              That's really funny posted just over your sig
              1. I believe that whatever is contained in the space allowed for a signature should be utilized in the most informative and honest way possible.

              2. If you knew me as well as I know myself, you'd be powerless not to love me, too.!

              Cheers. - Frank
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              • Profile picture of the author Sid Hale
                I agree with that Frank.

                Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

                I believe that whatever is contained in the space allowed for a signature should be utilized in the most informative and honest way possible.
                I don't take exception to your sig file whatsoever... but if you'd like, I'll look up the definition of the word "incongruity" for you.

                Maybe my comment was too subtle for you.
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                Sid Hale
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                • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
                  Banned
                  Originally Posted by Sid Hale View Post

                  I agree with that Frank. I don't take exception to your sig file whatsoever... but if you'd like, I'll look up the definition of the word "incongruity" for you.
                  Whatever is required for you to placate your own sense of self-importance is fine by me. We all have our needs. Who am I to judge?
                  Maybe my comment was too subtle for you.
                  I'm still pondering that. It takes time for these deep concepts to permeate and percolate. I'll keep you posted, though.

                  G'night. - Frank
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                  • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                    It's not trading a couple of pleasantries - at least not as some others see it. It's taking over a thread though I don't for a moment believe that was the intention.

                    When you start arguing with every viewpoint except your own you've highjacked a thread. If you are with a group of people and the conversation is only between two of you with others shut out....friends would tell you to "get a room"....

                    One thing happening on this forum is a loss of civility. We (and I include myself) should be better than that.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Chris Worner
                      Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                      It's not trading a couple of pleasantries - at least not as some others see it. It's taking over a thread though I don't for a moment believe that was the intention.

                      When you start arguing with every viewpoint except your own you've highjacked a thread. If you are with a group of people and the conversation is only between two of you with others shut out....friends would tell you to "get a room"....

                      One thing happening on this forum is a loss of civility. We (and I include myself) should be better than that.
                      Personally I miss the old days around about the time I first joined the forum, the gnashing of teeth and furious debate and the calling people out that used to happen in threads. Made for some very entertaining and informative threads.
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                      • Profile picture of the author @tjr
                        Originally Posted by Chris Worner View Post

                        Personally I miss the old days around about the time I first joined the forum, the gnashing of teeth and furious debate and the calling people out that used to happen in threads. Made for some very entertaining and informative threads.
                        The current exchange is reminiscent of that, minus an IM philosophy to argue over and the low level doxxing that leads to one side getting banned.
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                      • Profile picture of the author DaveTheSinister
                        Originally Posted by Chris Worner View Post

                        Personally I miss the old days around about the time I first joined the forum, the gnashing of teeth and furious debate and the calling people out that used to happen in threads. Made for some very entertaining and informative threads.
                        Thats it! IM CALLING YOU OUT!

                        I just made a call to Narnia, they dont know any Chris Worner. Especially a Chris Worner who is a ghost and has red eyes. Im on to you "Chris." If that is your real name....
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        • Profile picture of the author Tom Addams
          Originally Posted by Sid Hale View Post

          No one asked you to lower your level of discourse...
          Originally Posted by Sid Hale View Post

          You two understood your motives (highlighting the issue of non-IM chat on WF), but your point was lost on all but a few - including myself.

          Not being as bright as you, many would interpret...
          Many would interpret your own comments above as meaning this:

          "Can you lower your level of discourse, because I - myself - don't understand it."

          Cheers,

          Tom
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    • Profile picture of the author Tom Addams
      [DELETED]
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        [DELETED]
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      • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Tom Addams View Post

        You see - now this is why I hold you in high-esteem, Sid. You're a positive, commanding force in this vicinity, on a personal crusade - if you will - to turn your altruistic bent in the direction of our less-experienced members. I know they appreciate you for it. Heck, we all do.

        Once more, and sincerely, accept my apologies for stepping out of line here. You're not the kind of man I want to even so much as irk. I'm sorry, Sid.

        Newbies? Sid - as always - is spot on. I doubt I can make up for my lapse, but I guess I can at least try.

        A couple of posts I made just before Frank and I began chatting earlier:



        Could help you, if you're into TeeSpring and Fiverr.

        And, similarly, one I added to:



        You might also like to dig around here:


        You'd be much better off reading Sid's posts, but - hey - if you have 3 minutes to kill...

        Cheers,

        Tom
        Maybe you could visit the classifieds section:
        Warrior Forum Classified Ads
        And pay for some self promotional adverts
        instead of hijacking other peoples threads with them.
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        • Profile picture of the author Tom Addams
          Originally Posted by lgibbon View Post

          Maybe you could visit the classifieds section:
          Warrior Forum Classified Ads
          And pay for some self promotional adverts
          instead of hijacking other peoples threads with them.
          I don't believe I was doing anything wrong. The post has been deleted, but Sid mentioned the fact that newbies would find limited useful information in this vicinity. I figured I would show them the posts I made earlier today, prior to my chat with Frank, that I consider useful. If, by posting helpful information on WF, I'm being self-promotional, then are you suggesting I follow your example, instead?

          Cheers,

          Tom
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          • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
            Banned
            Originally Posted by Tom Addams View Post

            I don't believe I was doing anything wrong.
            And that's exactly "What's Happened To This Forum"
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            • Profile picture of the author Tom Addams
              Originally Posted by lgibbon View Post

              And that's exactly "What's Happened To This Forum"
              That's spurious. Let me restate it, then:

              I know I wasn't doing anything wrong.

              Sid, rightly or otherwise, pointed out that the chat between myself and Frank was not conducive to any profitable IM discussion.

              In order to let Sid and anyone else know that I rarely chit-chat (translation: pretty much "never"), I simply replied by supplying some examples to prove it.

              I pointed to a collection of useful posts that I'd made prior to the chat and even invited Sid or anyone else to review all of my other forum posts, by providing the link to them.

              That's how confident I am that my posts are worthwhile.

              Last thing I'll say is this . . .

              Although reasonable, pleasant people will likely never chip in for fear of receiving your wrath (or those of your cohorts), they will see a few things.

              1. They'll note my previous posts in this thread.
              2. They'll note Franks.
              3. They'll note yours and those of others.

              What they may then do is form on opinion of us all. Based on those posts. Further, they may look at our posts elsewhere on WF, and form an even stronger opinion.

              I don't know about you - but I'm very happy about that.

              Cheers,

              Tom
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  • Profile picture of the author @tjr
    I hate when mom and dad fight.
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  • Profile picture of the author deepakrajput
    [DELETED]
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  • Profile picture of the author Ryan2929
    I was on this forum years and years ago, from the mid to late 2000s. Then I was away up until about a year ago when I started lurking again, just reading.

    To be honest, I see little change. All the problems people are lamenting right now existed back then too. There was still a "new guard" and "old guard". There was still a ridiculous amount of bogus advice and signature spam. There was still a metric crap ton of zero value WSOs. There were people who were considered top posters and authority figures who had blatantly fake identities and lied through their teeth about who they were and what they earned. The get rich quick mentality was everywhere. Newbies asked the same questions then that get asked now.

    Honestly, from the eyes of someone who was here for quite a while, went away for quite a while, and is now back, I'd say very little has changed. At least not in my opinion.

    Then, as now, one had to do a lot of sifting to find the gold nuggets in a pan full of dirt.
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  • Profile picture of the author joseph7384
    But Kay, Dan and Claude derail threads down in the basement all the time so I guess we can call Frank and Tom the top floor derailment team.

    I actually enjoy it, it's better then seeing some of the how to make $xyz threads.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    And some of the conversation here, between supposed experts, is exactly why this idea of experts doing much of anything won