For Those Who Think Anybody Can Do This

by Steven Wagenheim 167 replies
We've had many a discussion the past couple of weeks about running your
own home business and many here have said that anybody who wants to do
this can make this work.

I've said the opposite, that not everybody is cut out for this and got plenty
of slack for it.

Well, here is just one sample of the proof that not everybody is cut out for
this business.

This is an email I received recently. The only thing I edited was the person's
name so as not to embarrass them.

***********************************
Hello!

I need Help I do not have a penny to use how can i make an internet
business ...


Regards,
<name withheld>
***********************************

Okay, at the risk of sounding prejudice, this person is from a non English
speaking country (obvious from the email) and can just about communicate.

In further correspondence, trying to actually help this person, I tried to
get some idea of how bad their financial situation is and what skills they
have so as to find out if there is anything they could do to maybe earn
just a few dollars.

After countless hours of assistance, the person has almost no command
of the English language, has no money and has no skills. I tried to suggest
Bum Marketing but there is no way this person can write an article that
will get read. His English is that bad. He can't afford to outsource to get
the articles written and has no skills to barter to have the articles written
for him.

In short, I wracked my brain trying to think of something that this person
could do. And with 5 plus years of marketing smarts behind me, I couldn't
come up with a thing.

Okay, maybe I'M the stupid one. Maybe a real crackerjack marketer could
turn this person into a profitable home business owner.

If so. If you still believe that anybody can do this, post your suggestions
below.

Remember, he has no skills and no money and can just about speak English.

I couldn't help him.

Maybe YOU can.
#main internet marketing discussion forum
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  • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
    Originally Posted by Richard Odell View Post

    Does it have to be in English - why not point him towards his own local market.

    May be less competition there?

    Rich
    Doing what Rich? He has no skills, no knowledge of anything, no interests
    that are marketable (been down that road too)

    So doing what?
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Richard Odell View Post

      Perhaps he can learn English and create a course as he progresses - again for his local market.

      Also perhaps a local portal that he can create cash in hand with?

      Rich
      Perhaps he can learn English?????

      You're kidding right?

      The language with to, two and too?

      The language where read and read are spelled the same but sound
      completely different when spoken and where red, that sounds like one
      of them, means something entirely different?

      The language where dove and dove are spelled the same but sound
      completely different and mean two completely different things?

      The language where even I can't spell half the words in the frickin
      dictionary and I've lived here all my life?

      You're kidding right?

      But I'll tell you what Rich. If you're so sure you can help this guy, why
      don't I give YOU his email address and you work with him.

      I'll write to him first and tell him that I have a friend who can help him.

      And I'll make that offer to anybody else who thinks this person has a
      snowball's chance in hell of running a successful home business.

      Oh, and about the portal site Rich.

      How's he going to put one up? He has no money for hosting. He has no
      web design skills and no money to outsource to have it done. So how's
      he going to get this done?

      A portal site? Are you smoking crack? I can just about put one of those
      together and I have 6 months of solid web design training.
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      • Originally Posted by Richard Odell View Post

        Talk about being negative!

        You asked the question - I gave a couple of replies...

        If the guy wants you make a success of anything he has to get off his own arse and do what the rest of did and learn by himself. Money or no money you can make in this business, you know that and so do I but, you cannot lead a horse to water if it doesn't have the first inclination to do so in the first place.

        Plenty of second language Warriors here and a load more that have dragged themselves up from the gutter from nothing (me included).

        Next time someone replies to your posts - please have a little courtesy and remember we all came from nowhere!!!

        My respect for you at this moment is running a little thin.

        Rich
        It's this kind of thinking that leads to so many business failures. You can posit all the possibilities you like. At the end of the day, the only thing that matters is results.

        As for berating Steven for being “negative”, that's a bogus statement! He's not being negative -- he's requesting a REALITY CHECK! Positive thinking is no substitute for being able to reason, imagine and implement...
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        • Profile picture of the author jhongren
          Hi, I am just wondering does that mean that those people in poverty can't break out of the cycle just because they have no skill, no money and only speak little English?

          Just a Thought,
          John
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        • Profile picture of the author Martin Luxton
          Richard

          Nobody is more generous with their time than Steven.

          His reality is that this guy is a lost cause but he still tried to help him by starting this thread. I admit he does come over as a bit exasperated. This is also a Steven very different from last year because he is (veeery slowly) learning to protect his time. How many people here would even have bothered to persist with the poor guy after the first email?

          There are obviously two very opposed schools of thoughts on this. I have had a few very concrete examples this year in both my working life and personal life that tell me Steven is making the right decision, FOR HIM.

          Steven has made an offer. If people think the guy can make it why don't they accept the challenge and prove Steven wrong? I'm sure he would be one of the first people to congratulate the successful coach.

          Martin
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          • Profile picture of the author Martin Luxton
            Wow,

            This is a difficult thread to keep up with. You prepare a post and by the time it's published there are 4 or 5 more replies.

            Yes, people can break out of the poverty cycle, but they have to have a lot of drive.

            Learning English for many people is not easy. If you learnt the language in 6 months you are probably a natural born linguist.

            Maybe the guy has skills, but Steven was looking for skills he could use in IM.

            There is sometimes a fine line between negativity and realism and often it's difficult to know where it is.

            Martin
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            • Profile picture of the author preets
              Originally Posted by Martin Luxton View Post

              Maybe the guy has skills, but Steven was looking for skills he could use in IM.

              There is sometimes a fine line between negativity and realism and often it's difficult to know where it is.

              Martin
              You mean web designing , email marketing , blogging etc. I think these are the minor things , anybody can learn these things in few weeks.

              Just my views
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              • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                Originally Posted by preets View Post

                You mean web designing , email marketing , blogging etc. I think these are the minor things , anybody can learn these things in few weeks.

                Just my views
                (shakes head). It took me 6 months to make my first buck online.

                It took me 6 months before that to learn basic web design skills.

                Email marketing? I'd been writing for over 30 years in a variety of disciplines
                and it took me months to make my first sale through email marketing.

                Don't even get me started on how long it took me to create my first blog
                that was worth even going to.

                (shakes head again)...Maybe I'm cynical.
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                • Profile picture of the author preets
                  Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                  (shakes head). It took me 6 months to make my first buck online.

                  It took me 6 months before that to learn basic web design skills.

                  Email marketing? I'd been writing for over 30 years in a variety of disciplines
                  and it took me months to make my first sale through email marketing.

                  Don't even get me started on how long it took me to create my first blog
                  that was worth even going to.

                  (shakes head again)...Maybe I'm cynical.

                  I am sorry Steven , I didn't mean to hurt you.
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        • Profile picture of the author Peter Bestel
          My last 'job' was as a business adviser. I managed a team of other business advisers and it was our job to assess and assist with business planning and guide the would-be entrepreneurs through applying for funding. Further to that we were responsible for 'looking after' them for the first three years of trading. I did this for 6 years.

          Personally, I assessed about 200 businesses every year; about 30 of them actually finished their plan and approached funders. Of the other 170 that didn't get that far about 165 didn't bother finishing or found it was just too tough. The other five were gently persuaded by me to go get themselves an ordinary job - they just weren't cut out for it, and they all agreed. It was part of my job to tell it how it is/was. If I helped someone that I knew couldn't make it, I'd see them through the start and the inevitable end of their business - not a nice experience for me and certainly not for them.

          Yes, it is possible for most people to run their own business, but just because it's possible doesn't mean that they should. My experience tells me that 85% of people who express an interest in becoming self-employed haven't got the right stuff to stick at it.

          Peter
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          • Profile picture of the author Ricter
            I didn't really get the impression from Steven's description that this guy is a slacker in any way...
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          • Profile picture of the author rapidscc
            If we focus on making the poor guy an article writer, maybe it wont work. Somethings just doesnt fit. Like a square peg on a round hole.

            Lets look at the guy first. He's asian (like me)
            he has access to the internet (he was able to e-mail)
            he can click a mouse (oohhh get the drift?)

            maybe the best thing we could do is find a great PPC (pay per click) site
            lets register and then lets invite him as an affiliate

            the PPC site to recommend would be a really paying one, we don't want to recommend a scam with this poor guy. (I've been scammed by PPC's before, believe me it feels bad.)

            The ppc site should have a sign up bonus and another bonus for every affiliates that we sign up.

            Then let's tell this guy to share the PPC site with his affiliate link which is under us (so we'll also earn a bit) to just ten of his friends personally. Then through the internet forums, then through chat sites.

            Now, anybody knowings ofs anys PPCS siteee taht really peys up?

            I want to do what I just said.
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            • Profile picture of the author clint48
              For those of you that think any one can do anything they want to.

              Try being a heavy weight champion of the world at 5' 9" and weighing 150 pounds.

              Try being a center on a professional basket ball team at 5' 9"

              A couple of you may do it, for the 99.9% that can't do it I hope there is someone like Steven that can help you not waste the next 20 years of your life trying.

              I'm sure Mike Tyson and Michael Jordon would say the same thing Steven said to most people that try.

              Clint
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              • Profile picture of the author Ron Douglas
                Originally Posted by clint48 View Post

                For those of you that think any one can do anything they want to.

                Try being a heavy weight champion of the world at 5' 9" and weighing 150 pounds.

                Try being a center on a professional basket ball team at 5' 9"

                A couple of you may do it, for the 99.9% that can't do it I hope there is someone like Steven that can help you not waste the next 20 years of your life trying.

                I'm sure Mike Tyson and Michael Jordon would say the same thing Steven said to most people that try.

                Clint
                No anyone can not do anything they want to. But we're not talking about being a world class professional athelete. We're just talking about finding a way for this guy to make a little money online. I think he can do it and shouldn't be dismissed just because he can't write articles or ebooks.
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                • Profile picture of the author clint48
                  Originally Posted by Ron Douglas View Post

                  No anyone can not do anything they want to. But we're not talking about being a world class professional athelete. We're just talking about finding a way for this guy to make a little money online. I think he can do it and shouldn't be dismissed just because he can't write articles or ebooks.
                  Ron, I am not saying this guy can't do it, but there are certain things that you need in order to make money on the Internet. If someone can see that you don't have those talents then I think the honorable thing to do is not try and waste his time. It's always great to give someone encouragement, but a big responsibility because this is someones life and if he can't do it and 95% don't then you have to live with the fact you wasted years of this mans life.

                  We are all here to do so something, and sometimes what we want to do is not what we would be most suited for, that is when we need an honest opinion from someone that knows the ropes. I think most people can find a way to make a little money Ron, but most that try can't make over $500.00 a month in this business.

                  Clint
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                  • Profile picture of the author Roy Carter
                    How about you create a $7.00 or $9.95 report, then create some videos for him that show how to drive traffic to your site.

                    He follows the videos and carries out the instructions on a daily basis, submitting to directories etc etc.

                    You agree to go halves on whatever the site makes and meantime he's building you a list and at the same time learning stuff that he can use for himself in the future to promote other people's products.

                    Initially he's carrying out grunt work but he's also making some money and learning as he goes along.

                    Roy
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                    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                      Originally Posted by Roy Carter View Post

                      How about you create a $7.00 or $9.95 report, then create some videos for him that show how to drive traffic to your site.

                      He follows the videos and carries out the instructions on a daily basis, submitting to directories etc etc.

                      You agree to go halves on whatever the site makes and meantime he's building you a list and at the same time learning stuff that he can use for himself in the future to promote other people's products.

                      Initially he's carrying out grunt work but he's also making some money and learning as he goes along.

                      Roy

                      Roy, great plan. Here's the problem. I don't have the time. I don't just
                      whip up a report to sell. It takes time and I have other things that I have
                      to do to keep my business running and pay the bills.

                      But yes, for somebody who has the time and is willing to do it, this is
                      not a bad plan.
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                    • Profile picture of the author rperales
                      Personally...

                      ...people that are lazy voluntary and not because of a chemical inbalance meaning
                      they can't help themselves..

                      ..are those that are out of work and they sit in their porch and their yard is totally
                      junky when they have all the time to clean it up but don't..

                      I am a non techie but yet I learn to build websites, headers, forms, etc..due to the
                      generousity of those Gurus that always giving things to help regardless..

                      People like Aurilius Tin..I know I spell it wrong but he is a warrioir that only takes
                      copy and paste graphics and can be edit with Net composer, reports, video I mean
                      and a whole lotta other things and stuff..I don't speak english very well or spell it
                      even though I am an American..

                      I also understand that a lot of wrong things that are said about people have no
                      deception and are more mechanical and can't help themselves like the lazy procras..
                      with a chemical problem..

                      No, I can never hate anybody period and you shouldn't either..but, there are more
                      and bigger problems for most folks and that is their believe systems..

                      I'm not going to talk about them except for one and that is " hand me down believe
                      system."

                      Here is what I'm saying..Mind you that I am not talking about everybody but most
                      of them and that is.." this folks had better hand me down info growing up than the
                      rest of us and that is why they are able to succeed and most don't..

                      So the majority of folks have to start way below than some of this folks and you now
                      know what's the cause of put downs..

                      This folks with the better hand me down info can succeed no matter what action
                      they take because their brain and body are already familiar with what they are trying
                      to succceed with..While the rest of us takes time and most don't know that it really
                      take practice a lot more practice to get our system to become familiar with the new..

                      Now, most of us know the negaive stuff that were put in our heads while growing up
                      I'm not even going to mention because you can still hear them in this here forum
                      and possibly other forum too..

                      As much as what I've done all those years there are people that hate me and I am
                      talking about people that I have help so good deeds don't mean crap to some people..

                      But do not hate them..we only hating ourselves so we are the ones that loose on the
                      long run..Now, I'm no saying there is hate in this forum but it sure can lead to that!.

                      I really wish people would stop saying stuff that is non-constructive because I know
                      the reason why people talk about others but I'm not saying..

                      rey

                      P.S. I personally know that I have step on a lot of toes in this forum and I'm not liked
                      for speaking my mind which we all have one way or the other and it's good as long
                      as it don't get out of hand..Speaking our minds has been a privillage that Allen Says
                      have given us and I personally appreciate that even though it's a marketing forum..
                      thanks Allen..

                      Personally, most folks try to send their kids to school including mine to learn so when
                      we gow up we wouldn't have to work hard..I don't have the gall to come in here and
                      tell somebody else kids that they have to work their butt off!
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                      • Profile picture of the author ExRat
                        Hi Reynaldo,
                        This folks with the better hand me down info can succeed no matter what action they take because their brain and body are already familiar with what they are trying to succceed with..While the rest of us takes time and most don't know that it really take practice a lot more practice to get our system to become familiar with the new..

                        Now, most of us know the negaive stuff that were put in our heads while growing up
                        Bingo. As Steven mentioned, similar conversations have been going on here for the last few days. I couldn't put it into words like you have, but the people who feel that they can do anything (and therefore don't understand why everyone doesn't feel the same) just have no comprehension of what it's like to be born and bred (or not) into a different kind of world.

                        Perhaps they should try and understand the opposite mentality a little more just in case they end up marrying someone from that background - or (shudder) unwittingly raising children of a similar ilk. Ironically it's often the parents that are too busy being successful that do just this. Life works in funny ways like that.
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          • Profile picture of the author naruq
            One of the things he can do is attempt to learn some english. After he has mastered some english, he needs to develop himself as a person before he attempts to start a business.
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            • Profile picture of the author Peter Bestel
              Originally Posted by Tom Borowski View Post

              Do you need to speak English in order to develop as a person?


              Mais oui! :p
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            • Profile picture of the author Fabian Tan
              Not everyone can become a singer.

              Not everyone can become a pilot.

              Not everyone can become anything he wants to be. You do need your brain to be 'wired' in a certain way to be good at certain things.

              Look at professional sports. Let's take soccer. Can anyone become a professional? No. Some lack the commitment. Some lack the talent. Some just do not want it bad enough. Some treat it as a hobby. So that's why they don't go into it full-time.

              Exactly the same with Internet marketing.

              But the thing is, in Internet marketing, you're in control of a lot of factors for success (or failure). Nobody is there to 'judge' you or 'talent scout' you or 'promote' you. You can succeed without any of that nonsense.

              Fabian
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              • Profile picture of the author Ron Douglas
                Originally Posted by Fabian Tan View Post

                Not everyone can become a singer.

                Not everyone can become a pilot.

                Not everyone can become anything he wants to be. You do need your brain to be 'wired' in a certain way to be good at certain things.

                Look at professional sports. Let's take soccer. Can anyone become a professional? No. Some lack the commitment. Some lack the talent. Some just do not want it bad enough. Some treat it as a hobby. So that's why they don't go into it full-time.

                Exactly the same with Internet marketing.

                Fabian
                I respectfully disagree. Professional sports require unique physical talents. Starting a business does not.

                You can train your brain to think like a business person. Heck, you can start a million dollar business with a great idea and relationships with people who know how to make it work.
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                • Profile picture of the author Fabian Tan
                  Originally Posted by Ron Douglas View Post

                  I respectfully disagree. Professional sports require unique physical talents. Starting a business does not.

                  You can train your brain to think like a business person. Heck, you can start a million dollar business with a great idea and relationships with people who know how to make it work.
                  Well, try changing a person's principles or beliefs. Ever tried it yet?

                  In business, it's principles, not talent that is the unmovable factor. ;-)

                  Fabian
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                  • Profile picture of the author Ron Douglas
                    Originally Posted by Fabian Tan View Post

                    Well, try changing a person's principles or beliefs. Ever tried it yet?

                    In business, it's principles, not talent that is the unmovable factor. ;-)

                    Fabian
                    Beliefs and principles can be taught. Skills can be acquired with practice. Talent is God given which is why I shot down your comparison of business to pro soccer. You seem to now agree with me on the talent part.

                    Are you assuming that Stephen's guy doesn't believe it's possible to make money online?

                    I didn't know that this was about trying to change this guy's beliefs, principles, philosphy.

                    I just thought we were trying to find a way for him to make money online. I just outlined several ways in my earlier post.
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            • Profile picture of the author James Schramko
              "You can't steer a parked car" -
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            • Profile picture of the author Frank Bruno
              If this guy has learned enough English as indicated in his e-mail to you, then he has what it takes already to earning money online.

              Because he already has learned the broken English which really isn't that uncommon at all, then you can do many many things online, because he understands English.

              Even if he didn't understand English he still could make money online.

              Not everything revolves around writing....

              He could create videos with pictures, music, graphics, and whatever else and promote affiliate products on the video sharing sites.

              He could also just become an affiliate marketer, and sell other people's products and services very easily without knowing much English.

              A lot of times affiliate marketing you don't need to write anything except slap a link up.

              Although having some English writing skills would be helpful, it really is not necessarily required.

              Again if he learned just a little bit of English that he has already learned that I believe he has what it takes to make money online.

              Frank Bruno
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            • Profile picture of the author HeySal
              It sounds like a lot of people here are eating the Secret for lunch. If it is all so easy - why isn't EVERYONE doing it? It seems that everyone wants to make the "easy cash" yet aren't in the least prepared to put the work in, aren't capable of the logical or analytical skills necessary. I'm sorry - everyone doesn't have a soaring IQ or creative gifts -- some don't even have an imagination.

              When I was teaching I asked one person what he would like to do if he could do anything. He chose "garbage collecting" because it was something he already knew he could handle -- I asked again and added that he pretend he had all the education, money, and everything needed to do ANYTHING. Again he wanted to collect garbage because it brought in a decent living and he knew how to do it. I tried and tried and could not get this guy to even imagine what it would be like to do something really exciting -really achieve something or do something incredible. He couldn't even IMAGINE it. I pointed him to book after book and he just didn't "get" the drift and put them down one after the other. He simply didn't have the imagination - or the drive. Not everyone does.

              Sure there are people that aren't that brilliant that actually hit on a great idea and break the barrier and ditch the mold, but that isn't a high percent. If it were, who wouldn't be successful at something? The truth is there are failures out there and those who just lack what many of you might have and take for granted. It takes a special person to want something then go beyond want to make it real. Not everyone is going to do that - ever - no matter what you try to teach them, they will just sit and want. They will patiently sit and watch you do it for them.

              Some people are just dependent and there is nothing you or any book on success will do to change that.

              Now Steven has been solid gold - he took time away from his schedule to help a stranger brainstorm his situation. I've seen people in here ditch him for that. To those - how many of these emails could you handle before it became a destructive burden on your own life and earnings? Remember - these are freebies, not income. Do you for one moment think this is the first and only request Steve has gotten? He has even very sincerely asked that if you think you can help, do so. I don't see any takers. Does that mean that those of you who have had voice here still feel superior in your integrity.

              If you were able to beat odds against you - you are to be commended. You "get it". Want isn't good enough for you - you are able to motivate yourself toward action. Good for you. But do NOT condemn someone else for not devoting their life to those who have the odds against them. We have to choose our battles. You can't save the whole world.

              I barely know website building myself - Sure, I can build a salespage and design a page (as well as my artistic eye(hahahahahahahahaha) will allow for it), but to install it into a server is still on the list of to-dos for me. Yet even my petulant, crass, and limited knowledged little self gets requests for help that turn out to be no more than "will you do this for me" venues. Am I bad for not just forgetting I have a life and things to learn yet and do these people's work for them? Sorry - I'm not that giving, and I'm not that much of a fool. I fully understand the Secret and still know that there are many to which it's principles will remain secret no matter how many times they read that damned thing.

              My question is:
              Which of you raging positivists are going to take up the call to prove to Steve how wrong he is and make the seeker a success and show us all how easy it is for ANYONE to make it on the net? I am sure that Steve will be just appropriately humbled when he sees the guy cranking in cash from his "own" endeavors.
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              • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                It sounds like a lot of people here are eating the Secret for lunch. If it is all so easy - why isn't EVERYONE doing it? It seems that everyone wants to make the "easy cash" yet aren't in the least prepared to put the work in, aren't capable of the logical or analytical skills necessary. I'm sorry - everyone doesn't have a soaring IQ or creative gifts -- some don't even have an imagination.

                When I was teaching I asked one person what he would like to do if he could do anything. He chose "garbage collecting" because it was something he already knew he could handle -- I asked again and added that he pretend he had all the education, money, and everything needed to do ANYTHING. Again he wanted to collect garbage because it brought in a decent living and he knew how to do it. I tried and tried and could not get this guy to even imagine what it would be like to do something really exciting -really achieve something or do something incredible. He couldn't even IMAGINE it. I pointed him to book after book and he just didn't "get" the drift and put them down one after the other. He simply didn't have the imagination - or the drive. Not everyone does.

                Sure there are people that aren't that brilliant that actually hit on a great idea and break the barrier and ditch the mold, but that isn't a high percent. If it were, who wouldn't be successful at something? The truth is there are failures out there and those who just lack what many of you might have and take for granted. It takes a special person to want something then go beyond want to make it real. Not everyone is going to do that - ever - no matter what you try to teach them, they will just sit and want. They will patiently sit and watch you do it for them.

                Some people are just dependent and there is nothing you or any book on success will do to change that.

                Now Steven has been solid gold - he took time away from his schedule to help a stranger brainstorm his situation. I've seen people in here ditch him for that. To those - how many of these emails could you handle before it became a destructive burden on your own life and earnings? Remember - these are freebies, not income. Do you for one moment think this is the first and only request Steve has gotten? He has even very sincerely asked that if you think you can help, do so. I don't see any takers. Does that mean that those of you who have had voice here still feel superior in your integrity.

                If you were able to beat odds against you - you are to be commended. You "get it". Want isn't good enough for you - you are able to motivate yourself toward action. Good for you. But do NOT condemn someone else for not devoting their life to those who have the odds against them. We have to choose our battles. You can't save the whole world.

                I barely know website building myself - Sure, I can build a salespage and design a page (as well as my artistic eye(hahahahahahahahaha) will allow for it), but to install it into a server is still on the list of to-dos for me. Yet even my petulant, crass, and limited knowledged little self gets requests for help that turn out to be no more than "will you do this for me" venues. Am I bad for not just forgetting I have a life and things to learn yet and do these people's work for them? Sorry - I'm not that giving, and I'm not that much of a fool. I fully understand the Secret and still know that there are many to which it's principles will remain secret no matter how many times they read that damned thing.

                My question is:
                Which of you raging positivists are going to take up the call to prove to Steve how wrong he is and make the seeker a success and show us all how easy it is for ANYONE to make it on the net? I am sure that Steve will be just appropriately humbled when he sees the guy cranking in cash from his "own" endeavors.
                Sal...I think I love you


                Thanks
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              • Profile picture of the author Lance K
                Originally Posted by HeySal View Post

                It sounds like a lot of people here are eating the Secret for lunch. If it is all so easy - why isn't EVERYONE doing it?
                I don't think anyone said it is easy. There are a host of possible reasons why EVERYONE isn't doing it...
                • Not EVERYONE wants to
                • Lack of belief in themselves
                • Misunderstanding what it takes (many apparently think "opportunity" and "entitlement" are synonyms.
                • No purpose
                • No self-discipline
                • Etc.
                If almost any would be entrepreneur would stop and take a good hard look at how unproductive they really are when somebody else is in charge of telling them what to do...

                ...they should be able to figure out that they'll be even less productive when they're responsible for making themselves do the things that need to get done.
                Signature
                "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
                ~ Zig Ziglar
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            • Profile picture of the author Mary Laine
              I guess it can be done, but how much time is needed to babysit? Does anybody here really want to hold this persons hand and help him? For free?
              I'll tell you, if I could get Steve W to help me, I would be over the top. English is my native tongue, and I have an English degree, and I am still struggling to understand everything especially the technical stuff . I have given myself 3 years, and I just finished my year one with a big $110.92 cheque from Google. That's about...1 penny an hour.
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              • Profile picture of the author Darrell Hagan
                Steve, here's a different take on this for you.

                I have a longtime friend (30+ years) who just retired from working at the same mill job for 42 years. He scoffs at what I do for a living no matter how much money I make because in his mind its not real because it isn't physical and I don't drive to/from it every day.

                My friend is extremely old school, and (bless his heart) he isn't the sharpest knife in the drawer either.

                There is no way my friend would be able to succeed in his own IM business for a number of reasons. First, he simply doesn't think in business terms. He's worked "fer da man" for 42 years. Second, he'd be doomed to failure right away because he doesn't believe it can work. Remember, to him its not a real job and never will be.

                I could go on but I think everyone gets the point.

                Some people simply are not cut out for this type of work. My friend is a high school graduate (class of 1965), and probably does posess the basic skills but there is simply no way that he will ever pursue an IM business or any other type of business, even if he were broke. Its just not in him.
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                • Profile picture of the author Daniel Molano
                  But he's not looking to work in IM, is he?

                  I think this post is oriented towards people who are actually interested in working in the IM business, if someone is not even interested well of course he is doomed to failure.
                  Signature
                  Como Ganar Dinero Por Internet - Spanish Make Money Online Site

                  Daniel Molano
                  - LinkedIn Profile
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                  • Profile picture of the author Darrell Hagan
                    Originally Posted by Daniel Molano View Post

                    But he's not looking to work in IM, is he?

                    I think this post is oriented towards people who are actually interested in working in the IM business, if someone is not even interested well of course he is doomed to failure.
                    Think you missed my point. OP said:

                    Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                    We've had many a discussion the past couple of weeks about running your
                    own home business and many here have said that anybody who wants to do
                    this can make this work.

                    I've said the opposite, that not everybody is cut out for this and got plenty
                    of slack for it.
                    The friend whom I mentioned above is such an opposite as Steve is talking about, but for different reasons than the person he refers to. Point is, if my friend did want to run an IM business, he still couldn't do it....
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            • Profile picture of the author OnlineMasterMind
              It's not alwasy easy to see greatness in people...

              True, business requires some brains... let's not kid outselves...

              But I find the biggest limitation for people isn't talent... it's their attitude and internal beliefs...

              Someone with a burning desire can often accomplish what others would view as impossible.

              Where there's a will there's a way.

              I don't know the specifics of this guy... but I do know this...

              If he were to find a way to become successful online... it would pale in comparison to some of the accomplishments others humans throughout history have achieved facing far greater adversity.

              Besides, how productive is it making the case for what is NOT possible?
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            • Profile picture of the author ExRat
              Hi,



              Anyone got any spare pocket lint? I've lost all mine on bets...
              Signature


              Roger Davis

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              • Profile picture of the author Lance K
                I'll go without pocket lint myself and give ever last fiber to anyone who puts that David Lee Roth quote in their sig file. How much do you need, Roger?


                Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

                Hi,



                Anyone got any spare pocket lint? I've lost all mine on bets...
                Signature
                "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
                ~ Zig Ziglar
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              • Profile picture of the author ExRat
                Hi Richard,

                Does this mean you are in the state of the white eared Elephant?
                Do you think I could earn some money that way? I'm trunkurally challenged...
                Signature


                Roger Davis

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            • Profile picture of the author JonnyAndrews
              Here Is Your Solution...

              First, he must be 100% YES on these 2 questions...

              Question #1: Is he actually willing to do this?

              Question #2: Can he access a computer with some level of frequency?

              If yes, we move on to the solution...

              After reading this thread I honestly can say the ONLY thing for this dude, with zero cash and zero English is Squidoo/blogger bum marketing in his own language.

              There has got to be some sort of affiliate/CPA network out there who pays/speaks his language.

              If I'm not mistaken people buy stuff all over the world in languages other than English...

              The hurdles would then be if PayPal will work in his neck of the woods.

              If not there are options.

              IF the 2 obstacles of finding affiliate networks and actually getting the money into his hands can be hurdled... I see little reason why he can't pull this off.

              The reason I say that is because IF the networks provide service to his area it indicates there are buyers online buying stuff.

              Where will he come up with the copy? This is why people created Babel Fish.

              Yahoo! Babel Fish - Text Translation and Web Page Translation

              (Yes, I know this isn't perfect, but that's why he needs the next tool... so he can re-work it)

              PLR/MRR and get it translated enough to where he can understand what's being said.

              From there he can use www: OpenOffice.org - The Free and Open Productivity Suite to type it up.

              He can use blogger/squidoo as his sites along with TinyURL.com - shorten that long URL into a Tiny URL to hide the links.

              I'm sure there will be lots of traffic for something in his native tongue.

              So there you have it.

              Language... not a problem.

              Products/copy... not a problem.

              Affiliate Networks/Getting Paid... no idea

              Willingness To Make The Effort... no idea

              FYI: You can also use the babel fish method to translate your instructions telling him what/how to set all this up.
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              • Profile picture of the author JonnyAndrews
                I wanted to post this again because I think it got lost in the shuffle...

                STEVEN... I hit you with a PM... I need 2 questions answered from you and I'll be able to
                take this a step further.

                Originally Posted by JonnyAndrews View Post

                Here Is Your Solution...

                First, he must be 100% YES on these 2 questions...

                Question #1: Is he actually willing to do this?

                Question #2: Can he access a computer with some level of frequency?

                If yes, we move on to the solution...

                After reading this thread I honestly can say the ONLY thing for this dude, with zero cash and zero English is Squidoo/blogger bum marketing in his own language.

                There has got to be some sort of affiliate/CPA network out there who pays/speaks his language.

                If I'm not mistaken people buy stuff all over the world in languages other than English...

                The hurdles would then be if PayPal will work in his neck of the woods.

                If not there are options.

                IF the 2 obstacles of finding affiliate networks and actually getting the money into his hands can be hurdled... I see little reason why he can't pull this off.

                The reason I say that is because IF the networks provide service to his area it indicates there are buyers online buying stuff.

                Where will he come up with the copy? This is why people created Babel Fish.

                Yahoo! Babel Fish - Text Translation and Web Page Translation

                (Yes, I know this isn't perfect, but that's why he needs the next tool... so he can re-work it)

                PLR/MRR and get it translated enough to where he can understand what's being said.

                From there he can use www: OpenOffice.org - The Free and Open Productivity Suite to type it up.

                He can use blogger/squidoo as his sites along with TinyURL.com - shorten that long URL into a Tiny URL to hide the links.

                I'm sure there will be lots of traffic for something in his native tongue.

                So there you have it.

                Language... not a problem.

                Products/copy... not a problem.

                Affiliate Networks/Getting Paid... no idea

                Willingness To Make The Effort... no idea

                FYI: You can also use the babel fish method to translate your instructions telling him what/how to set all this up.
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              • Profile picture of the author Tony_D
                [DELETED]
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                • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                  Quick story.

                  My wife is a school teacher. She's been teaching math in high school for
                  over 25 years. She is very smart.

                  But every time she has to do something at home on her computer, I have
                  to show her how. I show her over and over and she still can't get it. It's
                  been I don't even know how many years but my wife and computers is like
                  death. And this is something she needs for her job, so it's not like it's
                  something that she can just shrug off. And trust me, she works at it, but
                  she just can't get it. And I'm talking simple stuff too.

                  So what does that mean?

                  It means she's not cut out for working with computers. That's all it means
                  and all the "rah rah's" that will say, "Oh but she can do it if she wants to"
                  can rah rah until hell freezes over. She's been at this since the days of
                  Windows 3.1 and STILL can't use these things.

                  Some people just can't do certain things.

                  Even if they have to and want to.

                  How can I make it any clearer?
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                  • Profile picture of the author Darrell Hagan
                    Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                    .....Some people just can't do certain things.

                    Even if they have to and want to.

                    How can I make it any clearer?
                    Exactly. I couldn't agree more, and that was the whole point of my earlier post on this.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Terry Crim
                      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim
                      .....Some people just can't do certain things.

                      Even if they have to and want to.

                      How can I make it any clearer?



                      Originally Posted by Darrell Hagan View Post

                      Exactly. I couldn't agree more, and that was the whole point of my earlier post on this.


                      I agree 100% with this and I have MANY case studies and examples to back this up. Though that does not mean someone can't make a lot of money online in their own business. Just that THEY are not the one to do whatever that job is.

                      Outsource, JV, Barter, People that offer free help... I have done things I personally had no clue how to do, I should say I have had things created, using these various methods. The lack of knowledge in something does not mean they can't create a business around it.

                      Look at many of the I.M. Guru's, many of them shot up into the star light and didn't know how to do anything. I can name a few right now but I wont.

                      LOL

                      - Terry
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                  • Profile picture of the author violationz
                    Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                    Some people just can't do certain things.
                    I don't see why that's so hard to comprehend.

                    Some people can write brilliant songs like "Stairway to Heaven" while others can dedicate 30 years to writing songs and doin' gigs yet still amount to nothing. Getting a record deal and "making it big" is obviously something they can't do... and I know plenty of people who have tried!

                    In reality the only way I can see this cat making money via marketing is if he outsources all of the work - judging by the "... I do not have a penny..." part of the e-mail I would say this is something he can't do at this point in his life.

                    There is a solution though.

                    One way he could make money is via licensing - send him a link to Bob Serling's free "Million Dollar Licensing" videos (if they're still available) and say best of luck. This is something he could do locally so the language barrier wouldn't matter.

                    If/once he lands just one profitable deal he could then take that money, outsource everything required and begin his home business. Create a profitable business, invest some of that money in creating another business, repeat.

                    Beyond that, I have no idea what to tell him.
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            • Profile picture of the author MADMONEY
              Greetings,

              Here's my two cents.

              Everyone seems to want to be successful, whether it's online or off-line. I've had friends that have seen my success online, said they wanted to do the same thing, but didn't!

              I even offered to set up websites for them. Did they take me up on this offer? NOPE!

              They really want to be successful, right?

              My personal belief is that, most people want success, but are unwilling to work for it!

              Not all of them have the necessary skills or talents to do this business, but I don't believe that that's the true obstacle. With enough determination, you can overcome whatever stands in your way.

              Granted, some people have more talents and skills than others, and going into business will be easier for them. If they have the right attitude!

              When I ran a car dealership. I always believed that there were sharks and then there was FOOD!

              Sharks, are those people that want success/money and are willing to do whatever it takes to achieve it. Of course within the guidelines of ethics and law.

              Food, are those people that say they want success/money but are not willing to pay the price to obtain it. You know the kind, they talk a good game, but when it comes down to delivering the goods. They always have an excuse!

              I don't know what this person's ambition level is and how much he or she is willing--- to pay the price to achieve success.

              But, I can definitely understand Steven's frustration.

              So to answer Stevens question- it may be that this individual has too many obstacles in order to do this business right now. The best advice would be to have him begin working on this, as others have suggested.

              He or she may never be able to do Internet marketing, or it may take a long time to overcome these obstacles.

              As a personal coach, these people are frustrating and unless they are willing to a do every single thing, I ask them to do. I just won't work with them!

              Bottom Line:

              In all new business startups and indirect sales the failure rate is usually around 80%. Why should the Internet be any different? because it's not about how simple or easy this business really is, but more about the individual and his or her willingness to do whatever it takes.

              Doing whatever it takes means obtaining the necessary skills and knowledge and applying them to achieve your goal or aim. That's my definition!

              Just My Humble Opinion.

              Mad Money
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              • Profile picture of the author D.K. Magnus
                I send a P.M. using my best writing skills(such as they are) and I get a two sentence reply. This guy gets four hours because he doesn't speak good English??!!!

                Steven's threads have alot of useful information on them, even this one.

                Darnit, sidetracked again.

                Now where's that Affiliate Marketing Crash Course Repost...............
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                • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                  Originally Posted by D.K. Magnus View Post

                  I send a P.M. using my best writing skills(such as they are) and I get a two sentence reply. This guy gets four hours because he doesn't speak good English??!!!

                  Steven's threads have alot of useful information on them, even this one.

                  Darnit, sidetracked again.

                  Now where's that Affiliate Marketing Crash Course Repost...............
                  Trust me, it is rare that I will spend 4 hours with somebody. The guy had
                  seen one of my sites and that's why he wrote to me.

                  I wish I had kept all the emails. You'd understand how things got so out
                  of control.

                  And yes, that was MY fault. I should not have let it get out of hand like I
                  did.

                  Point is, I spent more time with him than with people I've mentored for
                  a week and still couldn't help him.

                  Maybe John's right. Maybe I'm just a lousy mentor. But I gave it everything
                  I had and couldn't come up with a thing.

                  I guess I should be grateful that I can put food on my own table. :rolleyes:
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            • Profile picture of the author NMP
              Everyone can do it. Not everyone can make from it.
              Everyone can have dayjob. Doesn't mean they do it well.

              Why not give him a rss template and add some paid
              for clicks service. Won't make him rich but at least
              a start.

              Then tell him to spin around on every forum out
              there. If not he can say his name and ask for help
              and use his sigfiles all over.

              Heck there must be forum even in his language.

              OR you can admit that you are not the right guy to
              help him. Even though you are a man, you can't win
              every time ;-)
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            • Profile picture of the author Michael Gentry
              He could still be successful but has a long way to go and would be up to him how badly he wants it.
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            • Profile picture of the author IMChick
              Ok, Warriors, Time to Step Up...

              A collaboration, a one-month/several week/coaching by willing warrior volunteers may be all this guy needs to hit on his strengths and stay away from his weaknesses.

              Or not.

              On it's face, I agree with the "nots" as in 'not gonna' happen", however,

              all of us started at the zip, zilch, nada place. How different is he, really?

              Get that pocket lint in escrow, begin a group project and see what happens.

              Personally, I would tell the 'seeker on the path' two things:

              1. Thank you for your interest but I do not accept private coaching at this time. While I would love to, I am not set up for it.

              2. Your best opportunity is to work throught Ed Dale's 30 day challenge. It's a structured program with quite a lot of information that you are looking for, and it is free. If you participate, in addition to learning enough to launch a business, your English language skills will also get exercise. Thirty Day Challenge

              So there are my 2 cents. It would be nice to find someone like Stephen who is as concerned about my business skills and wealth welfare!
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              • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                You know, for the few people who have ripped me a new one for this thread,
                have you bothered to notice that I took 4 hours of my life out to help this
                individual before I finally ran out of ideas?

                For one thing, I owed this person nothing. I do these kind of things because
                I truly enjoy helping new people and those willing to work, but when the
                guy sent me his email asking me to set up a business for him, that's where
                I drew the line and said that he's going to have to do this on his own. I gave
                him suggestions as to what to do, all of which he shot down (as I said, I
                didn't go into the whole 4 hour exchange here) and finally I just ran out of
                ideas.

                He lives at home so he doesn't work. He has no skills at all, period, none,
                nada, zilch.

                When I asked him what his interests were, they were all things that are
                very hard to monetize. Very little market for them if any at all. He'd be
                wasting his time trying to make any kind of money off of them.

                He currently belongs to one of those biz ops and what he does to promote
                it is he copies and pastes canned ads into FFA submitters.

                That's all he knows how to do. He can't really communicate with people
                outside of his native language and the people he knows online there can't
                help him.

                So he turned to me when he saw one of my sites.

                That is the Reader's Digest of this story.

                I'm good. At least I like to think I am. But I'm not a miracle worker.

                And ironically enough, I was kind enough at the end of it all NOT to say to
                him that this isn't for him. I simply told him that I couldn't help him anymore.

                But certainly you can see where this is a very difficult, if not impossible
                case.

                Is it humanly possible that this person can make money online? I guess it
                is. But I'd hate for my life to have to depend on him making even $5.
                That's how sure I am that he really should just get out of the house and
                get some kind of unskilled labor kind of job. That way at least he'll be
                earning some money and will be able to move away from home.

                And no, I didn't ask how old he is.

                Anyway, there you have it.

                I stand by what I said.

                Not everybody is cut out for this business.

                If you want to believe differently, that's your choice.

                Who am I to argue?
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          • Profile picture of the author trafficwave
            Originally Posted by Tom Borowski View Post

            If you're cut out to run your own business, you will find a way to do it and overcome whatever obstacles lay in your way. And you will not approach other people expecting them to do all the work for you. With that mindset, you're better off in a job.

            Tom
            Couldn't agree more. I get similar emails on a weekly basis from folks that are "less than proficient" in the english language. The basic idea that I get from these emails is:

            "I know you are a good friend of mine because I have been getting your emails. Here is a long list of all the things I cannot do:

            * write english
            * read english
            * sell
            * design web sites
            * scrape together sixty cents
            * etc...

            But if you will 'do the needful' and set up all my tools, create all my ads, write all my letters, handle all my advertising, and get me to where I am making money, I will gladly pay you from my profits."


            Now, I won't even begin to assume that Mr. W owes this person anything or that he hasn't done everything within his power to help. From what I can see, reading between the lines, Mr. W has extended every courtesy to this individual.

            BUT ... has this individual done everything within THEIR power?

            I've told my own kids and I tell my clients: I can HELP anyone that is doing something. But what I will NOT do is actually do the work for you.

            I've got a brother-in-law from Germany. When we first met, he could barely string together a full sentence in English. What little German I could remember from high school was enough to order a beer and a brat. Communicating was painful. His small children from a previous marriage spoke ZERO english.

            6 months later, the kids were speaking better english than MY kids and his english had improved exponentially. His earning capacity has increased exponentially, as well. Not only did he immerse himself in to learning our language, he has learned all sorts of new business and technical skills and is doing VERY well for himself in New Mexico.

            Bottom Line for this guy (in my opinion): He is going to have to take on the task of learning this ridiculous english language. He is going to have to take on the task of either identifying something he CAN do OR learning a new skill that he can charge for.

            I mean, really... people still charge for "desktop publishing" simply because there are so many people who are simply unwilling to learn it for themselves.

            So there's my 2 cents tossed in to the conversation.
            Signature

            -----------------------------
            Brian Rooney
            TrafficWave.net Email Marketing AutoResponders
            Email Marketing Blog

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            • Profile picture of the author Fabian Tan
              I think 'anyone can do anything' is another of those myths that we have - 'the earth is flat', 'job security' etc etc But the first myth is harder to kill because the eternal optimists and 'self-development gurus' have been spouting them ever since the beginning of time and people pick these beliefs up and waste their time.

              People will believe or follow anything they like or comforts them.

              Fabian
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          • Profile picture of the author JohnQuiet
            I thought becoming "self employed" is what we all do when we no longer can "hold" a "real job" in the "system"! LOL.

            I just wanted to inject some thought on limits. While most of us assume we have them, the prevailing school of thought is that they are self-created. Nevertheless, they are still limits on what we "currently" can do, say or accomplish. The real question is, "What does the individual believe?" And how long, after faced with continual adversity to overcome their "limits", will they continue to believe they "can" accomplish their goal? The answer to that question only lies within the individual.

            NOTHING IS IMPOSSIBLE, however certain outcomes may be probable given the persons current state of being......


            Originally Posted by Tom Borowski View Post

            In general, I think a minority of people on this planet aren't cut out for work in general, much less starting their own business. The majority of people are able to get a job, and another minority is able and willing to run their own business. So, in effect, running a business is NOT for everyone............

            Tom
            Signature
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            Discover Your "It" for FREE at FindYourIt.com
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by Richard Odell View Post

          The guy has to start somewhere - win or fail, that's where we have all been.

          As for reality checks - if Steve with all his 5+ years of experience cannot help this guy who can? Perhaps you with all your knowledge of local portals? Perhaps a Warrior from the same part of the world he comes from?

          He has to start from some where and under his own steam. No amount of hand holding will give the guy first experience and that is what makes or breaks someone trying make it in this industry.

          Bogus statement,far from it!
          Richard, I absolutely agree 100% with what you just said.

          All I'm saying is this. This person may very well not be able to make this
          work for him with all he has going against him, thus my statement, IM
          is not for everybody.

          That is, I guess, what has me so puzzled, that some people believe that
          anybody can do this no matter what.

          And I'm sorry if I came off a little rough before. It wasn't my intention. I'm
          just frustrated.

          Most people, don't even email for help. They're so lazy, they can't even
          do that. This person at least wrote to me and asked, which is more than
          I can say for a ton of folks.

          But when you have almost nothing to work with, what are you supposed to
          do? I mean, I have mentored many people, successfully, but I don't even
          know where to begin with this person. We're just about able to communicate
          with each other.

          Well, like I said, if anybody thinks they can do a better job, it's all theirs.
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          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
            Originally Posted by Richard Odell View Post

            Steve I could never be mad with you for long. I have too much admiration for your contributions to this forum.

            Its a crying shame that some folks cant be helped, what ever you do for them. I look around this forum and see so many here who are the complete opposite. The people that have taken on a second language, fought they're way back from the depths of debt, endured real hardships just to make it - whilst the others expect it all to be a push button solution.

            Like you it frustrates the hell out of me - I started out literally with nothing more than a few floppy disks and access to a library computer, the only advantage I had was that I was hungry enough for success, had the wolf at the door and a family to feed.

            I have failed more times than I can remember, but I'm still here, still making money and learning more each and every day that comes along.

            People come up with a lot of theories why people fail in this game - I think its a no-brainer...

            ...you either do or you don't, and if you don't - you ain't hungry enough!

            Richard, it's okay. I can be a jerk at times.

            But what puzzles me more than anything is that we seem to have two
            diametrically opposite views here.

            Those who strongly agree with me and those who absolutely believe that
            somebody with a brain the size of a fig could be successful online.

            I guess I'm just trying to wonder where these views come from. Is it from
            our own personal experiences? That can't be the case because I picked
            myself up from a total failure to what I am today.

            For me, I believe it's because of what I've actually seen in the people I
            have communicated with in the 5 plus years I've been doing this. You
            can't believe some of the emails I get. Some of them, I don't even
            understand what they're saying to me and I literally have to write back to
            them, "I don't mean to be rude but I don't understand what you're saying.
            Do you speak English? If not, do you have somebody who can translate
            for you?"

            Now you'd think that is these people had folks who spoke their language
            to go to, they'd go to them. So obviously they don't, at least not somebody
            who understands IM.

            So where do you send them? What do you tell these people? They have
            no clue and can't even communicate effectively enough to get a clue.

            I admit, I am not trained to help people in this situation. I can successfully
            mentor somebody who has an average command of the English language
            and at least a fair desire to succeed. As a matter of fact, with THOSE
            people, I'd go as far as to say that I'd be 75% sure that they WILL
            succeed if they follow my instructions.

            But there is only so much I can do.
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            • Profile picture of the author David Raybould
              Hi Steven,

              interesting post.

              I think the reason that it's tempting to say that "anyone" can do this IM thing, is to the people that can do it, it really does feel like anyone could do it.

              But it's just not true. And I don't mean just people like your email buddy either, I'm talking about the sheer laziness and procrastination on the parts of some people.

              I've had quite a few of my friends ask me what I'm doing, how come I make so much money but don't go out to work etc, and I've tried to help them all.

              But it always comes down to the same thing. They just don't do the work needed, so I stop helping them.

              Silly really.

              Anyway, sorry to go off on a tangent, but people holding themselves back is one of my pet peeves lol

              David
              Signature
              Killer Emails. Cash-spewing VSLs. Turbocharged Landing Pages.

              Whatever you need, my high converting copy puts more money in your pocket. PM for details. 10 years experience and 9 figure revenues.
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              • Profile picture of the author Thomas Wilkinson
                In this instance I have to put on my cynic hat and
                agree with Steven, Sal, et al. From my days as an
                investment coach I know that there are some people
                who couldn't make money if they had a copy of next
                Monday's Wall Street Journal. It just isn't there. It
                doesn't mean they are doomed to a life of failure and
                despair. My Brother-In-Law had a very successful
                career as a paper shuffling bureaucrat in a government
                job and managed to retire after 33 years without ever
                having accomplished a freakin' thing.

                T.W.
                Signature
                When you hear someone telling you what YOU can't do, they are usually talking about what THEY can't do.
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            • Profile picture of the author Lloyd Lopes
              I agree with Steven....sort of....

              I recon that 70% of people cant do it , 25% of people will do OK in it and 5% of people will rock at it.
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      • Profile picture of the author Thomas Belknap
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        Perhaps he can learn English?????

        You're kidding right?

        The language with to, two and too?

        The language where read and read are spelled the same but sound
        completely different when spoken and where red, that sounds like one
        of them, means something entirely different?

        The language where dove and dove are spelled the same but sound
        completely different and mean two completely different things?

        The language where even I can't spell half the words in the frickin
        dictionary and I've lived here all my life?

        You're kidding right?

        But I'll tell you what Rich. If you're so sure you can help this guy, why
        don't I give YOU his email address and you work with him.

        I'll write to him first and tell him that I have a friend who can help him.

        And I'll make that offer to anybody else who thinks this person has a
        snowball's chance in hell of running a successful home business.

        Oh, and about the portal site Rich.

        How's he going to put one up? He has no money for hosting. He has no
        web design skills and no money to outsource to have it done. So how's
        he going to get this done?

        A portal site? Are you smoking crack? I can just about put one of those
        together and I have 6 months of solid web design training.

        My wife learned English. In fact, she speaks and writes better than most native English speakers. She dedicated a lot of time to learning so it is possible.

        Most people are not capable of doing what she has. Just like most people won't see the kind of success that others have enjoyed simply because they don't put the effort and time into it.
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    • Profile picture of the author ripsnorta2
      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

      Doing what Rich? He has no skills, no knowledge of anything, no interests
      that are marketable (been down that road too)

      So doing what?
      I'm not sure I buy that. Everyone has some knowledge or interest that they can use. Sure it might not be marketable in the sense of being able to make millions, but there might be enough there to start something small.

      Is it possible that you've been unable to determine much from your conversations precisely because of the language gap?

      I've had conversations with minimal-English speakers before where I knew that they weren't understanding what I was asking, and I was finding it difficult to determine what they were saying.

      My suggestion to this fellow would be to work out what interested him and start a blog targeted to his nationality and language.

      That will teach them how to write, how to drive traffic, and perhaps how to market the blog. After the blog is established, then he can figure out how to monetize it.

      Will this give him a home business? Not necessarily, but even if it doesn't, he will have increased his knowledge in a lot of areas. With that knowledge he may be able to leverage into a real home business down the track.
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Originally Posted by ripsnorta2 View Post

        I'm not sure I buy that. Everyone has some knowledge or interest that they can use. Sure it might not be marketable in the sense of being able to make millions, but there might be enough there to start something small.

        Is it possible that you've been unable to determine much from your conversations precisely because of the language gap?

        I've had conversations with minimal-English speakers before where I knew that they weren't understanding what I was asking, and I was finding it difficult to determine what they were saying.

        My suggestion to this fellow would be to work out what interested him and start a blog targeted to his nationality and language.

        That will teach them how to write, how to drive traffic, and perhaps how to market the blog. After the blog is established, then he can figure out how to monetize it.

        Will this give him a home business? Not necessarily, but even if it doesn't, he will have increased his knowledge in a lot of areas. With that knowledge he may be able to leverage into a real home business down the track.

        Great John...Would YOU like his email address?
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

      Doing what Rich? He has no skills, no knowledge of anything, no interests
      that are marketable (been down that road too)

      So doing what?
      Steve,

      Tell him to start copying PLR reports into his own language and copycat marketers but in his own language for his own country!

      Mike Hill
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      • Profile picture of the author Ricter
        Originally Posted by Mike Hill View Post

        Steve,

        Tell him to start copying PLR reports into his own language and copycat marketers but in his own language for his own country!

        Mike Hill
        Now there's an idea! If he gives credit to the original author, to avoid plagarism, no worries, his readers need his translation services anyway!
        Signature

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  • Profile picture of the author Martin Luxton
    Steven

    I think the kindest thing would be not to get his hopes up.

    If the oft-quoted 95% failure rate among native speakers of English is true then he has the proverbial snowball's chance in hell.

    That's not to say he might not make it, but . . .

    Whatever you tell him, if he's really got what it takes he will overcome the odds.

    Martin
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  • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
    Steve can yu please not publishings my private e-mail correspondings with you on here..

    It's embarassings that you would do this to me... I came to you for helpings and you showed the whole forumings my e-mailings..

    I only wanted to maek teh monizes... :rolleyes:

    Peace

    Jay...ings


    p.s. I happen to agree with you Steve.. some people are in no position to be running a home based business.. well.. not one that involves producing written content.
    Signature

    Bare Murkage.........

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    • Profile picture of the author Peter Bestel
      Steven

      Given the information you've supplied I think you've done the right thing. It's not just about whether this guy could make something out of IM, it's about whether he could run a business. No money, no skills, no clue = no business.

      It was very nice that you gave of your time to explore the possibilities but the end conclusion has to be, for now, he shouldn't start a business. You've got to be cruel to be kind sometimes, you'd be doing him no favour if you were to give him false hope.

      Peter
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    • Profile picture of the author Ricter
      Bravo to you, Steven, for all the effort you gave this person.

      "All men are" NOT created equal. Neither are they born in equal circumstances.
      Signature

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      • Profile picture of the author Mike McBride
        Steven,
        You're absolutely right.

        P.S. - Tell that person to PM Richard.
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      • Profile picture of the author jjpmarketing
        Here is my suggestion... If you have no skills, then you will need to acquire at least the basic skills such as reading and writing in whatever language you will be marketing in. Also some basic bum marketing skills would be needed.

        This forum, and the rest of the internet has a lot of free information on these skills. Granted there are some paid sources that will fast track this learning, but the education can still be acquired freely. It will however, require some work. If he can't even handle simple internet research, then he needs to find someone to teach him this skill.

        I also find it difficult to believe that he has zero skills at his disposal. I don't care how ignorant you are, you should have at least 1 skill in your arsenal. He most likely works somewhere to provide for himself or his family, so he could find someway to use that skill and try to apply it to other things.

        He basically needs to spend some time learning. He at least had the courage to step up and ask for help, so really he needs to learn the basics. Then he needs to learn how to apply those basics to bum marketing or artilcle marketing or something that is low cost or free to produce.

        If he plans on marketing to the English speaking markets then he really needs to study the English language diligently. Those simple errors in his use of words will leave a negative opinion in potential customers minds, especially with the disgust people have with outsourcing. (Not IM'rs, but normal folks)

        He has a lot of work to do, but it is still possible for him to make money online with an Internet Business of some sort. Anyone can do this, but for some it is a long difficult road, and others a super fast monorail directly to Fort Knox. But in either case it is still possible.

        There are few impossibles in life, while there are a lot of variables. These variable affect your odds for success. Change the variables and you change the odds.

        Dennis Grubbs
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        • I'm going to come down on the hard-assed side of things and say NO! Do not enable a desperate dreamer with no skills to persist in doing ANYTHING.

          Most people do not have what it takes to make it when it comes to being self-employed. I mean 95% of the world's total population. Sure, you can go off somewhere and do subsistence farming and live off the land. That ISN'T self-employment.

          The purpose of a business is to make a profit. Can anyone explain to me how you could teach Steven's illiterate acquaintance how to make money online? No, you can't. You can SPECULATE all you want, but when it comes to implementing some kind of business plan, FORGET IT!
          Signature
          "The will to prepare to win is more important than the will to win." -- misquoting Coach Vince Lombardi
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          • Profile picture of the author Peter Bestel
            Ahh, but couldn't you just... NO !

            Ahh, but couldn't he just... NO !

            Well maybe he could... NO NO NO NO NO!

            Some people just can't, and never will be able to run their own business. No matter how much they THINK they want to!

            There. I feel better now

            Have a nice y'all !

            Peter
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            • Profile picture of the author jjpmarketing
              Anyone can do it... all it takes is drive, determination, and the ability to learn.
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    • Profile picture of the author KarlWarren
      Originally Posted by JayXtreme View Post

      Steve can yu please not publishings my private e-mail correspondings with you on here..

      It's embarassings that you would do this to me... I came to you for helpings and you showed the whole forumings my e-mailings..

      I only wanted to maek teh monizes... :rolleyes:

      Peace

      Jay...ings
      Jay,

      do you sell ringdings? Or internet service providings?
      Signature
      eCoverNinja - Sales Page Graphics & Layout Specialist
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      • Profile picture of the author JayXtreme
        Originally Posted by KarlWarren View Post

        Jay,

        do you sell ringdings? Or internet service providings?
        Aah.. sweet.. and there was me thinking I was the only FJ fan here...

        Why do you ask Karl?...

        Are you interested in switching your current internet service providings to a provider of internet service providings that is faster than you current providings?.. with free ringdings?

        LOL

        peace

        Jay
        Signature

        Bare Murkage.........

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      • Profile picture of the author lakshaybehl
        I have an opinion... not about this person but everyone in general...
        IF I CAN DO IT, THEN ANYONE CAN DO IT.

        I didn't speak English a few years back at all... yet now I am churning out videos speaking in the same freakin' language that has to, two and too. And I know how to use at least two of them too.

        Remember, it is not about the skills that the chap has acquired till date... Its about what he is willing to learn. Onviously he understands English since he could write that email and has internet access as well.

        I am sure as hell that guy can go to Youtube .com and pick up a few skills from there. Start implementing them and make a start selling those services.

        nvu is free and webdesign more or less is just about creativity and a little bit of tutorials now.. Tutorials are there at Youtube.com. And creative ideas can start flowing when he sees the squeeze pages of other people.

        He can just do anything that he wants. Options are endless. I have done it.

        And Steven you can not convince me it can't be done.

        -Lakshay
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        • Profile picture of the author Ricter
          Originally Posted by lakshaybehl View Post

          I have an opinion... not about this person but everyone in general...
          IF I CAN DO IT, THEN ANYONE CAN DO IT.

          -Lakshay
          Sorry, mate, that's simply not true. I worked in corrections for years and am well acquainted with people, normally hidden from the comfortable middle-class's view, with two digit IQs, brain injuries, and fetal alcohol syndrome, to name a few limiters.

          It is curious that he has email access. I wonder if this is the result of some missionary church's efforts (I'm a member of one myself)...
          Signature

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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by lakshaybehl View Post

          I have an opinion... not about this person but everyone in general...
          IF I CAN DO IT, THEN ANYONE CAN DO IT.

          I didn't speak English a few years back at all... yet now I am churning out videos speaking in the same freakin' language that has to, two and too. And I know how to use at least two of them too.

          Remember, it is not about the skills that the chap has acquired till date... Its about what he is willing to learn. Onviously he understands English since he could write that email and has internet access as well.

          I am sure as hell that guy can go to Youtube .com and pick up a few skills from there. Start implementing them and make a start selling those services.

          nvu is free and webdesign more or less is just about creativity and a little bit of tutorials now.. Tutorials are there at Youtube.com. And creative ideas can start flowing when he sees the squeeze pages of other people.

          He can just do anything that he wants. Options are endless. I have done it.

          And Steven you can not convince me it can't be done.

          -Lakshay

          Great...maybe you'd like his email too.
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          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
            I find it absolutely mind boggling that there are people who refuse to admit
            that there are some people in this world who literally CAN'T do this for a
            boat load of reasons.

            Well, my offer stands...the guy's email for anybody who wants it and I will
            bet my whole bank account against the lint in your pocket that you can't
            turn this person into a successful home business owner.
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            • Profile picture of the author Martin Luxton
              I will bet my whole bank account against the lint in your pocket that you can't turn this person into a successful home business owner
              By jove! He's done it!

              Steven, you've just offered all the Professor Higginses here a massive financial incentive.

              The guy is going to be flooded with coaching offers. You'd better lay some ground rules for your wager PDQ.

              Martin
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              • Profile picture of the author Lance K
                Originally Posted by Martin Luxton View Post

                By jove! He's done it!

                Steven, you've just offered all the Professor Higginses here a massive financial incentive.

                The guy is going to be flooded with coaching offers. You'd better lay some ground rules for your wager PDQ.

                Martin
                Steven probably borrowed a lesson from Bev. He didn't say that he kept all his money in his bank account. For that matter, he didn't say that there was any money in it. He may have it all under his mattress. In which case his bank account won't do anybdy any good.
                Signature
                "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
                ~ Zig Ziglar
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              • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                Originally Posted by Martin Luxton View Post

                By jove! He's done it!

                Steven, you've just offered all the Professor Higginses here a massive financial incentive.

                The guy is going to be flooded with coaching offers. You'd better lay some ground rules for your wager PDQ.

                Martin
                Martin, it's a fool's bet because there is no way I can lose it.

                I actually feel sorry for those who think that anything can be done by
                anybody. Because it gives false hopes to those who have no business
                trying to do certain things just because they want to.

                Good grief, there are so many things in this life I wanted to do but just
                weren't cut out for it. I've already told my story of 30 years of songwriting
                only to have NOTHING to show for it...NOTHING.

                I am a classically trained musician with years of experience, a minor in
                music...

                But I wanted to break into the hardest form of entertainment in the world

                Pop music writing.

                And I gave my life and soul to it for 30 freaking years.

                And NOTHING.

                So please don't tell me that ANYBODY can do ANYTHING if they REALLY
                want to.

                I know for a fact...yes a FACT...that it is NOT so.

                And nothing that anybody here says EVER is going to make me feel
                otherwise.
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                • Profile picture of the author Kurt
                  Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                  Martin, it's a fool's bet because there is no way I can lose it.

                  I actually feel sorry for those who think that anything can be done by
                  anybody. Because it gives false hopes to those who have no business
                  trying to do certain things just because they want to.

                  Good grief, there are so many things in this life I wanted to do but just
                  weren't cut out for it. I've already told my story of 30 years of songwriting
                  only to have NOTHING to show for it...NOTHING.

                  I am a classically trained musician with years of experience, a minor in
                  music...

                  But I wanted to break into the hardest form of entertainment in the world

                  Pop music writing.

                  And I gave my life and soul to it for 30 freaking years.

                  And NOTHING.

                  So please don't tell me that ANYBODY can do ANYTHING if they REALLY
                  want to.

                  I know for a fact...yes a FACT...that it is NOT so.

                  And nothing that anybody here says EVER is going to make me feel
                  otherwise.
                  Steven,

                  You are confusing talent with skills. Talent is "god given", skills can be learned.

                  Also, you ask people for their advice, and when they post something, your reply is you'll give them the guy's email. I thought you were asking for posters, not volunteers.

                  Truth is, if the guy is determined, then he needs to learn a few skills that he can use to leverage into something bigger.

                  And the truth is, he can't do "anything" now, but what about within 3 months? There's a number of skills he can learn within 3 months.

                  What can he do now? How about learn all about social bookmarking, then offer a service to sign up for SB accounts.

                  Doesn't take much skill and I know people interested in this service. At first, he will need to do much of it "by hand", but as he progresses he can learn to automate as much of it as possible.

                  Early on, he won't make much money per hour, but as he gets better, his hourly income should increase.

                  There's a ton of folks that want to bookmark their sites but don't want to sign up for each and every SB account. He can do custom work, or create lists of accounts and sell them via a WSO.

                  He needs to spend a week learning everything he can about SB and another week getting his system down. Add a way to receive payments, and he should be on his way.

                  Now, if he isn't willing to work, learn and do this, that's his problem. But this is something ANYONE with an IQ above plant life and fingers can do, giving them a little cashflow and a "foot in the door" of IM.
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                • Profile picture of the author Lance K
                  Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                  So please don't tell me that ANYBODY can do ANYTHING if they REALLY
                  want to.

                  I know for a fact...yes a FACT...that it is NOT so.
                  Kinda like Stephanie Brown-Trafton, the American woman who won the discuss throw at the Olympics. Mary Lou Retten was her childhood hero. She wanted to be a gymnast when she grew up. Problem is she grew up too much. She's 6'4" and 225 lbs. so being a gymnast isn't possible for her. But she is still an Olympic champion. She just wasn't cut out to be a gymnast.
                  Signature
                  "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
                  ~ Zig Ziglar
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                • Profile picture of the author Art Turner
                  Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                  And nothing that anybody here says EVER is going to make me feel
                  otherwise.
                  So why start the thread?
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            • Profile picture of the author jestershaw
              Great,

              A guy comes to you for help and you are willing to give his email out to anyone and their brother. I do agree with you Steven that this is not for everyone but give the guy a break. He must think you are a good person to contact you in the first place. I would never post something about someone who came to me for help. Especially if the sole purpose of the post was to berate him.

              Just my 2 cents.

              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

              I find it absolutely mind boggling that there are people who refuse to admit
              that there are some people in this world who literally CAN'T do this for a
              boat load of reasons.

              Well, my offer stands...the guy's email for anybody who wants it and I will
              bet my whole bank account against the lint in your pocket that you can't
              turn this person into a successful home business owner.
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              • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                Originally Posted by jestershaw View Post

                Great,

                A guy comes to you for help and you are willing to give his email out to anyone and their brother. I do agree with you Steven that this is not for everyone but give the guy a break. He must think you are a good person to contact you in the first place. I would never post something about someone who came to me for help. Especially if the sole purpose of the post was to berate him.

                Just my 2 cents.
                First of all, I am NOT berating the guy. I have already spent about 4 hours
                of my time trying to help him and as Martin has said above, I am just out
                of ideas. I honestly don't know what to do for this person.

                So again, I make the offer. If anybody thinks that THEY can help this
                person create a profitable home business, I will contact the person, ask
                if I can give out his email address and then you take it from there.

                There is NOBODY who is more giving of their time with new people than I
                am and I resent anybody telling me that I'm not trying to be helpful, but
                there is only so much I can do. I have a business to run and I can't do
                the work for this person, which is essentially what he wants (no, I didn't
                go into the follow up emails which essentially asked me if I could set up
                a business for him)

                Like I said, not everybody can do this.

                But obviously there are you die hards who believe otherwise.

                God bless your optimism.
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            • Profile picture of the author YiKeS
              Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

              I find it absolutely mind boggling that there are people who refuse to admit
              that there are some people in this world who literally CAN'T do this for a
              boat load of reasons.

              Well, my offer stands...the guy's email for anybody who wants it and I will
              bet my whole bank account against the lint in your pocket that you can't
              turn this person into a successful home business owner.
              G`day Steve,

              excellent post and I believe some people can`t be helped ... I`m also
              of the opinion like Lakshay that "If I can do it anyone can" ... to a certain
              point.

              I started less than two years ago with no skills on computer ... no idea
              about internet ... no idea about business ... and a MOUNTAIN of debt.

              While I`m still in debt ... I`m still darn well here (with less debt
              everyday!) ... through sheer determination to learn ... I did learn HTML
              is NOT Hotmail ... yeah I thought that is what it was for a looong time **shudder**

              I did learn how to create graphics myself without PS or Gimp (Thanks
              Big Mike for my FAVE TOOL .. GFX Writer! ) and I`ve learnt a great
              deal of other stuff but OH BOY ... nowhere near enough yet ... but I
              DO make $$ with what I`ve learnt

              The thing is ... I`m not in this guys country and I`d say he wouldn`t
              have access to the support I`ve been able to get because I`m on
              disability pension ... so I have quite a large advantage there .... and
              without that support I wouldn`t have had a snowballs chance in hell.

              Heck I lost thousands in my first two months which near ended it
              before it began ... I even told Google to shove their $600+ bill they
              sent me because the campaign I HAD stopped ... kept running!! ...
              they were persistent but I kept to my guns, had screenshots to
              prove it and simply told the truth ...

              ... haven`t had any problems/lawsuits/threats since ... how many
              simply give in to them and hand the $$$ over in that situation? Probably
              quite a lot ... my point is I believed in ME and not in what THEY told me
              ... if the guy has that belief in himself ... well that snowball melts a fair
              bit in my opinion.

              I also know English pretty well to ... so another HUGE advantage this
              guy hasn`t ....... if I knew more about him I may be able to give a
              short/long list of other advantages I had ... or maybe I couldn`t ...
              basically I started out in similar circumstance but with HUGE advantages
              I couldn`t say and wouldn`t say outright whether he can/can`t succeed
              way to many unknown variables ... but I would not say he CAN just
              because I think he can ... same as I won`t say he can`t just because
              I think he can`t.

              ... and those who do say he can, should perhaps think about this ... you
              don`t know him, you don`t know his situation, you (most likely) know
              very little of his country/laws/situation or his current situation ... your
              so confident ... take up Steve`s bet and prove it then ... I can only
              hope you DO give him success.

              Christopher J.
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          • Profile picture of the author jjpmarketing
            For anyone says that there are people that can't do it... this is only true to a degree.

            It is still all about changing variables. As long as this guy can either figure out on his own or find someone else that can show him which variables are affecting his success then he has a chance at succeeding.

            All he will have to do is change those variables that are hindering his ability to succeed to improve his odds for success.

            Now if he doesn't want to do what it takes to change one or many of those variables, then odds are he will be part of the 95% that fail.

            As for the specific income he can make... he could be living in a country that would be overjoyed with $30,000 USD per year. That amount could be like $100,000 to him.

            It may even be less than that. He may just want to make just enough money to get out of his country. For some people if it took their whole life, it would be worth it.
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        • Profile picture of the author preets
          Originally Posted by lakshaybehl View Post

          I have an opinion... not about this person but everyone in general...
          IF I CAN DO IT, THEN ANYONE CAN DO IT.

          I didn't speak English a few years back at all... yet now I am churning out videos speaking in the same freakin' language that has to, two and too. And I know how to use at least two of them too.

          Remember, it is not about the skills that the chap has acquired till date... Its about what he is willing to learn. Onviously he understands English since he could write that email and has internet access as well.

          I am sure as hell that guy can go to Youtube .com and pick up a few skills from there. Start implementing them and make a start selling those services.

          nvu is free and webdesign more or less is just about creativity and a little bit of tutorials now.. Tutorials are there at Youtube.com. And creative ideas can start flowing when he sees the squeeze pages of other people.

          He can just do anything that he wants. Options are endless. I have done it.

          And Steven you can not convince me it can't be done.

          -Lakshay

          I am fully agree with Lakshay. Anybody can do anything if he is determined. You can learn any language within few month and I think English is not very hard nut to crack.Everybody has some skills and knowledge otherwise he can not survive in this world.I think Steven has a different mindset to see these type of people.I personaly knew quite a few people who made a very bright business with their little knowledge and no skills.Few years back I was in the same position as described by the Steven and now I have a growing offline business.

          Just my thoughts.
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  • Profile picture of the author cypherslock
    Well there is free hosting from 000webhost which I use but the domain is a problem. Damn.....
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    • Profile picture of the author Lance K
      IMO whether anyone can do it is somewhat an argument of semantics.

      Technically, everyone CAN because we all have the physical and mental capabilities necessary.

      However some CAN'T because they don't recognize that they have some of the necessary mental capabilities. They're the ones who believed their mothers when they told them that they could BE whatever they wanted when they grew up. What they failed to realize is that their mothers meant to say BECOME.

      I'll stop now before I get off on a tangent about "earn vs. entitlement".

      But when it comes right down to it, I agree with you Steven. This (or any) business is not for everyone. The possibility exists (in theory) that it could be, but it's NOT.
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    • Profile picture of the author Martin Luxton
      Some people you can help and some people you can't. This guy seems firmly in the second category.

      Steven obviously has limited time and he has to make a judgement call on who would benefit from his input.

      Speaking as an English teacher with 20 years' experience I can tell you that, apart from motivation, the number one thing you need to learn English is money.

      Money buys you time, money buys you teachers, money buys you holidays in the UK or USA where you can accelerate your learning. It's a fact. Without resources it could take this guy all his life to learn English.

      Yes, he could start off blogging for free in his own country but is there any money in that? If he's outside the developed world he is going to struggle earning anything much from Adsense and affiliate programmes. Steven would be doing the guy a disservice advising him on his local market because how can Steven know the local conditions?

      A new teacher here in Turkey was going to make a killing writing and publishing an English coursebook designed especially for Turkish students.
      Problem is, in Turkey, schools buy one original book then make cheap copies for the students. The guy didn't know the market.

      If Steven doesn't know the market he shouldn't advise on it.

      Martin
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  • Profile picture of the author lcombs
    Ok. Thought I'd throw my 2 cents worth in here.

    The truth almost always lies somewhere in the middle.

    This guy apparently can speak enough English to get by.

    He could possibly find a product on Commission Junction Junction that might appeal to people in his country.
    Join their affiliate program and use forums in his own country.

    Zero cost. All he needs is access to a computer, which he obviously has.

    eBay or Craigslist are other possiblities.

    I'm not saying this could get rich, or even make one damn dime, but, You don't need skills or money to pick up a few bucks on the 'net.

    LC
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  • Profile picture of the author Ron Douglas
    Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post


    ***********************************
    Hello!

    I need Help I do not have a penny to use how can i make an internet
    business ...


    Regards,
    <name withheld>
    ***********************************

    Remember, he has no skills and no money and can just about speak English.

    I couldn't help him.

    Maybe YOU can.

    Tell him to sign up at ODesk and bid on projects which take lots of effort but don't require strong English.

    Or, he could contact webmasters and offer to do grunt work for them.

    A "business" to him could simply mean $100 per week. Why can't he do things such as:

    - article submission
    - social bookmarking
    - sending pre-scripted emails
    - doing research
    - gathering data
    - posting comments on forums and blogs with links back to your site
    - populating messages into an autoresponder
    - converting articles into videos and posting them on video sites
    - converting articles into podcasts and posting them on podcast sites
    - shipping packages
    - burning CD's / dvds

    If he's not cut out for info-product creation or affiliate marketing, he can start out as an assistant until he learns more.

    Never tell a person with drive and determination that they can't make money.
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  • Profile picture of the author Wendy Woudstra
    Well, I'm assuming he has a computer. And he does have a rudimentary grasp of English.

    He could find someone in his local market who has an amazing talent - like an illustrator or dressmaker or something - who has no grasp of English at all and no computer, and get them to produce a product for a % of the profits. As long as the sewing patterns or plans didn't need any written instructions they should be ok.

    Maybe set up a free blog on Blogger and post with mostly pictures to promote? Let the work sell itself.
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  • Profile picture of the author Mike Williams
    I do NOT want this guy's email address but if he had emailed me here's what I would have suggested.

    Go onto Digital Point and start offering your services to do data entry, uploading videos for people, forum posts etc. Those people don't care if your posts are any good. They just need posts.

    Keep doing it and build up your reputation as a really good worker.

    Learn English at the same time with all the free resources and videos available online.

    In a few months his English will be good enough to at least deal with serious business owners. Then he can use the money saved up and invest in a course and learning a skill like PPC management, web design, or graphic design. Then offer those services on Elance, GAF, DP and the Warrior forum.

    Reinvest the money to make a website for your services and promote the hell out of it.

    But this of course all applies only if he really WANTS to run his own business.
    He might just think he wants to but really needs to get a job.

    I've seen a guy who became a successful athlete with no legs. Much greater challenges have been overcome before.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      I just got back from my weekly visit to the allergist and I returned to some
      excellent posts with some great suggestions, things I didn't think of because
      I was thinking "business" and not "job".

      Yes, there are some "grunt work" things this guy could do like making posts
      and social bookmarking things that don't require a ton of intelligence. So
      maybe he can handle these. No, he won't make a lot of money, and quite
      honestly, I don't know where it will lead, if to anything, but it's something.

      So thanks to Kurt and those few of you who actually dug into your brains
      and came up with some useful, if not knock 'em out of the ball park, suggestions.

      It's a start and I will email him with your suggestions and see what he says
      and if he takes action on them.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dan C. Rinnert
    Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

    Remember, he has no skills and no money and can just about speak English.
    Sounds like he's perfectly qualified to write PLR. Maybe he can't make money with quality PLR, but he can go for the quantity angle. Given some of the PLR I've seen lately, strong English skills evidently are not a requirement to break into that market.

    And, for every writer that can barely write in English, there are probably at least 100 readers who can barely read English. They can probably understand each other. So, there's a market for him.

    Also, given that many native English speakers can't write very well either, barely understanding English shouldn't hold anyone back.
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  • Hi, if he has no skills and no money and can just about speak English he has no chance in the world to make a successful on-line business.
    Nice of you to try.
    Srdan Basic
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  • Within every single person, is something lying around that another person will pay for. You just have to find it.

    That's from someone's signature, I'm not sure who's so I apologize, but the point remains.

    Internet marketing is a joke compared to starting an actual business. If you have any level of intelligence at all it's easy to think of a good plan, and attack it. If you don't, it's too easy to just copy what other people are doing and slap your name on it and profit from it.

    Tell the guy to go to elance and find projects that require submission. If writing isn't his forte, why only worry about writing skills?

    He might be a shakespeare in his home language, who knows. Have him try that market.
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    Money isn't real, George. It doesn't matter. It only seems like it does.

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  • Also, I'm not defending "the secret" or anything like that, but you do NOT have to very intelligent to pull something great off.

    In fact, often intelligence will hold you back from achieving something new and profitable.

    It can lead you to think, over anaylze, see the negatives which may or may not be there. When it comes to business, you really need to be a risk taker, at least in the beginning, or you may never find a breakthrough. Sometimes that perfect blend of naive and a willing to work are why people you'd never imagine are suddenly on a beach somewhere thinking "did I really just do that?"

    I know at least 30 multi millionaires on a personal level:

    25% roughly I'd say were just pure genious, and got there with skill, creativity and everything in between.

    25% were just handed it through close connections through various people (wealth attracts wealth, whether you watched the secret or not)

    The rest just had an idea, and ran with it. It didn't happen over night, they just worked and worked and worked. Some worked from the bottom up, some started it themselves, some joined in later, the common denominator was that they all WORKED.
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  • Profile picture of the author lcombs
    If this guy knows somebody that can help him translate my stuff into his language I'd be more than happy to sign him up as an affiliate and sell my stuff to his country

    The skill he has could very well be simply knowing his own language.
    That could open up a whole new market.

    All he has to do is translate it and I'll do the rest.

    LC
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Molano
    Very interesting post Steven, but I found that there is a way around it.

    During my keyword researches I have come accross keywords that have thousands of search results and almost ZERO competition and if there is competition, it is not in the form of a product/service, these keywords were in spanish and there are MANY out there (thousands, if not millions).

    So I started investigating the demand of some niches in spanish and I found two things.

    1. There is huge demand for certain niches in that language.
    2. Most latin/hispanic people understand english quite well, they just don't dominate it.

    So I figured, why hasn't this been exploited? The only answer I could think of is because most internet marketers focus on english marketing (with reason because it's the most known language there is).

    Point is, foreign language niches/markets have HUGE potential and people's understanding of the english language is enough for you or anyone to market them in their foreign language directed to an english product/service or simply create a whole product around that language.

    The only exception to this would be, people who use a native language of some sort, that very few people know or use, and don't know any other language.

    Some food for thought,

    Daniel

    P.S: Everyone must have a skill or something they are good at, right? Maybe the person you speak of actually writes quite decently in his/her language.

    P.P.S: I do agree with Steven that there are exceptions of people who cannot do very well in this line of business, but they are fewer than you would think.
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  • Profile picture of the author lcombs
    Not going to mention any names but, I know of one well know "guru" who's dumber n a bag o' rocks.

    if it wasn't for a few friends he'd still be living in his car.

    LC
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  • Profile picture of the author RRicart
    I haven't read all of the replies on this thread but I want to add my 2cents - this foreign guy's case is very difficult because he is asking someone who does not speak his language to help him out....the communication barrier is a big issue there but I don't believe that he is hopeless but he will need more help than your average IM'er.

    If he had someone who was in this IM business and spoke his native language in addition to English perhaps this would be the solution that this guy is asking for....

    I think there is always a market or a skill, maybe his writing skills are in his own tongue - I mean if he is able to go online, I'm sure there are resources available to him....he just has to look for them in his native country/language.

    I do understand your point Steven, but i think its better to say this guy has a very low chance within the English market.....
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  • Profile picture of the author John Rowe
    Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

    Well, here is just one sample of the proof that not everybody is cut out for this business.
    The only thing you've proven to me in this thread is...

    "You are just one sample of the proof that not everybody is cut out..."
    to be a useful teacher or effective mentor, in any regard.

    PS: Too many of your threads are such a waste of time.
    Several, like this one, offer nothing of any value.

    .
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by John Rowe View Post

      The only thing you've proven to me in this thread is...

      "You are just one sample of the proof that not everybody is cut out..."
      to be a useful teacher or effective mentor, in any regard.

      PS: Too many of your threads are such a waste of time.
      Several, like this one, offer nothing of any value.

      .
      I'll accept the waste of time comment for this thread, but you know NOTHING
      of my skills as a mentor. There are people right here at this forum who I
      have personally helped and they will tell you themselves.
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      • Profile picture of the author John Rowe
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        ... but you know NOTHING of my skills as a mentor.
        I see. Yet you know everything about this chap's ability and business future.


        .
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        • Profile picture of the author RRicart
          Originally Posted by John Rowe View Post

          I see. Yet you know everything about this chap's ability and business future. :rolleyes:


          .
          John, respectfully speaking.

          I don't think he was necessarily assuming that he knew everything about the person he spoke of - but he was just using common sense - chances are that the gentlemen who he spoke of will probably not make it - why because there is a huge language issue - yes I agree that there is a chance he can make it but from statistics he probably wont - I don't blame Steven for assuming what he assumed....but Steven did reach out to the guy and made the effort and based on his own experiences he felt that the chances were very very very slim....its just his opinion and I believe that like Steven and like you - both of you are entitled to your own.

          Best regards and wishes to you!
          -Ruben Ricart
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by John Rowe View Post

          I see. Yet you know everything about this chap's ability and business future. :rolleyes:


          .
          No. I know what I've learned in the 4 hours of communications with him and
          in my professional opinion, this business is not for him.

          Could I be wrong? I guess it's possible. But like I said, I'm willing to bet
          my bank account that I'm not.

          I am making an educated guess based on interaction with person.

          But hey, if anybody else thinks they can help him, be my guest.

          I just have to see if I can find his email again because I've deleted all of
          our correspondence after posting this thread because I thought I was
          done with it.

          Obviously John, you feel anybody can do this to if they want to.

          Fine, I'm not going to argue with you or anybody about this anymore.

          I'm not going to change the way you and others feel just as you won't
          change how I feel. So this really is pointless.
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        • Profile picture of the author Martin Luxton
          John,

          I don't know you, or what you are, but please could you try to add something constructive to this thread?

          To adapt what somebody said earlier

          "Too many of your posts are such a waste of time.
          Most, like this one, offer nothing of any value."

          Martin
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          • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
            Originally Posted by Martin Luxton View Post

            John,

            I don't know you, or what you are, but please could you try to add something constructive to this thread?

            To adapt what somebody said earlier

            "Too many of your posts are such a waste of time.
            Most, like this one, offer nothing of any value."

            Martin
            Martin, thanks but I don't let John get to me. A year and a half ago, maybe.

            Not anymore. I have people here who I've helped and respect me.

            That's all I care about.

            The rest of it is just BS.
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      • Profile picture of the author Lloyd Lopes
        wow...this thread has turned ugly.

        Quick note before I get back on topic... Steven's mentoring skills are alright. When you ask him specific questions , you get specific answers...

        I asked him once for help with a sales page. His response was "this and that bit is crap - do x y and z." - I fixed the page and it works better - a 1.5% better conversion rate.

        On the note of who can do this "online thing" - I think those who are willing to work and are willing to help themselves and persevere will make it in the end.

        This person on the other end of the email is not willing to work , just by virtue of the question they asked. You can tell a lot by the questions people ask....

        If they were really interested in starting a business , they would have done some research beforehand and come up with some ideas. They would have thought up some value to provide , or a need to fill. They would have thought about how to go about doing it.

        Then they would have got stuck , and would have asked specific questions like "which hosting provider should I use" or "how do I install a blog" etc.

        But this person didn't think. They didn't care. Then they try desperately to leech off people like Steven who genuinely try to help. Eventually they are shown the light ( ie : how much work it is ) , and they bail.

        Me - I have never asked anyone "how to build an internet business". I used my noggin and worked it out. I still ask for help (..in fact I do it often... I know very little) , but I make sure I work and research right up to the point where I truly can't go any further without specialized knowledge and then I ask something specific.

        This person is a hopeless case who must be tossed aside to make way for more deserving recipients of Stevens time.

        Am I being to harsh?
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        • Profile picture of the author Thomas Belknap
          Originally Posted by Lloyd Lopes View Post


          This person on the other end of the email is not willing to work , just by virtue of the question they asked. You can tell a lot by the questions people ask....

          Am I being to harsh?

          Hi Lloyd,


          Yes, I think you are being too harsh. You have to remember the English skill level we are dealing with here. That means it is hard to formulate any type of opinion based on how he/she worded a question. I know this from experience. My wife knew English pretty well when I met her. I can't tell you how many times we had miscommunication because the way she asked a question or how she phrased it.


          The miscommunication still happens but now it is mainly a man and woman thing.
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          • Profile picture of the author Ricter
            Originally Posted by Thomas Belknap View Post

            Hi Lloyd,


            Yes, I think you are being too harsh. You have to remember the English skill level we are dealing with here. That means it is hard to formulate any type of opinion based on how he/she worded a question. I know this from experience. My wife knew English pretty well when I met her. I can't tell you how many times we had miscommunication because the way she asked a question or how she phrased it.


            The miscommunication still happens but now it is mainly a man and woman thing.
            When you imagine the ocean of sinking and drowning, unknown people he could be surrounded by, you have to wonder about that little spark that got him to make an email request...
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    • Profile picture of the author Michael D
      Originally Posted by John Rowe View Post

      The only thing you've proven to me in this thread is...

      "You are just one sample of the proof that not everybody is cut out..."
      to be a useful teacher or effective mentor, in any regard.

      PS: Too many of your threads are such a waste of time.
      Several, like this one, offer nothing of any value.

      .

      I thought I would chime in on this. First, Steve is correct in his stance. Not everyone is cut out to run an internet business. If they were there would be a lot more competition for all of us. If this was really easy to do we would all be in a lot of trouble because we would all be going after the scraps. Granted, most people could learn to run an online business to some degree but it would take them a long time to learn the technical skills needed to succeed.

      Now, why is it that everyone thinks that people should mentor a person for free? Why is it our responsibility to give up time and money to show someone how to do what we do? There is a scary idea going around with a lot of people that they can just randomly email someone they found and ask them to teach them for free. A lot of people make a killing charging huge fees for mentoring and membership sites. Sure, you could offer to mentor him for a hefty fee for the time and money that you would be losing but he can't afford that.

      The idea of making money online makes a lot of people think they can do it for little or no cost and make a ton of money in the process. Part of this mentality I blame on all the ebooks out there promising the world. These people will go around and read through sales pages and the dreams they promise and think it is really easy to get into this gig. A lot of them can't afford the $27, $47, or $97 dollar price tag so they seek out people in the business and ask for a handout. I don't believe it is anyone's responsibility to help out for free. Some people do it out of the kindness of their hearts and that is great. But, I bet not many people in this thread would do that without getting anything back in return.

      Now, I know there are people on here that sell these ebooks and if it wasn't for people looking for this dream to make money online you wouldn't have a business. SO, you better thank whoever your god is that there are a ton of people that are willing to spend a little bit of money to learn this business. If everyone was like this person who emailed the OP you wouldn't have any sales at all.

      Now, in defense to the person who sent the email. I don't know what their native language is but I do know how hard English is to learn. I am a little disappointed some of you generalized this person as unintelligent, illiterate, and lazy because they don't speak English. All you read is one line of an email and you jump to these nasty conclusions. For all you know this person could be very intelligent but doesn't speak English that well. I am very disappointed in a lot of people on here for immediatley jumping to judge a person based on one email.
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    • Profile picture of the author Justin Jordan
      Originally Posted by John Rowe View Post

      The only thing you've proven to me in this thread is...


      PS: Too many of your threads are such a waste of time.
      Several, like this one, offer nothing of any value.

      .
      The fact that there are three pages of discussion would seem to indicate that there is some value here.
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  • Profile picture of the author marcanthony
    No way! Everyone is not cut out for this.

    In this case, I'm sure that there is something that can be done to help this guy. But, let's say that he does get over the hump and learns a few skills. How is is mental fortitude?

    I know that he is already used to living without any money but, that can't last forever.

    Will he be able to handle self-employment?

    Even, if he decides to be an internet marketer on the side, it takes time to get figure this stuff out.

    Unless you have the time to take on the project of helping this guy... I would move on. Sure, you can try but, it's impossible to help everyone. And, that's not a knock on you, I'm sure you are a great teacher/trainer. But, everyone isn't a good student.

    My wife has taught at the middle school and high school level for 7 years... she's a math teacher. This past year she was recruited to be the head of the math department... middle school level. All of the 7 years that she's been teaching, her students consecutively outscore all of the students at other schools in the entire district by margins that range from 10-15%. So, she's a great teacher.

    But, regardless of her skills and percentages, some kids still fail.

    I just don't think that it's worth the time, in this case.
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  • Profile picture of the author George Wright
    Hi,

    He emailed you. I have a LOT of friends who do not know how to eMail. One of them called me the other day to come to his office and teach him. He works in an office with his son who is very computer savvy. Also in his office are two ladies who email clients all day.

    Is it that they couldn't teach him? No for some strange reason he did not want them to teach him.

    Don't get me wrong he uses his PC every day. He reads his emails and tells his staff which ones to answer, he's the boss.

    Something came up that he wanted to do that required emailing that had nothing to do with his business.

    I taught him with no thought of charging but he insisted on paying me $50+ lunch.

    If your friend can email (he emailed you) there are probably other things he knows. I'd think he is on the Computer a lot or why would he want to get into IM?

    Yes, he can be helped, however his desire has to be much bigger than his pride or wallet.

    George Wright P.S. I'm going to reveal another true story. As I typed the words desire and pride I remembered this. And I posted it on the old forum but it seems appropriate here also. I "prided" myself on knowing a few things about PCs that others did not know. A few years ago I got a call from a man at his office who had no less than 5 PCs.

    I had mentioned to him that I could "clean everything up for him" for around $100.

    OK, its sometime after that that he called me and said he thought $100 was too high and he would give me $50.

    It was a particular day where an extra $50 sounded real good to me so I swallowed my pride and said OK. I was Kicking myself on the way to his office because I was going to have to remove viruses and spy ware from 5 PCs for a lousy $10 each but also consoling myself because the $50 was going to come in handy.

    When I got the office he showed me to the room, not the computer room, the restroom.

    You see he had known me years before that when I owned and operated a cleaning business and when I said "Clean up" meaning PCs he heard "Clean up" meaning toilets.

    Now I REALLY swallowed my pride. But the good thing was it only took me an hour instead of the 3 or 4 hours that the PC job would have taken.

    Moral: Your friend might have to take on some really weird jobs on the way to Internet Marketing Success. GW
    Signature
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  • Profile picture of the author George Wright
    If you think you can or if you think you can't you are Wright uh, I mean right.

    George Wright
    Signature
    "The first chapter sells the book; the last chapter sells the next book." Mickey Spillane
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    • Profile picture of the author Tony_D
      Originally Posted by George Wright View Post

      If you think you can or if you think you can't you are Wright uh, I mean right.

      George Wright
      wa wa wa waaaaaa......

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  • Profile picture of the author Terry Crim
    I just contacted Steve to get the email for this guy. I would be more than willing to work with him. I have MANY MANY options that I can setup from employee free lance to grunt work etc.. and from my experiences with mentoring over the last 20 years I can get results for just about anyone that is willing to make an effort.

    Though sadly Steve responded to me that he has deleted all correspondance with this individual shortly after making the initial post in this thread and wont be able to pass contact information on.

    Anyway, if anyone here is not able to make a go of it let me know, I maybe able to help. No guarantees or promises of any kind mind you. You can reach me at the site in my sigfile.


    - Terry
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  • Profile picture of the author Allen Graves
    Maybe that guy could create a local community website and market to the local businesses or sports teams???

    AL
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    Every day I check the obituaries. If I don't see my name there, then I know it's going to be a good day!
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  • Profile picture of the author prestige00
    Why not tell him to find a job somewhere where he can trade his time for money. Then say to him after a certain amount of time, he can come back to you for help. Maybe even also saving up the amount of money you think will be a good start in an online business.

    Rick
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  • Profile picture of the author Terry Crim
    I have worked with people like this before. The key factor is if they are willing to put in effort and do something, to actually take action.

    If not then there is nothing anyone can do. Most people either disappear or dance around from one idea or thing to the next idea or thing. My success rate with my coaching clients comes with my ability to get them to focus and take action.

    The problem I see with most coaches in the IM niche is that they have a limited box of resources. They know a few things and they know them well but when they come up against something or someone that doesn't fit into their few expertise then BOOM.. It blows up and they can't go further.

    I get a lot of coaching referrals from some of the well known "Guru's" or past clients of theirs that found me through various channels. I personally may not be able to help them but I have a larger box of resources to draw from than most and refer them on to an actionable plan or opportunity.

    I have taken hopeless cases before or what others labeled as hopeless. Some as Steve state are just not ready, others I think it was a combination of mismatched personalities, limited narrow of expertise or the so called coach just didn't want to put in the additional effort to explain in a way that the person could understand it. I am not talking about Steve here I am talking about my experience with a wide range of other coaches out there.

    I started out online with little to no money myself. I have gotten results lets say, creatively, and have developed a knack for starting projects that end up funding themselves with no out of pocket expense on my part. Isn't really that hard to do but without the experience and knowledge to do it, there is a lot of trial and error and either they succeed or they do not.

    So we have a lot of people here that have proven to themselves that it can not be done and there is a lot of support for that view. There are a few people with optimistic views that state the possibility but in this case with this individual we do not know really. At least I am not convinced that this person is a waste of space because I have not had the chance to talk with him.

    I got a lot out of this thread and the various types of mindsets we have here. I appreciate everyone's participation here, it is a good read, thanks.


    - Terry
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    • Profile picture of the author MADMONEY
      Originally Posted by Wild Boom View Post

      Hey Steven, why let it get to your head, you may be the king of article marketing but when some come up with creative alternatives using nothing more than pure brain-power, dont bash them for it. I think the alternatives is fair and could work. There is more than one way to skin a cat.

      Impossible is not even in my dictonairy.
      Wild Boom,

      I can see that impossible is not your dictionary since you can't even spell it correctly. Just kidding -- spell check is a wonderful thing! Or perhaps it was a deliberate misspelling.

      Originally Posted by Terry Crim View Post

      I have worked with people like this before. The key factor is if they are willing to put in effort and do something, to actually take action.

      If not then there is nothing anyone can do. Most people either disappear or dance around from one idea or thing to the next idea or thing. My success rate with my coaching clients comes with my ability to get them to focus and take action.

      The problem I see with most coaches in the IM niche is that they have a limited box of resources. They know a few things and they know them well but when they come up against something or someone that doesn't fit into their few expertise then BOOM.. It blows up and they can't go further.

      I get a lot of coaching referrals from some of the well known "Guru's" or past clients of theirs that found me through various channels. I personally may not be able to help them but I have a larger box of resources to draw from than most and refer them on to an actionable plan or opportunity.

      I have taken hopeless cases before or what others labeled as hopeless. Some as Steve state are just not ready, others I think it was a combination of mismatched personalities, limited narrow of expertise or the so called coach just didn't want to put in the additional effort to explain in a way that the person could understand it. I am not talking about Steve here I am talking about my experience with a wide range of other coaches out there.

      I started out online with little to no money myself. I have gotten results lets say, creatively, and have developed a knack for starting projects that end up funding themselves with no out of pocket expense on my part. Isn't really that hard to do but without the experience and knowledge to do it, there is a lot of trial and error and either they succeed or they do not.

      So we have a lot of people here that have proven to themselves that it can not be done and there is a lot of support for that view. There are a few people with optimistic views that state the possibility but in this case with this individual we do not know really. At least I am not convinced that this person is a waste of space because I have not had the chance to talk with him.

      I got a lot out of this thread and the various types of mindsets we have here. I appreciate everyone's participation here, it is a good read, thanks.


      - Terry
      Terry, I hate to be a me tooer, but I do concur on some parts, but...

      If you are going to market in the United States or any other English-speaking country is obvious that you at least have a command of the language.

      I don't think no matter how good a coach I am that I can overcome that obstacle.

      Just my two cents,

      Mad Money
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      • Profile picture of the author Terry Crim
        Originally Posted by MADMONEY View Post


        If you are going to market in the United States or any other English-speaking country is obvious that you at least have a command of the language.

        I don't think no matter how good a coach I am that I can overcome that obstacle.

        Yeah I agree about the language issue but that wasn't my primary focus with my post. I work with people in other countries and when we do a product in that language I have someone convert it. Just because you don't speak a specific language does NOT mean you can't market to them, just make sure YOU are not the one writing the content.

        Though I guess my thing here is being creative and able to get things done. Most people out there do NOT understand any of this stuff and they have to be coached along. Some coaches can get them further down the path than others and there will be quite a few different ones along the way.

        As for our friend here, the subject of this thread, I don't know either way about him other than he is a very green newbe. Though I think since Steve no longer has his contact info that there really isn't any point in continuing discussing hypothetically if this guy is a loser and will never make it or has opportunity and just not ready or whatever the case may be.

        - Terry

        P.S. I agree about the crash course in failure comment... LOL
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    • Profile picture of the author DaniMc
      What we are really talking about here is Probability vs. Possibility.

      While it is possible for this guy to make a living online....because of his circumstances it is not very probable.

      Hell, how probable was it that Bill Gates or Warren Buffet or Donald Trump would pull themselves from the lower class to become the worlds richest men?

      Not very.

      How probable is it that a member here will a billionaire one day?

      Again...not very.

      I do not believe this means it is impossible for this guy to pull himself up though. Everyone on the planet has a certain mental programming. Some people are more probable and some are less probable to really make in this life.

      On the other hand....I have seen people who had everything going for them and should be very wealthy...fall flat on their faces.

      I have seen others who didn't have a chance in hell...who are very, very successful.

      All this means is that we all have our work cut out for us. We all must overcome our weaknesses and mental and physical blockage.

      If this guy has average IQ, access to ways to learn, and the drive to overcome any obstacle...after 10 tries and failures in business, he may just make it.

      Just judging from his situation, he has a long way to go.

      Is it possible he can cover the distance before he dies?

      Yes.

      Will he actually cover the distance before he dies?

      Probably not.

      But, I for one would never, ever throw a stumbling block in someones way. I will always throw the hungry dog a bone. I will always give a homeless person a burger. And I will always encourage people to follow their dreams...even if they may never happen.

      Hope is the greatest, most essential thing that people have.
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      Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a hard battle.
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  • Profile picture of the author lcombs
    Ok.

    My 2 cents again.

    I think Steven posted a philosophical question.

    Then, when a debate began, he became very defensive.

    The camps divided.

    I agree with RRicart.

    The language barrier is huge.

    Who knows what this guy is capable of if they don't speak his language?

    No offense Steven but, 4 hours with someone whose language you don't speak isn't enough to know what he is or isn't capable of.

    Personally, I believe anyone is is capable of doing whatever they set their mind to.

    What one man can do, so can another.

    The only thing that keeps us from acheiving our goals is our own mind.
    ( barring any physical or mental defects).

    The only thing that will keep this guy from succeeding is his belief in himself, and his desire to acheive it.

    He needs to learn English. if his desire is stong enough, he will.

    Not cut out for it?

    Maybe.

    Not capable?

    No one in this forum knows his mental capabilities.

    No one is willing to put in the time and to help this guy?

    From what I've read there are plenty of people right here.

    If he can find some one to translate our communications I'll give him all the help I can.

    He's apparently willing. That's half the battle.

    Send me his email address Steven.

    Maybe I can pick up where you left off.

    LC
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason Zalesky
    I was looking through all the posts and I dont understand why people think since someone doesnt have a skill they cant do this?

    Internet marketing is a skill in itself and I surely didnt have any skill for it before I started. I am still learning the skill of internet marketing.

    I think that everyone CAN do internet marketing if they set their mind to do so. You may have to crack a book open and read up on some stuff. I have my wife who couldnt even type a year ago running a couple of her own blogs now so its doable. You just have to learn a skill and go with it.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Jason Zalesky View Post

      I was looking through all the posts and I dont understand why people think since someone doesnt have a skill they cant do this?

      Internet marketing is a skill in itself and I surely didnt have any skill for it before I started. I am still learning the skill of internet marketing.

      I think that everyone CAN do internet marketing if they set their mind to do so. You may have to crack a book open and read up on some stuff. I have my wife who couldnt even type a year ago running a couple of her own blogs now so its doable. You just have to learn a skill and go with it.
      Jason, my wife's a school teacher and HAS TO use a PC for her school to
      keep her grades and other things.

      She STILL can't do it without my help. And she's been at this since the
      days of Windows 3.1.

      So obviously just to say go and learn a skill is not sufficient. People have
      to be ABLE to learn a skill and obviously that is where I and a lot of
      people seem to be in disagreement. They think that anybody can learn
      anything. I don't.

      So maybe my wife is stupid, right?

      Well, guess what? Stupid or not, doesn't matter. She can't wrap her head
      around computers and nothing I've done has been able to make it happen.

      SOME PEOPLE JUST CAN'T LEARN SOME THINGS.

      Believe it...don't believe it...whatever.
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      • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post


        SOME PEOPLE JUST CAN'T LEARN SOME THINGS.

        Believe it...don't believe it...whatever.
        Cool, then I DON'T believe it.

        Do you really believe that just because YOU can't teach someone basic computer skills that this translates into some people cannot learn some new skills.

        We're not talking learning to juggle 20 knives, just basic common-sense simple skills which are much less complicated that your average washing machine.

        If someone can't learn them - I'd suggest the teaching is at fault, rather than default the blame to the universe.
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        • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
          Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

          Cool, then I DON'T believe it.

          Do you really believe that just because YOU can't teach someone basic computer skills that this translates into some people cannot learn some new skills.

          We're not talking learning to juggle 20 knives, just basic common-sense simple skills which are much less complicated that your average washing machine.

          If someone can't learn them - I'd suggest the teaching is at fault, rather than default the blame to the universe.
          My wife has not only been taught by myself but by in service classes
          at school as well by certified trainers.

          But I suppose they're all incompetent as well.

          And if that were the case, why was I able to teach my daughter how to
          use computers? She's a wiz.

          Do you have an answer for that Andy?
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          • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
            Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

            My wife has not only been taught by myself but by in service classes
            at school as well by certified trainers.

            But I suppose they're all incompetent as well.

            And if that were the case, why was I able to teach my daughter how to
            use computers? She's a wiz.

            Do you have an answer for that Andy?

            It's not co-incidence that when you say such things people reply with contrary perspectives.

            Everyone is different and there are some things that specific people will find more difficult, but when it comes to basic computer skills it's VERY difficult to find a situation where absolutely no instruction whatsoever can result in some basic learning.

            If you've experienced the rare situation where it has happened - that's a shame, but it has absolutely no bearing on other peoples possibilities.

            If the specific details of something technical are a hurdle for someone - there's usually a way to get around it and enable them with a different solution.

            Unless someone is dyslexic there's no reason they shouldn't reasonably expect to be able to use a word processor. If they can do that, emailing and storing data is a very small step. Recording and storing data is enough to make most people able to do most basic computer tasks.

            I'm sure you are convinced that some people just can't learn and that your experience probably applies to others more than they're letting on, but I also have a lot of teaching experience and I've NEVER found anyone who couldn't be taught basic computer skills - so how can I possible be convinced that you perspective the way it is when it's just nothing like my own experience.

            All I know is that I don't have the experiences or perspective you have. The difference is - I'm not trying to convince anyone my perspective is the right one, it's just the one I have right now.
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            • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
              You know what the problem is?

              People are reading more into what I am saying than what I am actually saying.

              So let me try to make this as clear as I can with a generic equation. This
              will apply to anything in the world, not just IM.

              Person A wants to learn thing X.

              Person A gets the training or whatever it is that they have to do to learn
              thing X in order to achieve results Y.

              After Z number of days, weeks, months or years, having not achieved
              results Y, the person decides that they have spent enough time on thing
              X and it is not worth it pursuing doing it any longer because they are not
              achieving results Y.

              The person himself has decided that thing X is NOT for them. They've
              given all they're going to give to it and they're done giving.

              Effectively, this means that thing X was NOT for this person. They were
              not cut out to do it given the limits of their own willingness to pursue it.

              Could they have eventually gotten results Y?

              But what if they kept at it for 30 years and died before ever seeing those
              results?

              Some would say, "well, at least they tried and had fun".

              But did they have fun? I certainly didn't have fun trying to write hit songs
              for 30 years and having nothing to show for it. If I had spent them time
              instead starting my own business THEN, I'd be a multi millionaire right now.
              I wasted YEARS of my life on something that was most likely never going
              to happen.

              Please read my thread again. I never said that anything was impossible.

              All I said is that some people are just not cut out for some things.

              And that applies to everything in life, not just IM.

              I wanted to learn the violin years ago. I love music and I've learned so
              many other instruments I figured, why not the violin.

              But I had a severe disadvantage.

              Unlike the piano which has keys that generate specific notes and the
              guitar that has frets which do the same, the violin has no frets. You have
              to "hear" the notes and in order to do that, you need perfect pitch. I don't
              have perfect pitch and in spite of all the exercises I did to try to teach
              myself to "get" it (though many music people I speak to say it's just
              something you're born with) I couldn't do it. As a result, I couldn't play
              the violin even fairly.

              Did I give 30 years of my life to it? No, but I gave it a decent amount of
              time. Point is, I realize I wasn't getting anywhere and the violin, as much
              as I love the instrument, wasn't for me.

              That is all I'm saying. Not everything is for everybody. And just wanting to
              do it ISN'T enough.

              But as has been shown to me, there are those who don't agree with this.

              I guess I should go buy myself another violin and try again.

              And just to set the record straight, I was not generalizing that everybody
              is like this. I was just saying that for every person A there is going to be a
              thing X that they won't be able to get results Y from in a reasonable
              amount of time to make it worth it for them to pursue it any longer.

              Hopefully, the above paragraph is plain enough English that everybody
              can understand it, because I can't make it any simpler than that.
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              • Profile picture of the author Wild Boom
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                • Profile picture of the author Lance K
                  Someone once told John Carlton to forget about learning copywriting becaus it was too hard.

                  I guarantee you someone could coach the person referenced in the OP to success as an internet marketer. If that is really what the dude wants. Sounds to me like maybe that's not really what he wanted. So in that case I'd say it's more a case of "won't" rather than "can't".

                  The reason this debate isn't going anywhere is because some people are substituting the meaning of the word "will" for "can". Unless we all agree on how to define "can" what's the point? :rolleyes:
                  Signature
                  "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
                  ~ Zig Ziglar
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                  • Profile picture of the author Wild Boom
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                    • Profile picture of the author Lance K
                      Originally Posted by Wild Boom View Post

                      I think I'm gonna start a thread and ask if the cup is half empty or half full...its quite the same as this thread. :rolleyes:
                      That pretty much sums it up.
                      Signature
                      "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
                      ~ Zig Ziglar
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                    • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
                      Originally Posted by Wild Boom View Post

                      I think I'm gonna start a thread and ask if the cup is half empty or half full...its quite the same as this thread. :rolleyes:
                      The cup is always full!

                      Sorry, had way too much caffeine this morning.......
                      Signature
                      "Your personal philosophy is the greatest determining factor in how your life works out."
                      - Jim Rohn
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                  • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
                    Originally Posted by Lance K View Post

                    Someone once told John Carlton to forget about learning copywriting becaus it was too hard.

                    I guarantee you someone could coach the person referenced in the OP to success as an internet marketer. If that is really what the dude wants. Sounds to me like maybe that's not really what he wanted. So in that case I'd say it's more a case of "won't" rather than "can't".

                    The reason this debate isn't going anywhere is because some people are substituting the meaning of the word "will" for "can". Unless we all agree on how to define "can" what's the point? :rolleyes:
                    Lance, that may very well be the problem here, "will" for "can", but the end
                    result is the same. Whether somebody "can't" do something or whether
                    they are just not willing to keep at it no matter how long it takes, the end
                    result is it doesn't get done and for THAT person, the task at hand,
                    whatever it is, wasn't for them.

                    I think that's all I'm saying is this business isn't for everybody even if they
                    want to do it IF they're not willing to do whatever it takes them, even if
                    that means spending years of their life.

                    Ultimately, the end result is the same.

                    Otherwise, everybody who started a home business would be successful
                    instead of being part of the 95% failure rate.

                    But please, if my logic is flawed, somebody show me where in a way where
                    I can understand it, as this is another example of what I'm talking about.
                    I may never be able to understand the opposing point of view here,
                    because honestly, I don't get it.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Lance K
                      Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

                      I think that's all I'm saying is this business isn't for everybody even if they
                      want to do it IF they're not willing to do whatever it takes them, even if
                      that means spending years of their life.

                      Ultimately, the end result is the same.
                      That makes sense to me.
                      Signature
                      "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
                      ~ Zig Ziglar
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                      • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
                        Originally Posted by Lance K View Post

                        That makes sense to me.
                        THAT is why people are disagreeing....

                        Those words 'seem' like a sensible position - however, there's a massive downside to them - they're making the assumption that if you try and it doesn't work you should stop because "it's just not for you".

                        The problem here that underlies this entire thread is that there are illogical assumptions supporting what seems like 'sensible' advice to stop trying if you fail when you do try.

                        If we forget the BS negativity about how hard and long the journey has to be and focus on creating unique value and helping real people - it's often easy to see opportunities to help people and make money at the same time.

                        If we start from a position of looking to get as much for nothing as possible - it's highly likely that money will not flow to us.

                        If we expect failure and tell others to expect the same - who are we helping?

                        Expectation is 90% of success. If you don't expect success you're already affecting the results you're likely to get.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Lance K
                          Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

                          THAT is why people are disagreeing....

                          Those words 'seem' like a sensible position - however, there's a massive downside to them - they're making the assumption that if you try and it doesn't work you should stop because "it's just not for you".

                          The problem here that underlies this entire thread is that there are illogical assumptions supporting what seems like 'sensible' advice to stop trying if you fail when you do try.
                          In no way was that what made sense to me. What makes sense is that not everyone is cut out for this. As evidenced by those who do give up. I have enough things of my own to worry about without trying to figure out if other people are cut out to be their own boss.

                          I probably should have clarified, but to be honest I was just eager to be done with this thread.
                          Signature
                          "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
                          ~ Zig Ziglar
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                          • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
                            Originally Posted by Lance K View Post


                            I probably should have clarified, but to be honest I was just eager to be done with this thread.
                            - fair enough....
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                            • Profile picture of the author Fabian Tan
                              Let's see which guy who likes to talk a big game of 'anyone can do anything' actually spend 4 hours helping this guy.

                              All talk, no action so far, as they say in Singapore. ;-)

                              Fabian
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                              • Profile picture of the author Lance K
                                Originally Posted by Fabian Tan View Post

                                Let's see which guy who likes to talk a big game of 'anyone can do anything' actually spend 4 hours helping this guy.

                                All talk, no action so far, as they say in Singapore. ;-)

                                Fabian
                                Oh so anyone with an opinion opposite of your personal truth should be expected go GIVE up their valuable time in order to prove their personal truth to you? I would think that most rational people would also understand that expecting to pull it off in 4 hours is a recipe for disaster.
                                Signature
                                "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
                                ~ Zig Ziglar
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                                • Profile picture of the author Lance K
                                  Well said, John.

                                  (Other than the part about Steven's motives. I have no way of knowing what they are/were)
                                  Signature
                                  "You can have everything in life you want if you will just help enough other people get what they want."
                                  ~ Zig Ziglar
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                        • Profile picture of the author John Rowe
                          Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

                          If we expect failure and tell others to expect the same - who are we helping?
                          I think you’re great Andy!

                          To me that’s what this whole thread has been about.
                          Not, can or can’t, will or won’t, half-full or half-empty, and
                          not about giving your time away free.

                          This post is about a single individual deciding to advocate,
                          his own beliefs about someone else's limits and possibility.

                          If you can’t, fine. If the smallest of achievements means
                          suffering and years of hard work to you, fine. If Grandma
                          taught you that men only war, fine.

                          If someone asks you for help and you decide to tell him
                          your beliefs about his limits and what he’s not cut out to do,
                          then tell him. I suspect you didn’t because you knew it
                          wouldn’t help him in any way.

                          Offering it here helps no one either.

                          In fact, you're the only one it helps by exposing your
                          signature to the high numbers that controversy attracts.
                          This I suspect, wrong or right, was your underlying reason
                          for posting all along. And probably the reason why Les
                          banished so many of your posts in the old forum, to the
                          self-help section.

                          And, I’m not picking a fight with you Steven. Just making
                          clearer, how I saw your post – even if only to me.

                          .
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  • Profile picture of the author Rotten
    Steven, what the hell is wrong with you man.

    I have something to share, so here goes:
    Im from Denmark and in our schools the grades looks like this: 00, 03, 05, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11 & 13..

    I got 05 which is F for you. Now 3 years later I don't know what my grade is, but now I can talk english, not very good english, but you do understand me right?

    Now here is the funny thing, the way I learned english is here at warriorforum. How? Simpe, read, and use a dictionary. Now I can create articles, make posts, and talk to people. I got no marketable interests. I do like everyone else thought, find a profitable niche, read and learn, then sell.

    I make money online now, and I did it from SCRATCH, like the one you are talking about. You are lucky, you can english, because for us, it's freakin' hard!

    He can make money like I could/can!


    And dont be so mad because you where the one asking us, and you're are asking everyone to have his email. Like an offended little girl
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  • Profile picture of the author CWSusan
    Hi Steve,

    Thanks for this post. I think Internet Marketing is a lot like Real Estate Investing -- people think it's a get-rich-quick strategy and that they just "add water" and the funds start pouring in.

    My experience shows me that there is money to be made in the Internet Marketing field - but it requires a lot of time, diligence and some money. Add to that keeping yourself motivated and pumped . . .

    For me, fear was my motivator as I was out of money with thousands of $$ of bills coming up. I didn't have the option to try various strategies and buy every WSO or new system that came along. I had to choose what I thought to be the best system, then follow it to the letter. I had to stay focused . . . I had to work long hours . . . I had to stay on task. The alternative was very dark and I didn't want to go there . . .

    So, anyone thinking this is a get-rich-quick scheme and that anyone can do it is indeed wrong . . . but the right people it's fun, exciting, challenging and rewarding!

    Thanks again for sharing this thought.
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  • Profile picture of the author Johnny Slater
    Why is it that everyone thinks that to make any money online you HAVE to know how to read and write english?

    People who do not read or write english learn in their naitive language every day. First and foremost, someone from a non english speaking situation should start out working within their own language.

    There is little stopping this guy from writing a few articles or ebooks in his own language and selling to his fellow countrymen. Even the poorest of countries have people wanting to learn things in their own language so why does everyone here ASSUME that you have to market to them in english and force them to learn english just to access information?

    Granted, you won't become a millionaire marketing to naitive language customers only, but then again the odds of becoming a millionaire marketing to english customers is pretty much non existant anyway.

    From what I see the guy just wants to learn how to make money using the internet as a medium. He can do this in his own language. Once he gets a general idea of what to do using his naitive language then its much easier to slowly branch out to the english speaking customers.
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  • Profile picture of the author Peter Bestel
    This thread has officially entered the Twilight Zone, where it's travelling into a neighbourhood of cul-de-sacs and dead ends. No matter how many signs are thrown in front of the wheels we're still going down the same roads and getting nowhere.

    Time to give up and go home.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by Peter Bestel View Post

      This thread has officially entered the Twilight Zone, where it's travelling into a neighbourhood of cul-de-sacs and dead ends. No matter how many signs are thrown in front of the wheels we're still going down the same roads and getting nowhere.

      Time to give up and go home.
      Peter, this is probably the most sensible thing (including myself) that
      anybody has said here.

      I'm officially ending my involvement with this thread with this post. Some
      agree with me, some don't.

      That's kind of like anything else in life.

      Like my grandmother, God rest her soul, used to say.

      "As long as there are two people on this earth, there will always be war."
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  • Sometimes people want something they are not ready to have at this point in time. However, there is a solution to him having a business of his own and he will get the help he desires.

    I'm speaking of several international lending institutions in undeveloped countries that help people get their own businesses and support them through the business ramp-up process. I don't know the name of any of these but surely someone else has heard of these besides me.

    As far as giving this gentleman information is concerned, it is best to encourage him in any way possible. I can only imagine that his desires are just like ours, his hopes just like ours and his drive just like ours. There is help for him; it would just be great to find it and connect him with it.

    I'll start looking myself; these banking operations have been showcased on shows like 60 Minutes and 20/20. They are funding business start-up projects all over the globe. He can get the help he desires. I know he can.

    Estelle
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  • So, did anyone say that they would help this guy that Steven talked about 172 posts back?

    Did anyone say that they would:

    1. Locate an IMer in his country to help him actually determine if IM is something he will actually want to do?
    2. Locate an international banking community to help him secure the money he needs to get started?
    3. Locate someone to help him learn English and stay by him to encourage him when times get harder as they will?
    4. Offer him something other than negative criticism to help him get started?
    5. Tell him of success stories in far off America that will help him salivate over the possibilities?
    6. Give him website addresses that will help him locate a community of IMers in his own country that may be able to help him get accustomed to and acquainted with IM and all its glory and pitfalls?
    7. Did anyone do anything other than gripe and dissect him to the inth degree to the point of KNOWING that he will be a failure just BECAUSE?

    No, I don't mean to insult, demean or castigate anyone here. I really love this place. My only regret is that I've not really seen an unbreakable chain put together to help support this struggling person. Yes, obviously he is from another country with seeming very limited skills but does that mean he can't make it in IM?

    I don't think so. That is evidenced by someone way up on page 3 that told of his own struggles and how the WF helped him not only learn to speak English but also start making money online. So, it can be done.

    What better way to enjoy greater success than to put this person in touch with someone in his own country that has already garnered IM success to help him get started.

    That way, we're all the more successful for it. And then, if he doesn't work at it it can be said that he is less than stellar in his pursuit and is deluding himself. But, we must wait until then in order to come to an honest conclusion about his intentions and work ethics.

    Whatever the outcome, let's at least offer a helping hand instead of a dissecting scalpel. Bleeding doesn't look good on us.

    Thanks.

    Estelle
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  • Profile picture of the author MaxineKelly
    So far what he was doing for his lively hood. I think he just need to be do that and that also in his local language. Now internet is everywhere and google adsense is the best option.

    So just tell him to write on those thing which he have command ... and I am sure this will works

    Best of Luck
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  • Profile picture of the author seobro
    Well, here is my take on the whole thing. Rather than look at his weakness, reposition them as strengths. Buy him a small camera from Bestbuy that can shoot video. Should be no more than $99 and get some girl from his village to sew him a costume.

    He can do videos as the "Love Guru" and post them on Youtube. His exotic locale and strange accent will make him look legit. He can dole out ancient wisdom to a happy crowd.

    Possible advertisers to sell space to are "Psychics, Astrologers, Tarot Readers" It should not take too long before he is rolling in millions.
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  • Profile picture of the author NickMarks
    Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

    We've had many a discussion the past couple of weeks about running your
    own home business and many here have said that anybody who wants to do
    this can make this work.

    I've said the opposite, that not everybody is cut out for this and got plenty
    of slack for it.

    Well, here is just one sample of the proof that not everybody is cut out for
    this business.

    This is an email I received recently. The only thing I edited was the person's
    name so as not to embarrass them.

    ***********************************
    Hello!

    I need Help I do not have a penny to use how can i make an internet
    business ...


    Regards,
    <name withheld>
    ***********************************

    Okay, at the risk of sounding prejudice, this person is from a non English
    speaking country (obvious from the email) and can just about communicate.

    In further correspondence, trying to actually help this person, I tried to
    get some idea of how bad their financial situation is and what skills they
    have so as to find out if there is anything they could do to maybe earn
    just a few dollars.

    After countless hours of assistance, the person has almost no command
    of the English language, has no money and has no skills. I tried to suggest
    Bum Marketing but there is no way this person can write an article that
    will get read. His English is that bad. He can't afford to outsource to get
    the articles written and has no skills to barter to have the articles written
    for him.

    In short, I wracked my brain trying to think of something that this person
    could do. And with 5 plus years of marketing smarts behind me, I couldn't
    come up with a thing.

    Okay, maybe I'M the stupid one. Maybe a real crackerjack marketer could
    turn this person into a profitable home business owner.

    If so. If you still believe that anybody can do this, post your suggestions
    below.

    Remember, he has no skills and no money and can just about speak English.

    I couldn't help him.

    Maybe YOU can.
    Oh? I don't agree with that at all.

    Give me an hour on the phone with anyone, and I'll set them up with a way to make money. I'll take a bum off the street and teach them how to make some money.

    Sure, when someone first starts off in IM, they won't think they know anything about anything, that's when you need to spend some time digging to find out what works for them, OR create the knowledge.

    Anyone can become an expert on any topic. The first thing I would have had this guy do was to research a market. Read books, ebooks on the subject and even take some free online classes to speak better English.

    Even if he can't speak good English, he can get by with forum marketing. Also, I would have set him up with a landing page for an affiliate program and have him do forum marketing. ANYONE can make money online. For some it just takes more time.

    Be it research, or creating a system for the person. It's easy, and yes, anyone can do this
    Signature

    Nick Marks is an author, speaker and was announced as the Internet Marketer Of The Year 2007 by Russell Brunson & DotComSecrets.

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  • Profile picture of the author Chris_Willow
    Some people suck @ business and you can do nothing about it...
    In fact- it's actually most of the population...

    It's a lot easier to work at mcdonalds than running your own business
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  • Nick, I like your style. At least you're willing to not only talk to someone but also travel with them down the road while teaching them what you know and expanding what they know.

    "Give and it shall be given to you; good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over shall men give into your bosom; for with what measure ye mete it will be measured to you again."

    That's what I'm talking about.

    Estelle
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  • You're right, Chris. Some people do suck (me included) but some are hungry to "get it" and with a little help, hand-holding and prodding, will get it because they're "hungry". They (we) may be a little slow but those patient, kind-hearted people who stay with them (us) are rewarded when we make some strides that help us leap to the head of the class.

    Thanks to those who help instead of sharing a battering ram. You're good as gold.

    Thanks again.

    Estelle
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  • Profile picture of the author zenmn
    Interesting social experiment Steve.

    I really admire the philanthropic part of you too; but you will do more good (overall) just being who you are and doing what you do, the way only Steve Wagaheim can do it.
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  • Profile picture of the author moodyresources
    After owning several businesses offline, all but one good, and knowing quite a a few successful business owner, not every one can do something just because someone else did it. This is nieve and ignores the complexities of the human experience.

    Great book by Wharton professors about the power of impossible thinking talks about mental models and the way we look at things.

    Just because person A did it, he looks through a narrow lens and thinks he has made it simple. Problem is, by the time he has figures it all out, it is simple to him, not necessarily to anyone else.
    Each person brings their own unique personality, experience, skills and much more to any opportunity.

    What should be is rarely what is.
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  • Profile picture of the author zachary0611
    Why not get him to put up a website about his frustrations trying to learn english? Im sure theres a big market for people who are frustrated trying to learn english. It would give him instant rapport with people in the same situtation and its pretty comical reading and listening to people who speak and write broken English. Get him started on blogger! lol
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  • It is absolutely not impossible for the subject in question to start a successful online business.

    However, it will never happen.

    The impossible part is motivating him to do what it would take. If he were willing to invest the time (months, or maybe even years), he could master our language and learn to put up a website. He could develop interests that could be developed into products. He could learn the techniques that the big names use and he could implement those techniques.

    The fact is, he doesn't want to put that much effort into his IM business. He feels it would be an unreasonable expenditure of energy. Maybe it would, maybe it wouldn't, but it doesn't matter what we think: what matters is what HE thinks, what time he's willing to devote and what things he's willing to sacrifice to make it happen.

    He has access to a computer. That gives him an advantage over a large number of people around the world.

    He knows how to use a computer. That gives him an advantage over many people (like my grandparents, for instance).

    He doesn't sound as if he's mentally handicapped. He may not have a genius IQ, but an IM business doesn't require a genius IQ. All he needs is a solid command of his mental facilities.

    He already has a start in English.

    Given the skills and resources we already know he has, it is entirely possible for him to find (and participate in) a free online english course.

    After he has a firm grasp of English (or maybe before!), he could spend time with one of the thousands of free HTML/CSS tutorials.

    In the time it takes him to do these things, he could enrich his life and gain fodder for future products by developing interests and hobbies. He could join forums like this one and make friends in the IM world. IMers, more than any other group I've encountered, get a kick out of helping newbies join them in success.

    Where there's a will, there's a way. Where there's no will, there's no way. I think this is a case of the latter. He COULD make it happen. But he won't. It's not worth it to him. End of story.
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    Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with ketchup.

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  • Profile picture of the author imon32red
    Years ago I owned a tire store. When someone was interested in working for us we always had them start with an old tire and wheel. We would show them how to use one of the machines to put the tire on, and then take it back off. We would do it several times and them watch them do it several times to help them understand the basics. You could almost always tell at this point who was going to make it and who wasn't. Then we would walk away and come back in an hour or so to see their progress.

    At the end of an hour we would know if they were going to cut or not and so would they. Usually if they were not cut out for the job then they would politely thank us and then leave. One time a friend asked us to give his son a try as a favor. In the first hour he had torn the tire to pieces but refused to give up. We let him work the rest of the day and then the next. Because of his dad we let him work all week. By the end of the week he was not any better than the first day. We ended up paying him for a weeks worth of work for nothing. At this point he was even more determined than ever to make it. Letting him go was quite hard and both he and his dad took offense to it.

    I guess if I still owned the store (10 years later) and had kept him on there is a slim chance that he might be able to cut it. I highly doubt it. I think that we made a wise choice in letting him go. Hopefully he found a rewarding career, that he is good at.
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    I'm not selling anything.
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