Unsolicited PMs for product reviews

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Unsolicited PMs begging for product reviews.

I hate these.

Absolutely despise them.

If you've followed me for any length of time, you know I like to help people.

But I am sick and tired of literally years of receiving, "You're so respected...will you review our software / WSO / exhaust rumble?"

No, I won't.

The moxy is fine. Asking is fine.

The issue is that you expect me to provide my expertise and time for free.

The two decades of experience. The 3 years of taking 10 and 11, then 7 courses a term busting my ass back in '94-97 to get my certifications. The 15 years of corporate executive experience after that. And the over three years running my business following those.

No, you don't get that expertise and the resulting broad and unique point of view for free.

A couple of "butter up" sentences and "we think you'll really like it" lines I've seen a thousand times before will not get me to give you my most precious resource.

Your product, sorry to say, is not unique.

You may think it is. I have seen many like it.

And who are you?? If you just did a post count search and we've never interacted before, why should I risk connecting my name with someone I've never heard of before?

Which leads me to an all-too-common sales issue I strongly suspect these people may be suffering from:

Thinking about what they can GET instead of what they can GIVE.

If all you want is sales, you're not thinking like a customer.

And if you're not thinking like a customer, you're not really thinking about user experience, are you.

Really contemplate this.


This is the third version of this post. I've deleted and rewritten it a couple times with waits in between because I don't think people will really care. But I feel I have to express this, and I'm trying to express it positively.

If what you wanted me to say was, "Jimmy has a great product here!" that's not what you would have gotten back from me anyway.

It would have been more like, "Here's where your process fails the user. Fix this and you'll have a much better product."

So few people here have any real expertise. If what you want is gushing, "OMG it was SO AWESOME like a Super Nova Waterslide!!! :-DDDD" BS review, then post in Help Wanted. If you want a genuinely constructive review that will improve your product and thereby your user experience, customer service and sales, then be prepared to invest in getting that information.

Invest some time in interacting with the person you are interested in feedback from.

You know how you look when you PM me in the middle of the night two days before your big launch? "HELP! I left this to the last minute"--shows you just how important this is to you, doesn't it--"and will you say some nice stuff about me?"

Just do that one thing. Start the interaction before you ask. Do it well ahead of when you need the feedback.

THEN, when you ask for it, you'll have a chance because the expert you're asking will know and care a bit about you.

And get into the mentality of looking for feedback that isn't necessarily glowing. That will help you create a better product. If someone I had seen and had a couple back-and-forths with said they were making a new product, and asked for my feedback...and then made improvements based on what I recommended...I'd be very happy to write a public review detailing how much they care about their customers.

But instead, you try to rush into getting the expert to drop everything and look at your lackluster product.

This is a SALE, and you're trying to go from "Hey, just popped a business card through your mail slot--will you marry me?"

No, I won't.
#pms #product #reviews #unsolicited
  • Profile picture of the author daftdog
    Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan View Post

    Unsolicited PMs begging for product reviews.

    I hate these.

    Absolutely despise them.

    If you've followed me for any length of time, you know I like to help people.

    But I am sick and tired of literally years of receiving, "You're so respected...will you review our software / WSO / exhaust rumble?"

    No, I won't.

    The moxy is fine. Asking is fine.

    The issue is that you expect me to provide my expertise and time for free.

    The two decades of experience. The 3 years of taking 10 and 11, then 7 courses a term busting my ass back in '94-97 to get my certifications. The 15 years of corporate executive experience after that. And the over three years running my business following those.

    No, you don't get that expertise and the resulting broad and unique point of view for free.

    A couple of "butter up" sentences and "we think you'll really like it" lines I've seen a thousand times before will not get me to give you my most precious resource.

    Your product, sorry to say, is not unique.

    You may think it is. I have seen many like it.

    And who are you?? If you just did a post count search and we've never interacted before, why should I risk connecting my name with someone I've never heard of before?

    Which leads me to an all-too-common sales issue I strongly suspect these people may be suffering from:

    Thinking about what they can GET instead of what they can GIVE.

    If all you want is sales, you're not thinking like a customer.

    And if you're not thinking like a customer, you're not really thinking about user experience, are you.

    Really contemplate this.


    This is the third version of this post. I've deleted and rewritten it a couple times with waits in between because I don't think people will really care. But I feel I have to express this, and I'm trying to express it positively.

    If what you wanted me to say was, "Jimmy has a great product here!" that's not what you would have gotten back from me anyway.

    It would have been more like, "Here's where your process fails the user. Fix this and you'll have a much better product."

    So few people here have any real expertise. If what you want is gushing, "OMG it was SO AWESOME like a Super Nova Waterslide!!! :-DDDD" BS review, then post in Help Wanted. If you want a genuinely constructive review that will improve your product and thereby your user experience, customer service and sales, then be prepared to invest in getting that information.

    Invest some time in interacting with the person you are interested in feedback from.

    You know how you look when you PM me in the middle of the night two days before your big launch? "HELP! I left this to the last minute"--shows you just how important this is to you, doesn't it--"and will you say some nice stuff about me?"

    Just do that one thing. Start the interaction before you ask. Do it well ahead of when you need the feedback.

    THEN, when you ask for it, you'll have a chance because the expert you're asking will know and care a bit about you.

    And get into the mentality of looking for feedback that isn't necessarily glowing. That will help you create a better product. If someone I had seen and had a couple back-and-forths with said they were making a new product, and asked for my feedback...and then made improvements based on what I recommended...I'd be very happy to write a public review detailing how much they care about their customers.

    But instead, you try to rush into getting the expert to drop everything and look at your lackluster product.

    This is a SALE, and you're trying to go from "Hey, just popped a business card through your mail slot--will you marry me?"

    No, I won't.

    You really do think a lot of yourself! Why even bother coming on here to interact with such annoying people? and wouldn't a polite "Sorry, No but good luck anyway" be enough in answer to the swarms of PM's you get?
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    • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
      Originally Posted by daftdog View Post

      You really do think a lot of yourself! Why even bother coming on here to interact with such annoying people? and wouldn't a polite "Sorry, No but good luck anyway" be enough in answer to the swarms of PM's you get?
      Of course I was going to get hate from my message.

      Instead of taking the message and using it.

      That's cool. It was expected.
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      • Profile picture of the author positivenegative
        Originally Posted by daftdog View Post

        You really do think a lot of yourself! Why even bother coming on here to interact with such annoying people? and wouldn't a polite "Sorry, No but good luck anyway" be enough in answer to the swarms of PM's you get?
        daftdog was 100% correct. You really do have an inflated ego to match the personal opinion you have of yourself.


        Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan View Post

        Of course I was going to get hate from my message.

        Instead of taking the message and using it.

        That's cool. It was expected.
        Here we go. Someone posts a simple reply asking why you can't politely refuse or even ignore unsolicited PM's, and you come out with the old John Durham line that anyone disagreeing with you is a "hater".

        I'll tell you something. Your post was a long-winded rant full of "puffs" for your so called years of experience, and unashamedly sprinkled with veiled hints as to how VERY IMPORTANT you are.

        Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan View Post

        The two decades of experience. The 3 years of taking 10 and 11, then 7 courses a term busting my ass back in '94-97 to get my certifications. The 15 years of corporate executive experience after that. And the over three years running my business following those.
        In the context of this forum you really are no more important than any other member. Are you sure a Mr Bigshot like yourself even needs the WF?

        It riles me that certain WF members such as yourself take great pains to carefully craft an aura about yourself, and then post a thread like this that criticizes the very people whose money you've in all likelihood taken over the years.

        Get real. A LOT of people see right through you on this forum.
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        • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
          Originally Posted by positivenegative View Post

          daftdog was 100% correct. You really do have an inflated ego to match the personal opinion you have of yourself.




          Here we go. Someone posts a simple reply asking why you can't politely refuse or even ignore unsolicited PM's, and you come out with the old John Durham line that anyone disagreeing with you is a "hater".

          I'll tell you something. Your post was a long-winded rant full of "puffs" for your so called years of experience, and unashamedly sprinkled with veiled hints as to how VERY IMPORTANT you are.



          In the context of this forum you really are no more important than any other member. Are you sure a Mr Bigshot like yourself even needs the WF?

          It riles me that certain WF members such as yourself take great pains to carefully craft an aura about yourself, and then post a thread like this that criticizes the very people whose money you've in all likelihood taken over the years.

          Get real. A LOT of people see right through you on this forum.
          That's nice.

          Guess nobody is asking you for anything. I get PMs all the time, that's EXACTLY what they say, and in fact got one (and answered it) right after writing the original post.


          You know, Hate Never Comes From Above. It's cool. I knew I was going to get some hate for posting this. Looks like a lot of people agree with me. And you're not really "disagreeing", are you...more...hating.

          I use my real name...you're anonymous. How 'bout you sign your work?

          I've been giving great information to the members of this forum for free for years. You? Never heard of you. Am I criticizing people who ask for help? Nope. I'm recommending an improvement on how they go about it in a specific case.

          WF accounts for 0% (zero percent) of my revenue plan. If something comes in, great; but I'm not expecting it. I'm here for entertainment and helping people who are really trying and have specific questions. It takes about 20 minutes a day altogether in a few visits.



          Hardly the stat of someone who cares about making money through their sig lnk.

          "See through me"? I dunno, I'm pretty thick.

          Haters Gonna Hate. The only way to avoid it is do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.

          You could, you know, keep it on track and talk about the ISSUE. The effective way to ask for help.
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          • Profile picture of the author positivenegative
            Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan View Post

            Guess nobody is asking you for anything. I get PMs all the time, and in fact got one (and answered it) right after writing the original post.
            You'd be wrong there. I'm also polite to PM's I receive, and unlike you I don't feel I have to write a post of War and Peace proportions about it.


            Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan View Post

            You know, Hate Never Comes From Above. It's cool. I knew I was going to get some hate for posting this. Looks like a lot of people agree with me. And you're not really "disagreeing", are you...more...hating.
            Once again, playing the old "hate" card. Just can't resist it can you.

            FYI, other people DO have opinions, and if they just happen to disagree with yours then in all probability I would place them in the "smart" bracket, not "haters".

            Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan View Post

            I use my real name...you're anonymous. How 'bout you sign your work?
            You? Never heard of you.
            I've been a member here since 2003, but had another username. Plenty people on this forum know me, particularly in the OTF.

            I don't sell anything on here. I don't have a signature link. Unlike you.

            Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan View Post

            WF accounts for 0% (zero percent) of my revenue plan. If something comes in, great; but I'm not expecting it. I'm here for entertainment and helping people who are really trying and have specific questions. It takes about 20 minutes a day altogether in a few visits.
            A complete lie


            Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan View Post

            "See through me"? I dunno, I'm pretty thick.
            No comment necessary.


            Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan View Post

            Haters Gonna Hate. The only way to avoid it is do nothing, say nothing, be nothing.
            There you go again. Try to fire everyone down with your "hate" and "hater" remarks. You're incapable of making a single post with using either of those words, where someone is in disagreement with you. Pretty sad really.


            Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan View Post

            You could, you know, keep it on track and talk about the ISSUE. The effective way to ask for help.
            I prefer to stand by my original comments in my earlier post, and in agreement with @daftdog

            And, as @Igibbon stated earlier in the thread, "a quick search on google" should provide anyone with all the information they need if they're further interested in the real Jason Kanigan. I WOULD STRONGLY RECOMMEND THIS TO ALL WF USERS .

            You've brought this on yourself with your attitude in this thread. Nothing more needs to be said, even though you'll still post again denying everything. I won't waste any more words on you. Google can take over.
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            • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
              Originally Posted by positivenegative View Post

              You'd be wrong there. I'm also polite to PM's I receive, and unlike you I don't feel I have to write a post of War and Peace proportions about it.




              There you go again. Playing the old "hate" card. Just can't resist it can you.

              FYI, other people DO have opinions, and if they just happen to disagree with yours then in all probability I would place them in the "smart" bracket, not "haters".



              I've been a member here since 2003, but had another username. Plenty people on this forum know me, particularly in the OTF.

              I don't sell anything on here. I don't have a signature link. Unlike you.



              A complete lie




              No comment necessary.




              There you go again. Try to fire everyone down with your "hate" and "hater" remarks. Pretty sad really.




              I prefer to stand by my original comments in my earlier post, and in agreement with @daftdog

              And, as @Igibbon stated earlier in the thread, "a quick search on google" should provide anyone with all the information they need if they're further interested in the real Jason Kanigan. Nothing more needs to be said.
              Anonymous hate from anonymous haters just like you.

              People who are afraid to sign their work. You can say anything you like online, without anyone checking facts, if you do it hiding from the shadows.

              That's all right. The people who work with me know the difference.

              There will always be winners and losers.

              Some people hate Cesar Milan, The Dog Whisperer. (Baffled? A couple anonymous people hated on me when I ran a FUNDRAISER. Sick, sick people who would never do a thing to help someone else.)

              You're actually "accusing" me of having a signature link. OK. Knock yourself out.

              These same people were outraged I moved from Canada to the US in 2009, had to wait through immigration, and then *gasp* figure out what to do for work. Wow! What a shock!

              But anyway, you are so far off track in this discussion it's hilarious. Read Sid Hale's post above; THAT'S what this thread is about. You want to turn it into a hatefest, because you can't add anyting to the discussion. People can see right through you.
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        • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
          Originally Posted by positivenegative View Post

          Your post was a long-winded rant full of "puffs" for your so called years of experience, and unashamedly sprinkled with veiled hints as to how VERY IMPORTANT you are.
          More than half of that post is real, actionable advice for getting people with this kind of expertise to view your request more favourably.

          If all you take away from it is "oh he thinks he's so important," well,


          In the context of this forum you really are no more important than any other member.
          Neither are you, in case you haven't connected the dots on that.

          Neither am I, for that matter.

          Are you sure a Mr Bigshot like yourself even needs the WF?
          Wrong question. Go back to the OP:

          "Thinking about what they can GET instead of what they can GIVE."

          Jason is not here because he thinks he needs the Warrior Forum. He is here because he thinks the Warrior Forum needs him.

          He received an unsolicited PM for a product review, and instead of just saying "how about no" and being done with it, he spent the time to bring a reality check into the main forum. To help you. For free. Because he likes to help people. And clearly, this is the kind of help some people here need.

          Refusing the help doesn't make you any better or smarter. Kind of the opposite.

          It riles me that certain WF members such as yourself take great pains to carefully craft an aura about yourself, and then post a thread like this that criticizes the very people whose money you've in all likelihood taken over the years.
          It's unethical when you refuse to criticise people who have paid you.

          Just in case you didn't know.
          Signature
          "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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          • Profile picture of the author Sid Hale
            Darklock,

            Excellent!

            (because Thank You simply wasn't good enough)
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          • Profile picture of the author lgibbon
            Banned
            Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post


            Jason is not here because he thinks he needs the Warrior Forum. He is here because he thinks the Warrior Forum needs him.
            That has got to be the biggest load of rubbish, that's ever been posted here.
            Some people really need to get back to reality.
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            • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
              Originally Posted by lgibbon View Post

              That has got to be the biggest load of rubbish, that's ever been posted here.
              Why thank you. Go big or go home, I always say.

              Some people really need to get back to reality.
              Reality IS rubbish, in case you hadn't noticed.

              The overwhelming majority of what people pay me for is stuff they already know.

              I just call it a "secret" and charge money for it.

              That's reality. And it's rubbish.
              Signature
              "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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    • Profile picture of the author Sid Hale
      Hi daftdog,

      Don't be daft!

      Originally Posted by daftdog View Post

      You really do think a lot of yourself! Why even bother coming on here to interact with such annoying people? and wouldn't a polite "Sorry, No but good luck anyway" be enough in answer to the swarms of PM's you get?
      There was nothing "impolite" about Jason's post, and just maybe it will reduce the number of PM requests like this that he receives in the future.

      But there's a much bigger purpose (and need for) Jason's post - at least the way I see it.

      Anyone requesting a product review (when what they really want is a testimonial) shows little respect for the person he's making the request of. Good Luck with that strategy.

      "Hey, I know your rep will go a long way in boosting sales on my upcoming WSO, so I'll gladly give you a free copy of the product in exchange". They aren't usually worded quite so blatantly, but it's pretty obvious (with very little "read between the lines") that is exactly what they are proposing.

      If someone really does want an honest review, they need to realize just how big a request that is and believe me when I say that a free copy of the product doesn't come close to being a fair level of compensation for that imposition.

      You can't just multiply some fictional $/hour rate by the amount of time that would be required. Think about the fact that the time you are asking for is time that cannot be spent on their own business goals.

      I feel pretty comfortable saying that I doubt many could afford the fee if they came right out and asked to pay for their review/testimonial, so asking for one "gratis" is a pretty big imposition.

      That said, I know that I (and I expect that Jason) have occasionally taken the time to do a product review, but...
      1) I have already used the product and like it enough to give up that time, or 2) I already have a pretty strong relationship with the product creator and decide to commit the required time to do a thorough review of the product.

      I'm guessing this is getting pretty long (and I could go on for hours on this), so I'll cut this off here and just hope that I made my point.
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      • Profile picture of the author daftdog
        Originally Posted by Sid Hale View Post

        Hi daftdog,

        Don't be daft!



        There was nothing "impolite" about Jason's post, and just maybe it will reduce the number of PM requests like this that he receives in the future.

        But there's a much bigger purpose (and need for) Jason's post - at least the way I see it.

        Anyone requesting a product review (when what they really want is a testimonial) shows little respect for the person he's making the request of. Good Luck with that strategy.

        "Hey, I know your rep will go a long way in boosting sales on my upcoming WSO, so I'll gladly give you a free copy of the product in exchange". They aren't usually worded quite so blatantly, but it's pretty obvious (with very little "read between the lines") that is exactly what they are proposing.

        If someone really does want an honest review, they need to realize just how big a request that is and believe me when I say that a free copy of the product doesn't come close to being a fair level of compensation for that imposition.

        You can't just multiply some fictional $/hour rate by the amount of time that would be required. Think about the fact that the time you are asking for is time that cannot be spent on their own business goals.

        I feel pretty comfortable saying that I doubt many could afford the fee if they came right out and asked to pay for their review/testimonial, so asking for one "gratis" is a pretty big imposition.

        That said, I know that I (and I expect that Jason) have occasionally taken the time to do a product review, but...
        1) I have already used the product and like it enough to give up that time, or 2) I already have a pretty strong relationship with the product creator and decide to commit the required time to do a thorough review of the product.

        I'm guessing this is getting pretty long (and I could go on for hours on this), so I'll cut this off here and just hope that I made my point.
        I didn't say his post was impolite, I said he really thinks a lot of himself. Maybe he should have posted his CV? I dont care about what he did in the past and posting just to inflame his already huge ego is unneeded. He made that post to get attention, if he really was so bothered with the 1000's of PM's he gets just write "Stop PMing me, I will not review anyones product" or something along those lines.

        Im proud of my 3 Tours of Afghan with the Paras but I dont even mention that on my about page on my sites. Whatever is your History and does not apply to Making Money Online, leave it in the past and away from the WF.
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        • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
          Originally Posted by daftdog View Post

          I didn't say his post was impolite, I said he really thinks a lot of himself. Maybe he should have posted his CV? I dont care about what he did in the past and posting just to inflame his already huge ego is unneeded. He made that post to get attention, if he really was so bothered with the 1000's of PM's he gets just write "Stop PMing me, I will not review anyones product" or something along those lines.

          Im proud of my 3 Tours of Afghan with the Paras but I dont even mention that on my about page on my sites. Whatever is your History and does not apply to Making Money Online, leave it in the past and away from the WF.
          Are you kidding me??

          Experience doesn't matter??

          Hmm.
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    • Profile picture of the author Sid Hale
      I can't even imagine what prompted this...

      Originally Posted by daftdog View Post

      You really do think a lot of yourself! Why even bother coming on here to interact with such annoying people? and wouldn't a polite "Sorry, No but good luck anyway" be enough in answer to the swarms of PM's you get?
      Or maybe I can. Were you, perhaps, denied?

      I can't think of any other reason you would want to lambast the OP for that post.

      As for your question re: responding to the swarm of PM's...
      PM is "Private Message". How he responds is really none of your concern.

      Not mine, either - but I hope he has sense enough to just ignore them.
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      • Profile picture of the author daftdog
        Originally Posted by Sid Hale View Post

        I can't even imagine what prompted this...



        Or maybe I can. Were you, perhaps, denied?

        I can't think of any other reason you would want to lambast the OP for that post.

        As for your question re: responding to the swarm of PM's...
        PM is "Private Message". How he responds is really none of your concern.

        Not mine, either - but I hope he has sense enough to just ignore them.
        Not sure mate why you are telling me what PM means or what you mean by me being denied and I don't really care but I do agree about him having the sense to ignore them and just an FYI, you said it is none of my business how he replies, well of course not but he did create a PUBLIC thread about it....

        Anyway I have learnt over the years that people are how they are and they can rarely be changed when sitting safely in their house on their laptop so I don't get bothered, nothing more can I learn from this thread so I am deleting the email notice and wishing you ALL a great safe Weekend (even Huge Ego Guy who started the thread).
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  • Profile picture of the author quadagon
    Great post I love the spirit of it.

    I tell my crowd funding prospects something similar. Although I call it will you **** me marketing (as I'm probably not as polite as you).

    I think that you can tell the people who've had experience of real world sales and real world selling. They have a different attitude and see sales as a win win experience for seller and buyer.
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan View Post

    Unsolicited PMs begging for product reviews.
    I just deleted one. It's really a form of forum SPAM.

    -Ray Edwards
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  • Profile picture of the author Sid Hale
    Hey daftdog,

    I guess I just don't understand why you have a problem with someone else posting a "rant".

    You wouldn't have wanted me jumping in on yours to defame you/your character.

    http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...-them-all.html

    Let's face it. That's just a tirade against another common practice of many here on the forum. What's the difference?

    Did you just come back to the WF to launch your new WSO and to create last minute "buzz" to get it noticed?
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  • Profile picture of the author Regional Warrior
    One of the best threads is ages jusst like the old days , even though this was a rant by Jason , what i find amusing is that Daft whatever... is a sig spamer after he does product reviews! and the rant is about PMs for Jason to help with the review products.
    sorry been p all night hope it makes sence
    RW
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