Transfer of Domain name from rogue developer

Alexandre Valois

9 years ago

Originally Posted by codecreative

Do we need to have a lawyer involved? My client can't affoard one

Can they afford to lose their domain?

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Kay King 9 years ago

How ever the old developers don't want to loose them and won't update the domains name servers or release the domain to her or me

Does she owe them money?

If SHE registered the domain - why can't she change the dns? I understand the developed might block access to the site - but to the registrar??? A lawyer may be her only option - would be worth a small fee to consult with an attorney.
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- Steve B 9 years ago
  
  If your client really is the registered owner (check the WHOIS), then there should be nothing stopping that owner from making a change in the registration to exclude the "rogue developer" and change the domain name server information.
  
  If your client allowed the developer to register the domain name to the developer, then you have a problem and you should get professional legal assistance. By applying some pressure to the original developer, you should be able to get them to release their hold on the name.
  
  Steve
  
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fantrom

9 years ago

Originally Posted by codecreative

Their domain name is a .com domain name and they are the legal owners.

How ever the old developers don't want to loose them and won't update the domains name servers or release the domain to her or me.

What are our options?

If they are the legal owners how is it that the developer has the power not to release the domain?

It boils down to who registered the domain. Your client or the developer?

If it was your client then simply call the registrar and they should sort this out quickly.

Now if it was the developer it may take an attorney (or threat of one) to clear this mess up.

Remember that it doesn't matter if the developers name/info is under administrator, is whose name is under registrant that is the most important.

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codecreative

9 years ago

Okay I think I need to clarify a bit

The web development agency registered the domain name in the clients details. I have checked on whois at icann and the client owns the domain and is the registrant

How ever the domain name "lives" in a 123 reg account that belongs to the previous agency. Along with all their other clients domains and hosting. So they are able to manage the domain.

I can't get them to transfre it over to us.

So is there a process the client can go through to over ride them?

If the domain was a .co.uk this is possible via the nominet website but there doesn't seem to be anything like thish for a .com domain

Please advise

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Jack Gordon

9 years ago

Originally Posted by codecreative

The web development agency registered the domain name in the clients details. I have checked on whois at icann and the client owns the domain and is the registrant

In the old days, that would have been enough to initiate a transfer out.

Today, it is likely an authorization code will also be required, which brings us back to Kay and Steve's comments.

Is there a reason the old developer is holding onto this, like unpaid bills?

If not, you will likely need to provide a little extra motivation. If they have no justification for holding it, a letter from an attorney should do the trick.

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codecreative

9 years ago

For example I have often have clients who need domains buying and I do this for them via my own reseller account but I ensure the domain is registered in the clients name. But I buy it and go through the process of associating and setting up hosting with this domain etc

If I for what ever reason wasn't available or died etc the client can just force the domain out of my account via nominent for a .co.uk

So please guys constructive comments only we want to help a client out who is upset and worried for her business. How can we bypass the previous web agency. If it can be done with .co.uk im sure the same thing should be available for .com

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KirkMcD

9 years ago

There is no process. They need a lawyer.

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rhinocl

9 years ago

If you speak to customer support at a registrar like Namecheap and tell them you'd like to transfer the registration to a new account with them, then you might get additional insights.

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Kay King 9 years ago

I can't get them to transfre it over to us.

You still haven't said why they won't transfer the name.

Are they trying to keep customers by force? Or is there money owed? Something isn't right with this story.
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codecreative

9 years ago

hi sure there is more to the story

the old agency were ripping them off $1000 a month for seo and doing nothing for them and no results after 18 months, were coming in at a fraction of the price helping them and for free rebuilt the entire site for them it looks so much better

how ever there is no contract or minimum term between them and the old provider and they are demanding another month be paid as a settlement to say good bye.

There is no legal ground for this. There is no minimum contract.And the company have shown no evidence of any work done and also results speak for them selves they get no enquiries from the site and no page 1 rankings for terms with decent search volume

Okay so what do I do now?

Keel over and allow them to waste more money, $1000 to have the domain come over?

If this is the situation why have a legal owner of a domain name when the american system or way of doing things allow for cowboys and unethical agencies to win and profit. This seems unfair if I am being honest. No offense intended. Just trying to do the right thing for my decent client.

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Alexandre Valois

9 years ago

Originally Posted by codecreative

hi sure there is more to the story

the old agency were ripping them off $1000 a month for seo and doing nothing for them and no results after 18 months, were coming in at a fraction of the price helping them and for free rebuilt the entire site for them it looks so much better

how ever there is no contract or minimum term between them and the old provider and they are demanding another month be paid as a settlement to say good bye.

There is no legal ground for this. There is no minimum contract.And the company have shown no evidence of any work done and also results speak for them selves they get no enquiries from the site and no page 1 rankings for terms with decent search volume

Okay so what do I do now?

Keel over and allow them to waste more money, $1000 to have the domain come over?

If this is the situation why have a legal owner of a domain name when the american system or way of doing things allow for cowboys and unethical agencies to win and profit. This seems unfair if I am being honest. No offense intended. Just trying to do the right thing for my decent client.

The right thing for your client is to let their lawyer handle this.

Thanks

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fantrom 9 years ago

Originally Posted by codecreative

How ever there is no contract.

There is no legal ground for this. There is no minimum contract.

There is your problem right there and why your client will probably need a lawyer.

So is there a binding contract... yes or no?

You can't speak of legal grounds when a solid contract is not involved.

This will probably come down to a he said she said situation where the most clarity will
come from the email communications they had during the entire process.
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JC Web

9 years ago

If the other company bought the domain and still has possession of the domain in their account, then without a legal contract that says they must turn it over to your client, your client never legally owned the domain. Like others said, you have to get a lawyer involved if you want a chance of getting it transferred to you.

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codecreative

9 years ago

Hi

Okay I think you guys are seriously missing the point.

My client is the legal owner according to an ican who is.

So the client owns the domain not the the previous rogue company understand ???

The previous company have control of the domain in their account that is all.

So if they can't force the domain away what is the point of icann storing who the legal owner of a domain is?

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fantrom

9 years ago

Originally Posted by codecreative

Hi

Okay I think you guys are seriously missing the point.

My client is the legal owner according to an ican who is.

So the client owns the domain not the the previous rogue company understand ???

The previous company have control of the domain in their account that is all.

So if they can't force the domain away what is the point of icann storing who the legal owner of a domain is?

If this is true and your client are the legal owners of the domain then call the registrar and have the current developer removed. The domain is controlled from the registrar and not from the developers account.

It's not about who has control (admin) but who is the legal owners of the domain.

What is this account (if not the registrar) that the developer controls the domain from?

Have you even tried contacting the registrar where the domain was registered?

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Jack Gordon

9 years ago

Originally Posted by codecreative

Hi

Okay I think you guys are seriously missing the point.

My client is the legal owner according to an ican who is.

So the client owns the domain not the the previous rogue company understand ???

The previous company have control of the domain in their account that is all.

So if they can't force the domain away what is the point of icann storing who the legal owner of a domain is?

Nobody is missing the point. Possession is 9/10 of the law.

I can put your name on any of my domains anytime I want. It wouldn't mean squat, because my registrar won't let the domain go anywhere until I log in to my account and authorize it.

Your clients may think they "own" the domain, but until the people controlling it release it, they don't own anything.

They need a lawyer or a check for $1000.

I would try the lawyer first, with a strongly worded letter on law firm letterhead. But if they resist, honestly, the check for $1000 may end up being cheaper. Not to mention, with a little diplomacy they can probably settle for a lot less.

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Kay King

9 years ago

The bigger point is this:

As I understand it - your "connection" is that you want (and apparently will be getting) this client as your own client.

The dispute about payment is between the client and the person he hired 18 months ago. Basically - the client knows whether he owes a month or not.

He knows if there is a contract or not (stupid if not) - and whether payments were made in advance or at the END of a month for the past 18 months. It's up to this client to resolve or arbitrate or get a lawyer.

In my opinion, you have no standing in this dispute and should stay out of it for your own sake.

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Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog

***

Dear April: I don't want any trouble from you.

January was long, February was iffy, March was a freaking dumpster fire.

So sit down, be quiet, and don't touch anything.

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Steve B

9 years ago

Not only what Kay said . . . I would ask myself if I really want this person as a client for my own business - he/she sounds kind of flakey to me.

Steve

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codecreative

9 years ago

Originally Posted by fantrom

If this is true and your client are the legal owners of the domain then call the registrar and have the current developer removed. The domain is controlled from the registrar and not from the developers account.

It's not about who has control (admin) but who is the legal owners of the domain.

What is this account (if not the registrar) that the developer controls the domain from?

Have you even tried contacting the registrar where the domain was registered?

Hi. I contacted the registrar who are 123 reg. They explained its not something they can do. It's in the old developers account and thats who can transfer it out.

Originally Posted by Jack Gordon

Nobody is missing the point. Possession is 9/10 of the law.

I can put your name on any of my domains anytime I want. It wouldn't mean squat, because my registrar won't let the domain go anywhere until I log in to my account and authorize it.

Your clients may think they "own" the domain, but until the people controlling it release it, they don't own anything.

They need a lawyer or a check for $1000.

I would try the lawyer first, with a strongly worded letter on law firm letterhead. But if they resist, honestly, the check for $1000 may end up being cheaper. Not to mention, with a little diplomacy they can probably settle for a lot less.

That is terrible. Really it undermines the point of having a legal owner of a domain name on the icann who is. It cultivates a situation where clients can be held to ransom. What if I tell a client you want to leave? Sure pay me 20k as a settlement figure. In the UK that simply dosen't happen. There is a process that takes effect based on the legal status of who owns a domain. I beg the question as to why you have not got this process in the US and I feel this undermines the authority of the legal status owner of a domain name. For example I feel I'm just appeaseing a client or bullshi**ting them when I say hey the domain is in your name so you legally own it. (how ever if I don't want to give it you when you want to leave me for a better cheaper provider I can tell you no no no)

Originally Posted by Kay King

The bigger point is this:

As I understand it - your "connection" is that you want (and apparently will be getting) this client as your own client.

The dispute about payment is between the client and the person he hired 18 months ago. Basically - the client knows whether he owes a month or not.

He knows if there is a contract or not (stupid if not) - and whether payments were made in advance or at the END of a month for the past 18 months. It's up to this client to resolve or arbitrate or get a lawyer.

In my opinion, you have no standing in this dispute and should stay out of it for your own sake.

The connection is simple. They are my client now. They have paid me now and I have built them a beautiful site they are thrilled with on a development link that needs to go live on the domain. I am providing great value for money and doing an honest job.

The fact there is no contract with a minimum term in place is a beautiful thing for the client. This means that she is not committed to staying with this old rogue developer. If they don't provide a service that she is happy with she can go else where. When you go to a restaurant for a meal you dont agree to a 12 month minimum term. You don't have to keep going for your family meal at that place if your not happy with the service you get. A contract with minimum term in place is to help a business retain a client base from leverage of a legal frame work not from leverage of great service. There was a terms of service provided which clearly states what they will and won't do for my new client but that hasn't been meant. If a terms of service is what you mean by contract then there is one. But she is not committed to stay with them for 1 day longer then she has to. She has served notice to leave and wanted to leave for 2 months now. They want to ask her to pay for another months service despite the fact she doesn't want it.

Originally Posted by Steve B

Not only what Kay said . . . I would ask myself if I really want this person as a client for my own business - he/she sounds kind of flakey to me.

Steve

Hi Steve. That is a subjective assumption that you have made. The client is in fact a well established dental practice. I have met with the directors on several occasions and they are in my opinion a very good easy going client who simply have been paying for a service that is sub standard that has delivered no results. That has no page 1 rankings for any terms with search volume that could be classed as more then negligable. This is not a flakey customer. I think if you was in this position you may consider its time to go somewhere else. Your comments aren't that constructive to the discussion of me helping to save my new client from being ripped off any more.

You have a responsibility to take due care for your clients and ensure they are happy.

Can I ask what made you come to this (in my opinion) inaccurate and unfair remark that the client is flakey? Which implies this is some how their own fault?

Love the discussion thanks for the feedback guys.

I hope the client isn't in a position where she is held to ransome and must pay the old developers who ride of into the sunsent dirnking mojito's chatting about how many clients they have ripped and how many more they have to rip off in order to buy the new condon in Miami. I hope it isn't a choice of pay them or pay a solicitor. I hope there is a simple process in place that actually demonstrates the significance of placing a legal owner of a domain name under the icann whois.

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Jack Gordon

9 years ago

Originally Posted by codecreative

That is terrible. Really it undermines the point of having a legal owner of a domain name on the icann who is. It cultivates a situation where clients can be held to ransom. What if I tell a client you want to leave? Sure pay me 20k as a settlement figure. In the UK that simply dosen't happen. There is a process that takes effect based on the legal status of who owns a domain. I beg the question as to why you have not got this process in the US and I feel this undermines the authority of the legal status owner of a domain name. For example I feel I'm just appeaseing a client or bullshi**ting them when I say hey the domain is in your name so you legally own it. (how ever if I don't want to give it you when you want to leave me for a better cheaper provider I can tell you no no no)

It is not a perfect system, but it is not hard to work within the system if the contractor is ethical or the client is knowledgeable. I agree, though, that the way it is, it is too easy for unethical contractors to take advantage of inexperienced clients.

I am an enom reseller. When I used to do web design, I would register domains for my clients in my account, then create an independent subaccount for them, push their domain to it, and hand them the password. This did two things: it gave them actual ownership (i.e. control) over the domain, and in most cases it turned them into a domain client as well, as at the minimum, they would renew their domain each year.and earn me a small commission.

You need to come clean with your client. You led them to believe you could handle this transfer. But Kay is right - you are not really a party to the conflict. Unless you want to negotiate or pony up the $1k, you need to tell them that you were wrong about how it works, and urge them to decide how they want to proceed.

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Kay King

9 years ago

You have a responsibility to take due care for your clients and ensure they are happy.

Can I ask what made you come to this (in my opinion) inaccurate and unfair remark that the client is flakey? Which implies this is some how their own fault?

Your responsibility is to do the work you were hired to do and ensure the clients are happy with that work. It is not to give legal advice when you are not an attorney or make promises to clients you may not be able to keep.

I thought the clients were flakey, too - because they were allowing you to advise them on business matters they should take care of themselves.

It is the client's fault if they did not have a clear contract with the previous provider. Such a contract would lay out terms of ending the contractual agreement - such as payments due. Do YOU have a contract with this client?

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Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog

***

Dear April: I don't want any trouble from you.

January was long, February was iffy, March was a freaking dumpster fire.

So sit down, be quiet, and don't touch anything.

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Alexandre Valois 9 years ago

Originally Posted by codecreative

The client is in fact a well established dental practice.

And yet they can't afford a lawyer?

You have already been told repeatedly this is something only a lawyer can address - or that your client will need to cave in, pay the 1000$ and move on, hopefully learning their lesson.

You claim that you`ve called the domain registrar and was told exactly the same thing. Still, you keep coming here repeating the same thing and complaining about the system.

At what point do you get a clue?

Holy moly.
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JC Web

9 years ago

Codecreative, the bottom line is your client made a huge mistake allowing the developer to be in control of the domain. No one should ever do that and there is no need for a dev to have the domain in their account to do website work or SEO.

They should have registered the domain themselves. If they are technophobes and felt incapable of doing that themselves, then they should have had a legal agreement in place that the dev would immediately transfer the domain to them after registering it and changing the nameservers and that no further payment would be given until this was done.

You simply never allow your domain to be in anyone else's account but your own. Now i understand people who are new to this can be taken advantage of by unethical people, and that's a shame. But like in any area of business, you have to do your due diligence and learn at least the basics when you are making a decision to trust someone. This is a very basic thing - you always register and control your own domain unless you are okay with losing it.

While I understand nobody likes losing money and especially don't like losing it to or because of unscrupulous people, a well-established dental practice would not even notice this amount of money honestly. If the issue is that they don't want the dev to profit from it, then as we have repeated many times, get a lawyer. A dental practice absolutely already has a lawyer. If they need one that specializes in this area, they can easily afford that as well.

Your client made a mistake. Someone took advantage of that. Now your client has to deal with their mistake. Tell them to get a lawyer and never to relinquish control of their domain again.

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Transfer of Domain name from rogue developer

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