Website Flipping Basics

97 replies
I've been interested in getting into website flipping. I just have a few questions that I was hoping some of you might answer for me.

*Do the sites for sale need to be ranked well?

*Do the sites for sale need to be getting good traffic? If so, what constitutes good traffic?

*Do the sites for sale need backlinks? Are they worth more with backlinks?

*Would I be able to sell a 10-page Wordpress niche site with unique content easily? How much time would it take (roughly, on average etc.)

*How much would the above type of site be worth (assuming 10-20 uniques a day or so)?

*Would you use Sitepoint or something else?

*Have any of you made a profitable business model out of flipping? If so, would you be kind enough to share an intro/tips?
#basics #flipping #website
  • Profile picture of the author steve m
    Hi loybond,

    You can flip all sorts of sites mate. They can be established sites that are already ranked, that have already got traffic flowing to them. That also have revinue.

    Or you can sell a start up site that has no traffic and is not ranked. A nice product site.

    These days it seems to be harder to flip blogs with 10 unique articles on them (aprently they used to sell alot easier),, I always outsource everything when I sell sites, the profit margins are way smaller but I only work part time online so time is a little hard to come buy sometimes.

    Good luck though mate

    Steve M
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    • Profile picture of the author Craig McPherson
      Hey Loybond,

      Head over to Michelle Adam's blog. She is a member here. She has a great download called
      Quick Cash, all about building and flipping sites.


      Online Money

      It really is a good resource.

      Cheers mate

      Craig
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      • Profile picture of the author Mike Linley
        You'll have a really hard time selling or getting any good money for a 10 page wordpress site these days because they are a dime a dozen and everyone is lowering their prices to compete with each other...your best bet is to build up some traffic and some rankings and maybe even get some revenue because that is what a lot of these website flippers cannot do is drive traffic and get rankings or revenue...so if you can do that for atleast a month or a few months then you can make some decent returns...good luck! -Mike Linley
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        • Profile picture of the author Marhelper
          Originally Posted by mikelinley View Post

          You'll have a really hard time selling or getting any good money for a 10 page wordpress site these days because they are a dime a dozen and everyone is lowering their prices to compete with each other...your best bet is to build up some traffic and some rankings and maybe even get some revenue because that is what a lot of these website flippers cannot do is drive traffic and get rankings or revenue...so if you can do that for atleast a month or a few months then you can make some decent returns...good luck! -Mike Linley
          I have flipped many sites and that has been my experience as well.
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      • Profile picture of the author Lisa Gergets
        Originally Posted by Craig McPherson View Post

        Hey Loybond,

        Head over to Michelle Adam's blog. She is a member here. She has a great download called
        Quick Cash, all about building and flipping sites.


        Online Money

        It really is a good resource.

        Cheers mate

        Craig
        Ah, you beat me to it, Craig! I definitely second Michelle Adams' blog and downloads. She's the real deal.
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      • Profile picture of the author SMP
        Originally Posted by Craig McPherson View Post

        Hey Loybond,

        Head over to Michelle Adam's blog. She is a member here. She has a great download called
        Quick Cash, all about building and flipping sites.


        Thanks for posting this link Craig. I want to start flipping sites, Squidoo lenses, etc and this is the perfect resource.

        All the best.

        Steve.
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        • Profile picture of the author loybond
          Guys, moving a Wordpress site over is the shiznits. Its super easy. Backup your database, upload it to your new hosting, just copy your entire WP installation over (FTP), update the database and username in the wp-config file, and that's it!

          I'm planning to try and put up two good sites a day. My first sale was a breeze, let's see how the rest go. I hope people can appreciate the difference I'm bringing - which is properly researched niches that are easy to rank in, combined with decent looks, unique content, and an ebook I wrote myself about how to promote the site and get it to page 1.

          Advice to fellow startup flippers > Whenever I didn't know something, I'd Google it, and thankfully, when it comes to Wordpress, design, logos etc. there are a million tutorials for whatever you'd like to do. I can now make nice-looking web 2.0-ish logos in under 2 minutes. Even for the specific theme I'm using, there's a lot of discussion, so just have a look at what is on offer at Flippa, and try to come up with some sort of value proposition for buyers. You can focus on design, traffic or earnings, or all three. I went with sites that look pretty decent, and are already ranked and earning small amounts with Adsense. And people here are wicked helpful so you can just PM them.

          sbucciarel, as you know, I think you're the bomb. Perhaps when you get a chance, you can tell me what tools you use to make those affiliate sales pages, because I've never made them before. I'm guessing they don't run on WP. I'm sure everyone here would appreciate that too, since from what I've seen, you're the silent guru (guruette?) of flipping.
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          • Profile picture of the author loybond
            Jesse, there's no harm in using free themes, but make sure they "look" premium. Everyone and their neighbour use the Revolution themes, some of which are/were free.

            And you gotta customize them so they look unique. IMO, logos really make/break the look, and a ton of people suck at making logos. Google web 2.0 logos photoshop and follow the instructions and that alone will give your blog some uniqueness.
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            • Profile picture of the author midasman09
              Banned
              Why piddle around with;
              1) getting a domain
              2) setting up a site
              3) getting traffic to the site
              4) trying to sell the site

              ...for a few hundred bucks!

              Why not appeal to the EGO and get $1500 and more?

              Right NOW, Aug 13, 09 at 4:15 Pacific Time... "DenversBestChiropractor.com" is available!
              so is..."RenosBestChiropractor.com"...etc

              Reason I pick "Chiropractors" is because they WANT to, and can AFFORD to, spend money on "promotion of their practice"!

              If YOU were a "Chiropractor" or "Dentist" or "Roofer" or "Plumber"...etc, wouldn't YOU like to have a sign on your truck or your door that says, "...Best.com"?

              Of course you would. It's just a matter of;
              1) Get the "Best" domain
              2) Set up a Sample 1 or 2 page site
              3) Call prospects and tell them you've created a site for them that will bring them more business...and send them to your Sample Site. Also mention you are calling OTHER competing businesses and the FIRST ONE who wants the site AND "Ego" domain...gets it!

              EGO and competition brings in the big bucks...fast.

              Midas Man
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              • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                Banned
                Originally Posted by midasman09 View Post

                Why piddle around with;
                1) getting a domain
                2) setting up a site
                3) getting traffic to the site
                4) trying to sell the site

                ...for a few hundred bucks!

                Why not appeal to the EGO and get $1500 and more?

                Right NOW, Aug 13, 09 at 4:15 Pacific Time... "DenversBestChiropractor.com" is available!
                so is..."RenosBestChiropractor.com"...etc

                Reason I pick "Chiropractors" is because they WANT to, and can AFFORD to, spend money on "promotion of their practice"!

                If YOU were a "Chiropractor" or "Dentist" or "Roofer" or "Plumber"...etc, wouldn't YOU like to have a sign on your truck or your door that says, "...Best.com"?

                Of course you would. It's just a matter of;
                1) Get the "Best" domain
                2) Set up a Sample 1 or 2 page site
                3) Call prospects and tell them you've created a site for them that will bring them more business...and send them to your Sample Site. Also mention you are calling OTHER competing businesses and the FIRST ONE who wants the site AND "Ego" domain...gets it!

                EGO and competition brings in the big bucks...fast.

                Midas Man

                Ok ... so how many of these have you sold and for how much money?
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                • Profile picture of the author Vikuna2009+
                  Ok ... so how many of these have you sold and for how much money?



                  I am STRONGLY considering putting the above sentence on Google Alerts because I would REALLY like to know, lol

                  ...... I'm waiting......


                  In the offline forums "best" this and that is what they talk a lot about. BTW, is there a way to do some kind of a search to find out how many "best" domain addresses have been sold :confused:


                  P.S. Suzanne, do you ever use bido.com? (Hope I spelled your name right, lol).
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                  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by Vikuna2009+ View Post

                    Ok ... so how many of these have you sold and for how much money?



                    I am STRONGLY considering putting the above sentence on Google Alerts because I would REALLY like to know, lol

                    ...... I'm waiting......


                    In the offline forums "best" this and that is what they talk a lot about. BTW, is there a way to do some kind of a search to find out how many "best" domain addresses have been sold :confused:


                    P.S. Suzanne, do you ever use bido.com? (Hope I spelled your name right, lol).

                    Just checking out bido now. Looks very interesting. Thanks for that link.

                    As for the "best" domains ... I'm wondering if this approach just appeals to egos without really serving the end user very well. Most of my domains are strong keyword domains that get searches. How many searches are there for best chiropractor Dallas, etc.? If I were searching for a chiropractor, I doubt I would use "best" as the search term ... because they all think they're the best.

                    When it comes to selling these sites I sell, I really do want the end user to be successful with it. I don't offload junk sites just to get rid of them. Some people would probably gasp at the sites I just deleted from the server and the domains that went with them because they were not performing in any way. Some of the domains I've had for a couple of years. Adios ... I don't want them to become someone else's non-performing sites after getting money from them for the sites.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Vikuna2009+
                      You can subscribe by email to http://www.bido.com They have daily auctions. What gets me is that a domain name, not a website, with 3 letters,
                      likekzm.com, or the like (made up sample) sells for about two grand!!!

                      This 3 letter combos sells frequently for around 2-3k and I just can not figure it out, any thoughts?

                      What about domain 'tasters'? Got ripped off of a domain name last week because the place I used appearantly 'tastes' your domain name if you don't buy it right away. Was told that namesheap.com is a safe place to search for availability and they do not taste.
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                      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                        Banned
                        Originally Posted by Vikuna2009+ View Post

                        You can subscribe by email to http://www.bido.com They have daily auctions. What gets me is that a domain name, not a website, with 3 letters,
                        likekzm.com, or the like (made up sample) sells for about two grand!!!

                        This 3 letter combos sells frequently for around 2-3k and I just can not figure it out, any thoughts?

                        What about domain 'tasters'? Got ripped off of a domain name last week because the place I used appearantly 'tastes' your domain name if you don't buy it right away. Was told that namesheap.com is a safe place to search for availability and they do not taste.
                        3 letter domains are rare and cost a fortune to buy. They are what is considered a premium domain name. I see auctions all the time with "premium domain name" listed as a selling point and it's obvious these people have no clue as to what a premium domain name really is. sex.com, cars.com, book.com, couch.com ... single words are premium. Three letter domains are normally premium. mycreditreportonline.com is NOT a premium domain. Don't call your domain names premium if they aren't really premium. If they were premium you could sell the domain alone for many thousands.

                        There are domain tasters ... they usually buy the right to "taste" a lot of domains without actually purchasing them and then release the ones they don't want after a certain period of time.

                        What you're talking about is domain sniffing. It is said and probably true that some registrars employ domain sniffing ... that means that while you are selecting a domain, it can mysteriously become unavailable. The registrar has determined that they'd like to give that one a go and has snatched it right out from under you. I use Godaddy a lot and have never had that happen, but I've heard they use that. I've also heard that Namecheap is safe from domain sniffing.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Vikuna2009+
                          Well, they 'sniffed' my up my you know what, lol . If they just would have 'tasted' me, they might have given it back ...

                          As far as the 3 letter domains goes on bido, it's not a WORD but a letter combination like: kzm, jqr, xrt etc. Selling for 2-3k, go figure.

                          BTW Suzanne, what is your opinion about bido?
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                          • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                            Banned
                            Originally Posted by Vikuna2009+ View Post

                            Well, they 'sniffed' my up my you know what, lol . If they just would have 'tasted' me, they might have given it back ...

                            As far as the 3 letter domains goes on bido, it's not a WORD but a letter combination like: kzm, jqr, xrt etc. Selling for 2-3k, go figure.

                            BTW Suzanne, what is your opinion about bido?
                            With 3, 4 and often 5 letter domains, it doesn't need to be a word. They are in high demand and hard to get. Just try hand registering one. You'll see a lot of them being offered and bought at namepros.com. Look at ibm .... it means something to the company, so a company with a name like that will pay a fortune for the domain.

                            Bido looks good but I'm put off by the registration fee for reserve auctions. I have a couple hundred domains listed on Sedo and have purchased domains at namepros.com and I prefer those resources rather than paying upfront for a listing. I don't mind the commission that Sedo takes, once the domain is sold, but I wouldn't want to have to pay for every domain I have listed.
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                            • Profile picture of the author midasman09
                              Banned
                              We add an extra feature to our "Best" sites. A "PostCard" mailing to monthly New Movers to the area.

                              We tie in 5 or more sites for each area so cost is spread.

                              And...this lets us charge $149/mo to participants. And, because the domain is NOT specific to the biz that's "renting" it, if a participant wants to drop out, they can, and we replace them.

                              Some also link to their "regular" sites from the "Best" site they are renting.

                              Midas Man
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              • Profile picture of the author loybond
                Midas Man, are you really under the impression that cold calling local businesses is faster/easier than steps 1-4? Here's the time it takes for me...

                1) Keyword research > 5 min-1 hour (depending on how I fare)
                2) Getting a domain > 3 minutes and for $4, amazingly, this place updates nameservers within 5 minutes
                3) Install WP with Fantastico > 2 minutes
                4) Upload theme and get theme running > 1 minute
                5) customize theme > 30 minutes to 3 hours
                6) Write 10 unique articles > 2 hours, or PLR it > 15-30 minutes
                7) set up sale on Flippa > 5-10 minutes
                8) wait for it to sell, and work on other sites

                A "few hundred" is a pretty good profit for not that much work!


                Originally Posted by midasman09 View Post

                Why piddle around with;
                1) getting a domain
                2) setting up a site
                3) getting traffic to the site
                4) trying to sell the site

                ...for a few hundred bucks!

                Why not appeal to the EGO and get $1500 and more?

                Right NOW, Aug 13, 09 at 4:15 Pacific Time... "DenversBestChiropractor.com" is available!
                so is..."RenosBestChiropractor.com"...etc

                Reason I pick "Chiropractors" is because they WANT to, and can AFFORD to, spend money on "promotion of their practice"!

                If YOU were a "Chiropractor" or "Dentist" or "Roofer" or "Plumber"...etc, wouldn't YOU like to have a sign on your truck or your door that says, "...Best.com"?

                Of course you would. It's just a matter of;
                1) Get the "Best" domain
                2) Set up a Sample 1 or 2 page site
                3) Call prospects and tell them you've created a site for them that will bring them more business...and send them to your Sample Site. Also mention you are calling OTHER competing businesses and the FIRST ONE who wants the site AND "Ego" domain...gets it!

                EGO and competition brings in the big bucks...fast.

                Midas Man
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                • Profile picture of the author bluegold14
                  Originally Posted by loybond View Post

                  Midas Man, are you really under the impression that cold calling local businesses is faster/easier than steps 1-4? Here's the time it takes for me...

                  1) Keyword research > 5 min-1 hour (depending on how I fare)
                  2) Getting a domain > 3 minutes and for $4, amazingly, this place updates nameservers within 5 minutes
                  3) Install WP with Fantastico > 2 minutes
                  4) Upload theme and get theme running > 1 minute
                  5) customize theme > 30 minutes to 3 hours
                  6) Write 10 unique articles > 2 hours, or PLR it > 15-30 minutes
                  7) set up sale on Flippa > 5-10 minutes
                  8) wait for it to sell, and work on other sites

                  A "few hundred" is a pretty good profit for not that much work!
                  loybond, that's definitely appealing...why have I been wasting my time with affiliate marketing?!

                  Now, I've read stories about selling domains/websites and not getting paid. What payment processors do you use to prevent fraud and fraudsters?
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                  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                    Banned
                    Originally Posted by bluegold14 View Post

                    Now, I've read stories about selling domains/websites and not getting paid. What payment processors do you use to prevent fraud and fraudsters?
                    I use a DMCA notice. Anyone who steals a site from me, I issue the DMCA to their host. It's only happened once and only from my nichebloggingtreasure.com site rather than from an auction, but the DMCA worked very well ...

                    I use Paypal and Paypal does not support digital products. One guy paid me $400 for a site and then issued a dispute ... not as described. Of course it was exactly as described since he saw the site before he purchased. I immediately escalated the dispute to a claim and immediately the dispute and claim were closed by Paypal, saying that they do no support digital products. So I kept my money and he kept the site.

                    I've sold a site for $2,500 and another for about $1500 and the terms of the sale were that I hold the domains for 46 days. Buyers didn't have a problem with that and it probably kept dishonest buyers from even trying to buy the site and then file a dispute.
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                  • Profile picture of the author loybond
                    Originally Posted by bluegold14 View Post

                    loybond, that's definitely appealing...why have I been wasting my time with affiliate marketing?!

                    Now, I've read stories about selling domains/websites and not getting paid. What payment processors do you use to prevent fraud and fraudsters?
                    I've wasted my time with a lot of things that didn't pay, but I haven't done anything in affiliate yet, and according to people, it's the easiest to succeed with. Well, flipping's easier for sure. I think that you just have to offer something of value. With affiliate I've been told that you just need to pick a good product, make a good sales page, write about 20-30 convincing articles and then you should make a few sales now and then. Dunno, but I think I'll be trying that this week. I'll post my success.

                    I've heard those stories too. I haven't sold many sites yet, so I'm probably not the best person to ask. Suzanne knows a lot, so maybe she can help you out here. On her blog she has a post about this if I remember correctly (DMCA takedown notice).

                    I just had another $300 sale on Flippa, but the guy who bought is a newbie with no feedback. He hasn't emailed me or PMed me yet, so I am a little scared, so I haven't sent him his welcome package yet.
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                    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                      Banned
                      Originally Posted by loybond View Post

                      I just had another $300 sale on Flippa, but the guy who bought is a newbie with no feedback. He hasn't emailed me or PMed me yet, so I am a little scared, so I haven't sent him his welcome package yet.
                      Don't wait for him to pm you. Pm him with your paypal email address and congratulations on the purchase .. and say as soon as payment is received, we'll discuss the transfer of site and domain. That gets him started.

                      On all of my auctions that are still live, I use the paypal function that makes them pay before their bid is accepted if they use the BIN. BIN will go directly to paypal if you enter in your payment address. If they abandon the payment, the auction goes back live. The only time I have to contact them and ask for payment is when the auction goes to private after the live auction period ends. I set all of my auctions for 30 days. Why pay such a high Flippa fee only to have it end in 3 or 4 days? Gives good buyers a chance to find the auction also.
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                      • Profile picture of the author loybond
                        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                        Don't wait for him to pm you. Pm him with your paypal email address and congratulations on the purchase .. and say as soon as payment is received, we'll discuss the transfer of site and domain. That gets him started.

                        On all of my auctions that are still live, I use the paypal function that makes them pay before their bid is accepted if they use the BIN. BIN will go directly to paypal if you enter in your payment address. If they abandon the payment, the auction goes back live. The only time I have to contact them and ask for payment is when the auction goes to private after the live auction period ends. I set all of my auctions for 30 days. Why pay such a high Flippa fee only to have it end in 3 or 4 days? Gives good buyers a chance to find the auction also.
                        Yesterday, I sent him a PM asking him if he needs anything and if he's decided on a payment type. No reply yet. Should I go ahead and email him then with what you said?

                        I saw that paypal-BIN feature but didn't use it thinking I'd be giving them more options. I guess I'll use it from now on. Doesn't the listing drop further and further as days go on? I figured there isn't much point, so I set it at 7 days for my last auction.
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                        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
                          Banned
                          Originally Posted by loybond View Post

                          Yesterday, I sent him a PM asking him if he needs anything and if he's decided on a payment type. No reply yet. Should I go ahead and email him then with what you said?

                          I saw that paypal-BIN feature but didn't use it thinking I'd be giving them more options. I guess I'll use it from now on. Doesn't the listing drop further and further as days go on? I figured there isn't much point, so I set it at 7 days for my last auction.
                          Did this guy pay you?

                          Yes, the listing drops further, but there are people who put it in their watch list if they are interested plus filters to look for certain kinds of sites, etc. so it continues to get seen. Quite a few of my sites have sold on the last couple of days of a 30-day auction.
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                          • Profile picture of the author loybond
                            Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

                            Did this guy pay you?

                            Yes, the listing drops further, but there are people who put it in their watch list if they are interested plus filters to look for certain kinds of sites, etc. so it continues to get seen. Quite a few of my sites have sold on the last couple of days of a 30-day auction.
                            Yeah, he finally did. Took him 3 days or so, no correspondence the first day. I have a lot of people "watching" and not enough bidding high LOL! From the sites I've put up so far, it seems that informational sites sell fast at BIN, and product-based sites I had (which are actually better in terms of Adsense revenue) aren't so popular.

                            Right now my problem is finding niches buyers will like on a daily basis. Any advice for this? How do you choose your topics?
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    • Profile picture of the author loybond
      Hey Steve! Do you sell your sites when they have traffic already then? If sites don't have traffic, do they at least fetch $100?

      Originally Posted by steve m View Post

      Hi loybond,

      You can flip all sorts of sites mate. They can be established sites that are already ranked, that have already got traffic flowing to them. That also have revinue.

      Or you can sell a start up site that has no traffic and is not ranked. A nice product site.

      These days it seems to be harder to flip blogs with 10 unique articles on them (aprently they used to sell alot easier),, I always outsource everything when I sell sites, the profit margins are way smaller but I only work part time online so time is a little hard to come buy sometimes.

      Good luck though mate

      Steve M
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by loybond View Post

        Hey Steve! Do you sell your sites when they have traffic already then? If sites don't have traffic, do they at least fetch $100?
        I just sold one with no traffic for $800. Design is outstanding, it's a minisite/blog combo. Brand new, so no traffic or income. Blog has the standard 10 articles (unique).

        There's no real recipe, but you have to offer something of value. Traffic, backlinks and revenue all make a site more valuable, but sites without those will also sell if they have something unique to offer in design and/or content.
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        • Profile picture of the author loybond
          Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

          I just sold one with no traffic for $800. Design is outstanding, it's a minisite/blog combo. Brand new, so no traffic or income. Blog has the standard 10 articles (unique).

          There's no real recipe, but you have to offer something of value. Traffic, backlinks and revenue all make a site more valuable, but sites without those will also sell if they have something unique to offer in design and/or content.
          That sounds great! Do you flip as a business or was that a one-off thing? LOL I wanted a recipe, something I could "rinse and repeat," and I was thinking that a well-designed site with a custom logo, flashy graphics, PLR content, monetization and a keyword.com/org type of URL could fetch me $97, hopefully for 2 or more sites a day. I'm going to try and see if I can do it...
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  • Profile picture of the author Sheryl Polomka
    It really does depend on what type of site you want to flip, what selling price range you are aiming for and how much time you want to spend on the site.

    If you do create backlinks, drive traffic and have the site earning some revenue then you will get a much higher selling price for your site. A site like this I'd suggest selling on Flippa.

    If you didn't want to spend the time involved in doing all that you can create basic niche sites and sell them as soon as they are created. These wont sell for as high a price, but you can still do quite well with them, especially if you have some backend sales in hosting commissions.
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    • Profile picture of the author loybond
      Originally Posted by Craig McPherson View Post

      Hey Loybond,

      Head over to Michelle Adam's blog. She is a member here. She has a great download called
      Quick Cash, all about building and flipping sites.


      Online Money

      It really is a good resource.

      Cheers mate

      Craig
      Thanks Craig, I'm downloading that now!

      Originally Posted by mikelinley View Post

      You'll have a really hard time selling or getting any good money for a 10 page wordpress site these days because they are a dime a dozen and everyone is lowering their prices to compete with each other...your best bet is to build up some traffic and some rankings and maybe even get some revenue because that is what a lot of these website flippers cannot do is drive traffic and get rankings or revenue...so if you can do that for atleast a month or a few months then you can make some decent returns...good luck! -Mike Linley
      Well, if I can sell for $100 or so, that seems like a decent enough profit that can be multiplied. How much are those 10 page sites worth would you say? If I build up traffic/rankings, it really changes the amount of time and effort that goes in... not sure if it's worth it - what do you think?

      Originally Posted by TinkerAndPo View Post

      Ah, you beat me to it, Craig! I definitely second Michelle Adams' blog and downloads. She's the real deal.
      Thanks I'm going to be checking that out as soon as I'm done replying.

      Originally Posted by Sheryl Polomka View Post

      It really does depend on what type of site you want to flip, what selling price range you are aiming for and how much time you want to spend on the site.

      If you do create backlinks, drive traffic and have the site earning some revenue then you will get a much higher selling price for your site. A site like this I'd suggest selling on Flippa.

      If you didn't want to spend the time involved in doing all that you can create basic niche sites and sell them as soon as they are created. These wont sell for as high a price, but you can still do quite well with them, especially if you have some backend sales in hosting commissions.
      I was thinking a quick creation process, $50 in costs, selling for $100... wonder if that is doable. I'm going to check out Flippa, haven't heard of that. The niche sites idea you mention is exactly what I want to do. I make a lot of niche sites for Adsense for myself, so putting them up real fast is easy for me. Do you know what price range these kinds of sites sell in?
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      • Profile picture of the author Sheryl Polomka
        Originally Posted by loybond View Post

        I was thinking a quick creation process, $50 in costs, selling for $100... wonder if that is doable. I'm going to check out Flippa, haven't heard of that. The niche sites idea you mention is exactly what I want to do. I make a lot of niche sites for Adsense for myself, so putting them up real fast is easy for me. Do you know what price range these kinds of sites sell in?
        The sites I create usually cost me about $25 to $30 in costs including Ebay listings (I sell mine on Ebay). They sell for anywhere between $27 and $500 depending on the niche and who is looking to buy at the time.

        I don't mind if they sell for just $27 as 90% of the time I get a $100 commission on the hosting referral so even if the site sells low, the majority of the time I get the hosting commission.
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        • Profile picture of the author loybond
          Originally Posted by Sheryl Polomka View Post

          The sites I create usually cost me about $25 to $30 in costs including Ebay listings (I sell mine on Ebay). They sell for anywhere between $27 and $500 depending on the niche and who is looking to buy at the time.

          I don't mind if they sell for just $27 as 90% of the time I get a $100 commission on the hosting referral so even if the site sells low, the majority of the time I get the hosting commission.
          I've seen a lot of people mention that they do the commission thing. May I ask which provider you use? And so, in essence, what you're selling is the domain + contents of site, never including hosting? Do all of you do that? I'd really like to hear back from you guys on this.
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          • Profile picture of the author Sheryl Polomka
            Originally Posted by loybond View Post

            I've seen a lot of people mention that they do the commission thing. May I ask which provider you use? And so, in essence, what you're selling is the domain + contents of site, never including hosting? Do all of you do that? I'd really like to hear back from you guys on this.
            That's right I sell the website but not the hosting. I did offer hosting at one stage and I did quite well with that too and it is an ongoing residual income if you do that. However, I set up the hosting subscriptions through Paypal and then had Paypal close my account (over a completely separate issue) and when that happened I lost all my subscriptions.

            So then I decided to do the referral to a Hosting plan instead of hosting them myself. I use Hostgator and if you refer to Hostgator using Commission Junction it is a $100 commission.

            Your sites probably offer something above and beyond the others in the price range in order to sell; could you please share what that might be?
            I'm not sure what my sites offer above and beyond the others. I sell on Ebay and I know some sellers on Ebay offer terrible sites that just look awful. I just try to offer nice looking sites and I seem to do ok with that. Easy Yoga Basics this is one I just sold yesterday for $97 at my BIN price, that might give you an idea on the type of site I offer.
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            • Profile picture of the author E. Fire
              Originally Posted by Sheryl Polomka View Post

              I'm not sure what my sites offer above and beyond the others. I sell on Ebay and I know some sellers on Ebay offer terrible sites that just look awful. I just try to offer nice looking sites and I seem to do ok with that. Easy Yoga Basics this is one I just sold yesterday for $97 at my BIN price, that might give you an idea on the type of site I offer.

              When you sell sites on Ebay, does PayPal hold payment until the user leaves feedback? On "hard goods" - items that have to be shipped - PayPal holds payment for Ebay items until they are verified delivered or the user leaves feedback.

              I'm somewhat established on Ebay so I am thinking about giving Ebay a try instead of listing more sites on Flippa. I joined Flippa last month and listed two sites there that didn't sell. So I built some new sites that are much better - with all unique content - but with the new trust system put in place last week, the most I can get is a +3 until I can get at least 4 pieces of feedback. It has me wondering as to whether it's possible for new sellers to have much success there anymore and I can't keep shelling out listing fees to find out.

              Thanks.
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        • Profile picture of the author babushka99
          Banned
          Originally Posted by Sheryl Polomka View Post

          I don't mind if they sell for just $27 as 90% of the time I get a $100 commission on the hosting referral so even if the site sells low, the majority of the time I get the hosting commission.

          Sheryl - can you elaborate no this a bit, doesn't the buyer usually transfer the site over to their own hosting company?

          If not, how do you convince the buyer to take hosting from your recommended (affiliate)?
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          • Profile picture of the author Sheryl Polomka
            Originally Posted by babushka99 View Post

            Sheryl - can you elaborate no this a bit, doesn't the buyer usually transfer the site over to their own hosting company?

            If not, how do you convince the buyer to take hosting from your recommended (affiliate)?
            Most of my buyers are new and many of them don't have hosting yet. Some of them do and that is where the 10% come in that I don't get the hosting commission for.

            I send my customers to an instruction page after the sale and on this page I have the hosting details. If a customer chooses to host the site elsewhere then they can either transfer the site themselves to their own host, or if they want us to transfer it for them to their own host then we charge a $30 transfer fee.

            So basically my instructions state that if they sign up to hosting through the link on that page then the site is transferred free of charge. If they sign up through any other link or want us to transfer to another host then there is a $30 fee.

            Either way I usually make a $100 commission or a $30 payment for the transfer.

            I state in my Ebay listing that there is a $30 fee for transferring the site to another host, so it isn't a 'surprise' fee thrown at them after the sale, I make sure that all costs are known up front.

            It is very rare that I have a customer transfer the site themselves, I think I've had maybe 3 customers that have done that, most will get me to do the transfer for them.
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  • Profile picture of the author George Wright
    Hi,

    If you are talking about selling low in the $100 or less range then consider the URL your most important asset and selling feature.

    If you create a site around a product and it has a "killer" domain name that relates to the product it's an easy sell.

    .com is always best if you are selling to the IM market, however other dots work well for the non IM savvy crowd.

    George Wright
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    "The first chapter sells the book; the last chapter sells the next book." Mickey Spillane
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  • Profile picture of the author cashcow
    Don't forget to factor customer support into your profit margin - your time is worth something, right?

    Most of the people that you will be targeting with brand new niche sites are totally new at internet marketing - some of them won't even know how to use wordpress or even how to get a hosting account (or even understand that they need one). So, you might spend a great deal of time supporting them to get them up and running with their site and answering questions.

    You might consider making some videos or having an ebook that shows them a bit about how to use the site, how to add affiliate ids and adsense etc.. This will cut down on the time you spend answering questions.

    Lee
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    • Profile picture of the author loybond
      Those are some great ideas (the videos), but what percentage of buyers will be that noobish?

      Originally Posted by cashcow View Post

      Don't forget to factor customer support into your profit margin - your time is worth something, right?

      Most of the people that you will be targeting with brand new niche sites are totally new at internet marketing - some of them won't even know how to use wordpress or even how to get a hosting account (or even understand that they need one). So, you might spend a great deal of time supporting them to get them up and running with their site and answering questions.

      You might consider making some videos or having an ebook that shows them a bit about how to use the site, how to add affiliate ids and adsense etc.. This will cut down on the time you spend answering questions.

      Lee
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  • Profile picture of the author loybond
    Read Michelle Adams' book, pretty basic stuff, but good nonetheless. I can churn out 4-6 sites a day, but does anyone know how long it usually takes to sell basic, new blogs?

    Also, are these prices still accurate? $97 is a good price for a basic blog?
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    • Profile picture of the author Michelle Adams
      Originally Posted by loybond View Post

      Read Michelle Adams' book, pretty basic stuff, but good nonetheless.
      You're right loybond, it's a basic report designed for newbies and those who need cash quickly. Glad you thought it was good.

      I can churn out 4-6 sites a day, but does anyone know how long it usually takes to sell basic, new blogs?
      At Flippa you can sell a site in minutes or months, it really does depend on what niche, what type of site, your reputation etc.

      Also, are these prices still accurate? $97 is a good price for a basic blog?
      For a basic blog that is what I suggest reserve would be otherwise you could end up working for less than award wages. Like the others have mentioned above, the after sales support can be a time sucker.

      My suggestion is to get a few basic sites sold to get a feel for it and quickly move away from the low end but that's not to say there isn't money there but you can earn more for your time investment once you get just a little bit of experience under your belt. Also the costs are quite steep as a percentage of the final bid price when selling low.

      That being said, Flippa isn't the only place to sell sites and if you're organised and build a list right from the get go a lot of your sites won't need to be listed as your subscribers will often grab them first...and or you'll receive orders for sites directly which cuts out the listing costs.

      *Do the sites for sale need to be ranked well?
      Not necessarily. If you're selling a ClickBank ready site it's not as important as if you were selling a niche blog for example. It's easy to assume buyers will use the site in a traditional way but that's not always the case, some will just want the theme, others the graphics and others might just want the content. Ranking generally though would be a plus in my eyes.

      *Do the sites for sale need to be getting good traffic? If so, what constitutes good traffic?

      *Do the sites for sale need backlinks? Are they worth more with backlinks?
      A site with backlinks and or receiving traffic is valuable...the more the better. There are many sites sold that have zero traffic and backlinks though.

      *Would I be able to sell a 10-page Wordpress niche site with unique content easily? How much time would it take (roughly, on average etc.)
      Assuming you mean a new site ...'easily?', you never can tell but the more you pack into it and the better quality you offer the more likely it is you'll sell it. Never any guarantees though, it just isn't an exact science unfortunately. Time wise, I can build a basic blog in only a few hours. Creating unique content is the biggest time investment which I usually outsource but it depends on whether you can afford to invest in that and wear the costs if it doesn't sell..if not then writing your own content preserves profit and lowers your risk of course.

      *How much would the above type of site be worth (assuming 10-20 uniques a day or so)?
      Again there really are no hard and fast rules although 10 - 20 uniques wouldn't inspire me to pay too much more than if it had zero traffic...but again, it depends on so many factors. sbucciarel not only sells but buys too so her perspective on what interests buyers is definitely worth taking note of.

      *Would you use Sitepoint or something else?
      SitePoint/Flippa is my preference if a site goes to auction. You can list here at the WF and various other places too though. Private IM forums are another place to advertise sites if you're involved in any and the rules allow it.

      *Have any of you made a profitable business model out of flipping? If so, would you be kind enough to share an intro/tips?
      Selling sites is very profitable but it really does involve 'work'.

      That's just a few thoughts on the basics.

      Feel free to contact me if you have more questions.

      Cheers

      Thanks for the props Craig and Lisa, much appreciated.
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      • Profile picture of the author loybond
        Originally Posted by Michelle Adams View Post

        You're right loybond, it's a basic report designed for newbies and those who need cash quickly. Glad you thought it was good.

        At Flippa you can sell a site in minutes or months, it really does depend on what niche, what type of site, your reputation etc.

        For a basic blog that is what I suggest reserve would be otherwise you could end up working for less than award wages. Like the others have mentioned above, the after sales support can be a time sucker.

        My suggestion is to get a few basic sites sold to get a feel for it and quickly move away from the low end but that's not to say there isn't money there but you can earn more for your time investment once you get just a little bit of experience under your belt. Also the costs are quite steep as a percentage of the final bid price when selling low.

        That being said, Flippa isn't the only place to sell sites and if you're organised and build a list right from the get go a lot of your sites won't need to be listed as your subscribers will often grab them first...and or you'll receive orders for sites directly which cuts out the listing costs.

        Not necessarily. If you're selling a ClickBank ready site it's not as important as if you were selling a niche blog for example. It's easy to assume buyers will use the site in a traditional way but that's not always the case, some will just want the theme, others the graphics and others might just want the content. Ranking generally though would be a plus in my eyes.

        A site with backlinks and or receiving traffic is valuable...the more the better. There are many sites sold that have zero traffic and backlinks though.

        Assuming you mean a new site ...'easily?', you never can tell but the more you pack into it and the better quality you offer the more likely it is you'll sell it. Never any guarantees though, it just isn't an exact science unfortunately. Time wise, I can build a basic blog in only a few hours. Creating unique content is the biggest time investment which I usually outsource but it depends on whether you can afford to invest in that and wear the costs if it doesn't sell..if not then writing your own content preserves profit and lowers your risk of course.

        Again there really are no hard and fast rules although 10 - 20 uniques wouldn't inspire me to pay too much more than if it had zero traffic...but again, it depends on so many factors. sbucciarel not only sells but buys too so her perspective on what interests buyers is definitely worth taking note of.

        SitePoint/Flippa is my preference if a site goes to auction. You can list here at the WF and various other places too though. Private IM forums are another place to advertise sites if you're involved in any and the rules allow it.

        Selling sites is very profitable but it really does involve 'work'.

        That's just a few thoughts on the basics.

        Feel free to contact me if you have more questions.

        Cheers

        Thanks for the props Craig and Lisa, much appreciated.
        Hey Lisa, nice to see you here! Great reply, love how you systematically answered my Q's. See I don't mind working hard, I just want it to pay off. So far, I haven't got the desired return with Adsense niche sites - I write practically all day long (for content and article marketing). So I want to focus some of that time on other possibilities, and it seems that flipping is alright for the short-term.
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  • Profile picture of the author George Wright
    Hate to beat a dead horse but If you concentrate on the name it alone will sell for $97. The "site" is just gravy.

    If you are asking have I done it. I have and intend to pursue it when I'm feeling better.

    George Wright
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    "The first chapter sells the book; the last chapter sells the next book." Mickey Spillane
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    • Profile picture of the author loybond
      Originally Posted by George Wright View Post

      Hate to beat a dead horse but If you concentrate on the name it alone will sell for $97. The "site" is just gravy.

      If you are asking have I done it. I have and intend to pursue it when I'm feeling better.

      George Wright
      No I get your point George, and I thank you for your reply. I'm planning on selling keyword.coms without extra words for sites that are probably product-centric or maybe informational. I see what you're saying. I just want to see if its possible to sell 1-4 sites a day. Looking on Flippa, only 15 sites were sold today, so I dunno bout that...
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    I don't buy or create 2 or more a day. I concentrate on the really outstanding and flip it for a higher price. Just pm'd you two examples. The second one won't go for under $1,200 and it is fresh off the press with no traffic or revenue, but it does have a unique, never seen before ebook. I think if you turn out 2 or more a day for $97, a lot of them won't sell .... they're already a dime a dozen. I've seen very few that had domain names that were worth $97, much less the blog and content.
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    • Profile picture of the author loybond
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      I don't buy or create 2 or more a day. I concentrate on the really outstanding and flip it for a higher price. Just pm'd you two examples. The second one won't go for under $1,200 and it is fresh off the press with no traffic or revenue, but it does have a unique, never seen before ebook. I think if you turn out 2 or more a day for $97, a lot of them won't sell .... they're already a dime a dozen. I've seen very few that had domain names that were worth $97, much less the blog and content.
      So the first pair of sites; they're not earning a dime at the moment, but they sold for $800? May I ask how long it took?

      My idea was to use nice graphics, kind of like how you do (since I'm pretty good with Photoshop and logos) in niches that could potentially be monetized well, and sell them for about a hundred bucks. I'm not sure if that offers enough value for the buyer... what do you think?

      Do you find that the genre/type of site you've chosen for the first site you PMed me is a better bet than niche product/info sites?

      Is Flippa really that great? 15 sites sold in a day sounds like a seriously small-time operation to me.
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      • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
        Banned
        Originally Posted by loybond View Post

        So the first pair of sites; they're not earning a dime at the moment, but they sold for $800? May I ask how long it took?

        My idea was to use nice graphics, kind of like how you do (since I'm pretty good with Photoshop and logos) in niches that could potentially be monetized well, and sell them for about a hundred bucks. I'm not sure if that offers enough value for the buyer... what do you think?

        Do you find that the genre/type of site you've chosen for the first site you PMed me is a better bet than niche product/info sites?

        Is Flippa really that great? 15 sites sold in a day sounds like a seriously small-time operation to me.
        For awhile, **** sites were really hot until the FTC started cracking down on forced continuity programs. iPhone crack sites sell very well, so product sites do sell well. The niche sites also sell very well, and that's more or less my speciality, although I am a flipper so when I find a site to buy that I think is a great price and a great value, I buy it and flip it for a profit, whether it is product or niche related.

        I think it's important that whatever you do, stand out from the crowd. I see so many of the same templates being used and really cheesy sites being offered ... even see people buying a MMR site for a couple of bucks and trying to pass it off as something unique just because they threw it up on a domain. Unfortunately, Flippa is the place where my sites sell the best. I'd love to see some more competition, but I also list in the Warrior Forum and I have purchased two sites now from the Warrior Forum.

        I have purchased sites with PR 3 or 4 that were real dogs to look at ... put a nice theme on them, did up a logo and sold them for $500. Nice profit. Presentation and standing out from the crowd goes a long way.
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  • Profile picture of the author rbabi18
    Would you not make more money marketing a product, taking 6 or 7 weeks to build that to a page 1 ranking on a average keyword and just sit on the conversions?
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    • Profile picture of the author loybond
      Originally Posted by rbabi18 View Post

      Would you not make more money marketing a product, taking 6 or 7 weeks to build that to a page 1 ranking on a average keyword and just sit on the conversions?
      I've only dabbled in Adsense niche sites, not affiliate marketing yet. I've been trying to decide whether to focus my efforts on flipping or AM. The only problem I have with AF is no experience with "presell" copywriting etc. I gather from your reply that AM seems like a better bet in your opinion?
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  • Profile picture of the author cashcow
    Those are some great ideas (the videos), but what percentage of buyers will be that noobish?
    I sell brand new blogs in the under $200 range so about 90% of my buyers are totally green. For most of them it is their first site.

    I think if you sold higher end sites or ones that were making money you would probably get buyers that knew the ropes, and, thus less time on support would be needed. I'm not sure though, maybe someone else will weigh in on this - perhaps all the noobies just buy my sites!

    Lee
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by cashcow View Post

      I sell brand new blogs in the under $200 range so about 90% of my buyers are totally green. For most of them it is their first site.

      I think if you sold higher end sites or ones that were making money you would probably get buyers that knew the ropes, and, thus less time on support would be needed. I'm not sure though, maybe someone else will weigh in on this - perhaps all the noobies just buy my sites!

      Lee
      Trust me ... the noobs buy high end sites also. People buy blogs from me who have never made a single post to a blog in their life and believe me, it's a challenge supporting them.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    If you're asking me, I don't care for affiliate marketing that much. I market my own products, and often flip sites that generate revenue for much more than they cost me due to the revenue they receive.
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    • Profile picture of the author loybond
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      If you're asking me, I don't care for affiliate marketing that much. I market my own products, and often flip sites that generate revenue for much more than they cost me due to the revenue they receive.
      Same here, even though I haven't really gotten into affiliate marketing, it's just not that interesting to me. Site creation is a lot more appealing to me and doesn't feel like hard or frustrating. Hopefully flipping/selling won't be too frustrating as I dive into it.
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  • Profile picture of the author cashcow
    Trust me ... the noobs buy high end sites also. People buy blogs from me who have never made a single post to a blog in their life and believe me, it's a challenge supporting them.
    I hear ya. I actually had a buyer who for the last two weeks has taken up so much of my time that I am actually losing money on the sale because I could have made like 3 more blogs in the time I have taken to support her!
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    • Profile picture of the author loybond
      Originally Posted by cashcow View Post

      I hear ya. I actually had a buyer who for the last two weeks has taken up so much of my time that I am actually losing money on the sale because I could have made like 3 more blogs in the time I have taken to support her!
      If you don't mind me asking, how many of those blogs do you sell in a week/month?

      Also, how do you offer value? Design? Original content or PLR?
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  • Profile picture of the author wealthydon
    You can flip any website that
    will add value to a potential buyer.
    That is the site is already making you
    money or generating targeted
    "free" traffic.

    And that is the only way to remain
    in business of selling websites.
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    • Profile picture of the author Sheryl Polomka
      Originally Posted by wealthydon View Post

      You can flip any website that
      will add value to a potential buyer.
      That is the site is already making you
      money or generating targeted
      "free" traffic.

      And that is the only way to remain
      in business of selling websites.
      I don't agree that having a site making money or generating traffic is the only way to remain in the business of selling websites. I sell websites every day that are brand new, no income, no traffic and I do very well with it.

      It might be how you have had your success, but it's not the only way.
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      • Profile picture of the author loybond
        Originally Posted by Marhelper View Post

        I have flipped many sites and that has been my experience as well.
        Do you do anything above and beyond the basics? Like the sites you've sold at that price point, are they basically wordpress + plr content + modified revolution church theme, or is there something else you offer as well?

        Originally Posted by Sheryl Polomka View Post

        I don't agree that having a site making money or generating traffic is the only way to remain in the business of selling websites. I sell websites every day that are brand new, no income, no traffic and I do very well with it.

        It might be how you have had your success, but it's not the only way.
        Your sites probably offer something above and beyond the others in the price range in order to sell; could you please share what that might be?
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  • Profile picture of the author cashcow
    If you don't mind me asking, how many of those blogs do you sell in a week/month?
    I usually sell about 5 a week. I think the value in mine is the design and all the affiliate products and articles I add to it. IMHO, the design is the key - people want something that looks nice. It can take me 3 to 5 hours to make just 1 site since I do all the graphics work myself.

    Selling new sites is a great way to get money when you need it, but when it comes down to it, it's really just a job.

    Of course, it's better than a lot of jobs and you get to be your own boss, but at the end of the day, if you want to make more money, you need to make another site. Unless you get into driving traffic to the sites and getting them earning, I don't think you're going to get into the "big bucks".

    I personally would prefer to keep all my sites and get them earning passive income, but I have to sell some off in order to pay the bills and to avoid getting a "real" job!
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    • Profile picture of the author loybond
      From the outset I thought design was part of the equation, but looking at your sites and their success, I see that it's a very important part of the appeal. I was sort of aiming for the same time frame to design a better looking website. Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge!

      Yeah, it's kinda just like a job, but at some level, everything is. Still better than pretty much any job where you work for someone else. I have a few other things (offline) that I really want to get into, but for now, I want to gather some capital with internet-based stuff.

      Originally Posted by cashcow View Post

      I usually sell about 5 a week. I think the value in mine is the design and all the affiliate products and articles I add to it. IMHO, the design is the key - people want something that looks nice. It can take me 3 to 5 hours to make just 1 site since I do all the graphics work myself.

      Selling new sites is a great way to get money when you need it, but when it comes down to it, it's really just a job.

      Of course, it's better than a lot of jobs and you get to be your own boss, but at the end of the day, if you want to make more money, you need to make another site. Unless you get into driving traffic to the sites and getting them earning, I don't think you're going to get into the "big bucks".

      I personally would prefer to keep all my sites and get them earning passive income, but I have to sell some off in order to pay the bills and to avoid getting a "real" job!
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Domains are also important to me. I don't buy junk domains. I try to get .com's and if available, I buy the whole set of one domain ... the .com, .net, .info and .org and give them all to the buyer to protect his/her domain from cybersquatters.

    I never just buy a cheap .info domain to sell a site. That and appearance or design are the two most important things to me for selling. Design isn't important when I'm buying because I'll buy a cheap site that looks like crap and redesign it and make a big profit.

    Again, traffic and revenue are great and definitely increase your profits, but not necessary to flip sites.

    As for hosting, I don't offer hosting with my sites, other than long enough to move it but I do make good commissions from referring my customers to hostgator. This is done naturally through our communications and getting the customer set up to receive the site.
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  • Profile picture of the author loybond
    I don't buy (or plan to sell) anything other than .com and .org domains.

    Do buyers consider included hosting a plus? It would probably make it a lot easier for me to not include it, since I already have an unlimited plan with Just Host, and if buyers are okay with a move/transfer, that means I don't have to spend on anything more than the domain - 4 bucks!

    sbucciarel, roughly what percentage of your buyers opt for the Hostgator hosting?

    cashcow, the articles you include in your sites - are they unique, PLR, or pulled from an article site etc.?
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by loybond View Post

      I don't buy (or plan to sell) anything other than .com and .org domains.

      Do buyers consider included hosting a plus? It would probably make it a lot easier for me to not include it, since I already have an unlimited plan with Just Host, and if buyers are okay with a move/transfer, that means I don't have to spend on anything more than the domain - 4 bucks!

      sbucciarel, roughly what percentage of your buyers opt for the Hostgator hosting?

      cashcow, the articles you include in your sites - are they unique, PLR, or pulled from an article site etc.?
      A small amount of my buyers, but enough that it is just icing on the cake. My main source of income is the flips. I don't want to host sites for people on my reseller acct. That's just there for the convenience of giving my customers their own cpanel logins to move sites and to receive sites that I buy when I'm too backed up to install it myself and they offer to install. I would have to say that the majority of my customers already have a host. The ones who don't, will normally buy from my link after I explain to them that, in spite of the commission I would receive if they use it, I consider Hostgator the superior hosting solution in terms of what they get and customer service. I never push it or try to sell it ... just recommend it when they need a host.

      It's a lot easier to sell a site that has 10 unique articles than 10 PLR articles, but I sell both. I have a developer's license for an autoblog plugin that is a benefit to those who want to use one. I include it. As for themes, if you watch the marketplace regularly, you will see the same theme being used over and over again. I have developer license for at least 6 Woo Themes, Zidalgo, Affiliate Theme, and a few more. Making an investment in a variety of premium themes to me is essential to stand apart from the crowd.

      As or domains ... don't rule out .net. It's actually the second most popular. If you can't find a perfect .com and can find a perfect .net, the .net is the best value to the customer ... and like I said, if I can find the whole "set", that's what I'll buy (the .com, .net, .info, and .org). When you buy a .com through Godaddy and hit the checkout now button, they will often offer you the .net, .org, and .info combined for $15. I buy that package and the domain is now even more valuable. The customer can set up satellite sites to drive traffic to the main site and of course, cybersquatters cannot try to capitalize on your domain by registering the .net, .org or .info.
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  • Profile picture of the author cashcow
    I don't include hosting. I used to offer hosting on my reseller account for $4.99 a month, but I really don't want to have to be responsible for the hosting of a bunch of other peoples sites. There usually isn't a problem, but one customer was buying some kind of traffic and eating up a crapload of bandwidth - who needs that? So now I just set them up at hostgator. I try to send them through my affiliate link, but I must not be that good at it because I don't seem to be getting many commissions!

    I used to do all unique content, but lately I've been using PLR. The unique content will sell for more money (all other things being equal, of course).

    Lee
    Signature
    Gone Fishing
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  • Profile picture of the author yommys01
    You can sell a new site but it is a lot harder than it used to be. I used to sell a day old blogs for as much as $199 but no one is willing to buy for $99 at the money.

    You best bet is to promote the site a little and try to make some money then sell it off.

    Doing some article marketing and using Angela or Paul's backlink WSO will help for traffic and revenue.
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  • Profile picture of the author eddywebs
    Thanks for the awesome post guys , Ive been hearing this a lot : "Michelle Adams blog and downloads" so where can I find it ?
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Just made another sale ... $350 this time so it's been a good week ($1150 for two sites). This was another Flippa sale. As for transferring the sites, rarely I get a customer who is savvy enough to move it themselves, but mostly I move it. I don't charge for that, since I don't sell any sites under $300 ... it's included. I prefer to do it myself since having a n00b do it and having to fix all the errors is more trouble than installing it to begin with.
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    • Profile picture of the author loybond
      I have an older site that I'd like to sell, can the experts offer their opinions on what I could price it at?

      It's a blog in the gay travel niche, PR3, more than 1000 backlinks, when I was actively promoting it, it got around 70 uniques a day. Haven't touched it for a long time, so traffic has dropped. It basically revolves around upcoming excursions etc, and has a calendar and forum. I've put on a very Adsense-friendly theme, which is not attractive at all, but regularly hooks me up with 15% CTRs even though the Adsense ads are not targeted (for some wacky reason).

      I also wanted to say that there is some great info in this thread... thanks to those who have contributed so much!
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Sounds like a good niche, good PR, good backlinks. Can you do screenshots for an auction of the Adsense income? Never claim income that you can't prove. They're just going to ask for it anyway. Probably would help if you also did some posting and backlinking to restart the traffic. I've sold quite a few sites with those ugly Adsense themes because they get clickthroughs and the Adsense junkies don't mind at all that the site is not gorgeous as long as people are clicking through. If you'd like to pm me the link, I'd be happy to take a look and take a guess at what I would sell it for, but just off the top of my head without knowing how much Adsense and with diminishing traffic, I would say you could list it on Flippa for $350 BIN at least.
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    • Profile picture of the author loybond
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      Sounds like a good niche, good PR, good backlinks. Can you do screenshots for an auction of the Adsense income? Never claim income that you can't prove. They're just going to ask for it anyway. Probably would help if you also did some posting and backlinking to restart the traffic. I've sold quite a few sites with those ugly Adsense themes because they get clickthroughs and the Adsense junkies don't mind at all that the site is not gorgeous as long as people are clicking through. If you'd like to pm me the link, I'd be happy to take a look and take a guess at what I would sell it for, but just off the top of my head without knowing how much Adsense and with diminishing traffic, I would say you could list it on Flippa for $350 BIN at least.
      It doesn't have all that much income these days, maybe $15-20 a month if that. However, with good CTR, it can scale well; the low Adsense income is only because of limited traffic. I'll pm you the link; thanks for taking the time!
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  • Profile picture of the author loybond
    Originally Posted by FifthDimension5 View Post

    In my opinion, design isnt that important, you could buy starter websites that have the potential to grow and earn, and redesign them and add content and build backlinks and flip them again.
    Why buy them when you can just create them from scratch for less?

    When you say "build backlinks," do you basically mean sell the website when it has more traffic?
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  • Profile picture of the author mattpaul2000
    Loybond

    I have just sent you a pm but if your still looking for ideas I have a free web flipping book.

    Best Regards

    Matt

    Originally Posted by loybond View Post

    I've been interested in getting into website flipping. I just have a few questions that I was hoping some of you might answer for me.

    *Do the sites for sale need to be ranked well?

    *Do the sites for sale need to be getting good traffic? If so, what constitutes good traffic?

    *Do the sites for sale need backlinks? Are they worth more with backlinks?

    *Would I be able to sell a 10-page Wordpress niche site with unique content easily? How much time would it take (roughly, on average etc.)

    *How much would the above type of site be worth (assuming 10-20 uniques a day or so)?

    *Would you use Sitepoint or something else?

    *Have any of you made a profitable business model out of flipping? If so, would you be kind enough to share an intro/tips?
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    • Profile picture of the author loybond
      mattpaul2000, I'm planning on putting up two sites today on Sitepoint to see how they fare. However, I like to read and learn as possible, so please do send that ebook my way!
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      • Profile picture of the author mattpaul2000
        I sent you pm earlier, I am sure the sites will do well on Sitepont. Have a look at Gene Piementel as well on Warrior who is the man for "Domain Flipping".

        I have followed his 10 point action plan out of interest and made over $200. Its recommended.

        Best regards

        Matt
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        • Profile picture of the author loybond
          Thanks to everyone, but especially sbucciarel, I was able to sell my first site in just a day, for $300!
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          • Profile picture of the author Bondddd
            Hi, can I pay off advertising on this page?
            grupy-dyskusyjne slask pl/zasady-panujace-na-grupach-dyskusyjnych/]Archiwum
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    I am so happy for you. Just a few tweaks and instant cash. I thought that site had a lot of potential. Now I know you can do it over and over again.
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  • Profile picture of the author kemdev
    Hey Warriors,

    I've looked through this thread and learned a lot thus far. I'm incredibly new
    to the site flipping scene - actually trying to help a friend get his hands on
    some quick money.

    I do have a few questions, though:

    1) How do you go about actually transferring the site? I'm not the most tech
    savvy guy, but I do know the basics of FTP and all that jazz. Can someone
    explain this a little better to me?

    2) Is it possible to sell, say, a WP blog using one of the free themes given by
    the WP site? Or do you typically have to create your own theme?

    3) Where are the best places to put your site auction in order to see the
    fastest response?

    I appreciate any and all answers you guys can give me. Thanks in advance!

    All the best,

    Jesse Kemmerer
    kemmerer.j@gmail.com
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    • Profile picture of the author Biggy Fat
      Originally Posted by Jesse Kemmerer View Post

      Hey Warriors,

      I've looked through this thread and learned a lot thus far. I'm incredibly new
      to the site flipping scene - actually trying to help a friend get his hands on
      some quick money.

      I do have a few questions, though:

      1) How do you go about actually transferring the site? I'm not the most tech
      savvy guy, but I do know the basics of FTP and all that jazz. Can someone
      explain this a little better to me?

      See this page: The Way I Transfer My WordPress Blog To Another Host

      2) Is it possible to sell, say, a WP blog using one of the free themes given by
      the WP site? Or do you typically have to create your own theme?

      You can easily sell using free themes. I did it. Just make sure you customize it so that it doesn't look the same as all the other stuff.

      3) Where are the best places to put your site auction in order to see the
      fastest response?

      ATM, the place to sell is at Flippa.com, though many people have complaints about them. Other places you can sell are at SiteDeal.org, eBay, and here at the Warrior Forum website selling section. STAY AWAY FROM DIGITAL POINT. It is the land of the scammers.

      I appreciate any and all answers you guys can give me. Thanks in advance!

      All the best,

      Jesse Kemmerer
      kemmerer.j@gmail.com
      Questions answered in bold man.
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Hey Warriors,

      I've looked through this thread and learned a lot thus far. I'm incredibly new
      to the site flipping scene - actually trying to help a friend get his hands on
      some quick money.

      I do have a few questions, though:

      1) How do you go about actually transferring the site? I'm not the most tech
      savvy guy, but I do know the basics of FTP and all that jazz. Can someone
      explain this a little better to me?

      I've got instructions for moving blogs at http://domainingdiva.com/installationinstructions.pdf. That's pretty much how I do it except skip the parts of replacing the url with a new url. These instructions also include how to move to a new domain, which you wouldn't be needing.

      2) Is it possible to sell, say, a WP blog using one of the free themes given by
      the WP site? Or do you typically have to create your own theme?

      Anybody can put up a blog with a free theme. Got to do better than that if you want to sell it.

      3) Where are the best places to put your site auction in order to see the
      fastest response?

      Sitedeal.org and Flippa.com are where I list mine.

      I appreciate any and all answers you guys can give me. Thanks in advance!

      All the best,

      Jesse Kemmerer
      kemmerer.j@gmail.com
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    Originally Posted by GLoke View Post

    Well from what I know the sites do not necessarily need to have traffic to sell.. traffic just adds to its value.. there are many other ways to add value.. like design, niche, backlinks, good SEO etc.

    Absolutely true ... you don't need traffic or sales. I sell startups all the time.

    As for the offline cold calling technique by Midas Man ... no thanks. I've purchased sites for $50 and immediately listed them on Flippa and sold them for $300. I can create a site in less than a day that will sell for that also. Or I can create a batch of sites and let some age and get traffic and sell them for double that. Or I can run a WSO and other advertising and make a few ebook sales and sell it for triple that or more. I make a good profit with the least amount of hassle and calling or mailing companies to me is a hassle.
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  • Profile picture of the author LMC
    One method that can be effective is sending them a certificate of purchase via the mail.

    Now you have sent something tangible with the digital good.

    We send mailing packages with anything over $5,000
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  • Profile picture of the author Stephen Chua
    I have a question. What do I do with those site that did not sell? Please advise. Thanks!
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by successh View Post

      I have a question. What do I do with those site that did not sell? Please advise. Thanks!
      It's difficult to tell without knowing what the site is. It may not be worth anything. Does it have an eye-catching appearance, a custom logo, or traffic, or sales ... something of value. Was it priced too high for this economy and for the true value of the site?
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  • Profile picture of the author RichPargeter
    Hey guys,

    I'm really enjoying following this thread but I'm a little confused about the site transfer process.

    If you sell a site to someone who doesn't have hosting do they register the 'bought' domain (i.e the one you've just sold them) when they buy the hosting or will they need to register using a different domain name first?

    Thanks,

    Rich
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    • Profile picture of the author loybond
      Originally Posted by RichPargeter View Post

      Hey guys,

      I'm really enjoying following this thread but I'm a little confused about the site transfer process.

      If you sell a site to someone who doesn't have hosting do they register the 'bought' domain (i.e the one you've just sold them) when they buy the hosting or will they need to register using a different domain name first?

      Thanks,

      Rich
      I make separate accounts for each domain, so I just "give" them the account. I tell them how to update the nameservers and stuff, but so far, I've done everything for the sites that have sold.
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  • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
    Banned
    They can register with the one they are purchasing from you. If I'm installing the site for them, I transfer the domain last, after the site is up and running. I change the nameservers to theirs, but don't push it until I see everything is working well.
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    • Profile picture of the author RichPargeter
      Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

      They can register with the one they are purchasing from you. If I'm installing the site for them, I transfer the domain last, after the site is up and running. I change the nameservers to theirs, but don't push it until I see everything is working well.
      Hi sbucciarel, thanks for the reply.

      So just to be clear, the process should be:-
      1. Sell the site
      2. Customers buys hosting using the domain name they have bought
      3. I change the nameservers to point to the customers hosting
      4. Upload WordPress files etc
      5. Check all is working
      6. Finally push the domain to the customers domain account
      As a side note would you mind if I PM you with the details of the site I am selling to get your opinion on the value I should expect for it.

      Thanks again,

      Rich
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  • Profile picture of the author HAdrian1239
    I have a question that may seem like a dumb one... but how exactly do you set it up so you get the hosting referral, or the money from that?

    I've sold my first site, about a month ago now, a PR 2 mini site with a some adsense revenue (didn't know about this at the time of sale) and decent traffic, ranking number one on google for 2 months... with bunch of unique content, and some extra files etc for $300.

    I should have held out for more, but I needed the $$ Anyway, it's all done now but the buyer was a real time sucker... (knew nothing of their own information, and relied on a technician who conveniently would not respond to either of us) And I am still learning...

    So in the future I plan on upgrading to a reseller account... but what is the best way to go about getting your hosting commissions?
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by HAdrian1239 View Post

      So in the future I plan on upgrading to a reseller account... but what is the best way to go about getting your hosting commissions?

      I recommend for all flippers to get real familiar with moving sites from one host to another. If you have reseller hosting, you do not get the commission. You host the site and charge the buyer for the hosting.

      Personally, I do not want to be involved with billing people for hosting. I have a reseller acct that I use only for convenience. I've got a cpanel login I can give them right away, but I offer to move the site for them immediately. If they don't want me to move it, they've got a month on my host to move it to theirs ... but most of them want me to move it.
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      • Profile picture of the author HAdrian1239
        Originally Posted by sbucciarel View Post

        I recommend for all flippers to get real familiar with moving sites from one host to another. If you have reseller hosting, you do not get the commission. You host the site and charge the buyer for the hosting.

        Personally, I do not want to be involved with billing people for hosting. I have a reseller acct that I use only for convenience. I've got a cpanel login I can give them right away, but I offer to move the site for them immediately. If they don't want me to move it, they've got a month on my host to move it to theirs ... but most of them want me to move it.
        Oh, that makes sense, you set them up a hosting account and move it (if they don't all ready have hosting) or they have access to your info via the reseller acct to move it themselves.

        Is that right?

        Sorry, I don't mean to sound dense. I had a bad experience with that first buyer and his technician as well as my own, so I will be moving everything and making sure ALL of it is very clear from now on.
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        • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
          Banned
          Originally Posted by HAdrian1239 View Post

          Oh, that makes sense, you set them up a hosting account and move it (if they don't all ready have hosting) or they have access to your info via the reseller acct to move it themselves.

          Is that right?

          Sorry, I don't mean to sound dense. I had a bad experience with that first buyer and his technician as well as my own, so I will be moving everything and making sure ALL of it is very clear from now on.
          The reseller acct is basically to just give them access immediately to the site they just purchased. I usually want to get it moved right away if I'm going to move it. If they need hosting, I just give them my Hostgator affiliate link to earn a commission. I really don't want to be involved in hosting it myself on my reseller acct and billing them.
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  • Profile picture of the author SageSound
    FWIW, I think the term "flipping" is not appropriate for what you guys are describing here.

    For the most part, what you're doing is some basic keyword research, picking good domain names, setting up a new site from scratch, then selling it to someone for a fair price.

    In real estate terms, that's "building a spec home". The builder puts up a home on a lot that has no buyer in the queue. When the home is finished, it's sold by the developer. They make a bigger margin on it than if it was pre-sold, mainly b/c the sales price tends to rise while it's being built, although most of the costs have already been incurred.

    And spec homes are cheaper than fully custom homes b/c the builder doesn't need to spend much time with finnicky buyers. They just tell their interior designer to pick out a nice complement of features and upgrades, and go with it.

    OTOH, if you do happen to buy a crappy looking site, fix it up, then resell it, that IS a "flip". But most of the comments here seem to indicate that's the exception rather than the norm.

    The funny thing is, I don't understand why people seem to think that nobody would be interested in buying well-designed spec web sites.

    If you wanted to have a nice web site created for you, you'd have to find someone to make it. Then you'd spend a bunch of time discussing details like the niche, keywords, domain name options, hosting options, and all kinds of other things that most people find little more than distractions. And for the privledge of wasting tons of time on these tangential details, you get to pay a premium!

    But, if you just cruise around some of these sites where people are selling brand spanking new sites they built on 'spec', you get the best of both worlds. You get a unique, custom-built site (hopefully), at a price way lower than what it would cost you to have something similar done under contract. And the best thing is ... you can move in tomorrow!

    Quickie sites full of PLR and popular templates are a dime a dozen. They take 10 minutes to set up, and anybody who's been cruising the sales forums for any length of time can recognize them in 10 seconds.

    I know someone who builds custom Joomla sites on spec and sells them for $400. But she says that the average buyer pays her another $1200 to add additional plugins and features to the site immediately AFTER the sale! Her sites look like DYNAMITE, and she could probably sell them easily at $1000 each. But, at $400, she sells them in less than 24 hours. And her net is often between $1500 and $2000 after she spends a couple more hours adding mods.

    Anyway, I think that referring to this work as "flipped" sites is really disengenuous. You guys are building brand new custom sites from scratch and selling them at what might seem like a high price -- but it's in fact WAY LESS than what you'd have to charge a client who asked specifically for that site to be built. Personally, don't think I'd charge any less than $500, and maybe more. Seriously! There's a healthy market for this kind of thing!

    Keep up the great work!

    -David
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    • Profile picture of the author sbucciarel
      Banned
      Originally Posted by SageSound View Post

      FWIW, I think the term "flipping" is not appropriate for what you guys are describing here.
      -David
      That's true ... most of the sites I sell actually are flips though. I normally buy them and start selling the product/ebook/videos and once I get some revenue established, I sell them. But I do still build sites from scratch to sell to fill in if I'm letting a bunch of flips age before selling. Both are profitable models, but like you said, people can spot the quickie popular template sites a mile off and are sick of seeing them. They went like hot cakes on Flippa for a month or so and then the sales dropped off drastically. Well built sites with a unique design in a good niche still sell fine, even if PLR is used for articles.
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  • Profile picture of the author sahanull
    i just advertise in gumtree for my website design service and it keeps me going.
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