Is what I'm doing dishonest?

by Dave O
65 replies
For the past couple days I've been trying to resell Fiverr logo gigs to buyers I find on Craigslist.

In my opening email I've included examples of work that the Fiverr sellers I'm most interested in have posted on their own gig pages.

At no time did I ever say those images were mine nor am I trying to sell them. I also never stated that those were images developed through work provided for my own customers. All I've said is that the images were examples of what is possible and what the designers are capable of.

Is doing this dishonest?

Thank you

Dave
#dishonest
  • Profile picture of the author jherewini
    For me personally its one of those tomato / tomatoe things, I dont think what your doing is dishonest, like you say your not claiming their work as your own and should you get hired your going to be sending work towards the fiverr gig anyway.

    win for your client, win for the fiverr designer and win for you.
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  • Profile picture of the author FarNext
    Originally Posted by Dave O View Post

    For the past couple days I've been trying to resell Fiverr logo gigs to buyers I find on Craigslist.

    In my opening email I've included examples of work that the Fiverr sellers I'm most interested in have posted on their own gig pages.

    At no time did I ever say those images were mine nor am I trying to sell them. I also never stated that those were images developed through work provided for my own customers. All I've said is that the images were examples of what is possible and what the designers are capable of.

    Is doing this dishonest?

    Thank you

    Dave
    __________________________________________________ _________


    Yes, it is dishonest. Because somebody who is buying your services thinks that you are providing your own services. FTC could cause problems if they catch you.

    The Disclaimer page (or Terms of service page) of your website must mention that you are a web contractor OR that you hire web designers OR you outsource tasks to the third parties/web designers etc.etc. It is not necessary to mention that from where you hire people! Don't tell you hire at Fiverr.
    Many companies hire/outsource services and they don't tell their clients.

    If you send to your prospective clients some sort of a .pdf or a .doc file as your portfolio file, mention that at the last page of portfolio under the heading "credits" or "Disclaimer". Mention the lines as given above.

    It will not do any harm, since people who need your services will simply go ahead and buy.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dave O
      Originally Posted by FarNext View Post

      __________________________________________________ _________


      Yes, it is dishonest. Because somebody who is buying your services thinks that you are providing your own services. FTC could cause problems if they catch you.

      The Disclaimer page (or Terms of service page) of your website must mention that you are a web contractor OR that you hire web designers OR you outsource tasks to the third parties/web designers etc.etc.

      If you send to your prospective clients some sort of a .pdf or a .doc file as your portfolio file, mention that at the last page of portfolio under the heading "credits" or "Disclaimer". Mention the lines as given above.
      I'll work on that. Thank you.
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    • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
      Banned
      Originally Posted by FarNext View Post

      __________________________________________________ _________
      Yes, it is dishonest. Because somebody who is buying your services thinks that you are providing your own services. FTC could cause problems if they catch you.
      Right. The FTC is going to drop everything to be all over this. lol

      Ludicrous.

      Cheers. - Frank
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      • Profile picture of the author FarNext
        Originally Posted by BigFrank View Post

        Right. The FTC is going to drop everything to be all over this. lol

        Ludicrous.

        Cheers. - Frank
        _______________________________________________

        Fortunately, yes. They are dropping bombs not only on business owners who are with vague earning disclaimers but also on affiliates and Internet Marketers.
        Regarding affiliates, Google "FTC break down on affiliates" and see yourself.

        Cheers. - Farnext
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        • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
          Banned
          Originally Posted by FarNext View Post

          _______________________________________________

          Fortunately, yes. They are dropping bombs not only on business owners who are with vague earning disclaimers but also on affiliates and Internet Marketers.
          Regarding affiliates, Google "FTC break down on affiliates" and see yourself.

          Cheers. - Farnext
          Never trust anything you read on the Internet. Googled, or not.

          Cheers. - Frank
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    • Profile picture of the author positivegirl
      Originally Posted by FarNext View Post

      __________________________________________________ _________


      Yes, it is dishonest. Because somebody who is buying your services thinks that you are providing your own services. FTC could cause problems if they catch you.

      The Disclaimer page (or Terms of service page) of your website must mention that you are a web contractor OR that you hire web designers OR you outsource tasks to the third parties/web designers etc.etc. It is not necessary to mention that from where you hire people! Don't tell you hire at Fiverr.
      Many companies hire/outsource services and they don't tell their clients.

      If you send to your prospective clients some sort of a .pdf or a .doc file as your portfolio file, mention that at the last page of portfolio under the heading "credits" or "Disclaimer". Mention the lines as given above.

      It will not do any harm, since people who need your services will simply go ahead and buy.
      I don0t think so, I mean: you can say you can make the job done without talking about who will do the job. Or that you run a company that will get the job done. Please, this is simple arbitrage!!! go ahead and do it if you are making money! Good Luck
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  • Profile picture of the author JC Web
    You don't have permission to use those images, so not only is it dishonest, it is illegal.
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    • Profile picture of the author FarNext
      Originally Posted by JC Web View Post

      You don't have permission to use those images, so not only is it dishonest, it is illegal.
      __________________________________________________ ____

      Buying low and selling high is not a new business! We don't know how many companies are out there who outsource their services and sell us their services (at high prices) without letting us know... e.g. Your ISP never tells you where has he outsourced his staff. There are many such cases. As an another example: In the information product creation business, the Internet marketers don't create all the stuff on their own. They outsource the sales page, squeeze page, e-book covers and don't know how much more other stuff in which they lack skills; wouldn't mean they are guilty of availing services of other people. Next, they sell their products (some products are expensive... costing $1000+).
      Further to add he is not "selling" portfolio images as his example work. All that example work from Fiverr is just a demonstration of the quality of the end result, his prospective clients can expect from him. Those work samples are just to give an idea how will the end result look like.

      As long as you clearly mention your business/earning terms and you don't violate the Copyrights of others, you are in a legal business


      .
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      • Profile picture of the author JC Web
        Originally Posted by FarNext View Post

        __________________________________________________ ____

        Buying low and selling high is not a new business! We don't know how many companies are out there who outsource their services and sell us their services (at high prices) without letting us know... e.g. Your ISP never tells you where has he outsourced his staff. There are many such cases. As an another example: In the information product creation business, the Internet marketers don't create all the stuff on their own. They outsource the sales page, squeeze page, e-book covers and don't know how much more other stuff in which they lack skills; wouldn't mean they are guilty of availing services of other people. Next, they sell their products (some products are expensive... costing $1000+).

        As long as you clearly mention your business/earning terms and you don't violate copyrights, you are in a legal business


        .
        Let me repeat. What he is doing is illegal. No matter how many words you throw at it, it remains illegal.
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      • Profile picture of the author ppetri
        I totally agree. Be upfront and honest with all parties. There is more money in honesty than any other business practice!

        Originally Posted by FarNext View Post

        __________________________________________________ ____

        Buying low and selling high is not a new business! We don't know how many companies are out there who outsource their services and sell us their services (at high prices) without letting us know... e.g. Your ISP never tells you where has he outsourced his staff. There are many such cases. As an another example: In the information product creation business, the Internet marketers don't create all the stuff on their own. They outsource the sales page, squeeze page, e-book covers and don't know how much more other stuff in which they lack skills; wouldn't mean they are guilty of availing services of other people. Next, they sell their products (some products are expensive... costing $1000+).
        Further to add he is not "selling" portfolio images as his example work. All that example work from Fiverr is just a demonstration of the quality of the end result, his prospective clients can expect from him. Those work samples are just to give an idea how will the end result look like.

        As long as you clearly mention your business/earning terms and you don't violate the Copyrights of others, you are in a legal business


        .
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    Something I've discovered in my own life is that 99.9% of the time, if a person has to ask if something is illegal, dishonest, immoral, wrong, etc. they already know it is and therefore shouldn't be doing it.

    I think that would probably be the case here.

    Mark
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    • Profile picture of the author Leslie B
      Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

      Something I've discovered in my own life is that 99.9% of the time, if a person has to ask if something is illegal, dishonest, immoral, wrong, etc. they already know it is and therefore shouldn't be doing it.

      I think that would probably be the case here.

      Mark
      ^^^^ THIS

      You don't hold the rights for those images, so you can't use them. What you can do is hire the designer and have him do some logos which you can then show as example. Or you could contact him, talk to him about you hiring him for your clients and that you would like to show examples of his work. The only thing that can happen is that he says "no". If he says "yes", there's no problem.

      Leslie
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  • Profile picture of the author ppetri
    "Hello craigslist, I am a graphic design broker and I have a dozen professionals that can provide you with stunning graphic designs. Here are samples of their work."

    Now you told the truth! when a client purchases your "broker service" you tell the Fiver designer that you have a client that needs this work completed. Use the same fiver designer a few times and then renegotiate the rates so you receive a bulk discounted rate. Thus you make more money in the long run.

    You are providing your clients with professional designers and you are giving graphic designers more work, work they would not have without you. WIN WIN for all parties. - Pete

    P.S. To answer your question... YES, the wording of your thread sounds dishonest. But congratulations, you are now a graphic designs broker!
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    • Profile picture of the author FarNext
      Originally Posted by ppetri View Post

      "Hello craigslist, I am a graphic design broker and I have a dozen professionals that can provide you with stunning graphic designs. Here are samples of their work."

      Now you told the truth! when a client purchases your "broker service" you tell the Fiver designer that you have a client that needs this work completed. Use the same fiver designer a few times and then renegotiate the rates so you receive a bulk discounted rate. Thus you make more money in the long run.

      You are providing your clients with professional designers and you are giving graphic designers more work, work they would not have without you. WIN WIN for all parties. - Pete

      P.S. To answer your question... YES, the wording of your thread sounds dishonest. But congratulations, you are now a graphic designs broker!
      _________________________________________

      Excellent, thanks.
      This is what I have been trying to say. It is much better to say it on the spot to the prospective clients and also mention it in your website earnings disclaimer or terms of service.

      .
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    • Profile picture of the author dustinthigpen
      Originally Posted by ppetri View Post

      "Hello craigslist, I am a graphic design broker and I have a dozen professionals that can provide you with stunning graphic designs. Here are samples of their work."

      Now you told the truth! when a client purchases your "broker service" you tell the Fiver designer that you have a client that needs this work completed. Use the same fiver designer a few times and then renegotiate the rates so you receive a bulk discounted rate. Thus you make more money in the long run.

      You are providing your clients with professional designers and you are giving graphic designers more work, work they would not have without you. WIN WIN for all parties. - Pete

      P.S. To answer your question... YES, the wording of your thread sounds dishonest. But congratulations, you are now a graphic designs broker!

      This is a great answer! I was going to suggest something similar. Change your wording to be more honest, but you don't need to give away your source. I've done something similar in the past, setting up people with web designers who needed websites. To be honest, getting the clients is the tough part, so you're definitely doing the sellers a favor.

      It's a legit gig to be the middle man. As far as copyright of the images, just ask some sellers if they have some images they are ok with you using. No harm, no foul, if you get permission.

      I won't add anymore to this, Pete's answer was on point!

      -Dustin
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    • Profile picture of the author positivegirl
      Originally Posted by ppetri View Post

      "Hello craigslist, I am a graphic design broker and I have a dozen professionals that can provide you with stunning graphic designs. Here are samples of their work."

      Now you told the truth! when a client purchases your "broker service" you tell the Fiver designer that you have a client that needs this work completed. Use the same fiver designer a few times and then renegotiate the rates so you receive a bulk discounted rate. Thus you make more money in the long run.

      You are providing your clients with professional designers and you are giving graphic designers more work, work they would not have without you. WIN WIN for all parties. - Pete

      P.S. To answer your question... YES, the wording of your thread sounds dishonest. But congratulations, you are now a graphic designs broker!

      Wow, this is what this thread needed!
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  • Profile picture of the author Skystar
    .
    Absolutely not - you're utilizing a resource. If I was reselling web hosting
    would that be illegal, unethical or immoral? Of course not. You not only
    must confer with potential customers, you're giving work to logo designers
    who probably wouldn't get it without your efforts.
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    • Profile picture of the author JC Web
      Originally Posted by Skystar View Post

      .
      Absolutely not - you're utilizing a resource. If I was reselling web hosting
      would that be illegal, unethical or immoral? Of course not. You not only
      must confer with potential customers, you're giving work to logo designers
      who probably wouldn't get it without your efforts.
      If you were reselling something you had stolen it would be illegal. And if you were using stolen property to promote your business it would be illegal. And he has stolen the images he is using.
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      • Profile picture of the author FarNext
        Originally Posted by JC Web View Post

        If you were reselling something you had stolen it would be illegal. And if you were using stolen property to promote your business it would be illegal. And he has stolen the images he is using.
        __________________________________________________

        Ha Ha Ha.....
        He is selling something that he purchased. You don't know the difference between purchasing and stealing
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        • Profile picture of the author JC Web
          Originally Posted by FarNext View Post

          __________________________________________________

          Ha Ha Ha.....
          He is selling something that he purchased. You don't know the difference between purchasing and stealing
          He made very clear that he has not purchased the images he is using as examples of the work he is offering. He is not allowed to use those images and it is illegal what he is currently doing. You need to stop making excuses for him.
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          • Profile picture of the author FarNext
            Originally Posted by JC Web View Post

            He made very clear that he has not purchased the images he is using as examples of the work he is offering. He is not allowed to use those images and it is illegal what he is currently doing. You need to stop making excuses for him.
            ________________________________________________

            I am not making excuses for anybody. Something that is a fact, is a fact.
            In order to give examples, you don't need to buy or own that stuff. If I would like to give you an example of Mercedes Benz that costs $500,000 then according to your logic : I must buy that Mercedes model and then tell you, "See the car that I will manufacture for you will look like this creation ".....
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            • Profile picture of the author JC Web
              Originally Posted by FarNext View Post

              ________________________________________________

              I am not making excuses for anybody. Something that is fact is a fact.
              In order to give examples, you don't need to buy or own that stuff. If I would like to give you an example of Mercedes Benz that costs $500,000 then according to your logic : I must buy that Mercedes model and then tell you, "See the car that I will manufacture for you will look like this creation ".....
              You are clueless.
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              • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                I've included examples of work that the Fiverr sellers I'm most interested in have posted on their own gig pages.
                You are advertising images you have NO right to use. By using those images you INFER they are yours...whether you say it or not.

                More honest way - you buy a few custom logos from the Fiverr sellers you like. That gives you the copyright to those images and you can use them to advertise.
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              • Profile picture of the author FarNext
                Originally Posted by JC Web View Post

                You are clueless.

                I never knew my mother in law lives at Warrior forum ... (Just joking. Please never mind...)
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            • Profile picture of the author SMworkcafe
              Originally Posted by FarNext View Post

              ________________________________________________
              In order to give examples
              Hold it right there.

              How hard is it for someone to add a short disclaimer that he does not originally own the 'examples' he is showing?

              How hard is it telling buyers anything like this: 'I had a hard time finding designers who are also in my budget. I have come across highly skillful people who can do this, this and this AND they are highly affordable too! I bet they can help you out too. Here are some of their samples/ 'examples' - pricing starts from $ - PM me if you want customized orders. I can set them up for you. P.S., TOD may vary due to the availability of these guys. Bulk orders are accepted.'

              Obviously one can edit the above written script and can add more juice into it.

              Using other people's content (in any shape) without a disclaimer is illegal and morally incorrect.

              This is what the others are trying to explain to the OP and other like minded people.
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            • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
              Originally Posted by FarNext View Post

              ________________________________________________

              I am not making excuses for anybody. Something that is a fact, is a fact.
              In order to give examples, you don't need to buy or own that stuff. If I would like to give you an example of Mercedes Benz that costs $500,000 then according to your logic : I must buy that Mercedes model and then tell you, "See the car that I will manufacture for you will look like this creation ".....
              The bold part above a patently false.

              What is copyright infringement?

              Copyright infringement happens whenever someone makes copies or commercially exploits a work without the copyright owner's permission.

              Many designers are surprised to learn that infringement occurs even when you merely copy someone's work for intermediate purposes, as in the following examples:
              • An advertising agency creates a comp using images from an artist's or photographer's portfolio. The comp itself is an act of infringement. If the final artwork is substantially similar to the art that was used in the comp, it counts as a second infringement.
              • An image is digitally copied (e.g., scanned or downloaded) in order to manipulate it with a program like Photoshop. The mere act of making the precursor digital copy counts as a separate act of infringement, regardless of whether the final manipulated image is substantially similar.
              Source: AIGA | Copyright Basics for Graphic Designers

              In your Mercedes example, you can't take a third party's image of a Mercedes and use it for commercial purposes.
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              • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                Thank you Dan! The misinformation in this thread is mind boggling.

                If you didn't create the image - if you didn't pay to use the image - if you don't have permission from the artist/designer to use the image....don't use the image.
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                • Profile picture of the author SMworkcafe
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                  • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
                    Where did he say he actually purchased the images???
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                    • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
                      Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

                      Where did he say he actually purchased the images???
                      In http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...l#post10211507 he admits he hadn't initially because he was working on that now (purchasing the images).

                      Mark
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                    • Profile picture of the author SMworkcafe
                      Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

                      Where did he say he actually purchased the images???
                      I am giving the OP a benefit of doubt here. If he meant to say, "the Fiverr seller sold the work to me and now I am reselling it". If this is what he meant then my updated comment applies to him.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
                        Much later in the thread he admitted he hadn't bought them because he was in the process of doing that now.

                        No benefit of the doubt needed. He was wrong but now is in the process of changing apparently. Until it's changed, though, it's still wrong because he's using images that aren't his. If you go past the resell comment in his opening post, you will see he's finding images people have posted on their sites that he likes. Clearly he didn't buy them.

                        Mark

                        Originally Posted by SMworkcafe View Post

                        I am giving the OP a benefit of doubt here. If he meant to say, "the Fiverr seller sold the work to me and now I am reselling it". If this is what he meant then my above stated comment applies to him.
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                        • Profile picture of the author SMworkcafe
                          Originally Posted by Mark Singletary View Post

                          Much later in the thread he admitted he hadn't bought them because he was in the process of doing that now.

                          No benefit of the doubt needed. He was wrong but now is in the process of changing apparently. Until it's changed, though, it's still wrong because he's using images that aren't his. If you go past the resell comment in his opening post, you will see he's finding images people have posted on their sites that he likes. Clearly he didn't buy them.

                          Mark
                          Got it. Edited my recent comment accordingly.
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                    • Profile picture of the author Dan Riffle
                      Originally Posted by wolfmmiii View Post

                      Where did he say he actually purchased the images???

                      I'm glad you asked, Tom. You've given me an opening. He didn't. But let's see what he did say:


                      Originally Posted by Dave O View Post

                      For the past couple days I've been trying to resell Fiverr logo gigs to buyers I find on Craigslist.

                      In my opening email I've included examples of work that the Fiverr sellers I'm most interested in have posted on their own gig pages.

                      At no time did I ever say those images were mine nor am I trying to sell them.

                      If we read for comprehension, we see he's trying to resell Fiverr logo gigs. He states he's included sellers' examples and he states he never said the images were his. Ipso facto, he does not own them.


                      This is very clear if we read to comprehend, not read to rush to post our opinion.

                      Originally Posted by wiredup View Post

                      There's a mild loophole here which it seems most people in the thread are missing. If he purchased the images

                      Let me stop you there. He didn't purchase them. He might be purchasing something now, but he wasn't at the beginning.


                      Originally Posted by DollarShark View Post

                      What are you doing its an old outsourcing model that worked back in 2011-2012 the most. from legal point you don't have any problem, unless you claim that you own and created those images.

                      It doesn't matter if he claims he owns or created them. The mere act of using them without permission is a copyright violation.

                      Originally Posted by rmbd2012 View Post

                      No. It is no dishonest. Firstly you bought from anyone. Now you can sell it to others. There is no problem.

                      Firstly, he bought from no one.

                      Originally Posted by aire View Post

                      Dear OP, Please do not listen to people who tell you to jump hoops and loops to sell.
                      What you are doing is NOT wrong & NOT dishonest. You are just a middleman for profit.

                      This is the worst advice yet. Those "hoops and loops" are what other people call "The Law". Is it likely the OP would ever get caught? Maybe, maybe not. All it takes is once.


                      OP, just contact some of the vendors and strike deals with them. They'll most likely give you written permission to use their portfolio. Just make sure to ask if the vendor has permission to grant you permission. Contracts differ. If a customer retains sole copyright, the vendor may only have permission to use the image in their own portfolio and may not be able to grant third party permission.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                        This is very clear if we read to comprehend, not read to rush to post our opinion.
                        True - but reading to comprehend before answering seems to be in short supply here recently!
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            • Profile picture of the author BrandyW
              Originally Posted by FarNext View Post

              ________________________________________________

              I am not making excuses for anybody. Something that is a fact, is a fact.
              In order to give examples, you don't need to buy or own that stuff. If I would like to give you an example of Mercedes Benz that costs $500,000 then according to your logic : I must buy that Mercedes model and then tell you, "See the car that I will manufacture for you will look like this creation ".....
              This is not true. In order to use work from someone else, you either have to own it or get permission first. He is not promoting the designers work but using their samples to promote his services. Even for advertising you need permission to use another person's work. It's ok to use once he has permission or buys it but not until then. Even calling yourself a broker is sending false claims. You are not a broker until you actually make arrangements with the designers to become a broker for their designs. I love Bob Proctor but I cannot use his material to promote myself. That would be unethical and not to mention, false advertising.
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      • Profile picture of the author beakman
        Spot on. I've worked in marketing and design for years and years, and have been on every side of the table -- designer, broker, buyer, vendor, you name it.

        This is illegal. Period. It doesn't matter WHAT the text of the ad says if you do not have WRITTEN permission to use them. If they are just samples created by the designers, then the copyright belongs to those designers. If they are pieces the designers were paid to produce, then the copyright belongs to whomever hired the designer. So what you are doing is using someone's copyrighted work to advertise your business.

        This is no different than using a copyrighted music/photo/likeness/logo in a commercial for your business. If the copyright owner happens to catch it, you'll quite likely get sued. And if you do get sued, you will absolutely lose. I've seen it happen. "Oh, they'll never know." WRONG. Many designers use google image search, etc. to find copies of their work on the web. I know an artist who is currently sinking his teeth into someone who stole his designs -- and google is how he found the guy.

        Now, if you contact 5, 10 designers on fiverr and get their permission, and also you word your ad correctly, you'll be in good shape. But get that permission in writing! If someone changes their mind about you using their work, the burden of proof will be on YOU, not them.

        p.s. and before anyone gets picky, yes, "copyrighted" is correct. It isn't "copywritten", etc. Someone always has to say something. LOL
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  • Profile picture of the author chaotic squid
    Nothing wrong with using Fiverr to get logo design work done. However, using their work as examples is dishonest. People are investing in YOU, not the Fiverr designer. Therefore, you need so show work that was done by you or under your guidance.

    Even though you never claimed the work was yours, people will ASSUME it's your work. Since the Fiverr logos are so cheap, why not commission a few yourself as examples?

    Also, I hope that you have a strong graphic design background too. It's very likely that you may have to do some tweaks, changes, revisions yourself. What if your client needs a small revision done in a few hours? Would you be able to do it? Only outsource stuff you know you can do yourself, your clients are depending on you.
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  • Profile picture of the author Nisip
    Banned
    The quality of the work that you get from fiver is unfortunately bottom low.

    The easiest way to kill your business might be by lowering the quality of what you sell at such level that your reputation will suffer because of it

    That´s my opinion and of those whom I asked about fiver
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    • Profile picture of the author FarNext
      Originally Posted by Nisip View Post

      The quality of the work that you get from fiver is unfortunately bottom low.

      The easiest way to kill your business might be by lowering the quality of what you sell at such level that your reputation will suffer because of it

      That´s my opinion and of those whom I asked about fiver
      __________________________________________________ ________

      Not always true for all services on Fiverr
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    • Profile picture of the author BigFrank
      Banned
      Originally Posted by Nisip View Post

      The quality of the work that you get from fiver is unfortunately bottom low.

      The easiest way to kill your business might be by lowering the quality of what you sell at such level that your reputation will suffer because of it

      That´s my opinion and of those whom I asked about fiver
      There are many excellent logo designers on Fiverr. I have gotten work that is much better than some folks I see charging $100 or more.

      You shouldn't paint with such a broad brush.

      Cheers. - Frank
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  • Profile picture of the author Alexandre Valois
    I wouldn't touch fiverr logo designers with a 10 foot pole.

    Portfolio samples full of stolen images from actual graphic designers, unsustainable prices, poor quality logos, often stolen from Google and if you are lucky slightly modified...

    You're helping scammers out and screwing up legit business owners to make a profit. The problem is people on fiverr can get away with it, everyone knows at least subconsciously that if I pay $5 and get crap, I get what I paid for.

    If you resell that crap logo $50 to a local business owner, prepare for the pitchforks,
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  • Profile picture of the author SMworkcafe
    Originally Posted by Dave O View Post

    For the past couple days I've been trying to resell Fiverr logo gigs to buyers I find on Craigslist.

    In my opening email I've included examples of work that the Fiverr sellers I'm most interested in have posted on their own gig pages.

    At no time did I ever say those images were mine nor am I trying to sell them. I also never stated that those were images developed through work provided for my own customers. All I've said is that the images were examples of what is possible and what the designers are capable of.

    Is doing this dishonest?

    Thank you

    Dave
    Hey Dave!

    First of all, congrats on having that realization going on in your head. You are going on the right path.

    Here's something you can do about it:

    Go through designs/ graphics whatever you want sell on Craigslist on any PLR website. The 'content' has to have private label rights or master resell rights - you choose.

    Then, go back to your favorite Fiverr design seller and ask him whether he can make similar stuff.

    If he gives you a nod, BOOM!

    You can show the exact design/ template/ graphic/ whatever to your Craigslist people.

    However, you still need to add a disclaimer that you are outsourcing services. I have stated how in my comment above.

    Start with this first.
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  • Originally Posted by Dave O View Post


    At no time did I ever say those images were mine nor am I trying to sell them.

    Is doing this dishonest?

    Thank you

    Dave
    At no time did you say "I Didn't Create These" leaving the reader to assume you did in fact create them. So .... walks like a duck, quacks like a duck... probably is a duck
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  • Profile picture of the author Randall Magwood
    If you have to question it, and then question us too.... don't do it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Chris Chicas
    Like someone else stated, calling yourself a "broker" or even perhaps "agency" will greatly help you. It's all in the wording and most clients will understand if you have outsourcers as people that work with you. Although I am not sure Fiverr would be the best places to go, unless you do have someone who is really talented there. And even then, I wouldn't just pay them $5 per logo if they are talented.

    All the best.
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    • Profile picture of the author webmarketer
      Think NAFTA and the outsourcing of sneakers, Nike, Reebok, Adidas, Converse, and New Balance, manufacture to third world countries and around the globe.

      Do you think it's dishonest that these workers don't get paid the same as their US counterparts? You could be wearing a pair now, which you paid for for over $100. Does that thought make you comfortable or not?

      But then, if the wages are equal, that would defeat the purpose, right? Profit margins of the capitalists would erode.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dave O
    Thanks everyone
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  • Profile picture of the author johnapuna
    I dont understand what the issue is. The OP states that the images are works of other designers. Just as a fiverr seller sells his logo to a buyer and then still uses the logo as part of his portfolio, the images can be used as a portfolio of his previous "brokering" deals
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    • Profile picture of the author wolfmmiii
      Originally Posted by johnapuna View Post

      I dont understand what the issue is. The OP states that the images are works of other designers. Just as a fiverr seller sells his logo to a buyer and then still uses the logo as part of his portfolio, the images can be used as a portfolio of his previous "brokering" deals
      No, they can't. The images don't belong to OP. He has no permission to use them. It's basic copyright law. Cut and dry.
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  • Profile picture of the author wiredup
    There's a mild loophole here which it seems most people in the thread are missing.
    If he purchased the images he is using from the sellers on Fiverr, he owns them, legally, by Fiverr's TOS. In reality, he also owns all materials that were bought by the third parties he is reselling to unless otherwise specified in a legal contract between the two.

    "Ownership and limitations: unless clearly stated otherwise in the Gig description text, when the work is delivered, the buyer is granted all intellectual property rights, including but not limited to, copyrights for the work delivered from the seller and the seller waives any and all moral rights therein. For removal of doubt, in custom created work (such as art work, design work, report generation etc.), the delivered service shall be the exclusive property of buyer. The seller expressly agrees to assign to buyer the copyright in any delivered services that do not meet the requirements of a work-for-hire under the U.S. Copyright Act. Additionally, independent of the U.S. Copyright Act, the seller agrees that unless he indicated otherwise in the Gig description, once the order is completed the seller assigns along with it to the buyer, to the fullest extent possible under the law, all of its rights, title and interest, if any, in and to the delivered service and waives any and all moral rights in connection therewith."

    What's even more is that if a seller uses something he made for a buyer without explicit permission from the buyer, they are in fact breaking the law, and the TOS set forth by Fiverr.

    Your best bet would be to shell out $5 to each seller you are wishing to resell for, and use those works as your references as they are legally yours.
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    • Profile picture of the author Dave O
      Originally Posted by wiredup View Post


      Your best bet would be to shell out $5 to each seller you are wishing to resell for, and use those works as your references as they are legally yours.
      Yep. That's what I'm currently working on now.
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        Good for you - I'm glad you "got it" though it's clear many posting in this thread didn't understand the issue.
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  • Profile picture of the author jbmarwood
    Why not contact the designers on fiver first and ask if you can represent them?
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  • Profile picture of the author aire
    Did someone bring up FTC? ..... SMH.

    Dear OP, Please do not listen to people who tell you to jump hoops and loops to sell.
    What you are doing is NOT wrong & NOT dishonest. You are just a middleman for profit.

    Good wishes. Focus on what you are doing instead of asking people if what
    you are doing is dishonest...
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    • Profile picture of the author fantrom
      Originally Posted by aire View Post

      Did someone bring up FTC? ..... SMH.

      Dear OP, Please do not listen to people who tell you to jump hoops and loops to sell.
      What you are doing is NOT wrong & NOT dishonest. You are just a middleman for profit.

      Good wishes. Focus on what you are doing instead of asking people if what
      you are doing is dishonest...
      Stealing is no longer wrong or dishonest? Sweet!!!

      I'm on my way to tell my lawyer he's full of sh*t.

      Someone said it on the internet so it must be true.
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  • Profile picture of the author rmbd2012
    Originally Posted by Dave O View Post

    For the past couple days I've been trying to resell Fiverr logo gigs to buyers I find on Craigslist.

    In my opening email I've included examples of work that the Fiverr sellers I'm most interested in have posted on their own gig pages.

    At no time did I ever say those images were mine nor am I trying to sell them. I also never stated that those were images developed through work provided for my own customers. All I've said is that the images were examples of what is possible and what the designers are capable of.

    Is doing this dishonest?

    Thank you

    Dave
    No. It is no dishonest. Firstly you bought from anyone. Now you can sell it to others. There is no problem. Microsoft company bought the SKYPE, now the authority of the Microsoft company sell the Skype to anyone. There is no obstacle. So I am sure you can sell them anywhere. There are many worker works in a group. Then the group leader sell the product again & again. But the group leader paid that workers one time only. Carry on.
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  • Profile picture of the author SMworkcafe
    Originally Posted by Dave O View Post

    For the past couple days I've been trying to resell Fiverr logo gigs to buyers I find on Craigslist.
    Dave,

    Now, if you DID purchase the work and trying to resell it. My advice will change accordingly:

    According to the copyrights infringement: You are NOT doing anything illegal and not violating the copyrights because your purchases are YOUR property and you can definitely show them as examples to anyone in the world.

    How am I saying this? It's mentioned under the 'Ownership' and 'Commercial Use License' sections here: https://www.fiverr.com/terms_of_service

    According to the morales: Quoting from the Fiverr's Terms of Service page under the 'Ownership' section -

    "the buyer is granted all intellectual property rights, including but not limited to, copyrights for the work delivered from the seller, and the seller waives any and all moral rights therein. The delivered work shall be considered work-for-hire under the U.S. Copyright Act. In the event the delivered work does not meet the requirements of work-for-hire or when US Copyright Act does not apply, the seller expressly agrees to assign to buyer the copyright in the delivered work"

    Yep. Better ask the seller about it.

    Became easy isn't it?

    Cheers!
    Signature

    Cheers!

    - Sana.

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  • Profile picture of the author DollarShark
    What are you doing its an old outsourcing model that worked back in 2011-2012 the most. from legal point you don't have any problem, unless you claim that you own and created those images. But i think you have moral problems here, and yes from morals point view, it's dishonest you are letting others with the feeling that you create and deliver these logos, it isn't illegal but not moral either.
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  • Profile picture of the author MarksWineClub
    Dishonest? Probably not. It's a grey area I'd guess. More importantly, how much money can you possibly make doing this? I can't imagine it's worth the time, unless you're really, really struggling. & if you're struggling that much, finding a part time job so you don't have to hussle so much, makes sense to me
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  • You are really just the middleman, there's nothing wrong with that. But you shouldn't use images from someone's gig on Fiverr as you could run into copyright problems. Also its good to put a disclaimer somewhere that you outsource the logos.
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  • Profile picture of the author Dave O
    Thanks for the input everyone.

    I contacted several sellers on Fiverr and about half gave me permission to use their sample images.
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  • Profile picture of the author mich800
    Can I open a fast food joint and put a McDonalds sign by the road? I will sell them a hamburger but I didn't specificlly say it would be a McDonalds burger.
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  • Profile picture of the author safrasolutions
    I am of the opinion that so long as you have contacted the providers on Fiverr and asked permission to use their images to sell their services, then you are definitely in the clear and I would feel no need mentioning this to the clients you find on Craigslist. Now if the client asks if you will be making these yourself, you are obligated to let them know you outsource the work. This stuff is pretty simple.
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  • Profile picture of the author jeffs89
    I had a horrible time getting clients on craigslist too.. maybe it's time to try paid traffic
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