Give me your opinion about a client behavior

25 replies
Hi Guys,

I have an issue, that´s not really an issue, but more an ethical issue.

This was what happened one client of mine had a PayPal yearly subscription active that he paid in the first year, then when there was the renewal for the second year the payment was processed. After 24 hours my client opens in the PP resolution center a claim for unauthorized payment.

After that I have explained PayPal this was a renewal from a client that paid the subscription one year ago, so it could not be an unauthorized payment, but a renewal that he did not wanted anymore, but he had one year to cancel it.

Then he lost the claim and contacted me about why i forced him to pay... Well, I told him how did a subscription work, and also explained to him that in the first day of the subscription that he could cancel the subscription anytime, so he was not misled.

Then he pushed a bit more to get a refund. Well, my website, its clear about subscription renewals that we don´t refund renewals.

So i told him that he will will a credit of the amount to use in any service that i provide if he does not want to use the service he renewed.

Ethically speaking am I wrong here? Sincerely I don´t think so.

Let me know what do you guys think about this.
#behavior #client #give #opinion
  • Profile picture of the author nmwf
    The real question is why you're refusing to refund the guy. What's the big deal? As of right now, you left a bad taste in his mouth and he's probably hitting every forum and blog that he can just to warn others against doing business with you.
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    • Profile picture of the author morg2k2
      Well,

      We are not talking about pennies, but I would not have any issue to refund if this was not a Yearly Renewal since he had 1 year to cancel it, besides i have my website ToS to support me.

      But what sincerely pissed me was the fact that he did not talk with me about it and opened a claim with PayPal, so his attitude was not good at all.
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  • Profile picture of the author nmwf
    Look. This is an old payment strategy that has pissed off numerous customers because they didn't understand the TOS or even read the thing. Even I'm confused.

    Are you actually saying that if a person doesn't cancel your service within the first year, s/he can't cancel it ever??
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    • Profile picture of the author morg2k2
      Originally Posted by nmwf View Post

      Look. This is an old payment strategy that has pissed off numerous customers because they didn't understand the TOS or even read the thing. Even I'm confused.

      Are you actually saying that if a person doesn't cancel your service within the first year, s/he can't cancel it ever??
      No,

      What i said it´s during the length of the billing cycle the client can cancel anytime, what i was trying to say was if the client did not want to renew for the 2nd year he had 365 days to cancel it, if he did not and its renewed then he can cancel it anytime during the 2nd year or the 3rd, 4th... Whatever he decides to.
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      • Profile picture of the author morg2k2
        Thanks guys, I am going to think about it and decide accordingly.
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  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    Originally Posted by morg2k2 View Post

    I have an issue, that´s not really an issue, but more an ethical issue.
    You have me confused here. Is it an issue or not? Please make up your mind.

    Legally you are right, but whenever you have such long subscription
    periods always send out a reminder that the payment is coming due
    a few days before, so give customers a chance to cancel. You can
    keep that payment but you'll lose the goodwill of a former customer.
    Take a pick.

    I've had the same issue except that no claim was made to PayPal but
    the customer claim to forget and wanted a refund and I issued it.
    (And that was a real issue.)

    But I am with you that he should have not opened a claim with PayPal
    before contacting you.

    -Ray Edwards
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Ethically speaking am I wrong here?
      I think you are wrong from a customer service standpoint. We've seen so many posts on this forum where people have no idea HOW to cancel a subscription in Paypal...with a year long subscription many people don't understand the "renewable" aspect. You may be clear about it - but they don't read all the fine print.

      It that the customer's 'fault'? Of course it is. Technically, you can keep the money ...but when I hear of someone who does that in business...I make note of them and I don't do business with them myself.

      This kind of business practice can line your pockets and ruin your reputation. Something to keep in mind.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve B
    Originally Posted by morg2k2 View Post

    Ethically speaking am I wrong here? Let me know what do you guys think about this.

    morg2k2,

    It's an everyday occurrence that people forget that a subscription renewal is about to happen and their CC will be billed.

    Most likely the problem could have been defused had you sent a reminder 3 weeks in advance that the guy's subscription was coming to an end and that he would be re-billed "X amount" on "date of charge."

    No, technically, you don't have to do this. It's just smart business sense to warn a customer when an impending charge is going to happen so he has time to opt out if he doesn't want to continue. If you truly do offer a way to cancel the subscription "at any time" then this should be no big deal.

    If you are hoping that people will forget that they are being charged so the billing flies through . . . that's not the way to keep your customers happy.

    I say the problem is with your lack of communication and your unwillingness to reverse a charge when your customer no longer finds your service valuable enough to continue.

    Sorry, and yes, the customer should know that the charge is coming . . . but really . . . how many things like this slip by our daily radar. Avoid CC charge surprises if you want to keep customers happy.

    Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author morg2k2
    Steve,

    My goal is never to mislead clients, never was and never will be.
    What i think its people are responsible for their commitments, so they should cancel if they don´t believe the service does not provide value.

    Thanks
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    • Profile picture of the author webmarketer
      Give him the refund. People forget about one-year automatic renewals. People are responsible for their commitments, but that does not mean they cannot change their minds or they cannot forget. Why put him through the wringer?

      Refund the money.
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  • Profile picture of the author Lance K
    Good grief, quit thinking about it and issue the refund.

    Look, I get being upset that he opened a dispute with PayPal before coming to you. But let it go. Maybe he genuinely didn't recognize the payment.

    I'd issue the refund, apologize for the misunderstanding, and ask if he would be willing to do an exit interview of sorts so I could figure out how to improve my service and hopefully improve my stick rate so things like this don't happen in the future.
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    • Profile picture of the author Bigpanda
      I would have given him the refund. Odds are he didn't recognize the bill, it was a whole year later after all.

      I'd suggest giving them their refund and making things right. I would never hold a customer to a payment that is under 48 hours, if they want it refunded.

      Is it easy to cancel on your site or do they have to call? Also is it easy to contact you in general such as a combination of phone and email support?

      Good rule of thumb is the customer is always right, even when they are not. This type of mindset keeps customers happy.

      -BigPanda
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  • Profile picture of the author Brent Stangel
    If they are paying for a year in advance then you lose nothing by refunding.

    If you refuse, you gain some ill will and maybe some bad "press."

    To me, it's a no-brainer.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    Nobody is going to ever remember a 1 year renewal. Not everyone checks old email inboxes either.

    Refund.
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    Hi
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  • Profile picture of the author morg2k2
    thanks guys.
    You have convinced me I was pissed not for the money itself, but for the PayPal issue.

    Also will be a mark.... My first subscriber that canceled from a 400 base. So my stick rate will decrease to 99.75%

    But you guys are right about it.

    thanks,
    Morg
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    • Profile picture of the author yukon
      Banned
      Originally Posted by morg2k2 View Post

      thanks guys.
      You have convinced me I was pissed not for the money itself, but for the PayPal issue.

      Also will be a mark.... My first subscriber that canceled from a 400 base. So my stick rate will decrease to 99.75%

      But you guys are right about it.

      thanks,
      Morg
      $100 out of $40K isn't going to break the bank.

      Is this the 1 year anniversary of your 1 year renewal for the service/product? I'm surprised only one refund.

      Keep in mind some folks live paycheck to paycheck & overdraft fees are about $30 a pop If Paypal auto draws from a bank account.

      Karma...
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      • Profile picture of the author morg2k2
        Originally Posted by yukon View Post

        $100 out of $40K isn't going to break the bank.

        Is this the 1 year anniversary of your 1 year renewal for the service/product? I'm surprised only one refund.

        Keep in mind some folks live paycheck to paycheck & overdraft fees are about $30 a pop If PayPal auto draws from a bank account.

        Karma...
        Well, this service has 3 years now, and the stick rate is really high, because the service is really good and also because who work with us need this badly!

        On the other hand, my team gives an awesome support.
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    • Profile picture of the author Lance K
      Originally Posted by morg2k2 View Post

      Also will be a mark.... My first subscriber that canceled from a 400 base. So my stick rate will decrease to 99.75%
      That's great. Even more reason not to put your reputation on the line over one customer dispute. With that track record, I'd issue the refund even if the guy was a complete prick and/or simply trying to game the system. Focus on the good, let go of the bad. Glad to hear you're going to issue the refund.
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  • Profile picture of the author hannahlist
    Don't get so fixated about saving PENNIES when DOLLARS are on the line.

    Your brand is your most PRECIOUS asset.

    It is WORTH PROTECTING.

    If it takes refunding one person, so be it.

    Make sure you see the forest from the trees or your business might quickly COLLAPSE.
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Do the right thing and just give the guy his Money back. Even if he is in the wrong.

      It will be less a headache for you and put you in a better light


      - Robert Andrew
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  • Profile picture of the author safrasolutions
    Yes refund him and move on. Not worth making him angry and have him bad mouthing you all over the place. Like somebody else said, you should issue payment reminders a few days before you bill them again for a second year.
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  • Profile picture of the author fantrom
    This is a no brainer... you know what you need to do.

    Do it. Do it now.

    REFUND.
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    • Profile picture of the author morg2k2
      This has been solved.

      Thanks for all your input.

      Regards.
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Originally Posted by morg2k2 View Post

        This has been solved.

        Thanks for all your input.

        Regards.
        Get used to it. People will respond to your first post without even reading/scanning the rest of the thread.

        Some because they really just want to drop a signature.

        Some because they have a gut reaction to questions like this.

        BTW, you're far from the first to ask this, and over the years the answers have been uniformly the same.

        You made the right decision, The karma wheel turns slowly sometimes, but when it does, it grinds fine...
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  • Profile picture of the author leilani
    I too have forgotten about one year subscription renewals. However, I majority of the time I would ask for a refund and was not refused.

    You won the dispute according to Paypal. However, by you asking on this forum, you are unsure whether to refund or keep the money.

    Ultimately after all this discussion, the decision will be yours and yours alone to make. Make a decision. Indecision is not a good place to be,

    Just sharing,

    Leilani
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