"Is it Time to 'Bury' Internet Marketing Formulas for ... Flexibility"? Your Opinion Please.

23 replies
One of the most asked questions in this forum are the ones that deal with formulas in some shape form or fashion.
  • What's the best way to?
  • What's the least way to?
  • What's the easiest way to?
  • What's the fastest way to?
  • What's a guaranteed way to?
  • What program would you choose?
  • What would you do if you had ___X__ Dollars?

Nothing evil about them in and of itself, other than I noticed most people use them more as a crutch than a starting point.

I see more and more marketers following the rules or formulas, but nothing happens. Most are getting low sales or even no sales. Despite building a list, targeting the right keywords, choosing a good niche, and other basics that would allow the money to start rolling in like they were told.

The best football coaches can make adjustments and adaptations in the course of a game, rather than sticking with set formulas. I believe the best Internet Marketers must do the same, unfortunately it's one of the missing links no one talks about.

In fact, I believe it will be an even bigger requirement as competition grows, market changes happen faster, and prospect choices skyrocket. So, if you're stuck in the formula rut, resistant to change or in the " there's nothing new comfort zone" ...you're an endangered species.

Yet, most so-called success programs, books and membership sites still tout a one size fits all, my way or the highway formula that's outdated in this fast changing marketplace, in my opinion.

No one teaches how to adapt, adjust or remain flexible in relation to the formulas.

Does that need to change? Does this signal a market opportunity?

Your thoughts, comments or disagreements welcome, I learn from them all.
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#bury #flexibility #formulas #internet #marketing #opinion #time
  • Profile picture of the author Brent Stangel
    Your thoughts, comments or disagreements welcome, I learn from them all.
    It's the innovators who succeed.

    Make it better, faster, cheaper, or all of the above.

    One of the main objections I have to "teaching" is - I don't do it like everyone else. Or anyone else for that matter.

    I suggest you DO try to "re-invent the wheel."
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    • Profile picture of the author The Niche Man
      Originally Posted by Brent Stangel View Post


      I suggest you DO try to "re-invent the wheel."
      Or at least try to make it faster, stronger, last longer, more affordable, easier to repair, adaptable to more uses, lighter, thicker or more scalable, etc.

      But of course you'll still have people saying all the good ideas are taken or it's hard to come up with anymore good ideas for the wheel (sigh).

      Originally Posted by nmwf View Post

      I think one thing that would help is a disclaimer for all these "formulas" -- a disclaimer that admits results depend on a number of specifics.
      Ha,ha, that would take pair of steel b*lls to do other than the tiny writing in the bottom of ads like most weight loss ads are forced to do.

      Originally Posted by quadagon View Post

      Generally agree with you post op.

      I would however say the analagy is more like a rookie qb who's only learned one play. He can't call an audible at the line so either takes the sack or tries to make the play.
      Good point, there's a lot of one-play marketers. For example those who depend on Google, one form of marketing or one source of income, and they're fine with it thank you. I know, many are on my mailing list and client consulting list. I could never pry there fingers away from that security blanket. They're comfortable being a one-trick pony.

      Originally Posted by ryanbiddulph View Post

      I'll tell them to take a 2 minute icy cold shower every morning, to raise their vibe, and that raising their vibe would inspire them to write maybe 600 words a day, versus none, the few who follow my lead - taking an unconventional but highly flexible approach - would succeed.
      Hmm, interesting concept. Can't say I've ever used the cold shower technique for raising my vibe. I'd normally use cold showers when my girl friend was out of town, not because it raises my vibe, but lowers other body parts. But I may test your idea again.
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  • Profile picture of the author nmwf
    I think one thing that would help is a disclaimer for all these "formulas" -- a disclaimer that admits results depend on a number of specifics.

    There is no "best" way. There is "A" way -- A way that worked for A niche in A particular market, A particular channel, A particular budget, A particular network, and so on and so forth.

    Honestly, I see some rather bizarre advice in here that goes against the grain of everything we've known to be true. And it makes me additionally suspect of the people giving it. Because they're so adamant about their own misinformation, I can no longer assume they don't know what they're talking about. I'm literally left to believe they're being disingenuous on purpose as a way to eliminate their little competition.
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  • Profile picture of the author quadagon
    Generally agree with you post op.

    I would however say the analagy is more like a rookie qb who's only learned one play. He can't call an audible at the line so either takes the sack or tries to make the play.

    My thing is that a lot of people seem to have no grounding in selling or marketing so don't have the fundamentals in order to call an audible.

    The other skill lacking is critical thinking. People see a product launch and the backwards sales letters but ignore the massive affiliate marketing that's going on to promote the backwards sales letter.

    When they buy the shiny object they can't understand why it's not working for them. A version of Stockholm syndrome seems to kick in where they just spout out the same thing as everyone else 'build a list' 'give quality' 'you need a tripwire' etc
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  • Profile picture of the author ryanbiddulph
    Good question NM

    I've experienced this online: simple is powerful, and simple is freeing. Simple works. Create, and connect, every day, and you'll free yourself through succeeding. The X factor seems to be mindset. Most people work IM to GET money versus GIVING value and PROMOTING others. So folks usually fall flat on their face. It takes an abundant conscious, high vibing person to give before they try to get, especially when they appear to be struggling mightily, and that's why few succeed; they avoid the uncomfortable but oh so freeing personal development sessions.

    I write and publish one, 6,000 word eBook daily. For 9 weeks straight. If someone feels such a feat is impossible I'll tell them to take a 2 minute icy cold shower every morning, to raise their vibe, and that raising their vibe would inspire them to write maybe 600 words a day, versus none, the few who follow my lead - taking an unconventional but highly flexible approach - would succeed. So yep, this flexibility thing is huge because different schools of thought apply for different folks. In the same vein, the fundamentals of building prospering ventures are timeless. Just be flexible in working 'em

    Great discussion here!

    Ryan
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    • Profile picture of the author Steve B
      Niche Man,

      I agree with much that you say, but IMO . . . no, it's not time to give up and bury IM formulas for flexibility - at least not for newbies.

      Formulas help newbies learn. They can provide a generic road map. They are a simple way to diagram or represent in "shorthand" or easy to comprehend language, the basic steps needed in order to gain a particular result.

      But we need to do a better job of explaining that formulas are the bare bones, the skeleton of a process. They are not intended to be the "be all" complete never-fail guide because they don't include all the details that are so critical in IM. Too often money-making guides leave out the important everyday details.

      The problem with flexibility is that in order to make flexibility work, you have to have experience so that you know the probable outcomes of taking alternative actions. You need to know that going down a particular path is not going to get you to your desired destination. Newbies don't know those things just yet. They will learn what works and what doesn't over time and through their own experience.

      But you can't just turn a newbie loose with flexibility right in the beginning. I have always stated that the view from 40,000 feet is nice, but successful business is about executing daily all the little details on the ground that make a difference. Newbies need to learn how to do that.

      Steve
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  • Profile picture of the author marks2424
    I understand what you are saying Niche Man and think part of the problem with a formula the membership sites are teaching is they say do step one, then two then three but how many of them really explain how to do each step in great detail and say exactly why it is done that way.

    I feel having the understanding of this is what makes the top affiliates so good. Knowing exactly why something is done give them great flexibility to adapt which is that many of us don't have. I think getting in depth information to our questions is key to understand what direction we want to go. Mark
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    • Profile picture of the author quadagon
      Originally Posted by marks2424 View Post

      Knowing exactly why something is done
      Is a question no one asks its all how and what.
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    • Profile picture of the author myob
      People seem to continually fall for magic formulas, because they are not grounded in the underlying fundamentals of business. We see this over and over again for example SOS (shiny object syndrome) found in WSOs. There are perhaps hundreds of thousands of effective formulas (ie tactics, strategies, systems, etc) which are flexible and dynamically changing rapidly, but there are a few very basic and time-proven marketing principles, or fundamentals that have remained the same for many decades.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tom Addams
    You took the words right out of my mouth, The Niche Man. Or is that my fingers? Either way, my words? Right out of somewhere.

    I agree with almost every point.

    Originally Posted by The Niche Man View Post

    No one teaches how to adapt, adjust or remain flexible in relation to the formulas.
    I must disagree here.

    Originally Posted by The Niche Man View Post

    Does that need to change? Does this signal a market opportunity?
    It does. It does.

    Internet marketing is dynamic. Therefore internet marketers must be equally dynamic. Flexible. Must roll with the punches. It's all very logical. And standard practice, I would hope, for most of us.

    Brent brings up a good point:

    Originally Posted by Brent Stangel View Post

    It's the innovators who succeed.
    Although I would change "succeed" to survive.

    - Tom
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  • Profile picture of the author discrat
    I think you hit it on the Roy, nail.

    The Internet itself and technology is ALWAYS changing.... it seems like every few months

    Therefore the 'Adapt or Die' mentality has never been so true!


    - Robert Andrew
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  • Profile picture of the author Mark Singletary
    I'll give an example of a "proven" and "tested" formula that I've talked about here: the necessity and success of emailing your list every day or more.

    Some, otherwise smart marketers, claim they have tested frequencies and every day or more is a proven winner. When I push back and ask if they tested it for 30 days there is never a response. Why? Because they haven't done it. They aren't going to waste 29 days waiting to push their ads out for this test.

    So is it a proven formula and the best way - the end all and be all that is tested and proven as claimed? Or are other smart marketers that have successful lists that only mail every 3 or 4 weeks the real winners here? Or what about once a week or twice a month? Newbies, unfortunately, will have a hard time ever finding out because of how loudly most everyone screams this.

    So now you have newbies quoting someone else's flawed testing as justification for daily emails.

    Marketing is full of these formulas. Many really are proven but many have become so commonplace that no one really knows why they do it anymore except that it's been "tested" and "just works". For example, if my price ends in 3 it is all wrong according to the 7 crowd. But did they test a 3 or did they just blindly believe the formula that says 7 is best?

    Education on the principles of marketing (not so much the tactics) is what is needed and can start from the get go if the subject is willing to get past the shiny objects and all the hows and get to the whys.

    Mark
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  • Profile picture of the author Mehdib
    It is a good point you are making, but remember there is a reason that these formulas exist. Of course there os no ONE way to do everything but standardisation is a good work to help more people at the same time. Why these standards exists though? They are created by companies and authorities and once in a while they are changed or the whole method changes, this causes the new methods to do the same job easier and faster but then again there will be the same questions asked.
    I agree that the new era of marketing is all about flexibility and innovation but does everyone afford to do it?
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    • Profile picture of the author The Niche Man
      Originally Posted by Mehdib View Post

      It is a good point you are making, but remember there is a reason that these formulas exist. Of course there os no ONE way to do everything but standardisation is a good work to help more people at the same time. Why these standards exists though? They are created by companies and authorities and once in a while they are changed or the whole method changes, this causes the new methods to do the same job easier and faster but then again there will be the same questions asked.
      I agree that the new era of marketing is all about flexibility and innovation but does everyone afford to do it?
      Good point, I guess I'm not against formulas par se'. But how people blindly stick with them when they're no longer effective. Like continuing to use or do the same formula and expecting different results.

      Like the many Gurus who sell formulas or tactics to you after they've made the bulk of the money from them. Plus, thousands or millions may now be working the "secrets tactics" or formulas until they are no longer a secret. But no one allows for this change (in relation to adjustments/flexibilities or adaptations) and blames themselves or keeps trying to make the overworked formula work. This sad case is played out in I.M constantly.
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  • Profile picture of the author nmwf
    Off topic: I found your newletter! HA HA Haaaaaaaaaaa!

    (And I subscribed cuz I'd be looney not to! :-)
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  • Profile picture of the author Randall Magwood
    Originally Posted by The Niche Man View Post

    Your thoughts, comments or disagreements welcome, I learn from them all.
    Take these questions and modify them *slightly*, and the internet marketing formulas become HIGHLY relevant:

    • What's the best way to PAY RANDALL MAGWOOD?
    • What's the least way to WORSHIP RANDALL MAGWOOD?
    • What's the easiest way to PAY RANDALL MAGWOOD?
    • What's the fastest way to PAY RANDALL MAGWOOD?
    • What's a guaranteed way to PAY RANDALL MAGWOOD?
    • What program would you choose to PAY RANDALL MAGWOOD?
    • What would you do if you had ___X__ Dollars to PAY RANDALL MAGWOOD?
    I love these formulas.
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Originally Posted by Randall Magwood View Post

      Take these questions and modify them *slightly*, and the internet marketing formulas become HIGHLY relevant:

      • What's the best way to PAY RANDALL MAGWOOD?
      • What's the least way to WORSHIP RANDALL MAGWOOD?
      • What's the easiest way to PAY RANDALL MAGWOOD?
      • What's the fastest way to PAY RANDALL MAGWOOD?
      • What's a guaranteed way to PAY RANDALL MAGWOOD?
      • What program would you choose to PAY RANDALL MAGWOOD?
      • What would you do if you had ___X__ Dollars to PAY RANDALL MAGWOOD?
      I love these formulas.
      I luv that name, Randall Magwood
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  • Profile picture of the author jamescanz
    Originally Posted by The Niche Man View Post


    No one teaches how to adapt, adjust or remain flexible in relation to the formulas.
    I wouldn't say no one teaches it...

    As that's the type of thing that usually comes with some type of coaching.
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    • Profile picture of the author The Niche Man
      Originally Posted by Randall Magwood View Post

      Take these questions and modify them *slightly*, and the internet marketing formulas become HIGHLY relevant:

      • What's the best way to PAY RANDALL MAGWOOD?
      • What's the least way to WORSHIP RANDALL MAGWOOD?
      • What's the easiest way to PAY RANDALL MAGWOOD?
      • What's the fastest way to PAY RANDALL MAGWOOD?
      • What's a guaranteed way to PAY RANDALL MAGWOOD?
      • What program would you choose to PAY RANDALL MAGWOOD?
      • What would you do if you had ___X__ Dollars to PAY RANDALL MAGWOOD?
      I love these formulas.
      Ha, ha ... and I'm sure you'd agree no adjustments, adaptation or flexibility required. Right?


      Originally Posted by jamescanz View Post

      I wouldn't say no one teaches it...

      As that's the type of thing that usually comes with some type of coaching.
      Yes, you're probably right when it comes to personal coaching, provided they not only have the knowledge themselves, but the skills and patience to teach you, not all do. When it comes to showing you how or where to adapt, adjust or improvise, that's a skill in itself.

      But I was referring mostly to books, programs and systems that people learn on their own. I noticed this many years ago, that's why I make it a point to not only put information, tips and facts in my books, but include a chapter on how to adapt, adjust and improvise when necessary.

      I'm sure doing that probably affects back-end sales. The readers simply follow the advice on how to adapt and adjust to any changes that take place. So, most don't have to buy an updated version over and over to stay current. But I'm O.K with that for now.
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      • Profile picture of the author myob
        Originally Posted by The Niche Man View Post

        No one teaches how to adapt, adjust or remain flexible in relation to the formulas.

        Originally Posted by jamescanz View Post

        I wouldn't say no one teaches it...

        As that's the type of thing that usually comes with some type of coaching.
        But most of this so-called "coaching" is deeply flawed, especially from what I've seen in much of the posts and even WSOs here on the forum over the past few years. As a life-long student and mentor in marketing, I use the WF and WSOs for supplemental coaching as case studies for my own in-house staff and marketing contractors. The time-proven underlying marketing fundamentals are often drowned out by incomplete or what I consider "nonsense" formulas.

        As I alluded in my earlier post, the main problem with such marketing "formulas" (including tactics, strategies, systems, etc) is they often fail to address the very basic principles of marketing. For example, any "formula" needs to address one or more of the following to target a market effectively:

        A - attention (awareness): attract the attention of the customer.
        I - interest of the customer.
        D - desire: convince customers that they want and desire the product or service and that it will satisfy their needs.
        A - action: lead customers towards taking action and/or purchasing.


        The "formula" also must be part of a larger cohesive engagement process which continually hits these steps, represented by the acronym AIDA, until the desired action (usually a purchase) is accomplished. This is one example of a classic and proven marketing model, which now is often referred to as a "purchase funnel".

        Although there has been changes in technology and current thinking regarding methods of advertising effectiveness, this "purchase funnel" IMO should at least be considered in all marketing formulas, tactics, strategies, and systems.

        Flexibility and adaption to market conditions is always necessary, but ignoring or ignorance of the underlying fundamentals is perhaps the leading cause of marketing failure.
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      • Profile picture of the author Randall Magwood
        Originally Posted by The Niche Man View Post

        Ha, ha ... and I'm sure you'd agree no adjustments, adaptation or flexibility required. Right?
        Fa sho! LOL
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  • Profile picture of the author esmarshall
    well said niche man

    i think everyones just different
    its been proven many times that 2 people can conduct the same experiment and get different results
    so doesnt matter what stuff you follow, you still have to "make it your own"..so to speak
    i actually mentioned this in my first book a while back
    too many people get caught up in the little tips and tricks of earning some easy money
    instead of WHY these elements are important in marketing
    almost all of these marketing principles have been around for decades and are still effective til this very day
    but alot of people never take the time to learn the intricate workings of marketing
    so how can you ever adapt or even innovate when you dont fully understand the objective

    hope that made sense
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