ClickBank soon requiring ALL sales pages to have a ClickBank branded header.

959 replies
ClickBank will soon be requiring all of their vendor sales pages to have ClickBank's own branded header at the top of every sales page.

Here's what it will look like...



They're calling it the "Always on Shopping Portal" and you can read full details here.

What are your thoughts?

Here are a few of my thoughts and concerns...

1.) Having ClickBank's Customer Support link at the top of the page could make refunds much easier, possibly too easy when ClickBank is handling the tickets. Apparently customers will have a choice to contact the vendor or ClickBank. This could be good for customers and what's good for customers is usually good for the vendor in the long run.

2.) Technical issues of various kinds. Having your page in an iFrame can break things, cause issues with analytics, etc. I know ClickBank is hard at work on this though, so I'd suspect any of these issues will subside and be resolved. After all ClickBank wants to make more sales, not less.

3.) The look of my website. Now I will have a logo on top of a logo, that will look really odd. I guess I'll have to redesign it. This could be confusing to visitors and more challenging for branding your own site and sales page.

4.) As time goes on I question if people will immediately see and recognize a ClickBank site and immediately feel like it's trying to sell them something.

5.) ClickBank is testing this branded bar, but I wonder if they'll test it over the long-term and how it will perform 6 months, 1 year, 2 years from now.

6.) Although this is speculation, in the future ClickBank could in theory easily add anything they want to this branded bar. A link to other products, a drop-down menu to their marketplace, whatever they want.

7.) SEO - I guess if your sales page is in an iFrame only when people go through a hoplink you could still SEO the main page and rank for your domain. I'm not clear exactly how ClickBank is implementing the iFrame or javascript code and still have some unanswered questions.

8.) The advantages they stated with this new type of setup are they'll be able to do a streamlined near one-click checkout for repeat customers, and MUCH better analytics, sales page ROI, better funnel insights etc. In addition they can provide some insights when past ClickBank customers land on your page. Some REALLY AWESOME stuff from the sound of it. All of these benefits could be achieved with invisible code though, but it sounds like the branded bar is necessary and coming whether we like it or not.

I suppose the one biggest advantage is ClickBank remains in business. According to them "credit card companies and payment processors are scrutinizing Internet retailers and the quality of products on their platforms". There may be no way around this for ClickBank and this could just be the future of things to come. With change can come opportunity, so I'm looking forward to see how this all plays out.
#always on shopping portal #branded #clickbank #header #pages #requiring #sales #sales page #thoughts
  • Profile picture of the author Digital Hustle
    Initial thoughts, I don't care for it. If I had it my way their branding wouldn't even be on the checkout page.

    I don't think it will make a huge difference in relation to sales. Assuming they leave it as proposed, it will just lead to more awareness that the product is being sold through a "marketplace." Maybe that will provide an ounce of credibility to first-time visitors to a Clickbank-sold product. Or maybe not, depending on which way their research goes and if they run into any Clickbank horror stories. ;-)
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10272199].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author dlane1987
    Not a fan. Won't people just go with JVZoo
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10272561].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author morg2k2
      Each time these giants want to change they normally go forward to increase their own brand awareness and leaving less and less power for their sellers.

      Personally, I donĀ“t like it either and would suggest you to move to a different platform, like JV Zoo for instance.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10272566].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Tom Addams
    Ah.

    I can only imagine that CB intend to dilute the quality of their marketplace with inferior products and services. If so, a stroke of genius.

    - Tom
    Signature

    I Coach: Learn More | My Latest WF Thread: Dead Domains/ Passive Traffic
    Learn one way I earn money: I give away free stuff.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10272737].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Brent Stangel
    6.) Although this is speculation, in the future ClickBank could in theory easily add anything they want to this branded bar. A link to other products, a drop-down menu to their marketplace, whatever they want.
    Already in place?

    The ClickBank header is present at the top of all vendor pages, order forms, and thank you pages. It provides a consistent shopping experience for customers with easy access to customer support. The navigation element selected in the header allows the customer to interact with the function directly on the page. The customer will not navigate away from the shopping flow, instead a separate browser window will open or a drop down menu will appear.
    https://support.clickbank.com/entrie...opping-Portal-

    Given the rise of fraud in the performance marketing space, credit card companies and payment processors are scrutinizing Internet retailers and the quality of products on their platforms.
    Bullshit!!

    CB is moving toward an Ebay like platform. Your product will eventually have links to "related" products, "Here's what other buyers bought," and all the rest.

    They are struggling to stay alive...
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10272774].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Sid Hale
      Originally Posted by Brent Stangel View Post

      Given the rise of fraud in the performance marketing space, credit card companies and payment processors are scrutinizing Internet retailers and the quality of products on their platforms.
      Bullshit!!
      spin??? LOL

      They are struggling to stay alive...
      From other threads here on the WF, it sounded like they were seriously trying to cull out the garbage products from the marketplace, and this move (IMHO) is going to make that job easier for them.

      Quality vendors will go elsewhere voluntarily, and CB can then cull everything else that is left.

      Done... and done!
      Signature

      Sid Hale
      Coming Soon... Rapid Action Profits (Pro)

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10273010].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author professorrosado
        That's a potential outcome, however, it may be more prudent to adapt.

        I personally, wouldn't like the "look" of a regular website underneath that banner UNLESS the site is made to harmonize with the banner either in sameness or as a contrast.

        All others, should think about using the commonplace "sales page" format which simply integrates nicely with this implementation.

        I believe that Clickbank is trying to survive and that vendors should fall in line with their effort as it just may work! And if it does, I would sure want to be part of that success story.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10273039].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Harvey Segal
          Some thoughts:

          1. One big advantage: ClickBank could provide vendors with stats (hits and conversion rate) on their own sales as these are currently only available for affiliate sales.

          2. If the vendor does not make the changes (by November 23) the account will be suspended - but from the Marketplace only. I wonder if there will be a later deadline in which the account is actually closed.

          3. A drawback: the appearance of the vendor-id in the branded ClickBank domain name will make it easier for someone to construct a hoplink and purchase with their own affiliate id.

          4. In theory it is not necessary for the vendor to add the header to the thank-you page as ClickBank can do it for you (as it will do in the first phase). Maybe this is to allow vendors the future possibility of having variations (e.g colour, style) in the header ?

          5. Mention has been made of a possible link to the marketplace in the header. This makes no sense at all with the marketplace in its current form as it is geared to affiliates. I am not sure why ClickBank don't provide a customer marketplace cutting out the stats information and allowing vendors to provide separate titles and descriptions for customers. (Current titles say for example - 'Earn 75% for this dog training book')

          If a link to the marketplace is shown and the vendor-id is used as the affiliate then this could prove profitable as the vendor could earn commission on sales of any product in the marketplace (a bit like Amazon)

          However for an affiliate this would effectively be a 'sales leak'. Maybe a compromise could be provided whereby vendor and affiliate share the commission on such marketplace purchases.

          .
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10273924].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author omnituens
            Originally Posted by Harvey Segal View Post

            Some thoughts:

            .....................

            If a link to the marketplace is shown and the vendor-id is used as the affiliate then this could prove profitable as the vendor could earn commission on sales of any product in the marketplace (a bit like Amazon)

            However for an affiliate this would effectively be a 'sales leak'. Maybe a compromise could be provided whereby vendor and affiliate share the commission on such marketplace purchases.
            ........................

            .
            Have had a quick look at this, the affiliate id is not propagated through to the sales page......

            Would be interesting to know what happens on vendor side...
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10294826].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Sid Hale
          Originally Posted by professorrosado View Post

          I believe that Clickbank is trying to survive and that vendors should fall in line with their effort as it just may work! And if it does, I would sure want to be part of that success story.
          I've been self-employed for over 3 decades now, and have NEVER made a business decision based on "it just may work". Especially when the gamble depended on the execution of someone else's business strategy!

          This move won't directly impact vendors for any given sale, they'll still get paid.

          But... I fully expect that affiliate referrals will definitely be impacted negatively and they are the primary source of traffic to the ClickBank offers. Reduced affiliate traffic will translate to fewer sales - period! ClickBank doesn't actively market those products themselves, and their marketplace is used to recruit more affiliates (i.e. competition), rather than to sell the vendor's products.

          The new header (if it contains any links whatsoever) is essentially a "leak" on the sales page, and no affiliate that values his/her traffic is going to send that traffic to a leaky sales page. There's really no need to wait to see if it "just might work" as long as there are products available from less invasive affiliate platforms.
          Signature

          Sid Hale
          Coming Soon... Rapid Action Profits (Pro)

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10287508].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
            Originally Posted by MilesBaker View Post

            4.) As time goes on I question if people will immediately see and recognize a ClickBank site and immediately feel like it's trying to sell them something.
            Huh?

            Maybe because, if it's a CB site (sales page with a buy button) it IS trying to sell them something?

            You mean the full-volume, autoplay video with no controls, the big red headline and the big orange BUY button are too subtle?

            Yeesh...
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10288360].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author webmarketer
              Lol--"It is designed to sit unobtrusively at the top of vendor pages."

              https://support.clickbank.com/entrie...opping-Portal-

              Above the fold and the first thing seen. Yeah, unobtrusive.

              You already pay them a fee and you still have to advertise them. [Insert snicker here.]
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10288391].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author paulie888
                I think this is only going to negatively impact Clickbank's overall revenue.

                I don't think this change will sit well with affiliates, who are the primary source of traffic to Clickbank offers. Vendors will feel like they don't really control the branding on their sales pages anymore.

                It's going to be interesting to see how Clickbank's business will be impacted by this change over the coming months.


                Originally Posted by webmarketer View Post

                Lol--"It is designed to sit unobtrusively at the top of vendor pages."

                https://support.clickbank.com/entrie...opping-Portal-

                Above the fold and the first thing seen. Yeah, unobtrusive.

                You already pay them a fee and you still have to advertise them. [Insert snicker here.]
                Signature
                >>> Features Jason Fladlien, John S. Rhodes, Justin Brooke, Sean I. Mitchell, Reed Floren and Brad Gosse! <<<
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10294906].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author SunilTanna
                  I received an email today telling me it's live, and that I should add the code as soon as possible. Oddly this email referred to the previous emails they have sent me on the subject.

                  I have never received any previous emails on the subject.

                  The only reason I knew about this is Miles Baker's ClickScoop FB group (which by the way you should join if interested in ClickBank) and then his post in the Warriorforum.

                  I've already said about how much I am opposed to this change, even if it worked smoothly as intended. So I won't repeat myself, just to say, after more than 15 years with ClickBank, and probably referring several hundred of vendors to them, I'm sorry to say that I am now planning to move my main product (which is non-IM related) over to another platform. What a pity.
                  Signature
                  ClickBank Vendor?
                  - Protect Your Thank You Pages & Downloads
                  - Give Your Affiliates Multiple Landing Pages (Video Demo)
                  - Killer Graphics for Your Site
                  SPECIAL WSO PRICES FOR WARRIORS + GET THE "CLICKBANK DISCOUNT" TOO!
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10294924].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author stevenjcampbell
              Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

              Huh?

              Maybe because, if it's a CB site (sales page with a buy button) it IS trying to sell them something?

              You mean the full-volume, autoplay video with no controls, the big red headline and the big orange BUY button are too subtle?

              Yeesh...
              Hold on there cowboy. You make good points, but have you ever seen those landing pages that funnel them through 2 or more different pages to the finals buying button?

              They often times aren't obnoxious and provide a ton of data.

              Maybe I'm mistaken, but if this bar is on all lagespages, yes it is an issue
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10288719].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author SunilTanna
                The fallout is going to be major if they go through with this.

                I don't think the word has spread that widely yet - I believe most vendors don't know about it yet - but I am already aware of several vendors who are looking of switching platform.

                I'll wait and see for now - but I'm potentially ready to move my main CB product over to another platform too. I don't really want to, but the bar on every page is a potential deal breaker too, and especially if they use it to market related products.

                I hope they reconsider.
                Signature
                ClickBank Vendor?
                - Protect Your Thank You Pages & Downloads
                - Give Your Affiliates Multiple Landing Pages (Video Demo)
                - Killer Graphics for Your Site
                SPECIAL WSO PRICES FOR WARRIORS + GET THE "CLICKBANK DISCOUNT" TOO!
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10288733].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
                Originally Posted by stevenjcampbell View Post

                Hold on there cowboy. You make good points, but have you ever seen those landing pages that funnel them through 2 or more different pages to the finals buying button?

                They often times aren't obnoxious and provide a ton of data.

                Maybe I'm mistaken, but if this bar is on all lagespages, yes it is an issue
                My jibe was at the wording of one point, that people landing on a page might get the idea that there was something for sale.

                People are not stupid. Well, not all of them, anyway. They'll accept "I'm going to show you some neat stuff, stuff you want to know, and then I'm going to make you an offer."

                Whether it's a long form sales letter, webinar, email course, or something else, people realize that the person providing it isn't doing so purely from the goodness of their heart. Even charities have a motive - to get into your pocket and stay there forever.

                As to some of the other objections raised, I see the points and agree with them. (non-control of content, leak from page, etc.)
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10290297].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author greenbay92
            Originally Posted by Sid Hale View Post

            The new header (if it contains any links whatsoever) is essentially a "leak" on the sales page, and no affiliate that values his/her traffic is going to send that traffic to a leaky sales page. There's really no need to wait to see if it "just might work" as long as there are products available from less invasive affiliate platforms.
            This has the potential to create chaos if wrongly done. Which is why CB needs to implement their banner code seamlessly so that there are no hoplink tracking errors.

            I know from past experience that tiny technical factors (like incorrect code and glitchy scripts) can cause epic fails in on-page function. So I hope for the sake of sanity that CB's programmers have done their homework... because it is critical for the continued involvement of affiliates with their platform.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10288420].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Curtis2011
    Looks like Clickbank is only doing this for legal reasons. I can't imagine how a Clickbank logo at the top of a sales page will ever help conversion rates.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10272828].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Kiwigal
      Originally Posted by Curtis2011 View Post

      Looks like Clickbank is only doing this for legal reasons. I can't imagine how a Clickbank logo at the top of a sales page will ever help conversion rates.
      If they are doing it for legal reasons how come JVZoo and others aren't?
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10272865].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Sid Hale
        Because, unlike JVZoo, RAP, W+, Digiresults, Payspree, etc... ClickBank is a RESELLER.


        Originally Posted by Kiwigal View Post

        If they are doing it for legal reasons how come JVZoo and others aren't?
        To list a product on CB, you give them Resell Rights to the product.
        You still have to provide the sales page, thank you page, and product download but if you put a ClickBank button on your page, THEY are the seller.

        Unlike the other systems listed above, ClickBank processes payment into their own Paypal and merchant accounts, and distribute funds to the vendor and to THEIR affiliate if so indicated.

        The other systems all process the payment directly to the vendor, after deducting a fee for their services.

        As the seller (as opposed to just a payment facilitator), ClickBank's liability is much greater with regard to compliance with anti-trust legislation and in particular the FTC's recent changes with regard to enforcement of disclosure requirements of that legislation.
        Signature

        Sid Hale
        Coming Soon... Rapid Action Profits (Pro)

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10272980].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
          I don't know the reasons but I'm sure there are reasons.

          CB's site has always been several steps behind available technology and that hasn't changed much that I can see.

          An example of confusion: on the main CB site - two different pages list two different people as "CEO".
          Signature

          Saving one dog will not change the world - but forever changes the world of one dog.
          ***

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10272998].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author brettb
            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

            CB's site has always been several steps behind available technology and that hasn't changed much that I can see.
            ^ Yes this. What has CB done to improve their site since 2010?
            Signature
            Need LSI Keywords? Try the Niche Laboratory keyword tool (affiliates info page here).

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10311024].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author ClickBank
              Originally Posted by brettb View Post

              ^ Yes this. What has CB done to improve their site since 2010?
              Hi brettb:

              This is a great question. Rather than give you the 5 year version which would be overwhelming, I'll just touch on some of the highlights we've released in the last year and a half:

              1. Subscription upgrades/downgrades/pause billing/reinstate billing via API: Orders API version 1.3
              2. Ability to skin the order form using CSS and images: Advanced Custom Order Forms
              3. Automatic affiliate partnership recommendations with Affiliate Finder: Affiliate Finder
              4. Free trials for recurring products and $0 + Shipping & Handling physical products
              5. Realtime client analytics (used to be about a 4 to 6 hour delay)
              6. New integrated sales reporting hooks to Facebook tracking and generic tracking/retargeting pixels: Integrated Sales Reporting
              7. Expanded commission structures ranging from 0% to 100% with flexibility for different rates on front and back end products
              8. Support for multi-line item shopping transactions (e.g., shopping cart baskets): ClickBank Multi-Line Transactions
              9. Support for selling more than one quantity per item on the order form: Editable Quantities on the Order Form
              10. Ability to sell physical products on the ClickBank platform (no longer restricted to digital only)

              This is a small sample of many new capabilities we have launched, all intended to help our clients grow their businesses.

              I hope this helps,
              The ClickBank Team
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10311581].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Jon Patrick
                Originally Posted by ClickBank View Post

                Hi brettb:

                This is a great question. Rather than give you the 5 year version which would be overwhelming, I’ll just touch on some of the highlights we’ve released in the last year and a half:
                That's what you reply to?

                Wow.

                While you're here, go ahead and explain how hijacking all of your customers' websites is necessary to address the issue of buyers being confused when they see ClickBank on their credit card statements?

                Why are you doing this instead of simply adding the product/vendor name onto the line that identifies the charge? Why aren't you trying the numerous other, far less damaging and invasive ways of addressing that problem (assuming it really is a problem)?

                Why is that problem instead being used to justify hijacking all of your customers' websites... which is ever so convenient when ClickBank is trying to be a "global internet retailer" and claiming that all of your vendors' customers are actually your customers?

                Go ahead and explain that, please. I'll wait.
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10312022].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author hitman007
        I agree, it defiantly is not for legal purposes. It's all about branding for them and with more competition raining in on them it's just to build their brand larger.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10292974].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author maxsi
    Thanks.... good info to know about Clickbank.
    I'm very happy to sell my products with SWREG (and not clickbank)
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10274021].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author DavidZin
      Originally Posted by maxsi View Post

      Thanks.... good info to know about Clickbank.
      I'm very happy to sell my products with SWREG (and not clickbank)
      where you do sell products ?
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10402834].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Randall Magwood
    Makes no difference to me. Whoever buys from an affiliate of mine i still get the customer info. That's all i want. Plus i have my own homepage to market myself. Plus there are affiliates on other affiliate networks too. The world is not about to end.
    Signature

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10274210].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author anwar001
    It would be a very dumb idea if they implement this. They are probably only thinking of their own branding but it can cause the product owners to consider going somewhere else.

    However, those product owners who already have lot of affiliates promoting their product on CB and are making good sales will be stuck and cannot leave because leaving CB will mean saying goodbye to this whole army of affiliates who are driving sales for them.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10274436].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author surfer30
    If they do so Amazon will too smile
    Signature

    Its To Your sucess in Internet Marketing When You Provide Tons of Value

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10288431].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author trevord92
    So many seemingly minor things can affect sales pages, sometimes for the better, other times for the worse.

    No idea ahead of time (otherwise there'd be no need to test).

    So a blanket addition to every single sales page - initially just those sent by an affiliate - could increase or decrease sales.

    Or could mean vendors leave Clickbank altogether, in which case it's up to affiliates to find out as there's no notification system to tell them otherwise.

    Not the brightest move from Clickbank in my view.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10288521].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Jon Patrick
    We have run hundreds of thousands of dollars in sales through ClickBank. It's mostly our own traffic. With this change, we're gone. I would understand if it only applied to the traffic coming from ClickBank's hoplinks. But forcing us to put a ClickBank branded header at the top of our website for traffic we're sending ourselves? Nope.

    This is probably a good thing for us, because we should have made the switch to a different payment processor a long time ago. ClickBank has benefited from getting a multiple of the rate any other processor would be getting from us. This was tolerated because the setup was easy and they were generally easy to live with. But they're forcing our hand here.

    When you're running a real business, you need your website to look like YOUR website, not the property of another company like ClickBank. I can't imagine sending a potential business partner to check out our website knowing another company's brand will be waiting for them.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10288544].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author JonathanG
      You nailed it with this Jon:

      Originally Posted by Jon Patrick View Post

      ... When you're running a real business, you need your website to look like YOUR website, not the property of another company like ClickBank. I can't imagine sending a potential business partner to check out our website knowing another company's brand will be waiting for them.
      Signature

      Revamped site coming soon

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10295452].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author mcjohn
    [DELETED]
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10288630].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author nicheblogger75
      Originally Posted by mcjohn View Post

      Beginning will do thank you for sharing this useful post, I think than your strategy is very good and correct!
      For my personal thoughts, I will build one big email list which will promote in it my products clickbank
      Before I comment on the Clickbank issue, I was reading the thread and I came across this post and just had to say WHAT?

      Anyway, as far as Clickbank goes, I am in full agreement that they are way behind the times as far as affiliate networks go, and I believe this is a move to increase exposure and keep them alive.

      I can only speak from my own experience but my opinion is putting their brand across the top of vendor websites is a really bad move. It has no benefit for vendors and even less for affiliates. Any affiliate worth their salt won't promote sales pages with leaks, and I would call having a big banner with their name on it at the top of the sales page a MASSIVE leak.

      Less affiliates means less traffic to the sales page which means less sales for the vendor. The end result will be the vendor leaving and the affiliates not wanting to promote those pages.

      Then again, I'm just one person with one opinion. It could be the exact opposite. It could work out great for them.

      I guess we'll just have to stand by and watch it unfold.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10292189].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author julesw
    this is crazy ... need to reconsider CB myself
    Signature
    WIN my Lanparte Smartphone or GoPro Gimbal! Get Ready Get Steady! Watch my Video Here:
    VideoHero.com/win
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10288707].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
    ClickBank has always had an odd arrangement where it is the seller of the product (which you are 'selling' to ClickBank at a wholesale price), but customers are on your site and dealing with you.

    Contrary to the first words on the explanation page, ClickBank is not viewed as a reputable company. That is why affiliates promoting ClickBank offers are banned from Google AdWords and disinvited from other places like Facebook.

    Using visible ClickBank affiliate links on your site can be the kiss of death for your SEO.

    Fraud - always a big problem in the IM niche has been increasing and ClickBank is an easy target.

    With PayPal now extending its refund period to 6 months sellers are no longer safe waiting 60 days before paying out commissions.

    ClickBank was surprisingly transparent by indicating it is being forced to make changes to address the fraud issue and problems caused by poor products (such as a high refund rate).

    Do you see any IM products being promoted on the ClickBank home page? Nope.

    The company needs to turn around its image and attract reputable products from "name" authors.

    This isn't being done to help sellers, provide stats, or anything like that. It is about company survival and there will surely be further steps to try and move ClickBank toward being a brand destination and to move some types of products off the system.

    .
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10288920].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Sid Hale
      Brian,

      I think this is "spot on".


      Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

      This isn't being done to help sellers, provide stats, or anything like that. It is about company survival and there will surely be further steps to try and move ClickBank toward being a brand destination and to move some types of products off the system.
      I think that this is only one of many steps being taken to "revamp" their entire business plan, and I think there is still more change to come (or at least should be).

      I think the transition is necessary for corporate survival/success, but I also think that the timing (frequency) of these changes will be critical to their ability to stay afloat until that transition is completed.
      Signature

      Sid Hale
      Coming Soon... Rapid Action Profits (Pro)

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10289085].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author SunilTanna
      Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

      Contrary to the first words on the explanation page, ClickBank is not viewed as a reputable company. That is why affiliates promoting ClickBank offers are banned from Google AdWords and disinvited from other places like Facebook.
      Google doesn't allow ANY affiliate links from ANY network to be advertised via Adwords. (I believe what they don't want is thousands of near-duplicate ads from multiple affiliates clogging up their system).


      They allow only sites with substantial unique content.


      Google DOES allow ClickBank *vendors* to advertise their own sites.

      Using visible ClickBank affiliate links on your site can be the kiss of death for your SEO.
      My personal experience says otherwise.

      Of course if you make a page *about* a CB offer, then thousands of others will have done so too, and it will be virtually impossible to get any organic traffic.

      But if you make a page about something else, that contains a substantial amount of unique content, then a CB link that happens to be on the page is not a significant hindrance, certainly no more than any other affiliate link.

      Also: the bar will *hinder* not help with getting CB sites to rank.



      I'd be quite okay if CB required their bar only on the Thank you page, but on the sales/pitch pages

      (a) it's a leak

      (b) it's the most valuable part of the page - why should be required to give them that, even when i'm generating 95% of the traffic myself

      (c) it's hard to enough to make the sale without putting a distraction in the most valuable part of the page

      (d) if they start advertising related offers, their idea of related offers is odd to say the least, I know it will put people off. Some offers may be inappropriate for my audience too.

      (e) it's hindrance, not a help to SEO


      Anyway, like I said, I'm not going to do anything right away, but I hope they reconsider, because if they don't, I'm probably just move my main selling product (which by the way isn't IM related at all) over to a different platform. One day that product will be on CB, next day, on a different platform.

      (the stuff that is IM/CB related, like the links in my sig, would probably get left on CB).
      Signature
      ClickBank Vendor?
      - Protect Your Thank You Pages & Downloads
      - Give Your Affiliates Multiple Landing Pages (Video Demo)
      - Killer Graphics for Your Site
      SPECIAL WSO PRICES FOR WARRIORS + GET THE "CLICKBANK DISCOUNT" TOO!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10289462].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
        Google doesn't allow ANY affiliate links from ANY network to be advertised via Adwords.
        This is not true. For years I have run dozens of affiliate direct links and many thousands of clicks via Adwords.

        But I also don't do this for anything resembling an IM, digital, or health product.

        .
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10290587].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
          ClickBank's Vice President of Product Management, recently recorded a podcast covering this change with Miles Baker of ClickScoop. In that podcast, he addresses exactly what this change entails and the reasons for it.
          The reason given by ClickBank is that new chipped cards used during physical purchases means more credit card fraud will move online. That is previously what happened in Europe.

          Example: in store fraud at WalMart goes down but online purchase fraud at WalMart.com goes up.

          Inexplicably, CB claims having the ClickBank "brand" will let consumers know they are buying from a reputable company and this will somehow address the fraud problem.

          It is a non-sequitur designed to buffalo anyone not thinking about this.

          Isn't that what the huge "Clickbank trust footer" on merchant pages supposed to accomplish?

          If the product seller or affiliate is involved with fraud having the ClickBank name on the page is irrelevant.

          ClickBank says the Javascript isn't just to load the ClickBank banner. CB is collecting data about your site, traffic, and forcing a link to CB. CB is also taking "your" customers and making more of an effort to make sure they know they are "CB's" customers.

          The logical extension of this is to have ClickBank host the sales pages so it is clear to customers they are buying from ClickBank. Additionally, it will allow CB to make use of end-to-end affiliate to sales data.

          CB is envious of Amazon, the data it collects, and customers going straight to Amazon as a trusted seller to search for products to buy. That model is where this step, the shopping cart, the ability to sell physical products, etc., is heading.

          I'm not saying this is good or bad. It will just be different. But after listening to the podcast I'm not buying the claim that online fraud is the reason why a banner and Javascript file promoting CB and feeding data to CB must be on vendor pages.

          For affiliates, I am not sure it matters.

          For sellers some already have their products on CB, and Amazon, and Google, etc. The question is how much control to give up of your own website to have it be an extension of Clickbank?

          Example: one product promoted on the CB home page is the 20 minute body. Some pages in that site link to a Clickbank check out page. Other pages link to buying the book on Amazon. It would be fraudulent to have Clickbank branding at the top of every page, but confusing to have Clickbank branding only at the top of certain pages.

          No doubt CB is going to lose some sellers.

          .
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10290589].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Chris Chicas
    As much as ClickBank has pissed off so many Internet Marketers within the last few years.... I think that their previous actions are pale in comparison as to what they are about to do.

    I hope word about spreads quickly and that CB comes to their senses about going forward with such an idiotic idea.

    There is still a glimmer of hope that I have for CB, but like many of you, I will not come near it if this goes through.

    I truly hope that word about this spreads and that they reconsider.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10289228].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    If they're going to force a CB branded header they might as well host the page.

    I'm trying to figure out why anyone would pay $50 to promote another brand. Above the fold usually has the highest CTR, so now your going to promote a link to a support page you don't control.

    What a joke.
    Signature
    Hi
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10289238].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author ClickBank
    Hi All,

    ClickBank's Vice President of Product Management, recently recorded a podcast covering this change with Miles Baker of ClickScoop. In that podcast, he addresses exactly what this change entails and the reasons for it. I would recommend listening to that interview as it provides a great deal of detail about many of the points being raised in this thread.

    ClickScoop Podcast #27 : ClickBank's Biggest Change in Years with Chris McClave

    Thanks,
    The ClickBank Team
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10290224].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author agmccall
      Originally Posted by ClickBank View Post

      I would recommend listening to that interview as it provides a great deal of detail about many of the points being raised in this thread.

      Thanks,
      The ClickBank Team
      It really doesn't, This banner heading will just be the beginning. Unless this system will guarantee affiliate commissions, especially if someone clicks the marketplace in the header and purchases a different product, then you can kiss the affiliates good bye and the vendors are sure to follow.

      Just not enough concrete information for me to promote any clickbank products right now.

      This could be a great opportunity for savvy marketers to contact vendors on clickbank and encourage and help them move to a different platform, for a small fee of course

      al
      Signature

      It is true that money can not buy happiness, But it is more comfortable to cry in a Mercedes than on a bicycle

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10290287].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author ClickBank
        Originally Posted by agmccall View Post

        It really doesn't,
        Hi agmccall:

        Thank you for your feedback. Which points did you feel the interview failed to address? Affiliate attribution for return clicks to the marketplace?

        Thanks,
        The ClickBank Team
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10290299].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author agmccall
          Originally Posted by ClickBank View Post

          Hi agmccall:

          Thank you for your feedback. Which points did you feel the interview failed to address? Affiliate attribution for return clicks to the marketplace?

          Thanks,
          The ClickBank Team
          If we send someone to a sales page and they see your link to the marketplace and follow that link and buy something else, will we get the commission.

          No matter what anyone says, this is just the beginning, no telling what will be in the header in the future.

          al
          Signature

          It is true that money can not buy happiness, But it is more comfortable to cry in a Mercedes than on a bicycle

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10290504].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author trevord92
      Originally Posted by ClickBank View Post

      Hi All,
      ClickBank's Vice President of Product Management, recently recorded a podcast covering this change with Miles Baker of ClickScoop. In that podcast, he addresses exactly what this change entails and the reasons for it. I would recommend listening to that interview as it provides a great deal of detail about many of the points being raised in this thread.
      ClickScoop Podcast #27 : ClickBank's Biggest Change in Years with Chris McClave
      Thanks,
      The ClickBank Team
      Instead of 40 minutes recording it might help if there was a transcript that I could find the relevant parts in a matter of seconds.

      It would also help if Clickbank had the courtesy to announce this major change when we log in to our accounts - without this forum I wouldn't have even known about the change.

      And I still don't know what (if any) testing has been done or the effect it will have on previously carefully crafted and tested sales letters to have a big banner stuck at the top of the page or whether it will stay there when people scroll through the page.

      Or what effect it will have on conversions.

      To my mind, it's just a change that is being forced on me as an affiliate and if I don't like it, tough.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10290717].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author depotgang
    Clickbank's main purpose is to improve their customers experience and protect their merchant accounts.

    In many ways vendors are working against the common good of the Clickbank environment. I am surprised they have been able to maintain their viability for as long as they have...merchants are horrible to deal with. They may be big in our eye's but their problems and complaint rates must be huge compared to lets say a Walmart...Walmart processes billions with their merchants...

    So we can bitch all we want...they need to protect their business and in a way protect ours too.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10291032].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Jon Patrick
      Originally Posted by depotgang View Post

      Clickbank's main purpose is to improve their customers experience
      That's just the thing - they're not ClickBank's customers. They're our customers. We cultivate traffic or pay affiliates to do so, sending those people to our website where they buy our product. ClickBank is a payment processor and affiliate tracking platform.

      and protect their merchant accounts.
      If that was the goal here, they would boot vendors with high refund/chargeback rates and leave the rest of us alone. Forcing this change on vendors whose stats are not problematic doesn't seem to be justified by that argument.

      In many ways vendors are working against the common good of the Clickbank environment. I am surprised they have been able to maintain their viability for as long as they have...merchants are horrible to deal with.
      Blanket statements like this are rarely helpful or accurate.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10291099].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
        Originally Posted by Jon Patrick View Post

        That's just the thing - they're not ClickBank's customers. They're our customers. We cultivate traffic or pay affiliates to do so, sending those people to our website where they buy our product. ClickBank is a payment processor and affiliate tracking platform.
        Jon, please re-read the thread and ClickBank's legal terms. You may also want to listen to the podcast. They're CB's customers, and CB's affiliates (who CB pays), and buyers are making purchases from CB and not you.

        You are the wholesale manufacturer of a product which you are selling to CB, which CB then sells as a retailer to end users.

        .
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10291390].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Jon Patrick
          Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

          Jon, please re-read the thread and ClickBank's legal terms. You may also want to listen to the podcast. They're CB's customers, and CB's affiliates (who CB pays), and buyers are making purchases from CB and not you.

          You are the wholesale manufacturer of a product which you are selling to CB, which CB then sells as a retailer to end users.

          .
          I am aware of the legal technicalities.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10291412].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Sid Hale
          This is 100% accurate, and KEY to understanding both the short and long term plans that ClickBank may have...

          Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

          Jon, please re-read the thread and ClickBank's legal terms. You may also want to listen to the podcast. They're CB's customers, and CB's affiliates (who CB pays), and buyers are making purchases from CB and not you.

          You are the wholesale manufacturer of a product which you are selling to CB, which CB then sells as a retailer to end users.
          This is not new. It has always been their business model.

          They grew their business much like Walmart and Amazon (or any other retailer, for that matter)... on the backs of the merchants who liked the idea of someone else doing all the merchandising of their product(s).

          Walmart and Amazon have customer oriented marketplaces (storefronts) where they "arrange the shelves", "display the merchandise", present "impulse buys" at the checkout counter, etc.

          While both of these have altered their business models to include affiliates (outside sales reps) to extend their reach into the marketplace, ClickBank has always relied totally on affiliates to sell "door to door".

          Merchants are agreeable to the arrangement, simply because it takes away all of the headaches of running a retail business - merchant accounts, payment processing, handling refunds, consumer fraud, recruiting/managing outside sales reps, etc.

          But... for this to work, the retailer ultimately decides what products they will carry, how they display the products in their marketplace, how they protect themselves from liability, how they structure their payment plan for outside sales reps, etc.

          ClickBank (to date) has NO consumer focused marketplace. The merchant is still responsible for his own "store display". They have historically been a retailer with NO storefront.

          Until recently at ClickBank, there has been (virtually) NO control over individual product quality, nor truth in advertising (merchant hype).

          We have seen some of that change over the past year and a half, or so.


          The new ClickBank header will serve to brand the product as a "ClickBank product" in the mind of the buyer.

          Unlike say Amazon, who has a central site (a single domain) where consumers can go to search for products by category, ClickBank will essentially have a "storefront" that spans a huge number of domains. Of course, as a retailer, they want that additional exposure, but they are NOT going to want to project a negative image. Is it any wonder that they have been culling out a number of the old products and have made it much harder to get listed in the first place?

          Long term, we may see ClickBank move away from the direct selling model to create a consumer oriented marketplace (vis a vis the Amazon and Walmart storefronts), eliminating the need for merchants to maintain their own sales and/or download pages.

          They already manage the outside sales force and if they decide to create their own consumer focused marketplace, the new ClickBank header could be the initial doorway to get consumers into that space.

          Have you ever purchased anything from Amazon? Do you have a customer account with them? Do you receive promotional emails from Amazon?

          Maybe I'm reading too much into this latest change at ClickBank, but if you don't ask questions like these when making your own business plans... you ultimately get caught with your pants down.

          Not a pretty sight.
          Signature

          Sid Hale
          Coming Soon... Rapid Action Profits (Pro)

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10292694].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
            Looking at the new marketplace, if ClickBank wants to emulate Amazon with merchant products under the ClickBank roof, with recommended other products to purchase, then CB (like Amazon) also needs to ensure affiliates receive a CB-wide commission for purchases and not strictly a commission for the clicked product that led a buyer to the marketplace.

            For sellers it is now an Amazon type situation, but worse. With Amazon sellers can sell on Amazon and also sell on their own website. The ClickBank banner prevents this. A seller may have to consider multiple sites, or use of subdomains as ClickBank seeks to capitalize on your hard work in developing a domain name, website and traffic and having that investment now lead to the CB marketplace.

            To rub salt in the wound you have to pay CB for this opportunity. While this may still pencil out for sellers due to the reach of CB affiliates, this circles back to my original point of whether affiliates will continue to drive traffic to CB offers if there no marketplace-wide commission.

            For affiliates, it is similar to sending traffic to Amazon but only getting credit for a purchase of the one product that got the click.

            .
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10296250].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author silvacourses
          Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

          Jon, please re-read the thread and ClickBank's legal terms. You may also want to listen to the podcast. They're CB's customers, and CB's affiliates (who CB pays), and buyers are making purchases from CB and not you.

          You are the wholesale manufacturer of a product which you are selling to CB, which CB then sells as a retailer to end users.

          .
          I am not "selling to ClickBank." I advertise and make the sale to the customer, and ClickBank receives a payment for the service they provide. The services they provide are processing the payment, and occasionally finding an affiliate to sell something for us. ClickBank doesn't do the selling, at least not on our site.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10297250].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author vishwa
    I think it is their new branding strategy and also to lure the advertisers to use their platform.
    Signature

    Check out my blog @ https://www.technobyet.com

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10291484].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Chris Chicas
    For content creators there are companies like Udemy, I GET THAT, but CB can't really try to be more like them when the business model is completely different. If I wanted to go to Udemy or Amazon it would be easy to do so. I like CB because of the way it is.

    The header thing is a deal breaker.... I would never promote or sell products via CB if this happens.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10291656].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author TonyDong
    [DELETED]
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10291741].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author SunilTanna
      Example: one product promoted on the CB home page is the 20 minute body. Some pages in that site link to a Clickbank check out page. Other pages link to buying the book on Amazon. It would be fraudulent to have Clickbank branding at the top of every page, but confusing to have Clickbank branding only at the top of certain pages.
      I think this is a very good question

      Imagine a massive site that sells a product through CB on some pages. Do they put the banner only on some pages? All pages? Have inconsistent design? What happens if you go non-sales page (non CB branded) to sales page (branded), and then back again - does the branding appear/disappear/reappear as necessary?



      I also wonder if the CB branding is suddenly going to put some people out of compliance with other affiliate programs or trademarks/tos.... Imagine a person reaches a CB site via a hop link. They're inside CB's branded frames now. Then the user follows a link, or series of links, to reach some other third party site. The CB branding now needs to be turned off as the visitor leaves (presumably the vendor needs to make sure the link breaks out of frames - something they didn't previously need to consider) or else there's a CB frame around Amazon or whatever! Oops - bad news for both the vendor & CB.



      And couple of other things that came to mind.

      1. The cookie notice pop-up that we are being strong-armed to add to our sites by various third parties - will this conflict with the CB branding? At the very least, I think it might cover it up (will CB be okay about that?) unless CB are very very careful with their coding. ... plus, even if there's no conflict, I can see a big proportion of the screen being lost to these 2 things before we even start with the actual content.

      2. Some vendors are spending big money on advertising their sites & brands. I wonder how how they will be spending that money advertising a CB-branded page.
      Signature
      ClickBank Vendor?
      - Protect Your Thank You Pages & Downloads
      - Give Your Affiliates Multiple Landing Pages (Video Demo)
      - Killer Graphics for Your Site
      SPECIAL WSO PRICES FOR WARRIORS + GET THE "CLICKBANK DISCOUNT" TOO!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10291771].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author rossle
    As a former Clickbank vendor myself, we caught wind of this a while ago and immediately recognised the downsides.


    The upsides - none as far as we could see.


    Downsides - confusing branding, a leak in our sales page, no benefits whatsoever.


    This is Clickbank's analysis of the benefits:


    1. A consistent shopping experience supported by ClickBank and ClickBank’s trusted Internet Retailer reputation
    2. Continuous support for products sold on ClickBank
    3. A smooth shopping experience, as customers do not have to jump in between platforms
    4. A consistent, curated shopping experience for a vendor’s product offerings on the ClickBank marketplace
    Now, call me cynical, but if the above does not sound like the most desperate justification for this new change, then I don't know what does. There is no substance or real truth here.


    As a result, we have left Clickbank and moved to clickbetter.com and took along a decent chunk of affiliates with us too.


    Goodbye Clickbank, never again.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10292417].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author agmccall
    Now with warrior plus hosting sales pages independent of the warrior forum I think lots of vendors will move there. I hope they do as the simple metrics such as # of sales and refund rate% spelled out in black and white are extremely important for affiliates.

    If warrior plus or jvzoo could capture some of the "Other than IM" niches it could be a real game changer and eye opener for clickbank

    al
    Signature

    It is true that money can not buy happiness, But it is more comfortable to cry in a Mercedes than on a bicycle

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10292434].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by rossle View Post

      As a former Clickbank vendor myself, we caught wind of this a while ago and immediately recognised the downsides.


      The upsides - none as far as we could see.


      Downsides - confusing branding, a leak in our sales page, no benefits whatsoever.


      This is Clickbank's analysis of the benefits:


      1. A consistent shopping experience supported by ClickBank and ClickBank's trusted Internet Retailer reputation
      2. Continuous support for products sold on ClickBank
      3. A smooth shopping experience, as customers do not have to jump in between platforms
      4. A consistent, curated shopping experience for a vendor's product offerings on the ClickBank marketplace
      Now, call me cynical, but if the above does not sound like the most desperate justification for this new change, then I don't know what does. There is no substance or real truth here.


      As a result, we have left Clickbank and moved to clickbetter.com and took along a decent chunk of affiliates with us too.


      Goodbye Clickbank, never again.
      This is the choice offline producers have had since long before the Internet.

      Am I better served by going through a wholesaler, or direct to market?

      Rossle made his choice. You other CB sellers have the same choice.

      When CB first came on the scene, they solved a huge problem for small-time entrepreneurs. That was getting access to credit card orders. Merchants/banks simply refused to give merchant accounts to online sellers out of fear of fraud. Enter CB, saying to the banks "you don't have to hand out 10,000 merchant accounts to sellers who may not be there tomorrow - give one to us, and we'll deal with it."

      Suddenly, for $50 anyone could peddle their goods on the Internet. I still have my CB account, even though it's been fifteen years since I listed anything with them.

      Times have changed. If CB does something that doesn't work for your business, you have alternatives. Leave this pity party turned bitch session and make the best decision you can for your business.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10292477].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Mikesweeney
        "The Clickbank Header is great for vendors!" - Said no one ever...



        Time to switch to JV Zoo...
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10295065].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Okane
          I'm running a membership site with over 1k customers. My refund rate is below 1% and there are only a few chargebacks per year.

          I hope CB doesn't expect me to put their HUGE banner thingy on top of the navigation bar of my carefully designed site.

          Members would no longer be able to bookmark specific pages on my site (for example useful forum post) because it's now in an iframe.

          Members would see super ugly URLs in their browser navigation tabs all the time.

          Being in a non-IM niche, the name "Clickbank" doesn't bring the right associations to mind. Sounds like Marketing, Money, Spam... and has NOTHING to do with my niche. Very likely, it will repell some potential customers from taking a closer look at the site.

          I could go on...
          Signature

          signature is on holiday

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10295385].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author julesw
            Originally Posted by Okane View Post


            I hope CB doesn't expect me to put their HUGE banner thingy on top of the navigation bar of my carefully designed site.

            Members would no longer be able to bookmark specific pages on my site (for example useful forum post) because it's now in an iframe.
            Far as i know it will only appear on the funnel pages - sales .. upsell .. thankyou etc not the content pages. Though it does appear on a separate landing page post clicking exit intent banner

            I have had that ugly thing appear on my site last night and that is the case.Banner - Not on content pages.
            Signature
            WIN my Lanparte Smartphone or GoPro Gimbal! Get Ready Get Steady! Watch my Video Here:
            VideoHero.com/win
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10295459].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author SunilTanna
            Originally Posted by Okane View Post

            Members would no longer be able to bookmark specific pages on my site (for example useful forum post) because it's now in an iframe.

            Members would see super ugly URLs in their browser navigation tabs all the time.

            Being in a non-IM niche, the name "Clickbank" doesn't bring the right associations to mind. Sounds like Marketing, Money, Spam... and has NOTHING to do with my niche. Very likely, it will repell some potential customers from taking a closer look at the site.

            I could go on...
            If CB have to insist on some element of their branding appearing on every vendor's site, I think that they should have done using inline elements (everybody adds a JS that adds a CB header, or better yet a CB footer, as an *element* of the page) - rather than FRAMEs/IFRAMEs. Frames are just about the worst way to implement this.

            Problems with iframes:

            1.Bookmark's don't work, as mentioned by trevord92

            2. SEO is seriously damaged

            3. Vendor's branding of their domains is lost

            4. URLs are horrible

            5. The vendor's nickname (which is usually some meaningless codename that has nothing to do with the product) appears in the URL. For example, which is better:

            info.clickbank.net/wildcom2
            or
            ebookcompiler.com


            info.clickbank.net/20mbody
            or
            20minutebody.com

            info.clickbank.net/duncanptp
            or
            photoshop-tutorials-plus.net

            6. Potential problem of framing unintended site.

            If a vendor has a link to a site which is not meant to be framed by ClickBank, they need to remember to include TARGET="_top" or TARGET="_blank" in all hyperlinks. Otherwise the site they are linking to will appear in a CB frame, even if not intended to.

            Note: existing vendor pages may not include TARGET= as it was not required before (so you need to check all your pages and all your hyperlinks).

            If you do frame a site that you do not intend to, be aware:
            (a) If it's a site that you are affiliate linking to (say Amazon or something) you may be violating the Amazon TOS
            (b) If the link which leaves the frame behind is an ad, you are most likely violating the ad network's TOS
            (c) Framing third party sites without consent is at least ugly, and in a few cases has led to people being sued in the past - see http://docs.law.gwu.edu/facweb/claw/Framing.htm

            Also be aware that it doesn't necessary have to be a direct pather

            e.g, let's say V is your vendor page, C is another content site you control, and A is a third party site like Amazon

            Prior to the change a person could follow this path if they arrived via CB hop link

            hop link -> V -> C -> A

            In the new CB system, this could happen of you haven't included TARGET=

            hop link -> V (inside CB frames) -> C (wrongly inside CB frames) -> A (even more wrongly inside CB frames).

            7. Again if you don't include TARGET=_top is there a possiblity of a CB frame within a frame?

            Imagine V1 is vendor 1, and he has a hop link to vendor 2

            Could this happen?

            hop -> V1 (inside CB frame) -> hop -> V2 (inside a new CB frame, but also within the original CB frame).

            8. I don't think FRAMEs/IFRAMEs play nice with phones & mobiles. I'm not knowledgeable enough about this to say, but a couple of people have told there are issues


            9. If somebody uses Social Media (like Facebook Like button) to share a vendor's URL, it used to work. I understand the new info.clickbank.net/... URLs are already flagged as spam.by Facebook and Disqus.


            10. I don't know if CB is using FRAMEs or IFRAMEs. If the former - FRAMEs are obsoleted as of HTML 5!
            Signature
            ClickBank Vendor?
            - Protect Your Thank You Pages & Downloads
            - Give Your Affiliates Multiple Landing Pages (Video Demo)
            - Killer Graphics for Your Site
            SPECIAL WSO PRICES FOR WARRIORS + GET THE "CLICKBANK DISCOUNT" TOO!
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10295525].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Harvey Segal
              Strangely enough I don't find the branded header all that obtrusive. And when I now return to my site I hardly notice it.

              Far more important is the loss of my domain name. A carefully chosen domain name is a key factor in establishing what your product is about and in beating the competition.

              Maybe we need to think about adding the domain name to our own sales page headers.

              Regarding the links in the branded header

              1. The link to Customer Support

              Currently this is not particularly useful.

              The options are

              a) Question about this product
              With the obvious answer "Please review the vendor page below for support with this product"
              Optionally the Customer Service Web Site link from the Contact Information in the ClickBank account could be added here.

              b) Questions about an existing order
              This is of no use to the regular visitor, only to someone who has purchased and has lost details of how to contact ClickBank. But now he may struggle to recall the site as the domain name will not have been shown. Also any bookmarks will just show "ClickBank | A Global Internet Retailer"


              2. The link to Marketplace

              This takes you to the Featured Products and these do not carry an affiliate link. My suggestion in an earlier post was that commission could be split between the affiliate and the vendor (of the original product).

              Note that ClickBank make the same profit with or without the affiliate commission.

              Pursuing this further the commission could appear in our transaction reports with an indication that it was a marketplace purchase (via the branded header).

              For an affiliate especially seeing the odd sale of such products would be a major boost to their promotion efforts as well as reducing lapses into dormancy and speeding up the passage to meet the Customer Distribution Requirement.



              Moving on to the header which appears on the page with Featured Products. It has links to
              a. Marketplace
              b. Customer Support
              c. Create Account
              d. Login

              (a) is, as I mentioned in my earlier post, a Marketplace geared to affiliates (not customers).

              (c) and therefore (d) are confusing. Customers will think they need to have an account (e.g like Amazon)


              Moving back to the branded header I suggest that there should be a link (maybe make the word ClickBank linkable) which takes you to a page where ClickBank reinforce their credibility e.g from their About ClickBank section

              "As a top 100 online retailer with 200 million customers, ClickBank sells digital products worldwide created by entrepreneurs. From advice for getting in shape to healthy cooking recipes and dating advice, ClickBank delivers digital lifestyle products to customers in 190 countries."


              .
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10295928].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author TweetPilot
                Originally Posted by Harvey Segal View Post

                Strangely enough I don't find the branded header all that obtrusive. And when I now return to my site I hardly notice it.
                Got to say I find this surprising. It's the first thing I see when landing on my page. It doesn't match the design and the site no longer screams 'MY BRAND' but the first thing people see is 'Clickbank'.

                With the product not being in the IM niche, most people don't know who Clickbank are and they're freaking out. What's happened to 'MY BRAND'?

                I've already put the 'wheels in motion' to move all my vendor activity from Clickbank.
                Signature
                TweetPilot - Our New App Making it Easy to Gain Followers on Twitter... Coming Soon!
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10296208].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Stephen Carter
                something that i haven't seen people recognizing in this thread is that the current technical implementation that ClickBank has offered - the mandatory javascript that goes onto your vendor pages - is NOT designed to add a CB branded logo and links to the top of your page. instead it instantly redirects the visitor to the CB Always On Shopping Portal so they never even see your domain.

                so regardless of whether you are dealing with hoplinks or not, your vendor pages ALWAYS appear on the shopping portal site.

                this means that if you drive traffic to your own domain it gets redirected to the CB site. needless to say, this is pretty ridiculous.

                especially when you realize that because your vendor pages are iframed any cookies your site depends upon to function properly will cease to exist for some browsers, like IE.

                this is why CB suggest that you have your web developer implement a P3P privacy protocol to allow for those cookies to be accepted by browsers that demand a privacy policy before they can regard those cookies as legit. this means EVERY CB vendor really needs to address this problem and most won't even realize there IS a problem because most won't read the technical implementation of this:

                https://support.clickbank.com/entrie...entation-Guide

                so loss of cookies are an issue for IE browsers. but there is a "fix" (although it is highly confusing one because the P3P standard is ignored by all browsers other than IE and IE itself doesn't strictly enforce the protocol). however for some other browsers, like Safari, there is no robust fix for this issue.

                so that's cookies. but you should also expect that there will be other unanticipated problems due to the iframing procedure which was never intended to be used to encapsulate entire websites. nobody in their right mind would attempt to iframe tens of thousands of separate websites that were never constructed to work within an iframe and not believe there might be some very real technical problems that are simply not worth the vendor's attempts to try to fix.

                hopefully ClickBank comes to their senses and abandons the iframe approach. that's the very LEAST they ought to be doing here. i can see their platform surviving a branding implementation whereby they force all vendors to add some javascript so pull in a header. but redirecting all traffic to an iframed portal? that's never going to be an acceptable long term strategy.

                ClickBank needs to wake up now and fix this.
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10296347].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author TheWebGuy
                  Originally Posted by Stephen Carter View Post

                  something that i haven't seen people recognizing in this thread is that the current technical implementation that ClickBank has offered - the mandatory javascript that goes onto your vendor pages - is NOT designed to add a CB branded logo and links to the top of your page. instead it instantly redirects the visitor to the CB Always On Shopping Portal so they never even see your domain.

                  so regardless of whether you are dealing with hoplinks or not, your vendor pages ALWAYS appear on the shopping portal site.

                  this means that if you drive traffic to your own domain it gets redirected to the CB site. needless to say, this is pretty ridiculous.

                  especially when you realize that because your vendor pages are iframed any cookies your site depends upon to function properly will cease to exist for some browsers, like IE.

                  this is why CB suggest that you have your web developer implement a P3P privacy protocol to allow for those cookies to be accepted by browsers that demand a privacy policy before they can regard those cookies as legit. this means EVERY CB vendor really needs to address this problem and most won't even realize there IS a problem because most won't read the technical implementation of this:

                  https://support.clickbank.com/entrie...entation-Guide

                  so loss of cookies are an issue for IE browsers. but there is a "fix" (although it is highly confusing one because the P3P standard is ignored by all browsers other than IE and IE itself doesn't strictly enforce the protocol). however for some other browsers, like Safari, there is no robust fix for this issue.

                  so that's cookies. but you should also expect that there will be other unanticipated problems due to the iframing procedure which was never intended to be used to encapsulate entire websites. nobody in their right mind would attempt to iframe tens of thousands of separate websites that were never constructed to work within an iframe and not believe there might be some very real technical problems that are simply not worth the vendor's attempts to try to fix.

                  hopefully ClickBank comes to their senses and abandons the iframe approach. that's the very LEAST they ought to be doing here. i can see their platform surviving a branding implementation whereby they force all vendors to add some javascript so pull in a header. but redirecting all traffic to an iframed portal? that's never going to be an acceptable long term strategy.

                  ClickBank needs to wake up now and fix this.

                  ...If Clickbank wants recognition so people know they've bought from Clickbank all that's needed is branded buy now buttons ...or putting something near the buttons that says "secure payment by Clickbank". Plus many other ways. Seriously though, there are so many other ways to fix this other than putting a header at the top of all of our sites with their brand!

                  Think about it...

                  How much traffic is run through Clickbank sites? Tons.

                  How do a lot of vendors sell products ...delayed buttons after a presentation.

                  But our lists and people from media buys will now instantly recognize the Clickbank header ...know it's a pitch and not even give it a chance. The reason we delay the button is to get them interested in the product, give them helpful advice, then sell them additional info/products if they're still interested. But now people won't even give our videos/sales pages a chance.

                  A lot of affiliates and vendors only sell Clickbank products too in email marketing. The list will now go stale a lot sooner ...even if you are sending them to great content/offers/etc.

                  The header will kill Clickbank and conversions over time. ...and that fact that they added links in their header sent sooo much traffic away (trust me I know ...they put that crap on two of my sites and it killed my conversions already).
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10296373].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Michele Miller
            Originally Posted by Okane View Post

            I'm running a membership site with over 1k customers. My refund rate is below 1% and there are only a few chargebacks per year.

            I hope CB doesn't expect me to put their HUGE banner thingy on top of the navigation bar of my carefully designed site.

            Members would no longer be able to bookmark specific pages on my site (for example useful forum post) because it's now in an iframe.

            Members would see super ugly URLs in their browser navigation tabs all the time.

            Being in a non-IM niche, the name "Clickbank" doesn't bring the right associations to mind. Sounds like Marketing, Money, Spam... and has NOTHING to do with my niche. Very likely, it will repell some potential customers from taking a closer look at the site.

            I could go on...
            Totally agree, especially that the name Clickbank doesn't bring the right associations to mind. I have always thought that.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10299619].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Okane
              So what's the status now?

              As I see it, Clickbank did NOT cancel or stop the ugly banner thing, at least from the vendor point of view.

              Vendors are still required to add the Javascript snippet to their sales pages. From my CB vendor account: "The Always On Shopping Portal Header is required on all customer-facing pages."

              And as soon as the Javascript is there, the Clickbank banner will also appear again for all affiliates linking to those sales pages.

              So, nothing changed?
              They are not listening to the turmoil?
              Signature

              signature is on holiday

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10299775].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Michele Miller
                I'm seeing that message in my accounts too. It's absolute BS in my opinion.
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10299982].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author emilsb
                Originally Posted by Okane View Post

                So what's the status now?

                As I see it, Clickbank did NOT cancel or stop the ugly banner thing, at least from the vendor point of view.

                Vendors are still required to add the Javascript snippet to their sales pages. From my CB vendor account: "The Always On Shopping Portal Header is required on all customer-facing pages."

                And as soon as the Javascript is there, the Clickbank banner will also appear again for all affiliates linking to those sales pages.

                So, nothing changed?
                They are not listening to the turmoil?
                Do you really expect them to listen and change?

                A new CEO is there, new management is coming with big changes out of the blue. We can all assume either they're in some internal trouble of some sort, OR that they are taking a huge gamble now, a quantum leap toward different business, and expecting some big payout next. The new management most likely brought this thing up, because it's a clear deviation from the old line. They're moving fast in uncharted waters. That's the kind of changes new management brings on the table.

                So now, how could we all expect them to revert their decision that quick?

                It would show to everyone in the company, that their decisions are bad from the start. That they are weak (if reverting), and if they do it, they will be forced to leave that seat.

                Once you've done something like this, I don't think there's a going back.

                The little I know about corporate boards and new CEO's, is telling me one thing. They aren't going to give up on this, no matter what. Nobody will risk breaking their necks by reverting now. Within companies, there's always people.

                No - this is far from locked and loaded. It already went fully through the barrel, and it ain't coming back.

                P.S. I've made my point in this thread, outlined my opinion against this change. But I know it's just my point and makes little to no difference. I personally don't have any real hope that they are going listen. Time will tell.
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10300102].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author TweetPilot
                  Originally Posted by emilsb View Post

                  Do you really expect them to listen and change?

                  A new CEO is there, new management is coming with big changes out of the blue. We can all assume either they're in some internal trouble of some sort, OR that they are taking a huge gamble now, a quantum leap toward different business, and expecting some big payout next. The new management most likely brought this thing up, because it's a clear deviation from the old line. They're moving fast in uncharted waters. That's the kind of changes new management brings on the table.

                  So now, how could we all expect them to revert their decision that quick?

                  It would show to everyone in the company, that their decisions are bad from the start. That they are weak (if reverting), and if they do it, they will be forced to leave that seat.

                  Once you've done something like this, I don't think there's a going back.

                  The little I know about corporate boards and new CEO's, is telling me one thing. They aren't going to give up on this, no matter what. Nobody will risk breaking their necks by reverting now. Within companies, there's always people.

                  No - this is far from locked and loaded. It already went fully through the barrel, and it ain't coming back.

                  P.S. I've made my point in this thread, outlined my opinion against this change. But I know it's just my point and makes little to no difference. I personally don't have any real hope that they are going listen. Time will tell.
                  Completely agree. They've jumped on a couple of times with some BS reply that's from the politicians handbook on how to avoid concerns and questions of the public.

                  I've now moved a few products from their platform and I'm pretty sure I'm not the only one.
                  Signature
                  TweetPilot - Our New App Making it Easy to Gain Followers on Twitter... Coming Soon!
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10300235].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Michele Miller
                Can we now contact affiliates in our CB accounts? I would feel bad to switch processors simply because of my affiliates. I just think a Clickbank banner will look suspicious and out of place on all my sites, and the name itself sounds "spammy". For sure I will lose sales. Most of my sites are in the medical field.
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10300249].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author TweetPilot
                  Originally Posted by Michele Miller View Post

                  Can we now contact affiliates in our CB accounts? I would feel bad to switch processors simply because of my affiliates. I just think a Clickbank banner will look suspicious and out of place on all my sites, and the name itself sounds "spammy". For sure I will lose sales. Most of my sites are in the medical field.
                  If you do plan on moving them perhaps set a date and put this on any JV pages you have and also send it out to any JV lists. At list that'll give affiliates a chance to join the new program.

                  You could even be bold and put this date on your Clickbank listing if you're worried affiliates won't see it.
                  Signature
                  TweetPilot - Our New App Making it Easy to Gain Followers on Twitter... Coming Soon!
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10300281].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author Sid Hale
                  The problem with that thinking, Michele

                  Originally Posted by Michele Miller View Post

                  Can we now contact affiliates in our CB accounts? I would feel bad to switch processors simply because of my affiliates. I just think a Clickbank banner will look suspicious and out of place on all my sites, and the name itself sounds "spammy". For sure I will lose sales. Most of my sites are in the medical field.
                  ...is that they are not YOUR affiliates. They are ClickBank's affiliates !!!

                  You have always left yourself vulnerable by letting someone else control those affiliates - probably your greatest source of traffic/sales.

                  You're not alone.

                  In terms of numbers, most vendors take the easy route and simply list their product with an affiliate network in the hopes that the network will supply enough quality affiliates to maintain a sufficient number of sales to satisfy their needs.

                  A few succeed, but it's a crap shoot .

                  Even if they see some level of success, taking the passive approach to recruiting affiliates means they are probably leaving a lot of money on the table. They have little/no control over which affiliates choose their product(s) to promote (and as we've seen with ClickBank's recent move... also no control over the business strategy of the affiliate network itself).

                  Using an affiliate network to get your first affiliates, for your very first product launch, is understandable - but it is very risky to become dependent on that platform exclusively. What happens when you're ready to launch your second product? Shouldn't you be contacting those who have already had some success promoting your first product to get them to promote your subsequent products? ...or do you simply roll the dice, yet again? Doesn't building your own network of affiliates give you more control, and contribute more to building a real business?

                  The affiliate networks give you no way to do that. They really don't want you to be able to contact your affiliates directly, simply because that would reduce your need for their services. They would have fewer new product releases, and therefore, less attraction for new affiliates for their network.
                  Signature

                  Sid Hale
                  Coming Soon... Rapid Action Profits (Pro)

                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10300307].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author Michele Miller
                    Originally Posted by Sid Hale View Post

                    The problem with that thinking, Michele



                    ...is that they are not YOUR affiliates. They are ClickBank's affiliates !!!

                    You have always left yourself vulnerable by letting someone else control those affiliates - probably your greatest source of traffic/sales.

                    You're not alone.

                    In terms of numbers, most vendors take the easy route and simply list their product with an affiliate network in the hopes that the network will supply enough quality affiliates to maintain a sufficient number of sales to satisfy their needs.

                    A few succeed, but it's a crap shoot .

                    Even if they see some level of success, taking the passive approach to recruiting affiliates means they are probably leaving a lot of money on the table. They have little/no control over which affiliates choose their product(s) to promote (and as we've seen with ClickBank's recent move... also no control over the business strategy of the affiliate network itself).

                    Using an affiliate network to get your first affiliates, for your very first product launch, is understandable - but it is very risky to become dependent on that platform exclusively. What happens when you're ready to launch your second product? Shouldn't you be contacting those who have already had some success promoting your first product to get them to promote your subsequent products? ...or do you simply roll the dice, yet again? Doesn't building your own network of affiliates give you more control, and contribute more to building a real business?

                    The affiliate networks give you no way to do that. They really don't want you to be able to contact your affiliates directly, simply because that would reduce your need for their services. They would have fewer new product releases, and therefore, less attraction for new affiliates for their network.
                    That's very true. I know they used to deny us access to our affiliates for that very reason I suppose. Not sure if that has changed or not. But for "their" affiliates I would feel bad switching and all their hard work going down the drain.

                    I am curious to know how you recommend getting "your own" affiliates. I used CB simply because they send the affiliate checks out etc. Thanks for your input. I agree with you.
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10300362].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author agmccall
                    Originally Posted by Sid Hale View Post

                    The problem with that thinking, Michele



                    ...is that they are not YOUR affiliates. They are ClickBank's affiliates !!!

                    You have always left yourself vulnerable by letting someone else control those affiliates - probably your greatest source of traffic/sales.

                    You're not alone.

                    In terms of numbers, most vendors take the easy route and simply list their product with an affiliate network in the hopes that the network will supply enough quality affiliates to maintain a sufficient number of sales to satisfy their needs.

                    A few succeed, but it's a crap shoot .

                    Even if they see some level of success, taking the passive approach to recruiting affiliates means they are probably leaving a lot of money on the table. They have little/no control over which affiliates choose their product(s) to promote (and as we've seen with ClickBank's recent move... also no control over the business strategy of the affiliate network itself).

                    Using an affiliate network to get your first affiliates, for your very first product launch, is understandable - but it is very risky to become dependent on that platform exclusively. What happens when you're ready to launch your second product? Shouldn't you be contacting those who have already had some success promoting your first product to get them to promote your subsequent products? ...or do you simply roll the dice, yet again? Doesn't building your own network of affiliates give you more control, and contribute more to building a real business?

                    The affiliate networks give you no way to do that. They really don't want you to be able to contact your affiliates directly, simply because that would reduce your need for their services. They would have fewer new product releases, and therefore, less attraction for new affiliates for their network.
                    One that could be done, I am not a vendor mind you, I am thinking out loud, is to have people "register/signup" to access your affiliate/jv page. That way, they are on your list and you can communicate with them for whatever reason.

                    al
                    Signature

                    It is true that money can not buy happiness, But it is more comfortable to cry in a Mercedes than on a bicycle

                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10301086].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author Harvey Segal
                      Originally Posted by agmccall View Post

                      One that could be done, I am not a vendor mind you, I am thinking out loud, is to have people "register/signup" to access your affiliate/jv page. That way, they are on your list and you can communicate with them for whatever reason.
                      You can do this with ClickBank using their Exclusive Whitelist feature.

                      .
                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10301117].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Pnigro
                Originally Posted by Okane View Post

                So what's the status now?

                As I see it, Clickbank did NOT cancel or stop the ugly banner thing, at least from the vendor point of view.

                Vendors are still required to add the Javascript snippet to their sales pages. From my CB vendor account: "The Always On Shopping Portal Header is required on all customer-facing pages."
                Don't put the Javascript on your website, they probably just left it there in case they want to re-enable it again for some reason.

                I would ignore that for now.

                Here's what Clickbank said:

                "We are actively evaluating the data we gathered during our test to see what iterative changes should be made to the format and content of the header, though we will not serve it through an iframe. As we make modifications to our approach, we will keep you updated."
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10300285].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Jon Patrick
                Originally Posted by Okane View Post

                So what's the status now?

                As I see it, Clickbank did NOT cancel or stop the ugly banner thing, at least from the vendor point of view.
                They definitely did not. They are still pushing this whole scheme. It's only the IFRAME implementation that they are talking about changing.

                It's not just about a banner, either. Suppose they announce that they are dropping the banner idea, but instead they are going to force vendors to put some other kind of ClickBank branding or links onto their websites. Is that acceptable? Not in the slightest.

                I really don't think the people making these decisions at ClickBank have a clue about the ramifications for their company if they don't drop this idea in its entirety. They have visions of sugar plums dancing in their heads as they envision becoming a digital retail destination.

                The reality is that vendors and affiliates are going to flock to other payment processors and affiliate networks, as they should.

                I understand why ClickBank's leadership wants to develop a retail marketplace for consumers, and I think they are uniquely positioned to do so. But this is not the way. It needs to be done honestly and on their own steam, not at the expense of the vendors and affiliates who use their services. Otherwise, the pitchforks are coming out.

                It's really not rocket science. Create a decent consumer-oriented marketplace. Invite vendors to list their products in the marketplace, and explain the benefits to them. Do not force them to do so. Do not try to take over their websites.

                A little decency and some common sense would go a long way here.
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10302880].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author YuanHao
        Can anybody report on real life cases of the change?

        I had the change rolled out at some point, but I noticed it since yesterday. Usually I have around $70-$100 sales per day and yesterday I had no sales from the sales page (had some rebills and upsells).

        I know, I know, I should "start looking for alternatives" but some factual data would really help. If sales stay low for the rest of the month I will definitely look somewhere else.

        Edit: I'm already checking out Clickbetter. But it says that they hold or keep $20 of each payment? My product is only $47, that would be more than I get by the comission LOL
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10295480].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author alodie
        Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

        This is the choice offline producers have had since long before the Internet.

        Am I better served by going through a wholesaler, or direct to market?

        Rossle made his choice. You other CB sellers have the same choice.

        When CB first came on the scene, they solved a huge problem for small-time entrepreneurs. That was getting access to credit card orders. Merchants/banks simply refused to give merchant accounts to online sellers out of fear of fraud. Enter CB, saying to the banks "you don't have to hand out 10,000 merchant accounts to sellers who may not be there tomorrow - give one to us, and we'll deal with it."

        Suddenly, for $50 anyone could peddle their goods on the Internet. I still have my CB account, even though it's been fifteen years since I listed anything with them.

        Times have changed. If CB does something that doesn't work for your business, you have alternatives. Leave this pity party turned bitch session and make the best decision you can for your business.

        Hi John,

        You have made some very solid points.

        Clickbank has been around for so very long, and has served its customers
        so well (and yes, there have been some customer issues here and there over
        the years, but...), that it might appear that this company's service might (I said,
        'might') be taken for granted now, since there are now so many other
        alternatives.

        But, back then, when people like myself could not afford the giant cost
        of other types of Merchant account systems, guess who was there to help me
        out?

        You got it right! Clickbank.

        I firmly believe that Clickbank has earned the right to make any change they
        deem necessary for the welfare of their customers.

        So, yes, their approach might appear too drastic a measure. But yes, I feel
        they are soooooo entitled to that move.

        But at the same time, the Internet environment has changed tremendously
        from when Clickbank started back them. Therefore, Clickbank could be
        seen as having an obligation to get their customers (affiliate, vendors,
        customers, whoever) involved in their planned business changes, and the
        subsequent implementation of those changes.

        I seem to feel that if they had taken this approach , initially, it could have
        prevented the much anxieties I seem to sense coming through the intense
        discussions on this sensitive matter.

        My fellow Warrior Forum members do have a point, and a very strong
        point, at that.

        Once again, great points, John. Made me think afresh about Clickbank,
        and what it has done for so many of us over the years.

        Cheers,

        Alodieanne
        Signature
        "Providing personal and business transformational information: Working hard to always give the kind of value that will produce the best results for my customers. Because, the success of my business will depend on my customers' satisfaction."


        Alodieanne
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10382355].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Jon Patrick
          Originally Posted by alodie View Post

          Hi John,

          You have made some very solid points.

          Clickbank has been around for so very long, and has served its customers
          so well (and yes, there have been some customer issues here and there over
          the years, but...), that it might appear that this company's service might (I said,
          'might') be taken for granted now, since there are now so many other
          alternatives.

          But, back then, when people like myself could not afford the giant cost
          of other types of Merchant account systems, guess who was there to help me
          out?

          You got it right! Clickbank.
          I agree that ClickBank provided a useful service, and we used them happily for years. But that doesn't entitle them to take over our website against our will, and put their own header and branding at the top. No sensible business owner would let them or any other service provider (GoDaddy for example) do that.

          I firmly believe that Clickbank has earned the right to make any change they
          deem necessary for the welfare of their customers.
          This is more about ClickBank wanting to be "a global internet retailer with 200,000,000 customers," as they are now saying on their website and social media, than anybody else's welfare.

          Think about this for a moment. That 200,000,000 number refers to their vendors' customers. In other words, they are claiming that all of their vendors' customers are actually their customers. While doing this, they are trying to take over the vendors' websites and put their own header and branding at the top.

          Really let that sink in.

          Legalese notwithstanding, their actual customers are the vendors who pay them to use their processing and affiliate management services, and the affiliates who work in concert with the vendors. This scheme cooked up by the leadership at ClickBank violates their customers' trust in a very self-serving and cynical way.

          So, yes, their approach might appear too drastic a measure. But yes, I feel
          they are soooooo entitled to that move.
          They tried to take over all of their customers' websites, put their own header and branding at the top, steal their customers' traffic with links into their own "marketplace," and change their customers' domain names to ClickBank URLs. This kind of scheme is immoral and abusive by any standard.

          They didn't get away with doing all of that (rightly so.) But now they're at it again with a scaled back version in which they're still trying to put their own header and branding at the top of all of their customers' websites against their will. It's yet another attempt at abusing their customers, and if they get their foot in the door with this, more is sure to follow.

          To say they are entitled to do these things is, in my view, very misguided.

          But at the same time, the Internet environment has changed tremendously
          from when Clickbank started back them. Therefore, Clickbank could be
          seen as having an obligation to get their customers (affiliate, vendors,
          customers, whoever) involved in their planned business changes, and the
          subsequent implementation of those changes.
          Regardless of how they went about implementing this scheme of theirs, it's the scheme itself that is the main problem. These are not so much business changes as they are a hostile takeover of their customers' websites.

          My fellow Warrior Forum members do have a point, and a very strong
          point, at that.
          While I disagree with much of what you wrote, I appreciate your good-natured approach to dealing with other forum members who don't share your opinions.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10382983].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author myob
            Originally Posted by Jon Patrick View Post

            Think about this for a moment. That 200,000,000 number refers to their vendors' customers.
            Actually, Clickbank is technically correct in this claim. They are a retailer, not a payment gateway. They do have an aggressive customer service system in place for handling unruly or unscrupulous vendors in protecting their customers. And as mentioned very early on in this hissy-fit thread, there are many other options available for vendors.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10383889].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author rjd1265
              Image 1 of what the new badge will look like



              Option 2 the floating badge:


              Not as bad as the first one they wanted us to use....but under all my payment methods I have this:



              Not one site i go to online has a clonky looking "secure" floating around on the page...how distracting

              And as a vendor, i can place the header in 5 spots:
              Top Center
              Top Right
              Top Left
              Bottom Right
              Bottom Left
              Signature
              Join My Private Facebook Group For Awesome Internet Marketing Strategies and Discussions With the Best Online Marketers!
              Internet Marketing Masterminds.
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10384093].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Jon Patrick
              Originally Posted by myob View Post

              Actually, Clickbank is technically correct in this claim. They are a retailer, not a payment gateway.
              Only in the world of legalese are they a retailer and not a payment gateway. Buyers don't know ClickBank from a hole in the ground. Vendors pay ClickBank to use their payment processing and affiliate management services. Vendors are their customers, legalese notwithstanding.

              They do have an aggressive customer service system in place for handling unruly or unscrupulous vendors in protecting their customers.
              When a potential customer comes to my website, looks at my product, is convinced by me to buy it, receives it from me, and then receives support from me after the sale, that is my customer. To pretend otherwise based on what a payment processor says in their legalese, or the fact that the payment processor has a means for people to file for refunds, is just silly.

              And as mentioned very early on in this hissy-fit thread,
              Hissy-fit thread? You don't need to be rude. If you have specific issues with the things I and others have been saying, please feel free to let us know where you disagree. I would be happy to address any points you have, assuming you have any, but childish name-calling isn't productive.

              there are many other options available for vendors.
              I agree with this, of course.
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10384427].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author myob
                Originally Posted by Jon Patrick View Post

                Only in the world of legalese are they a retailer and not a payment gateway. Buyers don't know ClickBank from a hole in the ground. Vendors pay ClickBank to use their payment processing and affiliate management services. Vendors are their customers, legalese notwithstanding.
                In every sense of the term, Clickbank is the retailer. Vendors are nothing more than suppliers. The sales process is handled by Clickbank. Affiliates are protected by anonymity from vendors, and commissions are paid by Clickbank. Vendors are totally irrelevant in the affiliate approval as well as the Clickbank transaction process. Sales taxes/VAT, income tax reporting, customer service issues, customer support (ticket system), fraud prevention, and refunds (due to vendor default) are all handled by Clickbank. You should have read their TOS before becoming a vendor, instead of bitching and whining about the system.


                Originally Posted by Jon Patrick View Post

                When a potential customer comes to my website, looks at my product, is convinced by me to buy it, receives it from me, and then receives support from me after the sale, that is my customer. To pretend otherwise based on what a payment processor says in their legalese, or the fact that the payment processor has a means for people to file for refunds, is just silly.
                See the above.

                Originally Posted by Jon Patrick View Post

                Hissy-fit thread? You don't need to be rude. If you have specific issues with the things I and others have been saying, please feel free to let us know where you disagree. I would be happy to address any points you have, assuming you have any, but childish name-calling isn't productive.
                See the above, and read Clickbank's TOS a little more closely.


                Originally Posted by Jon Patrick View Post

                I agree with this, of course.
                Then, you should perhaps exercise those other options.
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10384733].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author Devilfish168
                  so the question is the badge is for vendor or affiliate?

                  next is a must to put??
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10384823].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author Okane
                    Originally Posted by Devilfish168 View Post

                    so the question is the badge is for vendor or affiliate?

                    next is a must to put??
                    "The ClickBank Trust Badge (CBTB) is a required header or tab that displays the ClickBank brand on any product page that has a link to a ClickBank order form."
                    https://support.clickbank.com/entrie...k-Trust-Badge-

                    So, yes it's a must for vendors to implement on their sales or pricing pages.

                    It's much better than the first iteration of their banner.

                    Still, I don't think it will help much in "generating trust".
                    Especially, when potential customers click on the header/tab, they prominently see the message:

                    Clickbank is the trusted retailer for VENDORID.clickbank.com

                    It would be much better to mention the PRODUCT NAME and not the VENDORID. I think most vendors (including myself) use a vendor id that is not descriptive of the actual product(s). This will be quite confusing for potential customers...
                    Signature

                    signature is on holiday

                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10384862].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author Devilfish168
                      Originally Posted by Okane View Post

                      "The ClickBank Trust Badge (CBTB) is a required header or tab that displays the ClickBank brand on any product page that has a link to a ClickBank order form."
                      https://support.clickbank.com/entrie...k-Trust-Badge-

                      So, yes it's a must for vendors to implement on their sales or pricing pages.

                      It's much better than the first iteration of their banner.

                      Still, I don't think it will help much in "generating trust".
                      Especially, when potential customers click on the header/tab, they prominently see the message:

                      Clickbank is the trusted retailer for VENDORID.clickbank.com

                      It would be much better to mention the PRODUCT NAME and not the VENDORID. I think most vendors (including myself) use a vendor id that is not descriptive of the actual product(s). This will be quite confusing for potential customers...
                      hmm so for those promoting click bank vendors products need to put that badge?
                      If I'm not mistaken ....I just read again ..is not a " must " to put ..is up to your wish?
                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10384901].message }}
                      • Profile picture of the author Okane
                        Originally Posted by Devilfish168 View Post

                        hmm so for those promoting click bank vendors products need to put that badge?
                        As an affiliate, you send traffic to the vendors pitch / sales pages. You do not have a purchase link on your own affiliate page.
                        So, affiliates don't need to do anything about their websites.

                        Originally Posted by Devilfish168 View Post

                        If I'm not mistaken ....I just read again ..is not a " must " to put ..is up to your wish?
                        "required" = must
                        (for vendors)
                        Signature

                        signature is on holiday

                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10384903].message }}
                        • Profile picture of the author Devilfish168
                          Originally Posted by Okane View Post

                          As an affiliate, you send traffic to the vendors pitch / sales pages. You do not have a purchase link on your own affiliate page.
                          So, affiliates don't need to do anything about their websites.



                          "required" = must
                          (for vendors)
                          hmm like that isn't good?

                          as buyer will feel " a sense of comfort about click bank products "

                          as for vendor they have put the badge of Trust also benefit for affiliates....too.

                          for me I on affiliate
                          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10384977].message }}
                          • Profile picture of the author Jon Patrick
                            Originally Posted by Devilfish168 View Post

                            hmm like that isn't good?

                            as buyer will feel " a sense of comfort about click bank products "

                            as for vendor they have put the badge of Trust also benefit for affiliates....too.

                            for me I on affiliate
                            Please read the full thread, and you will understand what we're talking about and why it only benefits ClickBank at the expense of the vendors and affiliates.

                            To address your comment specifically, buyers will not trust a product based on seeing a ClickBank "badge" or header, because buyers in general have never heard of ClickBank. This is part of an unethical scheme in which ClickBank wants to force website owners to advertise ClickBank's brand on their websites against their will.
                            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10385768].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author Sid Hale
                  100% True...

                  Originally Posted by myob View Post

                  In every sense of the term, Clickbank is the retailer. Vendors are nothing more than suppliers. The sales process is handled by Clickbank. Affiliates are protected by anonymity from vendors, and commissions are paid by Clickbank. Vendors are totally irrelevant in the affiliate approval as well as the Clickbank transaction process. Sales taxes/VAT, income tax reporting, customer service issues, customer support (ticket system), fraud prevention, and refunds (due to vendor default) are all handled by Clickbank.
                  But...

                  Retailers Do NOT have the need/right to advertise that fact on the manufacturer's premises.

                  ClickBank now has their customer Marketplace up and running, and can plaster their image/branding all over their site.

                  Nothing in ClickBank's legal standing as a retailer gives them the right to mandate that advertising space be provided them on the manufacturer's premises, nor to dictate the placement of such advertising.

                  They can certainly require such via their TOS, but their "suppliers" don't have to like it.

                  It's just as easy to replace the CB buy button code as it is to add the trust badge code to a merchant's site... and ClickBank will never know (or find out purely by accident at some later date).

                  Since many (dare I say most?) CB vendors don't know which CB affiliates are promoting their products, there is no way to contact those affiliates to let them know that they will no longer receive credit because the buy button on the site no longer makes payment to CB and they need to be using an affiliate link from a different affiliate network.

                  Example...
                  How to Ballroom dance videos - Ballroom dance steps now has a smartcart buy button on their site(and of course, no CB Trust Badge), yet they are listed as a "Featured Product" by ClickBank on the home page of their new shopping portal.

                  I assume an affiliate hoplink still delivers the customer to that page. The CB cookie will still be written to the visitor's machine, but it's of no value, since the payment no longer goes through Clickbank. An affiliate hoplink for for that product really isn't even valid anymore.

                  Do affiliates only discover the problem after weeks of experiencing reduced sales?
                  Signature

                  Sid Hale
                  Coming Soon... Rapid Action Profits (Pro)

                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10385608].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author trevord92
                    Originally Posted by Sid Hale View Post

                    Do affiliates only discover the problem after weeks of experiencing reduced sales?
                    Yes - there's no process for affiliates to be notified when a vendor (Clickbank or a lot of others) changes payment processor or stops selling the product altogether.

                    It's a downside of affiliate marketing and I've not come across a piece of software that can do the checking to see whether the payment button is still there, whether there are other leaks on the page (AdSense, Paypal, etc), whether the page still exists or various other issues.

                    Maybe there's a market for that kind of software - it would make an upgrade on something like Pretty Links a lot more desirable.

                    But that's a digression from the ClickBank "trust" badge which I still think could be sorted by them adding a "verified by Visa/Mastercard" option after the payment link is pressed as happens on lots of other sites and by all accounts eliminates the majority of the chargeback issues as it's as close as anyone is likely to get to fraud proof.
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10385616].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author Sid Hale
                      Originally Posted by trevord92 View Post

                      Yes - there's no process for affiliates to be notified when a vendor (Clickbank or a lot of others) changes payment processor or stops selling the product altogether.
                      LOL - yeah. It was a rhetorical question.
                      Signature

                      Sid Hale
                      Coming Soon... Rapid Action Profits (Pro)

                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10385619].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author myob
                      Originally Posted by trevord92 View Post

                      Yes - there's no process for affiliates to be notified when a vendor (Clickbank or a lot of others) changes payment processor or stops selling the product altogether.
                      There actually are several software or customized solutions to alert affiliates when vendors bail out of Clickbank. My personal favorite is CBListAutomator.com. Whenever sales suddenly drop significantly on any particular CB product, it often is a solid indicator that something is wrong. Similar metrics can and should be used by affiliates for all of their affiliate networks.

                      Originally Posted by rjd1265 View Post

                      Once again,

                      Can a vendor who does well with Clickbank come on here and let us know what the conversion change was with the new badge was (not the old header).

                      I looked at it on my site and it is not obtrusive at all and when i click on it it gives simple details, with no links to anywhere else. (I have it on the bottom right and similar colors to my site so i looks like it belongs)

                      Everyone is talking about jumping ship right away without getting the updated conversion stats.

                      And unless you have all your affiliates emails to let them know you changed companies say good by to your affiliate sales, correct?

                      What if sales increase for affiliates, vendors and clickbank....I am sure JVZoo and others might take notice and come up with their own version of the Trust Badge.....just a thought
                      Although I am not a vendor, I do promote over 400 Clickbank products which may help provide some baseline indication of how the new badge affects conversions. I think it really is much too early to draw any solid conclusions, but I so far have seen about a 6% drop in overall conversion rates in the last two months. However, this may perhaps be affected upward somewhat by dropping non-performing products and replacing others. In addition, vendors should realize their conversion rates may also be affected by the marketing ability of affiliates. It is more essential now than ever before that affiliates provide conspicuous disclaimers which disclose their association with Clickbank to their customers and prospects.

                      Originally Posted by Jon Patrick View Post

                      Now, you can continue with your childish and abrasive language, or you can behave like an adult, but I will continue to sound the alarm when I see the kind of unethical behavior ClickBank is currently engaging in.
                      Whenever a vendor suddenly leaves Clickbank for another platform simply because they cannot adapt to new policies or conform to Clickbank's stringently ethical standards, this sends up a red flag, and are immediately dumped from my marketing promotions.
                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10387227].message }}
                      • Profile picture of the author Jon Patrick
                        Originally Posted by myob View Post

                        Whenever a vendor suddenly leaves Clickbank for another platform simply because they cannot adapt to new policies
                        They tried to take over all of their customers' websites, put their own header and branding at the top, steal their customers' traffic with a link into their own "marketplace," and change their customers' domain names to ClickBank URLs.

                        Even after the outraged response from their customers, which forced them to put some of that on hold, they are still trying to force their customers to put a ClickBank header and branding at the top of their websites against their will.

                        When a customer abandons ClickBank in response to this type of abusive and unethical behavior, it's completely absurd to disparage them and say it's "simply because they cannot adapt to new policies."

                        or conform to Clickbank's stringently ethical standards,
                        Considering that they've allowed miracle cures and gambling "systems" to be sold through their platform for years, I wouldn't call their standards ethical.
                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10388006].message }}
                        • Profile picture of the author myob
                          Originally Posted by Jon Patrick View Post

                          They tried to take over all of their customers' websites, put their own header and branding at the top, steal their customers' traffic with a link into their own "marketplace," and change their customers' domain names to ClickBank URLs.

                          Even after the outraged response from their customers, which forced them to put some of that on hold, they are still trying to force their customers to put a ClickBank header and branding at the top of their websites against their will.

                          When a customer abandons ClickBank in response to this type of abusive and unethical behavior, it's completely absurd to disparage them and say it's "simply because they cannot adapt to new policies."
                          I am not aware of any such takeovers of customers' websites, stealing their customers' traffic, or "outraged response" by Clickbank's customers. Such allegations of customer abuse and unethical conduct are absurd.


                          Originally Posted by Jon Patrick View Post

                          Considering that they've allowed miracle cures and gambling "systems" to be sold through their platform for years, I wouldn't call their standards ethical.
                          These types of products are more of a reflection on the unethical and predatory practices of vendors rather than Clickbank. This online retailer has a 90-day unconditional 100% money-back guarantee for protecting their customers from such unethical vendor practices, predatory behavior, and fraud.
                          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10388671].message }}
                          • Profile picture of the author Jon Patrick
                            Originally Posted by myob View Post

                            I am not aware of any such takeovers of customers' websites, stealing their customers' traffic, or "outraged response" by Clickbank's customers. Such allegations of customer abuse and unethical conduct are absurd.
                            Your confusion is due to the fact that you still have trouble recognizing who ClickBank's customers are. The vendors and affiliates who use ClickBank's payment processing and affiliate management services are ClickBank's customers. They are the ones who seek out such services and choose ClickBank to provide them, and indeed they are typically the only ones who even know what ClickBank is.

                            The vendors' customers on the other hand, i.e. the people who come to the vendors' websites, are convinced by the vendors to buy their products, receive those products from the vendors, and receive support after the sale from the vendors, generally have never heard of ClickBank, and typically their only interaction with ClickBank is when ClickBank processes the sale on behalf of the vendor.

                            That is the reality. If you continue to base your views on the legalese in ClickBank's TOS rather than reality, and go around spouting nonsense about ClickBank being a retailer and every vendor's customers being their customers, we are never going to see eye to eye.

                            To the point...

                            Regardless of whether you are able to understand who ClickBank's customers are, ClickBank has indeed attempted to do all of the things you mentioned in your quote to the vendors and affiliates who use their services (their customers.) The discussion in this thread has gone over this in great detail.

                            These types of products are more of a reflection on the unethical and predatory practices of vendors rather than Clickbank.
                            Ah! So the vendors who understandably stop using ClickBank when ClickBank tries to conduct a hostile takeover of their websites are somehow failing to meet ClickBank's "stringently ethical standards"... despite the fact that ClickBank has helped some vendors peddle miracle cures and gambling system scams for years? Apparently that last part is irrelevant to the question of whether they actually have "stringently ethical standards" or not?

                            At this point I'm beginning to think you must be trolling.

                            This online retailer
                            You can keep saying it, but that won't make it true. They are not a retailer. They are a payment processing and affiliate management service.

                            has a 90-day unconditional 100% money-back guarantee
                            A vendor's customer can file for a refund through ClickBank, who processed the payment on behalf of the vendor, if the vendor is unresponsive. This does not make them a retailer any more than my bank is a retailer because they will process a chargeback if any online product seller is unresponsive.

                            for protecting their customers from such unethical vendor practices, predatory behavior, and fraud.
                            Once again, the customers of the vendors who use ClickBank's services are not ClickBank's customers, and since ClickBank has let some vendors sell miracle cures and gambling system scams for years, "protecting" is also not the word I would use.

                            Now, in regards to how ClickBank treats their actual customers, the vendors and affiliates who use their services, they certainly aren't protecting them from unethical practices either. Quite the contrary - ClickBank is engaging in unethical and abusive practices, which has been discussed thoroughly in this thread.
                            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10389634].message }}
                            • Profile picture of the author myob
                              Originally Posted by Jon Patrick View Post

                              At this point I'm beginning to think you must be trolling.
                              LOL! Your position is so absurd and untenable, you have now stooped to a new low (even for a vendor) by using such an allegation. Look at it this way then. If your product bombs out, does Clickbank give you a refund of your registration fee? Real customers are assured a 90-day unconditional 100% money-back guarantee.

                              Clickbank makes nearly all of their money from customer sales, not from vendors. Clickbank actually buys the product from vendors at a discount (7.5%), then sells it to customers at full price plus any applicable taxes or VAT. And if affiliates are involved in the sales process or JV arrangements, commissions are distributed by Clickbank, not vendors.

                              Clickbank legally takes possession of the products, just as any other online/offline retailer, which effectively eliminates future vendor recourse such as customer service issues, refunds, etc. They judiciously protect their customers (ie buyers) from fraud, nefarious vendors, and even from dishonest or inept affiliates through a robust customer service department.

                              So, your childish tirade against Clickbank's supposedly "hostile takeover" of vendor websites, "unethical and abusive practices", "stealing traffic", etc is so ludicrous it makes many of us double over in laughter. Don't let the door hit you in the a$$ on your way out.
                              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10390131].message }}
                              • Profile picture of the author Sid Hale
                                Originally Posted by myob View Post

                                Clickbank makes nearly all of their money from customer sales, not from vendors. Clickbank actually buys the product from vendors at a discount (7.5%), then sells it to customers at full price plus any applicable taxes or VAT. And if affiliates are involved in the sales process or JV arrangements, commissions are distributed by Clickbank, not vendors.
                                ?????

                                Clickbank does NOT buy the product for a discount. Don't know where you're getting that drivel.

                                The 7.5% is NOT a payment to the vendor, but rather a processing fee that ClickBank deducts (and retains) from the sales amount prior to distributing the remainder to the vendor and/or the affiliate, as approriate.

                                Clickbank legally takes possession of the products, just as any other online/offline retailer, which effectively eliminates future vendor recourse such as customer service issues, refunds, etc. They judiciously protect their customers (ie buyers) from fraud, nefarious vendors, and even from dishonest or inept affiliates through a robust customer service department.
                                ...and delivery of the product? How do they handle that????

                                Unlike any other online/offline retailer. They DO NOT stock the product, nor do they deliver the product to the retail customer.

                                They engage sales reps (affliates) to sell on their behalf, but the commission percentages are set by the vendor and payment of those commissions (when applicable) come out of the vendors sales price.

                                ClickBank runs the cash register.
                                Signature

                                Sid Hale
                                Coming Soon... Rapid Action Profits (Pro)

                                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10390305].message }}
                              • Profile picture of the author Jon Patrick
                                Originally Posted by myob View Post

                                LOL! Your position is so absurd and untenable,
                                I and many others in this thread have clearly enumerated the problems with ClickBank's actions. There is nothing absurd or untenable about my position.

                                you have now stooped to a new low (even for a vendor)
                                And with that statement, the reason for your bizarre and illogical rants is finally clear. You should do a better job of concealing your prejudice (and a quite bemusing prejudice, at that) if you want to be taken seriously by rational people.

                                by using such an allegation.
                                If you possess a firm grasp of the English language, it should have been clear to you that my statement about you "trolling" was meant to highlight the absurdity of the position you had taken which I had subsequently refuted. I am, unfortunately, quite sure that you're not trolling, but rather that you sincerely are very deluded about this issue.

                                Look at it this way then. If your product bombs out, does Clickbank give you a refund of your registration fee? Real customers are assured a 90-day unconditional 100% money-back guarantee.
                                There are many companies that offer services to businesses and don't refund the money if the business's product "bombs out." That doesn't mean the businesses are not their customers.

                                And when ClickBank makes refunds available to a vendor's customers on the terms you mentioned, after processing payments on behalf of the vendor, ClickBank is doing so to cover their own asses as the payment processor.

                                Clickbank makes nearly all of their money from customer sales, not from vendors.
                                A much more accurate way to say this is that they make nearly all of their money from processing sales on behalf of the vendors who use their payment processing service, from which they earn a fee.

                                Clickbank actually buys the product from vendors at a discount (7.5%), then sells it to customers at full price plus any applicable taxes or VAT.
                                You can only believe this if you confuse legalese with actual reality.

                                The reality is that a product seller (vendor) creates a product and a website, visitors come to that website, some of them decide to buy the product, the vendor uses ClickBank's payment processing service to process those sales (paying ClickBank a fee to do so), the vendor delivers the product, and the vendor provides support. These vendors have sought out a payment processing and affiliate management service and decided to use ClickBank. They are ClickBank's customers.

                                The people who buy products from the vendors, on the other hand, are the vendors' customers. They have sought out the vendors' products, made a decision while on the vendors' websites to purchase those products, received those products from the vendors, and received support after the sale from the vendors.

                                Reality over legalese.

                                And if affiliates are involved in the sales process or JV arrangements, commissions are distributed by Clickbank, not vendors.
                                When ClickBank processes a sale on behalf of a vendor, they pay the vendor's set commission to the affiliate if an affiliate is involved. This is part of their affiliate management service.

                                Clickbank legally takes possession of the products,
                                Only in the world of obscure, reality-defying legalese do they take possession of anything. In reality, buyers receive the products from the vendors they bought them from.

                                which effectively eliminates future vendor recourse such as customer service issues, refunds, etc.
                                I have no idea what you think you're talking about here. Most customer service issues and refund requests are handled by the vendor. Only if the vendor is unresponsive does ClickBank default to refunding the customer, but a customer's bank will do the same thing. That doesn't make them a retailer.

                                They judiciously protect their customers (ie buyers) from fraud, nefarious vendors,
                                They've allowed miracle cures and gambling system scams to be sold through their payment processing service for years. YEARS.

                                and even from dishonest or inept affiliates through a robust customer service department.
                                See above about their limited involvement in customer service issues.

                                So, your childish tirade against Clickbank's supposedly "hostile takeover" of vendor websites, "unethical and abusive practices", "stealing traffic", etc is so ludicrous it makes many of us double over in laughter.
                                Wait a second. Until now, you've only been quibbling about whether the vendors who seek out and use ClickBank's services are their customers. That's a truly silly argument, but it's quite different from what you've just said in this quote. Are you now claiming that:

                                - ClickBank did not demand that all of the vendors who use their services put ClickBank's header and branding at the top of their websites?

                                - ClickBank did not put a link to their own "marketplace" in this header, which would steal the vendors' and affiliates' traffic and siphon it away into said "marketplace?"

                                - ClickBank did not attempt to redirect vendors' websites into an IFRAME and replace every vendor's domain name with a ClickBank URL?

                                I don't know who the "many of us" are that you're referring to, but we all saw the numerous announcements, blog posts and emails from ClickBank on this subject. They did indeed attempt to do these things. If you deny this, you are truly unhinged from reality.

                                Even now, after ClickBank had to put some of this on hold due to the backlash they received, they are still trying to force vendors to put ClickBank's brand at the top of their websites.

                                And while I see many people throughout this thread and elsewhere who are outraged about ClickBank's actions, and I see ClickBank issuing press releases in response to the backlash, I don't see the "many of us" you're talking about.

                                Don't let the door hit you in the a$$ on your way out.
                                Didn't you just attempt to call me childish?
                                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10390788].message }}
                                • Profile picture of the author myob
                                  Originally Posted by Jon Patrick View Post

                                  Wait a second. Until now, you've only been quibbling about whether the vendors who seek out and use ClickBank's services are their customers. That's a truly silly argument, but it's quite different from what you've just said in this quote. Are you now claiming that:

                                  - ClickBank did not demand that all of the vendors who use their services put ClickBank's header and branding at the top of their websites?

                                  - ClickBank did not put a link to their own "marketplace" in this header, which would steal the vendors' and affiliates' traffic and siphon it away into said "marketplace?"

                                  - ClickBank did not attempt to redirect vendors' websites into an IFRAME and replace every vendor's domain name with a ClickBank URL?
                                  What I'm saying is that Clickbank has a legal right for these courses of action, which you had to agree to upon becoming a vendor. It is not a "silly argument" regarding Clickbank's relationship with the parties involved, because their position is well established and published.

                                  Despite your outrageous insistence, vendors have no basis for claiming to be Clickbank customers, and have no recourse rights to new policies, as specified in the TOS.

                                  Vendors are not considered customers, nor are affiliates. They are clients and independent representatives, respectively. As a product retailer, Clickbank's customers are those who purchase products supplied by clients, which may be from the marketplace, Clickbank's in-house promotions/advertising, or through affiliates.

                                  In my experience with Clickbank over the years, the primary focus has always been a commitment to provide product buyers with a safe and quality customer experience as well as to protect their reputation as a reliable retailer. It is quite apparent that Clickbank is attempting to correct a recent deficit in this customer trust factor.

                                  Originally Posted by Sid Hale View Post


                                  Clickbank does NOT buy the product for a discount. Don't know where you're getting that drivel.
                                  Source: Clickbank Support - Fees

                                  "Each time you sell a product through ClickBank, without respect to the location of the buyer, we purchase the product from you at wholesale price, which for standard products is 92.5% of the approved retail price, less a $1 transaction fee. Therefore, on each sale ClickBank effectively keeps 7.5% plus $1.

                                  Here's an example:

                                  Your product sells for $100.

                                  ClickBank purchases the product from you for $91.50. (92.5% of $100, minus a $1 transaction fee)

                                  You have chosen to pay a commission of 50%, so 50% of the remainder goes to the referring affiliate, which equals $45.75.

                                  You earn $45.75 on the sale."


                                  Originally Posted by Jon Patrick View Post

                                  I and many others in this thread have clearly enumerated the problems with ClickBank's actions. There is nothing absurd or untenable about my position.
                                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10391031].message }}
                                  • Profile picture of the author Okane
                                    You are both right.

                                    From my long time vendor perspective:

                                    (1) Clickbank is a retailer.
                                    Yes.
                                    This is very clear when I prepare my yearly tax declaration. I only have ONE customer that I report to the tax authority and that is Clickbank.

                                    (2) Clickbank is just a payment processor.
                                    Yes.
                                    This is very clear every single day of my working life.
                                    I create content for my service,
                                    I deliver it to the customers,
                                    I answer the support requests,
                                    I run promotions,
                                    I do pretty much EVERYTHING.

                                    In my daily life, Clickbank is (practically) nothing more than a payment processor.
                                    From a legal standpoint, Clickbank is obviously the retailer of my product.

                                    Why is there so much to argue about this?

                                    The only reason I will stay with Clickbank (for now) is (1) mentioned above.
                                    For a simple payment processor, there are numerous (likely better) solutions around.
                                    Signature

                                    signature is on holiday

                                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10391212].message }}
                                    • Profile picture of the author Jon Patrick
                                      Originally Posted by Okane View Post

                                      You are both right.

                                      From my long time vendor perspective:

                                      (1) Clickbank is a retailer.
                                      Yes.
                                      This is very clear when I prepare my yearly tax declaration. I only have ONE customer that I report to the tax authority and that is Clickbank.
                                      This tax structure is helpful when using their payment processing service, but I wouldn't agree that it makes them a retailer except when discussing legal technicalities. As you mention in (2) below, the people who come to your website and buy your product from you are your customers in every practical sense.

                                      (2) Clickbank is just a payment processor.
                                      Yes.
                                      This is very clear every single day of my working life.
                                      I create content for my service,
                                      I deliver it to the customers,
                                      I answer the support requests,
                                      I run promotions,
                                      I do pretty much EVERYTHING.

                                      In my daily life, Clickbank is (practically) nothing more than a payment processor.
                                      From a legal standpoint, Clickbank is obviously the retailer of my product.

                                      Why is there so much to argue about this?
                                      I wish there wasn't.

                                      Our friend myob thinks ClickBank's attempt to redefine what a "customer" and a "retailer" are in their legal technicalities is more relevant than the actual customer/seller relationship between a product seller and his or her customers (who are the product buyers), and ClickBank and its customers (who are the product sellers using its services).

                                      He further believes that it's fine for ClickBank to engage in the unethical behavior they've been engaging in, despite the fact that it has caused such widespread outrage among everyone else that ClickBank was forced to issue a press release and put some aspects of their scheme on hold (for now).

                                      In addition, he has displayed a surprising and befuddling prejudice against product sellers in general, which I can only suspect is the reason he is happy to see ClickBank abusing them.

                                      As a product seller myself, I can't help but find his arguments objectionable. Hence, a lively debate has ensued.

                                      The only reason I will stay with Clickbank (for now) is (1) mentioned above.
                                      For a simple payment processor, there are numerous (likely better) solutions around.
                                      You're not alone. Any sensible product seller who hasn't already made the decision to leave ClickBank is likely on the same page, staying with them for now only because of that or similar issues. Competing payment processors may need to be coupled with third-party solutions for handling such things in order to allow for a smooth migration away from ClickBank.
                                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10391315].message }}
                                    • Profile picture of the author Sid Hale
                                      Originally Posted by myob View Post

                                      What I'm saying is that Clickbank has a legal right for these courses of action, which you had to agree to upon becoming a vendor. It is not a "silly argument" regarding Clickbank's relationship with the parties involved, because their position is well established and published.
                                      Feel free to go back and re-read this thread in it's entirety. No where has anyone ever said that what ClickBank is doing/has tried to do is illegal.

                                      I'll wait.

                                      Originally Posted by myob View Post

                                      Despite your outrageous insistence, vendors have no basis for claiming to be Clickbank customers, and have no recourse rights to new policies, as specified in the TOS.

                                      Vendors are not considered customers, nor are affiliates. They are clients and independent representatives, respectively. As a product retailer, Clickbank's customers are those who purchase products supplied by clients, which may be from the marketplace, Clickbank's in-house promotions/advertising, or through affiliates.
                                      A vendor's basis for claiming to be a ClickBank customer is the 7.5% fee CB charges per transaction. Yes, I understand that they have cloaked that by pretending that it is the result of a discount price to ClickBank, and I understand that ClickBank vendors agreed to that sales agreement by accepting their Terms of Service.

                                      After all... they never take possession of the product that they supposedly pay "wholesale prices" for, nor do they deliver it to the ultimate purchaser. It's a simple pass thru/distribution of funds as a third party payment processor.

                                      No one is arguing that they don't deserve those fees, but everyone (well most of us, anyway) realize that it is indeed a fee, rather than a discount off the retail price.

                                      Originally Posted by myob View Post

                                      Vendors are not considered customers... They are clients
                                      FYI
                                      customers = clients

                                      Feel free to expound on any situation where this is not true.
                                      Signature

                                      Sid Hale
                                      Coming Soon... Rapid Action Profits (Pro)

                                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10391581].message }}
                                      • Profile picture of the author myob
                                        Originally Posted by Sid Hale View Post

                                        Feel free to go back and re-read this thread in it's entirety. No where has anyone ever said that what ClickBank is doing/has tried to do is illegal.

                                        I'll wait.
                                        I won't keep you waiting long. Thanks for making this point so clear, and I agree.


                                        Originally Posted by Sid Hale View Post

                                        A vendor's basis for claiming to be a ClickBank customer is the 7.5% fee CB charges per transaction. Yes, I understand that they have cloaked that by pretending that it is the result of a discount price to ClickBank, and I understand that ClickBank vendors agreed to that sales agreement by accepting their Terms of Service.

                                        After all... they never take possession of the product that they supposedly pay "wholesale prices" for, nor do they deliver it to the ultimate purchaser. It's a simple pass thru/distribution of funds as a third party payment processor.

                                        No one is arguing that they don't deserve those fees, but everyone (well most of us, anyway) realize that it is indeed a fee, rather than a discount off the retail price.
                                        Among the many services that Clickbank provides their vendor clients includes not just handling the payment processing, but they also pay applicable retail sales tax/VAT, product refunds to retail customers, commissions to affiliates, commissions to vendor JV partners, 1099 or equivalents as required by law on behalf of vendors, etc. The legal reality is that in order for Clickbank to provide these comprehensive services, they must show possession of the products. None of these services can be accomplished legally without having direct control of the products, for which Clickbank buys from vendors at 92.5% of the retail price (plus a $1 transaction fee) applied when a retail purchase is made.


                                        Originally Posted by Sid Hale View Post

                                        FYI
                                        customers = clients

                                        Feel free to expound on any situation where this is not true.
                                        Certainly. Once again, you are only partially correct in this context. Clickbank does make clear distinctions between their retail customers, business customers (ie "vendors") and affiliates. Their TOS and specific handling procedures apply to these associations quite differently. A prominent example is Clickbank's very aggressive retail customer protection policies, which have a much different effect on vendors and affiliates. Another example is the (non-refundable) registration fee charged to vendors along with specific TOS constraints, which are not applicable to Clickbank's retail customers.
                                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10391822].message }}
                                  • Profile picture of the author Jon Patrick
                                    Originally Posted by myob View Post

                                    What I'm saying is that Clickbank has a legal right for these courses of action,
                                    Is your argument that they didn't attempt to conduct a hostile takeover of their vendors' websites, steal their vendors' and affiliates' traffic, and engage in the other unethical and abusive actions discussed in this thread... as you argued in your last post when you said that was "ludicrous"...

                                    Or is your argument that ClickBank has a legal right to do these things?

                                    I've addressed the former thoroughly. I'll be happy to address the latter, then, by making clear for what must be the tenth time that I'm not talking about legalese. Any service provider, GoDaddy for example, has a legal right to demand just about anything they want from those who use their service, no matter how ridiculous or abusive it is, and threaten to shut off their service if they don't comply. But ethical companies are careful about how they wield this leverage.

                                    The way ClickBank has attempted to use this leverage is unethical, abusive, and wrong. This isn't legalese, this is reality. There is a reason they were forced to put some of it on hold in response to the outrage it caused.

                                    Despite your outrageous insistence, vendors have no basis for claiming to be Clickbank customers, and have no recourse rights to new policies, as specified in the TOS.
                                    Right, you've told us this already. The people who seek out and use ClickBank's services are not their customers. It's the people who have never heard of ClickBank, have no clue what they do, have shown zero interest in being their customers, and only ever come into contact with them if a vendor uses ClickBank's payment processing service, who are really ClickBank's customers.

                                    After all, the legalese in their Terms of Service says it, so it must be true.

                                    Vendors are not considered customers, nor are affiliates. They are clients and independent representatives, respectively. As a product retailer, Clickbank's customers are those who purchase products supplied by clients,
                                    See above.

                                    which may be from the marketplace, Clickbank's in-house promotions/advertising, or through affiliates.
                                    I love how you put the "marketplace" and in-house promotions first in an overblown attempt to make it seem like ClickBank drives sales on any meaningful level. They do not, and everyone knows this. I assume you know this as well, and are simply being intellectually dishonest. If not, then you are woefully uninformed and ill-prepared to discuss this topic.

                                    In my experience with Clickbank over the years, the primary focus has always been a commitment to provide product buyers with a safe and quality customer experience
                                    They have been in the business of providing a payment processing and affiliate management service, and hosting a support ticket system for vendors who use their services. My company has used their services extensively.

                                    The concept of a consumer-oriented marketplace is a recent development, and their only interaction with buyers over the years (other than processing the payments for vendors who use their services) has been to hand out refunds to buyers if the vendor is unresponsive, which only makes sense as they are the payment processor for the sale. A buyer's bank will do the same in the form of a chargeback.

                                    Of course, the fact that they've allowed miracle cures and gambling system scams to be sold through their payment processing service for years also calls into question your claim that their focus has been on providing buyers "a safe and quality customer experience."

                                    as well as to protect their reputation as a reliable retailer. It is quite apparent that Clickbank is attempting to correct a recent deficit in this customer trust factor.
                                    Other than their reputation among the vendors and affiliates who use their services, which has certainly suffered badly from their unethical behavior, they have no reputation. Certainly not as a retailer. Consumers in general don't know anything about ClickBank and have no interaction with them unless they buy something from a vendor who uses ClickBank's payment processing service.

                                    Source: Clickbank Support - Fees

                                    "Each time you sell a product through ClickBank, without respect to the location of the buyer, we purchase the product from you at wholesale price, which for standard products is 92.5% of the approved retail price, less a $1 transaction fee. Therefore, on each sale ClickBank effectively keeps 7.5% plus $1.
                                    I'm well aware of the legal pretzel ClickBank twists themselves into in order to label themselves a "retailer," when by any rational analysis they are merely a payment processing and affiliate management service that charges a fee of 7.5% plus $1. It should be clear to you by now that I and most others who have participated in this thread care more about reality than legalese.
                                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10391268].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author Jon Patrick
                  Originally Posted by myob View Post

                  In every sense of the term, Clickbank is the retailer. Vendors are nothing more than suppliers. The sales process is handled by Clickbank.
                  That's strange, because it's me who creates and hosts the website where the product is sold. It's me or an affiliate who attracts potential buyers to my website. It's me who convinces those potential buyers to actually buy the product once they are on my website. It's me who delivers the product when they buy it. And it's me who provides support after the sale (above and beyond simple refund requests).

                  Tell me again how ClickBank handles the sales process?

                  They provide payment processing and affiliate management services. These are the facts. Designating themselves as a "retailer" in their legal terms is pure legalese.

                  Affiliates are protected by anonymity from vendors,
                  They are kept anonymous so that the traffic has to continue going through ClickBank's hoplinks, and vendors and affiliates can't link up outside the system where ClickBank wouldn't make money from the transactions. I don't have a problem with that particular concept, but let's be accurate about what's happening.

                  and commissions are paid by Clickbank.
                  I sell a product on my website to a customer who I have attracted and convinced to buy that product, and I deliver that product and provide support after the sale. I pay ClickBank a percentage to process the sale, and I pay an affiliate a percentage if there is an affiliate involved. Legalese is legalese, and reality is reality. Try to understand the difference between the two.

                  Vendors are totally irrelevant in the affiliate approval
                  So is ClickBank, because there is no affiliate approval process. Affiliates are automatically approved. However, vendors can have affiliates barred from promoting their products, and vendors can recruit affiliates themselves and have them send traffic through ClickBank for tracking.

                  as well as the Clickbank transaction process. Sales taxes/VAT, income tax reporting,
                  Helpful add-ons for their payment processing service.

                  customer service issues,
                  I handle the majority of these.

                  customer support (ticket system),
                  A customer support ticket system is merely a service when I am the one using it to provide support. Hosting a customer support ticket system does not a retailer make.

                  fraud prevention,
                  Payment processing.

                  and refunds (due to vendor default) are all handled by Clickbank.
                  If any online product seller is unresponsive and a customer goes to their bank, their bank will process a refund for them in the form of a chargeback. Is their bank now a retailer?

                  You should have read their TOS before becoming a vendor, instead of bitching and whining about the system.
                  Let's be clear about this. My company has processed hundreds of thousands of dollars in sales through ClickBank as a product seller. There is little to no chance that you have anything to teach me about ClickBank's operations or TOS, and your latest post bears that out.

                  Now, you can continue with your childish and abrasive language, or you can behave like an adult, but I will continue to sound the alarm when I see the kind of unethical behavior ClickBank is currently engaging in.

                  Then, you should perhaps exercise those other options.
                  If you had actually read the thread, you would be aware that this is a decision which has already been made.
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10385762].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Eagle07
        I agree with all the concerns presented by the OP and I think if Clickbank would insist on doing this, a lot of vendors will try other platforms to use and affiliates will have to follow.

        This will not be a good for Clickbank
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10590370].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author trevord92
      Originally Posted by agmccall View Post

      Now with warrior plus hosting sales pages independent of the warrior forum I think lots of vendors will move there. I hope they do as the simple metrics such as # of sales and refund rate% spelled out in black and white are extremely important for affiliates.

      If warrior plus or jvzoo could capture some of the "Other than IM" niches it could be a real game changer and eye opener for clickbank

      al
      Agreed - there's a gaping hole in the market waiting for someone to step in!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10292826].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Originally Posted by agmccall View Post

      Now with warrior plus hosting sales pages independent of the warrior forum I think lots of vendors will move there. I hope they do as the simple metrics such as # of sales and refund rate% spelled out in black and white are extremely important for affiliates.

      If warrior plus or jvzoo could capture some of the "Other than IM" niches it could be a real game changer and eye opener for clickbank

      al
      Contrary to what many think, I have been increasingly pleased with Warrior + and think they have a really good system in place !
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10293215].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author nicheblogger75
        Originally Posted by discrat View Post

        Contrary to what many think, I have been increasingly pleased with Warrior + and think they have a really good system in place !
        I agree. I love Warrior Plus. It's easy to use and has all the functionality I need (and more). Also, I find it to be the easiest network when it comes to recruiting affiliates, followed closely by JVZoo.

        The only thing I would change about Warrior Plus is their offer approval process. It is rather slow.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10294406].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Responster
    While I understand how they're trying to spin this, it seems like they're going to shoot themselves in the foot by not just providing this as invisible code that doesn't disrupt a visual experience. That said, I'm kind of glad I moved away from CB a while ago.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10294418].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Mike Hill
    What makes me wonder is all of the top 10 ClickBank products do not have this implemented as of yet. today is the first day and, according to ClickBank, must have this implemented starting today.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10294893].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author TweetPilot
      Originally Posted by Mike Hill View Post

      What makes me wonder is all of the top 10 ClickBank products do not have this implemented as of yet. today is the first day and, according to ClickBank, must have this implemented starting today.
      Not the case Mike.

      Some vendors, I assume their top/premium ones or whatever they're calling them today have received an email and part of that states:

      "As a valued ClickBank client, we want to remind you that you are NOT required to add the JavaScript to your marketing funnel at this time. Between now and November 23rd, we will continue to test several versions of the Always On Shopping Portal header before you're required to make any change."

      So they're shitting on the new vendors first to test it out before they then screw everyone.
      Signature
      TweetPilot - Our New App Making it Easy to Gain Followers on Twitter... Coming Soon!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10294903].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author mpakii
    I don't know about you but all of mine affiliate links stopped working today...
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10294904].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author julesw
    I never added any code but it appeared on 2 of my sites just a few hours back .. it's slow to load and stops my OP2 countdown timer showing and Overlay Exit intent form too!
    Signature
    WIN my Lanparte Smartphone or GoPro Gimbal! Get Ready Get Steady! Watch my Video Here:
    VideoHero.com/win
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10294972].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author SunilTanna
      Originally Posted by julesw View Post

      I never added any code but it appeared on 2 of my sites just a few hours back .. it's slow to load and stops my OP2 countdown timer showing and Overlay Exit intent form too!
      It shows up if you reach the site via a hop link

      My understanding is that the javascript you're supposed to add, will make it show-up however a visitor reaches your site. For example, even if you pay to advertise your own website on facebook or bing or something - or you print your URL on T-shirts - you need to give-up the top portion of every webpage on your site to ClickBank's banner thingy..
      Signature
      ClickBank Vendor?
      - Protect Your Thank You Pages & Downloads
      - Give Your Affiliates Multiple Landing Pages (Video Demo)
      - Killer Graphics for Your Site
      SPECIAL WSO PRICES FOR WARRIORS + GET THE "CLICKBANK DISCOUNT" TOO!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10294983].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author julesw
        Originally Posted by SunilTanna View Post

        It shows up if you reach the site via a hop link

        My understanding is that the javascript you're supposed to add, will make it show-up however a visitor reaches your site. For example, even if you pay to advertise your own website on facebook or bing or something - or you print your URL on T-shirts - you need to give-up the top portion of every webpage on your site to ClickBank's banner thingy..
        even worse ...
        Signature
        WIN my Lanparte Smartphone or GoPro Gimbal! Get Ready Get Steady! Watch my Video Here:
        VideoHero.com/win
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10294989].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author leilani
    CB must have a reason for doing this that is not apparent. Clickbank will do it whether we have something to say or not. We have a choice to stay or leave CB.

    I'm with John McCabe. Make your best decision and move on. Think of what's best for your business. Either CB is going to be better or there is someone else that will come up with an even better idea.

    Leilani
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10295392].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author trevord92
      Originally Posted by leilani View Post

      CB must have a reason for doing this that is not apparent. Clickbank will do it whether we have something to say or not. We have a choice to stay or leave CB.
      I'm with John McCabe. Make your best decision and move on. Think of what's best for your business. Either CB is going to be better or there is someone else that will come up with an even better idea.
      Leilani
      Agreed - it's their business and their decision.

      Personally, I'm running away from them as fast as possible.

      I don't like it that the banner (at least when I looked) had a link to the CB marketplace that didn't give me commission on anything when clicks leak out.

      There are a few programs on CB that I have successfully promoted and I'm going to send the vendors a message asking if they are on alternative platforms so that I can continue to promote them.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10295449].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author joaquin112
    I've wanted to get away from ClickBank for a while, but I delayed it because my income was growing and there was no real reason to leave them. This just makes it an easy decision to do it now.
    Signature

    Let me get leads for your business for you. Click here to learn more.. I build huge e-mail lists at an affordable price.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10296192].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author TweetPilot
    Ultimate Azon Theme | ClickBank - Vanished?

    And the bar has vanished? Any clues?
    Signature
    TweetPilot - Our New App Making it Easy to Gain Followers on Twitter... Coming Soon!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10296266].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author SShaikh
    Hey all,
    I'm assuming there's not much I can do, as most of my clickbank affiliating has been email marketing..?
    There's no where to put this header on a page.

    I've been leaning towards JVZoo and a few others lately anyhows, so worst comes the worst it's not a major loss for me.
    Signature
    Discover how to get hiqh quality traffic and opt ins on your website
    Best of all... it's FREE! click here
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10296284].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author TheWebGuy
    I was in touch with a few of the top vendors on Clickbank and I know that this was crushing their products. For one product I'm an affiliate for my conversions went from about 8% all the way down to less than 1%.

    Media buyers were leaving, Vendors were looking for new networks ...but I hear Clickbank is reconsidering this horrible test. Thank God.

    Let's pray this never comes back. Make sure you contact Clickbank Client support (email or phone) and let them know how bad this was. If this would have continued my business would have been dead in a couple weeks. But seriously...this can never come back Clickbank! I hope you're listening.

    Some of the worlds greatest copywriters and digital marketers choose Clickbank because you all did a great job with affiliate management and Payment Processing ...and let us develop our brand!

    If you take over our sales pages, take over our URLs, start putting links on our sales pages that absolutey kill conversion ...everything that was great about Clickbank dies. I have built my business around Clickbank and I saw first hand how terrible this experiment went. Please don't bring this back (vendors and affiliates - make sure you let Clickbank know how you feel - or this will come back).
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10296305].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author julesw
      Originally Posted by TheWebGuy View Post

      I was in touch with a few of the top vendors on Clickbank and I know that this was crushing their products. For one product I'm an affiliate for my conversions went from about 8% all the way down to less than 1%.

      Media buyers were leaving, Vendors were looking for new networks ...but I hear Clickbank is reconsidering this horrible test. Thank God.

      Let's pray this never comes back. Make sure you contact Clickbank Client support (email or phone) and let them know how bad this was. If this would have continued my business would have been dead in a couple weeks. But seriously...this can never come back Clickbank! I hope you're listening.

      Some of the worlds greatest copywriters and digital marketers choose Clickbank because you all did a great job with affiliate management and Payment Processing ...and let us develop our brand!

      If you take over our sales pages, take over our URLs, start putting links on our sales pages that absolutey kill conversion ...everything that was great about Clickbank dies. I have built my business around Clickbank and I saw first hand how terrible this experiment went. Please don't bring this back (vendors and affiliates - make sure you let Clickbank know how you feel - or this will come back).

      Very well put!
      Signature
      WIN my Lanparte Smartphone or GoPro Gimbal! Get Ready Get Steady! Watch my Video Here:
      VideoHero.com/win
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10296342].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author DR0832
    I will not be using clickbank anymore after this change
    Signature

    Join A Top Affiliate Program About Penny Stock Trading: Earn 50% Commissions!

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10296382].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author TheWebGuy
      Originally Posted by DR0832 View Post

      I will not be using clickbank anymore after this change
      Don't give up yet! Clickbank is considering cancelling this horrible Always One header/URL takeover.

      But only because vendors and affiliates have been calling and emailing them today. Make sure you email or call them too. We can get this cancelled. Clickbank saw how terrible this performed ...and now they need to hear from you!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10296392].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Pnigro
        This header thing is the stupidest idea I've ever seen.

        And I'm no newbie, I've been making a living off Clickbank for the past 6 years. Thanks to Clickbank I bought a new house and traveled around the world.

        First of all, from a copywriting perspective, having a Clickbank header is the equivalent of going to a clothing store and seeing a big Coca Cola poster at the entrance, seriously wtf?

        Second, customers reach Clickbank products because they are looking for a solution to their particular problems. They are not interested in browsing a marketplace. Clickbank is NOT Amazon or Ebay.

        Third, most customers don't even know what Clickbank is. If anything, they will get confused by the header, not knowing what the hell is going on.

        Fourth, the sales page itself doesn't work properly. I can't use my arrow keys to move up and down the page, unless I click first on the content. This damages the user experience greatly.

        Fifth, no reputable Internet company uses frames like that anymore. This is not the year 2000.

        Sixth, the URL looks way too spammy. It not only removes the domain branding aspect of the products, but it even scares people.

        Seventh, for foreign languages, when people click on marketplace they are sent to the ENGLISH version of Clickbank. This is obviously a bug, but the whole thing is just madness. Speaking of foreign languages, latinos have absolutely no clue what Clickbank is. It is difficult enough already to sell to them, but now you are making it way more difficult. I can guarantee you that latinos will never EVER start browsing Clickbank marketplace with the intention of buying additional products.

        Eight and last, this header will never work, period. People won't start using Clickbank like they do Amazon. Stop trying to become something you're not. This change is affecting us all. It makes no sense.

        Please, for the love of God, cancel this horrible idea.

        Thanks for reading,
        A fellow Clickbank vendor and affiliate
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10296490].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author TheWebGuy
          Originally Posted by Pnigro View Post

          This header thing is the stupidest idea I've ever seen.

          And I'm no newbie, I've been making a living off Clickbank for the past 6 years. Thanks to Clickbank I bought a new house and traveled around the world.

          First of all, from a copywriting perspective, having a Clickbank header is the equivalent of going to a clothing store and seeing a big Coca Cola poster at the entrance, seriously wtf?

          Second, customers reach Clickbank products because they are looking for a solution to their particular problems. They are not interested in browsing a marketplace. Clickbank is NOT Amazon or Ebay.

          Third, most customers don't even know what Clickbank is. If anything, they will get confused by the header, not knowing what the hell is going on.

          Fourth, the sales page itself doesn't work properly. I can't use my arrow keys to move up and down the page, unless I click first on the content. This damages the user experience greatly.

          Fifth, no reputable Internet company uses frames like that anymore. This is not the year 2000.

          Sixth, the URL looks way too spammy. It not only removes the domain branding aspect of the products, but it even scares people.

          Seventh, for foreign languages, when people click on marketplace they are sent to the ENGLISH version of Clickbank. This is obviously a bug, but the whole thing is just madness. Speaking of foreign languages, latinos have absolutely no clue what Clickbank is. It is difficult enough already to sell to them, but now you are making it way more difficult. I can guarantee you that latinos will never EVER start browsing Clickbank marketplace with the intention of buying additional products.

          Eight and last, this header will never work, period. People won't start using Clickbank like they do Amazon. Stop trying to become something you're not. This change is affecting us all. It makes no sense.

          Please, for the love of God, cancel this horrible idea.

          Thanks for reading,
          A fellow Clickbank vendor and affiliate
          Spot on! If they need people to know they bought something through Clickbank ...include Clickbank on the buy now buttons or right below it "i.e. ...Secure Payment By Clickbank".

          Because another comparison is if someone goes to buy a product and that is sold through Paypal ...and the pitch page for the product has just a PayPal header. It makes no sense. It makes sense to be near the payment button/payment area if anything. Clickbank needs to position themselves a secure payment processor in consumers minds (like paypal) ...and continue to position themselves as a great affiliate network for affiliates and vendors.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10296504].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author YuanHao
    Great news! But, we still have to be careful. I'm already signing up to other services to see which ones are promising, as I just realized putting all my eggs in the Clickbank basket may not be the best idea.

    BOISE, August 26, 2015 – ClickBank, a global Internet retailer of digital products, today announced the appointment of Tricia Phillips as the new Chief Operating Officer. She brings more than a decade and a half of experience in the e-commerce, payment and risk management space.
    Could this have something to do with the new CEO? Maybe her "decade of experience" is from other styles of market and she is trying to force something without really understanding such basic concepts as delaying the pay button, sales funnel, presell, things that seem so trivial to any vendor or affiliate doing some thousands of bucks a month?
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10296464].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author TweetPilot
      She used to work for Visa. End of.
      Signature
      TweetPilot - Our New App Making it Easy to Gain Followers on Twitter... Coming Soon!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10296474].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Lucian Lada
    They canceled the test.

    Here's the email a friend of mine has just received from them:

    Hello,

    We are listening, and we hear you.

    Our testing with the iframe to extend brand recognition has been concluded. The vendor pitch pages that were included in the test will no longer show in an iframe for hop traffic.

    As a reminder of our previous communications, the performance marketing industry is undergoing significant changes as a result of the increase in online fraud, coinciding with the rollout of new embedded microchip credit cards. ClickBank is working closely with the payment brands and our partners to decrease one area of fraud and risk, associated with the lack of recognition of the ClickBank Internet Retailing brand by consumers, due to our unique marketing model with you our clients.

    We need your partnership in this.

    The ClickBank brand must be part of the funnel and at the top of any screen with a ClickBank payment link, to reduce the volume of consumers who report their charges as fraudulent due to the lack of awareness of the ClickBank brand. This is a problem that affects you as much as ClickBank since you lose revenue from the buyer, affiliate commissions are returned, and the consumer ultimately opts-out of future purchases or subscriptions from you.

    We are actively evaluating the data we gathered during our test to see what iterative changes should be made to the format and content of the header, though we will not serve it through an iframe. As we make modifications to our approach, we will keep you updated.

    Thank you again for the feedback. Our desire is to adapt our solutions and offering to best accommodate the needs of affiliates, vendors and consumers. We value our partnership with you and look forward to the next phase of our growth together.

    Best Regards,
    Lyz
    Client Service Manager
    Clickbank.com
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10296560].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author YuanHao
      Originally Posted by Lucian Lada View Post

      They canceled the test.

      Here's the email a friend of mine has just received from them:
      I think this basically means "we really screwed everything guys, so we'll try to cover up with some kind of story". It would be much easier for us if they told the truth and did something to remove that lady from VISA from our once beloved Clickbank.

      Anyway, a header and some link to Clickbank reducing conversions to any more than 20% is a complete turn off for me. Too much money on the line.

      They should control vendors with bad refunds and chargebacks. My refunds and chargebacks are less than 2% and less than 1% respectively, so in reality refunds have nothing to do with the brand and everything to do with the vendor. It's unacceptable that vendors are using shady tactics directly involving them in refund rates of 5% or 10%, seriously?
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10296580].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Lucian Lada
        Originally Posted by YuanHao View Post

        I think this basically means "we really screwed everything guys, so we'll try to cover up with some kind of story". It would be much easier for us if they told the truth and did something to remove that lady from VISA from our once beloved Clickbank.
        The main problem is that they didn't give up completely. They want to bring it back in the future, as stated in the email.

        But yeah, their entire explanation makes no sense.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10296593].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Pnigro
    "The ClickBank brand must be part of the funnel and at the top of any screen with a ClickBank payment link, to reduce the volume of consumers who report their charges as fraudulent due to the lack of awareness of the ClickBank brand."

    There are many possible solutions to this, none of which involve messing up the product sales pages.

    For example, changing the credit card statement so that people recognize their purchase when they see it on their account.

    It is not a good idea to brand every sales page with Clickbank, especially foreign products. But more importantly, it won't reduce the number of chargebacks and refunds.

    Seriously, they are way off with this.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10296614].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
      Many of the entries on statements are vague or unclear abbreviations, often of corporate names and not the 'brand name' on a store.

      How could it be that ClickBank is getting pounded because whenever someone sees 'Clickbank' they think of fraud? CB said they had one of the most trusted and reputable names.

      Does any other company have this problem?

      I've seen companies with obscure initials as names have thousands of online transactions without this type of issue.

      Solutions:

      - Change the name. Clickbank has a bad reputation and the name hardly induces trust. The excuse could be a more international name, or one recognizing with mobile devices people are tapping and not clicking.

      - Get the Clickbank name up to 90 point font in blinking red letters on the order page letting buyers know that is what is showing up on statements.

      - Do a better job dealing with fraud complaints by collecting and showing the date, IP address, name and address of the buyer to show they ordered the product.

      With the giveaway refund policy it's surprising any buyers need to make a fraud complaint with the possible risk and hassle of having their card canceled and reissued.

      .
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10296706].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Stephen Carter
    in addition to the fact that ClickBank is doing away with the iframe (which is huge) this bit sounds promising "The ClickBank brand must be part of the funnel and at the top of any screen with a ClickBank payment link"

    that means one approach might be to use a sandwich page between the sales page and the ClickBank order page - one that explains the nature of ClickBank and satisfies all of the ClickBank branding concerns.

    it might even improve the conversion rates if it is done properly as it will make the CB order page just one more step in the overall payment process. many vendors already go to the trouble of spelling out exactly what is going to happen on the ClickBank order page (what the customer can expect to see there, etc) so doing all this on a sandwich page (with the header) could keep all the ClickBank branding off the sales page and yet still satisfy ClickBank by making it absolutely clear to the customer who ClickBank is and what the service is they provide. better yet ClickBank could do all this themselves and just add a "presell" page to their order process. then NOTHING would need to be changed on any of the vendor sites.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10296696].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author jasondinner
    That "clickbank" branding bs they are spewing is just that - BS.

    You can't buy any product in the clickbank marketplace without first submitting your payment information and agreeing to the terms on a CLICKBANK BRANDED ORDER PAGE.

    If anything maybe put clickbank branding on order buttons kind of like JV Zoo does, but don't ruin the sales process by putting a big banner across the top of the sales page.

    That is just flat out idiotic. Talk about cutting off your nose despite your face.

    They should have known this would kill conversions. Surely they test their own funnels right? or yeah right!
    Signature

    "Human thoughts have the tendency to transform themselves into their physical equivalent." Earl Nightingale

    Super Affiliates Hang Out Here

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10296723].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author ClickBank
      Hi All,

      Hopefully I can provide a bit of clarity to some of the comments in this thread and others that I have seen, regarding our iframe test. First, I want to note that for the sake of brevity, I will not post full quotes with links to each comment, but rather capture and paraphrase the gist of what was stated. I do apologize in advance if you feel I have taken something out of context and will be happy to correct that mistake.

      To begin with, I want to address a number of points that have been suggested:

      1. ClickBank made this change under the advice of a brand consultant or out of a brand building exercise.
      2. ClickBank is attempting to build technology to steal commissions.
      3. ClickBank is getting rid of all health and fitness products
      4. The iframe test "crushed conversions and sales for everyone"... for top vendors, it "crushed their products"
      5. ClickBank is dying
      6. ClickBank is a payment processor
      7. The iframe test broke the affiliate links
      8. ClickBank will implement this change whether people have something to say about it or not.
      9. The added links to the iframe header sent so much traffic away from the pitch page
      10. ClickBank ended this test because of how terrible it performed (e.g., conversions, sales)
      11. This has something to do with the new CEO
      12. This has something to do with the new COO formerly employed by Visa
      13. Some conversions were reduced by 20%
      14. ClickBank's plan is to gather all the traffic sent to them and then put those consumers on a mailing list to sell to.
      15. Customers now have to opt-in to 2 separate mail lists
      16. This change was never about reducing fraud. It was purely to spread ClickBank's brand at the expense of all vendors.

      Every statement I paraphrased above is completely false.

      Some other statements that I have seen which I would like to address:

      1. This can never come back ClickBank! I hope you're listening.
      2. ClickBank needs to wake up now and fix this.
      3. If they need people to know they've bought something through ClickBank ...include ClickBank on the buy now buttons or right below it
      4. I would imagine that this conversation is taking place in other forums and groups that ClickBank employees are part of as well

      We are listening and we hear you. We are paying attention to what is being said in tickets that our support team receives. We are observing the various forums and groups where people are responding to these changes. We are listening as we talk to you directly. You may have received or seen an email (pasted below this post) that we sent out regarding the cessation of our iframe test.

      In all of our communications, we have been clear that there is a movement of fraud online that is creating risk for your business and our business. The impacts of this will affect the entire performance marketing space, not just ClickBank. We have been working closely with the payments industry and our clients to find workable solutions to these issues.

      Unlike some of the theories we have seen regarding this change being about brand awareness, the reality is that we are targeting one very real, growing and specific risk area where consumers are confused by the ClickBank name on their credit card statements.

      To that end, we have been reading and discussing your suggestions such as:

      1. One approach might be to use a sandwich page between the sales page and the ClickBank order page
      2. Change the soft descriptor to be more clear about the product association from the purchase
      3. Put ClickBank on the Buy Now buttons or right below it.

      We are always interested in hearing from and working with our clients to grow business together.

      Thanks,
      The ClickBank Team

      Below follows the email referenced above:
      ================================
      Dear Clients,

      We are listening, and we hear you.

      Our testing with the iframe to extend brand recognition has been concluded. The vendor pitch pages that were included in the test will no longer show in an iframe for hop traffic.

      As a reminder of our previous communications, the performance marketing industry is undergoing significant changes as a result of the increase in online fraud, coinciding with the rollout of new embedded microchip credit cards. ClickBank is working closely with the payment brands and our partners to decrease one area of fraud and risk, associated with the lack of recognition of the ClickBank Internet Retailing brand by consumers, due to our unique marketing model with you our clients.

      We need your partnership in this.

      The ClickBank brand must be part of the funnel and at the top of any screen with a ClickBank payment link, to reduce the volume of consumers who report their charges as fraudulent due to the lack of awareness of the ClickBank brand. This is a problem that affects you as much as ClickBank since you lose revenue from the buyer, affiliate commissions are returned, and the consumer ultimately opts-out of future purchases or subscriptions from you.

      We are actively evaluating the data we gathered during our test to see what iterative changes should be made to the format and content of the header, though we will not serve it through an iframe. As we make modifications to our approach, we will keep you updated.

      Thank you again for the feedback. Our desire is to adapt our solutions and offering to best accommodate the needs of affiliates, vendors and consumers. We value our partnership with you and look forward to the next phase of our growth together.

      Thank You,
      ClickBank
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10296931].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author jasondinner
        Originally Posted by ClickBank View Post

        Unlike some of the theories we have seen regarding this change being about brand awareness, the reality is that we are targeting one very real, growing and specific risk area where consumers are confused by the ClickBank name on their credit card statements.

        To that end, we have been reading and discussing your suggestions such as:

        1. One approach might be to use a sandwich page between the sales page and the ClickBank order page
        2. Change the soft descriptor to be more clear about the product association from the purchase
        3. Put ClickBank on the Buy Now buttons or right below it.

        We are always interested in hearing from and working with our clients to grow business together.

        Thanks,
        The ClickBank Team
        Not sure if it's physically possible yet or at all, but why not make the credit card statement descriptor be dynamic where it has Clickbank:[Shortened Product Name]

        As far as the 3 suggestions above you are contemplating, the only way #1 would work is just having a white page that has text that says something like "You are being transferred to Clickbank's Secure Payment Processing Page To Place Your Order, If It Does Not Redirect In 3 Seconds, Click Here"

        Although I wouldn't do it at all. Your order page has your branding all over it.
        Signature

        "Human thoughts have the tendency to transform themselves into their physical equivalent." Earl Nightingale

        Super Affiliates Hang Out Here

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10296998].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Pnigro
        Originally Posted by ClickBank View Post

        Unlike some of the theories we have seen regarding this change being about brand awareness, the reality is that we are targeting one very real, growing and specific risk area where consumers are confused by the ClickBank name on their credit card statements.
        If that is really the case, then like we have said, there are much better ways to do that than including a big Clickbank header on every sales page.

        I am really surprised that this was the best solution you came up with.

        My customers are from Latin America and they are very reluctant to buy stuff online.

        One of my products in Spanish deals with Temporomandibular Joint Disorders.

        Would it make any sense to have a big CLICKBANK header on top of my website?

        The name Clickbank itself implies some sort of bank or money related product. And on top of that it's an English name, which clashes completely with a Spanish sales page.

        And that is just a couple of reasons why it's a bad idea. I already gave a big list on the previous page.

        Originally Posted by ClickBank View Post

        To that end, we have been reading and discussing your suggestions such as:

        1. One approach might be to use a sandwich page between the sales page and the ClickBank order page
        2. Change the soft descriptor to be more clear about the product association from the purchase
        3. Put ClickBank on the Buy Now buttons or right below it.
        Thank you, we are very glad that you're listening.

        More suggestions:

        4) Be more strict with Thank You pages, forcing vendors to tell customers in big and bold letters that their card statements are going to show Clickbank.

        5) Include the Clickbank header on Thank You pages.

        6) Roll out whatever change you plan only on those vendors with high chargeback rates, instead of every product on Clickbank.

        8) Require ebook covers to include the phrase "Sold by Clickbank".

        9) Require ebooks to have "Sold by Clickbank" on the footer of every page.

        10) For non-ebook products, find ways to include the phrase "Sold by Clickbank" on their product content.

        11) Seriously consider the impact of such changes on foreign products.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10297013].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author SunilTanna
          Originally Posted by Pnigro View Post

          8) Require ebook covers to include the phrase "Sold by Clickbank".

          9) Require ebooks to have "Sold by Clickbank" on the footer of every page.

          10) For non-ebook products, find ways to include the phrase "Sold by Clickbank" on their product content.
          I said I would pack up - I really will now

          8, 9, 10 are terrible, since it requires a different version of the product just for ClickBank if you are selling elsewhere, and every single existing product would have to be redesigned - in cases of software, re-certified and re-signed - plus vendors would have to maintain 2 versions (which programmers hate) if they are selling on ClickBank and say offline as well. It would also means an ebook cover might not match the physical book. Plus it would also make hard for vendors to migrate existing products into ClickBank.

          But the rest of your suggestions are reasonable.
          Signature
          ClickBank Vendor?
          - Protect Your Thank You Pages & Downloads
          - Give Your Affiliates Multiple Landing Pages (Video Demo)
          - Killer Graphics for Your Site
          SPECIAL WSO PRICES FOR WARRIORS + GET THE "CLICKBANK DISCOUNT" TOO!
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10297028].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Pnigro
            Originally Posted by SunilTanna View Post

            I said I would pack up - I really will now

            8, 9, 10 are terrible, since it requires a different version of the product just for ClickBank if you are selling elsewhere, and every single existing product would have to be redesigned - in cases of software, re-certified and re-signed - plus vendors would have to maintain 2 versions (which programmers hate) if they are selling on ClickBank and say offline as well. It would also means an ebook cover might not match the physical book. Plus it would also make hard for vendors to migrate existing products into ClickBank.

            But the rest of your suggestions are reasonable.
            Yeah you're probably right.
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10297035].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author TweetPilot
          My main concern is that Clickbank even thought up this ridiculous idea!

          So you've got a problem with customers seeing Clickbank on their credit card statements and someone at Clickbank thinks: "Hmm, I know what'll fix that, an incredibly obtrusive banner with the Clickbank logo and a link to some unknown marketplace with completely irrelevant products"

          That's completely missing the point so there's two explanations here:
          a) You're lying and it was about brand awareness
          b) You're clueless

          All this 'experiment' has lead to is me (and other vendors) looking at the alternatives such as FastSpring and realising that there are far superior options out there, charging lower fees that won't come up with these ridiculous ideas.
          Signature
          TweetPilot - Our New App Making it Easy to Gain Followers on Twitter... Coming Soon!
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10297034].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author emilsb
        Originally Posted by ClickBank View Post

        11. This has something to do with the new CEO
        12. This has something to do with the new COO formerly employed by Visa
        Really?

        Oh, I fully understand now...

        What is the purpose of new management? To carefully follow the old plan, do the same thing as their predecessors did, and never come with any new "game-changing" ideas.

        MM-hmm. Yeh right.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10297108].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author kindsvater
        Originally Posted by ClickBank View Post

        In all of our communications, we have been clear that there is a movement of fraud online that is creating risk for your business and our business. The impacts of this will affect the entire performance marketing space, not just ClickBank. We have been working closely with the payments industry and our clients to find workable solutions to these issues.

        Unlike some of the theories we have seen regarding this change being about brand awareness, the reality is that we are targeting one very real, growing and specific risk area where consumers are confused by the ClickBank name on their credit card statements.
        Customer confusion is not a fraud issue.

        CB needs to get its story straight because nothing in this misadventure addresses fraud. I'm not even sure it addresses consumer confusion except to create even more by having a banner for site A on a product creator's site B.

        Remember in the podcast when the CB executive said this scheme was to address an expected increase in online credit card fraud because new chipped cards would make it harder for fraudulent in person purchases?

        Remember that?

        The banner thingy addresses that issue how?

        So forget the fraud. This isn't about fraud. It's now about consumers deciding to do chargebacks and risking their cards because they don't recognize the Clickbank name on a charge and can't remember what it was for.

        I'm sorry, but if I see an Amazon charge or PayPal charge I may not remember what I bought, but I don't run to my bank claiming fraud.

        Is CB banning these idiots? (Assuming this really is such a problem)

        I don't see this is a pre-purchase issue but rather a during purchase and post-purchase problem - wholly within ClickBank's control - to make sure buyers understand what name will be listed as the seller and to remember that name.

        That's ClickBank's problem in not properly educating buyers. Leave the vendors and affiliates alone.

        Send a follow-up email confirming the purchase.

        Do like Warrior Payments does and after a few days send an email requesting a product review.

        Send a letter thanking the buyer for the purchase and recommending other products or referrals. Or send an email if this issue isn't significant enough to justify a stamp.

        Reading between the lines, assuming this folly is actually being caused by Visa then give vendors a 'ClickBank quality assurance logo' to put on sales pages (not a top banner) and perhaps give prospective buyers the ability to click on it to verify the seller, and then on the CB order page refer to the same logo and have more trust information with the CB name, then do more post-purchase education about CB.

        Feel free to hire me and a few others on this thread, and knock-off the BS which is costing the company sellers, affiliates and reputation.

        .
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10297168].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Pnigro
          Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

          Remember in the podcast when the CB executive said this scheme was to address an expected increase in online credit card fraud because new chipped cards would make it harder for fraudulent in person purchases?

          Remember that?

          The banner thingy addresses that issue how?
          It doesn't.

          The banner makes absolutely no difference on credit card fraud.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10297184].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author alodie
          Originally Posted by kindsvater View Post

          Customer confusion is not a fraud issue.

          CB needs to get its story straight because nothing in this misadventure addresses fraud. I'm not even sure it addresses consumer confusion except to create even more by having a banner for site A on a product creator's site B.

          Remember in the podcast when the CB executive said this scheme was to address an expected increase in online credit card fraud because new chipped cards would make it harder for fraudulent in person purchases?

          Remember that?

          The banner thingy addresses that issue how?

          So forget the fraud. This isn't about fraud. It's now about consumers deciding to do chargebacks and risking their cards because they don't recognize the Clickbank name on a charge and can't remember what it was for.

          I'm sorry, but if I see an Amazon charge or PayPal charge I may not remember what I bought, but I don't run to my bank claiming fraud.

          Is CB banning these idiots? (Assuming this really is such a problem)

          I don't see this is a pre-purchase issue but rather a during purchase and post-purchase problem - wholly within ClickBank's control - to make sure buyers understand what name will be listed as the seller and to remember that name.

          That's ClickBank's problem in not properly educating buyers. Leave the vendors and affiliates alone.

          Send a follow-up email confirming the purchase.

          Do like Warrior Payments does and after a few days send an email requesting a product review.

          Send a letter thanking the buyer for the purchase and recommending other products or referrals. Or send an email if this issue isn't significant enough to justify a stamp.

          Reading between the lines, assuming this folly is actually being caused by Visa then give vendors a 'ClickBank quality assurance logo' to put on sales pages (not a top banner) and perhaps give prospective buyers the ability to click on it to verify the seller, and then on the CB order page refer to the same logo and have more trust information with the CB name, then do more post-purchase education about CB.

          Feel free to hire me and a few others on this thread, and knock-off the BS which is costing the company sellers, affiliates and reputation.

          .

          Hi Kindsvater,

          "
          Feel free to hire me and a few others on this thread, and knock-off the
          BS which is costing the company sellers, affiliates and reputation." ...

          ...And I couldn't help but to smile at the fervor with which you seem to
          present your points/arguments on this critical Clickbank issue.

          But you have made some very solid points in this post. Made me think.

          Thanks a million.

          Cheers,

          Alodieanne
          .
          Signature
          "Providing personal and business transformational information: Working hard to always give the kind of value that will produce the best results for my customers. Because, the success of my business will depend on my customers' satisfaction."


          Alodieanne
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10382290].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author stackman
        Originally Posted by ClickBank View Post

        Hi All,

        In all of our communications, we have been clear that there is a movement of fraud online that is creating risk for your business and our business. The impacts of this will affect the entire performance marketing space, not just ClickBank. We have been working closely with the payments industry and our clients to find workable solutions to these issues.

        Unlike some of the theories we have seen regarding this change being about brand awareness, the reality is that we are targeting one very real, growing and specific risk area where consumers are confused by the ClickBank name on their credit card statements.ClickBank
        You could have fooled me that this was your intention, especially since you stated otherwise in your email to me. So which is it? Branding or fraud protection? This whole response is a load of BS.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10297254].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author agmccall
        Originally Posted by ClickBank View Post

        In all of our communications, we have been clear that there is a movement of fraud online that is creating risk for your business and our business. The impacts of this will affect the entire performance marketing space, not just ClickBank. We have been working closely with the payments industry and our clients to find workable solutions to these issues.
        Can somebody, anybody, please tell me how this header, with all it's links and leaks, would combat fraud.

        al
        Signature

        It is true that money can not buy happiness, But it is more comfortable to cry in a Mercedes than on a bicycle

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10298429].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author SunilTanna
    The ClickBank brand must be part of the funnel and at the top of any screen with a ClickBank payment link, to reduce the volume of consumers who report their charges as fraudulent due to the lack of awareness of the ClickBank brand. This is a problem that affects you as much as ClickBank since you lose revenue from the buyer, affiliate commissions are returned, and the consumer ultimately opts-out of future purchases or subscriptions from you.
    I don't know how often people charge-back because they don't recognize ClickBank on their billing statement, but I'm struggling to believe it's that much because nowaday's many people statements are full of generic things like "PayPal", - plus many vendors rarely get charge-backs (I don't remember the last charge-back I had).


    But if ClickBank are genuinely concerned that people might charge-back because they do NOT expect ClickBank to appear on their credit card statement, there is a really easy solution which does not require changing the entire sales funnel..

    1. Put in prominent text (not some tiny grey footer) on the clickbank's payment form the following text: "This purchase will appear on your credit card statement as being from ClickBank"

    2. Put the same text on the post-payment page

    3. Put the same text within the email receipt that they send to customers

    4. Ask/Require vendors to put the same text on their thank you pages


    This will have virtually no effect on conversion or SEO, doesn't break existing websites, doesn't cause technical problems, doesn't destroy vendors brand/identity. And I doubt anybody would have real objection to suchchanges.

    There's also one more thing they could potentially do. A few years ago, I asked at a meeting with ClickBank why they don't put the product name (which ClickBank knows) on the customer's billing statement. e.g. so instead of "ClickBank.com" appearing on the statement it would say "ClickBank - Weight Loss eBook" or "ClickBank - Internet Marketing Course by ...." or whatever. I was told this was possible, but would cost them some extra money. Maybe they should look into this again. I did notice without something else I purchased recently through another online retail system, that they didn exactly that.
    Signature
    ClickBank Vendor?
    - Protect Your Thank You Pages & Downloads
    - Give Your Affiliates Multiple Landing Pages (Video Demo)
    - Killer Graphics for Your Site
    SPECIAL WSO PRICES FOR WARRIORS + GET THE "CLICKBANK DISCOUNT" TOO!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10296874].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Lucian Lada
    I rarely, if ever, fall for the conspiracy theory, but this time I'm inclined to believe that they weren't aiming for what they said.

    Just look at how many much better alternatives to that stupid header were offered in this thread and we're just a handful of people. Imagine if they really wanted to look after the client, how many possible ways their teams would have come up with.

    Anyway, just to show you how much Clickbank cares about its affiliates (and vendors), I emailed them, asking if I'll be credited with a sale if I send someone to a sales page, but leaves to the Marketplace via the header and buys some other stuff. They said no.

    In other words, even if they would want, in the future, to offer marketplace-wide cookies to affiliates, right now they said something to the effect of, "F*ck them - let's screw with their earnings for a day and see how it goes."

    But here's the reply I got from them:

    Hello,

    Thank you for your inquiry! You will only be credited if the customer buys the product you referred them to. This is a widespread concern for affiliates and at this time we have disabled the header to better address issues similar to this. Please stay tuned! We will continue to communicate with clients through email about this new change.

    Please let me know if I can be of further assistance!
    "This is a widespread concern for affiliates and at this time we have disabled the header to better address issues similar to this"? Gee, I bet they didn't see this one coming. It would have taken an Einstein to foresee it.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10296892].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author SunilTanna
      Last comment before I finish for the day:

      It feels like some marketing consultant has said to CB.

      1. "You're a retailer"

      2. Text books about retailers usually say branding is important, the more the better.

      3. There you should put your brand everywhere in the marketing funnel.

      If there is such a guy - he t hasn't understood what actually drives ClickBank sales - which is actually vendors & affiliates.

      The better CB supports and enables vendors & affiliates, the more of them they will recruit, and the more the existing ones will sell.

      This is what CB ought to be focusing on.

      Customers are not interested in CB's brand. They don't wake up one morning thinking..."I'll buy a digital product, where should I shop for it, and which one should I choose? Oh, I know I'll go to a digital marketplace and do some shopping.".

      Instead customers have a problem, whether it's losing weight, or building a shed, or keeping their kids busy with paper crafts on a rainy afternoon - and they look for a vendor who supplies a solution to their current need.

      CB's brand is pretty much irrelevant to the way customers actually shop.

      CB shouldn't be ashamed of that. If they can make a lot of money by being a brand that vendors use, but customers just consider part of the background plumbing - that's better than making far less money, but being slightly more famous.
      Signature
      ClickBank Vendor?
      - Protect Your Thank You Pages & Downloads
      - Give Your Affiliates Multiple Landing Pages (Video Demo)
      - Killer Graphics for Your Site
      SPECIAL WSO PRICES FOR WARRIORS + GET THE "CLICKBANK DISCOUNT" TOO!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10296922].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author SunilTanna
        Amazon burned thru billions and billions of investor dollars building an all singing and dancing website, in multiple countriee and languages, creating their own products like kindle, prime, and amazon tv, distribution, building warehouses and shipping, on advertising and so on.

        I dont see cb doing any of those things - their business is built on vendors and affiliates creating the products, vendors and affils doing the marketing, vendors and affils driving traffic, and vendors delivering the product (yes i know cb sends an email but the vendor hosts the files, membersite, etc).

        So while amazon and cb are both retailers, and both have websites that is about as far as the similarities go, the underlying business is completely different.

        If cb want to try to start a digital amazon, i suggest that create a 2nd entirely separate website & brand for that, and invite vendors to join. Rather than destroying their existing successful model. If cb's digital amazon. Is really better, then vendors will want to join without being compelled.

        It should have been a huge clue to cb that the digital shopping portal was bad, by the simple fact that the only way to make vendors participate was to force them. What's done is done, and at least cb listened, but going forward cb should realise that most vendors do actually know something about their business - that vendors can recognize negative change - and that vendors and affiliates can switch to other platforms relatively easily.


        Changing topic slightly: i just want to add

        1. Most cb vendors are involved in direct response marketing

        2. Putting "clickbank" at the very top of the 1st page that a new visitor sees will always be the kiss of death to thus type of marketing.

        3. The reason is that the visitor reached the page by clicking on a link (email, ad, or seo) which offered a solution to a problem, whether its weight loss, learning photoshop, or whatever.

        4. When a visitor arrives on a page which says clickbank at the very top, they will think they clicked the wrong link, or the site is no longer offering what it originally offered, or its a parked page, or its a phishing attempt (the word "bank" in cb probably adds to this too), etc. The bounce rate is bound to be enormous. High bounce rate means it is no longer profitable for vendors or affiliates to advertise.
        Signature
        ClickBank Vendor?
        - Protect Your Thank You Pages & Downloads
        - Give Your Affiliates Multiple Landing Pages (Video Demo)
        - Killer Graphics for Your Site
        SPECIAL WSO PRICES FOR WARRIORS + GET THE "CLICKBANK DISCOUNT" TOO!
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10298704].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Pnigro
      Originally Posted by Lucian Lada View Post

      Anyway, just to show you how much Clickbank cares about its affiliates (and vendors), I emailed them, asking if I'll be credited with a sale if I send someone to a sales page, but leaves to the Marketplace via the header and buys some other stuff. They said no.

      In other words, even if they would want, in the future, to offer marketplace-wide cookies to affiliates, right now they said something to the effect of, "F*ck them - let's screw with their earnings for a day and see how it goes."
      It doesn't matter, no customer is going to click on the header and then buy from the marketplace, especially if they're shown "featured products" that have NOTHING TO DO with what they're looking for.

      It's such a stupid idea!

      Clickbank is not Amazon.

      The visitors are going to get confused and distracted. If anything it's going to hurt sales by sending people away from the sales page.

      There are so many things wrong with this whole thing.

      If they want people to buy from the marketplace they can always send customers there after they buy or through follow up emails.

      That would also take care of the brand awareness thing.

      Jesus Christ.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10296945].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Lucian Lada
    Why I don't really get, if they only wanted to brand themselves, is why on earth did they also put a link to the marketplace?

    Why on earth would you include such a big, fat leak in a BIG, FLOATING HEADER? The only way to make this leak even bigger would have been to put a picture of Ronald McDonald, aiming at the "Marketplace" button and saying "Click here, and you'll get a free hamburger from us."
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10296939].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author joaquin112
    It's outrageous how dumb the header idea was. It really makes me question the intelligence of whoever runs ClickBank and makes me want to run as far away from the company as possible.
    Signature

    Let me get leads for your business for you. Click here to learn more.. I build huge e-mail lists at an affordable price.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10296960].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author nolan59
      Clickbank - this was no test, your email said : "ClickBank product vendors are now required to include a small JavaScript code on all pages within their marketing funnel. This code simply returns a piece of HTML content that injects a thin ClickBank-branded header on top of the page.". If it was a test you would have worked closely with a few vendors to test the system before rolling it out.

      Your email also said "Recently, we sent you an email detailing a very important update to the ClickBank platform about the Always On Shopping Portal." - no such email was ever received to any of my clickbank accounts (I have 3). I have also not received the "retraction" email you refer to, to any of my Clickbank accounts. In other words the only communication I ever received in this regards was your email forcing me to implement your idea.

      We are listening and we hear you. We are paying attention to what is being said in tickets that our support team receives. We are observing the various forums and groups where people are responding to these changes. We are listening as we talk to you directly. You may have received or seen an email (pasted below this post) that we sent out regarding the cessation of our iframe test.
      You were not listening at all. You are only listening now because we are all furious at the impractical idea you forced on us. Just the fact that we are talking on Warrior Forum should be enough indication to you that you are totally out of touch with your vendors and have no clue what we need or are thinking.

      To listen means you are in a continual dialog with us (the product creators). I suggest you start a forum of your own on the Clickbank website for you to chat with us (the product creators) so that in future we have a voice before implementing crazy ideas like this.

      I don't think you realise how much this badly thought through and forced change has damaged your reputation with your vendors. It is certainly going to take me a while to regain my confidence in Clickbank and the verdict is still out on whether to move to a different supplier - will depend on whether the final decision / implementation of this "Always On" system will be acceptable or not.

      From a very disappointed vendor
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10297022].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Pnigro
        @nolan59, at least they realized they made a mistake and cancelled the whole thing.

        Judging by the "it can be hard to embrace some of these changes" comment from their blog post, I was scared they were going to stubbornly stick with it.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10297033].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author trevord92
    Am I the only one who missed the wording that this was a "test" in the email that Clickbank sent out?

    The email said Clickbank "are actively testing several variations of the Always On Shopping Portal to remove impact on conversions."

    It also said "vendors are now required to include a small JavaScript code on all pages within their marketing funnel."

    To my mind that isn't the same as "we're testing and may backtrack on this idea completely".
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10296975].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Sid Hale
      I noticed the wording in the original email, but...

      that wording implies that variations are being tested. To me, that implies split testing of sorts, and does not imply that NO HEADER is one of the tested options.


      Originally Posted by trevord92 View Post

      Am I the only one who missed the wording that this was a "test" in the email that Clickbank sent out?

      The email said Clickbank "are actively testing several variations of the Always On Shopping Portal to remove impact on conversions."

      It also said "vendors are now required to include a small JavaScript code on all pages within their marketing funnel."

      To my mind that isn't the same as "we're testing and may backtrack on this idea completely".
      I think ClickBank was well aware of both vendor and affiliate reactions before actually beginning their "tests". If not, they should have been, as they have a representative here on the WF, and we have been pretty vocal since first finding out about it.

      Their first mistake was in committing to make such a sweeping change without first gauging the reaction of vendors and affiliates. In a lot of ways, the email was already too late. They had plenty of opportunity to ask for feedback long before their announcement.

      While they are a retailer, unlike Amazon or Walmart... they do NOT have buyer traffic to their marketplace!!! They have a very definite dependence on the traffic delivered by affiliates and apparently have NO idea what a leaky sales page means to their affiliate marketers.

      They had to run internal tests of this just to make sure the code would work, but they lied to themselves when trying to rationalize the impact on their suppliers and affiliates. They had an "agenda", and determined the viability of their plan based on whether or not it served just that narrow purpose.
      Signature

      Sid Hale
      Coming Soon... Rapid Action Profits (Pro)

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10297037].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Sid Hale
        I call BS on this...

        Originally Posted by ClickBank

        The ClickBank brand must be part of the funnel and at the top of any screen with a ClickBank payment link, to reduce the volume of consumers who report their charges as fraudulent due to the lack of awareness of the ClickBank brand. This is a problem that affects you as much as ClickBank since you lose revenue from the buyer, affiliate commissions are returned, and the consumer ultimately opts-out of future purchases or subscriptions from you.
        Given her experience at Visa (assuming that report was correct), your new COO may be qualified with regard to credit card processing - but if she was instrumental in this decision (implied because of her background), I would remind you that those credentials don't necessarily have squat to do with selling products online.

        As has been pointed out in this thread, many affiliates and vendors are experiencing very acceptable refund rates, indicating that ClickBank branding is simply NOT an issue with regard to refunds.

        Well... maybe I'll backpedal a little on that last statement, because:

        It has also been widely reported (in other threads on this forum) that Clickbank ALWAYS succumbs to any/all refund requests and have become known as a haven for serial refunders. If ClickBank is so concerned about the shift of credit card fraud to the online markets, perhaps they (and the CC companies as well, for that matter) should proactively address that problem rather than supposedly trying to "pre-empt" a problem that may/may not yet exist.

        ClickBank's habit of simply rolling over to any refund request may be just one more good reason NOT to encumber a vendor's sales page with ClickBank branding. Nothing like advertising to everyone "Buy from me, cause then you can ask for an immediate refund".
        Signature

        Sid Hale
        Coming Soon... Rapid Action Profits (Pro)

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10297058].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author joaquin112
    Better solution is to have the credit card statement descriptor be chosen by the vendor for each individual product (and possibly approved by Clickbank). Having a descriptor for the whole account might not be the best approach since many vendors have widely different products.
    Signature

    Let me get leads for your business for you. Click here to learn more.. I build huge e-mail lists at an affordable price.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10297007].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author jasondinner
      Originally Posted by joaquin112 View Post

      Better solution is to have the credit card statement descriptor be chosen by the vendor for each individual product (and possibly approved by Clickbank). Having a descriptor for the whole account might not be the best approach since many vendors have widely different products.
      Thats not as easy as it sounds.

      From my past experience with merchant accounts, you usually are only provided 1 per account.

      I could be wrong, or it could have changed, or its different for clickbank bc they are a monster company, but it may not be as easy as giving every vendor their own descriptor - unless they get their own merchant account.
      Signature

      "Human thoughts have the tendency to transform themselves into their physical equivalent." Earl Nightingale

      Super Affiliates Hang Out Here

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10297040].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author emilsb
        Clickbank: So, you're listening - then listen this feedback, loud and clear:

        HELL NO!

        You are now driving away sellers at the speed of light. Not only the existing ones, but new ones too. The only way to prevent this is to forget about this ridiculous idea.

        You're not going to have the chance of putting any kind of IFRAME on my own sites, to mess with all the difficult work I've done so far. Years of SEO can be damaged through your iframe. Navigation is wrecked.

        How about site appearance? And branding? Your banner and brand has nothing to do with sellers websites. You are a service provider, you are not the seller's brand. Keep your brand ON your site. That's where it belongs.

        I disagree with the belief that this doesn't affect affiliates.

        IF IT AFFECTS SELLERS, THEN IT AFFECTS AFFILIATES TOO.

        Fewer sellers will be available. Power sellers will walk away. Conversion rates will be (are) going down. Site functionality will be affected by the IFRAME interacting with the other content. And so on.

        Personal note: I'm about to release several products on different niches. I know from the beta testing that they might be tremendously successful. Not the usual BS, but products based on years of experience and designed with the main purpose of conveying value. Guess what - they'll be nowhere near CB. There are so many other options, including JVZoo. Meet me there.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10297072].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author nolan59
        Tweet I fully agree on the lying statement.

        I also listened to the podcast the CB Vice president did about this change and the whole reason for this Always On bar was combating fraud as well as charge backs because the customer doesn't recognise the listing on their bank statement.

        Adding a clickbank logo to the top of a website is NOT going to scare off a fraudster. Neither will a link to the CB marketplace, etc. Security precautions implemented when the card is processed will combat fraudulent transactions.

        I personally do not believe that fraud is now suddenly on the rise any more than it has before. In all the years I have been doing business online (through CB and other payment systems), I have not experienced that at all.

        To combat refunds and chargebacks you need customer awareness on the bank statement, not at the point of sale. If the customer has forgotten or does not recognise the transaction on their statement by the time they get the statement, then no amount of branding at the POS is going to make any difference because they have forgotten.

        In all my years selling online I can count on less than one hand how many chargebacks I have received due to a customer not knowing who the charge on their credit card statement was from.

        Vendors know what their refund and chargeback rates are so it is impossible to tell them otherwise and expect them to believe it.

        Even the support drop down would have made no difference to fraud / refund rates, etc. It would be used for pre-sales questions like "If I buy the upgrade, will I also get XYZ"...

        Nothing about this Always On bar was for the reasons provided imo and that is what has dented my confidence in CB.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10297078].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author emilsb
    One of the ways to make loads of cash is data. For many top internet companies, selling data is one of the ways they make money, if not the biggest one. They all do it.

    I strongly suspect that this is one of those cases.

    The amount of data collected in this way will now increase XX-fold through this header. I bet they carry less about sellers fleeing away, than getting that valuable data.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10297086].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author TweetPilot
      Originally Posted by emilsb View Post

      One of the ways to make loads of cash is data. For many top internet companies, selling data is one of the ways they make money, if not the biggest one. They all do it.

      I strongly suspect that this is one of those cases.

      The amount of data collected in this way will now increase XX-fold through this header. I bet they carry less about sellers fleeing away, than getting that valuable data.
      That's one hell of a conspiracy... But it is the internet and anything is believable especially after Clickbank have proven their stupidity with this bar.
      Signature
      TweetPilot - Our New App Making it Easy to Gain Followers on Twitter... Coming Soon!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10297100].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author supereek
    can't even add a new product now without that stupid header.
    i just tried to add the header to one of my wordpress based sales sites.. added their code to the header.php within the head tags.. and it doesn't load. wtf am i supposed to do :/
    followed their whole guide..
    Signature

    Get my fiverr abritage tutorial for free HERE.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10297130].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author milaca
    Thats total BS from clickbank and will kill conversion rates dramatically...!!!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10297173].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author YuanHao
    Are they deaf, stupid, or think we are really that stupid?

    I will write this again, they should let us know what is an acceptable refund or chargeback rate. Maybe they want a lower than 1% chargeback rate -- in such case, affiliates, vendors, and Clickbank all need to work together and:

    1) Create a better product and less hype on the sales page
    2) Give better customer support
    3) Allow slightly more Clickbank branding

    All of these sound promising.... Until you go to Clickbank's dashboard and see these kinds of ads (literally copied):

    Good God! Affiliate Just Made $17,000

    LIVE CASE STUDY: How A Simple BUsiness In a Weird Niche Market Generates Us Over 6-Figures Per Year!
    What the hell? Why are you using shady, scammy marketing strategies from 10 years ago IN YOUR OWN DASHBOARD?

    This is ridiculous.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10297377].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author jvaldes
      I've been looking into this ever since I got the email from ClickBank out of the blue the other day about this crazy header. The more I've looked into it, the more none of this adds up.

      1. They aren't telling us the truth.

      They're saying this is to stop fraud, when nothing about an IFRAME header is going to stop someone from using a stolen credit card online. How dumb do they think we are?

      They say they're rolling this out and then they tell us it was just a test? They can't even be honest there.

      2. ClickBank is going through lots of internal turmoil.

      They just hired someone new from Visa. Right after that, their CEO left--fired or quit...who knows? Then they promote their CTO to be the CEO. And this was just a few weeks ago.

      What CEO would ever want this IFRAME rollout to be the first big initiative under his leadership? They had to know this was going to upset all of us. I can't imagine any CEO rolling something like this out unless he was incredibly stupid or absolutely had no choice.

      3. ClickBank is facing some sort of risk.

      "The ClickBank brand must be part of the funnel and at the top of any screen with a ClickBank payment link."

      This is ultimately what they seem to be pushing for--shoving ClickBank's name and logo everywhere. Their new website pushes them as an "Global Internet Retailer". They put this consumer-facing marketplace on their homepage. They roll out this stupid header.

      My theory is that this has nothing to do with fraud...and everything to do with a risk to how their own business is structured. ClickBank has always had a weird structure. They're the retailer, even though we're the vendor of the products. Technically they're buying the products from us and then reselling them to the consumer. That's why they have to approve our products and even have the right to change prices.

      Maybe that weird structure has caught up with them. They're supposed to be a retailer, but they don't look like a retailer. They're not a credit card processor themselves, so they have to be using some third-party to do that for them. Maybe whoever is processing their credit cards did an audit or something and doesn't like what they see. ClickBank is supposed to be a retailer, but they look an awful lot like a credit card processor. Maybe their own credit card processor doesn't like that?
      • That might explain why they went and hired someone from Visa to try to calm the waters.
      • That might explain why they seem desperate to change their own website to make themselves look like a retailer.
      • That might explain why they quietly and extremely quickly tried to force all of their vendors and affiliates to look like ClickBank.
      If that's the case, maybe they can start telling us all the truth.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10297491].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author stackman
    Clickbank apparently has some delusions of being the Amazon of digital products -- that customers will view them as a marketplace and keep returning for products such as "Make A Million Dollars in a Week", "How to Train your Dog to Stop Farting", and "Improve Your Love Life with WD-40" --- a marketplace for idiots.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10298422].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author professorrosado
      The underscore is the fact that the credit card companies are insisting that the "merchant" of record be held accountable. That's the bottom line!

      So, if you can handle your own transactions in compliance with the credit card companies, then do so. If you can't, then let the processors that have to accommodate their business model to fit the changing and more restrictive credit card industry regulations.

      The fact that there is a "VISA" proficient executive leading CB now and that this effort was their first attempt at alignment is telling.

      CB needs to change. The IM environment is changing too. So it may be time for the "old" ways to give in to the new ones. And with them, the "old" offers that CB would do well in shaking off their shag.

      CB should never have been the whole of your business as some are crying here. Move on! Expand. Prosper in the open sea! The incubation period is over and you need to leave the nest. But I never burn my bridges behind me. I can call my birth home, home still. I just can't be like I was before.

      I lean toward CB's prerogative to transform themselves into a viable model for years to come. The fact that they did not have a decent public marketplace doesn't preclude them of ever developing one!

      I know that if I were the head of CB, I would go after the Amazon model but within the particular digital genre they presently excel in. I do not see any good business reason for any present vendor not to "adapt" to that eventuality.

      Any smart business leader should have been contemplating and preparing their business for these changes in the market. So now you know and it behooves tomorrow's leaders to make the necessary preparations and moves in order to position themselves profitably in the emerging evolution of your market.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10298441].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Pnigro
        Originally Posted by professorrosado View Post

        I know that if I were the head of CB, I would go after the Amazon model but within the particular digital genre they presently excel in.
        And how exactly would you do that?

        The vendors are the ones who host their products and sales pages. This is what made Clickbank successful in the first place. We as vendors have full control over what we show to our clients.

        We can make split tests. If a particular website design is not working well, we change it. We test different headlines, colors, buttons. We drive traffic to our website. We build our subscribers list. We control and decide the methods of selling. It's classic direct response marketing.

        Amazon is a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT business model. They are the ones hosting the products. There are no sales pages. People browse different products in order to decide which to buy. Etc etc.

        Clickbank going the Amazon route is the equivalent of Subway going the Johnny Rockets route.

        Completely different animals.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10298526].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author SunilTanna
      Originally Posted by stackman View Post

      Clickbank apparently has some delusions of being the Amazon of digital products -- that customers will view them as a marketplace and keep returning for products such as "Make A Million Dollars in a Week", "How to Train your Dog to Stop Farting", and "Improve Your Love Life with WD-40" --- a marketplace for idiots.
      Even if all the products were excellent, nobody is going to browse and buy CB's digital products that way. Customers search (using google) for solutions to problems and then find a solution, which happens to be a digital product sold via clickbank. Or they are told about things (via email and FB ads) that might solve a problem the advertiser suspects they have, then the buy a solution which happens to be a digital product sold via clickbank.

      Nobody wakes up in the morning thinking, "I feel like buying a digital product, but don't know whether to buy a photoshop tutorial, or a dog training course, or a shed-design manual, or maybe some software for creating fonts, or mp3 audio files that I use as sountrack if I decide to program a game, or PHP script files for drawing animated cats. Who knows!. If only there was a digital market place that listed as an assortment of vendors."
      Signature
      ClickBank Vendor?
      - Protect Your Thank You Pages & Downloads
      - Give Your Affiliates Multiple Landing Pages (Video Demo)
      - Killer Graphics for Your Site
      SPECIAL WSO PRICES FOR WARRIORS + GET THE "CLICKBANK DISCOUNT" TOO!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10298770].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Pnigro
        My main product has a refund rate of 1.8% and a chargeback rate of 0.7%.

        Is that such a big problem for credit card companies?

        Why would that be an issue?

        I wonder what the overall Clickbank refund rate and chargeback rate is.

        In the end, aren't they all making millions and just giving the money back to customers who didn't find their purchase satisfying?

        Why is it that all of a sudden Clickbank is forced to change the model that has given them success for so many years?
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10298807].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author TweetPilot
    In Clickbank's defence (sort of) I think people are getting the wrong end of the fraud thing (I think).

    From what I understand, Clickbank's problem is that customers are seeing CLICKBANK on their statements and are thinking, what the hell is that and are then reporting it as fraud to their bank/paypal or whatever.

    Clickbank want to push their brand a little more before customers buy so that when they then see the Clickbank name on their statement they don't think it's a fraudulent transaction.

    That's what I understand the excuse is at least.

    Personally after doing plenty of sales through Clickbank, I've rarely found this to be an issue. If you offer a decent product without hiding the fact that the bank statement will show Clickbank then your refunds should be low as would your chargebacks.

    This is just Clickbank coming up with whatever BS excuse they can.
    Signature
    TweetPilot - Our New App Making it Easy to Gain Followers on Twitter... Coming Soon!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10298439].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author TweetPilot
    Sorry Professorrosado, but I couldn't disagree with you more!?

    I appreciate Clickbank is the 'vendor' legally, and that they therefore are responsible for the product that they are therefore selling to the customer but you really think that means they should go down the Amazon route?

    I don't think everyone on here is saying they use Clickbank and solely Clickbank. In fact, some of the arguments are the fact that they were being forced to use a Clickbank header on pages that didn't just accept Clickbank as a method of payment.

    Clickbank have screwed up big time. The only reason they're under pressure from the credit card companies is because SOME of the vendors sell utter rubbish which has pushed up refund and chargeback rates.

    It all comes back to the products that are being sold. If they were stricter then perhaps we'd be in a better position today.
    Signature
    TweetPilot - Our New App Making it Easy to Gain Followers on Twitter... Coming Soon!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10298556].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Sid Hale
      Couldn't agree more, Tweet...

      Originally Posted by TweetPilot View Post

      I appreciate Clickbank is the 'vendor' legally, and that they therefore are responsible for the product that they are therefore selling to the customer but you really think that means they should go down the Amazon route?
      I don't have a problem if they want to "go down the Amazon route", but to do that they first have to create a customer oriented Marketplace.

      While legally, the vendor's sales page is just an ad for "Clickbank's product", and all the affiliate links are CB links, and all the "buy" buttons lead to a CB order page... anyone at ClickBank who thought that vendors or affiliates were going to sit still for this attempt to simply absorb the vendor's sales page to simulate a real marketplace needs to be removed from any position of responsibility before they kill ClickBank's business.

      If you think about it... legally, the vendor's sales page really isn't much different than an affiliate's blog post.

      Sure there is a specific "buy" button, but that's just a call to action. No financial transaction is started until AFTER the visitor gets to the CB order page. ClickBank has every right to change that page as much as they like. If their customers aren't recognizing ClickBank as the seller when they receive the credit card statement, it's because ClickBank has done an insufficient job of making it clear right on that page!

      Next thing you know, they'll want to put a ClickBank header on your AdWords ads - roflmao

      Clickbank have screwed up big time. The only reason they're under pressure from the credit card companies is because SOME of the vendors sell utter rubbish which has pushed up refund and chargeback rates.

      It all comes back to the products that are being sold. If they were stricter then perhaps we'd be in a better position today.
      It may be too late, already.

      While they have abandoned their initial attempt to bring all of their product's sales pages under the ClickBank header, I think that whatever drove this decision in the first place is still an issue and they are simply trying to determine how they can modify the plan to be more acceptable.

      They seem to think that the problem was in the execution of that header (i.e. the size, the page leaks, the iframe) and appear to have the blinders on with regard to what may be causing their overall (higher than normal?) refund rate.

      I find myself dreading what their next move might be.

      If others feel the same way, they could already be experiencing a significant movement by the vendors to pull their products. They may be too late to stem the the tide.

      Not only was "Plan A" terrible... they obviously didn't have a "Plan B" ready.

      Are the vendors/affiliates who rely on ClickBank's services going to sit idly by... just waiting to see what comes next?
      Signature

      Sid Hale
      Coming Soon... Rapid Action Profits (Pro)

      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10298751].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author James Campbell
    Clickbank should make this clear so everyone gets the real story.

    Ask them/your rep at CB what the deal is going to be for Premium vendors vs new/regular vendors on CB?

    This change isn't disappearing, it is just beginning. Right now, all these posts from CB are just to save face in a public forum.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10298655].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author JFCanada
    I told ClickBank they should print the vendor's name on the credit card statements so the customer remembers what the purchase was for. Here is their reply:

    Hello, Thank you for your reply. PayPal is a Payment processor and ClickBank is an online retailer. You can deposit money, transfer funds and pay from your Paypal account like a financial institution. ClickBank is a an online store, like Amazon.
    Best Regards,
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10298670].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author trevord92
    This article explains quite a bit about chargebacks and how they affect credit card processing.

    It sounds as though a 1% chargeback rate is at the top end of the acceptable range.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10298851].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      Originally Posted by SunilTanna View Post

      Customers are not interested in CB's brand. They don't wake up one morning thinking..."I'll buy a digital product, where should I shop for it, and which one should I choose? Oh, I know I'll go to a digital marketplace and do some shopping.".
      Sure they do. Then they fire up a browser and type in A-m-a-z and click on the amazon.com dropdown, like they have many times before.

      Originally Posted by silvacourses View Post

      I am not "selling to ClickBank." I advertise and make the sale to the customer, and ClickBank receives a payment for the service they provide. The services they provide are processing the payment, and occasionally finding an affiliate to sell something for us. ClickBank doesn't do the selling, at least not on our site.
      Sorry, Silva, but you're wrong. It may look like that to you, your customers and your affiliates, but someone following the legal paper trail would see two transactions - you selling your product to Clickbank, and Clickbank selling it to the end user.

      They don't make the pitch, but it's their register that rings up the sale.

      Originally Posted by TweetPilot View Post

      In Clickbank's defence (sort of) I think people are getting the wrong end of the fraud thing (I think).

      From what I understand, Clickbank's problem is that customers are seeing CLICKBANK on their statements and are thinking, what the hell is that and are then reporting it as fraud to their bank/paypal or whatever.

      Clickbank want to push their brand a little more before customers buy so that when they then see the Clickbank name on their statement they don't think it's a fraudulent transaction.

      That's what I understand the excuse is at least.

      Personally after doing plenty of sales through Clickbank, I've rarely found this to be an issue. If you offer a decent product without hiding the fact that the bank statement will show Clickbank then your refunds should be low as would your chargebacks.

      This is just Clickbank coming up with whatever BS excuse they can.
      If this truly is the root problem, the solution is simple. And, as often happens, it comes from the adult industry.

      All they need to do is add a line to the checkout success page.

      "This transaction will appear on your statement as [whatever they need to use]."

      It's the digital equivalent to "your package will arrive in a discreet brown wrapper.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10298918].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author professorrosado
        Originally Posted by Pnigro View Post

        And how exactly would you do that?

        The vendors are the ones who host their products and sales pages. This is what made Clickbank successful in the first place. We as vendors have full control over what we show to our clients.

        We can make split tests. If a particular website design is not working well, we change it. We test different headlines, colors, buttons. We drive traffic to our website. We build our subscribers list. We control and decide the methods of selling. It's classic direct response marketing.

        Amazon is a COMPLETELY DIFFERENT business model. They are the ones hosting the products. There are no sales pages. People browse different products in order to decide which to buy. Etc etc.

        Clickbank going the Amazon route is the equivalent of Subway going the Johnny Rockets route.

        Completely different animals.
        And so you propose that a business should stay put while it goes extinct just to fit your rationalizations? Business must survive - it has to adapt to changing environmental factors which in this case has everything to do with legal issues which, save a few, no one has even attempted to consider.

        I run an offline brick and mortar business and I know what the CC industry is forcing upon merchants - especially those transacting remotely. It isn't as cut and dry as most of you are porting. The issue of fraud is more technical than most are thinking on this thread. The one holding the liability is CB and not you all with your fancy website and branding fetishes.

        Originally Posted by TweetPilot View Post

        Sorry Professorrosado, but I couldn't disagree with you more!?

        I appreciate Clickbank is the 'vendor' legally, and that they therefore are responsible for the product that they are therefore selling to the customer but you really think that means they should go down the Amazon route? ..............
        No, not because of their legal liability, but because it makes more sense to their long term business goals.

        Originally Posted by TweetPilot View Post

        Clickbank have screwed up big time. The only reason they're under pressure from the credit card companies is because SOME of the vendors sell utter rubbish which has pushed up refund and chargeback rates.
        This is by no means the only reason. As I said previously, the whole remote transaction segment is being hit hard with strict new rules concerning CC processing - period! The evolving CC industry is going to cause a lot more changes to the way business is transacted and it will affect everyone concerned. All I am saying is that IM need to get ready to make shifts in the way you are doing or going to do future business online. One morning you may wake up to a revolution that will cripple your business for some time.

        Originally Posted by Pnigro View Post

        My main product has a refund rate of 1.8% and a chargeback rate of 0.7%.

        Is that such a big problem for credit card companies?

        Why would that be an issue?

        I wonder what the overall Clickbank refund rate and chargeback rate is.

        In the end, aren't they all making millions and just giving the money back to customers who didn't find their purchase satisfying?

        Why is it that all of a sudden Clickbank is forced to change the model that has given them success for so many years?
        Because it isn't just about your chargeback rates - it is the general perception and fear revolving around the credit card fraud issue wholly. We're talking about stolen cards, now even numbers and personal data, identity fraud, etc. Who is responsible for these false claims in the end? Clickbank! Because they are the charger of the card on record - the credit card companies have no liability at all if you read their regulations carefully.

        Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

        .....Sorry, Silva, but you're wrong. It may look like that to you, your customers and your affiliates, but someone following the legal paper trail would see two transactions - you selling your product to Clickbank, and Clickbank selling it to the end user.

        They don't make the pitch, but it's their register that rings up the sale.....
        Absolutely true John, but I must add that the little blurb stating "who is the one charging the card / whose name will appear on the statement" is just one small part of the mounting regulatory pressures Clickbank and others will have to deal with sooner or later.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10299046].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Pnigro
          Originally Posted by professorrosado View Post

          And so you propose that a business should stay put while it goes extinct just to fit your rationalizations? Business must survive - it has to adapt to changing environmental factors which in this case has everything to do with legal issues which, save a few, no one has even attempted to consider.
          Yes, it must survive, but it doesn't mean they have to go the Amazon route.

          We have given many suggestions in this thread.

          If they go the Amazon way, Clickbank will go extinct.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10299245].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Chris Chicas
    It's apparently obvious that Clickbank simply does not care about affiliates and those that built their business.

    There are many top affiliates that have seen their earnings completely drop this week, and many more will continue to see this in the coming weeks -- even if CB decides to reverse this idiotic idea - the damage is done and will continue to pervade for a long time to come.

    Smart affiliates are already abandoning ship. As a vendor I just can't trust CB anymore.

    At the end of the day you have a choice. And that's what is great about the IM business.

    I think that Warrior Plus and JV Zoo really get affiliates, and have a great, working business model for content creators. They are always updating their platform and have great customer service. I'm not going to tell you who to go with, but if you're smart you would at least discover what they are about.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10299173].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author SunilTanna
      There are other reasons why the ClickBank market place isn't a consumer-orientated marketplace:

      1. Many (most?) of the descriptions are written aimed at affiliates.

      2. The descriptions are per vendor - not per product. If a vendor has multiple products, some of their products, even best sellers, might not appear in the marketplace at all. And in some cases, vendors describe several products in the description, but the market place link only leads to one

      3. Some vendors who use affiliates to drive traffic, redirect the landing page when there is no affiliate to their affiliate info page.


      If CB wants to create a consumer-orientated marketplace they need to collect consumer-orientated descriptions for every product (not vendor), not just remove the word "Affiliate" from the page heading. They would also need to do this while maintaining their existing affiliate marketplace in parallel (assuming they don't want to cannabalize their existing business).


      Here are some actual descriptions in the marketplace - if you browse the marketplace, I don't think you will find they are untypical. Is really likely that consumers consumers will browse listings like these, and then choose one to buy?


      6 Minutes To Skinny: Make $22-$160 Per Sale
      6 Minutes To Skinny Is Converting At A Monster Epc Of $1.54 To Cold Media And $1.74 To Affiliate Traffic. That Is Real Data, Not Hype. Http://www.turbulencetraining.com/affiliates/CB/in dex.html

      Fitness For Tennis
      Super High Converting Tennis Fitness & Nutrition Site With Awesome Sales Video Filled With Real Content. Find Out How You Can Cash In Too: Http://www.fitnessfortennis.com/affiliates

      Finding Mr. Right - Women's Dating Product (view mobile)
      Affiliate Center: Http://affiliates.commitmentconnection.com

      Oily Skin Solution - Huge Untapped Market In The Skin & Beauty Niche (view mobile)
      75% Commission! Affiliate Material Available @ Http://www.oilyskinsolution.com/affiliates.html

      The Smart Option Trader (view mobile)
      Your Clients Are Going To Love This Detailed And Complete Course Which Will Show Them How To Analyze Positions And Earn Monthly Income. The Course Has Several Hours Of Video Examples. Everyone Will Make Great Commissions With This Hot Selling Product.

      Bodyweight Exercise Revolution: Equipment-free Is Hot In 2010
      Several Products - Great Reviews And Great Conversion. Bodyweightcoach – Affiliate Center

      Gold Standard Trivia Pub Quiz Questions And Answers (view mobile)
      Thousands Of Top-quality Trivia Quiz Questions & Answers. Great For Pub Quizzes & Charity Events And Ready To Use. Many Formats Available, Great Bonuses, Free Download, 10000 Free Bonus Questions. 50% Commisson For Affiliates, Several Products To Promote


      Multiple Home Repair Products
      Now Offering 8 Different Home Repair Products At Varying Prices, One Hoplink, Up To Eight Commissions! Lets See If We Can Beat The Current Economy =) Visit The Site To See What We Have To Offer.


      Dugi World Of Warcraft Guides (view mobile)
      The #1 Wow Guides And Addon Since 2005. High Recurring Rebill Of $6.99 Will Make You More Money In The Long Run Than Any Other Wow Product Available. We're Setup For Multiple One Click Upsells And Rebills And Active With Email Campaigns.


      Pheromone Advantage: Attract The Opposite Sex With Pheromones (view mobile)
      Multiple Physical Products With Very High Epcs. 40% Commish! Avg. Sale $80+. 1 Click Up-sells. Multiple Products For Men And Women W/different Proven Landing Pages You Must Sign Up Here For Best Links And Copy= Http://dramend.com/affiliates


      The King's Game - Earn Up To $230 Per Sale
      Fresh New Dating Offer For Men. 75% Commission + Multiple Upsells + Great Product = High Epcs. Conversions On All Types Of Men's Traffic. For Tools Visit Http://www.thekingsgame.com/affiliates


      The Music Coach
      Get Started On Your Musical Journey Today With The Music Coach! Lessons On 10 Different Instruments. High Conversions, 50% Commission On All Products, Multiple Price Points And Recurring Billings. Http://www.yourmusiccoach.com/affiliate-tools

      Easy D.i.y Chicken Coop Plans www.chickenkit.com/affiliates.php
      Huge 75% Payout. Super-high Converting Multiple Products & Offers Up To $47. You Get 75% On All Of Them. Chicken Coop Plans, Chicken Care Guides & Much More. Very Cheap PPC & Low Competition! Free Tools Here: Http://www.chickenkit.com/affiliates.php
      Signature
      ClickBank Vendor?
      - Protect Your Thank You Pages & Downloads
      - Give Your Affiliates Multiple Landing Pages (Video Demo)
      - Killer Graphics for Your Site
      SPECIAL WSO PRICES FOR WARRIORS + GET THE "CLICKBANK DISCOUNT" TOO!
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10299249].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author nicheblogger75
    Let's face it- Clickbank is a joke. They are on their way out. Jump ship before it sinks!

    And I don't buy that whole credit card fraud BS and waking up one morning with my business crushed over something the CC industry does. Totally ridiculous.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10299253].message }}
  • {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10299256].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author nolan59
      if Clickbank is having such a problem with refunds and fraud, then they should sort situations like what happened to me today:

      2:24pm - CB Sale
      2:33pm - Customer attempts to reset password
      2:40pm - Custom locked out from too many wrong passwords
      2:49pm - Customer emails our support desk
      2:59pm - Support desk replies to customer with a password reset
      3:01pm - CB Ticket, Refund, Open
      3:07pm - CB Ticket, Refund, Closed

      so from the customer purchasing to Clickbank refunding the customer because "Hello Vendor, This customer contacted ClickBank to request a refund because they contacted you for technical support on multiple occasions, but have received no response. Best regards, ClickBank.com Customer Service" took 43 minutes.

      What the heck. Clearly this customer's activation email ended up in their spam folder or something stupid like that.

      Did the customer give us a chance to respond? No.
      Did Clickbank give us a chance to respond? No

      It's just : the customer says your service sucks so we will refund the customer. Our ticket system gives you 6 minutes to respond to tickets submitted, no more, no less. After that we refund and you get a "bad customer service mark against your name as a stinky vendor".

      Needless to say when I send in a support ticket to query the situation, I get a "Our business hours are Monday through Friday, 8:00 am – 5:00 pm Mountain Time (GMT-6). We will respond to you as quickly as we can during those business hours!" canned reply.

      Sort out crazy situations like the one above, get rid of the serial refunders and stop approving subpar products then your bank will like you a little more and you won't have shove iframes down our throat.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10299304].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author TweetPilot
        Originally Posted by nolan59 View Post

        if Clickbank is having such a problem with refunds and fraud, then they should sort situations like what happened to me today:

        2:24pm - CB Sale
        2:33pm - Customer attempts to reset password
        2:40pm - Custom locked out from too many wrong passwords
        2:49pm - Customer emails our support desk
        2:59pm - Support desk replies to customer with a password reset
        3:01pm - CB Ticket, Refund, Open
        3:07pm - CB Ticket, Refund, Closed

        so from the customer purchasing to Clickbank refunding the customer because "Hello Vendor, This customer contacted ClickBank to request a refund because they contacted you for technical support on multiple occasions, but have received no response. Best regards, ClickBank.com Customer Service" took 43 minutes.

        What the heck. Clearly this customer's activation email ended up in their spam folder or something stupid like that.

        Did the customer give us a chance to respond? No.
        Did Clickbank give us a chance to respond? No

        It's just : the customer says your service sucks so we will refund the customer. Our ticket system gives you 6 minutes to respond to tickets submitted, no more, no less. After that we refund and you get a "bad customer service mark against your name as a stinky vendor".

        Needless to say when I send in a support ticket to query the situation, I get a "Our business hours are Monday through Friday, 8:00 am - 5:00 pm Mountain Time (GMT-6). We will respond to you as quickly as we can during those business hours!" canned reply.

        Sort out crazy situations like the one above, get rid of the serial refunders and stop approving subpar products then your bank will like you a little more and you won't have shove iframes down our throat.
        We've all been there mate...

        But don't worry, Clickbank will get a reply to you within 3-5 business days...
        Signature
        TweetPilot - Our New App Making it Easy to Gain Followers on Twitter... Coming Soon!
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10299380].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Nisip
          Banned
          Originally Posted by TweetPilot View Post

          We've all been there mate...

          But don't worry, Clickbank will get a reply to you within 3-5 business days...
          Interesting or strangely enough, Alexa shows a constant loss and collapse
          of Clickbank in number of users and visitors in the last period of time...

          the fall is free:

          clickbank.com Site Overview
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10300900].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author Okane
            It seems to be about time to look for alternatives.

            Presently, I only have one customer (Clickbank) which makes my tax declaration (here in Europe) very simple...

            Therefore, the MAIN feature I need (and Clickbank has it) is that the service must handle all VATs around the world for me. I don't have the resources to do that myself.

            My understanding is that JVzoo & Co. don't do that, right?

            How do other vendors outside the US (and with customers worldwide) handle this?
            Signature

            signature is on holiday

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10300982].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author SunilTanna
              @okane

              For software, I believe that fastspring and avantgate will do that too. I think there are at least a dozen other companies which also act as retailers, handle vat easily, and dont try and hijack vendor's traffic with a banner at the the top of every page. None is technically difficult to switch to.

              Cb ought to bear that any mind.

              No cb vendor or affil wants to switch - we chose the old cb platform because it worked well for us and we liked it. We would like to stay with cb in future. But if cb changes their business model in a way that harms vendors or affiliates, hijacks our traffic, then of course we are going to switch platform.

              As for getting affiliates to follow to a new platform, i'd imagine in most cases vendors already know which (likely a handful) of superaffils are driving their sales, even if the vendor didnt build an email list. And superaffils are in any case bound to check the vendors site if they see cb sales drying up. This really isnt a major obstacle to switching platform.
              Signature
              ClickBank Vendor?
              - Protect Your Thank You Pages & Downloads
              - Give Your Affiliates Multiple Landing Pages (Video Demo)
              - Killer Graphics for Your Site
              SPECIAL WSO PRICES FOR WARRIORS + GET THE "CLICKBANK DISCOUNT" TOO!
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10301044].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Michele Miller
                Well if they do try to enforce this, I will definitely be moving. They are not hijacking my traffic for their benefit. Can't believe they had the audacity to even consider suggesting or trying this out. I might leave anyway. They can't be trusted any more.
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10301223].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author Pnigro
                  Does anyone know of Clickbank alternatives that support Spanish?
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10301316].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author emilsb
              Originally Posted by Okane View Post

              It seems to be about time to look for alternatives.

              Presently, I only have one customer (Clickbank) which makes my tax declaration (here in Europe) very simple...

              Therefore, the MAIN feature I need (and Clickbank has it) is that the service must handle all VATs around the world for me. I don't have the resources to do that myself.

              My understanding is that JVzoo & Co. don't do that, right?

              How do other vendors outside the US (and with customers worldwide) handle this?
              If you only require payment and VAT handling, you might use a service like Gumroad.

              But this is not a CB competitor as they don't provide an affiliate platform. They do payment processing on your behalf.
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10301165].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author Michele Miller
              I think you might find 2checkout.com will do what you need. Doesn't have the affiliate side of things in place however. They also have a London, UK head office as well.

              Originally Posted by Okane View Post

              It seems to be about time to look for alternatives.

              Presently, I only have one customer (Clickbank) which makes my tax declaration (here in Europe) very simple...

              Therefore, the MAIN feature I need (and Clickbank has it) is that the service must handle all VATs around the world for me. I don't have the resources to do that myself.

              My understanding is that JVzoo & Co. don't do that, right?

              How do other vendors outside the US (and with customers worldwide) handle this?
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10301244].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author emilsb
                Originally Posted by Michele Miller View Post

                I think you might find 2checkout.com will do what you need. Doesn't have the affiliate side of things in place however. They also have a London, UK head office as well.
                I've used 2checkout in the past and they were reliable, although they had a very long cycle of releasing your funds (like 1.5 months).
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10301289].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author HypMovator
              Originally Posted by Okane View Post

              It seems to be about time to look for alternatives.

              Presently, I only have one customer (Clickbank) which makes my tax declaration (here in Europe) very simple...

              Therefore, the MAIN feature I need (and Clickbank has it) is that the service must handle all VATs around the world for me. I don't have the resources to do that myself.

              My understanding is that JVzoo & Co. don't do that, right?

              How do other vendors outside the US (and with customers worldwide) handle this?
              I am also based in the UK and have always used Clickbank because they handle all the VAT issues associated with the UK and Europe, which until now has made things so much easier for me to administer as a sole trader.

              European VAT laws have changed recently and now all UK/European Vendors need to submit a separate quarterly VAT return to every European Country.

              I would be really grateful if anyone knows of a viable alternative to Clickbank that operate in a similar way to Clickbank by paying all VAT to the various countries without me needing to account for or get involved in the process.

              Otherwise I may be stuck with Clickbank at least in the short term.
              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10330130].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author SunilTanna
                Originally Posted by HypMovator View Post

                I am also based in the UK and have always used Clickbank because they handle all the VAT issues associated with the UK and Europe, which until now has made things so much easier for me to administer as a sole trader.

                European VAT laws have changed recently and now all UK/European Vendors need to submit a separate quarterly VAT return to every European Country.

                I would be really grateful if anyone knows of a viable alternative to Clickbank that operate in a similar way to Clickbank by paying all VAT to the various countries without me needing to account for or get involved in the process.

                Otherwise I may be stuck with Clickbank at least in the short term.

                I believe that FastSpring and Avantgate will do that for software.

                There are others too, including for other types of products.

                I am also informed that the a European minimum threshold for VAT on downloads (exempting businesses selling less than a certain amount to EU) will likely be introduced by 2017.... although that's no consolation for the short term.

                Another option is simply to block all EU sales. If more than 90% of your sales are US/Canada only, which is the case for many English language products, why go through the hassle?
                Signature
                ClickBank Vendor?
                - Protect Your Thank You Pages & Downloads
                - Give Your Affiliates Multiple Landing Pages (Video Demo)
                - Killer Graphics for Your Site
                SPECIAL WSO PRICES FOR WARRIORS + GET THE "CLICKBANK DISCOUNT" TOO!
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10330201].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author HypMovator
                  Originally Posted by SunilTanna View Post

                  I believe that FastSpring and Avantgate will do that for software.

                  There are others too, including for other types of products.

                  I am also informed that the a European minimum threshold for VAT on downloads (exempting businesses selling less than a certain amount to EU) will likely be introduced by 2017.... although that's no consolation for the short term.

                  Another option is simply to block all EU sales. If more than 90% of your sales are US/Canada only, which is the case for many English language products, why go through the hassle?
                  Thank you so much for the quick reply and the advice, I will look into your suggestions and hopefully find a solution before the Clickbank implementation deadline next month.
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10330563].message }}
      • ClickBank:

        We have decided to release an official post regarding our collective response to your Always on Shopping Portal changes through the Warrior Forum. Our Warrior Forum account was created today specifically for this purpose.

        Our group's name is Affiliates And Vendors United against ClickBank's Always On Shopping Portal, or AAVU against CBAOSP.

        Our group is comprised of ClickBank vendors from the professional speaking, coaching, training and consulting industries. In sum, we are authors, content creators, information entrepreneurs, experts and thought leaders, and we have been in close communication over the last week since the announcement of your program.

        Suffice to say that we cover a significant swath of the personal and professional development markets that are represented by vendors (and the affiliates who promote us) in the ClickBank marketplace. Together we account for millions of dollars in sales that have been put through ClickBank's order processing in the last year alone, and a figure that is exponentially larger than that over the last decade.

        We are a large contingent of your vendors and affiliates, and our ranks are growing, especially after this post. We will NOT be ignored.

        Together, with the vendors and affiliates participating in this thread (and other such discussions currently happening elsewhere online), you will see that our unified voice is not only sizable and worthy of very serious consideration, but you'll also realize that we have the power to create a disastrous and sustained ripple effect for ClickBank's present reputation - and future viability.

        This is not a threat - it is a statement of fact.

        We would also ask that Warrior Forum members re-post this message across other forums, online communties and discussion spaces. We are standing as one unified group in opposition to this egregious abuse of trust that ClickBank is attempting to force on the vendors and affiliates that are it's very lifeblood.

        We represent every vendor and affiliate who has made ClickBank into the profitable company that it is today, and we WILL NOT allow you to blindly, systematically and callously damage our businesses.

        What follows is a very simplified, point-form version of our group's unified position on - and reaction to - ClickBank's recent Always on Shopping Portal. These points are only being made for the sake of clarity - a reading of this and other forums provides more than enough information about why these changes are so fundamentally misguided and unsound, and why they pose a catastrophic risk to the success of our businesses. A full breakdown of our position and our grievances, which will be in the form of a comprehensive public report, is forthcoming.

        So again, these are only very brief, point form facts surrounding this situation:

        1) If we comply with the demands of the CBAOSP, it will have a significantly negative impact on our respective site's branding, and by extension, on our conversion rates

        When arriving on our sales pages, our customers will see a URL change from www.merchantwebsite.com to shop.clickbank.net. This will immediately erode our credibility and become a sales leak that cannot be remedied or addressed in any capacity whatsoever.

        2) The new URL formatting damages our credibility and looks like a phishing site

        Is ClickBank so daft to modern conversion 'best practices' and so obtuse to a competently built sales conversion process as to believe that our traffic and customers will not be driven away by a ridiculous, spam-like URL such as the one you are attempting to force upon us? This point alone has caused many of us to already decide to leave ClickBank forever, regardless of the outcome of this battle. You have already caused us to question your business sensibilities in a basic, fundamental way.

        3) The banner (in ANY iteration) is distracting, confusing and will ruin our site's branding and overall sales funnel.

        There can be no moderation, reinvention or reiteration of the banner that will not ruin our sales page - both in terms of leaks, distorted branding messages and overall conversion rates.

        This Warrior Forum thread has plenty more to say on all three of these points, so there's no need to elaborate. In fact, there is a laundry list of other very serious grievances that we are not going to enter into at this point, all of which are clearly highly valid and accurate, and which have been deeply explored in this thread.

        Actually, the thrust of our group's message is more aimed at what we intend to do in reaction to the Always On Shopping Portal program, so let's proceed in that direction. Again, for the sake of brevity, we will list our intentions in point form.

        Note that for those who are in support of our group, the following demands speak for all of us:

        1) If CBAOSP is not redressed completely (i.e., abandoned entirely), the AAVU group and all our supporters will take immediate, unified action to migrate away from your company, both as affiliates and as vendors, in every capacity that a general 'mass exodus' might suggest.

        We will disassociate ourselves from you in a way that causes the least damage to our businesses, and which, cumulatively, will cause massive, enduring damage to the current size and future growth of ClickBank's vendor and affiliate base.

        2) The AAVU group will permanently blacklist ClickBank, and will publicly identify it as a company that willfully pursues actions that destroy the business interests of product vendors and affiliates alike.

        We will inform our networks, customers, partners and other business contacts that ClickBank has been blacklisted by the Internet marketing community at large, as well as officially by the AAVU group, being comprised of professional speakers, trainers, coaches, consultants, authors and various other types of information entrepreneurs, content creators, experts and thought leaders and any and everyone else who supports us and stands with our protest of ClickBank's Always On Shopping Portal program.

        We would also like to quote a few other points that have been raised on here, and were rebuffed by your official reply:

        1) ClickBank is being dishonest with vendors and affiliates

        TRUE. One need look no further than the obfuscating, misleading language used about the iframe 'testing' having come to an end, and also regarding previous emails about the AOSP program having been sent by ClickBank. No such emails were sent - any insistence by ClickBank to the contrary is a bald-faced lie and merely enrages us all the more.

        2) There is no relationship between ClickBank's former CEO abruptly leaving and the new COO (yes, the one who previously worked for Visa) launching the AOSP program.

        FALSE: We know that this is another lie. An insider source has told us that Tricia Phillips (https://www.linkedin.com/pub/tricia-phillips/5/b88/160) is the architect of this plan. As someone who knew how to 'put the squeeze' on merchants in the credit card world, Ms. Phillips is accustomed to treating those who sustain her company's business model very harshly in order to maximize profits and streamline processes. That same ruthless approach to leveraging corporate power and undercutting the little guy will not be tolerated when it comes to how ClickBank attempts to treat its vendors and affiliates.

        So Ms. Phillips, hear this: vendors and affiliates built ClickBank up, and as a unified group, vendors and affiliates will tear ClickBank down if need be, and you will be the one to blame. And it will happen because of your arrogant, narrow-sighted and utterly disrespectful approach to properly supporting the business people who helped ClickBank become what it is today. You should be ashamed of yourself.


        Ms. Phillips thought she would get away with the same approaches she learned at Visa by strong-arming vendors and affiliates who have trusted ClickBank for years. In one fell swoop, she has destroyed that business relationship and the hard-won goodwill and credibility that ClickBank worked for years in good faith to establish in this industry. Though Ms. Phillips has worked at Amazon and Visa, she has clearly demonstrated that she's woefully lacking in knowledge when it comes to the Internet marketing industry and this form of e-commerce.

        Ms. Phillips has been exposed as someone who does not understand the intrinsic correlations at play in this business space, and she is doing untold damage to ClickBank's reputation and long-term viability.

        3) ClickBank is trying to model themselves after Amazon

        TRUE. This is another instance of ClickBank failing to acknowledge that the traffic that comes to ClickBank is NOT ClickBank's traffic, unlike that of Amazon. Despite any legalese or technicalities suggesting otherwise, at the end of the day that traffic (and the customers, and the orders, etc.) belong to us - your vendors and affiliates - in the truest and fairest sense. But you have decided to be willfully ignorant of that fact by acting like our customers and our traffic belong to you, yet we can assure you that your greed and venality on this point will NOT be tolerated by us.

        If necessary, we will take our traffic and our customers to other providers who do understand the underlying truth of this fact.

        Any subtle or overt attempt to re-brand yourselves in an Amazon.com model will not succeed precisely because of your reliance on us, the vendors and affiliates who sustain and further your interests. We simply will not allow it to happen. Any assumption on your part to the contrary is an astonishingly arrogant insult to our intelligence.

        4) The real reason for the AOSP is security concerns

        FALSE. We are speaking privately with a ClickBank employee who is communicating directly with one of our group members throughout this crisis. We have learned that MasterCard approached ClickBank demanding an explanation for why so many fraud complaints are being levied against ClickBank.

        Rather than crack down on all the terrible, low-quality products that ClickBank offers, they opted to try to scalp their vendors and affiliates by appropriating their traffic in a ploy to increase long-term profits, rather than resolve the root of the problem - the junk products themselves (which ClickBank profits from).

        In other words, ClickBank has made the decision to continue profiting from junk products and suffer frequent charge-backs ahead of treating it's vendors and affiliates as the valued partners that they actually are.

        It's clear that this was a horrible and poorly considered decision, but you have not begun to see what the true scope of the long-term ramifications will be for your reputation and bottom line if you proceed with your program.

        5) This is the only option that ClickBank has in order to solve this problem

        FALSE. One need only to review the many, many solutions offered in this thread to see multiple other viable option that would work in place of the Always on Shopping Portal.

        There are many more 'true and false' points that could be raised here, but we would strongly encourage all of you - our AAVU partners - to fully educate yourselves on each of these points by thoroughly reading this thread and others in order to more fully grasp the true scale of ClickBank's outrageous offenses against us in trying to institute program.

        In Conclusion:

        ClickBank, you have lost our trust in a fundamental way.

        Anything short of a complete abandonment of your Always On Shopping Portal program will result in the actions described in this message. We will not accept a modification to the program, and we will not accept new 'iterations'.

        We are collectively prepared to begin a unified migration away from your platform, and a multi-industry blacklisting of your company.

        The reach of our influence as vendors and affiliates does not stop with what actions we can take against you for the necessities of our own businesses, but rather we will actively work to inform our contacts, partners and customers across our various industries that ClickBank has been blacklisted as a pariah retailer that will actively do damage to the businesses of those it works with, and does not have the best interests of customers - let alone vendors and affiliates - at heart.

        -Affiliates And Vendors United against ClickBank's Always On Shopping Portal group

        September 28, 2015
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10304066].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Jon Patrick
          Originally Posted by AAVU Against CBAOSP View Post

          ClickBank:

          We have decided to release an official post regarding our collective response to your Always on Shopping Portal changes through the Warrior Forum...
          I think people need a way to get in touch with you to participate in this. Other than a PM for members of the forum, I think a social media presence and perhaps a website may be in order.

          My thoughts... a lot of what you wrote could not have been said better. But I don't think a group like this, although important, is what will cause the most damage to ClickBank when it's all said and done.

          Simple business decisions made by the vendors and affiliates will.

          Vendors don't want a business partner which they use for payment processing and affiliate management trying to take over their websites, mafia-style. They don't want confusion when they introduce themselves to other potential business partners about exactly who their websites belong to. They don't want their traffic or their affiliates' traffic being siphoned away for ClickBank's own personal gain at their and their affiliates' expense.

          Meanwhile, affiliates don't want to send traffic through a platform that operates in an untrustworthy and unreliable manner. After all, they have to place a lot of trust in ClickBank to credit them properly with their sales. They also don't want to send traffic to leaky pages where the traffic will then be whisked away to a different website.

          ClickBank does not have the leverage to force this change on the community of vendors and affiliates who use their services. There are too many other options for payment processing and affiliate tracking, and the traffic that goes through ClickBank is not generated by ClickBank but rather by the vendors and affiliates themselves.

          And, needess to say, the idea that they would want to do this to their customers in the first place is disturbing.

          This whole fiasco has made ClickBank look like a shady operator, and maybe that is the reality after all. The company's credibility as a trustworthy and reliable platform has certainly been damaged. Its reputation will never recover if the leadership there does not walk away from this plot and begin to operate in a sane manner.

          Even if they do, they're already losing some of their business as a result of this miscalculation. I can tell you that we are already setting up alternative processing and affiliate management and will be making the switch regardless of what happens next. I'm sure we are not the only ones.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10304415].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author SunilTanna
        I'd prefer not to think of it being us vs cb, or us vs particular person in cb. We need cb to continue to follow a strategy that works for them and us. This is what has made them a success to date.

        The bottom line is of course it is our products, our traffic, our websites that consumers know. And if cb changes their model, we can quickly and easily, and absolutely will, move all of these to other platforms.


        As an aside, i cant believe the portal actually increased sales for cb when it was active.

        We've already discussed the effect on conversion rates (down) and bounce rates (massively up) when consumers visited a cb bannered page, most likely thinking they had landed on the wrong website if they were searching for a weight loss guide or a dating book....

        But another thing is i doubt the marketplace link generated much extra sales for cb either:

        What would have to happen is this:

        1. User clicks on a link to a site offering woodworking plans or whatever.

        2. User sees the cb banner and doesnt mind it looks like some kind of financial site or whatever (most likely user hasnt heard of clickbank), so doesnt press back. User also ignores the wrong url in the address bar, doesnt think its a phishing attempt, and doesnt press back. User also decides to forget about woodworking so doesnt scroll down.

        3. User thinks, i wonder what that market place link is, and clicks it.

        4. The user browses/searches the cb marketplace. He ignores the fact that most of the products dont have consumer-orientated descriptions (most cb descriptions are written for affiliates and describe how much affils can make by promoting), and that there are no images.

        5. Eventually user finds a product with a consumer orientated description and clicks it
        Lets say a link about improving your love life or whatever.

        6. User is now taken to a site about love life.

        7. He ignores the cb banner, again.

        8. He scrolls down and buys it.

        This seems such a remotely unlikely sequence of events that i cant believe it happened in more than a tiny percentage of cases.

        The whole process converts targeted traffic (which converts ) into untargeted traffic (which doesnt), and has multiple filters and obstacles to making a sale of any kind.

        The extra sales cb might get from the hijacked traffic thru the marketplace is always going to be massively outweighed by the loss of conversion from the original product site. In short, this is a bad idea from cb's point of view, even if we went along with it.
        Signature
        ClickBank Vendor?
        - Protect Your Thank You Pages & Downloads
        - Give Your Affiliates Multiple Landing Pages (Video Demo)
        - Killer Graphics for Your Site
        SPECIAL WSO PRICES FOR WARRIORS + GET THE "CLICKBANK DISCOUNT" TOO!
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10304700].message }}
  • I'm pretty sure clickbank doesn't care what I think but I'm against it. I just hate when things are forced on people who built your company, hopefully it will backfire on them!
    Signature
    soon people... Relax...
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10300259].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author writeaway
    That would definitely go a long way in professionalizing CB vendors.

    Better late than never, I guess.
    Signature