Marketers Mad at Marketers for Marketing

9 years ago

Truth be told I am a marketer mad at marketers that get your email and then use marketing to sell it to companies that spam your email account on a daily basis.. So am I in your new marketers that hate marketers for marketing group ?

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nicholasb

9 years ago

lol do you mean like selling your email to lead companies? I actually don't mind having my data sold but its easy to see why this is walking a fine line of ethics.

I personally dont sell my leads but I know people who do. sometimes I buy things just to get on data lists so I can see what other marketers are marketing.

Originally Posted by mrgoe

Truth be told I am a marketer mad at marketers that get your email and then use marketing to sell it to companies that spam your email account on a daily basis.. So am I in your new marketers that hate marketers for marketing group ?

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discrat

9 years ago

I get mad at Marketers who get Mad at other Marketers for being Mad at Marketers for Marketing

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nicholasb 9 years ago

ZING!

Mad Hatter Marketing someone bring tea

Originally Posted by discrat

I get mad at Marketers who get Mad at other Marketers for being Mad at Marketers for marketing
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Steve B

9 years ago

To be honest, I can understand some marketers getting mad at WSO sellers when they were told what a great product they'll be buying in the sales letter only to find out after the initial purchase that "in order to really get full advantage of this product, you've gotta have this upsell!"

Yes, I understand the psychology of the "bait" (the initial product) having a low price and then the upsell(s) is where the majority of the money is made. It's done all the time.

Whether the strategy is right or wrong, I won't comment on that. But my feeling has always been . . .

Why do anything to a customer willing to give you money that might leave a sour taste in his/her mouth - especially before he has even had a chance to try out your product?

Steve

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nicholasb

9 years ago

Well thats just marketers doing a bad job... An upsell isn't suppose to complete the product but be an addition to it.

I understand why they get upset in that case, but if someone was to offer a course on how to create a funnel and they lay it out in complete detail then as an upsell offer to do it for them or offer personal coaching or something theres nothing wrong with that.

Its not the upsell its self that is bad, if the marketer is like ok here is step one and 2 but you must buy something else to get step 3 that's crap... But it doesn't mean all upsells are bad.

Originally Posted by Steve B

To be honest, I can understand some marketers getting mad at WSO sellers when they were told what a great product they'll be buying in the sales letter only to find out after the initial purchase that "in order to really get full advantage of this product, you've gotta have this upsell!"

Yes, I understand the psychology of the "bait" (the initial product) having a low price and then the upsell(s) is where the majority of the money is made. It's done all the time.

Whether the strategy is right or wrong, I won't comment on that. But my feeling has always been . . .

Why do anything to a customer willing to give you money that might leave a sour taste in his/her mouth - especially before he has even had a chance to try out your product?

Steve

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Steve B 9 years ago

Originally Posted by nicholasb

An upsell isn't suppose to complete the product but be an addition to it.

Understood, and yes, I agree.

I think part of the problem is there are a lot of shades of gray - often depending upon what is said in the sales letter. The seller and the customer often aren't on the same page with what is being said or promised in the sales letter.

There is almost never any mention of additional money that's going to have to come out of the wallet if the buyer really wants to take full advantage of an offer.

Originally Posted by nicholasb

But it doesn't mean all upsells are bad.

Yes, I would definitely agree.

Here's the thing . . .

Buyers don't like "last minute" surprises. And many people resent having to wade through five upsells before they can download their product, especially when each one is a 15 minute video.

Again, I am not placing judgement here on what's right and what's wrong . . . just saying that I understand some of the frustrations of buyers dealing with some upsells.

Steve
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felisitie

9 years ago

Originally Posted by nicholasb

Well thats just marketers doing a bad job... An upsell isn't suppose to complete the product but be an addition to it.

I understand why they get upset in that case, but if someone was to offer a course on how to create a funnel and they lay it out in complete detail then as an upsell offer to do it for them or offer personal coaching or something theres nothing wrong with that.

Its not the upsell its self that is bad, if the marketer is like ok here is step one and 2 but you must buy something else to get step 3 that's crap... But it doesn't mean all upsells are bad.

I agree. I am a bit weary of upsells because sometimes you make a real sacrifice to buy a product and you spend all you have only to hit with an upsell after purchase and you just cant afford it and if the upsell completes the product for you to be guaranteed success then you would have just thrown your money down the drain.

I would think this would be daylight robbery...don't you think?

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trobo

9 years ago

What about when you opt in to a marketers list expecting to get valuable content, with the occasional offer here & there - only to end up getting one sales pitch right after another.

When I see this, it tells me the person has no idea how to run a real business. They don't realize that they need to be giving value or else people will just unsubscribe.

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writeaway

9 years ago

It's all about RESPECT

People who buy WSOs (instead of downloading them for free from BH dumps) expect a certain level of RESPECT

These people are paying customers and not leeches. They DESERVE to have their expectations honored.

Being upsold to Hades is usually not in their 'reasonable range of expectations'

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Brent Stangel

9 years ago

Buyers don't like "last minute" surprises.

No, they don't.

Marketers Mad at Marketers for Marketing

I'm immune to marketing. It's like a magician trying to get another magician to believe magic is real.

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dustinthigpen 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Brent Stangel

I'm immune to marketing. It's like a magician trying to get another magician to believe magic is real.

That comment made me laugh out loud. It is true that marketers can kind of "see behind the curtain" a little bit while reading a sales page/promotion or being pitched. They may even understand everything going on, but honestly, I don't think they're completely immune to the effects.

Sure, if I'm reading amateur hype filled stuff, I would agree.

But, if someone has written a truly awesome sales letter, with laser targeted copy that truly speaks to my inner most desires as a marketer, I would be hard-pressed not to click that "buy" button.

Just sayin...
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Raydal

9 years ago

Now that I've mastered that tongue-twister topic, let me say that I get impatient with
face to face sales people who use tactics I already know to sell me, but
not in print selling. I'll skip over the parts that I already know and sift through the
meat of the message.

I recently bought a Kindle ebook and half of the book was a sales letter for
the upsell course. That I think is stretching it. Give me he value I pay for
and then upsell me in another message, but do not use 50% of the space
in the initial product to try and upsell me. And I wasn't the only buyer
who was frustrated with this, because I read some 1-star reviews
who complained about the same thing.

-Ray Edwards

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shaunybb 9 years ago

lol yes your right about that. Try saying your title after few beers
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lucaspm98

9 years ago

Marketers just know what is going on here. They know that they are not getting the whole product at the face value of the product, and feel betrayed or annoyed when they have to spend more (often a lot more) to unlock the rest.

The general public just enjoys what they are getting, and are much more susceptible to upsells that they don't even really know is an upsell.

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The Cypher

9 years ago

Originally Posted by lucaspm98

Marketers just know what is going on here. They know that they are not getting the whole product at the face value of the product, and feel betrayed or annoyed when they have to spend more (often a lot more) to unlock the rest.

The general public just enjoys what they are getting, and are much more susceptible to upsells that they don't even really know is an upsell.

The biggest difference between the 'general public' and 'marketers' (specifically people on the Warrior Forum), is that they expect the world for $7 and you better be able to guarantee $100k in 2 weeks if they pay $47.

The mindset for Warriors here is baffling to me.

For example, in the 'real world' of Internet Marketing, people master mind all the time for free (because *gasp* the value of the mastermind is worth it?) and on this forum it's all about coaching products?

Think of all the 'mainstream marketers' they are all grouping up and have each other's phone numbers. There's no way it's because they want to sell coaching services to each other. I'm sure on occassion that happens due to the expertise some of them have, but seriously...

$47-97/mo fo email coaching? Now I know some people will take advantage of some one's time for questions in emails, but that's how you build up products. That's how you grow your product base. You figure out what your buyers want and still have questions for. That's just customer support and retention,

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Andre Slater

9 years ago

I seen a guy on here was mad that there were ads on the actual Warrior Forum site and he didn't like all the advertisements... coo-coo

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discrat 9 years ago

Originally Posted by Andre Slater

I seen a guy on here was mad that there were ads on the actual Warrior Forum site and he didn't like all the advertisements... coo-coo

Yeah I think that was the guy who didn't like Russel Brunson's ad on top of fold here.and made a whole stinkin Thread about it. LOL

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Kurt

9 years ago

I don't understand why sellers get mad if they are asked if there are any upsells. What's wrong with telling the truth?

Also, how many upsells and downsells can there be before it's OK for a customer to be annoyed? Should they have to scroll and click through 9 other offers before they can download what they bought?

And if a customer is given a "one time offer", shouldn't it really be a one time offer and not available in the "members area" all the time? If I can buy your "one time offer" at any time, you lose credibility with me. Be a little creative and call it a "customer special offer" instead and keep your integrity.

BTW, I'm a buyer and a seller.

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Andre Slater

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

I don't understand why sellers get mad if they are asked if there are any upsells. What's wrong with telling the truth?

Also, how many upsells and downsells can there be before it's OK for a customer to be annoyed? Should they have to scroll and click through 9 other offers before they can download what they bought?

And if a customer is given a "one time offer", shouldn't it really be a one time offer and not available in the "members area" all the time? If I can buy your "one time offer" at any time, you lose credibility with me. Be a little creative and call it a "customer special offer" instead and keep your integrity.

BTW, I'm a buyer and a seller.

True...

You are either going to have someone who doesn't want to invest anything and the $7 bucks broke them, or your going to have someone who wants to know how much they need to invest for the whole package.

With today's Marketing and people not falling for the obvious sales ploys, you do need to tighten up your sales tactics.

You shouldn't have a countdown timer on your Sales page if it doesn't really do anything at the end.

And I don't agree with a gazillion upsells after you buy...

And your right about one time offer. They market them like it's so super special that they are only allowed to show it to you that one time.

Just offer it at a discounted price if you buy right then, but offer it after the fact at a slightly higher cost in the members section.

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badboy_Nick

9 years ago

Originally Posted by nicholasb

Whats your favorite case of marketers being mad at marketers for marketing that you've seen?

When they deliberately use "over the top" sales pitch language when speaking to them or capitalizing the first word every time in an email message i.e. But Wait, There's More

I do tend to do that as well sometimes just to mess around with some of them for fun

Nick

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Trey Morgan

9 years ago

There is a song by a rapper that goes by the name of 2 Chainz and in the song he says "You getting mad.....I'm getting rich".

So, I understand that people might get mad at something I do, but if it works, I'm going to continue to do it, as long as it is not unethical or illegal.

Upsells can be annoying at times, but what is the point of getting mad? While you're getting mad that seller of the upsell is making money. If you buy a product and it has an upsell, you can choose to buy it or not. It's not like you're forced to buy the upsell.

If the product doesn't work without the upsell then that's a whole other story for whole other occasion.

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Kurt

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Trey Morgan

There is a song by a rapper that goes by the name of 2 Chainz and in the song he says "You getting mad.....I'm getting rich".

So, I understand that people might get mad at something I do, but if it works, I'm going to continue to do it, as long as it is not unethical or illegal.

Upsells can be annoying at times, but what is the point of getting mad? While you're getting mad that seller of the upsell is making money. If you buy a product and it has an upsell, you can choose to buy it or not. It's not like you're forced to buy the upsell.

If the product doesn't work without the upsell then that's a whole other story for whole other occasion.

In marketing, there's things known as "intangibles", which are things you can't measure. One example is, if you annoy your customers too much what impact will this have on future sales? It's impossible to measure, but I know it's something I strongly consider when thinking about buying from someone is how my past experiences with that seller went.

But, as a solutions orientated person, for the customers that want to avoid the upsell BS, if you buy a product from JVZoo after you purchase just log into your JVZoo account and look for "My Purchases". You can get the download/access info from there without having to go through all the potential upsells.

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discrat

9 years ago

Originally Posted by Kurt

In marketing, there's things known as "intangibles", which are things you can't measure. One example is, if you annoy your customers too much what impact will this have on future sales? It's impossible to measure, but I know it's something I strongly consider when thinking about buying from someone is how my past experiences with that seller went.

But, as a solutions orientated person, for the customers that want to avoid the upsell BS, if you buy a product from JVZoo after you purchase just log into your JVZoo account and look for "My Purchases". You can get the download/access info from there without having to go through all the potential upsells.

I agree to a certain extent. But you also have to look at Context. A few Non-MMO niches Im in you definitely can piss the customers off with too much promotion and the "intangible" assertion you mention makes sense.

However, in the IM Niche I have found that it is not only expected to have a lot of Upsells but if you do not have them a few people can actually get a little disappointed because they want more options to educate themselves and help their own business grow

Just as long as the Upsells are really quality

- Robert Andrew

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Marketers Mad at Marketers for Marketing

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