Can I be a successful at the affiliate game if I hate email marketing?

10 years ago

Absolutely you can. The majority responding to your thread will say the same but with the added advice that you should still capture subscribers. However. I'll give you an alternative: capture social followers.

- Tom

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EricBernard

10 years ago

You should do email marketing to help you boost revenue. Just find out the best tone or style for your site that you don't think would be offensive or annoying to your customers

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discrat

10 years ago

I do love Email Marketing. But Tom is and has been on to something very legit for quite awhile.

And it is not going away anytime soon. Social media and avenues like Facebook are definitely a way to have success in IM without the traditional use of Email marketing.

Many people equate 'Likes' with an email List. There is some Truth to that.

But I think having a optin form on the side of a Fan Page can be a good combo as well

- Robert Andrew

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arthurt

10 years ago

Btw, I have no idea how I did it, but I clicked "Thank You" & Tom Addams' name appeared

Clearly, I have much to learn...

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JohnMcCabe

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Tom Addams

If you doubt me, go ahead and take a look at the biggest sites on the net. Are they focusing on email marketing or social media?

- Tom

My wife's hobby is entering Internet sweeps and contests. Over the years, I've taught her how to avoid most of the scams. Since she regards my personal Facebook page as a way to garner more contest entries, I've landed on multiple email lists from some of the biggest companies on the net.

What I've seen is that most of them don't play either/or. They use email to drive people to their social media and social media to get people on their email lists. They tend to use both to drive visits to their main sites.

Which circles back to Anton's question. Can one be successful as an affiliate without an email list?

I say yes, but not as successful as one could be by utilizing email along with social media marketing.

Originally Posted by Anton543

Some excellent feedback. Thanks. What do you reckon about the idea of sending out my regular blog posts, which will of course be the usual content I post on my blog, and then the odd promotional item thrown in from time to time. Will this work? I will of course change my sign up form to ensure they are aware they may also receive the odd marketing of products, so they are effectively opting into potential marketing I might throw at them. Any time I do promote a product, should I stress within the email material I stand to gain financially if they were to make a purchase, or is that something not required mentioning since they're opted in?

Will it work? Maybe. Up to you.

Can it work? Absolutely.

People aren't stupid (with obvious and usually very visible exceptions). They know you aren't doing what you are doing out of the goodness of your heart. Even Mother Therese wasn't shy about hitting people up for donations. Play it straight, like you describe here, and show them respect. It will come back to you.

I got the impression that you weren't really anti-email, just uncomfortable with the "standard" way of doing it. That's okay. Just don't write off a potentially powerful tool because you don't like the way some people tell you to use it.

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Tom Addams

10 years ago

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

My wife's hobby is entering Internet sweeps and contests. Over the years, I've taught her how to avoid most of the scams. Since she regards my personal Facebook page as a way to garner more contest entries, I've landed on multiple email lists from some of the biggest companies on the net.

What I've seen is that most of them don't play either/or. They use email to drive people to their social media and social media to get people on their email lists. They tend to use both to drive visits to their main sites.

Which circles back to Anton's question. Can one be successful as an affiliate without an email list?

I say yes, but not as successful as one could be by utilizing email along with social media marketing.

Good points, John! In all fairness, though, you have fairly limited experience in social media, so it may be that your stance on the relevance of email marketing is somewhat influenced by not having an equal understanding of the two mediums.

Email marketing can be effective, is sometimes necessary, and until we have another means of personal communication that is more used, will never die out. However, some modes of email marketing are on the way out and some modes are ineffective or not required in certain contexts.

1. Social media is effective in some contexts; ineffective in other contexts.
2. More marketing efforts nowadays are driven toward social media marketing than email.

In terms of a marketing medium, social media marketing, due to various factors (many I mentioned above) is superior to email marketing. Email marketing, in most contexts, is still used and even required, but it plays second fiddle due to those advantages.

The lack of understanding here is perfectly exemplified by Randall who erroneously believes that the only benefit to marketers of social media is to sell products and services to Taylor Swift and TMZ fans. He fails two understand many things, but I'll finish off by highlighting two.

Firstly, just like email marketing is really about building trust with your audience, developing a relationship, social media marketing is truly - at heart - the very same thing. The only difference is that, due to the CMS involved, social media offers a stronger and more diverse means of relationship building, and due to the nature and acceptance of social media in our society, people are more willing to let relationships evolve. In marketing parlance: branding, brand building. A modern business is far more interested in building its brand than acquiring a new subscriber.

Secondly, practically everyone uses social media (not just Swift and TMZ fans, Randall). Go back in time and think of newspaper ads evolving to radio to cinema to TV and now to social media. Spend some money on Facebook Ads and see how expertly their system allows you to connect with your target audience. Consider further the increase in internet usage, Facebook offering free WiFi to the masses, how every company on TV, radio, in films, and everywhere else, is pushing their Twitter account name or asking you to like them on Facebook. The effect of all this, and more I could mention, is to usher more and more users to social media - a tsunami of marketing prospects.

So.

- Email marketing is not dead.
- Email marketing will not die until a better means of personal communication is universally accepted and used.
- Email marketing is a facet of "most" online business systems.
- Email marketing must be used in some business systems (ex: online dating).
- Email marketing is efficient in some contexts.
- Email marketing is inefficient in other contexts.
- Email marketing plays second fiddle to social media marketing.

That about wraps it for me - for now!

(And, John - please, don't take any offense at the above. I just like a good debate and I have strong convictions. When I feel I'm wrong, I'll admit it; when I don't, I'll argue the toss even with friends who I respect - even if those friends appear to catch bigger fish than me, you swine!)

- Tom

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JohnMcCabe

10 years ago

Tom, you may be right. I've been an email guy for the better part of two decades, and I'm definitely playing catch up on social media.

I once had a client that wanted me to help them decide if they should go with newspaper ads or radio ads. They were profitable with both. When we found that the two methods were not cannibalizing each other, I recommended that they do both.

I'm seeing the use of email and social media in much the same light. That's why I'm trying to add more social media to my toolbox, especially Facebook since my target market is more active there than other networks.

Excellent discussion, and I am learning.

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Tom Addams

10 years ago

Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe

Tom, you may be right. I've been an email guy for the better part of two decades, and I'm definitely playing catch up on social media.

I once had a client that wanted me to help them decide if they should go with newspaper ads or radio ads. They were profitable with both. When we found that the two methods were not cannibalizing each other, I recommended that they do both.

I'm seeing the use of email and social media in much the same light. That's why I'm trying to add more social media to my toolbox, especially Facebook since my target market is more active there than other networks.

Excellent discussion, and I am learning.

You're a good man, John. (Especially since you didn't whack me with a dead fish.) I have no doubt at all that you know far more than me about email marketing, and to be fair, this could also be the reason (just as I suggested for yourself) that I lean more toward social media. I got started with email a little over 10 years ago; social networks (not that we called them that) from the get-go. Anyway, I think we agree on most areas of the discussion, and like you say, it's been a terrific learning experience. I actually really enjoy the debate side of WF; it challenges what I think I know, making me earnestly delve into it and think about it, and more often than not I end up adding to my own knowledge toolbox by picking up pieces from chaps like yourself. I must admit, I never really like debating with people I like and respect, but I'm always thankful when it turns out okay, and no dead fish are flying in my direction. It was a pretty foolish move for me to argue the toss over SM and EM on a place like Warrior Forum - but, hey, I like a challenge, as is evidenced by 16 years of marriage!

Originally Posted by myob

Get over it or get out of it. There's going to be lots of tasks you'll hate in this business.

Thumbs up. One of the biggest misconceptions about IM is that we sit around all day in our PJs and do whatever the heck we like. If only. This is a hard business and I think it would surprise a great many outsiders if they new the sheer volume and diversity of tasks we have to master.

Originally Posted by myob

The bottom line is that people generally buy from those whom they like and/or respect. Your affiliate commissions may be quite dismal without relating and engaging prospects personally, particularly within the more competitive (ie lucrative) niches.

Exactly. If a chap like yourself or John released a WSO today, for instance, I'd snap it up for those very reasons. It boils down to trust. And this is the norm. Always has been. As a marketer, can you make good money (serious money) without trust? You absolutely can, yes. A great deal of the traffic I've sent over the years did not and does not require trust-building. But as you edge up the price scale, from free or cheaper products to mid or high-ticket ones (or if you want to be even more efficient with low-tickets), trust should be a fundamental aspect of your marketing. I do believe you can build trust without email, but I'll say this: dropping email because you don't like it is not the right way to go. I think as we've established so far in this thread, sometimes you just have to muck in regardless of whether or not you like something, and quite often in the case of EM, not using it can lead to inefficiency.

- Tom

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The Cypher

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Tom Addams

- Email marketing is a facet of "most" online business systems.
- Email marketing must be used in some business systems (ex: online dating).
- Email marketing is efficient in some contexts.
- Email marketing is inefficient in other contexts.
- Email marketing plays second fiddle to social media marketing.

That about wraps it for me - for now!

I think you're right on many aspects, but I personally don't think email marketing plays a second fiddle to Social Media at all.

You hit the nail on the head about some online businesses must use email marketing. And other businesses would thrive better using SM. Along those lines, I think the context you intended was that it's not an either or scenario but a diverging of marketing strategies.

I'd like to mention that many markets can't use Social Media effectively. Many health related companies. Financial industries, dating, any performance industries.

I'm not traditionally from the 'IM' niche either... So I may have a limited view on this. It's important to note that when I consulted for nightlife bars, I exclusively used Social Media, as the ROI was tremendously better versus email marketing.

Businesses like Agora are starting to get more involved with social aspects. I guess after I typed this all out... My consensus is this:

1. There is no second fiddle player.
2. All avenues of marketing have their place in different markets.
3. Email Marketing and Social Media are both completely valid avenues to promote in.
4. Both have increasing levels of limitations built into them, making it impossible for some and required for others.
5. Failure to do one of them just because limits your revenue potential.

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myob 10 years ago

Can I be successful at the affiliate game if I hate email marketing?

Get over it or get out of it. There's going to be lots of tasks you'll hate in this business. [That's what I've always told my students.]

The bottom line is that people generally buy from those whom they like and/or respect. Your affiliate commissions may be quite dismal without relating and engaging prospects personally, particularly within the more competitive (ie lucrative) niches.

I have found that reaching out to the most people within any given niche requires communication on many different levels including email, social media, online/offline print media, webinars, seminars, telephone, postal mail, and even belly-to-belly for most of the higher end deals.

If you're getting only 3-6% conversions, then perhaps you should consider widening your approach rather than restricting it even further. Having more tools in your marketing toolbox will provide leverage that can resonate more widely with the often divergent personal preferences within a targeted audience.
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Joan Altz

10 years ago

You can make money as an affiliate without email marketing, sure, but why would you want to cut out the extra revenue from email marketing just because you hate it? Every business consists of doing some things we like more than others. You should use every means to generate income as an affiliate that you can, hate it or not.

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Steve B

10 years ago

Just because you hate some task of IM doesn't mean you can't get it done!

Open your mind - get a little creative - find ways to outsource or automate the things you don't like doing. Think like a true entrepreneur.

Figure out ways to accomplish tasks that you don't do yourself!

Email is an important part of nearly every online profitable business I know.

Sure, you can get by without it, but as others have said, why limit your business needlessly?

Steve

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onSubie

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Steve B

Just because you hate some task of IM doesn't mean you can't get it done!

Open your mind - get a little creative - find ways to outsource or automate the things you don't like doing. Think like a true entrepreneur.

Figure out ways to accomplish tasks that you don't do yourself!

Email is an important part of nearly every online profitable business I know.

Sure, you can get by without it, but as others have said, why limit your business needlessly?

Steve

As Steve said the problem isn't email or not email or what you like or what you don't like but it is the fact that your first order of business is to throw up limitations.

Why not start working at what you do like, find a business model that fits with your skills and interest and then grow from there.

In the future you may find email marketing lucrative and simple. Or you may find success in your chosen business model without needing email marketing.

People make a lot of money with no email list by building niche sites. But if you don't like spending your day updating plugins, creating content, building new sites and updating old ones then it is not going to be a fun business for you.

There are many different income and business models in IM. Find one that matches your skills and interest, at least to start, and then grow your business to most benefit you and your needs.

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Brent Stangel

10 years ago

Many people equate 'Likes' with an email List. There is some Truth to that.

Really? That's news to me.

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maniarora 10 years ago

Yes! You can be successful in affiliate marketing without including email marketing.

However, emails are not only useful in affiliate marketing, they are also very helpful to generate traffic if Google kicks your site.

The legendary blogger John Chow's blog was once banned by Google, but his blog continues to grow as he was using his email list as an alternative source of traffic.

If you don't like promoting products to your email list, then just share your new blog posts with them. In this way you will generate more traffic and earn your subscribers trust as well.
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discrat

10 years ago

Originally Posted by Brent Stangel

Really? That's news to me.

In a sense , YES it is similar to Email Marketing !

If you have FB fans/Likes that regularly engage in your Content on your FB Page then when you Post in the future it will automatcially be sent out to 15% or more( depending on your Edgerank which is an Algo FB uses) of your Fans' newsfeeds when you update .

Kind of a little similar to a Broadcast

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Tom Addams

10 years ago

Excellent explanation, Robert.

Originally Posted by discrat

In a sense , YES it is similar to Email Marketing !

If you have FB fans/Likes that regularly engage in your Content on your FB Page then when you Post in the future it will automatcially be sent out to 15% or more( depending on your Edgerank which is an Algo FB uses) of your Fans' newsfeeds when you update .

Kind of a little similar to a Broadcast

To the OP and newbies:

There's something to be said for getting followers.

- Easier to get followers than subscribers
- Infuse content with viral potential; generate traffic (from engagement)
- Less negative stigma, thus more responsive audience
- Easier to brand and brand-build
- Easier and quicker to communicate information
- Traffic growth is easier
- Remarketing is simple and accepted

It depends on the niche, the market, the specific audience, your product and or service.

Give you an example: MMORPG Gaming.

Option 1: Squeeze Page.
Option 2: Social Media.

Your target audience is unlikely to subscribe to your newsletter. They're far more likely to subscribe to your Youtube Channel, to like your Facebook Page, to join your Facebook Group, to follow you on Tumblr, to follow and join your Google-Plus page and community, to follow your tweets, and so forth.

If you know what you're doing with social media, and in 2015, you tend to do much better (on the whole) than you would with an email marketing campaign.

If you doubt me, go ahead and take a look at the biggest sites on the net. Are they focusing on email marketing or social media?

Of course - Warrior Forum is the ideal place for the above stance to elicit quite a delightful reaction:

"Heresy! Burn the bugger at the stake! Heck, turn that swine INTO a steak!"

But then, in MMO, the main market here, email marketing is hugely prevalent. The trouble is, you actually have so many people enforcing the list building model here, and wrongly in most cases, that a situation has developed where the almost unanimous thought is that it must be used. Inertia, really. No offense to anyone. I'm not targeting this at anyone in particular. It actually tends to be the newer marketers who - through no fault really, just lack of experience - see list building as the best situation in all contexts, which just isn't so.

- Tom

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The Cypher 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Brent Stangel

Really? That's news to me.

Right?

For everyone that really wants to build a business...

Social Media and Email Marketing in my opinion are far from being similar. Or even comparable in nature.

I didn't quote discrat's reply, but I'd have to disagree here. Email marketing is something the marketer can control, similar to paid advertising. SEO, Social Media and whatever other free traffic methods youre into all have a catch... And FBs catch is that you bend to their algorithm and your business relies on that algorithm.

Not to say there arent hoops you are bound to jump through eventually with email marketing, but having a 20k fan page and having a 20k email list is thousands of dollars different from each other.

In my humble opinion, marketers, especially those that are in the 'IM' space, grossly over estimate Social Media.

Just wanted to express my opinion on the subject.

EDIT:

Furthermore, OP, if you're too lazy to run aa list or get someone to do it for you, then one of two things are happening...

1. This isn't a business to you. It's more of a hobby.
2. Marketing isn't for you.

Both of these are perfectly fine by the way. You just have to figure out what you want at the end.

It's like saying you don't want to go through the hassle of setting up a WordPress site, so you're going to stick to Blogger. Nothing wrong with that, but you're leaving money on the table and setting yourself up for failure
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Complex

10 years ago

[DELETED]

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r10gordon90 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Complex

Do you hate money?

;-)

That was funny!
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munir ahmed

10 years ago

Hi
The simple truth is if they are on your list and you don't promote a product, well guess what my friend they are probably subscribed to many other people list also...

So if they are looking for something that you don't offer then someone else will offer it to them and they would be happy to buy it if they trust the person they have subscribed to...

Sometimes people are willing to pull out their credit cards to those who they trust, so promote the products that you have used and know that your list will benefit from them...

Do not promote something that looks fancy and when they spend there money in it then they don't benefit from it... Always do your research what is it that your list wants and how can you provide them that will give them more value, at the same time you make your living.

TRUST ME IF THEY GET VALUE FROM SOMETHING YOU HAVE PROVIDED THEY WILL TRUST YOU MORE AND WONT HESITATE TO PURCHASE AGAIN WITH SAME OR MORE VALUE...

I personally don't have any other ways to make money without emailing, but set it up once in the auto responder and all you do is move the people who you believe or know will be interested and can benefit from it....

Good Luck and wish you find a way that works good for you...

Originally Posted by Anton543

I hate the idea of capturing emails to market products/services. I only have people signing up to RSS feeds so I can send out blog posts. I don't like the idea of email for marketing. Getting people to sign up is one thing, the idea of keeping them warm in order to market to them at regular intervals is not my cup of tea.

I used to make good number of sales off my product reviews (about 3-6% conversions) and even 0.5-1% off regular content (non-reviews) on a few of my articles. Latterly, I've decided to remove the affiliate links at the end of articles, as I felt there was conflict of interest. I did not want to damage the reputation of the site. The review site, however, I have no issues with in terms of carrying the affiliate links.

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nocturnal911

10 years ago

Yes ofcourse! I don't do email marketing, but i am successful. But if you add email marketing, it will be really good. Having a big list is like you no need to worry about traffic source. You can get passive income.

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Anton543

10 years ago

Some excellent feedback. Thanks. What do you reckon about the idea of sending out my regular blog posts, which will of course be the usual content I post on my blog, and then the odd promotional item thrown in from time to time. Will this work? I will of course change my sign up form to ensure they are aware they may also receive the odd marketing of products, so they are effectively opting into potential marketing I might throw at them. Any time I do promote a product, should I stress within the email material I stand to gain financially if they were to make a purchase, or is that something not required mentioning since they're opted in?

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Randall Magwood

10 years ago

I would stick to the bread and butter of online marketing: squeeze page & email marketing to pitch your product. Why re-invent the wheel with new *tools* that doesn't work well for all niches? You're better off doing email marketing. Social media is fine.... if your audience are Taylor Swift and TMZ fans.

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Tom Addams 10 years ago

Originally Posted by Randall Magwood

I would stick to the bread and butter of online marketing: squeeze page & email marketing to pitch your product.

The bread and butter of online marketing is traffic. Full stop.

Originally Posted by Randall Magwood

Why re-invent the wheel with new *tools* that doesn't work well for all niches?

Social media is hardly a "new tool."

Originally Posted by Randall Magwood

You're better off doing email marketing. Social media is fine.... if your audience are Taylor Swift and TMZ fans.

The above has me almost lost for words. Your assertion is that social media limits our potential target audiences to "Taylor Swift and TMZ fans." I'm quite astounded that a marketer with almost 10,000 posts thinks that. Actually. Remove the quite. lol

- Tom
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Marc Rodill

10 years ago

Well, this doesn't have to be as hard as you're making it out to be. You're already writing articles and posting them up. Just write articles that are specifically for YOUR subscriber's list only. And if you want to once in awhile, have the short "article" link to a page where they can get more information about whatever you're writing about.

Easy peasy. Your methods will evolve over time. But that's a good start. Short daily articles, list only.

Marc

PS. You call them blog posts. Same thing. So send your email list "blog posts". You get the idea.

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Teravel

10 years ago

In this forum, it's hard to go a day without hearing the line "The money is in the list"...

Of course, most of the people that are talking about "List building" have little knowledge of what a list really is. Most often, they're just parroting what they have already heard in order to sound like everyone else.

In reality, 'The List' everyone is shouting about, is nothing more than a direct connection between your business and consumers.

A few comments above have talked about Social Lists, which use the various Social networks as a medium between your business and consumers.

Another way to build a list without email marketing is to build a membership website. Sure, members need an email to register... But, that doesn't mean you will be sending them emails. As long as your content remains useful and interesting, your members are sure to return for more.

The point of building a list isn't always to send offers to your consumers. More often, it's to remind those consumers that you are sharing useful information in a topic that they have shown interest in.

So... Yes, you can be successful without email marketing.

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jbsmith

10 years ago

Lots of ways you can attract traffic, in a way, that's the easy part.

If your objective is to run a business though, then you have to place them into a lead funnel at some point - there's no way around it.

I have coached many big name bloggers who made it big with content when blogs came onto the scene - problem was, they weren't make very much money and at some point they had to convert all of that traffic and good will into a business. Some did, some never did get past the business part of it and their blogs are now either gone or at least relegated to obscurity (very few people read them anymore) and still others have transitioned into jobs (paid content developers - employees or contractors)

If you have negative thoughts around selling and converting content into leads and leads into sales - you should not be growing your own business - period!

Do you have faith that your products and services (either your own or those you are promoting) are the best option for your prospects and will make a difference in their lives/businesses? If yet - what's wrong with using every technique possible to put it in front of them?

Those that get offended or leave see no use or value in the product anyway - so it doesn't really matter.

Having them hang on for another year reading your blog posts may be good for your ego, but if they never buy anything, you have to ask what real value that is to you?

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Can I be a successful at the affiliate game if I hate email marketing?

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