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Help: Feeling defeated and looking for advice/guidance

by ngagne
26 replies
Hi all,

I've been a long time reader here, but this is my first post. I'm looking for advice/guidance, but wanted to give my back story first:

I started working with affiliate marketing almost 10 years ago promoting web hosting products. I made a few sales pretty quickly, which was encouraging for my first attempt, but it quickly dried up. I've worked in other various niches, built lists, but never saw any real profits.

I've been a full-time software engineer (web, desktop, mobile) at a fast-paced consulting firm for the last 10 years. I don't want to sound like I have a big head, but I believe I have a real gift when it comes to software. I have an ability to quickly visualize solutions, and I routinely take on and deliver projects that my fellow developers think either unfeasible or impossible.

About 3 years ago I partnered up with a marketer, salesman and a designer to produce a social network product for a specific business niche. After spending about 1.5 years of nearly all of my free time developing this product, there were no real sales, the salesman backed out suddenly and the marketer gave up completely. I was crushed.

After that, the designer and I took our ideas (and lessons learned from the first product) and partnered with another salesman, who had a record in internet marketing. I completely rewrote the original product to be less niche specific and more flexible in what markets it can target. I spent the next year of my free time developing this product only to realize that the new marketing guy was only doing this to try and get me to come work for the company he held a position at, and hadn't even tested the product we'd been working on, never mind sell it. Another crushing blow.

Since then I've produced some mobile games and applications, but haven't seen any success from them. I spent several months developing my latest trivia game, but it was rejected due to possible copyright issues.

Sorry to vent. It's hard to keep going on when you feel like everything you've done has gone to waste. I realize it's not a complete waste as I've learned valuable lessons from my mistakes and continue to develop my programming skills, but it doesn't make it any easier. I see my co-workers go home and spend their free time doing leisurely activities, while I spend most of my free time trying to build a successful product, and yet I'm no better off then them.

So, to make a long story short, I'm here to gain wisdom and direction. I know I have the ability to build essentially anything software-wise, but marketing isn't my strong point, and I don't know what direction to go in. I haven't been one to ask for advice from others (admittedly part of the problem) so this is my start.

I humbly thank you for any advice/guidance you can offer.
#advice #advice or guidance #defeated #feeling #guidance #software
  • Profile picture of the author discrat
    Well it sounds like you truly have some good skill sets. You seem to have the technical abilities ( that are in demand) now you just need to hone your Marketing skills.

    You can network around here and possibly find partners who could help you out in that regard.

    Or you can absorb a lot of the content from really bright entrepreneurial minds in here. And teach yourself this stuff.

    I think you might pursue the latter but be open to the former.

    Use the Search button to look up topics that will further your knowledge in Marketing Online.

    Thats all I did when I first got here years ago, and it gave me a good foundation to build on


    - Robert Andrew
    Signature

    Nothing to see here including a Sig so just move on :)

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    • Profile picture of the author ngagne
      Robert,

      Thanks for your advice. I'm open to networking with others, I'll be the first that there's always areas that I can improve upon. I've been doing some research, it can just be a bit of information overload sometimes and difficult to narrow down a single direction.
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  • Profile picture of the author allegandro
    First of all, I understand your problem.

    Mine was similar, I just had the luck to turn my idea/product into another idea and product.
    I working on my dream project already for years, and yes all the money I made I put into it.
    Every month I spend 10K. This is money that I also could use on family, holidays and nice cars.
    But I didn't, I choose to risk all.

    I think you should ask yourself this question:"Do I want to be happy now, or do I want to chase my dream. And if I choose the second one, how realistic is it that my dream in the future will be better than the life I give up now?"

    I think/hope that I get back 100x I invest now in 2-4 years, so for me it is worth all the missing out. But if you are not sure/ or not believe in it. Then I advise you, take a rest. Be "normal for 6 months"

    Now you have 6 months that you can enjoy life, get new energy and if needed restart.

    Wish you all the best.
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    • Profile picture of the author ngagne
      Thanks allegandro,

      It's good to hear from others who have been there. I appreciate your advice with "normal for 6 months" and will definitely be pursuing that a bit. I'm married and have children and this can be an extremely difficult balance (as I can see most know), especially when you look back on the time spent and think about what you've missed.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve B
    Sad story, but to be honest, you haven't even given Internet Marketing a try yet (except for your early experience with a few affiliate sales).

    I would think you ought to get off the mindset that you need to have a partnership in order to see success. That strategy hasn't worked for you yet. Stop putting your business life in the hands of someone else.

    You've been a member here for 7 years yet this is your first post. Spend some time here, ask questions about IM regarding those topics that you don't understand. Stop relying on others and chart your own course.

    The fact that you're an outstanding developer is an asset that you can easily monetize, especially if you already have a product that is done (or nearly so). Just make sure your product is something that is in demand. If it is, you have a clear path to a niche business already.

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author ngagne
      Thanks Steve,

      I know I haven't given affiliate marketing the same level of effort that I gave those failed partnerships, I was just looking for a way to best use my strongest abilities (software development vs marketing.) I wouldn't say I was looking for a partnership, or that I looked towards others for success, as they came to me, but I will agree that during that time I was putting my business life in their hands, so I completely understand your point.

      As a former long time lurker, I'll take a more open approach to my development of products and just ask for feedback and advice here as I go.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
    As Marlon Sanders exclaimed: "Half-Done AIN'T DONE!!"

    You have a lot of half-done stuff going on there, OP.

    To make money, you need to be getting finished solutions in front of qualified buyers.

    Make that your focus.
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    • Profile picture of the author ngagne
      Jason,

      Thanks for the feedback. The frustrating part was that during those partnerships, the product was done (minus sufficient real world testing) but the other end fell through. Since the software itself is still good I should be able to pick up the other half and hopefully turn it into a profitable business.

      The solo products also highlight my lack of marketing skills - likely that other missing half.
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  • Profile picture of the author DURABLEOILCOM
    Originally Posted by ngagne View Post

    Hi all,

    I've been a long time reader here, but this is my first post. I'm looking for advice/guidance, but wanted to give my back story first:

    I started working with affiliate marketing almost 10 years ago promoting web hosting products. I made a few sales pretty quickly, which was encouraging for my first attempt, but it quickly dried up. I've worked in other various niches, built lists, but never saw any real profits.

    I've been a full-time software engineer (web, desktop, mobile) at a fast-paced consulting firm for the last 10 years. I don't want to sound like I have a big head, but I believe I have a real gift when it comes to software. I have an ability to quickly visualize solutions, and I routinely take on and deliver projects that my fellow developers think either unfeasible or impossible.

    About 3 years ago I partnered up with a marketer, salesman and a designer to produce a social network product for a specific business niche. After spending about 1.5 years of nearly all of my free time developing this product, there were no real sales, the salesman backed out suddenly and the marketer gave up completely. I was crushed.

    After that, the designer and I took our ideas (and lessons learned from the first product) and partnered with another salesman, who had a record in internet marketing. I completely rewrote the original product to be less niche specific and more flexible in what markets it can target. I spent the next year of my free time developing this product only to realize that the new marketing guy was only doing this to try and get me to come work for the company he held a position at, and hadn't even tested the product we'd been working on, never mind sell it. Another crushing blow.

    Since then I've produced some mobile games and applications, but haven't seen any success from them. I spent several months developing my latest trivia game, but it was rejected due to possible copyright issues.

    Sorry to vent. It's hard to keep going on when you feel like everything you've done has gone to waste. I realize it's not a complete waste as I've learned valuable lessons from my mistakes and continue to develop my programming skills, but it doesn't make it any easier. I see my co-workers go home and spend their free time doing leisurely activities, while I spend most of my free time trying to build a successful product, and yet I'm no better off then them.

    So, to make a long story short, I'm here to gain wisdom and direction. I know I have the ability to build essentially anything software-wise, but marketing isn't my strong point, and I don't know what direction to go in. I haven't been one to ask for advice from others (admittedly part of the problem) so this is my start.

    I humbly thank you for any advice/guidance you can offer.

    Have you sought positions corresponding to your field on Indeed, Monster, and Career Builder. Also working as a Freelancer on micro jobs like Fiverr and other job sites.
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  • Profile picture of the author jimmcdonald909
    Never rely on someone else unless you meet them face to face, get a gut feeling, and an iron clad contract drawn up. No excuses allowed.

    Treat all people as hostile until proven otherwise.
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    Huge profits in lower priced, micro cap, momentum stocks
    www.investmentswithadifference.com

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    • Profile picture of the author ngagne
      jimmcdonald909,

      Thanks for your advice. These were people that I either was either directly friends with or were directly connected with those friends. We had contracts in place, but I'm not sure there's much that can be done when they just leave.
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    • Profile picture of the author ngagne
      Thanks for the recommendations durableoilcom,

      I've been working full-time at the same consulting firm for the last 10 years. It's a good job, it's stable and the income is good, but I've basically hit a ceiling there; there's isn't any more room for advancement.

      I do overtime and freelance, and it's nice extra money, but I'd really like to build a way where the money can work for me, instead of always the other way around. I'm hoping to build something profitable and sustainable for the long-term.
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  • Profile picture of the author Phil Essex
    My two cents is start a site with a forum that you give advice on.Go to simialr forums and post giving peoplke advice..they will emd up going to your site. Offer a simple course in what you know the best and charge $500 for it. It will work - $500 is nothing for good info that helps people...
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  • Profile picture of the author Market4Keyword
    What you describe is not a rare thing. I partnered with programmers in the
    past, and many times I discovered I too wasted months of work (and they did as well). You see, developing software or any product is risky. That's why
    most programmers go work for a company..
    Developing your own product (and selling it) or a business
    is hard, and most people fail at it.

    You could start developing a software today, and after
    few month of work - you discover someone already developed it.
    It happens A LOT.

    You can fail 100 times, but it only takes 1 time to
    become a success story. You don't need more than that.

    Maybe you should forget about "working with" marketers
    and partners. You developed a software? Launch it and
    use services like JVzoo to find affiliate marketers that will promote
    your product. Instead of trusting 1 person (that as you describe,
    let you down after so MANY hours of code writing ), work
    with hundreds of affiliate marketers that will be paid per sale.

    I do honestly understand how tough it is for you. Wasting a year
    or more coding only to discover your "team" breaks apart. Read more about
    Internet marketing, affiliate marketing etc.. Then, think how you can
    use your coding skills to make money with IM.
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  • Profile picture of the author ngagne
    Thanks Phil,

    That's good advice. At the very least, I can see it being beneficial to help drive people to a software product, instead of a course specifically.
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    • Profile picture of the author Phil Essex
      Originally Posted by ngagne View Post

      Thanks Phil,

      That's good advice. At the very least, I can see it being beneficial to help drive people to a software product, instead of a course specifically.
      Well I have been doing this a LONG time -15 years plus (OMG) I tried everything you can imagine and make a pittance here and there until I figured out that selling other peoples stuff for $10 dollar commissions was never gonna put food on the table.It might be fun now and again but it's not a business.

      That's the key - you got to make a business that works. And to do that you have to figure out what you know - what value is in it and how to market it. Like everything else it takes some practice and generally a eureka moment. That moment comes when you are also ready to work for it., Hoping to get rich quick is generally never going to pay off. A few people do it but hey -get real....figure out what you know - find out how to serve people with it and offer real value...
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      • Profile picture of the author ngagne
        Originally Posted by Phil Essex View Post

        That's the key - you got to make a business that works. And to do that you have to figure out what you know - what value is in it and how to market it. Like everything else it takes some practice and generally a eureka moment. That moment comes when you are also ready to work for it., Hoping to get rich quick is generally never going to pay off. A few people do it but hey -get real....figure out what you know - find out how to serve people with it and offer real value...
        Thanks Phil,

        Your advice is motivating. I definitely didn't expect to get rich quick but was hoping to be a bit better off in this journey. Either way, I'll take it as a learning experience.
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  • Profile picture of the author ngagne
    Thanks Market4Keyword,

    I'll spend some time researching how best to market this (and future) products. When I got into this, I did expect there to be failures along the way, I just hadn't expected to spend over a year to reach that conclusion.

    Speaking of, I have an issue of not really knowing when to hold out and when to bail out. Sometimes you just get so caught up in a product you've worked so hard on that you become blind to the sinking ship, but on the other hand you don't know if your big break will come by holding on just a bit longer...
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  • Profile picture of the author dlane1987
    Have you considered selling your skills as a freelancer? If software is what your good at why try affiliate marketing? Maybe you would be better off trying to make more money from what you already do.
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    • Profile picture of the author ngagne
      Originally Posted by dlane1987 View Post

      Have you considered selling your skills as a freelancer? If software is what your good at why try affiliate marketing? Maybe you would be better off trying to make more money from what you already do.
      I do freelance and overtime at my full-time career, but I'm hoping to build something profitable and sustainable for the long-term, where the money starts working for me.
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      • Profile picture of the author dlane1987
        Originally Posted by ngagne View Post

        I do freelance and overtime at my full-time career, but I'm hoping to build something profitable and sustainable for the long-term, where the money starts working for me.
        So you're looking for passive income. My blog is full of ideas and I am always adding more. See my signature. perhaps you could build your own software and sell it. I will be doing a post on just that soon too.
        Signature
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        • Profile picture of the author ngagne
          Originally Posted by dlane1987 View Post

          So you're looking for passive income. My blog is full of ideas and I am always adding more. See my signature. perhaps you could build your own software and sell it. I will be doing a post on just that soon too.
          Thanks Dan,

          I'll check out your blog.
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          • Profile picture of the author Marx Vergel Melencio
            Ngagne,

            Continue thinking for yourself, but don't rely on anybody else. Do this while you're creating your business plan (market discovery phase), product development plan (USP creation phase), advertising / marketing plan (market outreach and traffic generation phase), traffic conversion plan (lead generation, customer acquisition and sales phase), customer engagement plan (repeat sales and buzz marketing phase) and customer support plan (repeat sales and word-of-mouth advertising phase) ...

            Here's an example on how to continue thinking for yourself and not relying on anybody else, given the parameters that you mentioned in your OP, plus my other relevant resources:

            Hungry Android User Market > Free App with Premium Features in the Business / Communications / Tools Categories > CPI Ads in Free UI > Ad-Free UI for 1st 10K Users in Exchange for an App Review Posted in Google Play > Promo Code for Unlocking Premium Features > Avail of Promo Code by Giving Away Email > Activate Premium Features by Calling Partner Support Center and Giving Promo Code in Email > Partner Support Center Upsells High Value, High Ticket Subscription Products That Earn ME Recurring 40% Commissions Per Sale > Advertise My App Through Credible Non-Incentivized PPI and PPM Networks ...

            Why Android? Why these categories? Why CPI ads? Why ad-free UI for 1st 10K users who leave honest reviews in Google Play? Why promo code for unlocking premium features? Why get emails of users for promo code? Why drive user traffic as inbound calls to partner support center so as to get recurring 40% commissions per high value, high ticket subscription sale? Why advertise in credible non-incentivized PPI and PPM networks?

            Well, let's say my business, product, advertising / marketing, traffic conversion, customer engagement and customer support plans all point me to those things ...
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            • Profile picture of the author ngagne
              Thanks Marx,

              Looks like you have a really streamlined process going. Thanks for laying it all out. This part in particular seems like it would be especially effective: "Ad-Free UI for 1st 10K Users in Exchange for an App Review Posted in Google Play". Google doesn't have any rules against doing this do they?
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              • Profile picture of the author Marx Vergel Melencio
                Hello Ngagne,

                You're welcome.
                Just to clarify -- That was only an example, which I formulated from the top of my head; and

                My point is that you need to carefully go through the phases that I mentioned, in order to create a ralistically viable plan ...

                So, upon checking if it's possible to do that with an Android app, the answer is:

                https://support.google.com/googlepla.../2985810?hl=en
                QUOTE:
                •Don't solicit ratings through incentives--Do not offer users any incentives to rate your app, such as offering rewards of any kind or tying app functionality to rating ...
                /QUOTE

                Hope this helps. Cheers!
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                • Deep Learning & Machine Vision Engineer: ARIA Research (Sydney, AU)
                • Founder: Grayscale (Manila, PH) & SEO Campaign Manager: Kiteworks, Inc. (SF, US)
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  • Profile picture of the author Brandon Sean
    You;re definitely not alone in feeling this way

    Alot of people on the warriorforum feel this way from what I surveyed while getting on skype calls with them.

    You need something solid and you need to scale it hard when you find something that works!<< I know this is a simple advice.. But its a powerful one.

    All the best!
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