Is $1300 a good price?

70 replies
This forum convinced me to get professional help (not THAT kind of help).


I was mainly looking for SEO and a modest amount of editing. We first sent my website ( My Site - Home ) to a pro (he just finished a job for HP) and he worked out some SEO an other issues. Paid him $150, cheap, yes?


The link I posted was my old website which is going down soon.


However, my friend said that the site looked "home made." I think he was too polite to say it looked like it was designed by a mentally challenged person.


So, we are completely re-doing everything except for my text/content which is, IMO, very good. The site is a relationship and self improvement site, but I am unique. 12 years ago, before I met my wife I was active in the seduction community. There are various stages, the highest being "Pick Up Guru." Mystery and Style were also PUG's and today have their own TV shows and best selling books.


My wife found my activity where I chronicled the game I ran on her. Thus I stopped participating out of respect for her and the fact that I could risk my college teaching job for trying to help men. I was dating 3 women a week and of course stopped seeing all other women. We are still married and she loves me more than ever. She pays the house and car notes (hers and mine) and is shopping for my dinner right now.


I apologize for bragging, but I am a master at getting women to love you, and staying in love with you.


The goal in the seduction community is to raise a woman's IL (interest level) to the point where she will have sex with you. Then you move on to another conquest.


I am different. My goal is more than a 1 night stand. I have my guys dating 3 women a week until they find the best. The goal is then LT Relationship and ultimately marriage/family.


Women communicate and keep score differently. And, it never stops. Keeping a woman in love requires daily work. 70% of divorces are filed by women.


I also base my program on Social Welfare policy, evolutionary psychology, evolutionary biology, rational actor modeling, and 12 step programs.


I merge the academic paradigms with the seduction material.


My goal is to make men stronger, inside and out. Towards that end I emphasize Spirituality, Bodybuilding, and Martial arts. I hold many titles in both disciplines.


Sorry for the ego driven long windedness, but I am very excited about this process. I change lives for the better.


OK, so, I have my content. I need editing of my martial art videos. My friend has offered to do everything for $1300. There are also fees that come up and I of course pay them. He guarantees 500 unique visitors a day.


I think that is a pretty good deal. However, should I structure a conversion bonus?


Say monthly sales. Offer him $1200 base salary, but at $2.5 k give him another $150, and 10% of all sales after that for a 6 month period.


Sorry for the long post, but please advise.
#$1300 #good #price
  • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
    That double sided thing is all wrong. Hopefully that is getting resolved.

    Please tell me you are moving away from Weebly and getting your own hosting and setting up a nice Wordpress site?

    Please tell me you are converting this to a private membership site, with your videos stashed inside and a nice members area, with a forum for members to communicate?

    Sorry to take you off course from your initial inquiry.

    No clue what your friends capabilities are for editing and driving traffic or even what the quality of the videos are themselves.
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    • Profile picture of the author Key Seek
      Thank you Jill....you raise excellent points. Not off course in the slightest.


      Yes, Weebly will soon be gone. It is now just a place where my content is organized.


      We are using another host...Bluehost I believe.


      Also. yes, I have thought about a forum, I just don't want to get drawn into internet pissing matches, especially since male centered self help is already controversial.


      In terms of private membership, yes I have thought about that. The plan is to get a newsletter with privileges.


      In terms of my content, I do NOT want to limit access. The same for most of my videos. I have lots of footage, and the public stuff will be more oriented towards fancy submissions and exotic FMA flow drills.


      What I am selling, is a series called "Fundamentals of Fighting".


      Most of the top/famous Martial Art schools, I have trained at many, tailor their curriculum to advanced students. They are not focused on the basics for a beginner. Also, it is very very hard to find real FMA's (the absolute best knife fighting program).


      What I am doing is geared towards the beginner and fundamentals.


      So, I am posting my more fancy stuff for the public, but my fundamentals is a highly organized system and is only for sale.


      My friend, I believe, is very talented. However, he is starting dental school, so he is not a pro.




      Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

      That double sided thing is all wrong. Hopefully that is getting resolved.

      Please tell me you are moving away from Weebly and getting your own hosting and setting up a nice Wordpress site?

      Please tell me you are converting this to a private membership site, with your videos stashed inside and a nice members area, with a forum for members to communicate?

      Sorry to take you off course from your initial inquiry.

      No clue what your friends capabilities are for editing and driving traffic or even what the quality of the videos are themselves.
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      • Profile picture of the author Steve B
        So you are an expert on "The fundamentals of fighting"

        and

        you are also a "Pick Up Guru."


        Those two specialties often feed off each other, I would imagine.



        Good luck with your new business,

        Steve
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        Steve Browne, online business strategies, tips, guidance, and resources
        SteveBrowneDirect

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        • Profile picture of the author Key Seek
          Originally Posted by Steve B View Post

          So you are an expert on "The fundamentals of fighting"

          and

          you are also a "Pick Up Guru."


          Those two specialties often feed off each other, I would imagine.



          Good luck with your new business,

          Steve


          Actually, that is the not completely far fetched. Seduction "techniques" will only take you so far. Ultimately, your success with women will rely upon your intrinsic value as a man. Bodybuilding and Martial arts INCREASE that value. They teach discipline, respect, hard work, and increase your value as a PERSON.


          Ultimately, women want a man with value, you have to have something to offer.


          That is why I emphasize spirituality, education and never ending personal growth.


          One must always remain teachable. I am 53 and still learning new things every day.


          So basically, you are saying I am an arrogant prick....which is probably true. Your response illustrates my hesitation to start a forum. I want to focus on my students, not my achievements.


          If you would like to discuss the substance of my relationship system I welcome you. Please read the material and come back to me with specific questions.


          Here are some of my qualifications:


          MARTIAL ARTS

          Black Belt in Japanese Jui-jitsu

          Blue belt in Brazilian Ju-jitsu from Renzo Gracie
          Ranked #5 by the North American Grappling Association

          Eastern States BJJ Champion
          Renzo Gracie Combat Classic champion.


          Boxing, Karate, Muay Thai, 3 year Varsity Wrestler, JKD, Filipino Martial Arts, Soliz Progressive Fighting Systems, San Shou, Krav Maga, Tactical Firearms Training, CHL certification.


          This is the condensed list. I have trained with half the Gracie family, boxed in the Cus Damatto (Mike Tyson's coach) and many other well known pro's (and lesser known MMA pros).


          BODYBUILDING

          NPC Mr. San Francisco
          NPC Mr. Iron Man
          five top 3 placings.
          Six Drug Tested Competitions
          40 Years of Training


          I have prepped many competitive bodybuilders and designed training programs for other athletes who simply want to look their best. I will tailor for you a customized program based upon your goals, genetic predisposition and age.

          ACADEMICS

          PhD,
          Rockefeller College of Public Affairs, SUNY Albany.
          MA, San Francisco State University

          BA, San Francisco State University
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          • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
            Originally Posted by Key Seek View Post

            Ultimately, women want a man with value, you have to have something to offer. <snip>

            So basically, you are saying I am an arrogant prick....
            Women also like a man with a sense of humor. Steve was just having a little lighthearted fun - don't be so quick to take offense.

            .
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            • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
              If these are going to be public videos, I'd suggest you start a specific channel for them and toss em' into youtube and optimize them (would ask your friend if he is familiar with that).

              Proper editing can be a PITA.

              So is he just editing and offering traffic?

              Honestly, it's your choice if you want to bring him in with added income increasing.

              It's a matter of how much of the business you want to give away, but if he proves his weight then maybe it is worth it to you.

              Bringing the traffic in is one thing, conversions are another.

              Good to see you have a cut off period in a contract. But I'd not go that long with it. I'd kick it back to monthly intervals with evaluation at the end of each month personally.
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            • Profile picture of the author Steve B
              Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

              Steve was just having a little lighthearted fun - don't be so quick to take offense.

              Frank,

              You know me too well . . . that's a little scary.

              My apologies Key Seek. When I spend a lot of time on this forum I tend to want to find ways to make things interesting. I can assure you my sense of humor had no intention of calling you out personally. It was just an observation of the marriage of two interesting niches.

              I should hold my tongue more often. Sorry about that.

              Steve
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              SteveBrowneDirect

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              • Profile picture of the author Key Seek
                No, No, No...your are fine in my book. Admittedly, it is a pretty ****ed up book. But you are OK.


                It is all good. People say I missed your humor, that is ironic because the "arrogant prick" part was an attempt by me to be funny.


                Having said that, we need to get you a new haircut.....zing!


                Now THAT is quality humor.




                Originally Posted by Steve B View Post

                Frank,

                You know me too well . . . that's a little scary.

                My apologies Key Seek. When I spend a lot of time on this forum I tend to want to find ways to make things interesting. I can assure you my sense of humor had no intention of calling you out personally. It was just an observation of the marriage of two interesting niches.

                I should hold my tongue more often. Sorry about that.

                Steve
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            • Profile picture of the author Key Seek
              Originally Posted by Frank Donovan View Post

              Women also like a man with a sense of humor. Steve was just having a little lighthearted fun - don't be so quick to take offense.

              .

              But no, really....I AM an arrogant prick
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  • Profile picture of the author Regional Warrior
    Hey Mr Sensitive

    In post #5 you may want to delete the last sentence asking a person to come back at you with questions makes this thread a follow me thread and not allowed under new rules.

    And they like to nuke threads like this.
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    • Profile picture of the author Key Seek
      Originally Posted by Regional Warrior View Post

      Hey Mr Sensitive

      In post #5 you may want to delete the last sentence asking a person to come back at you with questions makes this thread a follow me thread and not allowed under new rules.

      And they like to nuke threads like this.

      Sigh. Nuke away, as I have gotten the advice I needed.


      Lets just re-cap: Steve made a joke. Fighting/PUG having a symbiotic relationship.


      I joked back, claiming to be an arrogant prick. We then had some other humor, back and forth.


      Calling me Mr Sensitive is Ironic, as you never got any of the jokes.


      For you, I am going to use some good, really basic humor. Everyone, young and old likes kicked in the testicles humor, yes?


      Having said that, here is the TRUE M arts expert I am currently studying under.


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      • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
        Being spiritual involves attaining a balanced body.

        Steroids won't allow this, so be sure to avoid.

        Same wisdom is yours, if you attain balance.
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  • Profile picture of the author yukon
    Banned
    You have zero backlinks on three 3rd party link checkers, a small 13 page site & no on-page SEO.
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    • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
      Originally Posted by yukon View Post

      You have zero backlinks on three 3rd party link checkers, a small 13 page site & no on-page SEO.
      He's moving the site all together, so pointless(or just more work) to bother with SEO until it's moved.
      Signature

      "May I have ten thousand marbles, please?"

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      • Profile picture of the author yukon
        Banned
        Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

        He's moving the site all together, so pointless(or just more work) to bother with SEO until it's moved.

        Either way he's starting with nothing because he's not ranking any pages without decent followed backlinks.
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        • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
          Originally Posted by yukon View Post

          Either way he's starting with nothing because he's not ranking any pages without decent followed backlinks.
          Oh, I agree.

          SEO kick-off is going to be a snap on a fresh site (for someone who knows what to do).

          And for what you found, I agree (if I think I understand what you are saying), if 150 was already paid out for that then OP would be better off hiring someone else to SEO.

          Going back and reading the initial post, "modest amount of editing" needs to be better defined.

          When I subcontracted years ago editing the wedding videos I had shot, I got $200 a pop for those (just the editing part), and it was not modest as those could run 2 hours or longer for the final product.

          For that money, OP might want to entertain sticking the job up for bids and finding someone more qualified.
          Signature

          "May I have ten thousand marbles, please?"

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          • Profile picture of the author Key Seek
            Hi Jill. Thanks again. To clarify, I will be doing modest editing of content, myself. The structure, backlinks, SEO everything is completely new. I have a bunch of raw footage M arts stuff that also needs editing.


            I am a complete idiot when it come to computers and web design. In fact I am an idiot at most things.


            Kidding aside, I have gotten good substantive advice so far, thank you, everyone.


            Everything (except content) is being redone from the ground up. Backlinks, SEO etc.


            My friend is a really smart guy. He could do this type of work for a living, most likely, except he wants to be a dentist. As a freshman in High School he made quite a bit of money hacking the schools system to change final grades. That impressed me. Zing.


            Also, we are involving a real pro to do SEO once we get there.


            Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

            Oh, I agree.

            SEO kick-off is going to be a snap on a fresh site (for someone who knows what to do).

            And for what you found, I agree (if I think I understand what you are saying), if 150 was already paid out for that then OP would be better off hiring someone else to SEO.

            Going back and reading the initial post, "modest amount of editing" needs to be better defined.

            When I subcontracted years ago editing the wedding videos I had shot, I got $200 a pop for those (just the editing part), and it was not modest as those could run 2 hours or longer for the final product.

            For that money, OP might want to entertain sticking the job up for bids and finding someone more qualified.
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  • Profile picture of the author Regional Warrior
    Delete this

    If you would like to discuss the substance of my relationship system I welcome you. Please read the material and come back to me with specific questions.
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  • Profile picture of the author Regional Warrior
    Not me , the mods remove them if remove the sentence be good to see the thread last a bit or not up to you
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  • Profile picture of the author YourBizAid
    Banned
    First off, you tell your guy to move you away from Weebly ASAP... Then work on a fresh new design. Preferably, a premium wordpress theme on 'relationship' will do your website wonders...

    Start from there. If you're on a budget, start with the $1300 deal, if not, scale up as soon as you can. It's a profitable niche. I know.

    K
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    • Profile picture of the author Key Seek
      Yes, this has all been done. From the beginning I was told that I needed a ground up plan. I will keep the text but the site will be 100% new.


      It is a very profitable niche. And it is more than just teaching men to get women. There is a ton of literature documenting the bad effects of children growing up in single parent homes. And, I do not blame women. It is long developing historical social and economical forces that are to blame. Here is a story to illustrate why.


      For 99.9% of human history things (dating, marriage family) were simple. Hunt, gather, protect, work, provide were all a man needed to do. As recently as 60 years ago, hard work and loyalty were all men needed to have stable careers and marriages. You could just "be yourself." This simpler role has been replaced by a much more complex and confusing role.

      Today, as a man you have to constantly learn, grow, and adapt.

      Being a good husband and father should be all that matters, yes?

      Why then, are so many good fathers and husbands living in a dingy apartment driving a beat up old car? Why is your ex wife sleeping in your house with her new boyfriend



      Why can't you see your children? Why is a third of your paycheck missing?

      Massive historical, sociological, and economic forces combined to create this reality.



      The world today is a bewildering place for men. They are completely unprepared for maintaining relationships with women. Especially for nice guys.


      We all know that 50% of marriages end in divorce.


      But did you know that 70% of divorces are filed by women?


      Why? The academic literature could not fully answer the question. They concluded that women "grew apart" "lacked communication"...however, no one could state the real underlying cause. That is because the answer would kill your career. I had to wait until I stopped teaching to publish my conclusions done through a meta analysis of the literature and real life experience.


      Why are most divorces filed by women? Simple, women fell out of love, and that is why they divorce.


      A very tiny % filed for the reasons that originally launched our marital laws and culture (abuse, alcoholism, infidelity).


      For tens of thousands of years, women were treated very badly. By the 1930's divorce, cohabitation, and custody laws/child support laws were passed. The goal was to protect women and children. However many academic studies highlight that children and women suffer because of our laws.


      And of course the honest, hardworking nice guy will suffer the most. After government backed withholdings a divorced man with 2 kids making $100k a year will live as if he makes $30k a year. He will be lucky to see his kids once a week.


      In todays world, women control everything. Guys think they decided when they became exclusive, when you became engaged etc.


      Nonsense, it is ALWAYS the women who is in control of the relationships. Guys, stop living in a fantasy world. You do not control ANYTHING except your own behavior.


      There is only 1 thing you can do: Keep your wife in love with you. That's it. And unfortunately, most men do not know how to do this one thing.


      And you cannot do it with a big expensive gift. You think an $80K sport Utility for a birthday present won you 50 love points. Sorry, it won you 1 point.


      Listen to a women talk about her day, 1 point, take out the garbage, 1 point. You also get points for avoiding arguments.


      And I am not going to even breach the question of different communication styles.


      Men do not understand relationships take constant work. They do not recognize that they are losing 1 point a day.


      When interest level drops below 50% you are done. She will leave, and you have no idea what in the hell happened.






      Originally Posted by YourBizAid View Post

      First off, you tell your guy to move you away from Weebly ASAP... Then work on a fresh new design. Preferably, a premium wordpress theme on 'relationship' will do your website wonders...

      Start from there. If you're on a budget, start with the $1300 deal, if not, scale up as soon as you can. It's a profitable niche. I know.

      K
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  • Profile picture of the author RogozRazvan
    The seduction community.

    It's been a while since I've heard about it. I remember how I was almost obsessed about this. I used to spend hours reading, watching videos and taking notes.

    There was mASF which was actually a home for some cool people (and many keyboard jockeys).

    Seduction lead me to self-development and self-development lead me to everything else. I think I've learned more about persuasion from dating then from Cialdini .

    Leaving this aside ...

    What the heck are you paying him a base salary? For a redesign? You're better off with a flat fee.

    Btw, is this niche still active? I've been in the niche a few years ago. Now David DeAngelo is focused mostly on his business side, Mystery ... I don't know what the hell is doing, BadBoy Lifestyle launched a product in 4 years, Carlos Xuma is almost gone ...

    ... I know that people want to get companionship for emotional and physical reasons but I can swear that the PUA niche is not what it used to be before.

    There was a time when there were two niches dominating, the PUA one and the MMO one and if you think that MMO meant make money online, you are wrong. It was multiplayer games, with guides about World of Warcraft sellings in tens and thousands of copies.

    Btw, I love your enthusiasm
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    • Profile picture of the author Key Seek
      You know your stuff. Mystery has his own reality show, and Style seems to also be doing well. I suggest his book "The Game" to many guys I work with.


      I was on MASF.....what an awesome forum! Don't know why it was closed.


      I was transitioning from PUA to PUG right before I met the women who is now my wife. Her pic is on my home page.10 years later our marriage is fantastic. Keeping a woman in love with you is still a daily job, but it gets easier.


      Here is my story: Everyone should know that I am not just bragging. I was a drunk loser, but became clean/sober many years ago. To do so I became a "nice guy."


      How did that affect my ability to attract women? Badly. I ended up divorced, 35, and living in a rat infested house in the ghetto. I worked 70 hours a week but was in poverty. My son was 2.5k miles away.


      If you are interested in my story, read my web site, from Home Page to my Selection Machine (a spin on Anti-dump).


      It took years to master my system. When I met my wife (lets call her Susan, her pic is there.....she is very pretty, and I am very ugly) I was managing a 3 women rotation.


      When I met my wife I knew she was special. I broke it off with one gal, and gave my Tuesday slot to Susan. The prettier, the more special a women is, the more disciplined you must be. Only action dates with frequent venue changes. You don't see her on Saturday. Eventually, if you make no major mistakes, she asked "why don't you see me on the weekend....are you seeing other people?"


      I replied "yes, 6, but you are my favorite." Same thing about divorce "only four times, but I think the next one will work."


      Over 8 weeks she broke up with me twice. Each time there was a huge break up letter taped on my bathroom mirror. We were back together in 48 hours.


      One Sunday, I had a gal over. 5 minutes after she left there was a knock on my door. It was Susan, visibly flustered. She said "I left my coat and need it."


      It was 80 degrees out. As she left she stopped and said "I am going to fight for you."


      I said "pardon me?" She said "I don't care if you are seeing other women, I am going to fight for you!"


      I nearly fell on my ass. I ended everything with all other women. We have had good times and hard times, but our love for each other has only grown.


      She is really way out of my league, I keep her because I use tools to ensure I don't make mistakes.


      Back to MASF. I was still very active, but mostly was coaching new guys.


      One day Susan whipped out 17 pages printed out on MASF. She said "I can't believe you used all these seduction techniques on me!" Out of respect for her, I stopped participating.

      It is a shame that forum is gone. The guys there (many are now famous) really knew their stuff.


      Today, there are more "Seduction Gurus" than ever, but 90% of their advice is horrible.
      Originally Posted by RogozRazvan View Post

      The seduction community.

      It's been a while since I've heard about it. I remember how I was almost obsessed about this. I used to spend hours reading, watching videos and taking notes.

      There was mASF which was actually a home for some cool people (and many keyboard jockeys).

      Seduction lead me to self-development and self-development lead me to everything else. I think I've learned more about persuasion from dating then from Cialdini .

      Leaving this aside ...

      What the heck are you paying him a base salary? For a redesign? You're better off with a flat fee.

      Btw, is this niche still active? I've been in the niche a few years ago. Now David DeAngelo is focused mostly on his business side, Mystery ... I don't know what the hell is doing, BadBoy Lifestyle launched a product in 4 years, Carlos Xuma is almost gone ...

      ... I know that people want to get companionship for emotional and physical reasons but I can swear that the PUA niche is not what it used to be before.

      There was a time when there were two niches dominating, the PUA one and the MMO one and if you think that MMO meant make money online, you are wrong. It was multiplayer games, with guides about World of Warcraft sellings in tens and thousands of copies.

      Btw, I love your enthusiasm
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  • Profile picture of the author RogozRazvan
    Thank you.

    I have heard's about Mystery show, on VH1, however, as far as I know, that was years ago. I wasn't interested in it. I liked the community more when it was "hidden". There was a time in which very few people knew what an opener or LMR means.

    Here's a piece of practical advice. What works in seduction doesn't always or most or the time works in sales letters.

    You think the copy on your website is great.

    Actually, it is not. Apart from breaking every possible copywriting rule, it comes down as self-serving and "I oriented". This works in dating (after all, the bad-boy always leaves home with the prom queen) but not so much in copy.


    It is 6:10 AM and I want to catch the sunrise on the beach, so I'll keep it short.

    1. The headlines's job is to stop someone who doesn't know you, doesn't care about you, never heard about you. It is very weak. It needs a strong benefit (a direct one, not an implied one).

    2. The deck copy let's say that it makes more sense but you lack credibility. The base rule is that if you make a big claim, you back it up with proof. Your prospect is skeptical and if you take someone who hasn't got laid for the last 4 months and visited porn sites more often than Google, you've got a real credibility problem on your hand.

    3. Your wife is beautiful but I suggest you add a photo of you and her. Her alone doesn't impact the sales message that much. Again, skeptical market. They'be been burned many times.

    4. Your qualifying questions are all over the place. Are you selling seduction info or self-defense info? Even if you can do both, you shouldn't group them together. It is not like someone after jerking off thinks ... "Hmm, I wish I could get laid but I wish I also could protect myself and my loved ones". I do see how it connects and it is a major insecurity for most people but don't connect them together!

    5. Lead copy. Lacking reason why and proof, big time. Always ask yourself "why". Why should I believe you that you've been counseling men? Why should I believe you that you can improve the quality of my relationships? He doesn't know you and seduction works with blind statements like this because there are other factors in play (like body-language, tonality and such).

    6. I ... I ... I ... I ... I. It is not about "I". It is about "you". You will learn how to attract, date and get women to fall in love with you. Stop putting yourself center stage. You are a PUG but I've been long enough in this field for him not to care. He only cares how you'll solve his problems.

    I hope you won't take these personally, since you seem very attached to your copy. These are some suggestions that will help you dramatically and I would continue but I have to go.

    Best regards,
    Razvan
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    • Profile picture of the author Key Seek
      Razvan: You make some great points, more good than flawed I want that to be very clear.


      Thank you very much for your comments. You are correct, it needs to be less "I" oriented. I am going to revise and remove as many "I" s as possible.


      However, I don't think that you were paying attention to a number of basic factors. Many of your criticism were addressed fully. They can be found beneath my home button and I will link them better.

      The problem is the site is not properly structured. Thus, it is more my fault than yours. that you missed them. A proper web design should resolve most of these issues.

      Again, I am grateful that you are kind enough to help. I appreciate that. You are also correct in some other areas as I will lay out


      You say that my wife is pretty, then you say I need a picture of her and me together.


      There is a picture of her, myself, and our son together with the solo picture of her.


      This is exactly as it appears.





      My Wife, above, and family, below





      I am posting, then continuing my response in the next post.





      Originally Posted by RogozRazvan View Post

      Thank you.

      I have heard's about Mystery show, on VH1, however, as far as I know, that was years ago. I wasn't interested in it. I liked the community more when it was "hidden". There was a time in which very few people knew what an opener or LMR means.

      Here's a piece of practical advice. What works in seduction doesn't always or most or the time works in sales letters.

      You think the copy on your website is great.

      Actually, it is not. Apart from breaking every possible copywriting rule, it comes down as self-serving and "I oriented". This works in dating (after all, the bad-boy always leaves home with the prom queen) but not so much in copy.


      It is 6:10 AM and I want to catch the sunrise on the beach, so I'll keep it short.

      1. The headlines's job is to stop someone who doesn't know you, doesn't care about you, never heard about you. It is very weak. It needs a strong benefit (a direct one, not an implied one).

      2. The deck copy let's say that it makes more sense but you lack credibility. The base rule is that if you make a big claim, you back it up with proof. Your prospect is skeptical and if you take someone who hasn't got laid for the last 4 months and visited porn sites more often than Google, you've got a real credibility problem on your hand.

      3. Your wife is beautiful but I suggest you add a photo of you and her. Her alone doesn't impact the sales message that much. Again, skeptical market. They'be been burned many times.

      4. Your qualifying questions are all over the place. Are you selling seduction info or self-defense info? Even if you can do both, you shouldn't group them together. It is not like someone after jerking off thinks ... "Hmm, I wish I could get laid but I wish I also could protect myself and my loved ones". I do see how it connects and it is a major insecurity for most people but don't connect them together!

      5. Lead copy. Lacking reason why and proof, big time. Always ask yourself "why". Why should I believe you that you've been counseling men? Why should I believe you that you can improve the quality of my relationships? He doesn't know you and seduction works with blind statements like this because there are other factors in play (like body-language, tonality and such).

      6. I ... I ... I ... I ... I. It is not about "I". It is about "you". You will learn how to attract, date and get women to fall in love with you. Stop putting yourself center stage. You are a PUG but I've been long enough in this field for him not to care. He only cares how you'll solve his problems.

      I hope you won't take these personally, since you seem very attached to your copy. These are some suggestions that will help you dramatically and I would continue but I have to go.

      Best regards,
      Razvan
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  • Profile picture of the author Key Seek
    I am going to continue my response here. You are right about several things, but you claim I offer little proof and or credibility? How could you possibly come to this conclusion. I think I know why: It has not been properly structured and that is why you missed it. My bad.


    I spend page after page laying out the proof. I have tons of citations to back up my arguments, I just felt they would alienate my readers.

    I believe that we (members of first world democracies) are in a state of crisis. I say believe, but actually, that word is not strong enough. Its more like I have a shit ton of evidence to prove this and my other claims.

    My whole argument is proof. I explain how historical, social, economic, normative and cultural forces have converged into a perfect storm to produce modernity and the destruction of two parent families. There is a ton of literature pointing out that single parent families have much, much worse outcomes for children, how divorce hurts men....and women.


    Are my claims that Evolutionary Biology, Evolutionary Psychology, rational choice modeling effective predictor's of human behavior in need of support? As stated I have sources but that style of writing would drive people away. I just need better organization.


    Is my statement that women control relationships and call the shots in need of proof? The fact that women file for divorce 70% of the time is proof that most men are clueless when it comes to managing relationships.

    The problem is organization and structure. I need to get each idea organized and presented in the same place, probably with buttons or better linking.



    Now, there are a bunch of things you are correct about.


    I need to get rid of "I" You are `100% correct.


    I agree, getting bodybuilding and martial arts in the same program creates a diluting effect. However, these activities are fantastic for building confidence, health, and character. Along with spirituality, they increase value. Seduction techniques only go so far. You have to grow and improve as a person.


    I really want to keep them in the program, but will listen if you disagree.


    You are right about the headline, and advice is greatly appreciated. The same is true for lead copy. I discuss this later, Are you saying I should move this proof up to my home page? If so, I will do it. I counseled men for 14 years when I was teaching. I council men that I prep for BB comps. Every time it is about women.


    My plan is to do a video on this topic but yes, maybe I should move it to my home page.
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  • Profile picture of the author RogozRazvan
    Key, thank you for your diplomatic response.

    I just want to ask you a single thing.

    "Have you've ever considered that you are too smart for your target audience?".

    I think you are giving them a bit too much credit on what they can understand and what they can not. I've been in this game long enough to know. Please think about it.

    In any case, it was a pleasure helping you. It is nice to see someone who is so passionate about something that was at one point the center focus of my life.

    Best regards,
    Razvan
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    • Profile picture of the author Key Seek
      I used to be really smart, but not anymore.


      If you are suggesting that I need to simplify for my target audience, then yes.


      It is always better to keep things as simple as possible.


      So, how can I improve my headline?




      Originally Posted by RogozRazvan View Post

      Key, thank you for your diplomatic response.

      I just want to ask you a single thing.

      "Have you've ever considered that you are too smart for your target audience?".

      I think you are giving them a bit too much credit on what they can understand and what they can not. I've been in this game long enough to know. Please think about it.

      In any case, it was a pleasure helping you. It is nice to see someone who is so passionate about something that was at one point the center focus of my life.

      Best regards,
      Razvan
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  • Profile picture of the author DrForum
    Originally Posted by Key Seek View Post

    This forum convinced me to get professional help (not THAT kind of help).


    I was mainly looking for SEO and a modest amount of editing. We first sent my website ( My Site - Home ) to a pro (he just finished a job for HP) and he worked out some SEO an other issues. Paid him $150, cheap, yes?


    The link I posted was my old website which is going down soon.


    However, my friend said that the site looked "home made." I think he was too polite to say it looked like it was designed by a mentally challenged person.


    So, we are completely re-doing everything except for my text/content which is, IMO, very good. The site is a relationship and self improvement site, but I am unique. 12 years ago, before I met my wife I was active in the seduction community. There are various stages, the highest being "Pick Up Guru." Mystery and Style were also PUG's and today have their own TV shows and best selling books.


    My wife found my activity where I chronicled the game I ran on her. Thus I stopped participating out of respect for her and the fact that I could risk my college teaching job for trying to help men. I was dating 3 women a week and of course stopped seeing all other women. We are still married and she loves me more than ever. She pays the house and car notes (hers and mine) and is shopping for my dinner right now.


    I apologize for bragging, but I am a master at getting women to love you, and staying in love with you.


    The goal in the seduction community is to raise a woman's IL (interest level) to the point where she will have sex with you. Then you move on to another conquest.


    I am different. My goal is more than a 1 night stand. I have my guys dating 3 women a week until they find the best. The goal is then LT Relationship and ultimately marriage/family.


    Women communicate and keep score differently. And, it never stops. Keeping a woman in love requires daily work. 70% of divorces are filed by women.


    I also base my program on Social Welfare policy, evolutionary psychology, evolutionary biology, rational actor modeling, and 12 step programs.


    I merge the academic paradigms with the seduction material.


    My goal is to make men stronger, inside and out. Towards that end I emphasize Spirituality, Bodybuilding, and Martial arts. I hold many titles in both disciplines.


    Sorry for the ego driven long windedness, but I am very excited about this process. I change lives for the better.


    OK, so, I have my content. I need editing of my martial art videos. My friend has offered to do everything for $1300. There are also fees that come up and I of course pay them. He guarantees 500 unique visitors a day.


    I think that is a pretty good deal. However, should I structure a conversion bonus?


    Say monthly sales. Offer him $1200 base salary, but at $2.5 k give him another $150, and 10% of all sales after that for a 6 month period.


    Sorry for the long post, but please advise.
    If i were in such like situation, I will first be able to have a contract to sign with the person who is working for me. he is just talking and am not well convinced if he will really bring 500 visitors each and every single day through his work. You need to split the cash into milestones and see if this was really true. When you discover that the sales are improving, you will be sure that he is doing a good job. I always believe in seeing rather than being told. Lets get practical here buddy.
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  • Profile picture of the author ibuywireless
    lol i lost track of what the post was about but play on playa lol, your wife is beautiful, I used to be like that in my younger days lol
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    • Profile picture of the author Key Seek
      Thanks....I bet you are still pretty....can you post a pic? He He.


      Picture is 8 years old. She has gained a little weight (15 lbs) but so have I. Her face is still killer. 38 and looks much younger.


      In my case, rounding 50 was Brutal. At 53 it looks like I fell out of the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down.


      I have a huge, hideous, red face that frightens children and small animals.


      I told her yesterday that she should leave me and find a better man, someone in her league. Doing so would make her parents happy too.


      All I asked was for her to keep me on her health insurance






      Originally Posted by ibuywireless View Post

      lol i lost track of what the post was about but play on playa lol, your wife is beautiful, I used to be like that in my younger days lol
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  • Profile picture of the author Regional Warrior
    Well since you have been answering the posts now this does become a follow me thread !
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  • Profile picture of the author marketingfreak
    Banned
    I think this thread shouldn't be there because it fluctuates the moral of a woman... here are many women sitting and you are talking like that... As your thread is of $1300 a good price. you are offering this price for which thing are you offering it for the one night stand or the site.... it's not about just men it's about the women also what they want and with whom they want to stay.. men are already tough enough to handle these kind of situations they need not to be more tougher them women should be tough so that they can handle these types of situations without hesitating.....
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    • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
      Originally Posted by marketingfreak View Post

      I think this thread shouldn't be there because it fluctuates the moral of a woman... here are many women sitting and you are talking like that... As your thread is of $1300 a good price. you are offering this price for which thing are you offering it for the one night stand or the site.... it's not about just men it's about the women also what they want and with whom they want to stay.. men are already tough enough to handle these kind of situations they need not to be more tougher them women should be tough so that they can handle these types of situations without hesitating.....
      I think there might be a language barrier issue here.
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      "May I have ten thousand marbles, please?"

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      • Profile picture of the author Key Seek
        Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

        I think there might be a language barrier issue here.

        Ya think, lol. Definitely ESL.


        I did not want to be overly critical because I am grateful for all the advice I have received.


        Also, my critics were correct about a number of errors I made.


        Having said that, I looked at the finished work of some of the critics on this thread and they torture the English language. Their professional work/copy looks like a hastily thrown together rough draft.


        They were critical of my copy, yet their finished work is rife with subject verb disagreement, syntax errors, sentence structure fails and a long list of grammatical mistakes. On top of that, they made criticisms that illustrated that they did not read and or understand my claims.


        But you know what, they still had valuable criticism.


        When I say content, that means that the substantive argument/thesis is solid. I never even thought of the "copy" concept. I need to do that.


        It was stated that my argument lacked proof. That is not true, BUT it is also my fault. Here is an example why.


        THE MISTAKES I MADE SHOULD BE A STICKY...HERE IS WHY:


        I ran 2 articles simultaneously on my home page. I idea was that readers would start on the left. I did this because I read that wide columns discouraged readers.


        Each article was linked to a second page which contained my sources for my claims.


        It was you, Jill who pointed out that my structure was problematic.


        The result was that I made a bunch of claims on my home page that needed support. The reader would then have to click over to a second page to see that support.


        They did not. The result is that they...I am going to cite Razvan here... claimed that my argument lacked support when in fact it had dozens of academic studies and other real world evidence backing my claims.


        Now the question is, who's fault is that? Is it Razvans' fault?


        No, it is my fault. Raz' did what other readers would do, read the first page and then moved on. He incorrectly assumed that I lacked support for my claims when I in fact did not. BUT it is my fault because I buried the idea on a secondary page.


        He was also correct in that my work came off as self centered.


        So, what is the solution?


        I am going to take all of my argument from the left hand column and the second half and group it together in one article. The same for the right hand piece. I may use a button for each from a home page with just a brief intro/call to action.


        My guy said he did something like that, but I have not seen his finished work.


        I will post it up when I get the chance.


        Again THANK YOU EVERYONE FOR YOUR HELP!!!
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      • Profile picture of the author Shana Walters
        Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

        I think there might be a language barrier issue here.
        I feel it is more than a language barrier.

        Best Regards,
        Shana Jahsinta Walters.
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  • Profile picture of the author Curtis2011
    Originally Posted by Key Seek View Post

    OK, so, I have my content. I need editing of my martial art videos. My friend has offered to do everything for $1300. There are also fees that come up and I of course pay them. He guarantees 500 unique visitors a day.
    Most of your post was not talking about what you are paying to have done.

    What is "everything" for $1300? Just editing videos? Or building a whole new website for you?
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  • Profile picture of the author Shana Walters
    Originally Posted by Key Seek View Post

    The goal in the seduction community is to raise a woman's IL (interest level) to the point where she will have sex with you. Then you move on to another conquest.

    I am different. My goal is more than a 1 night stand. I have my guys dating 3 women a week until they find the best. The goal is then LT Relationship and ultimately marriage/family.
    I have often found it weird that there is all these, "How To Make A Man Fall In You" or "How To Make A Man Marry You" type of products on the market for women.

    Meanwhile for the men is, "How To Seduce A Woman Into Having Sex With You In 30 Minutes Flat" or "How To Control Her Mind And Get Into Her Bed Tonight".

    I'm just making up names here people. But I say to myself this is probably why so many marriages are ending in divorce. It's obvious men and women want different things. Now I can understand why that book, "Men Are From Mars And Women Are From Venus" is still a hot seller today.

    I intend to do a blog post about this in future about this type of divide between men and women.

    Best Regards,
    Shana Jahsinta Walters.
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  • Profile picture of the author Shana Walters
    Originally Posted by Key Seek View Post

    The goal in the seduction community is to raise a woman's IL (interest level) to the point where she will have sex with you. Then you move on to another conquest.
    And then women are trying to raise a man's level of interest so he will stay with her forever. Settle down with her. Marry her. Have children with her. Start a business with her. Or whatever the hell she wants from this guy.

    Meanwhile his eyes is already searching for the nest one.

    This is huge problem.

    Best Regards,
    Shana Jahsinta Walters.
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  • Profile picture of the author Shana Walters
    Originally Posted by Key Seek View Post

    I am different. My goal is more than a 1 night stand. I have my guys dating 3 women a week until they find the best. The goal is then LT Relationship and ultimately marriage/family.
    Happy to hear you are teaching more than just mere seduction. God knows there is more than a swamp of information like that out on the market already.

    I do want to see more programs teaching women that it's fine to date more than one guy at a time. And I'm not referring to S-E-X. For me the two don't go hand in hand. But some women are scared to do it for fear of being called names like slut.

    And that's why they make bad choices when it comes to picking men. Some are so lonely that they latch on to the first guy that swings their way.

    Best Regards,
    Shana Jahsinta Walters.
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  • Profile picture of the author Shana Walters
    Originally Posted by Key Seek View Post

    Women communicate and keep score differently. And, it never stops. Keeping a woman in love requires daily work. 70% of divorces are filed by women.
    I applaud you sir. I'm just glad a man said. Maybe now other men will be willing to listen.

    I recall there is a Wallace D. Wattles book that I can't remember the name of. There is a chapter called "Winning Love". He states clearly that is a wife falls out of loving here husband, then it is the husbands fault. Why? Because he has to keep working at winning her love day in and day out. He can't ever stop. And that right there is "The Secret". He is also the author of The Science Of Getting Rich in case anyone is curious about who he is.

    But I have to admit I had no idea that more women were filing for divorce more than the men.

    Best Regards,
    Shana Jahsinta Walters.
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  • Profile picture of the author Key Seek
    Hi Shana,


    I discuss these exact issues on my web site. It is too dry for most readers on the net, but I unpack these issues.


    My site is about to publish the over haul, however, if you can hang with a dryer academic type of writing, read what is there right now. Terrible for marketing, but gold if you want to really understand what is going on.


    For example, you site John Grey (Mars/Venus book) he has one (only one) good point. That point is that men and women have completely different communication styles. I use this theory.


    However, the rest of his book is crap. You will find that in all the academic literature on why people date, fall in love, marry, divorce there is nothing that will actually help you.


    Marriage counseling can help communication. but it will not help to keep a woman in love. There is very little out there that will produce tangible results that can be implemented to keep a women in love. The academic world will eviscerate someone who makes arguments like mine.


    I do value academic work in evolutionary biology/psychology because it explains why people feel the way they do. While my guys are not looking to date and dump like other seductionists, the community is bang on in their view that there are certain things that cause women to become interested in man, the preliminary stages of love.


    My purpose is to teach men how to do these things.


    I have been counseling a martial arts student of mine. Real nice guy, computer hardware guy, smart.


    He was dating this gal for 3 months with no sex. Yet he considers her his girlfriend.


    She is also going away to school in 8 months.


    I told him "she loves you so much, that she is moving 800 miles away."


    He texts back and forth every day and sees her on the weekend (a no no until she is in love with you). I told him "girl friends text back and forth, not men unless you want to be her g/friend."


    Stop it. The phone is for one, and only one reason: Making dates. I still do this with my wife, I only call/texts if she calls/text's me. I do, however give her 100% attention when she comes home and wants to discuss "her day" but not on the phone.


    When she texts you, be a gentleman, but respond that you are busy. Eventually she will understand that if she wants to talk to you she has to see you.


    Start cutting your dates short. Stop being so available.


    He should not be seeing her on the weekend, but it is too late for that.


    I also coached him on 2 steps forward one step back (a technique to get sex).


    Lo and behold, last week they had sex. Also, she is reconsidering moving away, she is looking for a school in the area.


    Back to the academic literature: Barbara Dafoe Whithead was originally a feminist, but her first major study (unintentionally) illustrated how feminists have poisoned the world for young women. People flipped. Had she not made it on Opra Winfries' best book list her career would have been scuttled. I like her stuff a lot, but there are not many like her.
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    • Profile picture of the author CaRTmAnBrAh
      Originally Posted by Key Seek View Post

      I also coached him on 2 steps forward one step back (a technique to get sex).
      Is this when you say...

      Your hair is lovely baby and you smell amazing, sadly your face looks like a rubber glove.

      If so I use that all the time. Who knew.
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      • Profile picture of the author Key Seek
        Originally Posted by CaRTmAnBrAh View Post

        Is this when you say...

        Your hair is lovely baby and you smell amazing, sadly your face looks like a rubber glove.

        If so I use that all the time. Who knew.

        No, that is a neg (negative comment meant to drive her worth lower and subsequently your worth is relatively higher). Actually, what you said is a straight up insult.


        I do not advocate a lot of negging, as you need to know what you are doing and the risk to gain ratio is often not worth it, IMO. I prefer to just concentrate on increasing YOUR value without insulting her. However, with very pretty women sometimes you do need a very conservative neg wrapped in a complement. "Your hair is lovely baby and you smell amazing, but that cut does not really fit your pretty face."


        I was talking to a pretty black gal the other day. She had straightened her hair and dyed it blond. I told her "your face is gorgeous and I love your long straight hair, but can you dye it back to black? I want it so black it looks blue."


        I do tease women constantly, but it is usually just good hearted fun. For example, My wife uses her hands a lot when she talks (she is half Spanish) After listening, I will copy her gesticulation with exaggerated movement. If she does something dumb I will say "just you stay pretty baby."


        If you are trying to escalate to sex and are getting some resistance, that is when you use 1 back 2 forward.


        Remember, I am different than other seductionists. I am ultimately looking for a relationship with a high quality women. They want to meet and have sex as soon as possible/rinse repeat. I prefer to not have intercourse until the 3rd date. French kissing passionately with some petting is all I wan't/advocate on a first date.


        By the third date the woman often pushes for the sex, hence no need for any fancy techniques.


        By not focusing on sex, you get sex, it is a Zen thing.
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        • Profile picture of the author Shana Walters
          Originally Posted by Key Seek View Post

          By the third date the woman often pushes for the sex, hence no need for any fancy techniques.
          Really now?
          And why would she be the one pushing for the sex.
          I'm curious.

          Best Regards,
          Shana Jahsinta Walters.
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          • Profile picture of the author Key Seek
            Originally Posted by Shana Walters View Post

            Really now?
            And why would she be the one pushing for the sex.
            I'm curious.

            Best Regards,
            Shana Jahsinta Walters.

            Because she likes you. Because you do not spam her with texts or phone calls.


            Because you have been a gentleman not trying to get into her pants on the first date.

            Because you do not make a stupid mistake and throw a red flag. You are fun and funny, you go on action dates. you keep dates short.


            You wait 3-4 days to call and when you call you make the date and get off the phone.


            Because you follow my coaching and thus behave in a way that makes her like you more, not less.

            Shana, my guys DON"T cheat and they don't lie! Inn fact I am strongly against the type of behavior you are talking about. I create better men, the kind you want in your life, the kind you deserve.

            I could write more but my wife wants me to watch Trainwreck with her.
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            • Profile picture of the author CaRTmAnBrAh
              Originally Posted by Key Seek View Post

              Shana, my guys DON"T cheat and they don't lie! In fact I am strongly against the type of behavior you are talking about. I create better men, the kind you want in your life, the kind you deserve. I could write more but my wife wants me to watch Trainwreck with her.
              I don't want to sound harsh brah, but it's for your own good... maybe you're not best placed to be handing out advice on being a playa like me anymore. You've got a wife now, she's just ORDERED you off the internet. And it gets worse... Don't cheat? Don't lie? Better men, the kind you deserve? I hate to be the one to break it to you dude, but it's over, you'll be handing out instructions on how to do the laundry next. Time to pass the baton on to the new blood pick up guru master. You get me.
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              • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                Could we please not turn the WF into a hookup or dating site.

                Total strangers discussing sex on an internet marketing forum...yeah, that works.
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                • Profile picture of the author Key Seek
                  Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                  Could we please not turn the WF into a hookup or dating site.

                  Total strangers discussing sex on an internet marketing forum...yeah, that works.


                  Kay,


                  These are content driven debates integral to building a web site. If we started limiting the subject matter of our web sites we eventually would have nothing to discuss.


                  Now if we started discussing graphic sexual details then yes, some censorship would be needed, but we don't.


                  Furthermore, my position of the issue is to avoid pursuing sex on the first 2 dates.


                  Kissing is OK.


                  BTW, at least you read my material before you post. You are OK in my book. Then again, my book is pretty %$cked up
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              • Profile picture of the author Key Seek
                Originally Posted by CaRTmAnBrAh View Post

                I don't want to sound harsh brah, but it's for your own good... maybe you're not best placed to be handing out advice on being a playa like me anymore. You've got a wife now, she's just ORDERED you off the internet. And it gets worse... Don't cheat? Don't lie? Better men, the kind you deserve? I hate to be the one to break it to you dude, but it's over, you'll be handing out instructions on how to do the laundry next. Time to pass the baton on to the new blood pick up guru master. You get me.

                There are so many galactic reading comprehension errors here, and in such a short paragraph. You do not "get me," or even come remotely close to understanding what I am doing.

                First if you actually paid attention to what I have written you would know that I am not teaching anyone to be a "player" or a "pick up master."

                I constantly make clear that the ultimate goal is not to sleep with as many women as possible. The goal is to find one high quality women for a LTR/marriage. You date many and yes, have sex with many, because that is what it takes to find the one. Mastering the "pick up" is an ends to a mean, not the end itself.

                I point this fact out on the first page and emphasize it more than a dozen times. How could you possibly miss such a fundamental principle?

                Second: The issue of my wife and my activity on the seduction forums happened 10 YEARS AGO! I make this point clear repeatedly. Again, reading comprehension.

                Furthermore, my wife did not "order me" off the internet. It was a decision I made out of respect for her. Again, I explain repeatedly that once you agree to not date any other women, that is when you do this sort of thing. It is a crucial part of my system.

                The first month is mid week dating, seeing her once a week along with the other women you are dating. If you don't make any mistakes, she will start pushing for exclusivity around weeks 5-8. At the 8 week point you must decide to, A commit and stop seeing other people, or two, end the relationship because you realize she is not LTR material.

                You never lie, you never cheat.

                Finally, DO NOT DATE A WOMAN WHO ORDERS YOU TO DO THINGS!!! There are so many problems with doing so!

                You say you are a "player" yet you think it is OK to take orders from your partner? We have a name for men who "order" their woman around: Abusers. An obsession with control is the hallmark of an abusive relationship.

                Relationships are built upon respect. and it runs both ways. I never "order" my wife to do anything, and she never "orders" me.

                Your are talking about extremely controlling behavior. You CANNOT control your wife! Your wife CANNOT control you!

                Relationships based upon control NEVER WORK! Relationships must be founded on love and respect.
                For example, my wife stopped working out. She is restricting her calories and won't go back to the gym. I wish she would get back in the gym. I wish she would let me train her again. But you know what? She is going to do what she wants, and I can either accept or not.

                A better man, a high value man knows he cannot control a women. I say this over and over again. There is only one thing a man can control, and that is his OWN behavior. There is only one thing a man can do to keep a woman, and that is keeping her in love with him.
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                • Profile picture of the author CaRTmAnBrAh
                  Originally Posted by Key Seek View Post

                  There are so many galactic reading comprehension errors here, and in such a short paragraph.
                  Bit rude.

                  I constantly make clear that the ultimate goal is not to sleep with as many women as possible.
                  WHAT? What sort of pick up artist player ninja sensei are you?

                  The goal is to find one high quality women for a LTR/marriage.
                  WHAT? Are you trying to be funny? this is not funny!

                  because that is what it takes to find the one.
                  This is going from bad to worse.

                  Furthermore, my wife did not "order me" off the internet.
                  She did a bit. Come on.

                  It was a decision I made out of respect for her.
                  Alright player, I believe you.

                  It is a crucial part of my system.
                  Not having a go or anything but it seems to me like a crucial part of your system is allowing your life to be dictated to by the old ball and chain. All I'm hearing is, "not sleeping with lots of women", "the one", marriage, being ordered off the internet. Could it be that you need this outside viewpoint to see more clearly. I'm here to help.

                  You never lie, you never cheat.
                  Please stop! That is literally the opposite to my playa manifesto.

                  Finally, DO NOT DATE A WOMAN WHO ORDERS YOU TO DO THINGS!!! There are so many problems with doing so!
                  You really don't see it do you? You need a fresh pair of eyes on this, it's a good job I'm here.

                  You say you are a "player" yet you think it is OK to take orders from your partner?
                  err, I'm not sure you're following this too well.

                  I never "order" my wife to do anything.
                  You're not supposed to have a blinking wife! Not if you're a playa brah!

                  You CANNOT control your wife! Your wife CANNOT control you!
                  HELLO... I don't want a wife. BECAUSE I'M A PLAYA!

                  My wife stopped working out. and won't go back to the gym. I wish she would get back in the gym. I wish she would let me train her again. But you know what? She is going to do what she wants, and I can either accept or not.
                  oh brah, it's begun. You can ONLY accept it. This time next year she's going to be 250LBS. This is why you shouldn't have gotten married. She put on her A game to trap you, now look. The irony eh. Looks like this playa got played. I almost want to have a minutes silence. It's like watching the captain solemnly going down with his ship. I can't watch. Bad luck brah.

                  There is only one thing a man can do to keep a woman, and that is keeping her in love with him. That's it. You get me?
                  I don't get you at all. I am however worried for you. You had it all and just threw it away. And you're going to pay a BIG financial price for that mistake down the line when she instigates divorce proceedings..

                  Good luck playa.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Key Seek
                    Sigh,


                    I am not going to write another lengthy response. You have not processed a word of what I am promulgating.


                    You: "WHAT? What sort of pick up artist player ninja sensei are you?"


                    I am not a pick up artist or ninja sensei.


                    I looked at another thread and all you post are statements illustrating you have not read or understood anything.


                    Stop embarrassing yourself.


                    I am done feeding the Troll.












                    Originally Posted by CaRTmAnBrAh View Post

                    Bit rude.



                    WHAT? What sort of pick up artist player ninja sensei are you?



                    WHAT? Are you trying to be funny? this is not funny!



                    This is going from bad to worse.



                    She did a bit. Come on.



                    Alright player, I believe you.



                    Not having a go or anything but it seems to me like a crucial part of your system is allowing your life to be dictated to by the old ball and chain. All I'm hearing is, "not sleeping with lots of women", "the one", marriage, being ordered off the internet. Could it be that you need this outside viewpoint to see more clearly. I'm here to help.



                    Please stop! That is literally the opposite to my playa manifesto.



                    You really don't see it do you? You need a fresh pair of eyes on this, it's a good job I'm here.



                    err, I'm not sure you're following this too well.



                    You're not supposed to have a blinking wife! Not if you're a playa brah!



                    HELLO... I don't want a wife. BECAUSE I'M A PLAYA!



                    oh brah, it's begun. You can ONLY accept it. This time next year she's going to be 250LBS. This is why you shouldn't have gotten married. She put on her A game to trap you, now look. The irony eh. Looks like this playa got played. I almost want to have a minutes silence. It's like watching the captain solemnly going down with his ship. I can't watch. Bad luck brah.



                    I don't get you at all. I am however worried for you. You had it all and just threw it away. And you're going to pay a BIG financial price for that mistake down the line when she instigates divorce proceedings..

                    Good luck playa.
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                    • Profile picture of the author CaRTmAnBrAh
                      Originally Posted by Key Seek View Post

                      I am done feeding the Troll.
                      Unfair. I have put across some very valid points. Just because you don't like my responses doesn't make me a troll. You should read some of my earlier posts on the forum. You might learn a thing or two.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Key Seek
                        Originally Posted by CaRTmAnBrAh View Post

                        Unfair. I have put across some very valid points. Just because you don't like my responses doesn't make me a troll. You should read some of my earlier posts on the forum. You might learn a thing or two.

                        In fact, yes, I have learned something: The mods here are skilled with proper use of the ban hammer. Since you are gone I will respond.


                        Let us turn to the issue of age. There is a formula, some say it is of French origins, others say Middle East. You can date a younger woman, but no younger than half plus 7.


                        For example, you (the man) are 40. Half of 40 is 20, plus 7. The youngest you can date is 27, younger and you are creepy. The maximum age difference, IMO, is 17 years.


                        More and you are a full generation older.


                        I am 53, and my wife is 38. Already we have very different generational touchstones.


                        I like music made by humans, my wife likes music made by machines that is so over processed that every vestige of soul is removed.


                        Led Zeppelin came on the radio the other day. I asked my wife "do you know who this band is? I will give you a hint, they are the greatest band of all time." She said..."Oh I don't know, the Beatles." I replied "just you stay pretty, LOL."


                        She gets the joke and playfully hit me on the shoulder.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Kay King
                          Since you are gone I will respond.
                          Easy when someone can't reply.... Don't let people push your buttons...once they know they can, they don't stop.

                          my position of the issue is to avoid pursuing sex on the first 2 dates.

                          That's my point - call me crazy but I have no interest in sexual position issues of members (sic) here....

                          Just saying....
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                          Saving one dog will not change the world - but the world changes forever for that one dog
                          ***
                          One secret to happiness is to let every situation be
                          what it is instead of what you think it should be.
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                          • Profile picture of the author Key Seek
                            Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

                            ...call me crazy but I have no interest in sexual position issues of members (sic) here....

                            Just saying....


                            Kay: I don't think you understand what a sexual position is. It is NOT the avoidance of sex. I would prefer not to discuss sexual positions like missionary and reverse cowgirl, but you have forced my hand.
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                        • Profile picture of the author Shana Walters
                          Originally Posted by Key Seek View Post

                          Led Zeppelin came on the radio the other day. I asked my wife "do you know who this band is? I will give you a hint, they are the greatest band of all time." She said..."Oh I don't know, the Beatles." I replied "just you stay pretty, LOL."
                          She gets the joke and playfully hit me on the shoulder.
                          I love the playful banter you have going on with your wife.
                          My interest in music is very close to zero minus a few artists.
                          With a Google search, I have no idea who you are talking about either.

                          Best Regards,
                          Shana Jahsinta Walters.
                          Signature
                          Write until my fingers fall off. LOL!!!
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                          • Profile picture of the author Key Seek
                            Thank you, Shana. You have to keep it light and fun.


                            And here you go, the greatest band ever:



                            Originally Posted by Shana Walters View Post

                            I love the playful banter you have going on with your wife.
                            My interest in music is very close to zero minus a few artists.
                            With a Google search, I have no idea who you are talking about either.

                            Best Regards,
                            Shana Jahsinta Walters.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Shana Walters
                    Originally Posted by CaRTmAnBrAh View Post

                    This time next year she's going to be 250LBS.
                    Let me get this straight playa, a woman is not a woman in your eyes as long as she weights 250lbs or more.
                    Correct me if I'm wrong cause I'm just curious.

                    Best Regards,
                    Shana Jahsinta Walters.
                    Signature
                    Write until my fingers fall off. LOL!!!
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                    • Profile picture of the author CaRTmAnBrAh
                      Originally Posted by Shana Walters View Post

                      Let me get this straight playa, a woman is not a woman in your eyes as long as she weights 250lbs or more.Correct me if I'm wrong cause I'm just curious.
                      I'm happy to correct you Shana.

                      Direct me if you will to where I said that a woman is not a woman as long as she weighs 250lbs or more. I'm just curious?

                      Of course I'm not really curious as I know I didn't say that. You just made it up in your mind didn't you honey. You gals do like to do that don't you.

                      I'm only responding here because you've asked me a direct question. Remember, you asked!

                      So, for me, if a woman is over 120LBS and not between the ages of 21-29, I will not desire her physically, Those are MY standards. I simply wouldn't waste my time dating any woman outside of those specs. No man of means and options ever would given the choice. Lets keep this real yeah.

                      I'm sure women over 29 and over 120lbs are lovely people, I just don't want to see them naked. You get me.

                      Moreover, it becomes even more important on a professional level, say I'm taking a date to a business dinner where clients will see who I'm "with". It would be seriously bad for business if I were to turn up with a truck on my arm.

                      Men judge other men by the quality of women in their beds. There's no getting around that. And to be honest, it's a very good measure of a man's success. The hotter the woman, the more successful the man. It is what it is.

                      It is not possible for a woman over 29 or 120LBS to be hot. She might be nice, she might be pleasant, but NOT hot. and I want HOT!

                      I hope that's answered your question. I'm here to help.
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                      • Profile picture of the author Shana Walters
                        Playa you just told me that I'm making things up in my own mind, but then proceed to valid that I haven't.
                        Oh my goodness this is much worst that I initially thought.
                        I would say more but I'm keeping it to myself.
                        I do suggest you go back and re-read what you posted to me.
                        Becuase Playa ...
                        Wow, I may just have to do a blog post about this one in the New Year.

                        Best Regards,
                        Shana Jahsinta Walters.

                        Signature
                        Write until my fingers fall off. LOL!!!
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  • Profile picture of the author getfreetheme
    Yikes! That is totally off. Leave Weebly now and start WordPress.

    For the price:
    $1,300 for a remake is a bit high. Even the $1,200 base + bonuses on sales is also high.

    Let me do the project and I'll do it $899 base + bonuses on sales. Even reduce the share to 5% would still be good for me.
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    • Profile picture of the author Key Seek
      Originally Posted by getfreetheme View Post

      Yikes! That is totally off. Leave Weebly now and start WordPress.

      For the price:
      $1,300 for a remake is a bit high. Even the $1,200 base + bonuses on sales is also high.

      Let me do the project and I'll do it $899 base + bonuses on sales. Even reduce the share to 5% would still be good for me.




      I might take you up on that in the future. I am trading some of my services (teaching him boxing and knife fighting) and am charging my standard rate, $45 an hour.


      He does not get a percentage of sales and also guarantees the hits.


      This program has so much potential. I may take people on, but for a % of sales.
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  • Profile picture of the author Key Seek
    Also: THANK YOU VERY MUCH TO EVERYONE WHO HELPED!
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  • Profile picture of the author greatness008
    Keep playin' player. There's big money in seduction and a lot of lonely guys lol. Luckily, my girl is a handful for me. She would probably kill me if she saw me on a seduction site though haha. But, there are plenty of single guys who are willing to pay an arm and a leg to be close to a female's arms and legs. Yeahhhh
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    • Profile picture of the author Key Seek
      Originally Posted by greatness008 View Post

      Keep playin' player. There's big money in seduction and a lot of lonely guys lol. Luckily, my girl is a handful for me. She would probably kill me if she saw me on a seduction site though haha. But, there are plenty of single guys who are willing to pay an arm and a leg to be close to a female's arms and legs. Yeahhhh




      Actually, if she has high interest it will probably INCREASE her interest. If she found you coaching other men, and recognized that you used the techniques on her she will understand that you can get women anytime/anywhere.


      As long as you are not cheating, you are fine. My wife found my posts 4 months into our relationship, and yes, at that point you have to stop posting. We were `100% exclusive at that point and I have never been with another women since.
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  • Profile picture of the author swissrun
    Well, to be honest ... 99% of the people thinking that they setup a website like yours and get rich, never make a dime with it. The times have changed. Today it's all about "Squeeze Pages" and intensive "Email Marketing".
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    • Profile picture of the author Key Seek
      I never gave much thought to making money until recently. It was to be a book.




      Originally Posted by swissrun View Post

      Well, to be honest ... 99% of the people thinking that they setup a website like yours and get rich, never make a dime with it. The times have changed. Today it's all about "Squeeze Pages" and intensive "Email Marketing".
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  • Profile picture of the author TrafficFlow
    Before all the work is done to create the videos I suggest you hire someone to create a short intro video that has your logo on it. This will brand your videos and distinguish them as YOUR videos.

    If you need help on this please PM me.
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  • Profile picture of the author Andrew Fox
    I usually abscond from pick up stratagem threads because they make my blood boil. If you want to have the ride of your life try something striking different to the likes of being a mesmerist. That should make your pupils dilate and glow.
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    I love getting in trance just by hearing you talk
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