The HYPOCRISY of some marketers!

by Raydal
37 replies
One of the first things I do when assessing the marketing message of a
company is to determine if they are using their own marketing tools
that they are pimping to me.

I mean, it would be weird if I want to write your sales letter but hired
John Carlton to write the copy used to sell you on hiring me.

It would be weird if you are selling a graphic design service but you
hired another graphic designer to design your site.

I was just at the site of a company selling a video sales letter creation
tool, yet they do NOT use their own tool for their video sale letter.
I wonder why?

-Ray Edwards
#hypocrisy #marketers
  • Profile picture of the author sahi
    I've seen this thing happen many times and recently came across couple of guys promoting video creation and editing tool but in the videos they were using some other tool, this thing seriously undermines trust on products being promoted this way.
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve B
    Yes, it may seem weird at the time, but you really never know the particular circumstances behind "the why" someone chooses a particular tool or method. Sometimes there are extenuating circumstances that you would never guess that really are legitimate once you know the details.

    I once did some work for a company that was a direct competitor of mine. One of my customers asked me why I would do that - it seemed really odd.

    The reason I did work for that company (that no one ever knew) was because I had time left on a year's contract that I was fulfilling and I felt I owed it to them to complete the contract terms even though I was sort of competing against myself.

    So you never really know the motivation behind someone's choices.

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author fin
      It's called building a business.

      Someone who owns a building company isn't an expert in plumbing, electricity, carpentry, plastering, etc.

      I enjoy your posts, but think you're well off on this one.

      A marketer is really just a marketer/salesman and they can hire the help.
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  • Profile picture of the author AmericanMuscleTA
    Just some people out to make a quick buck.


    But, I'm sure most people aren't as smart as you, and don't even think about companies using their own products.
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    • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
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      • Profile picture of the author Raydal
        Originally Posted by Steve B View Post

        I once did some work for a company that was a direct competitor of mine.
        Steve
        This is close but NOT the same. It is not a matter of working for a competitor
        such that you are a writer and you write for someone else. But if you made a claim
        that you are the best writer in a ghost-written book.

        Originally Posted by fin View Post

        It's called building a business.

        Someone who owns a building company isn't an expert in plumbing, electricity, carpentry, plastering, etc.

        I enjoy your posts, but think you're well off on this one.

        A marketer is really just a marketer/salesman and they can hire the help.
        Again, NOT the same. It would be if you are a builder, but showed me your
        portfolio with buildings made by other builders.

        -Ray Edwards
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        • Profile picture of the author professorrosado
          Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

          This is close but NOT the same. It is not a matter of working for a competitor
          such that you are a writer and you write for someone else. But if you made a claim
          that you are the best writer in a ghost-written book.



          Again, NOT the same. It would be if you are a builder, but showed me your
          portfolio with buildings made by other builders.

          -Ray Edwards
          But Ray, this has been done for eons! Even before the Internet, many books were and still are ghostwritten. Standard fare in the publishing industry.

          The bottom line is the marketing (selling). There is arbitrage as well - an old pre-Internet business model. If seller A puts together a better deal (if even just the presentation) than seller B, the bottom line is that seller A will make more money and outsource the fulfillment entirely.

          Other than lying if stating that "I created this software" when you have not for example, I see nothing wrong with putting tools together in a new way and claiming "ownership" of the system.

          Also, white label was invented for this very purpose. Thousands of companies sell millions of products which are "white-label". Doesn't make the wholesaler (pseudo-manufacturer) deceitful or dishonest.
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          • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
            Many affiliates promote products they haven't seen or used.
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            • Profile picture of the author [Justin]
              Originally Posted by Daniel Evans View Post

              Many affiliates promote products they haven't seen or used.
              What he's saying though would be more like an affiliate teaching how to be a successful affiliate marketer, but their business model is completely different than what they're teaching.
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            • Profile picture of the author discrat
              Originally Posted by Daniel Evans View Post

              Many affiliates promote products they haven't seen or used.
              I can personally attest to this. There are a certain few Marketers who have a track record of proven, quality products that convert.

              Consequently, a few of their products I promoted without seeing them based on this Trust and confidence I have in them


              - Robert Andrew
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            • Profile picture of the author Brent Stangel
              Originally Posted by Daniel Evans View Post

              Many affiliates promote products they haven't seen or used.
              Perfectly acceptable as long as they don't claim they have.

              I had a site that sold around 50 different MMORPG guides. I've never played an MMORPG, but I sold a bunch of guides. I stated up front that I wasn't a gamer. No one cared.
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              • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
                Originally Posted by Brent Stangel View Post

                Perfectly acceptable as long as they don't claim they have.

                I had a site that sold around 50 different MMORPG guides. I've never played an MMORPG, but I sold a bunch of guides. I stated up front that I wasn't a gamer. No one cared.
                Subjective then, you'll agree, to personal opinion, product type, audience, method of marketing and form of presentation.

                My opinion is that; if you don't know the entirety of what you are selling, you aren't selling optimally.

                Daniel
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  • Profile picture of the author @tjr
    Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

    I was just at the site of a company selling a video sales letter creation
    tool, yet they do NOT use their own tool for their video sale letter.
    I wonder why?
    There's a chance that there are proprietary techniques or new technology that they're using and don't want revealed to non-customers (or reverse engineered too early by the competition).

    Just one of many possibilities, although you are raising the right question here.
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    • Profile picture of the author Joan Altz
      Originally Posted by @tjr View Post

      There's a chance that there are proprietary techniques or new technology that they're using and don't want revealed to non-customers (or reverse engineered too early by the competition).
      Good point, because this is definitely a dog-eat-dog business, and I've seen several tools come out that were reverse engineered, and quickly.
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  • Profile picture of the author fin
    It is the same, but you can't see it.

    Why would someone with a web design business build the site themselves when they could be growing their company? And would it make any difference if the designers were the ones working on the client sites anyway?

    You're saying someone with a sales company should do their own outreach to prove they can sell things.

    Doesn't make sense.
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    • Profile picture of the author Raydal
      Originally Posted by fin View Post

      You're saying someone with a sales company should do their own outreach to prove they can sell things.
      Doesn't make sense.
      That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that if you claim to be the BEST sales
      company it would be hypocritical to hire another sales company to sell your
      message that you are the best sales company.

      It's like Apple using PC's to demonstrate their cutting edge products.

      -Ray Edwards
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      • Profile picture of the author fin
        Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

        That's not what I'm saying. I'm saying that if you claim to be the BEST sales
        company it would be hypocritical to hire another sales company to sell your
        message that you are the best sales company.

        It's like Apple using PC's to demonstrate their cutting edge products.

        -Ray Edwards
        Ok, I still don't agree with you, but I do understand where you're coming from.

        It's just schematics.

        If a white label some SEO service, am I still technically the best SEO company because they're doing the work?

        You say no, which is cool.

        I guess you could say the same about those white labeling physical products too.
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        • Profile picture of the author essmeier
          If you white label an SEO service, I'm going to check your site in the SERPs to see if you rank for "SEO service."

          Charlie
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          • Profile picture of the author [Justin]
            For some stuff they know that there's better design than what they offer so they use it for their site, but what they have to sell is still useful for people who don't want to spend the extra money, or take the extra time to learn how to do things at a higher level.

            So these guys don't think their own product is good enough for their site, but they know that there's people out there that would still want and benefit from what they have to offer.
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            • Profile picture of the author Raydal
              Originally Posted by [Justin] View Post

              For some stuff they know that there's better design than what they offer so they use it for their site, but what they have to sell is still useful for people who don't want to spend the extra money, or take the extra time to learn how to do things at a higher level.

              So these guys don't think their own product is good enough for their site, but they know that there's people out there that would still want and benefit from what they have to offer.
              And there is nothing wrong with this approach, BUT just don't claim that
              you are the best designer.

              I can offer to build your house which may not be as good as my house that
              I paid a better builder to construct. It's just that I shouldn't claim that I am the
              best builder at the same time.

              -Ray Edwards
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              • Profile picture of the author [Justin]
                Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

                And there is nothing wrong with this approach, BUT just don't claim that
                you are the best designer.

                I can offer to build your house which may not be as good as my house that
                I paid a better builder to construct. It's just that I shouldn't claim that I am the
                best builder at the same time.

                -Ray Edwards
                Oh I see what you're saying. Yea that's messed up, there's a lot of shady people in IM though.
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                • Profile picture of the author Jill Carpenter
                  Originally Posted by Raydal View Post


                  I mean, it would be weird if I want to write your sales letter but hired
                  John Carlton to write the copy used to sell you on hiring me.


                  Not necessarily.

                  It's like a hairdresser trying to cut their own hair sometimes. Doesn't really work. They need someone else with a different perspective.

                  I wouldn't use anything as a blanket rule.
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                  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
                    Originally Posted by Jill Carpenter View Post

                    Not necessarily.

                    It's like a hairdresser trying to cut their own hair sometimes. Doesn't really work. They need someone else with a different perspective.

                    I wouldn't use anything as a blanket rule.
                    Using a hairdresser is not a good example in this case, because it's obvious
                    that there are some things you can't ideally do for yourself. Even if you are
                    the best brain surgeon you need another surgeon to operate on your brain.
                    But if you made surgical tools as a surgeon and don't use them, then that's
                    another story.

                    Originally Posted by brutecky View Post

                    There are times when its totally acceptable for someone not to use their own product, here is an example: One of the software products I sell is a drag and drop page builder, so people can make sales pages, squeeze pages, bonus pages etc. But I dont use it. Sounds like I might be a hypocrite right? Not exactly, because my software is intended for people who cant code, its not intended to be a substitution for a highly skilled developer. Its intended to be a viable alternative for people who cant or dont want to hire a developer. I on the other hand am a developer so I can code my pages myself and dont need to use my own tool, which is for people who cant code pages (or hire someone to do it for them)
                    And this makes perfect sense because it is obvious in your marketing that you
                    are catering to people who are not as skilled as you. So I would expect that
                    you will let them know that if they wanted more power they would get your
                    customized services (as an upsell).

                    So you will not tell them in your marketing that this is the best way to design
                    websites, but easiest for a non-coder.

                    -Ray Edwards
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          • Profile picture of the author fin
            Originally Posted by essmeier View Post

            If you white label an SEO service, I'm going to check your site in the SERPs to see if you rank for "SEO service."

            Charlie
            Doesn't make any sense.

            You don't advertise the fact you're white labeling a product, so your comment is wrong,
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  • Profile picture of the author Joan Altz
    I can't remember his last name and don't want to post it here anyhow, but a marketer named Val reverse engineered maybe a dozen product tools being sold on ClickBank and then renamed them and launched them as his own products on JVZoo. Made a lot of sales too.

    Thomas Witek (Click Jacker creator) also knows who I'm talking about and spoke out about it himself.

    Reverse engineering in IM is a real threat. Not saying this is the reason for the VSL tool creator not using his own tool, but it could be.
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  • Profile picture of the author Sheakamp
    If you claim to be the best at what you're doing, you should be able to back it with your own product or service. There may be a few exceptions (white label, distributors). I would guess that it just goes down to what field.

    In this case with marketing tools, it would strike me as a warning sign if they aren't utilizing their own products.
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    • Profile picture of the author ajbarnes777
      I run an offline business (mobile auto detailing). It would look absolutely pathetic and embarrassing if I took my truck with my business name lettered all over it to another detail shop... or even the car wash.

      I agree that if you are going to sell something... you should be using it or doing it.

      That being said, there are certain circumstances where this could be understood... such as those selling some type of "system", "strategy", etc. as it applies to an online business (to avoid reverse engineering), or a doctor that owns a medical practice needing emergency medical attention... just imagine... ("oh BLEEP... I've been shot... let me lay here and poke these 5 bullets out of me!")... unless of course you're Chuck Norris.
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  • Profile picture of the author Randall Magwood
    People do it all the time. Let's be honest. They probably *know* their video software is good, but if sales are high with their current pitch and current software.... why change it? Especially when the product is the "real deal"?
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  • Profile picture of the author DrForum
    Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

    One of the first things I do when assessing the marketing message of a
    company is to determine if they are using their own marketing tools
    that they are pimping to me.

    I mean, it would be weird if I want to write your sales letter but hired
    John Carlton to write the copy used to sell you on hiring me.

    It would be weird if you are selling a graphic design service but you
    hired another graphic designer to design your site.

    I was just at the site of a company selling a video sales letter creation
    tool, yet they do NOT use their own tool for their video sale letter.
    I wonder why?

    -Ray Edwards
    Sometimes this happens whenit is within a company setting where the head is given a project and he or she is able to distribute it among the team. Doing that to me is not bad since he has many projects and has provided employment for other people. On the other hand, the people who acts as middle mean are the ones spoiling the whole thing. They may not even have a clue of what happens. They just want to get commission based income and move on. It happens.
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  • Profile picture of the author brutecky
    There are times when its totally acceptable for someone not to use their own product, here is an example: One of the software products I sell is a drag and drop page builder, so people can make sales pages, squeeze pages, bonus pages etc. But I dont use it. Sounds like I might be a hypocrite right? Not exactly, because my software is intended for people who cant code, its not intended to be a substitution for a highly skilled developer. Its intended to be a viable alternative for people who cant or dont want to hire a developer. I on the other hand am a developer so I can code my pages myself and dont need to use my own tool, which is for people who cant code pages (or hire someone to do it for them)
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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
    Originally Posted by Raydal View Post

    One of the first things I do when assessing the marketing message of a
    company is to determine if they are using their own marketing tools
    that they are pimping to me.

    I mean, it would be weird if I want to write your sales letter but hired
    John Carlton to write the copy used to sell you on hiring me.

    It would be weird if you are selling a graphic design service but you
    hired another graphic designer to design your site.

    I was just at the site of a company selling a video sales letter creation
    tool, yet they do NOT use their own tool for their video sale letter.
    I wonder why?

    -Ray Edwards
    Many graphic designers hire other people to do their branding.

    The reason is that many find their most difficult project is branding themselves.

    The best way to describe it is, it's like trying to paint the outside of a house whilst you dwell inside it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Curtis2011
    The worst is when you see a forum post asking how to make money and in his signature he is selling a product that promises you will make money.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tom Dean
    I've never had a problem with a seller not using the product they are selling for their sales pitch. However, when they say this page created by the "Sales Page Creator" they are selling (for example) it gives me more confidence in purchasing the product.
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  • Profile picture of the author michaelswengel
    You raise a great point! Some marketers are so pushy about XYZ but they don't use it themselves! Especially if a product is a service, like a video maker as you mentioned, one has to wonder WHY someone who is so crazy about it DOESN'T use it.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rory Singh
    This is a relevant point and quite true. There is a lot of Hypocrisy in marketing but it isn't just confined to our little make money from home entrepreneurial world.

    The Government has some of the absolute very best marketers trying to 'pawn' off some of the most ludicrous ideas on the world every single day...

    Like GMO (genetically modified foods found in our local grocery store).

    Do the people who run our countries (and the world) actually eat what they are selling to us and our families?

    What the hell is in the flu shot? Ever since I stopped seeing doctors and taking the flu shot, I hardly ever get sick anymore.

    Do the people who run the medical industries actually take the shots and vaccinations that they want us to give to our children?

    Now let's look at the affiliate world...

    Most of the affiliates are trying to sell stuff to their lists mainly because they are getting the opportunity to promote products without having to buy them first.

    I never promoted any CB products because I myself didn't see the value in most of those products.

    Before I can be successful promoting a product, I have to be sold first or else I find that most people won't buy it from me.

    But back to 'Hypocrisy', this will always exist as long as human nature exists.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tesslady
    I get what you mean. It can be quite annoying, but how will you know for sure that they are not using what they are selling on other sites or platforms, or they have no idea about the tools, services, or games they are marketing. That's the beauty of IM though, you can get away with anything as long as the copy is right and definitely as long as the product does what it says on the box. Fret Not.
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