Whine: It's 2009 -- why can't things like this be totally intuitive?...

48 replies
Why must I have a PhD to set up hosting?

Why does it take "special" knowledge? Why does it take more than two clicks of a mouse? Why is there no intuitive, no-brainer interface? Why must I even know the three letters, "FTP?"

Needing to host one's sites is something EVERYONE needs to do -- so why is the process (still) so complex? Why must I be forced to "learn" ANYTHING in order to accomplish it?

As I say -- it's 2009. What gives?
#2009 #intuitive #things #totally #whine
  • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
    Originally Posted by -- TW View Post

    Needing to host one's sites is something EVERYONE needs to do -- so why is the process (still) so complex?
    Why is flying an airplane so complex?

    Look, if you want to go into the cabin and have a seat, you don't get your own web site. You get space on someone else's. You don't own your own 747. You buy a ticket on one when you need it - just like you might go start up a blog on Blogger, or wordpress.com, or any number of other places.

    But if you don't want to let their pilots fly you where they want to go when they want to go there, you need to get your own plane - and either hire a pilot, or become one yourself.
    Signature
    "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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    • Profile picture of the author AndyBlackSEO
      Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

      Why is flying an airplane so complex?

      Look, if you want to go into the cabin and have a seat, you don't get your own web site. You get space on someone else's. You don't own your own 747. You buy a ticket on one when you need it - just like you might go start up a blog on Blogger, or wordpress.com, or any number of other places.

      But if you don't want to let their pilots fly you where they want to go when they want to go there, you need to get your own plane - and either hire a pilot, or become one yourself.
      I think that answers it "perfectly".
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  • Profile picture of the author TimothyW
    I don't really buy the pilot analogy.

    The difference is -- everyone is trying to do the exact same thing. Have a website.

    You're saying no one can come up with a system that takes all the behind-the-scenes mumbo jumbo OUT of the process? An intuitive INTERFACE?
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    • Profile picture of the author Lawrh
      People who love to learn and think for themselves, make money.

      People who love to keep their brain in neutral, spend money.

      The former feed off the latter.
      Signature

      “Strategy without action is a day-dream; action without strategy is a nightmare.” – Old Japanese proverb -

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      • Profile picture of the author Jeremy Kelsall
        When I couldn't do that stuff, I just paid someone else $15 to do it lol
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      • Profile picture of the author WareTime
        Originally Posted by Lawrh View Post

        People who love to learn and think for themselves, make money.

        People who love to keep their brain in neutral, spend money.

        The former feed off the latter.
        I'm hungry
        Signature

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        • Profile picture of the author ExRat
          Hi --TW,

          Why must I have a PhD to set up hosting?

          Why does it take "special" knowledge? Why does it take more than two clicks of a mouse? Why is there no intuitive, no-brainer interface? Why must I even know the three letters, "FTP?"

          Needing to host one's sites is something EVERYONE needs to do -- so why is the process (still) so complex? Why must I be forced to "learn" ANYTHING in order to accomplish it?

          As I say -- it's 2009. What gives?
          I have no PHDs - but I learnt how to do it. I had to. And I did it the hard way - totally on my jack, with many situations that caused me severe stress and the desire to quit.

          This pattern repeats itself continually - even running a powerful PC stacked with applications can drive you temporarily insane when something just won't work and there appears to be no solution.

          BUT I would encourage ANYONE who has the same type of drive to succeed that I have to do it this way. The benefits are almost priceless - certainly impossible to put a realistic value on. The only way to experience the value is to have the balls to get to the 'other side' - whatever it takes. Those benefits are what develops -

          a) intiative

          b) unshakeable self-belief

          c) even MORE drive

          ...and reveals revelations that can only be discovered this way. There's not much point in me trying to spell them out too much, because a revelation shared is just more cheap gossip to be discarded - but I'll give it a go.

          It's one of those things where the only way to clear the 'mist' is to persevere. And once you do, and the mist clears, you realise that it wasn't so difficult after all. It was a mirage. And it becomes even less of a mirage on future challenges because of the change in perspective it gives to EVERY new challenge.

          Previously, I remember seeing opaqueness - no way forward - a blank screen. Once the mist cleared on one challenge, each new challenge is less 'misty' and daunting. And this is exponential too.

          The chorus of one of my favourite songs sums it up nicely, although the topic is different - but the analogy fits. WARNING - a little strong language in the link below (2 x 'F' word)-

          You have to pay the price of admission - sometime in your life, somewhere along the line...

          In all honesty, if this hosting problem makes you whine like this, you're screwed. Technology can be a nightmare until you learn to K.I.S.S., but if hosting defeats you, other people almost certainly will. Have faith that overcoming this hurdle will provide hidden benefits, and trust me when I say that looking for cookie-cutter push-button newbie solutions because of this kind of challenge will be the cause of your demise.

          Finding your own solutions, like a man possessed, is the elusive 'next level.'

          Hint - there are many icons on my hosting account that I NEVER use and probably never will. But I remember when they filled me with doubt about my ability to conquer and master the tool. There are more that I don't use than I use. Google search is your best friend, but you have to learn how to woo it to give you what you want and bypass it's inadequacies.

          Hi Jeremy,

          When I couldn't do that stuff, I just paid someone else $15 to do it lol
          I see the point you are making, and I understand that it works for some, but here's why I prefer my plan -

          1) you will always be paying that $15

          2) when the person who 'saves' you lets you down (usually at a critical time) you are screwed

          3) you can never be sure about what you are getting for your money

          4) you can never train your outsource to be more efficient

          5) you will never know just how easy and beneficial it is to at least learn to do it yourself the first time

          I repeat - there are hidden benefits, and they fast-forward your ability as an entrepreneur.

          How many books have you read by successful people who told you that they -

          a) never asked anyone to do something they wouldn't/couldn't do themselves

          b) believe that a key to their success was in understanding every single process used in their business at the most basic level (IE as the person doing it)

          I have read this so many times that it has become my mantra (can you tell? :-))

          Once someone has a large organisation, they can employ innovators. But it takes one to know one, so who's going to hire them?
          Signature


          Roger Davis

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      • Profile picture of the author mayapearl
        Originally Posted by Lawrh View Post

        People who love to learn and think for themselves, make money.

        People who love to keep their brain in neutral, spend money.

        The former feed off the latter.
        This is so good, I want to use it!!
        Maya
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        Maya's Own
        Living green made simple and easy @ Green Living Temple
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    • Profile picture of the author Daniel Molano
      Originally Posted by -- TW View Post

      You're saying no one can come up with a system that takes all the behind-the-scenes mumbo jumbo OUT of the process? An intuitive INTERFACE?
      There already is, it's called Fantastico. You can install several CMS using it, including WP and Joomla.

      Hosting cPanel > Fantastico > WordPress 1 Click Install

      That's it. How more intuitive could it possibly get?

      Any decent hosting, be it shared, VPS or dedicated has Fantastico availability.
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      Como Ganar Dinero Por Internet - Spanish Make Money Online Site

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      - LinkedIn Profile
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  • Profile picture of the author Mohammad Afaq
    I don't think it is very difficult. I mean you just have to:

    Design Your Pages,
    Save them on the computer,
    Upload them through an FTP program, (takes less than 10 clicks)
    viola! You have a website.

    P.S. By the way I am a Programmer and I thought of creating something like this but then I just dropped it because I thought everyone knows this. I might need to rethink that.
    Signature

    “The first draft of anything is shit.” ~Ernest Hemingway

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  • Profile picture of the author wwesley
    Well, i think of it this way, if is that easy, competition would be extremely high as everyone will be jumping into it. Next thing you know, people would be whining why doing such stuff is so easy that it is tough for the veterans to stay afloat. Think positively.
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  • Profile picture of the author wisecrone333
    I am one of the least technical people I know and yet I found using Hostgator and a free ftp solved most of my problems. Admittedly my sites don't have the polished look of an "expertly created" one, but I kinda hope that is part of my appeal (Hope )

    When every buck counts you learn to do what you must and sooner or later you do it right.

    Best wishes
    Lisa
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  • Profile picture of the author TimothyW
    Dear Goldilocks...

    Are you saying, the more difficult the better?

    I'm sure you cannot be saying that.

    Are you saying the degree of difficulty is "juuuuust right" as it is now?

    Or would you say, easier is better?

    If so, what I'm saying is, there has GOT to be a way (or ways) to make the interface to get these BASIC things done MUCH EASIER.

    First there were coding-only website builders -- now there are WYSIWYG editors. They are commonplace. The interface was imporved so that the *inner workings* are INVISIBLE to the user.

    It's a spectrum. The closer things get to the "no nerdiness needed" end, the better -- no? Or are you all lawyer-like -- meaning you want to KEEP it all secret cody, complete with secret handshakes, etc. Why?

    Someone should be able to walk into the world wide web -- be reasonably intelligent -- sit down at a computer and do something as BASIC as create + publish a good looking website WITHOUT needing to climb a steep learning curve or don nerd glasses. It's just not necessary (this being 2009).

    And, no, I don't consider weebly, etc. to be a good looking website.

    If everyone in the world is attempting to to this (publish a website), then there should be ways for them to ACCOMPLISH that quickly + INTUITIVELY.

    The "but then everyone will be doing it and we'll all go out of business" argument is ridiculous. That only means you WANT to keep all the inside methods a SECRET so you can continue to charge $$ for your skills that are only "skills" because you want to surpress intuitive interfaces. Wow -- think of all the MORE $$ you could be making if there were no WYSIWYG editors out there!

    PS: Lisa -- at the bottom of one of your sites, I found this... http://www.wysiwygwebbuilder.com/
    Their sales page contains this benefit...

    "One Click Publishing" No FTP program needed. No special hosting required, use with any Hosting Service!

    *** Why?

    Simple. Because that's one of the DRAWBACKS that keeps "real" people OUT of the net (in terms of being able to publish their own websites).
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Okay, first of all, I'm going to totally disagree that navigating through Cpanel
      or whatever the heck you're using is hard.

      It's not.

      It's about as intuitive as it can be.

      I abhor technology, and even I can host my sites, upload pages, ftp and
      do whatever I have to in order to have a site online with the things I
      need up there to run my business.

      If you think this is hard, then I pity you for things that are REALLY hard,
      like trying to write a PHP script to track clicks or editing a WordPress
      theme to suit your tastes.

      Bottom line is this...I see absolutely no way to make what you're talking
      about any more intuitive than it is. I mean for crying out loud, with Cpanel
      it's point and click. How much easier do you want it?

      As others have said, if you can't do it yourself, go dig a crowbar into
      your wallet and hire somebody to do it for you.

      But easier??? It can't get any easier considering what it is you're asking
      the interface to do.
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  • Profile picture of the author TimothyW
    My brother and I are fairly intelligent. I signed up with site5 hosting. It took us several *hours* to figure out how to ftp using the mozilla ftp. We did figure it out -- but I'm not sure we'd be able to retrace our steps. All the while we're figuring this all out, I'm thinking: "WHY?!?! -- why must it be like this?" Again, I point out the difference between dreamweaver and wysiswyg editors.

    The former is like, "I want a computer -- ok -- step one is *first, wrap a copper wire tightly around a magnet...* That's nice if you want to revel in the process because you relish having a nerdy new hobby/skill. There should be ways for non-nerd personalities to intuitively publish their own sites. If that were not true, that sales page would (instead) say, "EXTRA BONUS -- you get to learn the inside process + code needed to FTP the old-fashioned, complicated, get-your-fingernails-dirty way!"
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by -- TW View Post

      My brother and I are fairly intelligent. I signed up with site5 hosting. It took us several *hours* to figure out how to ftp using the mozilla ftp. We did figure it out -- but I'm not sure we'd be able to retrace our steps. All the while we're figuring this all out, I'm thinking: "WHY?!?! -- why must it be like this?" Again, I point out the difference between dreamweaver and wysiswyg editors.

      The former is like, "I want a computer -- ok -- step one is *first, wrap a copper wire tightly around a magnet...* That's nice if you want to revel in the process because you relish having a nerdy new hobby/skill. There should be ways for non-nerd personalities to intuitively publish their own sites. If that were not true, that sales page would (instead) say, "EXTRA BONUS -- you get to learn the inside process + code needed to FTP the old-fashioned, complicated, get-your-fingernails-dirty way!"

      Let me ask you a question. Do you think typing something into a Word
      document and saving it is easy and intuitive?

      Well there are people in this world who can't even get THAT much down
      right.

      No matter how simple you make something, there will be people who will
      say, "Why can't they make it simpler?"

      What will ultimately be intuitive to YOU will STILL be a pain in the ass to
      somebody else.

      Eventually, we have to draw the line at how dumbed down we want to
      make something.

      As far as hosting goes, I truly believe we have drawn that line.

      I just can't see it being any simpler.
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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by -- TW View Post

      It took us several *hours* to figure out how to ftp using the mozilla ftp.
      Getting Started Guide - Site5Wiki

      That took you several hours?
      Signature
      "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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  • Profile picture of the author Karen Connell
    I am not technically minded at all - I still struggle setting Sky up to record a TV programme!

    But even I can use cpanel now.

    Ok, there was quite a lot of trial and error but if I wanted to put a simple website up, I had no other alternative but to learn how to do it.

    I couldn't afford to pay someone to do it for me, I had no-one to show me but I gave it a go and eventually I did it - my website, simple though it is, was online!!

    Now... why isn't there a point and click for designing a fantastic website from scratch?:confused:

    Karen
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    Never Mistake Activity for Accomplishment

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  • Profile picture of the author gyar29
    TW,

    I think you may be missing the point of most of the posts answering your initial question. They are trying to tell you that what you are complaining about is pretty much as easy as it gets in IM.

    Jeremy tells you that it is so non-techie that it only costs $15 to get someone else to do it for you.

    Roger tells you that knowing how to do what is essentially a basic task is essential to your IM success. Even if you never do it yourself. I never change the oil in my cars, but I know how. I have never installed my own water heater, but I could if I had to. If I get a flat tire I call AAA, but if they don't show in time I can get it done. The ability to do those things you don't like will always pay off. Even if that knowledge does nothing but keep you from getting screwed when you hire someone else.

    Steve again is telling you that what you want to do is easy.

    We are all telling you that your refusal to do a little research. To put forth a tad of effort. To get off your ass and figure out this very simple process does not bode well for your future success in anything, not just IM.

    Regardless of what you think reality should be, reality is that IM takes work. It requires study, the ability to learn from your mistakes, and the courage to make those mistakes. There are no "easy" buttons available.

    You've come up against one of the 1st hurdles all of us hit and you've folded. You've thrown up your hands and stated that "This is too hard, this is not intuitive, this should be easier so I can't do it."

    And you're right, you can't...

    Unless you learn from this thread and realize that nothing is served up on a silver platter until you've done the work required to pay for the platter.

    So change your mindset. Don't become frustrated because something is not the way you think it should be. Accept the way it is and keep on chugging.

    BTW, once you learn how easy setting up your own site really is, you will wish this thread did not exist. I promise you that.

    Good Luck,
    Gene

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  • Profile picture of the author longdrv4u
    Originally Posted by -- TW View Post

    Why must I have a PhD to set up hosting?

    Why does it take "special" knowledge? Why does it take more than two clicks of a mouse? Why is there no intuitive, no-brainer interface? Why must I even know the three letters, "FTP?"

    Needing to host one's sites is something EVERYONE needs to do -- so why is the process (still) so complex? Why must I be forced to "learn" ANYTHING in order to accomplish it?

    As I say -- it's 2009. What gives?
    If you want simple use Blogger or wordpress. When you get comfortable go with hostgator or similar hosting that has a c panel you can install wordpress in a couple minuets with fantastico (located in the c-panel).
    Hostgator has short video tutorials.
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  • Profile picture of the author Aljiro
    I believe I few warriors hit the nail on the head already. Specially mister Wagenheim.

    I want to push the nail just a little bit deeper

    You see most of the tools that exist online NOW are EASY and INTUITIVE. It takes just a bit of reading and tinkering to get things right. And if it doesn't you better consult the documentation or something. If all else fails just hire another dude to help you.

    Just be glad that you didn't have to CODE your way through Cpanel. Now that would suck! lol

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    • Profile picture of the author CDarklock
      Originally Posted by digitalphantom05 View Post

      You see most of the tools that exist online NOW are EASY and INTUITIVE.
      I swear, these kids.

      > ftp
      OPEN mysite.com
      USER cdarklock
      PWD
      CD public_html
      ASCII
      PUT index.html
      PUT about.html
      PUT privacy.html
      CD images
      BINARY
      PUT logo.gif
      PUT bullet.gif
      PUT photo.gif
      PUT bg.gif
      BYE

      Ooh, wait. Anybody else ever done this?

      # cat > index.html

      Yeah, you need a PhD today all right.
      Signature
      "The Golden Town is the Golden Town no longer. They have sold their pillars for brass and their temples for money, they have made coins out of their golden doors. It is become a dark town full of trouble, there is no ease in its streets, beauty has left it and the old songs are gone." - Lord Dunsany, The Messengers
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      • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
        Originally Posted by CDarklock View Post

        I swear, these kids.

        > ftp
        OPEN mysite.com
        USER cdarklock
        PWD
        CD public_html
        ASCII
        PUT index.html
        PUT about.html
        PUT privacy.html
        CD images
        BINARY
        PUT logo.gif
        PUT bullet.gif
        PUT photo.gif
        PUT bg.gif
        BYE

        Ooh, wait. Anybody else ever done this?

        # cat > index.html

        Yeah, you need a PhD today all right.

        Hey CD, I remember those days...not fun AT ALL.
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  • Profile picture of the author timer
    They always say "the best things in life are free". Nothing in my working life beats the feeling of putting my first site online, designed by me, ftp'ed by me and content by me. It took a few hours and a couple of how to books but the sense of achievment was immense. Yes it looked less than brilliant but it did the job. I knew how to do it and each site got a bit better.

    I am a strong believer in always trying to learn and not sitting back letting my brain atrophy. I have no computer or software background but managed to pick up enough to get the job done.
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  • Profile picture of the author Karen Connell
    There are many video tutorials online.

    Do a search, find a good one, watch it a few times - then give it a go!

    If you mess up - try again... and again...

    It is only a month since I figured it out (by searching for a video and watching it several times), but the other day I even figured out (same way) how to transfer a full site from one host to another - and I'm a middle aged grandmother with hardly any previous knowledge of IM.

    If I can do - anyone can. You just need to keep at it 'til you get it right.

    So look for some vids and spend some time learning.

    Karen

    p.s My next challenge is to teach myself some html:confused:
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  • Profile picture of the author TimothyW
    Gene said: BTW, once you learn how easy setting up your own site really is, you will wish this thread did not exist. I promise you that.

    Believe me -- I really hope that becomes true.

    Steve -- yes, it's a spectrum. Some people can't cross even the tiniest tech threshold.

    But let's look at my op specifically...

    [ching-a-ling-a-ling] -- that's the bell over the door of The Keeper of the Net store. Custoemr walks in.

    Cust: I want to create a blog.

    KoTN: Sure -- that's easy -- just go to blogger or wordpress.

    Cust: Great -- that was easy! Now I want to do what 80% of bloggers want to do -- I want to ad some kind of ads to my blog -- y'know, to monetize it.

    KoTN: Yes -- you can do that. But first...

    Cust: But first what?

    KoTN: First you must learn a new hobby -- oh, and join our secret club.

    Cust: What if I don't WANT to learn a new hobby? What if I don't WANT to join your club?

    KoTN: Ahhh -- then you are not permitted to monetize your site.

    ________________________________

    I submit as evidence -- me. Yes, I can easily publish a blog on wordpress -- but NO -- it's not easy to put ads on that blog. I did a search of video tutorials. The one I looked at starts -- "First, install wordspress on your server, then [some other special-skill-needed mumbo jumbo, etc. etc.]. Immediate reaction: What in the *WORLD* are you talking about?!?!

    I'm sorry -- that is *learning a new hobby* no matter how you look at it.

    Again, I have to ask WHY? Why put *ANY* hurdles in the way of letting people do BASIC things that everyone wants to do -- like publish a blog *AND* put ads on it.

    I want to accomplish that WITHOUT learning a new hobby.
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    • Profile picture of the author Sagar Mehta
      Originally Posted by -- TW View Post

      I'm sorry -- that is *learning a new hobby* no matter how you look at it.

      Again, I have to ask WHY? Why put *ANY* hurdles in the way of letting people do BASIC things that everyone wants to do -- like publish a blog *AND* put ads on it.

      I want to accomplish that WITHOUT learning a new hobby.
      Nothing against you my friend but if things were as easy as pie for everybody, how would that put you ahead of the others?

      We all breathe - without hurdles. That's why no one charges you for breathing. That's why no one owns a business that enables you to breathe by selling air (yet).

      How can you accomplish more without knowing more?

      Sagar
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by -- TW View Post

      Gene said: BTW, once you learn how easy setting up your own site really is, you will wish this thread did not exist. I promise you that.

      Believe me -- I really hope that becomes true.

      Steve -- yes, it's a spectrum. Some people can't cross even the tiniest tech threshold.

      But let's look at my op specifically...

      [ching-a-ling-a-ling] -- that's the bell over the door of The Keeper of the Net store. Custoemr walks in.

      Cust: I want to create a blog.

      KoTN: Sure -- that's easy -- just go to blogger or wordpress.

      Cust: Great -- that was easy! Now I want to do what 80% of bloggers want to do -- I want to ad some kind of ads to my blog -- y'know, to monetize it.

      KoTN: Yes -- you can do that. But first...

      Cust: But first what?

      KoTN: First you must learn a new hobby -- oh, and join our secret club.

      Cust: What if I don't WANT to learn a new hobby? What if I don't WANT to join your club?

      KoTN: Ahhh -- then you are not permitted to monetize your site.

      ________________________________

      I submit as evidence -- me. Yes, I can easily publish a blog on wordpress -- but NO -- it's not easy to put ads on that blog. I did a search of video tutorials. The one I looked at starts -- "First, install wordspress on your server, then [some other special-skill-needed mumbo jumbo, etc. etc.]. Immediate reaction: What in the *WORLD* are you talking about?!?!

      I'm sorry -- that is *learning a new hobby* no matter how you look at it.

      Again, I have to ask WHY? Why put *ANY* hurdles in the way of letting people do BASIC things that everyone wants to do -- like publish a blog *AND* put ads on it.

      I want to accomplish that WITHOUT learning a new hobby.

      TW, no offense intended, but what are you 5?

      Know what?

      Here's an idea.

      Why don't we make all baseball bats come with a built in device that
      all a person has to do is hold it over the plate and when the ball comes,
      the bat will automatically seek it out and hit it over the fence. That way
      every little boy who dreams of becoming a major league player can be
      the next Babe Ruth.

      Oh wait, I got an even better idea.

      How about all PCs come with built in artificial intelligence so that all you
      have to do is think your thoughts into the PC (they'll have a device that
      will allow you to do that) and anything you want to do will be instantly
      done. Just say, "Put up web site with cool graphics, buy now button, and
      oh, while you're at it, find me all the traffic I need and direct it to my
      site. I'll be sitting on the beech drinking pina coladas.

      Or how about this?

      We get Jean Gray from the X-Men to telikenitically move around everything
      you need so that you don't even have to get up to do anything. Or better
      yet, why mess with an amateur? Get Professor X himself. He can brainwash
      all your prospects to buy your product and they won't even know it.

      How's that for REAL mind control?

      Eat your heart out Frank Kern.

      TW...grow up.

      This is the way it is.

      So you have 2 choices.

      1. Accept what is and deal with it (learn)
      2. Do something else with your life.

      I hear McDonald's is hiring at about $8 an hour.

      All you have to know how to do for that job is say, "Would you like fries
      with that?"

      Think you can handle it?

      If not, we can hire a spokesmodel to say the words for you.

      Even those mindless bimbos can handle that much.
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  • Profile picture of the author Karen Connell
    In order to do any job properly you have to learn new things.

    You might not want to, but if it's necessary to do the job you have to bite the bullet and learn or find another job.

    Figuring out cpanel etc is a basic necessity in order to run a successful IM business.

    So, if you are serious about making a living doing this - you just have to do it!

    Karen
    Signature

    Never Mistake Activity for Accomplishment

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  • Profile picture of the author gyar29
    TW,

    I hope you're continuing to argue your point because you hate to lose. That is a trait that will serve you well in the future. In most cases.

    In this case, it will only force many of us to give up on you and let you go on your way.

    However, I will attempt to make our point more transparent one more time.

    Many experienced and knowledgeable people have already told you that what you want to do is not hard. But it does take a bit of initiative. There are a number of free plugins available to put ads on your blog. There are a number of free tutorials available to teach you how to install and use those plugins. To hell with Google, a search on this forum for those subjects will net you all the info you will need.

    I'm sorry -- that is *learning a new hobby* no matter how you look at it.

    Again, I have to ask WHY? Why put *ANY* hurdles in the way of letting people do BASIC things that everyone wants to do -- like publish a blog *AND* put ads on it.

    I want to accomplish that WITHOUT learning a new hobby.
    For those comments there's only one response:



    Take Care,
    Gene
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    • Profile picture of the author Susanrh
      The first time I read about FTP I though WHAT? OMG I can't understand that! and it became a serious roadblock until I found a helpful video that went step by step through the whole process - it took about 2 minutes and I thought that's it??
      I went through the process once or twice (looking for the catch) and I was childishly delighted when it worked and so proud of myself.

      Can you drive a car? If you've been doing it for a while it's easy you don't even have to think about it. How were you the first time you got behind the wheel, not so good? When I first learnt I thought I was never going to be a driver, because everyone else made it look so easy and I couldn't even drive in a straight line, as for co-ordinating my feet with the gear change and a dozen other things it seemed impossible. I can't remember how long that lasted but I have been driving a loooong time now!

      Life is full of learning curves, you just have to accept that it has to be done, and get on with it.

      Susan
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  • Profile picture of the author Scott Ames
    Here ya go:

    Just push this button:





    Originally Posted by -- TW View Post

    Why must I have a PhD to set up hosting?

    Why does it take "special" knowledge? Why does it take more than two clicks of a mouse? Why is there no intuitive, no-brainer interface? Why must I even know the three letters, "FTP?"

    Needing to host one's sites is something EVERYONE needs to do -- so why is the process (still) so complex? Why must I be forced to "learn" ANYTHING in order to accomplish it?

    As I say -- it's 2009. What gives?
    Signature

    Success consists of going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm. -Winston Churchill

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    • Profile picture of the author Sandor Verebi
      Originally Posted by Scott Ames View Post

      Here ya go:

      Just push this button:


      Scott, you make TW's thing difficult only. Since he should take the money from the tree. Be merciful, do not expect this complicated operation from him.
      Signature

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      • Profile picture of the author ExRat
        Hi --TW,

        Not sure if you'll read this...

        I have to ask WHY? Why put *ANY* hurdles in the way of letting people do BASIC things that everyone wants to do -- like publish a blog *AND* put ads on it.
        Hurdles weren't put in the way. All that's happened is that many hurdles have been removed and continue to be removed. You're viewing this totally back-asswards, but it really should be obvious.

        But there's one other thing that you're totally missing, which many of us have been hinting at.

        It's not likely that you're going to be able to build a thriving business just by mastering hosting or ftp.

        Even when someone successfully masters their hosting and ftp, there are other things which are WAY more complicated AND undocumented that arrive immediately afterwards, as the path to online success is travelled.

        You seem to be under the impression that building a blog and putting ads on it is all that's needed for success.

        Are you starting to see the hidden benefits of developing initiative, resourcefulness and dogged determination with the easy stuff like hosting?

        It's not mastering hosting that's a problem. The problem is that someone who baulks at a little self-education with something so elementary will find it difficult to succeed with the REAL challenges that come with building an online business - the type of stuff that needs to be mastered AFTER the basics have been dealt with.

        KoTN: First you must learn a new hobby -- oh, and join our secret club.

        Cust: What if I don't WANT to learn a new hobby? What if I don't WANT to join your club?

        KoTN: Ahhh -- then you are not permitted to monetize your site.
        Bizarre analogy, but regardless - if there is a secret club, the only barrier to entry is yourself.

        Are you going to join the 'self-starter entrepreneur club' or are you going to continue to refuse yourself entry?

        I'm done here, I'll give my time instead to non-whingeing non-help-vampires who will do something with the help they are given (only you and I know exactly what I'm referring to).
        Signature


        Roger Davis

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        • Profile picture of the author Sandor Verebi
          Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

          ...
          Even when someone successfully masters their hosting and ftp, there are other things which are WAY more complicated AND undocumented that arrive immediately afterwards, as the path to online success is travelled.

          You seem to be under the impression that building a blog and putting ads on it is all that's needed for success.

          Are you starting to see the hidden benefits of developing initiative, resourcefulness and dogged determination with the easy stuff like hosting?

          It's not mastering hosting that's a problem. The problem is that someone who baulks at a little self-education with something so elementary will find it difficult to succeed with the REAL challenges that come with building an online business - the type of stuff that needs to be mastered AFTER the basics have been dealt with....
          This is very true. That's the reason for set up your plan first with your short term and long term goals (tactics and strategy).

          Let us see an example: after you completed your hosting and you set up your site by FTP then - evidently - to getting traffic will be your next task.

          To fulfill this need you'll make folloving activities (without the claim of the completeness):

          ***Buying existing or expired domain (yet it before hosting)
          ***SEO (yet it along with site building and before FTP - later permanently)
          ***Article marketing (time? ability? knowledge? budget?)
          >your own work
          >PLR
          >outsourcing
          ***PPC (knowledge? budget?)
          ***Advertising (budget?)
          >banner
          >solo
          >social
          >offline
          -- Press Release
          -- TV, Radio
          -- Local organizations
          ***JV (permanently)
          >partners
          >competitors
          >affiliates
          -- recruited across aff.programs
          -- your satisfied customers
          ***Link building (permanently)
          >backlinking
          >link buying
          >link exchange
          ***Viral programs (permanently)
          >giveaways
          >free reports
          >free courses
          >free videors
          ***Blogs, Squido, Hub, (Craigslist maybe)
          ***Forum marketing
          ***RSS feeds
          ***Twitter
          ***Others

          TW, you may be a beginner or a seasoned pro in these - I don't know - but believe me that these are only a tiny segments (the basics) of a getting traffic question not to mention the big picture what called Internet Marketing. As you perhaps know everything is linked to everything always.

          IMHO to learn the basics and mainly apply it correctly is not futile. Your wallet will be grateful for it.

          All the best

          Sandor
          "Learning is not child's play; we cannot learn without pain." Aristotle, the ancient Greek
          Signature

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      • Profile picture of the author Susan Hope
        TW if you don't want to do these things yourself you can outsource to me, we can discuss pricing via pm if you like and I have to say now how extremely glad I am I did bother to learn this stuff about a year or so ago so that I can now do it for you, for a price of course..

        To everyone else, some fantastic feedback especially Roger and Steven - oh TW did you miss Roger's (ExRat) reply earlier in your thread, I didn't see where you responded?

        Cheers
        Sue

        PS off to work out some prices.
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  • Profile picture of the author catherine ford
    Originally Posted by -- TW View Post

    Why must I have a PhD to set up hosting?

    Why does it take "special" knowledge? Why does it take more than two clicks of a mouse? Why is there no intuitive, no-brainer interface? Why must I even know the three letters, "FTP?"

    Needing to host one's sites is something EVERYONE needs to do -- so why is the process (still) so complex? Why must I be forced to "learn" ANYTHING in order to accomplish it?

    As I say -- it's 2009. What gives?
    if you are not prepared to learn perhaps another occuapation would be better. There are things to leanr about Internet marketing everydat, but as Jeremy says you do bnot want ot leanr them pay.
    Simple choice
    Catherine
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  • Profile picture of the author SKWeaver
    I guess I don't get it. I don't understand what's so hard about setting up hosting. I think I am the least technical guy on the planet. When someone starts talking about HTML or PHP or anything else that even sounds like programming, my eyes glaze over and roll to the back of my head.

    I don't know how the cpanel interface could be anymore intuitive than it already is. I don't even use FTP because cpanel makes it so easy to do through their interface.

    On the few occasions when I've wanted to do something I've never done before, cpanel has been a piece of cake to use. I recently wanted to add a domain to my account and had never done that before. All I had to do was click on the "Addon Doman" button and it walked me through every step of the way. Completely idiotproof.

    I'm not sure what hosting you're using, but it must not be cpanel. If it isn't, do yourself a favor and switch. I use bluehost and have never had a problem. Plus, if I get stuck, I just call their support it's 24/7 and the best I've ever found.
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    • Profile picture of the author Mike Shain
      I can't believe I just sat here and read through this thread. Lots of great feedback (as always).

      Be glad the hosting industry has advanced so much over the years and with Cpanel most everything is a snap. Telnet or ssh any one?

      We have teenagers, college kids, unemployed moms and dads - even grandmas and grandpas building sites/pages/blogs.

      To borrow a popular tv commercial tag line. "Its so easy a caveman could do it"

      There is always going to be something about your business that you don't like or find to difficult to do. In those cases you simply suck it up and get 'er done or you hire the kid next door to do it for you.
      Signature

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  • Profile picture of the author Daniel Brock
    Dude it is as easy as it is going to be.

    Look, if you don't want to do what it takes to make a website, than don't do it. It is i that simple.

    You can either sit here and whine about it, spend the 6 hours it will take for you to figure out how to do it on your own, or pay someone to do it for you.

    Complaining about how hard it is on an internet marketing forum is not going to get you any sympathy.

    And PS: You know how many millions of dollars have been spent trying to make the hosting part of things easy? It's not like you throw together a couple scripts and call it a day. It is way more complicated than that...and in all honesty I dont see it getting any easier for the next 10 years
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  • Profile picture of the author bobcath
    TW the simplicity you seek probably does exist in other forms than already wisely stated. For example CB Pirate (you can check this out in other threads... and I have no interest in it). It does appear though to be the type of set up you seek, hope this helps.

    Bobby
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  • Profile picture of the author Technologize
    THis guy is stuck on his 'IT"s TOO HARD' rant. Reasoning with him will not work. Explaining how things are much easier now then they used to be will not work. This has nothing to do with how easy or hard it is, it's to do with this guys attitude. He's hung up on a perspective that it's hard. I think that says more about him, and the way he chooses to view life and it's challenges then anything else.
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  • Profile picture of the author TimothyW
    Thanks for all the responses.

    Just to clarify -- I'm NOT gonna give up on all this, of course. I'm sure once I learn what I need to know this thread will seem absurd (even) to me.

    Some of the comments you've made range from...

    It COULDN'T be easier (already).

    It SHOULDN'T be easier.

    ----- I'm sure you can't really believe either of those statements.

    It COULD be easier -- as evidenced by at least one co who's touting their benefit of "One-Click FTP."

    And the absurdity of "It SHOULDN'T be easier" is obvious.

    Then someone said, "If you can't figure it out, you should find another profession."

    Profession?!?

    You have to (intend to) become a professional IMer before you can post a blog and put ads on it? Are you saying the only people who should be "able" (allowed?) to post a blog AND put ads on it, are professional IMers? That's like saying, the only people who should be able to use a plunger on their toilet are professional, licensed plumbers. Ridiculous.

    PS: Sorry -- I confused two similar threads I started. The other thread was about publishing a blog + then adding ads to it (which I believe could also be a lot more self-evident + just-plain-one-click-easy. Anyhow, the same philosophical questions apply to hosting + the ability to publish/host a website.
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  • Profile picture of the author George Wright
    There are a lot of steps and it does get tiresome. However this is the re traceable order.

    1. Boot up PC
    2. Log on to Internet
    3. Direct Browser to site
    4. Type in User ID and Password
    5. Click the area you want to visit
    6. Type Content
    7. Spell check content
    8. Ad Graphics (read the manual, too much to put here)
    9. Click post
    10. Edit

    Oops, sorry, this is how you post on the Warrior Forum. cPanel is not quite as complicated.



    George Wright, P.S. Every little action on the internet had a learning curve for me. I "almost gave up" back in the days, just trying to IM my friends on AOL. Then I build a website, again AOL, does anyone remember AOL home or something like that? Seriously, the research I've done on alzheimer's really makes me believe that the Internet and other PC related endeavors is going to stave it off in many of us simply because of the dendrites and new brain cell connections created as we figure out the next steps. It sure beats working cross word puzzles.
    Signature
    "The first chapter sells the book; the last chapter sells the next book." Mickey Spillane
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by George Wright View Post

      There are a lot of steps and it does get tiresome. However this is the re traceable order.

      1. Boot up PC
      2. Log on to Internet
      3. Direct Browser to site
      4. Type in User ID and Password
      5. Click the area you want to visit
      6. Type Content
      7. Spell check content
      8. Ad Graphics (read the manual, too much to put here)
      9. Click post
      10. Edit

      Oops, sorry, this is how you post on the Warrior Forum. cPanel is not quite as complicated.



      George Wright, P.S. Every little action on the internet had a learning curve for me. I "almost gave up" back in the days, just trying to IM my friends on AOL. Then I build a website, again AOL, does anyone remember AOL home or something like that? Seriously, the research I've done on alzheimer's really makes me believe that the Internet and other PC related endeavors is going to stave it off in many of us simply because of the dendrites and new brain cell connections created as we figure out the next steps. It sure beats working cross word puzzles.

      George, it was members.aol.com and then it became AOL Hometown.

      You'll be happy to know that it has since been discontinued so AOL
      users no longer get free web hosting.

      I had it for years for my first, um, business.

      I'll leave it at that.
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  • Profile picture of the author TimothyW
    Ha ha George. Thanks -- I'll keep trying (to learn). My worst fears realized -- Yes, I'm the only one.
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  • Profile picture of the author bettersocial
    Originally Posted by -- TW View Post

    Why must I have a PhD to set up hosting?

    Why does it take "special" knowledge? Why does it take more than two clicks of a mouse? Why is there no intuitive, no-brainer interface? Why must I even know the three letters, "FTP?"

    Needing to host one's sites is something EVERYONE needs to do -- so why is the process (still) so complex? Why must I be forced to "learn" ANYTHING in order to accomplish it?

    As I say -- it's 2009. What gives?
    I think you have a very valid point here.

    And it's not just with web hosting. It's with the entire way computers function. If all you want to do is write a few letters in Word, and play Solitaire on your PC, you're fine. But as soon as you start doing anything complex, your computer will bail out on you.

    We still haven't managed to make something that is easy to use AND gives users some degree of power.

    Regarding hosting. This is 2009. As someone said, "if you don't have a website, you don't exist". Even seasoned computer users have difficulty understanding hosting.

    Imagine what would happen to your 70 year old grandpa if he decided he wanted a blog tomorrow, on his own domain name.

    Just as companies like Google, Twitter revolutionized search and communication respectively by cutting out the fat and presenting things in a lean, easy manner, I think it's time for some hosting company to step up and do the same - make a clean, easy to use interface that is not loaded with technical terms.
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by sashas View Post

      I think you have a very valid point here.

      And it's not just with web hosting. It's with the entire way computers function. If all you want to do is write a few letters in Word, and play Solitaire on your PC, you're fine. But as soon as you start doing anything complex, your computer will bail out on you.

      We still haven't managed to make something that is easy to use AND gives users some degree of power.

      Regarding hosting. This is 2009. As someone said, "if you don't have a website, you don't exist". Even seasoned computer users have difficulty understanding hosting.

      Imagine what would happen to your 70 year old grandpa if he decided he wanted a blog tomorrow, on his own domain name.

      Just as companies like Google, Twitter revolutionized search and communication respectively by cutting out the fat and presenting things in a lean, easy manner, I think it's time for some hosting company to step up and do the same - make a clean, easy to use interface that is not loaded with technical terms.

      Let me ask you a question. You say Google is making things "easier".

      Do you think Adwords advertising is easy?

      If it was, why do so many people go broke using it?

      Why are there so many books on the subject?

      Why is their a whole forum here dedicated to PPC discussion?

      Truth is, nothing is as easy as you say or think it is. Everything, no matter
      how simple it is, has some kind of a learning curve. The only reason some
      people find it easier than others is because they put the time in to learn
      it.

      And don't say there are things you didn't learn because we don't come
      out of the womb with any knowledge at all.

      Everything is learned.

      Sorry, but nobody can convince me of the argument that just because
      something is difficult or not completely intuitive that it can and must
      be made better. Sure, some things can, and will over time. But some
      things are going to be about as easy as they're going to get.

      The key is deciding that you're going to learn what you need to learn
      and stop whining about it being too hard.

      I swear I feel like I'm back in school teaching all those whiny kids who
      always bitched and moaned that programming a computer was too hard.

      Maybe if they freakin opened up a book and read the first chapter at least
      they might have had a chance.
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      • Profile picture of the author Sandor Verebi
        Originally Posted by Steven Wagenheim View Post

        ...
        The key is deciding that you're going to learn what you need to learn
        and stop whining about it being too hard.

        I swear I feel like I'm back in school teaching all those whiny kids who
        always bitched and moaned that programming a computer was too hard.

        Maybe if they freakin opened up a book and read the first chapter at least
        they might have had a chance.
        Steven, you are so right. I could not have said this better.

        But,

        those who would need to grab your advice mostly do not like hearing this text. To lament is easier, than to study and to apply the learned ones.

        Regards,

        Sandor
        _________
        "Learning is not child's play; we cannot learn without pain." Aristotle, an ancient Greek
        Signature

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        • Profile picture of the author ExRat
          Hi Sashas,

          Imagine what would happen to your 70 year old grandpa if he decided he wanted a blog tomorrow, on his own domain name.
          Read post #26
          Signature


          Roger Davis

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          • Profile picture of the author Karen Connell
            Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

            Hi Sashas,



            Read post #26
            Hey,

            I don't remember saying that I was 70 - I just feel like I am sometimes!

            My kids would just love to see that!

            I've still nearly 20 years to go before I'm that age.

            However, I am very technically challenged but determined to master this IM stuff - whatever it takes...

            Off to find walking frame - if only I could remember where I left it!

            Karen
            Signature

            Never Mistake Activity for Accomplishment

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            • Profile picture of the author FormerWageSlave
              TW,

              It really is not that hard, so you might want to look at yourself. If that fails, then check out SquareSpace. They do the drag-and-drop thing pretty well.
              Signature

              grrr...

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      • Profile picture of the author mikeyman120
        I feel very silly about this but hosting is the least of my worries. cpanel is easy and ftping is easier for me. I thought the autoresponder was going to be hard also but that was a breeze.

        Mike
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  • Profile picture of the author TimothyW
    Steven -- It's a spectrum. Things ARE being made easier all the time. You seem to be saying they should stop making that progress. Why? You sound like the guy who declared everything that can be invented, HAS (already) been invented -- it's a famous quote that's funny because it was said... in the 1800's!

    It's a natural progression that approaches (but never actually reaches) complete automation (NO learning curve AT ALL).

    I say it hasn't gotten close enough to that end of the spectrum yet (for my liking) -- you say it has (for yours).

    -- TW
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    • Profile picture of the author Steven Wagenheim
      Originally Posted by -- TW View Post

      Steven -- It's a spectrum. Things ARE being made easier all the time. You seem to be saying they should stop making that progress. Why? You sound like the guy who declared everything that can be invented, HAS (already) been invented -- it's a famous quote that's funny because it was said... in the 1800's!

      It's a natural progression that approaches (but never actually reaches) complete automation (NO learning curve AT ALL).

      I say it hasn't gotten close enough to that end of the spectrum yet (for my liking) -- you say it has (for yours).

      -- TW

      You know, that's the first sensible thing you've said yet. You're right.
      New stuff will always be invented. And hopefully, changes will be made
      to computer related things. And yes, it's close enough for me and not
      for you and as your opinion, you're entitled to it. Opinions are never
      wrong. That's why they're opinions.

      But here are the facts.

      What you're bitching about hasn't undergone any significant changes in
      at least 6 years and I seriously doubt you will see any significant changes
      to it in the next 6 years.

      When was the last significant change made to the microwave oven?

      The programming features I see on most microwaves today have been
      around at least since my daughter was 10.

      That was 10 years ago.

      Eventually, whatever changes are made are going to be so insignificant
      that they won't really matter, not really.

      In the meantime, you have 2 choices as I said.

      1. You can accept the fact that hosting is what it is today, and will
      probably be this way for quite some time.

      Or

      2. You can bitch and whine about it and allow it to hinder your progress
      as a human being.

      It's like a 5 year old saying, "I'm not going to learn that daddy. I'm going
      to wait until they come out with an easier way to do it. And they better."

      You might have a very long wait.

      So it's your choice.

      Bitch and whine...or accept.

      I know what I'd do.
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