Money making strategies: Why is the Cart ahead of the Horse?

Key Seek

8 years ago

Oops, I accidently posted the wrong thread

Thanks
1 reply

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Daniel Evans

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Key Seek

Here is an example: http://www.warriorforum.com/main-int...arms-blog.html

If you identify with a problem, especially one you feel is important, the best possible thing you can do is contribute towards the solution rather than call people out.

You speak the truth (in my opinion) so I believe you'd fare better by simply helping people directly whether a newbie or experienced marketer.

Thanks
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Key Seek

8 years ago

I meant to use another example but accidentally posted the firearm thread.

However, the firearms thread also illustrates my point: If you go into something with no experience, expect to fail.

In that thread the person is just in training for LE and probably has not put 100,000 rounds downrange. I am not calling him out, I am actually doing him a favor, as you can see with my last post on that thread:

Me "It is very, very competitive selling guns. The amount of regulation and paperwork will be a full time job, you cannot also be an officer." My friend the ranger sold his store because he was spending 8 hours a day on federal documents."

Selling guns would be something to do AFTER retiring from LE.

The OP did not even know about ffl's or laws selling guns. You cannot just sell a gun on the internet and ship it to the buyer. It has to go to a ffl, the ffl does the background check and then sells you the gun. In places like CA there are MORE regulations.

Most FFL's charge up to $100 for the sale and background. Yes, if you are connected it is cheaper, but most people are not. Also, there are a ton of internet sites that sell guns for very aggressive prices, but the competition is huge and often the shipping and ffl negate the savings. You also have a gun that may not fit or you may not like. That is why most people go brick and mortar.

This choice would be a good one after you retire from LE, say at around 50-55 years old You will then have the experience and the time.

So yes, putting the horse first would be a disaster.

The thing is, no matter what you are going to have to put a shit ton of work into the front end. Are you really going to stay motivated if it is something you have ne ral connection with?

No, you will not.

Finally, the "gun" purchaser" wants to focus on concealed carry. That is good, if you want to make holsters. If you have a passion for crafting holsters, that might work. All gun/guys/gals are looking for quality holsters.

But again, you need to know your market. What states allow concealed carry, what don't? Does the peoples republics of CA/NY even let you ship holsters? You can't even ship folders to NY.

What was the recent ccl change in Texas?

Yes, the technology is very important, but you must have your heart into it.

I have been going round and round for 3 months getting my technology together (its looks like my site is nearly done) I am editing martial arts videos all day, and will also be doing more content. It is OK because I love these things.

Originally Posted by Daniel Evans

If you identify with a problem, especially one you feel is important, the best possible thing you can do is contribute towards the solution rather than call people out.

You speak the truth (in my opinion) so I believe you'd fare better by simply helping people directly whether a newbie or experienced marketer.

Thanks

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Synnuh

8 years ago

Because smart business owners like to know there's a profitable market before they jump in head first.

It just happens to also be one of the areas newbies get stuck, dreaming too big or getting overwhelmed.

In your example, substance is implied. The OP of that post is in law enforcement and a gun enthusiast. He's got the qualifications to write about firearms.

Not sure the right way to answer your question, but when it comes to making money online, you tend to put the cart before the horse to make sure you're going to make money. Then you build the cart and teach the horse to pull it.

Techniques do matter, and the quality of the product matters -- if you want to build a long term business.

I'm sure the OP of that post knows that selling low quality firearms would land him in a world of hurt. Selling low quality products increases your returns, customer service, and decreases your own personal sanity.

Thanks
1 reply

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Key Seek

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Synnuh

...In your example, substance is implied. The OP of that post is in law enforcement and a gun enthusiast. He's got the qualifications to write about firearms...

No, he does not have the substance. He is LE in training. He does not even know the shipping laws (which vary fro state to state) or ffl requirements. He does not understand that selling guns will RUIN his LE career. He neds to focus on training.

I train with my friend who is a ccl instructor and on the SWT team. Most cops do not train regularly. SEALS and Rangers train regularly.

OP needs to focus on training. If he really wants to get serious, he should get into competitive shooting.

IDPA - Welcome!

I would love to go IPDA, but it is expensive. For the OP, many departments will subsidize training.

Thanks

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munir ahmed

8 years ago

Hi

One thing i have learnt in this journey
is that people buy in to you and not
the product....

If you are great at building a good
relationship then you will be able
to sell almost anything as long as
it will give them great Value...

Yes having a strategy is very important,
but working the strategy on a consistence
is where people fail at...

Remember nothing is impossible
if some one else could do it
then you could as well...

Thanks

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Durell217

8 years ago

I certainly do think both are valuable but technical structure needs to happen before improving the product. This is because technical structure is what the customer sees before even seeing the product. After working on the structure, developing the product to a better level is needed to increase sales and to get returning customers. I believe that technical structure is fundamental so that has to be addressed first.

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Kurt

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Key Seek

I like this forum, but there is an overriding theme that is highly problematic.

There are thread after thread of posters discussing technical structures that will "make $150 a day....get 10k hits....50% conversion..."

These claims are always bereft of substance. The assumption is that as long as your technical structure is sound, it really does not matter what it is that you are selling.

Put simply techniques matter, substance does not matter.

This mind set reminds me of a saying in statistics: "Garbage in, garbage out."

Shouldn't the focus be on the quality of the product? Of course sales strategies are important, but they should not trump product quality, IMO.

To be clear, I am a complete NEWB, and it is very likely that I am out of touch, but shouldn't substance be at the fore?

In Marketing 101 this is known as a "product orientation"...build a better mouse trap. This is far from optimal.

The key to success is being able to reach a market. Having the best buggy whip is one thing, finding people that want to buy buggy whips is another.

Being able to actually reach people is the most essential part of marketing. You must be able to answer the question of where EXACTLY are you going to find customers? It's simple, but it isn't easy.

This doesn't mean that a quality product/service isn't important. However, "quality" can mean a number of things to different people. Are McDonald's hamburgers the best? Probably not to a lot of people. The most likely reasons McDs sells so many hamburgers is that they are fast, consistent and convenient, and not the "best".

IMO, you should find the market, then find the product. It simply doesn't matter how good a product is if no one wants it, or you can't reach the people that do.

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dndoseller

8 years ago

Well sometimes the methods on warrior forum work for an existing online business you have, and sometimes they are a business in and of themselves.

So you really just to to look at each post or WSO on a case by case basis and take what you like, leave the rest.

Yes allot of times you see allot of re-hashed hype on here. But I have made many thousands on dollars over the past 7 years with online marketing and I pretty much learned everything I know from this forum.

So I am very appreciate and I can't complain.

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Kurt

8 years ago

Let me give a real life example...My brother has a friend that owns a food truck. She's smart and hard working and keeps coming up with new and original ideas for food.

However, she is missing the most important thing for her to be successful, and that's a good place to park her food truck where there's (literally) a hungry market. If or when she finally finds a good location, then she'll just need to test and try different ideas. But until she finds a good location, it doesn't matter if her food is any good or not.

Another real life example. A while back I knew a guy. He was a cab driver and saved all his money and bought a sandwich shop in an industrial area in Las Vegas. His shop was only open during lunch hours. Although he bought it from a guy that lost money with the shop, "Dave" made money from it.

Sadly, Dave passed away suddenly. His daughter took over the shop. She lost money. She sold the shop to another guy and he lost money and the shop closed.

4 owners of the same sandwich shop and Dave was the only one that made money. He did something none of the others did...he paid a service to print and deliver his menu to every business in his area.

This service was expensive, but it was Dave's way of reaching his market. None of the other owners were willing to pay for this "expensive" service, and they all lost money and went out of business.

The sandwiches were of the same "quality". The difference was Dave was the only one willing to pay the price to reach his market. If you can't, or don't put your product in front of a "hungry" audience, it doesn't matter how good your sandwiches are.

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Steve L

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Key Seek

I like this forum, but there is an overriding theme that is highly problematic.

There are thread after thread of posters discussing technical structures that will "make $150 a day....get 10k hits....50% conversion..."

These claims are always bereft of substance. The assumption is that as long as your technical structure is sound, it really does not matter what it is that you are selling.

Put simply techniques matter, substance does not matter.

This mind set reminds me of a saying in statistics: "Garbage in, garbage out."

Shouldn't the focus be on the quality of the product? Of course sales strategies are important, but they should not trump product quality, IMO.

To be clear, I am a complete NEWB, and it is very likely that I am out of touch, but shouldn't substance be at the fore?

I agree. Marketing starts with the product. It's not something you can just tack on after the fact.

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Synnuh

8 years ago

I guess "substance" is left open for interpretation.

He's in law enforcement, so he shoots firearms. He's already making affiliate sales of ammo, so he knows what it takes to do it already. He knows the target market he's going after and was asking for more information.

I may not be following along with what you're asking.

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Key Seek

8 years ago

Originally Posted by Synnuh

I guess "substance" is left open for interpretation.

He's in law enforcement, so he shoots firearms. He's already making affiliate sales of ammo, so he knows what it takes to do it already. He knows the target market he's going after and was asking for more information.

I may not be following along with what you're asking.

So all you need is to "shoot firearms?" That is like saying I should be a professional golfer since I miniature golfed once.

I know the market very well. It is bad, very bad right now. Politically and also because of all the shootings. The market is terrible. He would have no chance in a market the veterans are leaving. He would also lose his career in LE. LE is booming.

My friend the former Army Ranger has been shooting, selling, and building guns for 50 years. He left because the federal gov't has nearly ruined the market. The bureaucracy is overwhelming. Everyone thinks a semi auto AR-15 is an "assault" rifle (I have one, it is not). My SWAT team buddy has been shooting for 20 year Another friend shoots IPDE and makes his own bullets. This guy is far from ready for the market, a market that is BAD for guys with decades of experience

.And this is not counting rock bottom prices at gun shows where anyone can sell/buy.

Now law enforcement THAT is a business that is booming! There is good money with good benefits if you don't mind the work. Unfortunately, we need more LE, and that will be the case for a very long time.

Don't give up a good career for one where you will make nothing.

Now, back to the technical stuff: You guys are correct. Even if you have a great idea selling a great product, you still need help from an inter-net marketer and a webmaster/builder. I am learning this the hard way.

My great ideas are nothing if I only get 5 hits a day. Fortunately, I have a professional site nearly done, and some great help offered to my by people on this board.

Thanks

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Key Seek

8 years ago

Hey everyone, I want to acknowledge that this thread has given me some great info.

I have an amateur site with fantastic content. The arguments are brilliant, IMHO.

However, I have no tech skills and the site has been languishing.

Fortunately, I have a good web site that will be launched soon. So yes, the tech and marketing are also important.

Thanks
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JohnMcCabe 8 years ago

Originally Posted by Steve L

I agree. Marketing starts with the product. It's not something you can just tack on after the fact.

No, marketing starts with the market. Not just finding some keyword, but finding a group of people with a shared want that you can reach effectively. Then you find or develop a product that delivers on that want in a mutually profitable way.

If you find the right product (of acceptable quality), you can indeed "just tack it on after the fact." See Kurt's McD example.
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Key Seek

8 years ago

I want to be clear: There have been some great answers on this thread.

I am convinced that, yes, hitting your target audience is in fact extremely important. After thinking about it, I would say that 60% is substance, 40% is hitting your target audience. Of course these numbers are just a simplified heuristic device.

When I post responses to other posts, it may seem like I am a bit combative. The fact is that when I do respond it means that I respect your answer.

Lots of good stuff here for me to think about.

Thanks

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Kurt

8 years ago

Another good example is the TV show "Shark Tank". You see people with "good" products. Some of them have already reached a market. However, what they want from the Sharks is more than just money. They need the Sharks to take their products to large markets.

The Sharks have the expertise and connections to bring products to market and they aren't just looking for "good" products, they are looking for products that have a large market.

There are other important factors, such as production costs, legalities, etc, but it's the Sharks ability to bring products to market is the most valuable factor.

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Money making strategies: Why is the Cart ahead of the Horse?

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