how to make quick money with IM vs. a long term IM business.

by gjabiz 61 replies
End of the year food for thought.

Most popular Warrior Forum thread is what to do if you are desperate.

So, let's talk about making money vs building a business.

It begins with a transaction, an exchange of agreed upon value. Put your TV out front with a for sale sign on it, or run an ad on craigslist for your TV. If it is a decent model with a good price, it will sell within hours, and you have some quick cash. You've made A transaction.

An IM business would normally have (with exceptions) many transactions, for example an eBay store such as goodasnewelectronics (NO affiliation, just an example) which has had nearly 70,000 eBay transactions.

Quick cash = an exchange of value, your TV for cash today.

Can you make money with one off transactions? Of course you can, but the problem often is finding the 'stuff' people want to buy or barter for.

FASTEST way to money is to sell something you already have, get rid of it at a low price and get quick cash. But if you are desperate, the cash goes quickly, you already owe it to someone else before you even get it.

But, the Internet gives you ample opportunity to rinse and repeat the process by buying and selling stuff if you want too. You could sell your TV for 100 dollars, or you could sell your car for several thousand.

So Internet Marketing could be a one off transaction model. Good for quick cash perhaps, but not so good for long term strategy...which is where a business becomes a better way to go.

A business will make either MORE transactions than the Buy-Sell model or it will make BIGGER dollar transactions, but at it's core,

there has to be an agreed upon exchange of VALUE.

A well thought out NEW business, like many of you want to start might begin with

a MARKET. Or a product/service. Arguments over which is better are irrelevant to you, because the WF has many success stories from both methods.

A group of people who BUY stuff is a good place to start
IF
you can create or acquire a product/service which matches what they are buying now.

A product can be a good place to start if there is a DEMAND or one can be created, as in a Fad or novelty item.

You can make money without having a business, but one truth might be you will work harder over time UNLESS you have higher dollar transactions...

OR you can take the time and maybe money to build a business which could be better path for you to take.

So, what do you want to do in 2016?

Build a business?

OR

Just make some Dang Money?

gjabiz

PS. Or maybe both?
#main internet marketing discussion forum #business #long #make #money #quick #term
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  • Profile picture of the author Steve B
    Also, a very important advantage of building a business . . .

    If you plan your business strategy correctly, you will have multiple related products that you can also offer your 1st time customers. If they had a good experience with their first purchase, and liked the product, selling a 2nd, and a 3rd, and a 4th time to that same customer is very possible and you avoid having to convince that customer that you and your products are worthwhile and legitimate.

    People who sell an item for quick money don't have that advantage - it's one sale and you're done. Now you have to find another customer and start the process all over again if you want some more quick cash.

    "Back end sales" as they are called, are typically the lifeblood of a lot of successful online businesses.

    Thanks for the post Gordon.

    Steve
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    • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
      Good point Steve, but this is the Warrior Forum, where thousands come to find ways to make 10 dollars a day or 100 dollars a day.

      They come from around the globe and many lack basic business understanding and perhaps have seen some of the easy peasy set it and forget it copy which sells many on the idea of Internet Marketing in the first place.

      The failure rate of new business start ups is HUGE, one reason is lack of knowledge and the other lack of income at a rate fast enough to sustain their efforts...

      which is where a fast cash strategy can come in handy.

      But even with that, again, so many are not suited to be business owners, with all of it's requirements, so they may be interested in using IM to simply put some moolah in their pockets NOW.

      Thanks for your always good comments.

      gjabiz


      Originally Posted by Steve B View Post

      Also, a very important advantage of building a business . . .

      If you plan your business strategy correctly, you will have multiple related products that you can also offer your 1st time customers. If they had a good experience with their first purchase, and liked the product, selling a 2nd, and a 3rd, and a 4th time to that same customer is very possible and you avoid having to convince that customer that you and your products are worthwhile and legitimate.

      People who sell an item for quick money don't have that advantage - it's one sale and you're done. Now you have to find another customer and start the process all over again if you want some more quick cash.

      "Back end sales" as they are called, are typically the lifeblood of a lot of successful online businesses.

      Thanks for the post Gordon.

      Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author Steve B
        Originally Posted by gjabiz View Post

        . . . so many are not suited to be business owners, with all of it's requirements, so they may be interested in using IM to simply put some moolah in their pockets NOW.

        I agree totally . . . and I believe there is an "online money making solution" for all the folks that find themselves in this category.

        I have always believed there is a money making power or skill or idea in every one of us. We all have experience and are good at something.

        And there are ways to monetize our experience online without having to create a full-fledged business and become its owner. Those ways are out there and a topic for another discussion, but the Internet is the vehicle and newbies should understand that earning income online can be a daily occurrence even if you can't own a "typical" business.

        Anyone can build an email audience. Anyone can produce content (even if you can't write - think "public domain"). Anyone can set up a "buy" button and deliver a digital good.

        Well, enough of that, I didn't mean to stray so far off the thread purpose.

        Steve
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        • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
          Originally Posted by Steve B View Post

          I agree totally . . . and I believe there is an "online money making solution" for all the folks that find themselves in this category.

          I have always believed there is a money making power or skill or idea in every one of us. We all have experience and are good at something.

          And there are ways to monetize our experience online without having to create a full-fledged business and become its owner. Those ways are out there and a topic for another discussion, but the Internet is the vehicle and newbies should understand that earning income online can be a daily occurrence even if you can't own a "typical" business.

          Anyone can build an email audience. Anyone can produce content (even if you can't write - think "public domain"). Anyone can set up a "buy" button and deliver a digital good.

          Well, enough of that, I didn't mean to stray so far off the thread purpose.

          Steve
          No, this is the topic of discussion. No need for another one, it is about making money and/or building a business.

          The "typical" business is one which involves many transactions over time, or a few big transactions. A business requires time, or attention, unless it is absentee owned, which is a viable way for those with money to invest.

          The "buy" button you refer to, or the email, needs eyeballs, a function of a business, but making money could require only one set of eyes on the offer, which may be the distinguishing feature of the difference.

          Warriors want to know how to make money.

          I say this judged on the posts of the last year, and they can make money without having to start a business, and I gave them one way to do it

          with the buy/sell model.

          It could be an ebook with the only promotion being the FREE sig file of the WF. In June 2014, I sold over 1,000 dollars in 24 days of a 10 dollar ebook using only my sig here. Almost anyone could do that. And it could be done easily without starting or keeping a business going.

          So, let's discuss those ways here, and not defer them to a discussion for another time, eh?

          gjabiz
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  • Profile picture of the author Durell217
    I always recommend people to start a business because it has much more value than money alone. It's also a learning experience that trains you to think in a more precise more creative way. Buisinesses have to constantly think about better ways to make profit since there is competition. The plan is always changing to adapt to today's market. So you learn to think outside the box which I think is an essential skill to have success.
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    • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
      Originally Posted by Durell217 View Post

      I always recommend people to start a business because it has much more value than money alone. It's also a learning experience that trains you to think in a more precise more creative way. Buisinesses have to constantly think about better ways to make profit since there is competition. The plan is always changing to adapt to today's market. So you learn to think outside the box which I think is an essential skill to have success.
      Who are these "people" you recommend this advice to?

      The HUGE 99% failure rate of new starts in business suggests MOST people are not suited to start and are incapable of building a business, which are most of the Warrior Forum visitors, so your advice isn't very good for them, is it?

      gjabiz
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  • Profile picture of the author ITshakil
    yes. you are right. I agree with you
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelAppleton
    This is something I have discussed many time with other marketers.

    An online business is a 'business' as needs to be treated as one. The idea of setting up a website or building a list a 100-200 people and making a fortune are the reason so many people fail to make it in this business.

    Each and every online venture needs to be nurtured and worked on in order to be successful.

    This isn't to say you will not make any money over night but in my experience the long game should always be the focuses.
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    • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
      Originally Posted by MichaelAppleton View Post

      ... but in my experience the long game should always be the focuses.
      And this is one point I'm trying to make.

      Many, if not most, Warriors speak from THEIR experience, for you the long game is YOUR focus...but so many come here with a need to pay their bills TODAY, they can't think in the long term.

      So, maybe a combination of a long range PLAN, which is lacking in most starts, along with some quick cash could help the Warrior sustain their efforts.

      Also, very few Warriors start with a plan, and that is, perhaps, why it takes them years to build a business instead of a few months.

      gjabiz
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      • Profile picture of the author discrat
        I always thought it was a sad commentary on the incessant denigration from the 'better than thou' group here at WF towards the small time players or newbies looking to make just a few bucks a day.

        In many parts of the World, just a few bucks a day can mean the difference between living on the streets or surviving with shelter over heads.

        Just because someone does not the desire or strive to make100K+ a year as a goal does not make them lazy or does not make their Lives any less fulfilling.

        Some people would be happy to make $1,000 a month ...
        and whose to say that makes their lives any less enriching ??

        I have always admired and embraced the somewhat duel personality the WF takes on as a "Money Making Forum" and a "Business Building Forum"

        It is quite a unique,dynamic, and accommodating one that we should all embrace and strive to "cement" as our legacy


        - Robert Andrew
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        • Profile picture of the author Money Mercenary
          Originally Posted by discrat View Post

          I always thought it was a sad commentary on the incessant denigration from the 'better than thou' group here at WF towards the small time players or newbies looking to make just a few bucks a day.

          In many parts of the World, just a few bucks a day can mean the difference between living on the streets or surviving with shelter over heads.

          Just because someone does not the desire or strive to make100K+ a year as a goal does not make them lazy or does not make their Lives any less fulfilling.

          Some people would be happy to make $1,000 a month ...
          and whose to say that makes their lives any less enriching ??

          I have always admired and embraced the somewhat duel personality the WF takes on as a "Money Making Forum" and a "Business Building Forum"

          It is quite a unique,dynamic, and accommodating one that we should all embrace and strive to "cement" as our legacy


          - Robert Andrew
          I agree that's the best part of WF. The duality of business and a "quick buck". Personally I think that's the best part of making money online. It can be done quickly if you want. You can work hard, make a buck then get out without investing too much. Or you can build an impressive multi-income business. The opportunity is endless.
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      • Profile picture of the author explicitjoe
        Originally Posted by gjabiz View Post

        And this is one point I'm trying to make.

        Many, if not most, Warriors speak from THEIR experience, for you the long game is YOUR focus...but so many come here with a need to pay their bills TODAY, they can't think in the long term.

        So, maybe a combination of a long range PLAN, which is lacking in most starts, along with some quick cash could help the Warrior sustain their efforts.

        Also, very few Warriors start with a plan, and that is, perhaps, why it takes them years to build a business instead of a few months.

        gjabiz
        Establishment of a stabilized long term IM business should be our goal.
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        • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
          Originally Posted by explicitjoe View Post

          Establishment of a stabilized long term IM business should be our goal.
          See Joe, I'm attempting to take experience out of it, that is personal experience and look at it from mass or over time experience.

          Statements like yours, or all of the ones that use; should, all, most, etc., don't fit everyone. I battle against absolutes, like should be our goal. Why?

          Because you have made it yours, and although I agree with your post about planning, a little how to goes a long way, as opposed to telling people what they SHOULD do, get it?

          gjabiz
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          • Profile picture of the author Steve B
            So maybe there should be separate sections of the forum(?)

            One for those building businesses and a different section for those trying to make quick income. Why? Because they seem to be different "animals" with different goals, approaches, strategies, methods, and mindsets.

            There is a problem with that, however . . . most folks just starting out experience information overload as it is . . . and I can just see this separation of approaches confusing newbies even more.

            Maybe a smart and experienced marketer (hint, hint Gordon) should create a WSO entitled something like "29 Brainless Ways to Make Fast Cash Online Today Without the Hassles of Setting Up a Business!"

            Steve
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            • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
              Originally Posted by Steve B View Post

              So maybe there should be separate sections of the forum(?)

              One for those building businesses and a different section for those trying to make quick income. Why? Because they seem to be different "animals" with different goals, approaches, strategies, methods, and mindsets.

              There is a problem with that, however . . . most folks just starting out experience information overload as it is . . . and I can just see this separation of approaches confusing newbies even more.

              Maybe a smart and experienced marketer (hint, hint Gordon) should create a WSO entitled something like "29 Brainless Ways to Make Fast Cash Online Today Without the Hassles of Setting Up a Business!"

              Steve
              You teach people about business, so you are business oriented. You earn from convincing people to learn.

              As for the forum, Internet Marketing. Question:

              Is selling on eBay IM?
              Is selling on craigslist IM?
              Is selling to google groups or Facebook groups IM?

              If the answer is yes, then there is no need to separate those seeking to learn either how to make money or those who want to have a business is there?

              MOST folks just starting out at anything are clueless, are they not? They may bring education, experience or even expertise to the table, so they may start with an advantage over most...but people like you, who offer to teach them about business for a fee, help them overcome information overload and get focus.

              My last WSO was four years ago, I believe it might have been my fourth in 10 years or when the WF began offering them.

              I have already given TWO ways to make money.
              ONE by buying and selling, as in the TV example.
              TWO by using WF sig file to sell a specialty report.

              Will be glad to offer more.

              There are 1000's of such reports now, many WSO's.

              Where we apparently differ on this subject is, I think eBay, Facebook, craigslist, local newspaper sites...places where anyone can offer something or many things for sale...

              IS

              a part of Internet Marketing. You disagree? Seems like it.

              We have the Off Line forum here already, and as of today, it holds the best discussions and offers up the best WF advice on business AND on just making money.

              I already stated in the OP that a person can do both, why not make some money, to FUND one's further studies.

              One or two Warriors may make enough quick cash to be able to afford your private membership site where they can learn from an experienced marketer like yourself on how to do a business. Everyone wins.

              gjabiz
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  • Profile picture of the author Randall Magwood
    A long term online business is preferred in my case. With the short term "quick money" approach, what are you building? How will you manage 30 sites with the same premise if you can't even succeed with 1? What about backend marketing? Where will you get the time to create products, sales materials, and do advertising/promotion without an actual marketing staff on your payroll?
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    • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
      Originally Posted by Randall Magwood View Post

      A long term online business is preferred in my case. With the short term "quick money" approach, what are you building? How will you manage 30 sites with the same premise if you can't even succeed with 1? What about backend marketing? Where will you get the time to create products, sales materials, and do advertising/promotion without an actual marketing staff on your payroll?
      In YOUR CASE. It is your experience. With a short term quick money approach you don't need to be building anything, you are making money NOW.

      What and how one uses the money is what matters. Maybe some invest their NOW money into an offline business and own it remotely, or they are absentee owners.

      30 sites? Who needs 30 sites? Again, if you are speaking from experience, it is the way you have chosen your IM, but many many people, going back to 1997 have built ONE site, and have streamlined and automated their processes to the point of having TIME and Money and not being stuck with having to even think about it, let alone 30 sites. YIKES!

      gjabiz
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    • Profile picture of the author explicitjoe
      The high rate of failure experienced by start-ups is basically a problem of planning. Like most people have pointed out here.

      Most start ups also neglect the issues of money management. Some of them make money at the beginning, but they lose it because of financial illiteracy.

      If you really want to succeed, you should really learn and plan extensively.

      Joseph Sam
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  • Profile picture of the author SFNY
    For me, it's always build a business and even if it's not, always treat whatever you do like a business.

    I'd love to share my experiences with both but I'm not sure if this thread is for that. I'm an entrepreneur who has built small business, online business, and did some small IM "hustles." What I will say is that in 2016 im launching what will become an authority in my niche and in not stopping until I get there. You have to want it and I want it bad!
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    • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
      Originally Posted by SFNY View Post

      For me, it's always build a business and even if it's not, always treat whatever you do like a business.

      I'd love to share my experiences with both but I'm not sure if this thread is for that. I'm an entrepreneur who has built small business, online business, and did some small IM "hustles." What I will say is that in 2016 im launching what will become an authority in my niche and in not stopping until I get there. You have to want it and I want it bad!
      I started this thread for discussion purposes, a discussion of making money and/or building a business using Internet Marketing, and with the knowledge we are at the Warrior Forum.

      There are tens of thousands of people come here seeking HOW to make money information. They can (and in many cases, probably should) build a business or they can simply make money without a business.

      You said; "You have to want it and want it bad!"

      It has been the successful Entrepreneur's mantra forever, the fire in the gut is what puts many over the top.

      Within that saying are the problems most Warriors face,

      #1 What to WANT.
      #2 And what is "bad"? Many will say, to do WHATEVER it takes.

      In the classic book, THINK AND GROW RICH, Napoleon Hill states DESIRE (the want) is the starting point.

      We see here daily, and have for the last couple of years, the desire, the want and often the NEED is how to make money, quickly.

      It tells us experienced marketers the person doesn't know what they want.

      They have an idea, a concept and perhaps the soul consuming desperation we find in the most popular threads.

      We don't see a majority of ENTREPRENEURS here, a handful may become that way with some success.

      But we don't see it in the real world either, just because a person owns a business doesn't make them an Entrepreneur, if you use risk/reward as the standard bearer for Entrepreneurship. Many business owners are just clerks, who happen to run a business selling what some people want and or need.

      What we do see here at the WF is...

      MY way, I did it, I'm going to, what worked for me is, etc., etc.

      One size business does not suit all of us and just because it took any given
      Warrior four years to figure it out for them, doesn't mean they have created a blueprint everyone can follow, otherwise we'd have ONE master WSO.

      Lots of new business opportunities, especially for those with some money to invest in them. In lieu of money, TIME is often spent learning and building.

      Just as there are lots of new (and old) business ops, there are also a lot of money making opportunities, such as buying and selling, as in the TV example.

      Today, with sites like Fivver, Advice Network and even the Freelancer groups, there is an opportunity to do a "gig", a one off money making opportunity. How much one makes depends on what sort of gig they do and for whom.


      A busker in NYC can pay their rent with their music, while Taylor Swift makes millions with her music, In IM that would translate to ...

      just do what Taylor Swift does.

      HA! A freelance entrepreneur (small e) can make money all day long without having to build or tend to a business.

      And I agree with everyone who has said building a business is a wiser course of action, for many...but not for most HERE.

      But knowing what to want, and the why behind the want is the crux of the problem of desperation and lack of IM success.

      The best plan in the world for building a tall skyscraper isn't going to do the guy in the tent much good, if he lacks the want and desire to build one.

      All discussion on this thread is a part of building a business vs making money and all opinions are welcome, there is no right or wrong answer.

      I'm just trying to create a dialog where we can get to the crux of the problem and assist those, so in 2016 we don't have to see the same posts we saw every week in the last 2 years. Wouldn't that benefit us all?

      gjabiz
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      • Profile picture of the author Steve B
        Originally Posted by gjabiz View Post

        I'm just trying to create a dialog where we can get to the crux of the problem and assist those, so in 2016 we don't have to see the same posts we saw every week in the last 2 years. Wouldn't that benefit us all?

        Yes it would.

        But personally . . . I don't see the barrage of "quickest, easiest, and least effort" type questions slowing down anytime soon.

        My guess is, most people coming here would opt for the "quick cash now" route over the more long term "build a business" approach. I'm not saying that one is more noble or right or preferable for everyone than the other. It's more of a commentary on where this forum is headed given the majority of threads/posts that we see today.

        Yes, I wish this was a place for serious discussion about online business building and related strategies rather than making a fast buck.

        Steve
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      • Profile picture of the author SFNY
        I totally agree and I've done both. I would love to share some of my experiences in building 2 prior business that I started - both my own brands vs my experience this year with IM. Maybe I'll write a blog post on the new warrior forum blog feature and share it.

        I think the biggest issue I've had in the past and I'm sure a lot of other people have had comes down to simply deciding. Yep - deciding! Everyone has methods that work. Some have had success with methods that work, while some have had experiences with similar methods that do not work. There are a million ways to make money online but some struggle to decide on the "what." I think that's where entrepreneur benefit. Our gut guides us the right route.

        For someone that has never been there and is new to business and IM, the most important step is deciding what route you want to go first - Step 1. Do you know what market you want to be in? Do you want to buy low and sell high? Do you want to create your own products? Do you want customers? Do you not want customers? What kind of products do you want to sell, digital or physical? Do you want to provide information? Can you sell a service? Do you want to start your own brand and manufacture? Do you want to make money promoting other people's products? Are you looking to make a buck and scatter. What do you want?

        Essentially it comes down to knowing what you want to do. Decide and taking action. The methods come with experimentation - at least that's what I found out for myself. My biggest hurdle was always deciding on what route I wanted to take.

        Step 1 - Decide on the style of online business that is right for you.

        I spoke with an old mentor not to long ago about this topic. He said many people don't even know the difference between the two. He sent me a couple of questions also that always help... I'll share them once I get home.

        Great thread though!

        Originally Posted by gjabiz View Post

        I started this thread for discussion purposes, a discussion of making money and/or building a business using Internet Marketing, and with the knowledge we are at the Warrior Forum.

        There are tens of thousands of people come here seeking HOW to make money information. They can (and in many cases, probably should) build a business or they can simply make money without a business.

        You said; "You have to want it and want it bad!"

        It has been the successful Entrepreneur's mantra forever, the fire in the gut is what puts many over the top.

        Within that saying are the problems most Warriors face,

        #1 What to WANT.
        #2 And what is "bad"? Many will say, to do WHATEVER it takes.

        In the classic book, THINK AND GROW RICH, Napoleon Hill states DESIRE (the want) is the starting point.

        We see here daily, and have for the last couple of years, the desire, the want and often the NEED is how to make money, quickly.

        It tells us experienced marketers the person doesn't know what they want.

        They have an idea, a concept and perhaps the soul consuming desperation we find in the most popular threads.

        We don't see a majority of ENTREPRENEURS here, a handful may become that way with some success.

        But we don't see it in the real world either, just because a person owns a business doesn't make them an Entrepreneur, if you use risk/reward as the standard bearer for Entrepreneurship. Many business owners are just clerks, who happen to run a business selling what some people want and or need.

        What we do see here at the WF is...

        MY way, I did it, I'm going to, what worked for me is, etc., etc.

        One size business does not suit all of us and just because it took any given
        Warrior four years to figure it out for them, doesn't mean they have created a blueprint everyone can follow, otherwise we'd have ONE master WSO.

        Lots of new business opportunities, especially for those with some money to invest in them. In lieu of money, TIME is often spent learning and building.

        Just as there are lots of new (and old) business ops, there are also a lot of money making opportunities, such as buying and selling, as in the TV example.

        Today, with sites like Fivver, Advice Network and even the Freelancer groups, there is an opportunity to do a "gig", a one off money making opportunity. How much one makes depends on what sort of gig they do and for whom.


        A busker in NYC can pay their rent with their music, while Taylor Swift makes millions with her music, In IM that would translate to ...

        just do what Taylor Swift does.

        HA! A freelance entrepreneur (small e) can make money all day long without having to build or tend to a business.

        And I agree with everyone who has said building a business is a wiser course of action, for many...but not for most HERE.

        But knowing what to want, and the why behind the want is the crux of the problem of desperation and lack of IM success.

        The best plan in the world for building a tall skyscraper isn't going to do the guy in the tent much good, if he lacks the want and desire to build one.

        All discussion on this thread is a part of building a business vs making money and all opinions are welcome, there is no right or wrong answer.

        I'm just trying to create a dialog where we can get to the crux of the problem and assist those, so in 2016 we don't have to see the same posts we saw every week in the last 2 years. Wouldn't that benefit us all?

        gjabiz
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      • Profile picture of the author DWolfe
        Originally Posted by gjabiz View Post


        I'm just trying to create a dialog where we can get to the crux of the problem and assist those, so in 2016 we don't have to see the same posts we saw every week in the last 2 years. Wouldn't that benefit us all?

        gjabiz
        Your not going to see much of a change of these types of posts when most of the newbies join here think they will discover great riches and the e-z life style without any effort. Since most of them are coming from overseas now instead of the US. They don't know what to post, so they throw out a quick question. How many ever read the rules when they get here ? Or use the Search button ?

        If they come from India, or somewhere else thinking this place can make them rich, they most likely do not know what to ask a question or solve a problem. Since many don't have any real knowledge of what a business is ! The quick one off projects is just better suited for them, till they learn new skills. The original members here had formal educations in the US and Europe have learned better critical thinking and analytical skills that seem to be lacking for most of the newbies.

        How do I make $10.00 or $100.00 in US dollars is a lot of money for them. How many times are they told to join fiverr or the other freelance mills to make money,by some poster that is happy with that money? Because they would consider that great money in there country and better than their current income. Their almost needs to be two more sections of this forum.

        One would be for someone that wants to start and make a quick buck, and another for the business oriented person like Steve B. was talking about. Gordon some of the stuff you offered last year would help the newbies. The stuff is good quality like the CashCow method you had offered in 2014 and your quick report in the fall of 2014 of 10 quick methods to make $'s before the Holidays. Those would be more in tuned to the current crop that will continue to come here. If they desire to build a business another section might be needed.. In one final comment the Desperate thread has gone down hill the last time I visited it a while back. IMHO
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        • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
          Originally Posted by DWolfe View Post

          Your not going to see much of a change of these types of posts when most of the newbies join here think they will discover great riches and the e-z life style without any effort. Since most of them are coming from overseas now instead of the US. They don't know what to post, so they throw out a quick question. How many ever read the rules when they get here ? Or use the Search button ?

          If they come from India, or somewhere else thinking this place can make them rich, they most likely do not know what to ask a question or solve a problem. Since many don't have any real knowledge of what a business is ! The quick one off projects is just better suited for them, till they learn new skills. The original members here had formal educations in the US and Europe have learned better critical thinking and analytical skills that seem to be lacking for most of the newbies.

          How do I make $10.00 or $100.00 in US dollars is a lot of money for them. How many times are they told to join fiverr or the other freelance mills to make money,by some poster that is happy with that money? Because they would consider that great money in there country and better than their current income. Their almost needs to be two more sections of this forum.

          One would be for someone that wants to start and make a quick buck, and another for the business oriented person like Steve B. was talking about. Gordon some of the stuff you offered last year would help the newbies. The stuff is good quality like the CashCow method you had offered in 2014 and your quick report in the fall of 2014 of 10 quick methods to make $'s before the Holidays. Those would be more in tuned to the current crop that will continue to come here. If they desire to build a business another section might be needed.. In one final comment the Desperate thread has gone down hill the last time I visited it a while back. IMHO
          Thanks DWolfe,

          In the Copywriting sub forum, experienced copywriters harp on the message to market match.

          Approx. 250,000 new members (not sure what that means in actual people) but for sure tens of thousands come here from Search Engine, or stumble across it some way or another.

          Although it has been cleaned up slightly, the "voice" of the WF is

          MAKE MONEY with IM.

          And the WSO section, where the secrets are promoted, is one of the first places they visit and see what? Offer after offer of promised money. So their watch begins (GOT fan).

          Yes, most lack education, but even back in the glory days of the WF, there was a lot of educated stupidity, like banking your future on Google Algorithms and such.

          But the message here is, you can make money with IM.

          But what is IM? The truth is, anyone COULD make money with an Internet connection, but the fact is, most don't.

          There are 100's of new WSO type copywriters who feast off the inexperienced and under educated parts of the world who are just trying to better themselves.

          They don't know or understand we use psychology and manipulation on them to lust for our products, especially the ones which offer an easy to follow blueprint or plan, the just do what I did to get what I got routine.

          And this market is a I WANT TO MAKE MONEY market, it is not an I want to start a business market.

          Yet, they are served up by the experienced IMer and WF oldster, the same routine...start a business.

          Learn. Study. Apply, stay with it, do what I did.

          From one perspective it is a total message to market mismatch.

          The shiny object WSO which makes a promise of quick money, easy operation and little time involved are ones which get bought over and over simply because they (noobs) don't yet understand things... yet. It may take them time and loss of money before they see the light.

          And yes, we will continue to see the same type of posts the same questions but much of that falls on the shoulders of the owners, who operate it their way to get maximum profits out of their investment. Understood.

          But, my opinion, is a new person should never have to ask the question, "Where do I begin?"

          Because a simple pdf file, written in several languages which explains what IM is,
          should be the starting point,
          when someone joins, they should automatically get a pdf sent or posted which explains the rules, has a FAQ about the WF, answers the most asked questions and gives the new person a chance to explore what IM method might best suit them.

          So, when you have a big stadium, invite everybody in off the streets, and they see people kicking balls everywhere...and there are no guidelines, no arrows to follow, no guides...

          why would anyone expect anything but chaos?

          We who have been here the longest kicking the ball get irritated by the new guy wanting to know how and where to kick the thing, which goal should they be aiming for.

          The reason we will see the same old questions and frustrations is simple, the stadium owners are making money with things as they are, and, perhaps, can't see the benefit of getting a newbie off to a better start??

          gjabiz
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          • Profile picture of the author Steve B
            Originally Posted by gjabiz View Post

            The reason we will see the same old questions and frustrations is simple, the stadium owners are making money with things as they are, and, perhaps, can't see the benefit of getting a newbie off to a better start??

            I don't see the "stadium owners" as having any responsibility for guiding their new members toward the right questions to ask. Freelancer is a company with a profit motive and they can do whatever they want in their approach to running the WF in order to make money. They bought it and they can run it in whatever fashion they choose.

            I believe it's the responsibility of the entrepreneur (or money seeker - whatever you want to call the new member) to find the right questions to ask without guidance from the stadium owners.

            I agree with your suggestion, it would be helpful for the owners to create:

            Originally Posted by gjabiz View Post

            . . . a simple pdf file, written in several languages which explains what IM is, should be the starting point, when someone joins, they should automatically get a pdf sent or posted which explains the rules, has a FAQ about the WF, answers the most asked questions and gives the new person a chance to explore what IM method might best suit them.
            Doing so is what you or I would do as experienced business advocates. But again, the Freelancer team is here to make money and it's obvious that changes suggested by members for the good of the forum most often fall on deaf ears. You've got moderators here that joined the forum in 2015 and have 5 posts to their name. No offense to these guys personally, but they are just like all the other newbies that come here without a clue about what it takes to start a business or make a few bucks online.

            I guess I believe that the responsibility to "find your way," to "ask the right questions," and to figure out the money-getting puzzle lies squarely with the seeker . . . and yes, most never figure out what has to be done.

            The entitlement generation thinks somebody else "owes" them the benefit of a true entrepreneur's hard work (all their secrets) . . . lazy deadbeats would never even read the "welcome package of valuable beginnings" that you're suggesting . . . and the average quick cash seeker would probably not have the patience or humility to accept and try the road to beginning in IM that you've outlined.

            Just my opinion, of course.

            Thanks for the thread, it's certainly provocative and worth discussing.

            Steve
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            • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
              Originally Posted by Steve B View Post

              I don't see the "stadium owners" as having any responsibility for guiding their new members toward the right questions to ask. Freelancer is a company with a profit motive and they can do whatever they want in their approach to running the WF in order to make money. They bought it and they can run it in whatever fashion they choose.

              I believe it's the responsibility of the entrepreneur (or money seeker - whatever you want to call the new member) to find the right questions to ask without guidance from the stadium owners.

              I agree with your suggestion, it would be helpful for the owners to create:



              Doing so is what you or I would do as experienced business advocates. But again, the Freelancer team is here to make money and it's obvious that changes suggested by members for the good of the forum most often fall on deaf ears. You've got moderators here that joined the forum in 2015 and have 5 posts to their name. No offense to these guys personally, but they are just like all the other newbies that come here without a clue about what it takes to start a business or make a few bucks online.

              I guess I believe that the responsibility to "find your way," to "ask the right questions," and to figure out the money-getting puzzle lies squarely with the seeker . . . and yes, most never figure out what has to be done.

              The entitlement generation thinks somebody else "owes" them the benefit of a true entrepreneur's hard work (all their secrets) . . . lazy deadbeats would never even read the "welcome package of valuable beginnings" that you're suggesting . . . and the average quick cash seeker would probably not have the patience or humility to accept and try the road to beginning in IM that you've outlined.

              Just my opinion, of course.

              Thanks for the thread, it's certainly provocative and worth discussing.

              Steve
              Seems to be a spurious post Steve.

              I have for two years written about the owners being able to do what they want, of course it is theirs. To do with as they want.

              But if you want to continue to exchange opinions, I'm game, so mine:

              There is NO such thing as the Entitlement generation.
              You are hung up on what you think an Entrepreneur is (or should be), and have and will continue to advocate for building a business, because that is what you do, sell help on building one. That's great, for you.

              I don't presume to know what newbies would or wouldn't do, you apparently assume many (if not most?) are lazy deadbeats?

              30 years ago before Internet Marketing, lazy deadbeats didn't make it or even read those books and courses on how to make money either, including the ones they paid for.

              People come to the WF from around the world because Freelancer has operations around the world, and I don't project my American values on these less fortunate countries where knowledge of capitalism may have been blocked for many years.

              They come looking for answers, and MY assumption is, there are just as many sincere folk as there are YOUR "entitled" deadbeats.

              So, I address the general population of sincere seekers and don't concern myself with what people less sincere choose to do with the advice.

              Freelancer and WF really don't need your protection Steve, anyone who has been here before the sale of WF knows and understands it is piece of a public traded company who have shareholders to report to...

              and that means, as it does in any business, the bottom line is the top concern.

              I'm sure your Entrepreneur teachings at your private member site includes the idea of bringing value to your customers, does it not?

              My suggestion to the Freelancer group is just that, one way THEY could bring more value to their potential customers too.

              But, let's continue our opinions, shall we?

              gjabiz
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              • Profile picture of the author Steve B
                Originally Posted by gjabiz View Post

                Seems to be a spurious post Steve.

                When my posts become spurious it's time for me to move on. I will vacate your thread with this closing thought.

                All I can speak from is my voice of experience in 40+ years of economic development and small business creation in the United States. I understand I am biased in my education, moral beliefs (which I feel are an important part of business), and understanding of how to make money and can not totally put myself in the place of those that come to the WF looking for a quick money fix and someone to hold their hand until they are successful. I try to be honest in my advice and mostly courteous in my responses. Personally, I wish the WF was run differently; but neither management nor most people here on the forum see the world as I do and that's fine by me.

                Thanks for the thread Gordon.

                Steve
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                • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
                  Originally Posted by Steve B View Post

                  When my posts become spurious it's time for me to move on. I will vacate your thread with this closing thought.

                  All I can speak from is my voice of experience in 40+ years of economic development and small business creation in the United States. I understand I am biased in my education, moral beliefs (which I feel are an important part of business), and understanding of how to make money and can not totally put myself in the place of those that come to the WF looking for a quick money fix and someone to hold their hand until they are successful. I try to be honest in my advice and mostly courteous in my responses. Personally, I wish the WF was run differently; but neither management nor most people here on the forum see the world as I do and that's fine by me.

                  Thanks for the thread Gordon.

                  Steve
                  Spurious to me, and that was a maybe.

                  Hate to see you leave the thread, you bring a quality view, and I would not hesitate to refer someone interested in building a business to your site.

                  You do bring up a point.

                  The WF was once upon a time a place predominately American and Western Europe, countries where capitalism and free enterprise and Entrepreneurship are taught and studied.

                  Freelancer does business in many parts of the world, and so we have seen an influx of new people from places which may not have the great teachings of free enterprise we Americans have enjoyed.

                  I DO think building a business is a better plan, for the long haul.

                  But, when you have the most read thread as what to do if desperate, it speaks to the longings of many new, and old, Warriors.

                  There is not a Yellow Brick road to follow, albeit many seem to be offered in the WSO section.

                  IM is more like the Los Angeles freeway near the Airport at rush hour. Or Union Station in NYC on a playoff Friday night...both very crowded places of CHAOS.

                  I have no issue with the building of a business, and I encourage all to do so, but, at the same time I acknowledge the changes of the WF...

                  the more International flavor it has now...

                  and the needs and wants of thousands of people who do not have a background in business, but simply want to make some money, ten bux or 50 bux or 100 bux a day. And they get lost, frustrated, and even spend money they can't afford to lose, and YES

                  it is their responsibility...

                  But they are unfamiliar with our ways of persuasion and writing copy, and in many cases are unsuited for a business...

                  let's provide those folks with ways to make money, if they choose to do so, which in turn could lead to them wanting to learn more, to understand the processes we are so used to and have been with us since childhood.

                  Let's help them get some money to invest in their education and to a point where they know WHY and HOW to build a business, rather than the useless advice of

                  build a list
                  work hard
                  stay with it
                  sell to your list, etc., etc., and etc.

                  Anyhow, the thread has served its purpose, to shine some light on OPTIONS, not everyone needs or wants to build a business in IM

                  but IM, in the larger context can also be a way to produce some much needed NOW income for those in need today.

                  The ideal would be (for me) people use the fast cash they could make, and plow it back into a business, to plant the seeds which will some day become the harvests of great profits.

                  I'm not arguing against business building, just saying, its not for everyone.

                  Just my "worldly" view.

                  gjabiz
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                  • Profile picture of the author Oziboomer
                    Originally Posted by gjabiz View Post

                    IM is more like the Los Angeles freeway near the Airport at rush hour. Or Union Station in NYC on a playoff Friday night...both very crowded places of CHAOS.
                    Yes....

                    but note how the traffic parts for the vehicle with the red and blue lights flashing and the sirens sounding.

                    I think people need to realise that they need to be the ones who are focussed on rescuing, saving, recuperating, rebuilding and so on....

                    They need to be the drivers who plough through the chaos and who people hear coming....

                    ... that two-tone wail...

                    ..that rushes past you whilst you are stuck in the quagmire.

                    The drivers who others say "Where did they come from"

                    There are so many successful IM people out there and I've seen many rise and fall...but one thing is consistent with the risers...

                    They do something other who fail don't.

                    Do you know what they do?

                    There is some helpful advice on this thread....

                    http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...sses-fail.html
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                    • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
                      Originally Posted by Oziboomer View Post

                      Yes....

                      but note how the traffic parts for the vehicle with the red and blue lights flashing and the sirens sounding.

                      I think people need to realise that they need to be the ones who are focussed on rescuing, saving, recuperating, rebuilding and so on....

                      They need to be the drivers who plough through the chaos and who people hear coming....

                      ... that two-tone wail...

                      ..that rushes past you whilst you are stuck in the quagmire.

                      The drivers who others say "Where did they come from"

                      There are so many successful IM people out there and I've seen many rise and fall...but one thing is consistent with the risers...

                      They do something other who fail don't.

                      Do you know what they do?

                      There is some helpful advice on this thread....

                      http://www.warriorforum.com/offline-...sses-fail.html
                      Do they WORK? And keep working until they "arrive"? Tim Ferris (the only guru big enough to be on WordPress VIP) will be sad to hear it takes more than four hours a week to BUILD a business, which has all those spreadsheets and such.

                      Before the annual budget, some need the monthly check book balance to be above 0.00

                      gjabiz
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                      • Profile picture of the author Oziboomer
                        Originally Posted by gjabiz View Post

                        Before the annual budget, some need the monthly check book balance to be above 0.00
                        What's a check book?

                        Is that where you get up early and exercise first - check

                        Eat healthy - check

                        Start work - check

                        Produce results - check

                        Oh sh*t...got to go surfing now.....

                        When I get back the Paypal account will be brimming with monay....

                        I promise. OK
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                        • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
                          Originally Posted by Oziboomer View Post

                          What's a check book?

                          Is that where you get up early and exercise first - check

                          Eat healthy - check

                          Start work - check

                          Produce results - check

                          Oh sh*t...got to go surfing now.....

                          When I get back the Paypal account will be brimming with monay....

                          I promise. OK
                          Surfing? Must be part of the syndicate then.

                          One thing about the off line forum, which you linked to, is

                          most of the regular posters are businessmen. They own and operate a business and it appears that most (of the ones who take issue with making money) are pretty much of a mind set that thinks business...

                          and all that comes along with it as in Jason's post...
                          is the ONLY real way to think of IM.

                          And I have repeatedly agreed with the business idea, build a business.

                          Yet, there are those, numbering into the millions perhaps, who don't have the education, knowledge and experience to start a business.

                          Like the Nigerian sports bookie, they may need some income quickly, and as he suggested, throw up a mini site and start generating some cash while or even before you begin to think of a business.

                          The surfer dude IMer is a classic and several were spawned right here, and back then they "faked it til they made it"...so maybe some of that surfing was done online??

                          With so many surfer lifestyle WSO's and Clickbank offers, is it really a wonder why so many have these easy peasy ez money via IM concepts?

                          Sure, businessmen should absolutely remain focused on their business, the other 80% of the Warriors may just want to make 10 to 50 bux a day.

                          gjabiz
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                • Profile picture of the author rgesm
                  Originally Posted by Steve B View Post

                  When my posts become spurious it's time for me to move on. I will vacate your thread with this closing thought.

                  All I can speak from is my voice of experience in 40+ years of economic development and small business creation in the United States. I understand I am biased in my education, moral beliefs (which I feel are an important part of business), and understanding of how to make money and can not totally put myself in the place of those that come to the WF looking for a quick money fix and someone to hold their hand until they are successful. I try to be honest in my advice and mostly courteous in my responses. Personally, I wish the WF was run differently; but neither management nor most people here on the forum see the world as I do and that's fine by me.

                  Thanks for the thread Gordon.

                  Steve
                  Great articles and response everyone. I would like to share my thoughts on how I started WF and how I learned a lot from you other experts out here. I joined the WF forum to get more insight as to how to best market my online ecommerce business. I still work a full time job but I run a successful online photo canvas or picture company that does everything formr building canvases, photographers photos, photo to metal and even business signs and other related prints. We started as an ecommerce company only trying to sell across the US but at the time I was outsourcing a lot of my SEO work to India and couldn't really see exactly what they were doing. Our seo results weren't the best and our company was in a highly competitive keyword search "photography or photo prints". I didn't really know what type of quality work was being done on our site for SEO so I decided to spend the time going through days and days of video learning from youtube and forums like this to train myself to help optimize our website.
                  I would like to say that targeting a global or national SEO campaign was difficult but our success came more at targeting local key word searches such as Business signs Los Angelos or Photo Prints New York or Product {city}{state}{province}. So we started to focus now more on local SEO campaigns and it has been very rewarding. We've grown from a 1 person shop to about 20 employees during the xmas season and around 10 in our off peak season. I'm not saying our business is always making tons of income but it has a lot of potential to grow more and out rank our competitors for local searches.
                  With the posts above I agree that building an authority site and specializing in a niche product wether it be health products, electronic products or other really helps in your consumers eyes that you have a niche, brand and go to market strategy. Building a business isn't easy.

                  With the tools that everyone has on this forum it will be a no brainer to get the products you focus on, do some local campaigns while also building your website to go national.
                  We find that our local customers just want that old fashion brick and mortar store to go in see a face, talk to someone and purchase a product. Maybe knowning that if anything goes wrong the establisment or business will be there to take care of the post sales or return if anything goes wrong.
                  Yes many of you don't have a brick and mortar store but it could be something to look forward or aim for. I started in my basement selling on ebay, lost tons of sales with competitors but I only learned from that mistake and kept going. Quickly added more products that were related and kept optimizing slowly while focusing on ebay and other similar sites. Then we eventually jumped into a small store with myself and one other person to help grow and were are here now going from a basement operations to our first store which was 1100 sq ft to an even bigger 6000sq ft office with 10-20employees.

                  These are just my thoughts on building a business and many of you take different approaches. Would like to hear other stories on how you built your online business or strategy.
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  • Profile picture of the author Brent Stangel
    The high rate of failure experienced by start-ups is basically a problem of planning.
    No, it's a problem of every Tom , Dick and Harry having Internet access. Without the Internet's lure of "easy money" most of these people would never start a "business."

    If you qualified it with "actually taking action without profit" the number would be a fraction. Buying a MMO program is not starting a business.
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  • Profile picture of the author enjamulahsan
    Banned
    This is really a strong idea. IM business are getting popularity day by day.
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  • Profile picture of the author Your IM Friend
    I hear your point... Many people get lost in that "i want to make money" mentality, even more, in "i want quick bucks" type of thinking... And I agree, WF is partially responsible for that, but it's not the only one... Most big launches make similar promises: "make money quick", and that's why many people don't get to the point to plan their IM business...

    Just take a look at many strategies available out there, majority of them are created around that "make money quick" idea, and very few of them are designed to show you how to actually build a long term business online...

    Even when it comes down to list building, many methods will show you how to get subscribers fast, force them through your first funnel, and that's it. The promise is that you'll get subscribers and list you can use forever, but the truth is, those subscribers will unsubscribe and run away as quickly as they see that funnel because in majority of cases nobody shows you how to structure good and solid follow-up series...

    Well, these are just some examples... People lack a good and proven plan to build a business, and while searching for it, they get lost in un-complete and very questionable system created by people who want to make some quick buck.

    In my opinion, building an IM business is a must if you want long term success online. Making a quick buck doesn't even make lots of sense if you ask me.
    Signature

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    • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
      Originally Posted by Your IM Friend View Post

      I hear your point... Many people get lost in that "i want to make money" mentality, even more, in "i want quick bucks" type of thinking... And I agree, WF is partially responsible for that, but it's not the only one... Most big launches make similar promises: "make money quick", and that's why many people don't get to the point to plan their IM business...

      Just take a look at many strategies available out there, majority of them are created around that "make money quick" idea, and very few of them are designed to show you how to actually build a long term business online...

      Even when it comes down to list building, many methods will show you how to get subscribers fast, force them through your first funnel, and that's it. The promise is that you'll get subscribers and list you can use forever, but the truth is, those subscribers will unsubscribe and run away as quickly as they see that funnel because in majority of cases nobody shows you how to structure good and solid follow-up series...

      Well, these are just some examples... People lack a good and proven plan to build a business, and while searching for it, they get lost in un-complete and very questionable system created by people who want to make some quick buck.

      In my opinion, building an IM business is a must if you want long term success online. Making a quick buck doesn't even make lots of sense if you ask me.
      Dear Buddy,

      Your stupidity galls me.

      My IM friend, your signature link is about making money in 7 days, is it not?
      Doesn't that translate into a "quick buck"?

      I doubt you will make it to 50 posts with your spam.

      Do yourself a favor, get a new account, this one won't last long.

      gjabiz

      W
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  • Profile picture of the author ChrisBa
    Originally Posted by gjabiz View Post

    End of the year food for thought.

    Most popular Warrior Forum thread is what to do if you are desperate.

    So, let's talk about making money vs building a business.

    It begins with a transaction, an exchange of agreed upon value. Put your TV out front with a for sale sign on it, or run an ad on craigslist for your TV. If it is a decent model with a good price, it will sell within hours, and you have some quick cash. You've made A transaction.

    An IM business would normally have (with exceptions) many transactions, for example an eBay store such as goodasnewelectronics (NO affiliation, just an example) which has had nearly 70,000 eBay transactions.

    Quick cash = an exchange of value, your TV for cash today.

    Can you make money with one off transactions? Of course you can, but the problem often is finding the 'stuff' people want to buy or barter for.

    FASTEST way to money is to sell something you already have, get rid of it at a low price and get quick cash. But if you are desperate, the cash goes quickly, you already owe it to someone else before you even get it.

    But, the Internet gives you ample opportunity to rinse and repeat the process by buying and selling stuff if you want too. You could sell your TV for 100 dollars, or you could sell your car for several thousand.

    So Internet Marketing could be a one off transaction model. Good for quick cash perhaps, but not so good for long term strategy...which is where a business becomes a better way to go.

    A business will make either MORE transactions than the Buy-Sell model or it will make BIGGER dollar transactions, but at it's core,

    there has to be an agreed upon exchange of VALUE.

    A well thought out NEW business, like many of you want to start might begin with

    a MARKET. Or a product/service. Arguments over which is better are irrelevant to you, because the WF has many success stories from both methods.

    A group of people who BUY stuff is a good place to start
    IF
    you can create or acquire a product/service which matches what they are buying now.

    A product can be a good place to start if there is a DEMAND or one can be created, as in a Fad or novelty item.

    You can make money without having a business, but one truth might be you will work harder over time UNLESS you have higher dollar transactions...

    OR you can take the time and maybe money to build a business which could be better path for you to take.

    So, what do you want to do in 2016?

    Build a business?

    OR

    Just make some Dang Money?

    gjabiz

    PS. Or maybe both?
    I think your right on. Often people try to go for the easy and quick cash. This can often be a means to an end and require lots of work.
    Long term is awesome but takes some discipline.
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  • Profile picture of the author SeanGareth
    It's going to take some amount of experience to make money. Selling a service would probably be the fastest way for someone to earn if they are new, just develop a skill.


    Some words of encouragement.


    You can achieve your goals if you are prepared to learn and work. Whatever those goals might be. The power is in your hands, it always will be. Don't ever forget this.
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  • Profile picture of the author marks2424
    I agree with many of the things people have said but have my own thoughts on the subject. I don't believe most people fail because the don't have a plan I think they fail because they don't know how to do many of the things they need to do.

    So often on WF I see someone post a nice list of things people need to do to succeed and everyone says what a great thing to post but what good is it to post that you need to do A, B, C and D if you don't tell people how to do what you are telling them to do.

    I see a lot of people confused on not what to do but how to do it and most often if they don't buy into some learning program it could take years to figure it out on their own.

    So it is great to tell someone they need a business plan but tell then how to put one together, it is great to tell someone to make a squeeze page but tell them how to do it and what it is for. It is also great to tell everyone to make a list so they can sell people stuff again and again but tell them how to tie the squeeze page to an auto responder so they can do it.

    Yes many fail because they don't have a plan but I think the majority of people fail because they lack the knowledge to even follow a plan if they had one.
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    • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
      Originally Posted by marks2424 View Post

      I agree with many of the things people have said but have my own thoughts on the subject. I don't believe most people fail because the don't have a plan I think they fail because they don't know how to do many of the things they need to do.

      So often on WF I see someone post a nice list of things people need to do to succeed and everyone says what a great thing to post but what good is it to post that you need to do A, B, C and D if you don't tell people how to do what you are telling them to do.

      I see a lot of people confused on not what to do but how to do it and most often if they don't buy into some learning program it could take years to figure it out on their own.

      So it is great to tell someone they need a business plan but tell then how to put one together, it is great to tell someone to make a squeeze page but tell them how to do it and what it is for. It is also great to tell everyone to make a list so they can sell people stuff again and again but tell them how to tie the squeeze page to an auto responder so they can do it.

      Yes many fail because they don't have a plan but I think the majority of people fail because they lack the knowledge to even follow a plan if they had one.
      Every single thing you mention is available here at WF, with a little searching, or a little money spent.

      Over the last couple of years there have been scores of low cost WSO's which give the details on how to set up a squeeze page attached to an autoresponder series.

      If your plan lacks the HOW TO it is because you've been lazy putting it together. ALL the how to you need is available for free with some search effort, and with a little money, you can expedite that search.

      BUT, any PLAN not fueled by purpose and supported with Action and Adjustment, doesn't have much value.

      So, in this instance, the old saying putting the cart before the horse, would translate to...

      Having a PLAN to build an Internet Business without having a REASON why, would fit the bill.

      WHY do you want an IM biz?

      gjabiz
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  • Profile picture of the author marks2424
    gjabiz, I don't really agree with your response to my comment as I don't think you can find answers to all questions here.

    Example I mentioned a business plan and after your comment I went to the search section of this site and typed in how to write a business plan and got nothing. I looked through 10 pages of what popped on the screen after entering my search and found nothing that would answer my question.

    I searched for several other common things just to see what I could find and never really got answers to any of the things I was looking for.

    As far as money many people come here without any money to spend and if they can't get a good answer to some of their simple questions in an attempt to get started then how do they start.

    Most people selling IM plans will give you lots of free info but most of it is vague and they always hold back the most important part to draw people in and I understand that and that goes on here and I understand that as well but I don't think as good as this forum is that anyone is really going to get full answers to any of the really important questions they ask as they will always have to pay for that and I understand that too.
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    • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
      Originally Posted by marks2424 View Post

      gjabiz, I don't really agree with your response to my comment as I don't think you can find answers to all questions here.

      Example I mentioned a business plan and after your comment I went to the search section of this site and typed in how to write a business plan and got nothing. I looked through 10 pages of what popped on the screen after entering my search and found nothing that would answer my question.

      I searched for several other common things just to see what I could find and never really got answers to any of the things I was looking for.

      As far as money many people come here without any money to spend and if they can't get a good answer to some of their simple questions in an attempt to get started then how do they start.

      Most people selling IM plans will give you lots of free info but most of it is vague and they always hold back the most important part to draw people in and I understand that and that goes on here and I understand that as well but I don't think as good as this forum is that anyone is really going to get full answers to any of the really important questions they ask as they will always have to pay for that and I understand that too.
      So, ask your questions. I'll find you the answers. For free.

      gjabiz
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  • Profile picture of the author Kado
    Thank you gjabiz,

    I agree with you, but maybe that is according to everyone's experience in the internet marketing . As I have seen so many persons who still make a huge money by selling products and services but I think as you're thoughts that doesn't need a very big experience of internet marketing and maybe this method to make money is good for some
    persons.

    But otherwise I think If you still working on the internet without any responsibilities of online business you can develop your knowledge about internet and how to build your business and I think the word of "business" have a big meaning , as you need to know the market of your business, your product, how to build a good standing website, how to make online marketing , how to develop and manage this website and lastly how to find a good finance for your website or "your business".

    But every one need to develop him/her self to have a good business, and it may start by an idea and may you need a help from others to assist in building and launching your business and make time and effort in your favor .

    I think your responsibility is to have a general knowledge of building a business and then start with your mind to find a good assistance from other persons or even paid services ..



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  • Profile picture of the author nhocnguyen
    Buisinesses have to constantly think about better ways to make profit since there is competition. The plan is always changing to adapt to today's market. So you learn to think outside the box which I think is an essential skill to have success
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  • Profile picture of the author reachintan
    nice unique article...comprehensive overview and insights...hope to see more comments coming on this post in future...
    Signature

    Chintan Mehta

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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
      I think some people fail to differentiate between "building a business" and "building an empire." I've met real world business owners who have very stable businesses, and have deliberately kept them small. One runs a breakfast and lunch place near one of our beautiful beaches. They open early for breakfast, serve lunch until early afternoon, then close and head for the beach themselves.

      They both retired from more traditional entrepreneurial ventures, so amassing the greatest amount of money isn't the point. They make enough to supplement the returns on their investments, and they're content with that. No one could convince them that they don't have a real business just because they aren't trying to dominate the local restaurant scene.

      Also, the people looking to make $50 or $100 per day aren't all from third world countries.

      $100 per day is about $36k per year.

      Many retirement planning models suggest that a person reaching age 65 could withdraw 4% per year from their nest egg and never exhaust it.

      Using that model, that simple, dependable $100 per day "moneymaker" would be like having an extra $900,000 in their nest egg.

      And if you are over 50, the odds of building a $100/day cash flow are much better than putting away an extra $900k.
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  • Profile picture of the author Andrea21
    I'd like to know if there are people online who are willing to help people for free to get started with earning money online? I'm always struggling with niches and I'm always trying to look for something I will stick with and that will be reasonable to set up. What is the easiest way to start with earning money with adsense? I'm not always interested in writing about producs and anyway, how many people succeed in earning say $1,000 or more per month?
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    • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
      Originally Posted by Andrea21 View Post


      I'm always struggling with niches and I'm always trying to look for something I will stick with
      Why do you not stick with a niche? What is your struggle?

      gjabiz
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      • Profile picture of the author Akin Alabi
        Short term for me. At least at the beginning.

        It is easy to say long term but when you have rent to pay, child to feed and all sorts, you will not have the mental strength to go for the long haul. You need something now.

        So it's ok slap up that mini page selling a nice little niche product and sell. When the business can run itself, you can start doing more long term things.

        That is how I did mine when I started over a decade ago.
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        • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
          Originally Posted by Akin Alabi View Post

          Short term for me. At least at the beginning.

          It is easy to say long term but when you have rent to pay, child to feed and all sorts, you will not have the mental strength to go for the long haul. You need something now.

          So it's ok slap up that mini page selling a nice little niche product and sell. When the business can run itself, you can start doing more long term things.

          That is how I did mine when I started over a decade ago.
          And it appears you have Sports covered, a bet on Handball or Snooker...make Las Vegas look tame.

          Could you or would you be willing to share what that first mini page was about?

          gjabiz
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    • Profile picture of the author discrat
      Originally Posted by Andrea21 View Post

      and I'm always trying to look for something I will stick with
      For some reason this struck me as funny but also a little sad. I guess an oxymoron of sorts and somewhat self defeating !

      Why don't you quit looking for something you will stick with and quit overthinking it .
      Just look for a Niche that you can somewhat identify with and quit worrying whether you will stick to it or not and just let the whole process of pursuing the Niche "take over "

      - Robert Andrew
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  • Profile picture of the author Gabbarsingh
    I cant still really figure out if IM the quick way or long way is better, as most of the quick ways that i have used and made some money , i have now using it as a longer term strategy and its paying off .. but mind you im only talking smaller amounts ..like under $1,000 a month.. not yet hit the big $$$

    Im starting to think IM is hardwork ,,and i need to get a product out
    Signature
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    Get it here!
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  • Profile picture of the author kingdevils
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    • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
      Originally Posted by kingdevils View Post

      The plan is always changing to adapt to today's market. So you learn to think outside the box which I think is an essential skill to have success
      I don't know what you mean, what exactly is outside the box thinking?

      If it is ESSENTIAL, it would be nice to know what it is, don't you think?

      gjabiz
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      • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
        Originally Posted by gjabiz View Post

        I don't know what you mean, what exactly is outside the box thinking?

        If it is ESSENTIAL, it would be nice to know what it is, don't you think?

        gjabiz
        There's a box?
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  • Profile picture of the author Augustinus
    Definitely build business and think long term . I seen this option always better because you are building something what will be here with you for long time . Something what help you grow as a person it is not just about money.
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  • Profile picture of the author Tomas Lodén
    To sum it up...

    As a general rule, you want to buy low and sell higher.

    That´s how you make money...

    Easy isn't it?
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    • Profile picture of the author Daniel Evans
      Originally Posted by Tomas Lodén View Post

      To sum it up...

      As a general rule, you want to buy low and sell higher.

      That´s how you make money...

      Easy isn't it?
      Buy what...?

      Sometimes in business, we buy nothing.

      Sometimes we buy things, that aren't resold.

      It might be easy in areas of business where that rule actually applies but it doesn't sum everything up.
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    • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
      Originally Posted by Tomas Lodén View Post

      To sum it up...
      As a general rule, you want to buy low and sell higher.
      That´s how you make money...
      Easy isn't it?
      NO, this does not sum it up. The answer to your question about it being easy is NO, it isn't!

      But, I'll offer a summary.

      Internet Marketing can be a way to start and build a business as well as a way to put some quick cash in your pocket.

      Building a business is for most people a longer term strategy and probably a better idea to give your time and attention to in the beginning.

      Two ways to build a business,
      1) PLAN and execute, with adjustment.
      2) FIRE. Just do it. Then fail forward until you have something which works.

      The second way is the method many Warriors use.

      Unfortunately, too many are DESPERATE and need money now to live and they have turned to IM as if it were their fairy Godmother, wanting to shower untold riches on their heads.

      So, a business might be the best goal for many if not most people interested in IM.

      Those camps seem to be divided into:

      A. Do what you love or have passion about.
      B. Do what you know based on your experience, knowledge and skills.
      C. Find a market first.
      1) Look for fish in a feeding frenzy and drop in the bait they like.
      2) Look for groups with problems you have a solution for.
      3) Tired market that needs refreshed
      And those are the top general ideas.

      The problem is a lack of business knowledge, which can be overcome with study and learning.

      There is plenty of evidence here that inexperienced business people started making money, some even reaching 6 figures a year, but more money didn't solve or overcome their ignorance and POOF, their IM business vanished in less than a year.

      Making money and keeping it, are two different skill sets.

      That is a brief summary of starting an Internet Marketing business.

      My opinion is: the fail happens at the beginning.

      There is a saying in the used car business which is, " You make your money when you buy." It means there has to be stored value in the car you are going to resell. So the CHOICE of which cars to buy is the key.

      The CHOICE you make about the type of IM you do, will often determine your success or more likely your failure.

      It could be due to aptitude, attitude, market flux, or just a bad fit...you chose something which doesn't suit you.

      It is complicated by the choices, which are overwhelming, too many things to try.

      Take some time, choose carefully, PLAN then execute/adjust, and you stand a chance with your IM biz.

      BUT, IF you are desperate or just looking to supplement your income or to generate some income, then you simply look for one off and or other types of making money opportunities. So far I've given a few, but here is that summary.

      1) Sell your TV, and use the money to make more. Buying and Selling is a multi billion dollar worldwide activity which can be as simple as you putting your TV on the front porch with a sign...to buying truckloads of things and shipping them around the world to sell to other people.

      2) Write or have written a specialty report, start with something Warriors would like to buy, found out by seeing what the WSO section is offering. Use your sig file to market your report. All needs for this can be found for free, except for the material, and Fiverr could be the cheap place to find that.

      3) Do something. From providing a service, like translation or transcription service to washing windows and mowing lawns, use this off line cash for your online activities.

      So, buy and sell. Write or have written. Do a service.

      But making money for most is a one off deal, they don't know how to turn it into a business or an ongoing venture OR, they are in too low of a profit situation.

      A person has recently collected a 25,000 US dollar fee for introducing a buyer to a seller of a million dollar yacht, these are Finder's Fees. I believe there was a recent WSO about Fees for Franchises or something like that.

      Collecting thousands of dollars from your efforts as the middleman (sometimes called arbitrages in IM) has always been available...think of dating sites, they are "middleman" businesses.

      So, my food for thought for 2016 can be summed up this way:

      Start a business.
      Make money.

      Whichever suits you, is the right choice.

      gjabiz

      PS. And nothing says you can't do both.
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  • Profile picture of the author juliantony
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    • Profile picture of the author JohnMcCabe
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      • Profile picture of the author gjabiz
        Originally Posted by JohnMcCabe View Post

        In case it takes the mods awhile to nuke this, DO NOT CLICK. It's a phishing link.
        My biggest annoyance with WF is how often my email or PM gets scraped and how much "link" posting there is on these me too and oh yea type posts.

        Yes, I know the mods can only do so much, and with this many people...it falls on us to be monitors so a big thanks to

        John McCabe

        for alerting us all to this scam.

        As for the thread, I think it has run its course, and unless there are specific questions, I'll leave it alone too. (or a need for jousting).

        gjabiz
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  • Profile picture of the author Marvin Adam
    I think nothing will beat selling your own product on the long run, let alone your selling your own service. Once crafted and well prepared, nobody can take it. If you manage to make it run smooth, make it generate you some money on a constant basis and you move on to your next task, like creating another product/service, you will most likely build up on that.

    If done right, it's highly scalable and not much more complicated than sticking to all other options outside of owning your own brand. So I'd definitely always go with your own business. Whatever you do, rather think of sustainable strategies which will most likely still work in some years, because the quick cash-option might vanish sooner or later.
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