Martial Arts Marketing

by EndGame 48 replies
No its not the name of my new super cool yet to be released "killer" affiliate marketing campaign.

I am however looking to create a self defense/martial arts based internet product. Clearly there is room for a membership site model, a possible ebook, audio, or video model. Maybe all of them.

I was wondering if anyone here promoted any such products as an affiliate, or do you create products similar to the one I am describing?

My problem is, I am young, but I genuinely have a lot of experience. I have been into karate since I was 6 years old. I was a black belt by the time I was 9, and a second dan black belt when I was 12. Ever since I have competed and trained in several styles of martial arts, including:
1. Shotokan
2. Kapap/Krav maga (Israeli)
3. Jiu Jitsu
4. Aikido
5. Senshido
6. Some limited grappling classes.
I have done a class of wing chun Kung Fu, but I hated it.

My instructors have included ex-police instructors, ex-Navy and doormen as well.

I have been working for over three years in door work and security, and have a lot of practical experience (unfortunately). I think all of the above serves me well in being able to provide a guide to self defense for beginners. I also want to teach people how to use it very responsibly.

My problem is, in forums etc and the like, the martial arts market is very opinionated for the most part. Dominated by testosterone-full males, all looking to prove their martial art or style as the best. All looking to prove themselves as the best fighter. I have no interest in this. I am keen to explore as many styles as possible in my life time, and I am open to intelligent considered thought on matters of technique, provided it is backed up in part by some experience.

My question is, if you do any martial arts marketing, do you market to new comers, with little idea about what to do, or do you try to market to the opinionated and occasionally bigoted crowd of martial artists?

I appreciate some people in this market may not wish to help a new competitor, and I am also aware some people may not know a lot about the market at all. But any guidance would be useful, from any marketer really.

If you don't have an answer, or don't want to, then thats cool. Feel free to ignore me. I'll be okay in the end after some therapy and a warm cup of tea.

Thanks for reading, and thanks in advance for any help any of you can offer.

Alex
#main internet marketing discussion forum #arts #marketing #martial
Avatar of Unregistered
  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    Hi Alex,

    This is a niche I only considered briefly until recently when I found my local TKD facility.

    Peterborough Martial Arts

    I spoke to the guy who runs it and he's built it up from nothing with his own money and passion.

    His aim is to train youngsters for the 2012 olympics.

    He gets a lot of kids in for anti-bully skills, but he's also working with schools in the area making demonstrations and anti-bully messages part of the way the schools operate.

    Once I saw how dedicated he was to helping people it made me want to help him, so we had a good chat and I overloaded his brain with marketing possibilities (including all the IM ones you've already mentioned).

    This is in fact the classic niche that I often use as an example of how you could effectively create a membership - even if you are not the one with the expertise.

    Since YOU are, and you probably have contacts and relationships with others who have knowledge and skills to share, this is a perfect niche for creating a significant income.

    As for marketing to the testosterone or not, I think you would do best to get a clear picture of the sub-niches and then brainstorm where these disciplines can be clearly promoted (child/woman self defense, competitive training etc...) and then with a larger plan in mind, start with one sub-niche and build a funnel ending at a membership (perhaps consider a continuity approach) where you can interview experts (starting with the ones you know and the people they know) and over time, build out the niches until you've effectively got a funnel for every discipline with the membership as the main revenue point that is the basic revenue but also the marketing chain for the back end products you can create as opportunities arise.

    Andy
    Signature

    nothing to see here.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8381].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author EndGame
      Andy,

      I really appreciate that thoughtful response to my question. That kind of advice was exactly what I need.

      I think a membership site is the best model. I want to reach perhaps the people who feel vulnerable and unsure of how to protect themselves, the kind of people who are not pumped up on their own martial arts ego. I think a membership/community driven approach would be the best.

      I like using front end niche products to funnel them into that membership site. That was something I would never have thought of. I really appreciate that, and it has given me something to think about.

      I had some pretty wacky ideas at one point, but decided to scrap them. I don't know if you watch Top Gear Andy, and if you do, you might be familiar with the Stig? If so, I wanted to create a martial arts equivalent, do some videos, with me narrating over the top of some demonstrations. I would choose to create this alter-ego so people would not be able to see my face. Reason being, I have a baby face, and I am not a massive guy. I think if I don't look like Jean Claude Van Dam, or Bruce Lee, i will lose credibility. As I said, I scrapped that idea.

      I will take on board your suggestions though Andy, thanks again.
      Signature
      "Better a student of reality than a master of illusion"
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8404].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Jared Alberghini
        Hey Alex,

        I'm also into Martial Arts (mainly Modern-Arnis & MMA) and have been putting together some ideas on marketing this niche, which I believe has huge potentials.

        Just take a look at the UFC, Pride, and now Elite-XC on primetime non-cable network (ABC).

        The sport is growing at an exponential rate, and it does not discriminate by race or gender. Girls like to learn self defense techniques & fight just as much as guys do!

        My question is, if you do any martial arts marketing, do you market to new comers, with little idea about what to do, or do you try to market to the opinionated and occasionally bigoted crowd of martial artists?
        I don't really think that True martial arts practitioners have an ego or bigoted opinions towards their students... The key is to gain knowledge, and then share that knowledge with others... Perfect for an Info-product.

        Especially video demonstrations in my opinion would be the best product to market.

        Take a look at the Dog-Brothers Dog Brothers Inc. Martial Arts

        Let me know what you think and if you would like to work with me on this, just send me a PM.

        P.S. Check out & join the Martial Arts Warriors - Social Group
        http://www.warriorforum.com/groups/m...-warriors.html


        Look forward to talking with you,
        Jared
        Signature

        P.S.

        Join The Future: Telekinetic Marketing

        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8462].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
          Hi Alex,

          I love Top Gear - having an alter-ego like the stig is a great idea, especially if you added some humour into it like the Top Gear guys do.

          As for the sub-niches and begineers vs experts etc, I think you can end up marketing to them all, but select the sub-niches and build them out one at a time so that every new sub-niche supports the existing ones.

          If you do it like this, you can end up making money while you go (selling sub-niche specific products) and building specialised lists, then able to cross-promote as sub-niches come online and eventually have a massive martial arts empire with products in each niche, perhaps even memberships for each one, but also a generic 'martial arts' membership (many people into martial arts love anything to do with martial art skills, so many of your sub-niche members would also join the generic one).

          This way you get multiple sales from the same customers by appealing to them at various levels.

          If you have access to experts you can massively use the power of video marketing, article marketing and press releases.

          But before I go on and on, my advice would be to create a clear big picture of the entire scale of the MA niches you want to 'own', check out what's already out there and what people are looking for, then split the niche into modules (sub-niches) and then get to work on module 1 and build them up over time.

          Andy
          Signature

          nothing to see here.

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8495].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author EndGame
            Andy,

            Again, thank you very much for that input. I think that might be the approach I would take. I may well take the alter-ego route, I want to make the learning process fun, and accessible to people who might be intimidated by learning how to fight. This kind of device might work well, and you have made me think about it. Thank you once again.

            I love this forum.
            Signature
            "Better a student of reality than a master of illusion"
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8505].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author EndGame
          Thanks for all the input.

          Particularly you jared, I'll join that group asap, and would love to link up with you on some stuff if you would be at all interested at some point.

          imb, I am interested in what you said as well. You don't strike me as the kind of person who is fueled by their ego. I hear what you are saying, and I don't think I could be as presumptuous as to market to trained members of the community. However, I can't for the life of me think why you would not want to learn something new of another style? What if the information was free?

          I personally think some styles are superior, we all have our favorites, but I think all martial arts have something unique to offer, and thats why I try and be as open-minded as possible when it comes to learning from others and listening to what they are saying.
          Signature
          "Better a student of reality than a master of illusion"
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8497].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author imb
            Originally Posted by EndGame View Post

            imb, I am interested in what you said as well. You don't strike me as the kind of person who is fueled by their ego. I hear what you are saying, and I don't think I could be as presumptuous as to market to trained members of the community. However, I can't for the life of me think why you would not want to learn something new of another style? What if the information was free?
            What I mean to say is that for example, I'm a Muay Thai guy then I see your product like "Ramon Dekkers Secrets", you can bet that I'll instantly be interested in it. I agree that learning a new style is not bad most specially in MMA but for the sake of interests in buying products, the style that I practice will appeal more to me.
            Signature

            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8722].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Anthony Robinson
          It seems that you probably have many of the resources/contacts you would need to get started on this. Have you considered offering a free video series via autoresponder to get people to opt-in? If you're aiming at self defense for women you could put together a series of videos that shows a different self defense technique that someone with little or no experience could execute. You could also do an autoresponder series that offers "awareness" type advice; i.e. Are you likely to be attacked? Stuff that catches peoples attention. Does any of this sound like what you're looking for?
          Signature

          .

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8500].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author EndGame
            Chopper,

            I think you hit the nail on the head. I want to create a product focussed on everyday situations and confrontations people can be faced with these days on the street. Thanks for the suggestions.

            Beth,
            Its nice to speak to some one who knows what "Katas" are. I never thought of marketing to shotokan people actually. I was more focussed on helping people use various close quarter combat techniques to get out of common on the street confrontations. I do like your idea though. Its a new angle I hadn't thought of.
            Signature
            "Better a student of reality than a master of illusion"
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8516].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author bethparker
          I think you should market to people at all levels. However, to get the project off the ground more quickly, perhaps you could start with the basic kicks, punches and blocks. Or a basic self-defense course. That way you wouldn't need as much material before you can start selling memberships.

          I think videos would be necessary for this type of site. If I was going to join something like this, the main thing I would be looking for is videos of the katas. It would be nice to be able to watch someone else doing them correctly when you're learning. We don't spend much time on it in class.

          I am a yellow belt in Shotokan karate, and my husband is a blue belt. I do think that a membership site would appeal to more advanced martial artists as well. After all, Black Belt magazine manages to sell subscriptions. In fact, that might be a good place for you to advertise your membership site, if the ads aren't prohibitively expensive.
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8504].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author ExRat
          Hi Alex,

          I'm not in that market, but I've done a little muay Thai, boxing, judo, self defence etc. and I know some quality doormen.

          I think you should ignore the testosterone dick-waving fraternity you are bound to come across online. I would aim for the 'keen to learn' market - particularly women and untrained males and I definitely think in depth video is the key to it - I believe it can be easier to produce than text and images.

          I wouldn't let your self image come into it. The self defence bloke I learnt from as a kid at school was scrawny and smaller than me but he could kill you with his back turned with his credit card or a cocktail stick.

          Smaller people are often tougher - for a reason. If you can easily demonstrate technique and speed of thinking (combined with) action you will be fine AND you will be helping part of the market that you wouldn't be if you perpetuated the myth that you need to be Van Damme in order to be proficient in self-defence.

          You should do some research - there's a ton of stuff on youtube aimed at all sorts of markets (trust me, you'll find out when you take a look) and I'll also give an honourable mention to a bloke who I came across on John Delavera's site and I'm sure he was a warrior (although I haven't seen or heard from him in a year or two).

          He was Lance Mock, a big strapping geezer, and he used to sell an excellent looking ebook on EXACTLY the subject you are looking to cover. See if you can find his site/ebook and see how he did it.

          He used good copy to explain how anyone can become proficient in self defence and how a 7 stone female can easily disarm a hulking knifeman. It's all about two things...

          Signature


          Roger Davis

          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8527].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author EndGame
            Originally Posted by ExRat View Post

            Hi Alex,

            I'm not in that market, but I've done a little muay Thai, boxing, judo, self defence etc. and I know some quality doormen.

            I think you should ignore the testosterone dick-waving fraternity you are bound to come across online. I would aim for the 'keen to learn' market - particularly women and untrained males and I definitely think in depth video is the key to it - I believe it can be easier to produce than text and images.

            I wouldn't let your self image come into it. The self defence bloke I learnt from as a kid at school was scrawny and smaller than me but he could kill you with his back turned with his credit car or a cocktail stick.

            Smaller people are often tougher - for a reason. If you can easily demonstrate technique and speed of thinking (combined with) action you will be fine AND you will be helping part of the market that you wouldn't be if you perpetuated the myth that you need to be Van Damme in order to be proficient in self-defence.


            Your last paragraph says it all for me, and it is something I had not thought of. That is such an important point.

            Whilst I am far from scrawny, I am not the doorman stereotype. For the market I am trying to reach, maybe this is more important than anything else. Thanks very much for the input.
            Signature
            "Better a student of reality than a master of illusion"
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8536].message }}
            • Profile picture of the author ExRat
              Hi Alex,

              Whilst I am far from scrawny, I am not the doorman stereotype. For the market I am trying to reach, maybe this is more important than anything else. Thanks very much for the input.
              It actually has a very powerful effect - not just on others who feared that their lack of 'hulk' was unimtimidating, but also on an attacker who gets a surprise - they don't forget.

              I used to spar with a much smaller bloke who I could defend against by just poking my jab out and keeping him out of range. Apart from the fact that his small bony fists got in between my ribs, he HAD to develop a ferociousness that was memorable - once he got inside.

              Most bigger people don't have this 'in our locker' because we aren't called upon so often to use it - and we become aware that others have had to.

              And as I say - when you see someone demonstrate effective techniques and they are not stereotypically huge - it can be effective and motivating.

              Use a huge slow oaf in your videos to demonstrate the point.
              Signature


              Roger Davis

              {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8605].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author deu12000
                If you target people new to martial arts you will have a much easier time, than marketing to seasoned martial artists. They definitely are opinionated and think everything is a scam (ex. B*ull*sh*ido members).

                An idea is offer an online black belt through your program. There are several black belt programs that are through the mail, but as far as I know I haven't seen any all online black belt program with testing and everything done online. You pick a style, have them send you web cam videos with their form (whether they upload it to your site, email it to you, or throw it on YouTube) and from there you critique their form and award belts.

                The ultimate goal of everyone that does martial arts is to get recognition aka a black belt or the equivalent.

                A monthly subscription is the perfect business model for something like this. They get new videos and training all the time with their subscription and if they follow through they are awarded belts. They save money from going to schools but get one on one training with an online environment in the comfort of their own home. Win-win scenario.
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8661].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author EndGame
                  deu12000

                  Thats a really interesting take, and not one I had thought of.

                  Thank you.
                  Signature
                  "Better a student of reality than a master of illusion"
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8673].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author ExRat
                  Hi deu12000,

                  I agree that your idea might be a good one, but I disagree with this part -

                  The ultimate goal of everyone that does martial arts is to get recognition aka a black belt or the equivalent.
                  I believe a lot of people do it for self confidence and to avoid repeats of bad experiences - amongst other reasons. And some of these people could possibly be timid enough to be avoiding classes (at first) and quality online help might be enough to get them started. I would suggest that for many of these people a belt is the least important aspect. But that's just my opinion, not fact.
                  Signature


                  Roger Davis

                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8674].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author Bryan Kumar
                    Alex,

                    I've sold info products to the martial arts / self defense groups as well as to marketers who want to target those groups. (Some fellow Warriors have done well with my PLR packages in this niche as well.)

                    You can market to folks who want to improve their existing skills (by learning new tricks, techniques, etc)....or you can sell to those who don't know any of it and just want to learn to defend themselves. Or you can target both.

                    Obviously, your message/approach will be different for each group, and thus your products will be different as well.

                    It's actually very similar to the business/marketing niche in many ways. You've got your beginners who don't know anything, or know very little. There, you want to focus on what works quickly, easily, with the least amount of effort, and is also the easiest to learn and implement. (i.e. quick self defense techniques, mindset, etc.)

                    Then there are those who know the basics and are even making some of it work. If you're targeting those (intermediate or advanced martial artists,) you want to focus more on the so-called "secrets" and little-known info i.e. stuff that will get their attention.

                    Bryan
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8709].message }}
              • Profile picture of the author Takuya Hikichi
                Four years ago, I was a consultant for four Martial Arts studios in East Coast US.

                What I found among the way studios advertised were that they mostly wanted to build their marketing effort based on credentials, certifications, trophies etc. Sort of like, "we're better than others approach".

                The problem for this approach I found were everyone else in their cities were marketing the same way and the audience became sort of "numb" to hear what these studios had to say about their credentials.

                After brainstorming with these studios, they decided to employ Education-Based Marketing approach. Instead of dwelling on their credentials and get tempted talking about "us", these studios decided to focus their curriculum on educating the audience about the history, roots, philosophies, experts and everything but about themselves or the schools.

                Pretty soon, the audience began perceiving them as the "go to studios" in their local cities.

                After that, I introduced some schools to the local continuing education programs held at either adult education programs or local universities and some set up free "lecture" type of classes to teach the history and benefits of self defense/martial arts.

                As a result, some studios gained free publication through these university circulated advertisement and reached hundreds of people who they otherwise wouldn't have reached.

                But because these studios over delivered their class content, it made a difference in their business. While other schools pretty much focused on who the best fighter was, these studios really stood out.

                I think now that I am in IM and see this in retrospect, it was more like a Permission Marketing. These studios gave value front end and as a result, they gained more positioning than their bargained for. Had they not wanted to see what people outside their industries did, I don't think it would have been possible for them to see the result.

                "We are the best fighters" approach is very non-traditional Eastern culture. I saw this as I traveled across English speaking nations even before whole MMA or any other today's martial arts movement became popular.

                Many schools in Asia are much more involved in communities and cities. Once this happens, it's especially amazing the way parents of students feel about you as the teacher. They feel like they want to support you because you're doing something different than other schools and their "Masters".
                {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8735].message }}
                • Profile picture of the author Barbara Eyre
                  Alex,

                  I love your idea.
                  I did a little (and excuse me for butchering the name) Hurang Do at Arizona State University. However, due to a damaged lower lumbar, I can't do much in the way of exercise. So, I do not have the experience to discuss this subject like others have in this thread.

                  In conjunction with many of the known (and lesser-known) Martial Arts, may I also suggest adding Tai Chi? I know this isn't martial arts per se, but it is highly beneficial, can be a good gate-way into martial arts, and can grab complimentary target audiences.

                  I would love to learn Tai Chi myself, but find it difficult to learn from videos and books (especially when you have to turn and face away from the video/book!). But there is nothing like that where I live. phooey!

                  Anyway - no matter which direction you go with this niche - I think it will be a great boon for you. More and more, people are returning to a more natural and healthy lifestyle and the martial arts (and tai chi) are becoming more popular as a form of exercise, a way to boost self-esteem, a way to protect oneself from the nasty people, etc.

                  I wish you the best of success!!!
                  {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8945].message }}
                  • Profile picture of the author EndGame
                    Thanks to all those who have replied. Especially those who have done some marketing in this area.

                    You've all given me a lot to think about, things that I hadn't even considered. And thank you to those who took the time to mail me personally. This is what makes the forum such an amazing place. I am honored to be a part of it.
                    Signature
                    "Better a student of reality than a master of illusion"
                    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10098].message }}
                    • Profile picture of the author alex84
                      There are many things you can do in the martial arts niche. One interesting thing you could do is make a directory from the area where you live with all the different martial art centers.

                      Then you can add courses, online shop, ebooks, membership section, forum. If you live in London, then the market would be very big. Or if you want to take it to a higher level, make a directory of every major city in the UK, optimize it to be the leading martial art source for the UK, and voila, your site becomes a reference for martial arts in all of UK, now it starts getting interesting.

                      Of course, doing all this would require a lot of work, but I'm sure the rewards would be very good. At the same time, you can get another domain that won't be specific for the UK, but where you could still put up courses, online shop, ebooks, membership and forum.
                      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[10324].message }}
                      • Profile picture of the author Rachel Incoll
                        Hi guys,

                        Just my 2 cents worth - speaking from my husband's 15 yrs experience in training in different martial arts & now as a self defence instructor (Jim Wagner Reality Based Personal Protection system).

                        Personally I think the idea of offering a black belt course online is BAD. Yes, it might make some money with people that don't know any better, but it will simply end up causing the site to lose a lot of credibility on the net (on MA forums etc. from people who know a bit about MAs). Once the site starts to get a bagging on the forums etc., it will lose sales - it will get a reputation of just being another McDojo (of which there are already too many offline).

                        I don't think any martial arts program can be taught 100% effectively without the person actually going to classes in person. Yes, they can learn a LOT watching videos/reading books etc. but nothing beats what you can learn being there with the instructor. Without an instructor there watching them, they will more than likely develop a few bad habits in the techniques/methods & the longer they practice like that the harder it will be to get out of them. Also, without an instructor, you have no one there to 'push' you that extra bit & get that better performance/work out of you.

                        I'm not saying that an online video/ebook course wouldn't be effective in teaching people various self defence methods/technique, but it is not a good/honest way to give people a black belt or any other similar type of grading. If you give them a black belt after an online course, you're giving them a false sense of security that they can actually defend themselves in real fight situations. This is something that even real black belts (obtained from attending a Dojo/McDojo) often can't do - speaking from my husband's experience with a couple of Taekwondo black belts & a couple of Wing Chun Kung Fu black belts/sashes & instructors. Not saying you can't Alex :-).

                        The only way I believe it could be done is if the students studied via video, then had to come and see you for their grading (even if you were on the other side of the country/world). That way, you can see & decide whether they really are good enough. This could be done via video, but I believe there is too much room for error if you aren't actually with the student in person.

                        I reckon an online video training course (no gradings) in general self defence methods or even a members only forum (where they pay a monthly fee to be able to ask you questions) would be the best way to go.

                        Cheers

                        Rachel
                        Signature
                        Sick Of Spending Hour After Hour Searching For Australian Wholesalers?
                        Discover Over 1,000 Genuine Australian Wholesalers In Just A Few Minutes At www.AussieWholesaleSuppliers.net.au
                        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[12047].message }}
                        • Profile picture of the author EndGame
                          I'll be honest, a black belt training course online was never going to be my business model for the reasons already mentioned in your post Rachel.

                          And I would point out in my course that nothing beats real training. The purpose of what I would be trying to achieve is to give those who might be intimidated by the martial arts environment a chance to learn some techniques.

                          I would imagine initially my course would involve

                          -Spotting danger, being aware of your surroundings, and learning when you need to get out of there.
                          - Conflict resolution. How to get out of a situation before it escalates.
                          - Reading your opponent.
                          - Practical and effective techniques which defend against many common attacks today.
                          - Perhaps a slightly more advanced section as well.

                          I'd also focus on the psychology of conflict as well. Ultimately, there is a massive fear culture being perpetuated by the media. Particularly in the UK with regards to knife crime. This actually isn't unfounded as there have been a fair few murders over here recently, but it is not a new problem, which is what the media is trying to make out.

                          I agree with what you are saying. There would be little value in me teaching people online how to be black belts. That takes years, and it would take up far too much of my time. Plus, whether you have a black belt in the real world, or online, it does not mean you can defend yourself in a real violent situation. Furthermore, black belts seldom understand how to detect danger in a real situation, and how to avoid confrontation.

                          One of the best black belts in my class when I was quite a few years younger got himself beaten to a pulp outside of the dojo by one guy. It was a guy who he knew, and was expecting the attack from. He'd been studying Karate for years and didn't have a clue what to do. He got his ass neatly handed to him on a plate, with a side order of humiliation.

                          I agree with what you're saying Rachel, I thought I should make clear though, I want to give people access to effective techniques. Techniques they might not usually have access to, either because they live too far away from the nearest dojo, or they are intimidated by the macho bull shit of some of the dojos around them.
                          Signature
                          "Better a student of reality than a master of illusion"
                          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[12174].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author Mickey Wong
        Originally Posted by EndGame View Post

        I had some pretty wacky ideas at one point, but decided to scrap them... I have a baby face, and I am not a massive guy. I think if I don't look like Jean Claude Van Dam, or Bruce Lee, i will lose credibility. As I said, I scrapped that idea.
        Hi Alex,

        I think that actually works for you, especially in sub niches. If a 'little' guy/girl can defend themselves then it gives a lot of other similar sized people more hope. And there's a lot more of those in the world than the "Van Dams". There's no "yeah, that's all well and good, but look how big and muscular he is".

        Wing Chun was originated by a woman, wasn't it? Using the opponent's force against themselves instead of relying on brute strength?

        More people can relate to your size so a common bond is more easily formed. And it makes it even more spectacular when someone small can take down someone bigger.

        By the way, there's a thread on here about Google searches for "I am extremely terrified of Chinese people". Looking through the posts here, where it seems all Warriors know some form of martial arts, I think "I am extremely terrified of Warriors" is more appropriate!

        And, yes, I know some too... but no, we're not sparring anytime soon. I get enough of a beating from my wife!

        Mickey
        Signature
        Mickey Wong
        Founder & CEO, WhitelistNow.com
        Keeping Your Email Out Of Subscribers' Spam Folders

        WSO - 79% Discount Off New Software for List Building
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[516878].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Mike Hersh
      Originally Posted by Andyhenry View Post

      Hi Alex,

      This is a niche I only considered briefly until recently when I found my local TKD facility.

      Peterborough Martial Arts

      I spoke to the guy who runs it and he's built it up from nothing with his own money and passion.

      His aim is to train youngsters for the 2012 olympics.

      He gets a lot of kids in for anti-bully skills, but he's also working with schools in the area making demonstrations and anti-bully messages part of the way the schools operate.

      Once I saw how dedicated he was to helping people it made me want to help him, so we had a good chat and I overloaded his brain with marketing possibilities (including all the IM ones you've already mentioned).

      This is in fact the classic niche that I often use as an example of how you could effectively create a membership - even if you are not the one with the expertise.

      Since YOU are, and you probably have contacts and relationships with others who have knowledge and skills to share, this is a perfect niche for creating a significant income.

      As for marketing to the testosterone or not, I think you would do best to get a clear picture of the sub-niches and then brainstorm where these disciplines can be clearly promoted (child/woman self defense, competitive training etc...) and then with a larger plan in mind, start with one sub-niche and build a funnel ending at a membership (perhaps consider a continuity approach) where you can interview experts (starting with the ones you know and the people they know) and over time, build out the niches until you've effectively got a funnel for every discipline with the membership as the main revenue point that is the basic revenue but also the marketing chain for the back end products you can create as opportunities arise.

      Andy
      Things that are made with pasion are always the best products out there and all going by itself
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[516729].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author imb
    Having had a little martial arts training myself, I think I would only be interested in what I am in to. For example if my interest is Muay Thai, I won't be that much interested to read a TKD ebook. Having that said I think it's easier to market your stuff to beginners rather than those with experience already.
    Signature

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[8445].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Hardi Wijaya
    Originally Posted by EndGame View Post

    My problem is, in forums etc and the like, the martial arts market is very opinionated for the most part. Dominated by testosterone-full males, all looking to prove their martial art or style as the best. All looking to prove themselves as the best fighter. I have no interest in this. I am keen to explore as many styles as possible in my life time, and I am open to intelligent considered thought on matters of technique, provided it is backed up in part by some experience.
    This didn't happen before the invasion of the Western culture. No, this isn't my opinion. Just look at the numbers of 'teachers' in the Western society as compared to the Asian world. Back in Asia, the real teachers constantly warn students not to become proud. Because a teacher is not a teacher, but a seasoned student for life. And they keep telling us that the worst enemy is own self.

    Nowadays, people just want to teach rather than learning. Money is also another motivational factor.

    Originally Posted by EndGame View Post

    My question is, if you do any martial arts marketing, do you market to new comers, with little idea about what to do, or do you try to market to the opinionated and occasionally bigoted crowd of martial artists?
    I personally don't encourage selling to this group. But it doesn't mean that you cannot market to them. I think they only deserve the basic education, not the advance course. If you truly know martial arts, you know that one must not be judgmental in order advance to higher level.

    So I believe you've to split your martial arts training into two parts -- basic and advance.


    Hardi
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[12437].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author Hardi Wijaya
      By the way, try not to promote martial arts product by copywriting. It can work, but you could get more refund.

      Martial arts promotion should be more visual and personal. Promotion that is based on just plain words could offer you more uphill struggle


      Hardi
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[12448].message }}
      • Profile picture of the author EndGame
        Jason, thanks for that website. I've seen many sales pages like that in the niche, but it really turns me off. I guess I don't want to over-hype it.

        Hardi, I am aware that this is partly the product of Western influence in the martial arts, but westerners alone are not responsible for this. We just have to look at the japanese and Chinese debate over whether Kung Fu or Karate is more effective to see that. It has been in martial arts years, even before the westerners were involved. However, the westerners have made it a lot more competitive and have detracted from many of the fundamentals of the traditional martial arts.

        I called this thread "Martial Arts Marketing" because it had a ring to it, and encapsulates a large variety of styles and disciplines. What I would actually be selling/teaching is self defense. I would also be drawing a lot from my practical experience and the teachings of senshido and Krav maga.

        One day, I hope to develop my own style, and open a chain of training facilities. My firm belief is that everyone has a right to defend themselves in today's society. Of course I am trying to profit off this venture, but I make no bold claims that I am any kind of "master". Martial Arts has been a hugely positive influence in my life, and I want to share that experience with many other people as well.
        Signature
        "Better a student of reality than a master of illusion"
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[12471].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author JasonParker
          Originally Posted by EndGame View Post

          Jason, thanks for that website. I've seen many sales pages like that in the niche, but it really turns me off. I guess I don't want to over-hype it.
          One man's hype is another man's excitement. =)
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[12499].message }}
          • Profile picture of the author EndGame
            Originally Posted by JasonParker View Post

            One man's hype is another man's excitement. =)
            Lol, good reply. I like that!

            Thanks again Jason. Its a very useful resource.
            Signature
            "Better a student of reality than a master of illusion"
            {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[12513].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author Hardi Wijaya
          Originally Posted by EndGame View Post

          Hardi, I am aware that this is partly the product of Western influence in the martial arts, but westerners alone are not responsible for this.
          Oh yes it is. Allow me to ask them a simple question -- "What do you fight for?"

          The people at the 'middle kingdom' once fell for this weakness before. It was later certain masters realized it and started a movement. They realized the missing part of the martial arts. But the other side of the reality is that such knowledge can be abused. That's why some martial arts group are closed door until these days.

          Originally Posted by EndGame View Post

          We just have to look at the japanese and Chinese debate over whether Kung Fu or Karate is more effective to see that.
          None of the above is effective. People who involve in such debate never learn. Sadly, such stupidity still happens among them.

          Originally Posted by EndGame View Post

          It has been in martial arts years, even before the westerners were involved. However, the westerners have made it a lot more competitive and have detracted from many of the fundamentals of the traditional martial arts.
          I can understand. But competitive for what?... Martial arts is never meant for that. It isn't even for self-defense, culture, personal glory, or whatsoever reason. Anyway, I'd just let them alone hoping that they'll learn and >>evolve<< someday. That's why certain religious groups of Western origin tell people not to learn certain martial arts, because this kind of evolution goes beyond their propaganda.

          I hope to elaborate more of it. But it's deep. Besides, it is not the purpose in this discussion.

          For the sake of teaching, don't shut the door. But don't teach beyond that people can't apprehend, else your kindness could become a disservice.


          Hardi
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[14477].message }}
        • Profile picture of the author atisha
          Originally Posted by EndGame View Post

          What I would actually be selling/teaching is self defense. I would also be drawing a lot from my practical experience and the teachings of senshido and Krav maga.
          Hi Alex,
          I am new of this forum.(I'm Italian)
          For your purpose you can create a multimedia programme with explanation, videoclips and sounds for a better transmission of your knowledge.

          I made it, even if it is not on self defense
          http://target-training.it
          (english version in october)


          Roberto
          {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[94149].message }}
  • Hey Endgame,

    A little off topic but why did you hate wing chun? and dont worry you wont offend me lol it's got to be one of the most hated martial arts until you've trained in it for awhile and got past your first form. Very awkward and unnatural to learn.

    - Trevor
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[94169].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author stiggs
      If you are interested in marketing martial arts successfully checkout Go Kan Ryu or GKR Karate, it is one of the largest traditional Karate clubs in the world. The club attracts some controversy due to its method of promotion which is done by its trainee instructers and also that the style is (mostly) non contact but as an ex SDC (self Defence Consultant) I can assure you that the style is effective and the fact that it is non contact appeals to begginers and helps with the marketing process.
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[361002].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author MrCopy
    I am a 3rd dan in Jujutsu and am thinking about putting up a membership site / selling videos / books etc.

    There are a lot of very vocal testosterone-heads on sites like bullshido etc. These are just guys with low self esteem who need to talk smack on the web.

    I think my strategy will be to counter position - what I teach is martial arts for the thinking man and women, do not even apply if you are a testosterone-addled muscle-head out to prove your a tough-guy.

    For every big-mouth out there, there are probably ten guys who will find my approach refreshing.
    Signature

    Learn real self defense online at jujutsu.org

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[422930].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author shreekay85
    i think sites like bullshido are good,alot of hockey martial arts(read mcdojos and death punch nonsense around)...i actually run my country's largest fight forum and am meeting renzo gracie tmr to discuss some stuff for online marketing..
    Signature

    Recession Killing Adult Six Figure EBay Income Stream-

    Free Step By Step Video-Go to http://secretebaydossier.com to sign up now..

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[422954].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author gcjmarkets
    I love what you have posted because I too am in Martial Arts and an instructor. A huge trend that I have noticed lately is parents bringing in their kids for Anti-Abduction defense. Most of the major dojo's are offering those classes now
    Signature

    Customized One on One Offline Marketing Business Training! Only 10 Spots available Learn More At Local Marketing Agents | Free Online Reputation Analysis Template Visit Rep Medic

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[423023].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author MuayThaiGuy
    There's a few MMA-oriented products in the clickbank marketplace. I have an MMA website that gets around 40,000-50,000 page views a month and I promote a product called "combat core". The conversions are terrible!
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[426025].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author EndGame
    ha.

    Didn't see this thread was still active and had posters.

    I have started a little marketing in this area, but staying under the radar for now. Its going to be a long term project lasting years. if anyone wants to chat/work together, or chat martial arts, feel free to get in touch.
    Signature
    "Better a student of reality than a master of illusion"
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[426054].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Raydal
    For what it is worth, I've written copy for this market and did
    some research of the possibilities and people are making money
    in this area.

    Here's one of my clients website I wrote the copy for:

    BJJ Center - Adults and Teens Program

    Hope this helps,

    -Ray Edwards
    Signature
    The most powerful and concentrated copywriting training online today bar none! Let a VETERAN Copywriter and Teacher get your skills up to speed in little time.
    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[435416].message }}
  • Profile picture of the author Adam Kenzington
    Hey man,

    I was seriously into martial arts, in my teens & 20's. I moved around the country alot, so I was hard pressed to continue in the same style in each city. As a result, I trained in 4 different styles.

    My new instructors always wanted me to forget what I had learned before, and go with the new program.

    I found myself taking Bruce Lee's advise and taking the best part (what worked) from each style I studied and making it my own.

    In my 30's I taught women's self-defense classes. This was hands-on, full contact stuff. I wore heavy padding and a motorcycle helmet so these ladies could pummel the hell out of me. (Traditional Martial Arts teaches you to "Pull your punches", and that is not effective.)

    I taught a Navy Seal style course, where you boil your techniques down to 9 moves. Devastatingly effective! (traditional martial arts has a different move for each attack. BS! learn these 9 moves, and it won't matter how they come at you. Your covered)

    Something like that, with video instruction, e-book and the like would be a good way to go. Bypass the Pureists and teach the down and dirty stuff that works without having to spend years in a dojo.

    That's what I'd do.
    Signature

    "I can" is much more important than I.Q.

    {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[435618].message }}
    • Profile picture of the author atisha
      Originally Posted by Adam Kenzington View Post

      Hey man,

      I was seriously into martial arts, in my teens & 20's. I moved around the country alot, so I was hard pressed to continue in the same style in each city. As a result, I trained in 4 different styles.

      My new instructors always wanted me to forget what I had learned before, and go with the new program.

      I found myself taking Bruce Lee's advise and taking the best part (what worked) from each style I studied and making it my own.

      In my 30's I taught women's self-defense classes. This was hands-on, full contact stuff. I wore heavy padding and a motorcycle helmet so these ladies could pummel the hell out of me. (Traditional Martial Arts teaches you to "Pull your punches", and that is not effective.)

      I taught a Navy Seal style course, where you boil your techniques down to 9 moves. Devastatingly effective! (traditional martial arts has a different move for each attack. BS! learn these 9 moves, and it won't matter how they come at you. Your covered)

      Something like that, with video instruction, e-book and the like would be a good way to go. Bypass the Pureists and teach the down and dirty stuff that works without having to spend years in a dojo.

      That's what I'd do.
      I'm totally agree
      {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[437465].message }}
      • Hi everyone, new to this forum but not to marketing. I have been a school owner for many years and now I am broadening my horizons by getting in on internet marketing.

        I'm a longtime Dan Kennedy follower who has been banging the Info-Marketing drum for years and I have finally started getting into it. Pretty cool.

        After many years of hearing the "Flood your school with students" BS from the ex-school owners turned consultants, it struck me that there are billions of schools struggling, search for something, anything, that actually works.

        My USP is the Renegade School Owner. A current owner that is in the trenches. A business guy that has built a lead generating system that works- one that will work for you.

        Thanks for reading my intro and I would appreciate any feedback, ideas on build a list, approach to becoming the 'expert', etc.
        {{ DiscussionBoard.errors[516710].message }}
Avatar of Unregistered

Trending Topics