My Thoughts On IM Gurus After 8 Years In IM

by amuro
41 replies
When I first got to do internet marketing, I got to know guys like Ewen Chia, Eben Pagan, Mike Filsaime, Stephen Pierce, Anik Singal etc.

They are the guys who went on stage, sharing with people their failure and success stories before offering them their coaching programs.

They are what I defined as product creation and aftraction marketing gurus.

That was in 2008-10.

From 2011 onwards, I got to know another group of marketers. They are Matt Carter, Adam Short, Andrew Hansen, Aidan Booth, Brian G. Johnsen, Mark Ling etc.

These are what I defined as underground super affiliates.

They are not the types who frequently like to go on stage, proclaiming how good they are before offering their programs.

They go on stage and become gurus only after they are being invited to by close friends - some of whom they helped to really make a difference in their lives and most importantly -

AFTER they become successful.

In other words, these guys really prospered what they teach. That is affiliate marketing.

They don't do much product creation or blasting promo emails after emails to their list until their list gets burnt out.

I also admire guys like Edmund Loh and Dylan Loh, They are humble and who go all out to serve what their subscribers and customers need and want.

And because of that if I am to clear my guru folders from my email inbox or start a new email inbox, these are the guys I will most likely stick with and subscribe again.

No offence to some of you guys who might disagree. But that is how I feel after actually invested in their courses and do what they say.

And most importantly based on my results.

However I am still open to attending webinars, seminar previews or other live networking events.

The only difference is I don't make hasty decisions for the sake of making quick $.
#gurus #thoughts #years
  • Profile picture of the author Brent Stangel
    And because of that if I am to clear my guru folders from my email inbox or start a new email inbox, these are the guys I will most likely stick with and subscribe again.
    I've been doing this since 2008 and the last "guru" I unsubbed from was five or six years ago and that was Yaro Starak.

    I do it my way and that works great for me.

    Maybe it's time you "unsubbed" as well.
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    • Profile picture of the author DRP
      Originally Posted by Brent Stangel View Post

      I do it my way and that works great for me.
      Your reply reminded me of Frank Sinatra's song, "My Way".
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      • Profile picture of the author discrat
        One thing to remember just because someone is deemed a Guru by the masses does not automatically disqualify them as being truly legit and altruistic.

        There are so called Gurus who I actually follow and who are truly the real deal that make money off not selling the Dream but make money in the non MMO niches




        - Robert Andrew
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  • Profile picture of the author reachintan
    Thanks for your valuable insights. Looking forward to hear more from you.

    Chintan
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    Chintan Mehta

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  • Profile picture of the author Net 700
    Thank you for your thoughts, we need more gurus as time lapses.
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  • Profile picture of the author nwik
    I wouldn't write off 'gurus' all together.

    However, you need to be more critical regarding who you follow.

    If their 'free' stuff doesn't produce results, that should be a RED FLAG for you.
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  • Profile picture of the author Rod Cortez
    I've been at this full time since 2001 and I still don't know what a "guru" is. Ultimately, you're going to connect with people who resonate with you, as that will probably evolve as you and your business evolves as well.

    Take Eben Pagan, he was successful long before he ever started coaching others in business. And he resonated with me because my first really big success was in the dating market and he paved the way for guys like me.

    Also, for every internet marketer who teaches other marketers, there are plenty who you never hear about simply because they aren't in the MMO market, they're focus is elsewhere.

    Though there is something to be said about hiring a coach or a mentor when you are looking for a specific result. Though I could have succeeded without them, they shortened my learning curve and allowed me to grow my enterprisess much faster.

    I don't know what a guru is, but I've learned a ton from many of the names the OP listed and many others. Of course, there were some that made me wonder what in the heck they were teaching.

    RoD
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    • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
      Originally Posted by Rod Cortez View Post

      I've been at this full time since 2001 and I still don't know what a "guru" is. Ultimately, you're going to connect with people who resonate with you, as that will probably evolve as you and your business evolves as well.

      Take Eben Pagan, he was successful long before he ever started coaching others in business. And he resonated with me because my first really big success was in the dating market and he paved the way for guys like me.

      Also, for every internet marketer who teaches other marketers, there are plenty who you never hear about simply because they aren't in the MMO market, they're focus is elsewhere.

      Though there is something to be said about hiring a coach or a mentor when you are looking for a specific result. Though I could have succeeded without them, they shortened my learning curve and allowed me to grow my enterprisess much faster.

      I don't know what a guru is, but I've learned a ton from many of the names the OP listed and many others. Of course, there were some that made me wonder what in the heck they were teaching.

      RoD
      Excellent post.
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    • Profile picture of the author amuro
      Originally Posted by Rod Cortez View Post

      I've been at this full time since 2001 and I still don't know what a "guru" is. Ultimately, you're going to connect with people who resonate with you, as that will probably evolve as you and your business evolves as well.

      Take Eben Pagan, he was successful long before he ever started coaching others in business. And he resonated with me because my first really big success was in the dating market and he paved the way for guys like me.

      Also, for every internet marketer who teaches other marketers, there are plenty who you never hear about simply because they aren't in the MMO market, they're focus is elsewhere.

      Though there is something to be said about hiring a coach or a mentor when you are looking for a specific result. Though I could have succeeded without them, they shortened my learning curve and allowed me to grow my enterprisess much faster.

      I don't know what a guru is, but I've learned a ton from many of the names the OP listed and many others. Of course, there were some that made me wonder what in the heck they were teaching.

      RoD
      I like Eben Pagan too.

      Even though I cannot afford any of his coaching programs which are mostly high end (standard price is $1997), I downloaded all his product preview and Youtube videos and listened to them while working on my IM projects.

      But after 3 years of doing so, I began to realize what works for others might not work for me.

      No doubt, creating info products is greater and more profitable than affiliate marketing.

      That is if you know what you are doing, succeeded in what you are doing and can help others do the same.

      Whether it is IM, cooking, health and fitness, personal development just to name the most popular niches.

      Or if you know how to connect with people offline besides online like how Eben learns from dating experts and use what he learn to approach women

      But for someone who is a complete introvert, does not communicate well, new to IM, knows nothing about product creation and has no idea of what niche to go into, it is not advisable for him or her to create products.

      Until he or she knows what they are good at, whether there are many people needing their expertise and how do they go about helping those people?

      In terms of marketing and presenting, Eben is among the best.

      But in terms of product/market research and writing content that actually sells, I will say Andrew Hansen and Aidan Booth are among the best having subscribed to their list, watched their webinar replays and bought Andrew's Forever Affiliate.

      For your info, they used to start out doing article writing.

      Not just for internet marketers but for real business owners with their own clients. So they have a very good understanding of what the market wants in real life besides just relying on keyword tools data.
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      • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
        Originally Posted by amuro View Post

        I like Eben Pagan too.

        Even though I cannot afford any of his coaching programs which are mostly high end (standard price is $1997), I downloaded all his product preview and Youtube videos and listened to them while working on my IM projects.

        But after 3 years of doing so, I began to realize what works for others might not work for me.


        That one self discovery is something that will help people achieve their goals more than just about anything - understanding that learning from someone doesn't necessarily mean doing something just like the teacher/guru. Good job!


        Originally Posted by amuro View Post

        No doubt, creating info products is greater and more profitable than affiliate marketing.

        That is if you know what you are doing, succeeded in what you are doing and can help others do the same.

        Whether it is IM, cooking, health and fitness, personal development just to name the most popular niches.


        One thing I learned about product creation - especially -in the IM/MMO niches - is that it's very difficult for the average person to not only create a product, but to create a GOOD product, then do it over an over. This fact (and self realization in my case) is why I left the product creation in the IM/MMO sector. I reached my limit. Now I focus on only ONE project. For me, the product creation carousel was doing nothing more than making me dizzy...so to speak




        Originally Posted by amuro View Post

        Or if you know how to connect with people offline besides online like how Eben learns from dating experts and use what he learn to approach women


        Even in the IM/MMO niche if you don't get out and meet people (such as going to events, etc.) then you severely limit your success. My successes didn't start until after I went to my first event back in 2005 (literally one month after my first event I launched a product and grossed $20K in 6 days). It was DIRECTLY related to the people I met in person that made this possible.


        Originally Posted by amuro View Post

        But for someone who is a complete introvert, does not communicate well, new to IM, knows nothing about product creation and has no idea of what niche to go into, it is not advisable for him or her to create products.


        A lot of truth to that. If you are not willing to put yourself out there, you limit your chances greatly. There are exceptions, of course. Eben being a good example of someone who "hid" behind a persona and garnered great success in the dating niche.


        Originally Posted by amuro View Post

        Until he or she knows what they are good at, whether there are many people needing their expertise and how do they go about helping those people?

        In terms of marketing and presenting, Eben is among the best.

        But in terms of product/market research and writing content that actually sells, I will say Andrew Hansen and Aidan Booth are among the best having subscribed to their list, watched their webinar replays and bought Andrew's Forever Affiliate.


        One of my favorite movies when I was young was "The Bad News Bears in Breaking Training". In this movie, the pitcher (Carmen) tried to emulate and pitch like his favorite pitcher(s). And he was horrible. Then his coach told him that he wasn't Louis Tiant - pitch like Carmen. And BAM! He suddenly could pitch! He learned the mechanics by watching other pitchers, then applied his style.

        The point being, many people see the guru's and try to do what they do. Big mistake. Learn from them and apply it to your style. Find the ONE (or maybe two) that resonate with you and stick with them. Study and apply what you learn. These people don't have all the answers. Only the answers that worked for THEM.

        Mike
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        • Profile picture of the author amuro
          Mike,

          Having experienced live or what most people defined as normal networking, I began to learn there are certain guidelines we need to follow however casual and formal they might be.

          Rule No 1: Never Ever Try To Sell To Anybody On The Spot

          This is the mistake most people - especially introverts and those naive to marketing - make.

          This is the mistake I made too subconsciously.

          While it is ok to introduce and tell people what you are doing - including marketing, you should never try to sell anything to anybody on the spot.

          However tempting it might be since there are so many people around.

          Unless they have a problem or want which happens to be what your product can solve and fulfil.

          Rule No 2: Meet And Greet Everybody With A Smile

          Being brought up in the traditional Asian culture, that is one of the core principles and values installed in me.

          Even if you don't know that person or don't like that person's appearance when he is wearing T-shirt, shorts and slippers as compared to others' smart and casual wear, you should greet everybody with a smile.

          Rule No 3: Listening And Advising

          Besides talking, it is just as important to listen, put yourself in that person's shoes of the challenges and problems he or she faces and give appropriate advice.

          While I have no problems listening, I have problems comprehending what the other people say and giving advice.

          But if you are able to comprehend, give advice out of sincerity of helping others.

          And not taking advantage of their finances.

          If there is one information product I will create, it will be on communications which i need is what everyone needs be it social lives, as businesspeople and employees and

          Even politicans running the current campaign to be the next US President.

          This is what I feel and think.

          Though I am very certain many extroverts reading this will again strongly disagree and give reasons why they are right and I am wrong.
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    • Profile picture of the author agmccall
      Originally Posted by Rod Cortez View Post

      I've been at this full time since 2001 and I still don't know what a "guru" is.
      I have mentioned this before. A guru is a marketing term made up by marketers trying to position themselves as the "Anti" guru.

      al
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  • Profile picture of the author danieldesai
    I don't know about following people who market themselves as "gurus" (or something close to that) but I've learned a lot over the last couple years from people who actually walk their talk:

    Mark Ling, Zach Crawford, Stefan Pylarinos, Geoff Shaw, Neil Patel, Jon Morrow - just to name a few.

    Regards,
    Daniel
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  • Profile picture of the author thesuccesscoach
    interesting topics

    For some people it is the image that they project that is important, as I have heard and experienced people who really didn't care about the people they coached, but were out to make the money, they even said it, of course I am not going to mention names

    I worked with another person who promised X and Y but was never able to deliver.

    Although I think that with due diligence you can check anyone out and see what they are about

    At the end of the day though if the message the person gives to you resonates with you to me that is really important.
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  • Profile picture of the author chyan007
    Banned
    To Add to this ,I feel some of the gurus have massively over delivered and we need to laud them ,I learnt
    all about internet marketing through my mentors ,looking forward to hearing more from you
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  • Profile picture of the author Eagle07
    Originally Posted by amuro View Post

    [FONT=Philosopher][SIZE=3]

    However I am still open to attending webinars, seminar previews or other live networking events.

    The only difference is I don't make hasty decisions for the sake of making quick $.
    Have you tried the coaching program of Frank Kern? How about Gauher Chaudry?
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    • Profile picture of the author amuro
      Originally Posted by Eagle07 View Post

      Have you tried the coaching program of Frank Kern? How about Gauher Chaudry?


      No, I attended both their webinars but found their coaching too expensive.

      Frank Kern once emailed me about a live bootcamp event 2 years ago which is about $7K in which he offered to create automated webinar / sales funnels for attendees using his brand and methods.

      He is not so much into IM these days but more on business consulting and coaching.

      I am currently happy with NPC5, Forever Affiliate and AffiloBlueprint courses by Adam Short, Andrew Hansen and Mark Ling.

      They are the ones I will stick with after going through so many other courses.
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  • Profile picture of the author VidasVegas
    I liked your opinion ( by the way am online over 7 years ) I have one question for you:

    How much money you earn online after all these learning training mindset courses?
    ( If not a secret monthly ) ?

    Thank you.
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    • Profile picture of the author amuro
      Originally Posted by VidasVegas View Post

      I liked your opinion ( by the way am online over 7 years ) I have one question for you:

      How much money you earn online after all these learning training mindset courses?
      ( If not a secret monthly ) ?

      Thank you.


      I made about $1500-2K per month using what I learn from Adam Short, Andrew Hansen and Mark Ling.

      Compared with say Mike Filsaime and Anik Singal who focuses more on list building and product creation mainly in IM (though I may offend Anik and his students Jimmy Kim and Ritoban by saying this), I find their niche marketing systems much easier to follow and more flexible.

      As I can build niche sites, landing pages and market any other niche.
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  • Profile picture of the author jordorules
    Great post amuro!

    Thanks for sharing your views and also the underground gurus as I find them to be more suited to my style.

    J
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    • Profile picture of the author Kay King
      Have you tried the coaching program of Frank Kern? How about Gauher Chaudry?
      I think you missed the point of the thread - he's not looking for more 'gurus' to follow. You make money when you have your own business/products - not when you can name all the 'gurus'.

      It's one thing that baffled me in IM from the getgo - people talk about gurus as if they are "my best buddy". They are sellers online - you can learn from them but you have to make your own space with your own business. If all you do is follow gurus...what's the point?
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      • Profile picture of the author Eagle07
        Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

        I think you missed the point of the thread - he's not looking for more 'gurus' to follow. You make money when you have your own business/products - not when you can name all the 'gurus'.

        It's one thing that baffled me in IM from the getgo - people talk about gurus as if they are "my best buddy". They are sellers online - you can learn from them but you have to make your own space with your own business. If all you do is follow gurus...what's the point?
        I don't think so... As you may have seen in my post, I quoted him saying that he is still open for webinars and things like that so I was asking if he tried the webinars being done by those two who are undeniably on top of generating huge money online.

        I do like your statement though: "you can learn from them but you have to make your own space with your own business"

        That's pretty awesome and you can say that again!
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  • Profile picture of the author Oziboomer
    Back in the early days of IM for me like in the early 90's, before the internet, I heard one self-appointed guru of the day say 98% of people are still connected to the mothership by their umbilical cord.

    They knew how to leverage that fact.

    Despite having paid numerous people who I thought could help with one aspect or another the real way to succeed is to cut the cord.

    Carve out your own success.

    If one guru can help you do that then they've done their job.

    Best regards,

    Ozi
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  • Profile picture of the author Popche
    I also don't truest IM gurus so much, yes they want to teach people and help them but most of the things they teach can be found for free. This way they are only giving more authority to what you can already find online, so I would do proper research first and if the course is aiming for my category then I would purchase it.
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    • Profile picture of the author SiteNameSales
      "most of the things they teach can be found for free."

      Very true and I would add: "If you don't know where your're going, any road will take you there."

      The bad new is that it could take you a long to find your way. The good news is you'll have a lot of experience and you can succeed if you persevere and keep your eyes on the prize.

      I learned a lot from a variety of gurus, even if its never to buy from them or similar such offerings again. I'm at the point now where I can decide what I need and leave the rest alone.

      I think a successful track record and ongoing support are the key elements when shopping for a good guru/coach/program, etc. The better coaching programs are expensive, but they will save you a lot of time and money in the long run.
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    • Profile picture of the author JMSD
      I came across Yanik Silver at an IM seminar in London several years ago but that was at least two years after I had wasted precious time and a large five-figure sum to countless scam artists who promised the earth and delivered very little, mainly because I didn't have a clue how to discriminate between the genuine IM expert and the scam artist.

      Through Yanik, I found Jim Edwards whose MiniSite Creator courses started me out on the road to internet marketing enlightenment. (This was pre-WordPress).

      Jim Edwards taught me to create sites - most of my content sites were butt ugly but ranked high on Googles for years and gave me a modest list but the fact remains that Jim set out with these comprehensive courses to teach people to create sites and he delivered (over-delivered, in fact). I learned a lot about IM from him over the years.

      Jimmy D Brown was another who made affiliate marketing easy to follow and implement. There are countless others that merit mention but they are already aware of the positive difference they made to my online marketing experience.

      Nevertheless, I made very little money, then, largely because I lacked focus and had not quite made up my mind exactly what I wanted to do - be a product creator or affiliate marketer or both. So I did what most other people starting online do - buy more stuff!

      It was not until I joined Martin Crumlish's WSO VIP club that I actually put my ideas onto paper, created my own product and had my first WSO. I earned a four-figure sum, just, with that WSO. But I still remember the feeling of euphoria that this experience gave me and which spurred me on to my next product launch.

      Through this club, I JV-ed with another member and we had a WSOTD. I have to give much of the credit to my JV partner whose own expertise helped to make it the success that it was.

      So I have countless number of people (including fellow-warriors whose WSOs I've purchased over the years) to be grateful to for their help, support and their over-delivery of knowledge and expertise.

      Unfortunately, for the vast majority of would-be online entrepreneurs, most of the information offered by 'gurus' self-proclaimed or not, come when the newbies (for want of a better term) are not yet ready to absorb, let alone implement the tips and techniques. That's why most of them go from one 'guru' to another in the hope that one of them will hand them the silver bullet to overnight success.

      So I don't blame gurus/experts/IM mentors - they are in business to make money. And good luck to them all. It's each buyer's responsibility to research (WF is an excellent place for this), question and then make informed decisions before getting off that information overload fence to take action.

      Jamie
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      • Profile picture of the author amuro
        Originally Posted by JMSD View Post

        I came across Yanik Silver at an IM seminar in London several years ago but that was at least two years after I had wasted precious time and a large five-figure sum to countless scam artists who promised the earth and delivered very little, mainly because I didn't have a clue how to discriminate between the genuine IM expert and the scam artist.

        Through Yanik, I found Jim Edwards whose MiniSite Creator courses started me out on the road to internet marketing enlightenment. (This was pre-WordPress).

        Jim Edwards taught me to create sites - most of my content sites were butt ugly but ranked high on Googles for years and gave me a modest list but the fact remains that Jim set out with these comprehensive courses to teach people to create sites and he delivered (over-delivered, in fact). I learned a lot about IM from him over the years.

        Jimmy D Brown was another who made affiliate marketing easy to follow and implement. There are countless others that merit mention but they are already aware of the positive difference they made to my online marketing experience.

        Nevertheless, I made very little money, then, largely because I lacked focus and had not quite made up my mind exactly what I wanted to do - be a product creator or affiliate marketer or both. So I did what most other people starting online do - buy more stuff!

        It was not until I joined Martin Crumlish's WSO VIP club that I actually put my ideas onto paper, created my own product and had my first WSO. I earned a four-figure sum, just, with that WSO. But I still remember the feeling of euphoria that this experience gave me and which spurred me on to my next product launch.

        Through this club, I JV-ed with another member and we had a WSOTD. I have to give much of the credit to my JV partner whose own expertise helped to make it the success that it was.

        So I have countless number of people (including fellow-warriors whose WSOs I've purchased over the years) to be grateful to for their help, support and their over-delivery of knowledge and expertise.

        Unfortunately, for the vast majority of would-be online entrepreneurs, most of the information offered by 'gurus' self-proclaimed or not, come when the newbies (for want of a better term) are not yet ready to absorb, let alone implement the tips and techniques. That's why most of them go from one 'guru' to another in the hope that one of them will hand them the silver bullet to overnight success.

        So I don't blame gurus/experts/IM mentors - they are in business to make money. And good luck to them all. It's each buyer's responsibility to research (WF is an excellent place for this), question and then make informed decisions before getting off that information overload fence to take action.

        Jamie


        I also like building niche sites.

        Learn this from George Brown's Google Sniper before eventually sticking with Adam, Andrew and Mark's teachings.

        Problem is building a series of say 5-10 small niche sites recommending 1-3 products and plenty of articles can be very time-consuming.

        So now I focused on 1-3 authority sites in e-commerce, health and personal development.

        Which is good enough.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
    This is a blog post I wrote recently and fits in well here. It's called...

    Comparing Yourself to the IM Greats

    Comparing yourself to the IM greats is an exercise in self-torture.

    And yet newbie internet marketers do it all the time.

    It's not entirely their fault--they're encouraged to do it by the greats themselves. "Just buy this program; I walk you through it step by step."

    OK. But there are some missing things we need to talk about.

    Things that will make you cry, if you're an impressionable newbie.


    Comparing Yourself On Traffic

    Let's talk about traffic.

    The market leader will tell you, with all sincerity, all you must do is get people to see your offer.

    After all, they do this every day. They have experience with it. They can even afford to pay someone to manage the traffic process for them.

    The newbie can't.

    In fact, without being previously informed, the newbie has likely invested their last dime in the leader's program without knowing a further financial investment in traffic will be necessary.

    The leader doesn't make any money from this, so why talk about it on the sales page? Often the newbie has bought something that is already incomplete and they are unable to get working.

    But let's say our newbie does have the additional cash. They can make the traffic investment. All right. Now what?

    Despite how easy the leader makes it sound, crafting a winning ad is laborious work.

    It takes trial and error. Time. And cash.

    You're unlikely to succeed on your first attempts.

    What's this? Another opportunity for the newbie to give up. Trying to emulate the leader...but not having the resources of the leader.


    Comparing Yourself On Conversion

    Now to conversion.

    The leader gives good technical advice on how to take visitors and turn them into buyers.

    Nothing sinister here.

    Except the same trial and error requirement is back in play.

    It takes EFFORT to develop a converting sales page.

    And again, the newbie is dangerously unaware of this as they listen to the leader confidently prattle on about what has worked for them.

    Now let's say a leader has put out a new product.

    Accompanying that new product is a new funnel, right?

    Except that it's not "new."

    The leader has built into it everything he or she knows works...and many resources the newbie simply does not have access to.


    Comparing Yourself On Cash

    Let's talk cash.

    Just one factor...money. And how it makes all the difference in a campaign.

    So our leader launches the funnel.

    First of all, they get testimonials, feedback, buzz, and hype from friends, enemies, and the lay brethren waiting below for dropped alms with outstretched arms.

    Leaders 1, Newbies 0.

    Now the advertising appears. Paid ads on Facebook, let's imagine. Ah, the leader has a recognized face. Good for them. And the newbie trying to emulate?

    Leaders 2, Newbies 0.


    Comparing Yourself On Price

    Even if the ad performance sucks--the targeting is way off, the message is a complete mismatch--the leader can force it to work.

    Because the leader has guts.

    The leader knows they can charge $297 or $497 or $2114 for their product.

    The Chicken Little newbie does not have this confidence, and is busy clucking at the ground for a few pennies here and there.

    Leaders 3, Newbies 0.

    See, the newbie says, "I'll take what I can get," and prices at $47.

    And the ad budget runs up against that price point very fast.

    Say it's $1/FB click.

    Our newbie has to make it work within 47 clicks just to barely break even--in fact, with other costs they're losing money here.

    But our leader?

    They have all the way to 497 or TWO THOUSAND clicks--two thousand chances, one right after another, that they can well afford--to get that sale and break even.

    While the newbie runs out of ad money, ROI room, and "at bats" to convert almost instantly, the leader can keep throwing cash at it UNTIL IT WORKS.

    So it takes 1,050 clicks to get a sale? At a $2114 price tag, who cares?

    For our cash-rich leader, what's a thousand bucks?

    But our poor newbie has taken their bat and ball and gone home long ago.

    Leaders 4, Newbies 0.

    Game Over.


    Comparing Yourself On Mindset

    The herd mind really likes easy, free, proven, guaranteed. But the plain truth is that none of these apply to internet marketing.

    I'm sure nearly all leaders are genuine in their belief that they can help others. And they can. But the road will not be bump-free as they make it out to be.

    So if you're a newbie, stop comparing yourself to the IM greats.

    They can do more than you, act faster than you, take the road they know works that you don't know, and much more.

    Can you get there?

    Do they have much to teach you?

    Yes.

    But it's not going to be a bump-free ride.

    The only way you can compete is on mindset. Get to work on that.

    ##


    So trying to do what they do, right out of the gate, is going to result in frustration--unless the newbie is very well funded and given strong direction.

    Still, in my experience most people simply don't take much action. And then they complain "it didn't work."
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    • Profile picture of the author amuro
      Originally Posted by Jason Kanigan View Post

      This is a blog post I wrote recently and fits in well here. It's called...

      Comparing Yourself to the IM Greats

      Comparing yourself to the IM greats is an exercise in self-torture.

      And yet newbie internet marketers do it all the time.

      It's not entirely their fault--they're encouraged to do it by the greats themselves. "Just buy this program; I walk you through it step by step."

      OK. But there are some missing things we need to talk about.

      Things that will make you cry, if you're an impressionable newbie.


      Comparing Yourself On Traffic

      Let's talk about traffic.

      The market leader will tell you, with all sincerity, all you must do is get people to see your offer.

      After all, they do this every day. They have experience with it. They can even afford to pay someone to manage the traffic process for them.

      The newbie can't.

      In fact, without being previously informed, the newbie has likely invested their last dime in the leader's program without knowing a further financial investment in traffic will be necessary.

      The leader doesn't make any money from this, so why talk about it on the sales page? Often the newbie has bought something that is already incomplete and they are unable to get working.

      But let's say our newbie does have the additional cash. They can make the traffic investment. All right. Now what?

      Despite how easy the leader makes it sound, crafting a winning ad is laborious work.

      It takes trial and error. Time. And cash.

      You're unlikely to succeed on your first attempts.

      What's this? Another opportunity for the newbie to give up. Trying to emulate the leader...but not having the resources of the leader.


      Comparing Yourself On Conversion

      Now to conversion.

      The leader gives good technical advice on how to take visitors and turn them into buyers.

      Nothing sinister here.

      Except the same trial and error requirement is back in play.

      It takes EFFORT to develop a converting sales page.

      And again, the newbie is dangerously unaware of this as they listen to the leader confidently prattle on about what has worked for them.

      Now let's say a leader has put out a new product.

      Accompanying that new product is a new funnel, right?

      Except that it's not "new."

      The leader has built into it everything he or she knows works...and many resources the newbie simply does not have access to.


      Comparing Yourself On Cash

      Let's talk cash.

      Just one factor...money. And how it makes all the difference in a campaign.

      So our leader launches the funnel.

      First of all, they get testimonials, feedback, buzz, and hype from friends, enemies, and the lay brethren waiting below for dropped alms with outstretched arms.

      Leaders 1, Newbies 0.

      Now the advertising appears. Paid ads on Facebook, let's imagine. Ah, the leader has a recognized face. Good for them. And the newbie trying to emulate?

      Leaders 2, Newbies 0.


      Comparing Yourself On Price

      Even if the ad performance sucks--the targeting is way off, the message is a complete mismatch--the leader can force it to work.

      Because the leader has guts.

      The leader knows they can charge $297 or $497 or $2114 for their product.

      The Chicken Little newbie does not have this confidence, and is busy clucking at the ground for a few pennies here and there.

      Leaders 3, Newbies 0.

      See, the newbie says, "I'll take what I can get," and prices at $47.

      And the ad budget runs up against that price point very fast.

      Say it's $1/FB click.

      Our newbie has to make it work within 47 clicks just to barely break even--in fact, with other costs they're losing money here.

      But our leader?

      They have all the way to 497 or TWO THOUSAND clicks--two thousand chances, one right after another, that they can well afford--to get that sale and break even.

      While the newbie runs out of ad money, ROI room, and "at bats" to convert almost instantly, the leader can keep throwing cash at it UNTIL IT WORKS.

      So it takes 1,050 clicks to get a sale? At a $2114 price tag, who cares?

      For our cash-rich leader, what's a thousand bucks?

      But our poor newbie has taken their bat and ball and gone home long ago.

      Leaders 4, Newbies 0.

      Game Over.


      Comparing Yourself On Mindset

      The herd mind really likes easy, free, proven, guaranteed. But the plain truth is that none of these apply to internet marketing.

      I'm sure nearly all leaders are genuine in their belief that they can help others. And they can. But the road will not be bump-free as they make it out to be.

      So if you're a newbie, stop comparing yourself to the IM greats.

      They can do more than you, act faster than you, take the road they know works that you don't know, and much more.

      Can you get there?

      Do they have much to teach you?

      Yes.

      But it's not going to be a bump-free ride.

      The only way you can compete is on mindset. Get to work on that.

      ##


      So trying to do what they do, right out of the gate, is going to result in frustration--unless the newbie is very well funded and given strong direction.

      Still, in my experience most people simply don't take much action. And then they complain "it didn't work."


      That is great advice.

      But there are 2 critical things you miss out.

      They are -

      1. Value Of The Product

      When presented with an offer, are people eager to buy?

      Do they actually need or want it?

      Or do they need to be persuaded by marketers to buy?

      If it is the second, I won't waste my time.

      Because persuading people to change their minds especially about buying when they are not interested is not what I am good at.

      I used to do offline marketing before but for some reason, that did not work for me.

      2. The People You Are Targetting At

      Who are the people you are targetting at and how do you target them?

      Are they those who need and want your product?

      Or are they just anybody who come to your website and you try to offer them?

      Most gurus only talked about Traffic and Conversions but having the right offer and market / audience are just as important.

      I will post another thread about Why Most People Fail Online in future and I can tell you my opinion is different from what you heard most people speak out there.

      I don't rehash what most marketers already said or you heard many times in webinars and videos.

      I say based on what REAL customers say.

      The ones that actually bought and succeeded or even failed at them.

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      • Profile picture of the author Jason Kanigan
        Originally Posted by amuro View Post



        That is great advice.

        But there are 2 critical things you miss out.

        They are -

        1. Value Of The Product

        When presented with an offer, are people eager to buy?

        Do they actually need or want it?

        Or do they need to be persuaded by marketers to buy?

        If it is the second, I won't waste my time.

        Because persuading people to change their minds especially about buying when they are not interested is not what I am good at.

        I used to do offline marketing before but for some reason, that did not work for me.

        2. The People You Are Targetting At

        Who are the people you are targetting at and how do you target them?

        Are they those who need and want your product?

        Or are they just anybody who come to your website and you try to offer them?

        Most gurus only talked about Traffic and Conversions but having the right offer and market / audience are just as important.

        I will post another thread about Why Most People Fail Online in future and I can tell you my opinion is different from what you heard most people speak out there.

        I don't rehash what most marketers already said or you heard many times in webinars and videos.

        I say based on what REAL customers say.

        The ones that actually bought and succeeded or even failed at them.

        The people you are targeting IS your traffic source.

        How pre-qualified a traffic source is will help or hinder your conversions.

        As for value...what does a newbie know? Everything is of equal value to them. Again, this comes back to pre-qualifying your traffic source if you can...so that visitors DO understand the value of what you offer.

        Another option is an educational sequence to warm them up. But you have to hook their interest somehow to begin with.

        I think you are missing out on a lot of you are only selling what people are ready to buy. Most people have no idea what they want.
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  • Profile picture of the author ydsimple
    IM business is same as business offline, it takes time, lot of work and investment to start making really good money. So I agree with Amuro before buying any course one must realize that he or she must be patient and put everyday, even small, actions to make it happen.
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    • Profile picture of the author Cassiel
      Originally Posted by ydsimple View Post

      IM business is same as business offline, it takes time, lot of work and investment to start making really good money. So I agree with Amuro before buying any course one must realize that he or she must be patient and put everyday, even small, actions to make it happen.
      This ^ ^ ^

      Exactly this. Hard work at the start is what gets you there. Nobody gets there by putting their feet up at the start. You can put your feet up later when you're making enough to pay others to keep the money coming in. Take action.
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  • Profile picture of the author amuro
    Some of you guys might or might not heard of Chris Farrell.

    He used to work with Mike Filsaime on AffiliateDotCom in 2010 and started his own membership site - Chris Farrell Membership.

    Now, Chris might be new to internet marketing.

    But he is NOT new to networking with people.

    He used to work as DJ and Public Relations. So he knows how to build rapport with people in such that they like and trust him -

    Even before he do internet marketing.

    Even among newbies, there is a fundamental yet overlooked difference.

    Those who are new to internet marketing but not new to people networking and even offine marketing.

    And those who are new to everything.

    Because of his experience in networking and even learning from people including Mike, he don't just do things blindly.

    He research, connect with his target audience and identify what works and what doesn't.

    That is why even though we both started in 2008, he took 6 months and I took 2 years.

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    • Profile picture of the author MikeAmbrosio
      Originally Posted by amuro View Post

      Some of you guys might or might not heard of Chris Farrell.

      He used to work with Mike Filsaime on AffiliateDotCom in 2010 and started his own membership site - Chris Farrell Membership.

      Now, Chris might be new to internet marketing.

      But he is NOT new to networking with people.

      He used to work as DJ and Public Relations. So he knows how to build rapport with people in such that they like and trust him -

      Even before he do internet marketing.

      Even among newbies, there is a fundamental yet overlooked difference.

      Those who are new to internet marketing but not new to people networking and even offine marketing.

      And those who are new to everything.

      Because of his experience in networking and even learning from people including Mike, he don't just do things blindly.

      He research, connect with his target audience and identify what works and what doesn't.

      That is why even though we both started in 2008, he took 6 months and I took 2 years.

      It also helps that Chris Farrell is a genuinely nice guy who LOVES to help others

      His membership site was a success before teaming up with Mike - it's what put him on Mike's radar in fact (I worked for Mike at that point in time). Working on the ADC site was fun when Chris came to the office.

      As for Mike, he too come into the industry with marketing experience. As many know, he was in the car business on Long Island. He worked both selling, as well as managing - but he was also their marketing expert. He simply transferred his expertise to the IM world.

      The take away here is that most of us have experience that can transfer over to the internet world. For me, my strengths were in technical things and customer service. I came from the field service world servicing specialty manufacturing equipment. I spoke to people from maintenance helpers all the way to scientists and CEOs so I got a lot of real world experience there. I also have a lot of project management experience.

      All of those attributes - once I learned to embrace them in my on line business - really helped with my successes on line.

      I still kind of suck in the "creative" department but I have a network of people I can turn to for help or partnership...

      Use what you have, learn what you need from people who have the knowledge you seek, but apply it your way.
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      • Profile picture of the author amuro
        Originally Posted by MikeAmbrosio View Post

        It also helps that Chris Farrell is a genuinely nice guy who LOVES to help others

        His membership site was a success before teaming up with Mike - it's what put him on Mike's radar in fact (I worked for Mike at that point in time). Working on the ADC site was fun when Chris came to the office.

        As for Mike, he too come into the industry with marketing experience. As many know, he was in the car business on Long Island. He worked both selling, as well as managing - but he was also their marketing expert. He simply transferred his expertise to the IM world.

        The take away here is that most of us have experience that can transfer over to the internet world. For me, my strengths were in technical things and customer service. I came from the field service world servicing specialty manufacturing equipment. I spoke to people from maintenance helpers all the way to scientists and CEOs so I got a lot of real world experience there. I also have a lot of project management experience.

        All of those attributes - once I learned to embrace them in my on line business - really helped with my successes on line.

        I still kind of suck in the "creative" department but I have a network of people I can turn to for help or partnership...

        Use what you have, learn what you need from people who have the knowledge you seek, but apply it your way.


        Mike,

        From what you shared with me and others, I can tell you are a pretty much interactive extrovert.

        Someone who loves networking, connecting and helping all kinds of people.

        I am pretty much introvert.

        If I am to work in Mike's office, most likely I will be working in one corner and mind my own business.

        I will talk ONLY to Mike, my immediate superior and colleagues on the same department.

        But NOT with everybody.

        As much as I like to interact and help others, I have to remember what my role is and making sure what I say and do is within the company guidelines.

        That might not be your case and big deal in US.

        But it is for my case in Singapore.

        After all, we are an Asian society even though we do speak English like your country.
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  • Profile picture of the author Jeff Schuman
    I have bought a lot of courses and subscribed to a lot of ezines since 2002. Many of them helped me in my early years. However, in the IM niche it seems there are a lot of people who try to become gurus before they are one, or when they will never be one. It reminds me that those who can DO and those that can't Teach. Better to become your own guru, and just focus on making money, and not following people who tell you how to do it.
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    • Profile picture of the author JMSD
      Originally Posted by Jeff Schuman View Post

      However, in the IM niche it seems there are a lot of people who try to become gurus before they are one, or when they will never be one. It reminds me that those who can DO and those that can't Teach. Better to become your own guru, and just focus on making money, and not following people who tell you how to do it.
      We all need to learn from someone, if new to a subject - IM or any other topic.
      The above adage is not always true.

      Those in IM who DO, make a difference to just one person - themselves (or at best, to those closest to them)

      Those who teach what they know, make a positive difference to many.

      And those who can do AND really know how to share their expertise, in a way that others can understand and implement, are truly gifted.

      Jim Edwards and Bill Myers are just two names that top my list of true 'gurus' that not only can do but also can teach and in so doing transform many lives.

      Jamie
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  • Originally Posted by amuro View Post

    When I first got to do internet marketing, I got to know guys like Ewen Chia, Eben Pagan, Mike Filsaime, Stephen Pierce, Anik Singal etc.

    They are the guys who went on stage, sharing with people their failure and success stories before offering them their coaching programs.

    They are what I defined as product creation and aftraction marketing gurus.

    I defined as underground super affiliates. [/SIZE][/FONT]

    [FONT=Philosopher] They are not the types who frequently like to go on stage, proclaiming how good they are before offering their programs.
    These people started off as super affiliates, before they created their information products & went on stage promoting their big ticket coaching programs.

    I have personally invested my own money in buying their products & applied what I have learned from them and made money. Because they made thousands of $ first as super affiliates before creating their own products teaching their affiliate marketing methods. Ewen chia became famous for being on top of the leader boards for top selling affiliate contests. & created his first product teaching people how to make money online with affiliate marketing.

    Eben Pagan made his millions online in the dating & relationships niche with his pen name "David DeAngelo" & product called double your dating.

    Only after his success with that product did he create an information product teaching others how to create info products to sell online.

    Invest in their products first and apply the strategies they teach before you knock them and accuse them of going on stage first to sell products. They paved the way for the Internet marketers of today.

    But to everyone his own I suppose. If you too lazy to put in the work to apply their make money online strategies. Then their information products are not meant for you.
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    • Profile picture of the author amuro
      Originally Posted by Internet Trillionaire View Post

      These people started off as super affiliates, before they created their information products & went on stage promoting their big ticket coaching programs.

      I have personally invested my own money in buying their products & applied what I have learned from them and made money.

      Because they made thousands of $ first as super affiliates before creating their own products teaching their affiliate marketing methods.

      Ewen Chia became famous for being on top of the leader boards for top selling affiliate contests and created his first product teaching people how to make money online with affiliate marketing.

      Eben Pagan made his millions online in the dating & relationships niche with his pen name "David DeAngelo" & product called double your dating.

      Only after his success with that product did he create an information product teaching others how to create info products to sell online.

      Invest in their products first and apply the strategies they teach before you knock them and accuse them of going on stage first to sell products. They paved the way for the Internet marketers of today.

      But to everyone his own I suppose. If you too lazy to put in the work to apply their make money online strategies. Then their information products are not meant for you.


      I still prefer marketers like Andrew Hansen, Adam Short and Mark Ling though I do wondered how did Mark manage to get along with 2 different groups of internet marketers.

      Compared to others, their systems are much easier for me to understand and follow.

      When Eben Pagan says Google Keyword tool is an awesome tool in one of his webinars, I knew straightaway he is not an SEO expert.

      Because marketers who are really SEO experts like Andrew or even Alex Becker will NOT say that.

      But I still like Eben Pagan because of the way he presented and marketed. Before launching his product officially, he always made and invited his subscribers and customers to 3 video previews like movie trailers.

      Andrew on the other hand is simply - what can I say - out of IM world when it comes to doing market and keyword research.

      He don't just promote blindly.

      Or confined himself to Amazon, Clickbank and Ebay we all know affiliate networks.

      Neither does he rely solely on keyword data.

      He goes beyond 4-5 levels deep into finding out what people actually want or need and difffentiating between buyers and those just looking for free info.

      Same goes for finding affiliate networks.

      Some of them are completely unknown to internet marketers like you and me but are used by BIG companies to promote their stuff which you could have bought some.

      Like Nike and Adidas.

      PS My compatriot Ewen used to be popular. But since 2011, he sorted of semi-retired from IM product launches and moved into seminar and live business workshop events and presentation around the world.

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  • Profile picture of the author art72
    While I have a great respect for those who have carved out a living, and are often deemed as Guru's like Pagan, Kern, Patel, Deiss, etc...

    I can say that though I've yet utilize a great deal of the info I've collected from varius resources, some of whom either have responded to this thread, or others that I've read... As there are plenty of folks here who have influenced, inspired, and impressed upon me as to "how business should be conducted".

    Thus, I believe we are all responsible for, and need to stand accountable for the influences, impressions, and the inspiration & encouragement we receive from "outside influences". Guru or in general makes little difference, less we use the knowledge we've acquired through action and effort.

    I've been impressed with and often intimidated by some of those who've emassed a fortune in this arena.

    I also agree with the person above who mentioned not having success until attending events, meeting people face-to-face, and believe; I need that interaction to make this all feel real and align my ideas with the right people or team.

    Clearly, the majority of names dropped on this thread may have had early beginnings, and started small or even with little-to-nothing, but today... Most these guys/gals have teams, VA's, money to outsource, and ultimately behind many if the names is both a business, a tribe of followers, an army of affiliates, and friendships, jv's, and reciprocation going on to keep them on top.

    Those here who goeth alone, the reality is often obscurred by the desire to believe; establishing what Eben, Frank, Ryan, and several others have done takes a "team effort" and such results are definitely not typically achieved alone by an individual.

    I'd hoped to make my first live event Marketing Mayhem in Orlando this week, as I live 100miles south of there... And yet unforeseen circumstances have dismissed that goal. It's a shame cause I wanted to meet E.Brian Rose, he contributed a lot to this forum back when.

    Either way, I rarely buy training, or products unless it's 'white label' or something tool related, like YouZign for design, etc...

    But, I read a ton of emails from some of the best just to keep abreast of their latest techniques, writings, etc.
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