I don't understand why the plethora of marketers who have sand in their butt cracks over opting in

33 replies
I really don't get it.

They're in an industry, supposedly working to develop a business and become successful. One of the most acknowledged techniques to doing this is building a list.

They're building a list to be able to capitalize on the patterns of success.

Right?

And they get on here and post, ranting and raving about having to opt in to another marketer's list to get something free, or having to opt in to get a download link.

I just don't understand it, and I am getting pretty annoyed at the tear in the beer crying - ON A MARKETING FORUM THAT DISCUSSES MARKETING TECHNIQUES AT LENGTH... ESPECIALLY AUTORESPONDERS AND OPTING IN.

Go find some new mother forum or 4x4 offroading website to cry about it.
#butt #cracks #marketers #opting #plethora #sand #understand
  • Profile picture of the author jasonl70
    it reminds me of someone who get's a book on 'sleight of hand' tricks, and then is somewhere where some guy is performing tricks - and instead of just enjoying the show and observing how he does his thing, they feel tricked and ripped off, heckle, etc.
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    • Profile picture of the author rhj12345
      Yes, marketers with butt crack sand should go away!
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  • Profile picture of the author michael_nguyen
    or like buying a wso and never taking action and then buying another, whats the point ?
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    • Profile picture of the author Didier Faucher
      Originally Posted by michael_nguyen View Post

      or like buying a wso and never taking action and then buying another, whats the point ?
      Dreaming of success.

      They have dreams and hopes. Not bad, I think.


      Didier
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      • Profile picture of the author JamesFrancisIM
        Originally Posted by Didier Faucher View Post

        Dreaming of success.

        They have dreams and hopes. Not bad, I think.


        Didier
        There's a difference in dreaming and taking action to realize that dream.

        - James.
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        • Profile picture of the author Frank Donovan
          Hi Michael

          Here's what I don't get.

          For many successful and wannabe marketers, this forum is packed with members and lurkers who constitute their prime target market i.e. potential customers and clients.

          Yet when there's a number of posts ranting or even just expressing concern about a standard industry practice, the tendency is to become defensive and often dismissive about those concerns.

          I'm not talking about the professional whiners or the "entitlement mindset" crowd, but where there's a pattern of complaint (which presumably prompted your OP) surely the smart reaction would be to examine if there's any way your own practices could be improved.

          After all, here's your target market offering you some free feedback and research.

          I'm not sure what specific threads you were referring to, but I read one earlier today which concerned a forced opt-in in order to obtain an already paid-for product. This grew into an interesting debate about transparency in the sales process and by the end I had the impression that one or two contributors were having second thoughts about their initial knee-jerk responses. Isn't that a good thing?

          Whatever. At least you now have a chance to get indexed in Google for the phrase "butt cracks" next to your name.



          Frank
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        • Profile picture of the author Didier Faucher
          Originally Posted by JamesFrancisIM View Post

          There's a difference in dreaming and taking action to realize that dream.
          Really?

          dream -> action or not
          no dream -> nothing, 100% of the time


          Didier
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  • Profile picture of the author The IM Prodigy
    I don't really get it either. A person can always just unsubscribe. I've unsubscribed from a hundred different lists. It is no big deal.
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  • Profile picture of the author thunderbird
    It is a weird trait of human nature. It is just there and it ain't gonna change. I wouldn't get worked up over it any more than getting worked-up over most people having two eyes and a nose.
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    • Profile picture of the author Alexa Smith
      Banned
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      • Profile picture of the author Bryan Zimmerman
        One reason people may use an optin instead of a download link that I haven't seen talked about yet is due to theft. I can think of three forum's off the top of my head right now that I've probably seen countless WSO's that have been run here's download link being given away for free (including my own right now actually), as well as high end products like Zero Friction Marketing's whole program including the upsells.

        Yes, you can still get people share the email, but not to the volume of having a free for all on a download link in a forum.

        With an email, it's a lot more simple to just change the name on the optin page (my opinion anyway cause I'm a technical idiot) than it is to start continously moving around download links.

        I always put right on the optin page in big letters "FOR DELIVERY PURPOSES ONLY PLEASE UNSUBSCRIBE AS SOON AS YOU GET IT IF YOU WANT" as the reason for the optin.

        Just my 2 cents
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  • Profile picture of the author timpears
    Once you have paid for it, you should be entitled to get the product. Unless the sales letter states that you will have to sign on to the list to get it, the price they ask for was paid and you should be able to get it. Once I pay the cost as for in the sales letter, telling me that I have to sign on to your list is no different than telling me that I have to pay an additional dollar or more. It is an additional cost. And some people just resent that, and I understand that very well. And I am sorry that you can't understand that.
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    Tim Pears

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  • Profile picture of the author John Romaine
    I dont see what the big problem is. I quite like having sand in my butt crack. But thats just me.
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  • Profile picture of the author JWB
    I actually opt in with new lists every day...you can
    get a ton of good information that way...

    on the other hand, I opt out of lists everyday as well...
    when I feel they are no longer useful.
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  • Profile picture of the author girlshrink
    I think it's all in the asking. If I feel like you are upfront in asking for my info -- then I have no problem. Also, I usually do not opt in for freebies with a marketer whose info I am not interested in for the long haul anyway OR to at least look at their stuff for ideas for my own business.
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  • Profile picture of the author DougBarger
    My product registration page is the highest opt in rate I've ever achieved (100%).

    What's that sound?

    "The Penny Drops."
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  • Profile picture of the author Zeus66
    And they get on here and post, ranting and raving about having to opt in to another marketer's list to get something free, or having to opt in to get a download link.
    Do you think you could be perhaps a bit more honest in your characterization of what people are really complaining about? I think we both know what you just wrote left out a very crucial component. For the sake of those not familiar with the other thread that this OP is obviously referring to, the major part he left out is that the opting in was required by the seller only after the payment was made by the buyer. No disclosure of this was made on the sales page. So the buyer (me in this case) paid under the terms mentioned on the sales page (that did not include anything about list subscribing), and was then required to confirm after opting in to the seller's list in order to receive the product for which I'd paid. I paid and was not granted access to the product until after I'd confirmed the opt-in. This is known as forced opt-in, and it's amazing to me that the OP failed to include this absolutely critical difference. Very telling, isn't it?

    This is NOT about cases where the seller only makes opting in to his/her list OPTIONAL.

    It's a shame I had to do for the OP here what he should have been honest enough to point out himself. If we're going to debate something, can we all agree to do so honestly? I'd hate to see this forum degenerate into people cherry-picking only the aspects of the other side that help them score points. It's disingenuous and serves no purpose.

    We're all marketers, but all marketing practices are not equal in terms of how ethical they are.

    John
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  • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
    What I dont get is why you felt the need to start a rant opposite the other rant.

    You could have easily put your thoughts in the other thread.

    Oh wait... you did.

    So why start a new? Did you not scream loud enough in the other one to be noticed?
    Go find some new mother forum or 4x4 offroading website to cry about it.
    Right back at you.

    edit: Yes I know you didnt cry or scream in the other and I see your point. However, people should discuss practices. Conversations like the other one, made me change some of my practices - for the better.
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  • Profile picture of the author Andyhenry
    Surely moaning about people moaning is just as irrelevant?
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    nothing to see here.

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  • Profile picture of the author Jay Jennings
    You ever buy something in one of those big chain stores and they want to check your receipt and bag as you leave the store?

    Do you let them?

    I don't, because as soon as I pay for the product it's mine. And they don't have the right to make me jump through hoops to get it.

    I think that's the same way people feel about those opt-in forms -- I have already purchased the product and now someone wants to put another roadblock in my way before I can get what is legally mine.

    Of course we understand building a list -- that's a fundamental of marketing online. But there are ways to do that without pissing off your customers. And while YOU may not care about the process, it's obvious others do, so why not build your list in a way that doesn't alienate some of the people who just gave you money?

    Jay Jennings
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    • Profile picture of the author GarrieWilson
      Originally Posted by Jay Jennings View Post

      You ever buy something in one of those big chain stores and they want to check your receipt and bag as you leave the store?

      Do you let them?

      I don't, because as soon as I pay for the product it's mine. And they don't have the right to make me jump through hoops to get it.
      I dont either. I also dont stop if the door alarm goes off. (My wheelchair sets them off often when I leave but never when I enter. I cant figure out why.)
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    • Profile picture of the author timpears
      Originally Posted by Jay Jennings View Post

      You ever buy something in one of those big chain stores and they want to check your receipt and bag as you leave the store?

      Do you let them?

      I don't, because as soon as I pay for the product it's mine. And they don't have the right to make me jump through hoops to get it.

      I think that's the same way people feel about those opt-in forms -- I have already purchased the product and now someone wants to put another roadblock in my way before I can get what is legally mine.

      Of course we understand building a list -- that's a fundamental of marketing online. But there are ways to do that without pissing off your customers. And while YOU may not care about the process, it's obvious others do, so why not build your list in a way that doesn't alienate some of the people who just gave you money?

      Jay Jennings
      You make way too much sense Jay.

      I also used to not let them check my purchase at that store, and got in a little bit of trouble with them, and my wife. They just couldn't see why I was offended because they made me feel like I was being accused of stealing. They would try to convince me that they were just checking to make sure the checker didn't make a mistake and charge me for something I didn't get. Yea, right. But at the end of it, my wife wins out and I usually do as I am told. But I still resent it.
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      Tim Pears

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  • Profile picture of the author LB
    Funny no one ever complains about all those sellers that AUTOMATICALLY add you to a list by parsing the data from Paypal without even asking your permission.

    There's plenty of warriors who use scripts like DLguard to do this. Isn't it worse to be added to a list without even knowing it's happening? Many WSOs do this.
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  • Profile picture of the author Bev Clement
    It depends on how it is done.

    When a marketer on their thank you page says, "You will not get this product until you sign up" then there is something wrong. Have an opt in box on your thank you page, and let people chose. In my experience over 90% will sign up.

    It is also intersting to see how many say you can't have the product until you sign up, but then deliever the product before you confirm.

    I will normally opt in but don't tell me I can't have what I have paid for until I do.

    That is what many people object to, not getting what they paid for.
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  • Profile picture of the author Scott Ames
    Checking my butt crack now.
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    • Profile picture of the author kennethtang
      Originally Posted by Scott Ames View Post

      Checking my butt crack now.
      ROFL! Check mine, too?
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      • Profile picture of the author Kay King
        kenneth - Mirrors have a purpose:rolleyes:

        Ok - I did have some sand there myself - but it's from sitting on the beach earlier with the dog. Honest!

        I don't argue with store employees who want to check my purchases. It doesn't improve my day if I make their job harder by being a grouch.

        Forcing an opt in is a bully tactic to me - not a marketing method. I don't complain to the marketer - I use a different name for those signups and when an email comes to that name I opt out. Pretty simple, really. And yet, like Bev, if offered the choice I will usually opt in.

        That said - it's up to each marketer build his list as he chooses.

        kay
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        • Profile picture of the author Sandor Verebi
          Originally Posted by Kay King View Post

          ...That said - it's up to each marketer build his list as he chooses.

          kay
          Kay, I agree.

          We are all different and our interpretation about list building may also be different.

          Everybody who wants to run a business venture needs to know, what he does and how he operates. And has to face with the consequences, of course.

          Regards,

          Sandor
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  • Profile picture of the author Black Hat Cat
    Banned
    Originally Posted by MichaelHiles View Post

    I really don't get it.

    They're in an industry, supposedly working to develop a business and become successful. One of the most acknowledged techniques to doing this is building a list.

    They're building a list to be able to capitalize on the patterns of success.

    Right?

    And they get on here and post, ranting and raving about having to opt in to another marketer's list to get something free, or having to opt in to get a download link.

    I just don't understand it, and I am getting pretty annoyed at the tear in the beer crying - ON A MARKETING FORUM THAT DISCUSSES MARKETING TECHNIQUES AT LENGTH... ESPECIALLY AUTORESPONDERS AND OPTING IN.

    Go find some new mother forum or 4x4 offroading website to cry about it.
    Supposedly is the key word here. If whining were a business strategy, there would be some multi-billionaires here.
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  • Profile picture of the author MichaelHiles
    Okay, so I spent way too many hours reading the "Picturesque Speech" column in my granny's Reader's Digest collection.
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  • Profile picture of the author Aronya
    Where do I go to complain about the butt-crack around my sand?
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  • Profile picture of the author TPFLegionaire
    If you squint very hard...don't look at her look at me...I am on the beach with sands in my butt.

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